01-Oct-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #0 
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 0

Today's Topics:
			Vandenberg Launch Viewing
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 24 Sep 84 15:59:43-PDT (Mon)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: hplabs!intelca!qantel!dual!zehntel!jackh @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Vandenberg Launch Viewing

For those of you who don't belong to NSI (National Space Institute)
the current (September) issue of "Space World" contains a four page
article on the Vandenberg Facility, its current state of development,
tentative completion date, first operation date (i.e. first launch), etc.

The article essentially confirms and expands on what has already been
posted on the net, plus it has a lot of pictures (surprising, considering
the classified nature of most of the operations there). 
The article also has a sidebar on "official" viewing positions.

The launch site is indeed SLC-6 (Space Launch Complex 6, pronounced 
"slick six") which was the old MOL progam launch pad.

As contractor to the Air Force in the late '70s I got a tour of Vandenberg
to see our vehicle on the pad (we launched from SLC-4E for those of you
who know). Our tour guide was able, on my request, to take us up to, but
not through, the gate of SLC-6. The service structure had just been rolled
back (for the first time since the '60s) exposing the concrete launch
tower in preparation for demolition.

It was saddening to think that all of those thousands of yards of concrete,
so carefully formed and looking brand new (having been protected by the
service structure), had to come down without ever having had the chance to
do their job!

                                   -- Jack Hagerty, Zehntel Inc.
                                      ...!ihnp4!zehntel!jackh

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

02-Oct-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #1 
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 1

Today's Topics:
		    Looking for INFO on Shuttle Orbit
			      PghL5 Meeting
			   Empty Salyut Station
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 28 Sep 84 15:20:03-PDT (Fri)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: hplabs!amd!mikeh @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Looking for INFO on Shuttle Orbit

Iam looking for information concerning the orbit the Shuttle
will be in after its launch in Oct. I would like to be able to
predict if and when the Shuttle will be visible over Northern
California at night. The type of information I need is, the type
of orbit, Inclination of orbit and the orbital period.

Thanks.

 Mike Haley (408) 982-6555
 UUCPnet: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra,intelca}!amd!mikeh
 ARPAnet: amd!mikeh@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: 1 Oct 84 13:23:29 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: PghL5 Meeting
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

Marge Boberschmdit of AT&T will discuss the changes in AT&T, satellite
communications, some details of the Telestar series and the affects of these
on life today and in the future.

	Date:	Wednesday, 3-Oct-84
	Time:	19:30 (room open)
		20:00 (meeting begins)
	Place:	PH126B

We will also be discussing some of the details of the upcoming L5 Regional
Space Development Conference at the Pittsburgh Hilton, Oct 26-28. If you
haven't registered yet, do it soon!!! For more info, send mail to:

			amon@cmu-ri-fas.arpa

I will be posting a full schedule of events within the next week, but as a
sample, the speakers include Mr. Terry Rockwell (Astrotech Corp), Hon Doug
Walgren (Chairman House Science, Research and Technology Subcommittee), Dr.
Charles Sheffield (former president of the American Astronautical Society),
Dr. Philip Chapman (President of the L5 Society, Arthur D. Little Corp,
ex-astronaut),  Jim Muncy (Space Consultant to Dr. George Keyworth in the
White House Science office), a banquet, a concert, film room, exhibits and
loads of interesting people.

------------------------------

Date: 1 Oct 1984 13:38:58EPDT
From: glenn at ll-vlsi
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Empty Salyut Station

The Russians have announced that their cosmonauts are preparing the Salyut
Space Station to operate in an unmanned automatic mode after they leave it
in a few days.  They are also beginning to load their Soyuz T-11 spacecraft
for the return flight.

There had been much speculation that the Soviets would try a crew switch on
this mission to keep the Salyut continuously occupied.  However in a recent
interview with Roald Sagdeev, the director of the Space Research Institute
in Moscow, for Sky and Telescope magazine he was asked if the about indications
he gave that the Salyut would be run in an automatic mode with experiments
on board it.  He said point blank that this Salyut would not be permently
manned because the design was too old.  That would wait until their new
station was put up in the near future.  The behaviour of this mission agrees
with his statements.

One other point.  Leonard David of the Nation Space Institute has pointed
out that on Sept 25 the Russians had achieved 10 man-years of human activity
in space (from Space Calendar, Sept 24 '84 issue).  The US has less than half
that and is falling further behind, even with the current large number of
people orbited in a shuttle.

                             Glenn Chapman

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

03-Oct-84  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #2 
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 2

Today's Topics:
			      Halley's Comet
	    Walter Mondale's current view of the space program
				 Mondale
				 toilets
			Soviet Salyut Mission Ends
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Oct 84 10:48:14 EDT
From: Dick Koolish <koolish@bbn-cd.arpa>
Subject: Halley's Comet
To: space@mit-mc.arpa

Japanese amateur Tsutomo Seki is reported to have photographed
Halley's comet, becoming the first amateur astronomer to do so.
The comet is magnitude 20.5 located at RA 6h 46m, DEC +13.0.
Seki is a well known comet hunter, having discovered six comets.

------------------------------

Date: 2 October 1984 02:46-EDT
From: Robert E. Bruccoleri <BRUC @ MIT-MC>
Subject: Walter Mondale's current view of the space program

The following appeared in the September/October 1984 issue of the Campaign
for Space Political Action Committee:

"According to an article in the September issue of Discover magazine,
Mondale is opposed to the space station program. And as we go to press,
Mondale has announced his federal deficit reduction plan, which if
enacted, would preclude any new starts for NASA during A [sic] Mondale
Administration."

------------------------------

Date: 2 Oct 84 13:00:40 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Mondale
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

A friend of mine who worked on the Glenn campaign just gave me a recent
Mondale quote that let's us all know exactly where he stands. He is reputed
to have admitted that "Would cut the Space Station and Fifth Orbiter and put
the money into social programs." Sandy thinks this might be enough to make
her an EX-Democrat and may write him a letter telling him so. If this man
PLANNED to gain the undying hatred of every member of L5 and other
space organizations he really couldn't do a much better job of it!

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8410021852.AA14127@YALE-BULLDOG.YALE.ARPA>
Date:    Tue, 2 Oct 84 14:36:53 EDT
From: Andrea Pappas <Pappas@YALE.ARPA>
Subject: toilets
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

Co Evoulution Quarterly , in 1982, (i think) had an issue devoted to space
and toilets were covered.  (come to think of it it might have been the
space colonies issue, about 1980)  also some discussion of why we unladylike
types aren't allowed in space ect.  
(toilet article comes with diagrams and a funny picture)

------------------------------

Date: 2 Oct 1984 15:29:24EPDT
From: glenn at ll-vlsi
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Soviet Salyut Mission Ends

The Russians announced at 8:00 am EDT Oct 2 that the Soyuz T-11 capsule had
landed safely with the three cosmonauts from the Salyut spacestation.
The total flight time was 237 days on board the station, 26 days longer than
the previous record of 211 days.

One other interesting first was achieved in this flight I think.  The wife of
one of the Cosmonauts (I think it was Kazin) had a baby while he was in orbit.
Politically that may be not important but I think it is a milestone for mankind.
For centuries that has happened to seamen, and now mankind is spending enough
time in space that it happens to spacetravelers.  Maybe in the not too distant
future the first child will be born off this planet.  Let us hope the Soviets
are not the only ones to celebrate that future event.

                                 Glenn Chapman

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

04-Oct-84  0402	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #3 
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 3

Today's Topics:
			Jupiter-Saturn conjunction
		       Challenger orbital elements
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Oct 84  8:57:15 EDT
From: Dick Koolish <koolish@bbn-cd.arpa>
Subject: Jupiter-Saturn conjunction
To: space@mit-mc.arpa

The next Jupiter-Saturn conjunction will be at 10h (UT) on May 31, 2000.
The planets will be 1 degree 11 minutes apart in declanation and will be
17 degrees west of the sun in the morning sky.  This information comes from
"Astronomical Tables of the Sun, Moon and Planets" by Jean Meeus.

------------------------------

Date: 28 Sep 84 17:18:34-PDT (Fri)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: ihnp4!mhuxj!ulysses!allegra!mouton!karn @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Challenger orbital elements

Here is a predicted element set for orbit 23 of the upcoming Challenger
mission. Note, however, that it was based on an October 1 launch and needs
to have its RA (right ascension) of the ascending node adjusted for the
actual launch time, which I believe is currently scheduled for October 4.

Epoch time:      84276.85138889
   Tue Oct  2 20:26:00.0   1984 UTC
Inclination:       57.2007 deg
RA of node:        68.7538 deg
Eccentricity:    0.0010544
Arg of perigee:   346.2766 deg
Mean anomaly:      14.1415 deg
Mean motion:   15.97849766 rev/day
Decay rate:          0.046 rev/day^2 [incredibly high! -- prk]
Epoch rev:              23
Semi major axis:  6658.131 km
Anom period:     90.121113 min
Apogee:            287.857 km
Perigee:           273.816 km
Ref perigee:      2466.84893045
   Tue Oct  2 20:22:27.590 1984 UTC

The high inclination of this mission will make the orbiter visible at much
higher latitudes than most shuttle missions. It will also make it possible
for more amateurs to receive the 435 mhz transmissions of a Getaway Special
experiment that will be mounted in the cargo bay.  Tracking the shuttle,
however, has always proven to be extremely difficult due to the unpredictable
drag effects of the low orbit and the constant perturbations of maneuvering
rockets. As we found with STS-9, predictions made from element sets which
were only a day old could be off by minutes.

Phil Karn

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

05-Oct-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #4 
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 4

Today's Topics:
		     Re: Challenger orbital elements
			   Shuttle Radar Study
			 Re: Women space walkers
			   Passengers in Space
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 84 17:42:00-PDT (Sun)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: decvax!mcnc!akgua!sol1!s170 @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Re: Challenger orbital elements

In reference to the orbital element state-vector, does someone have an
easily transportable algorithm (or program, even) that will give longitude/
latitude predictions, visibility/altazimuth, etc?  I know I'm asking a lot,
but it sure would be neat.  I know the ham elements out there must have some
such thing, but I haven't subscribed to QST in some time, now.  Anybody seen
anything like it?  I have a PC-compatible, Turbo Pascal, and even (choke, gag!)
MS Basic.
   Thanx for listening (reading?).
         Russ Schnapp (...akgua!sol1!s170)

------------------------------

Date: 4 Oct 84  2126 PDT
From: Ron Goldman <ARG@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: Shuttle Radar Study
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

a208  1113  03 Oct 84
AM-Shuttle Radar, Bjt,0655
Space Shuttle Radar To Seek Lost Cities, Oil Spills, Icebergs
By LEE SIEGEL
AP Science Writer
    PASADENA, Calif. (AP) - When the shuttle Challenger soars into space
Friday it will carry a radar camera that scientists hope will detect
ancient lost cities, icebergs, oil spills and forests damaged by acid
rain.
    ''It's very important because it's going to help us understand our
environment and the processes shaping our environment,'' said Charles
Elachi, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory physicist heading the 13-nation
project for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.
    ''. . . This experiment is part of a long-term project to assess how
well we can use imaging (picture-making) radar from satellites to
observe processes on land and the dynamics of the ocean surface.''
    Known as Shuttle Imaging Radar-B, or SIR-B, the device's
35-by-7-foot antenna will be aimed at Earth from Challenger's open
cargo bay for 50 hours during the eight-day shuttle flight. The
antenna will beam radar microwaves at the planet's surface, record
the echoes and relay them via satellite to Earth.
    Because the radar will scan 18 million square miles - about a fourth
of the planet's landmass and 5 percent of its total surface,
including oceans - it will take two years to convert all the data
into black-and-white pictures, Elachi said.
    SIR-B is a descendant of the Seasat satellite, launched in 1978, and
SIR-A, which flew aboard a shuttle in November 1981. Seasat was
designed to map ocean currents, tides, temperatures and wave heights,
but surprised scientists by revealing hidden features on land. SIR-A
revealed ancient, dry riverbeds buried beneath the sands of the
eastern Sahara in Egypt and Sudan.
    The U.S. Geological Survey will use SIR-B to map details of these
ancient rivers ''and identify potential sites of prehistoric human
habitation'' in the eastern Sahara, said Jet Propulsion Laboratory
spokeswoman Mary Beth Murrill.
    USGS researchers also will seek evidence of lost cities in the
foothills of the Peruvian Andes. A Swedish scientist hopes to
discover Nordic ruins from the Middle Ages on Oland Island in the
Baltic Sea, while a Los Angeles documentary filmmaker wants to
uncover traces of the 2,000-year-old lost city of Ubar in the Persian
Gulf state of Oman.
    Radar penetrates clouds, so a Canadian scientist will scan the ocean
off Labrador to determine if the radar can help locate and track
icebergs, which pose a hazard to oil drilling in the area, Ms.
Murrill said.
    Japanese and West German scientists will simulate oil spills by
dumping a non-polluting, rapidly evaporating alcohol in the Pacific
Ocean and North Sea while SIR-B orbits overhead to see if the radar
can detect man-made pollution.
    Ocean oil spills reduce the ''roughness'' of the sea surface, so
they appear as dark areas on radar images.
    Rain forests in Bangladesh are the target of a study by Marc Imhoff,
a NASA researcher in Maryland. He wants to know if radar will help
him locate areas of standing water - which serve as mosquito breeding
grounds - hidden beneath the forest canopy.
    ''If successful,'' Ms. Murrill said, ''the result of Imhoff's
investigation could be used to develop improved techniques for
malaria control and eradication in tropical areas.''
    A West German scientist plans to determine if variations in radar
images of evergreen forests in Germany can be used to show which
areas have been damaged by acid rain.
    Other SIR-B experiments include using radar images to evaluate the
earthquake potential of faults, locate groundwater supplies, monitor
worldwide rainfall, determine how well crops are growing, create
topographic maps, analyze Hawaii's lava flows, study ocean waves that
threaten shipping, and study deserts in California, China and
Australia.
    The radar's findings also may be useful in exploring other planets,
particularly Venus, the target of the Venus Radar Mapper to be
launched in 1988. For example, a Brown University scientist will use
SIR-B's images to study meteor craters in Canada and develop criteria
for recognizing such craters on Venus.
    

------------------------------

Date: 2 Oct 84 12:29:30-PDT (Tue)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: hplabs!ames!al @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Re: Women space walkers

Whatever the Wall Street Journal may say, the next STS flight features a
woman space walker in the schedule.

------------------------------

Date: 2 Oct 84 20:43:38-PDT (Tue)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: decvax!cca!ima!haddock!jimc @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Passengers in Space

NASA has recently announced that a passenger will be flying on the
shuttle some time in the period from fall '85 to spring '86.
According to this month's LIFE magazine, this passenger will be a teacher
and will not be chosen from anyone famous.  In the future, the
passengers will be chosen from a broader and broader set of categories.

LIFE's write-up is quite good -- I recommend it.


					Jim Campbell
					INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
					Boston Technical Office

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

06-Oct-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #5 
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 5

Today's Topics:
			   Women Space Walkers
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 1984 18:09:03EPDT
From: glenn at ll-vlsi
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Women Space Walkers

While it may not have been clear from my note on Sept 28 Space Digest the
Wall Street Journal article made it very clear that NASA intended to have
some women spacewalkers.  However it was applying restrictions to them that
it did not to the men.  When 63% of the women astronauts cannot wear a suit
because NASA did not buy a size range which fit them, while 100% of the men
could do EVA's that is not very fair.  It certainly prejudges the decision
of who could do the best job on an EVA when NASA knows it would have to buy
a space suit if it choose one of those suitless women.  Oh yes the current
flight will have Kathleen Sullivan do a walk in space.  On the other hand
there are 8 flights over the next 15 months which have women on board, with
three EVA's scheduled during them.  In none of those missions is a women doing
work out in space.  Beyond that I have not seen the mission assignments.
It certainly does not seem that NASA wants to appear to be unbiased.  

                                Glenn Chapman

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

07-Oct-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #6 
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 6

Today's Topics:
			    Re: Halley's Comet
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 84 13:12:39-PDT (Fri)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: hplabs!nsc!voder!gino @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Re: Halley's Comet

I would like to take this opportunity to bring up, as I do every
75 or 76 years, that the name Halley rhymes with alley; the first
syllable is NOT hail.
Obsessively compulsively yours,
-- 
Gene E. Bloch (...!nsc!voder!gino)

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

08-Oct-84  0406	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #7 
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 7

Today's Topics:
			Off to see the wizzard(s)
		   Tuto the Two Toed Space Sloth Robot
			     Countdown begins
			 Re: Passengers in Space
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #6 
				 Re: none
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 84 9:04:15-PDT (Fri)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: 
      hplabs!hpda!fortune!amd!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-samuri!bluejay @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Off to see the wizzard(s)

[Cleared as filed.]

I'm planning a trip to see the Kennedy Space Center in Florida
sometime in November. 

Does anybody have any advice, tips, etc.. on where to fly (small,
single_engine plane) into, stay, how to get around, things to see,
things _not_ to see, etc. ? 

Thanks in advance for any information.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From the flapping feathers of       | The above text does not in any
    ...decwrl!rhea!raven1!Bluejay   | way represent the views, thoughts,
or  ...decwrl!rhea!samuri!Bluejay   | or anything else of any person,
    or on the DEC Enet,             | institution, organization,
          Raven1::Bluejay           | company, or sentient being,
          Samuri::Bluejay           | other than [perhaps] myself.

"We can be free. We can learn to fly!"

------------------------------

Date: 2 Oct 84 14:54:16-PDT (Tue)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: 
      hplabs!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!ariel!hou5f!hou5e!hou5d!hou5a!trc @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Tuto the Two Toed Space Sloth Robot

The Two-toed Space Sloth

It seems possible to do "space construction on a budget", by use of a 
tele-operated robot with minimal local intelligence.  The following is 
an example of a special class of robot, used mainly for working on space 
commercial/industrial packages.

The two-toed space sloth gets its name from its two "gripper toes".
Rather than mounting these on a complex "leg", they would simply be
tethered to the robot by cables that could be reeled in or out.
These toes would be designed to grip special "toe-holds", but should
be able to grip to edges of materials as well - simply to provide
an emergency capability.  They might be simple clips, or be a servo-
actuated.  

To move over a package, the robot would normally grab one toe with its 
arm-hand, attach the toe to a toe hold, push off a bit, then reel in the 
toe while reeling out its other toe.  Reeling in the toe and locking it 
down provides a secure base for leverage.  The arm could be used to help 
guide the movement.  [I am assuming here that the arm(s) would be relatively 
weak, though a hand (or a hand attachment) might be quite strong.  Arms are 
used mainly for positioning stuff, and movement in space can be done with 
quite little strength.]

For propulsion between packages, Tuto (Two-toe) would use "tether guidance -
hop or pull"  Essentially, the robot pushes off, then controls its flight 
direction and stops using the cables.  The cables might also be used as a 
control signal path, for telling the robot what to do, and for sending back 
the robot's data, such as slow scan TV from its "eye".  This "jump unit" 
might be a separate segment from the rest, so that it doesnt encumber the 
robot while it works.  It would have a single toe to grab the package and 
hold on, while the robot steps off (keeping one toe on a toe hold on the 
jump unit, of course) onto the package.  The main direction of flight would 
be set by aiming a launching platform before jumping.  Then in-flight 
adjustments could be made by having three or four cables, and letting 
several reel out slower than the others.  This would be fairly easy to 
control, since there would have to be motors to provide momentum to the 
cable as it is reeled out.

Packages could simply be "dumped" with low relative velocity into orbit 
near the robot's base.  The twotoe would jump out, and match the package's 
velocity more precisely by pulling on its cable, or by transferring velocity 
by bumping into it.  For larger increments in velocity, it might toss off 
a mass that is also tethered to the central unit.  Probably this would be 
a routine task, as packages slowly drift apart.  Or, they might each have 
a cable to attach to the central station.  

The point of all this jumping, tossing, and pulling, is that it can be 
done mechanically, using electric power, which should be abundant, and 
without any non-reusable rocket fuels.  The reason for using "toes, tethers 
and reels" is to avoid having many complex arms or legs, as well as to
avoid accidentally "falling off".  The reason for teleoperation is simply
to avoid having to spend time developing "AI" when there is a plentiful 
source of cheap or *volunteer* "I" on earth, and to avoid the terrific 
expense of moving that "I" into space and taking care of it while there.  
Robots can live on just electricity - humans cant.  Plus, (and here is
where the "sloth" part comes in), a Tuto can get by on a relative trickle
of electricity that is stored up over time - allowing smaller solar panels.
It would simply sit idle for long periods of time, soaking up solar power.
Meanwhile, on earth, its operators could plan its next move.

A space station built along these lines would look like a collection of
shuttle pallet shaped blocks in a spider's web.  At the central block
would be the robot communications relay, storage, the jump reels, etc.  
I guess that designing, building, and lofting such a twotoe spacloth and 
base would only cost a couple tens of millions for the first, and maybe 
under a million for the second - depending on how well the designers keep 
to a goal of low cost for the system.  It would only take up a small part 
of a shuttle payload.

By the way - for those of you who are "human chauvinists", and want to
put Men out there instead of robots - consider this:  Are you more likely
to be one of the few who get to go into space, or of the many who would
get to control a Tuto?  And can you get more space structures built by 
sending up a few Men, or a lot of Tutoes?  I think that by going with 
Tutoes, or something equivalent, we'll bring down the costs of building
space structures, which will encourage building more of them, and in turn,
lead to a need for some humans "on site".  Further, the increased building 
will require either shipping lots of material from earth, which bodes well 
for improved lifting-craft; or use of lunar material, which cannot be 
easily done with teleoperated robots.  Either way, it becomes easier for
humans to get into space.

Tom Craver	hou5a!trc

------------------------------

Date: 3 Oct 84 7:17:14-PDT (Wed)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Countdown begins

The countdown for Friday's launch of the shuttle Challenger began at
1 a.m. EDT Wednesday morning.  A backlog of paperwork from the short
interval since the previous launch temporarily threatened to delay the
launch but NASA appears confident that all can be cleared up in time.
--
Roger Noe			ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe

------------------------------

Date: 4 Oct 84 18:11:06-PDT (Thu)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: 
      hplabs!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!timeinc!timeb!dwight @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Re: Passengers in Space

> LIFE's writeup was quite good. I recommend it.

Of course.

Thanks for the plug!

-- 
		--Dwight Ernest	KA2CNN	\ Usenet:...vax135!timeinc!dwight
		Time Inc. Editorial Technology Group, New York City
		Voice: (212) 554-5061 \ Compuserve: 70210,523 \ EIES: 1228
		Telemail: EDPISG/TIMEINC \ MCI: DERNEST

------------------------------

Date: 7 Oct 1984 1903 PDT
From: Art Zygielbaum <AIZ@JPL-VLSI.ARPA>
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #6 
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Reply-To: AIZ@JPL-VLSI.ARPA

I've been told that the correct pronunciation is probably "Hauley!"

You takes your pick!

Art Zygielbaum
------

------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 84 17:46:00-PDT (Fri)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: hplabs!hao!seismo!cmcl2!acf4!greenber @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Re: none

<>


The first time that a man is in space for about a year and his wife has
a child....Now that is what the seafarers of old experienced  (:-)



Ross M. Greenberg  @ NYU   ---->  allegra!cmcl2!acf4!greenber  <----

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

09-Oct-84  0431	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #8 
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 8

Today's Topics:
			Clarification on "Hauley"
			   Challenger lifts off
		       Blast off, you Space Hosers!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 1984 0843 PDT
From: Art Zygielbaum <AIZ@JPL-VLSI.ARPA>
Subject: Clarification on "Hauley"
To: space-enthusiasts@mit-mc
Reply-To: AIZ@JPL-VLSI.ARPA

My earlier message probably appeared out of context since I forgot to
mention the subject.

On the issue of how to pronounce "Halley" of Halley's comment, I've been
told that the original pronounciation was probably "Hauley."  What's in
a name?

It reminds me of when Bruce Murray (late of JPL) was debating the 
pronounciation of the name of Jupiter's moon Io.  Some people were 
arguing that it should be "ee-oh," others that it should be "eye-oh."
Bruce settled the argument by saying, that if you can't decide how to
say it, just spell it.

Art Zygielbaum
------

------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 84 6:52:48-PDT (Fri)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Challenger lifts off

Space shuttle mission 41-G began on time at 7:03 a.m. EDT today, October
5, when Challenger and its crew of seven lifted off in a flawless launch
into the predawn sky over Kennedy Space Center.  The mission was proceeding
according to or ahead of schedule.  The ERBS (Earth Radiation Budget Satellite)
is scheduled to be deployed from Challenger's cargo bay later today.
--
Roger Noe			ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 84 22:56:21-EDT (Thu)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: 
      ihnp4!houxm!hogpc!houti!ariel!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!wanttaja @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Blast off, you Space Hosers!

<How did they get the back bacon into those little tubes???>

I swear this is absolutely true.  I was watching the news on CBUT,
Vancouver, B.C. tonight, and they had a background piece on Mark
Garneau, the first Canadian into orbit.  The voiceover
introduced the piece as follows:

"The Right Stuff, Eh?  The first Canadian in orbit..."

                                     Ron Wanttaja
				     (ssc-vax!wanttaja)

"The good ship Caledonia finally docked in Porthsmouth, full of dead
horses and sick Canadians..."

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

10-Oct-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #9 
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 9

Today's Topics:
			       41-G LAUNCH
			     41-G activities
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Oct 84 14:32 PDT
From: ANDERSON.ES@XEROX.ARPA
Subject: 41-G LAUNCH
To: Space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Anderson.ES@XEROX.ARPA
ReplyTo: Anderson

I just got back from the Kennedy Space Center where we watched the
launch of 41-G last Friday.  We were in the VIP grandstands on KSC which
is about 3 miles from the pad.  Also in the stands were Billy Jean King
(who was invited by Sally Ride), Judith Resnick, and other dignitaries.
The launch was simply fantastic.  The sun was still rising at launch
time and gave a beautiful golden glow to the whole launch site.  The
flame was very, very bright.  It seemed much brighter than the morning
sun.  The ground shook very noticebly after several seconds from the
thunder of the engines which sounded like thousands of very loud rapid
fire machine guns and firecrackers going off.  The plume of smoke rising
from the pad was brown for the first few hundred feet and then turned
into red, orange, white, blue, and purple at different heights and
remained that way for many minutes.  Anyone know what the different
colors mean?  We could see the SRBs with the faltering flames falling to
earth with our bare eyes.  The shuttle's flames stayed extremely bright
all the way up until it was just a speck of bright light in the sky
soaring away from the falling SRBs.

It was a challenge trying to switch between camera, binoculars, and bare
eyes.  I used a 50-250mm zoom lens on my camera and tripod and the
shuttle filled up the viewfinder very well at 250.

The mosquitos were not very bad at all.  We didn't bring any repellant,
but only a few minor swats were necessary.

We also got to see the caravan carrying the astronauts to the pad as
security stopped all vehicles on the road to let them pass.

We also saw the IMAX movie "Hail! Columbia."  Very impressive.  The
screen was 51/2 stories high with a resounding sound system.

On the flight back to LAX, the person sitting next to me was the manager
of Shuttle Ground Support at Vandenberg.  He works for Lockheed and is
basically responsible for the launch tower.  He was in the firing room
at KSC during the launch to watch and learn how Kennendy handles their
launches in preparation for the first Vandenberg launch on 10-15-85.  He
came away feeling that they have a lot of work ahead and a lot to learn
at Vandenberg.  He inspected the pad 2 hours after launch and was
impressed by the lack of damage.  He mentioned that the firing room,
although exciting, is probably the worst place to 'view' a launch from
due to there being only one or two small windows.

He mentioned one funny anecdote.  During the hatch closing operation
after the astronauts had entered the shuttle, there was a hatch closure
continuity failure which threatened to delay the launch.  The failure
was something like a car door not being closed all the way and the
sensor telling you so.  It was finally corrected and reported over voice
communications as something like, "We have reinitiated the orbitor
personnel closure hatch procedures to meet nominal resurfacing torque
specifications"; standard NASA jargon for, "We opened the hatch and
slammed it shut harder."

Craig Anderson <Anderson.ES@Xerox.ARPA>
Xerox Corp.
213-536-7299

------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 84 6:58:20-PDT (Mon)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: 41-G activities

Challenger suffered only minor damage from Friday's launch, apparently
limited to some thermal tiles.  The Earth Radiation Budget Satellite was
deployed almost three hours later than planned Friday when its solar panels
at first failed to open because of the cold.  Sally Ride used the Canadarm
to keep it in the sunlight awhile and it now appears healthy.  It should
reach its final orbit in about a week.  The Shuttle Imaging Radars (SIRs)
were activated and working properly but a Ku band antenna would not lock on
to a data relay satellite for transmitting the information to Earth.  Data was
stored on high speed tape on board Challenger until the antenna was locked into
position.  Data will now be transferred to the satellite by using the whole
orbiter to point the antenna.  (Sounds to me a lot like 2001.  This is the
13th shuttle flight, you know.  Too bad it's not also Discovery.)  There were
a couple smaller problems with antennae in the cargo bay which were solved
using the robot arm.  Kathryn Sullivan and David Leestma (not Leetsma) have
remotely transferred some hydrazine fuel between tanks in the cargo bay but
their EVA will be delayed two days until Thursday.  Landing is still scheduled
for Saturday afternoon at Cape Canaveral but tropical depression Josephine is
slowly moving toward Florida.
--
Roger Noe			ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

11-Oct-84  0406	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #10
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 10

Today's Topics:
			     TDRS malfunction
			       Re: No joy?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 84 13:44:43-PDT (Mon)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: TDRS malfunction

Apparently there has been a malfunction of TDRS-A, the Tracking and Data
Relay Satellite deployed from Challenger in April, 1983.  This may be due
to a solar flare.  Details are very sketchy at the moment.  The problem
this presents to the current mission is it makes transmission of data
gathered by instruments aboard Challenger very difficult.  A limited amount
of tape remains on board, but if they cannot reestablish communications with
TDRS, much Earth observation data will be lost.  The fuel transfer EVA (space
walk) is still planned for 11:00 a.m. EDT Thursday.
--
Roger Noe			ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe

------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 84 20:17:51-PDT (Mon)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: ihnp4!houxm!vax135!timeinc!timeb!dwight @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Re: No joy?

Concerning the origin of the phrase, "no joy," which I've heard on various
civil aviation radio frequencies where it seems to mean, "I don't have the
traffic in sight," I think it means exactly that, and that's where it has
its origin... fighter pilots, reputed to be the famed macho warriors,
unlike their portrayal as sensitive, caring husbands, fathers, and lovers
as in "Call to Glory" (a show I enjoy a great deal, incidentally), are
SUPPOSED to get a great deal of "joy," you see, upon sighting their
quarry as pointed out to them by sighters and ground and airborne radar
operators... therefore, from the radio call, "no joy," we can surmise
they haven't sighted the b*st*rds yet. I think it's just carried over into
civil aviation, where all pilots (at least those I know) enjoy emulating
their heroes (in such ways as adopting a pseudo-Texan accent, like that
of the hero of "Right Stuff") whether they have a military background
or not.

I think.
		--Dwight Ernest	KA2CNN	\ Usenet:...vax135!timeinc!dwight
		Time Inc. Editorial Technology Group, New York City
		Voice: (212) 554-5061 \ Compuserve: 70210,523 \ EIES: 1228
		Telemail: EDPISG/TIMEINC \ MCI: DERNEST

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

12-Oct-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #11
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 11

Today's Topics:
			       Re: No joy?
			       Re: No joy?
	       Space Shuttle Audio Relay Frequencies (NEW!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 9 Oct 84 22:14:10-PDT (Tue)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: hplabs!resonex!tggsu @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Re: No joy?

Let's see... I think that 'No Joy' means that no target was aquired during a
search operation by a fighter pilot (scenario: Ground controller:
'target .5 km ahead, angels 45'. Pilot: 'No joy').

Others that I've read about:
	'Tally Ho!' - In general, used to mark fighter responsibilities
		among wingmen and to acknowledge an attack order. 
		I recall that some fighter competitions were called
		'tally ho' in the '60s or '70s.
	'Below bingo' - condition of a thirsty fighter prior to air
		refueling. (does anyone know what 'bingo' means?).

Does anyone else here watch ABC's "Call to Glory" TV show? They really seem
to be making an effort at a quality series about life in the USAF test
area in the '60s. Even though you almost always have to sit through each
show's 'human interest' side, the flying and technical side of the series
is miles (clicks?) ahead of anything recent. Come to think of it, even
the 'human interest' side of each show is better than usual for TV -
problems that almost might happen to normal people in everyday life.
It's also just about they only series that includes a husband/wife
relationship with children and daily problems and career struggles and
neighbors and plausible plot lines and...

	Tom Gulvin - allegra!resonex!tggsu - Resonex, Inc. - Sunnyvale CA

------------------------------

Date: 9 Oct 84 9:52:47-PDT (Tue)
To: space @ Mit-Mc.arpa
From: hplabs!sdcrdcf!markb @ Ucb-Vax.arpa
Subject: Re: No joy?

In article <586@ihlts.UUCP> rjnoe@ihlts.UUCP (Roger Noe) writes:
>Does anyone know the origin and meaning of the phrase "no joy"?  I have heard
>it now from three astronauts on separate occasions.  I think I heard it also
>on "Call to Glory" so I am guessing it came from military pilot jargon and
>made its way into NASA.  I also think it probably means "no success".  If
>anyone has further details on how the phrase came about, please fill me in.
>Why didn't Tom Wolfe have this in "The Right Stuff"?  (or did I miss it?)

Probably short for "There's no joy in mudville" from the poem
"Casey at the bat".

Mark Biggar
{allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,akgua,sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!markb

------------------------------

Date:     Thu, 11 Oct 84 10:22:18 EDT
From:     Will Martin <wmartin@BRL-TGR.ARPA>
To:       space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject:  Space Shuttle Audio Relay Frequencies (NEW!)

The enclosed message just showed up at this host, on USENET's net.ham-radio,
rather late in the mission. Unfortunately for those of us who have been
trying to pick up the ham-radio relay of the space shuttle audio traffic,
the frequencies listed below were CHANGED from the ones which have been
being used for this purpose over the last several missions! I have no
idea why these changes were made, and have inquired on the ham radio group.

Anyway, maybe you'll see these in time to use them for the landing. (Sigh...)


----- Forwarded message # 1:

From: rjr@mgweed.UUCP (Bob Roehrig)
Newsgroups: net.ham-radio
Subject: arrl bulletin nr 86 (space shuttle dope)


qst de k9eui
hr arrl bulletin nr 86  from arrl headquarters
newington ct  october 4, 1984
to all radio amateurs  bt

the marshall space flight center  amateur  radio  club  station
wa4nzd  will  be  active  during the space shuttle 41g mission.
launch is scheduled for  1103  utc  on  october  5.   operating
frequencies  are  3.840,  7.255, 14.270, 21.355 and 28.610 mhz.
see september qst, page 46, for information about  the  amateur
radio experiment onboard this mission  ar


----- End of forwarded messages

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

13-Oct-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #12
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 12

Today's Topics:
	     References on Solar Cells from Lunar materials?
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #11
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 12 Oct 84 13:29:07 EDT
From: Michael Sims  <MSIMS@RUTGERS.ARPA>
Subject: References on Solar Cells from Lunar materials?
To: Space@MIT-MC.ARPA


I am seeking references on the manufacturing of photo-electric solar
cells from lunar materials.  I assume that the Space Studies Institute
or others would have considered the issue.  
Thanks, 
-Michael Sims
-------

------------------------------

Date: Fri 12 Oct 84 16:42:15-EDT
From: Rodney A. Brooks <BROOKS%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #11
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

I seem to recall "joy" bing used in the Bigglesworth books (WW1 ace).
In any case its an expression I've been used to all my life growing
up in Australia so I assume it has British origins.
-------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

16-Oct-84  0432	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #13
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 13

Today's Topics:
			    Bingo and tally ho
			    Satalite launching
			      Call to Glory
			   SPACE Digest V5 #9 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-Id: <8410140359.AA18457@HP-VENUS>
Date: Sat 13 Oct 84 20:59:52-PDT
From: Doug <Faunt@HP-LABS>
Subject: Bingo and tally ho
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Cc: SPACE@MIT-MC
Source-Info:  From (or Sender) name not authenticated.

"tally ho" was the opposite of "no joy", and means "target spotted".
"bingo" refers to a fuel remaining/vs distance chart used to 
determine when the A/C must return to base (or some base).

------------------------------

Date: Mon 15 Oct 84 20:41:15-EDT
From: Eric.Crane@CMU-CS-C.ARPA
Subject: Satalite launching
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

Posted for a friend...

:Why was the Hughes Communications Services Leasat 2 FLIPPED from the Space
shuttle's last flight via a "Frisbee Launch"?  I thought the Discovery could
only do a deployment of any sizable mass in a 100% vertical fashion for fear
of collision.

------------------------------

Date: 15 Oct 84 22:49:36 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Call to Glory
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

They may try for some technical accuracy, but the fighter planes they used
in the first movie were DEFINITELY not the century series you would have
seen around a base in 1962. One might also have expected to see a Hustler or
two sitting around the base. Or at LEAST one F-104 air superiority fighter
(or did they all augered into the German farmland?)  The U2's really were
U2's though...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Oct 1984  03:14 EDT
Message-ID: <MINSKY.12055819461.BABYL@MIT-OZ>
From: MINSKY%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA
To:   Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Cc:   SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject: SPACE Digest V5 #9 

Dear OTA,

Just a note to appreciate all the man-years you've put into 
keeping me current with space affairs.  I appreciate good editing.


[Dear All,

I suppose this would be a good time to point out that usually the contents
of the digest are assembled automatically from daily submissions.  The
generally excellent content is due to the members of the list sending in
interesting and informative messages.  Keep up the good work!
	-Ted Anderson (The Moderator)]

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

17-Oct-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #14
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 14

Today's Topics:
			 frisbee launches - why?
				  U-2's
			  The Moon and Antartica
			      Call to Glory
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 16 Oct 1984 0731-PDT
From: Richard M. King <KING@KESTREL.ARPA>
Subject: frisbee launches - why?
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

	I suspect the advantage is that they use less cargo base length.
A one-inch stack of dimes contains a lot more dimes than a one-inch row of
dimes.

						Dick

------------------------------

Date: 16 Oct 84 09:35:00 PDT
From: WOO IL LEE <lee@su-star>
Subject: U-2's
To: space%mit-mc <space%mit-mc@score>
Reply-To: WOO IL LEE <lee@su-star>

	Re "Call to Glory";
		No, the U-2's shown in that first episode are NOT 1960's
machine. They showed U-2R which were produced in the mid or late 70's
(sorry, I don't have my reference materials with me) and all they share
with the U-2C of Gary Powers/Cuban crisis fame in the general aerodynamic
configuration. Their size, weight, structure, sytems (engine ?) and wing
section are completely different. Oh well, I guess this might fall under
the nitpicking category, but I just couldn't help noticing it.
	In the same vein, they sometimes show one particular aircraft in
 flight, but the shots are all of DIFFERENT models of the same type (say
 an F-4, it metamorphoses from one second to the next from a Navy fighter
 into a reconnaisance machine into an Air Force fighter-bomber). And with 
different external stores! I suppose finding the proper film clips in the
military's archives is difficult to impossible.
	I enjoy the flying anyway.
					Emilio P. Calius
					Stanford U.

------------------------------

Date: 16 Oct 1984 15:02-PDT
Sender: WARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA
Subject: The Moon and Antartica
From: Craig E. Ward <WARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA>
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Message-ID: <[USC-ISIF.ARPA]16-Oct-84 15:02:14.WARD>

This is a summary of a review of the article "The Moon and
Antarctica" by Hans Mark in the Spring 83 issue of Aerospace from
the Autumn 83 issue of the Wilson Quarterly.  (What a mouthful).

Mark draws some very interesting parallels between the race to
Antarctica and the race to the Moon and uses them to suggest a
potential time frame for the development of permanent bases on
the Moon.

The South Pole was reached for the first time in 1911 by Norway's
Roald Amundsen who beat Britain's Robert Falcon Scott by about
five weeks.  This race was mainly run for national prestige and
because of the technical problems with getting there, official
involvement declined after the initial successes.

Besides this obvious political similarity, Mark lists some of the
technical problems which had to be solved for the Antarctic which
correspond to similar problems with getting to the Moon.  Each
mission requires artificial life-support systems and staging
bases for support.  In the case of Antarctica, it was the
development of aircraft that allowed continuous human habitation
(since 1942).

With the shuttle program, we should be able to develop the
technology and equipment necessary to reach out to the Moon, i.e.
a space station and an orbital transfer vehicle that will not
need to re-enter the atmosphere.  As you should already know, the
space station should be here by the early 1990's.

Mark feels that a similar 30 year delay may be seen in Moon
development but that it is likely to be quicker than that because
the Moon is more exciting and important than Antarctica.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Oct 84 10:16:47 pdt
From: David Smith <dsmith%hplabs.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
Message-Id: <8410161716.AA12437@HP-MARS>
To: space%mc%csnet-relay.arpa@csnet-relay.arpa
Subject: Call to Glory
Cc: dsmith@hplabs.CSNET
Source-Info:  From (or Sender) name not authenticated.

	They may try for some technical accuracy, but the fighter planes
	they used in the first movie were DEFINITELY not the century
	series you would have seen around a base in 1962.  One might
	also have expected to see a Hustler or two sitting around the
	base. Or at LEAST one F-104 air superiority fighter (or did
	they all augered into the German farmland?)  The U2's really were
	U2's though...

Uh, well, the U-2s they show are U-2Rs, which were definitely not around
in the early sixties.  The U-2R is much bigger than the A's and C's.

Another annoyance was the episode about the F-13.  When I saw the teasers,
I expected to find out what the F-13 was and what happened to it.  The
footage purporting to show the F-13 actually showed an F-105.  I came away
wondering whether the rest of the show had anything to do with the real
F-13.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

20-Oct-84  0402	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #15
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 15

Today's Topics:
		     Shuttle launch date info please
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:     Fri, 19 Oct 84 09:17 EST
From:     "Alexander L. Wolf" <wolf%umass-cs.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To:       space%mit-mc.arpa@csnet-relay.arpa
Subject:  Shuttle launch date info please

I know launch date information for the Shuttle has been posted before, but I've
misplaced it...

I'm planning on being in Florida in the middle of December; are there any
flights scheduled for around then?

                                                       Thanks, Alex.
                                                (Wolf.UMass-CS@CSNet-Relay)

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

21-Oct-84  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #16
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 16

Today's Topics:
		 Please remove me from this mailing list
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Oct 1984  15:29 EDT
Message-ID: <CM.UROP.LEE.12057001977.BABYL@MIT-OZ>
From: CM.UROP.LEE%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA
To:   space@MIT-MC
subject: Please remove me from this mailing list

I am reading it on a different computer.

thanks,
lee

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

23-Oct-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #17
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 17

Today's Topics:
		       Space Development Conference
		       Space Conference correction
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 22 Oct 84 16:09:45 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Space Development Conference
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

1984 L5 Regional Space Development Conference

Place: 		Pittsburgh Hilton, next to Point State Park
Host: 		Pittsburgh L5

=============================================================================
Friday, 26-Oct-84

Opening Session
 17:00		Registration begins
 18:30  	Reception with cash bar
 19:00 - 20:00	Opening address, Dr. Charles Sheffield
 20:00 - 22:00	Filk songs by Julia Ecklar


=============================================================================
Saturday, 27-Oct-84

Morning Session:	Chapter workshops: Effective Chapter Organization
  9:00 - 12:00	Elisa Wynn	Niagara L5
		Beverly Freed	Pittsburgh L5


Afternoon Session:	A Space Based Civilization: The Grand Design
 13:00 - 14:30	Morris Hornik	Space Studies Institute
 14:30 - 15:30	E Doug Ward	Astrotech International
 15:30 - 16:30	Eric Drexler	L5 Society
 16:30 - 17:30	Greg Maryniak	Geostar Corporation


Evening Sessions:	Banquet/entertainment
 18:30			Banquet begins
 19:00 - 20:00		Dr. Philip K. Chapman
 20:00 - 21:00		Diane Ackerman poetry reading
 21:00 - 22:00		SOFEX concert: Return of the Electronic Dream


=============================================================================
Sunday, 28-Oct-84

Morning Session:	Chapter workshops: Politics and Space
  9:00	- 12:00	Jim Muncy	Consultant, White House Science Office
		Gary Oleson	DC L5
		Sandy Adamson	Spacepac

Afternoon Session:	The politics of space
 13:00 - 14:00	Doug Walgren	Chairman House Sci,Rsrch&Tech Subcommittee
 14:00 - 15:00	Jim Muncy	Consultant, White House Science Office
 15:00 - 16:00	Michael Fulda	Space politics and Policy
 16:00 - 17:00	Walter Byrnes	High Frontier: BMD

=============================================================================

Dr. Sheffield, writer of science fiction and science fact, former president
of the American Astronautical Society and current Vice President of Earth
Sat Corporation (Satellite image processing) will open the conference on
Friday night.

Julia Ecklar is a well known writer of 'fiction folk' songs or filk.

Morris Hornik will discuss the hardware directed research of the Space
Studies Institute on mass drivers, lunar mining, solar power satellites and
the rest of the grand vision.

Astrotech will discuss it's future plans, including the purchase of a space
shuttle. E. Doug Ward is a VP at Astrotech and has a long and distinguished
career managing large aerospace projects.

Eric Drexler, a member of the first Space Colony Design Summer Study and one
time student of Dr. Gerard O'Neill, will discuss solar sails and asteroid
mining

Geostar will discuss their commercial navigation satellite system, due to
launch in 1987. Morris Hornik is also the Executive Vice President of the
Space Studies Institute in Princeton

Dr. Phil Chapman is an employee of Arthur D. Little Corporation, An former
member of the NASA astronaut corps (although he did not fly) and current
President of the International L5 Society.

Diane Ackerman is a published poet and a member of the Board of Directors of
the Planetary Society. Her first book, 'The Planets' was checked for
technical accuracy by Carl Sagan.

SOFEX is a performance art group that uses their own electronic instruments,
slide projectors, film, video, dancers, smoke, scents, and who knows what
else...

Doug Walgren is a local congressman and chairman of the House Subcommittee
on Science, Research and Technology.

Jim Muncy is a consultant on space to Dr. George Keyworth in the White House
Science Office.

Dr. Michael Fulda is a professor of Political Science at Fairmont State
College in West Virginia.

Walter Byrnes is a representative of General Daniel Grahams 'High Frontier'
organization, the originators of the 'Star Wars' defense plan.


FurtherDetails: 
	Banquet is $18.20 and must be reserved 48 hours in advance.
Call Steven Shulik, 412-381-2190 (h) or 412-434-6357 (w). All
other payments may be made at the door.

			3 day	Fri	Sat	Sun	concert
				only	only	only	only
L5 Regular member	$30	$10	$15	$15	$5
L5 Student member	$20	$5	$10	$10	$5
General public		$45	$15	$20	$20	$5
General public, student	$30	$5	$10	$10	$5

------------------------------

Date: 22 Oct 84 16:57:20 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Space Conference correction
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

SOFEX concert is from 21:30-22:30

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

24-Oct-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #18
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 18

Today's Topics:
			      Shuttle mishap
			     Ace Salvage Co.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

	id AA06246; Tue, 23 Oct 84 09:49:37 pdt
Message-Id: <8410231649.AA06246@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 23-Oct-1984 1248
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Shuttle mishap

Associated Press Mon 22-OCT-1984 16:16                           Shuttle Mishap
 
   Barge Carrying Space Shuttle Fuel Tank Damages Dock
   VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (AP) - The oceanfront dock at
the new $2.5 billion space shuttle launch complex here was damaged
slightly when a barge delivering a shuttle fuel tank broke loose,
the Air Force said Monday.
   No one was injured, and the $21 million external fuel tank was
not damaged. The accident did cause a six-hour delay in unloading
the 154-foot-tall, 139,000-pound tank.
   ``This is not a high-tech sort of problem,'' Maj. Ron Peck said.
``We've been docking barges for 5,000 years now. ... It was just
one of those `Whoops, here we go, plan `B' things.''
   The fuel tank is to be used in ground tests prior to first
shuttle launch here, scheduled for October 1985. The new complex is
for high-security military shuttle flights.
   The ocean barge carrying the tank tied up at the base's
breakwater-protected inlet at 11:18 a.m. Sunday. About 90 minutes
later, the heavily ladened barge suddenly broke loose with a
screech and a thud, dropping about five feet below the dock's
surface.
   The jolting movement tore loose big timbers and a chunk of
reinforced concrete from the dock, which was specially built to
receive the NASA barges. The damaged timbers were part of a
shelf-like ``lip'' below the dock designed to stabilize the barge.
   Peck said the apparent cause of the mishap was a failure by the
barge to dump its ballast water quickly enough to keep the vessel
level as the tide receded in brisk winds.
   ``It was not a major problem,'' Peck said, adding that ``we just
need to replace the timbers and some minor concrete and steel
work.''

------------------------------

Date: 23 Oct 1984 0921-PDT
From: Richard M. King <DKING@KESTREL.ARPA>
Subject: Ace Salvage Co.
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

	Does anyone know whether Western Union's insurer signed on the dotted
line with NASA?  When are the retrieval operations going to take place?
When will they be televised?

						Dick
-------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

25-Oct-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #19
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 19

Today's Topics:
			 Shuttle launch schedule
----------------------------------------------------------------------

	id AA11268; Wed, 24 Oct 84 08:23:30 pdt
Message-Id: <8410241523.AA11268@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 24-Oct-1984 1012
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Shuttle launch schedule

Associated Press Tue 23-OCT-1984 15:14                            Space Shuttle
 
   Discovery Moved To Launch Pad As NASA Steps Up Flights
                          By HOWARD BENEDICT
                          AP Aerospace Writer
   CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) - The space shuttle Discovery was
moved to the launch pad Tuesday to be readied for the third shuttle
mission in 10 weeks - a flight in which astronauts will attempt to
retrieve two satellites that were sent into faulty orbits.
   In line with NASA's accelerating launch schedule, Discovery will
blast off Nov. 7 with a crew of five astronauts, who will also
release two communications satellites into orbit.
   The flight will be the 14th in the shuttle program and the
second for Discovery, which started its maiden mission on Aug. 30.
Challenger, which returned from space on Oct. 13, is being groomed
for a Dec. 8 trip.
   The third shuttle, Columbia, is being modified by Rockwell
International in California, but it soon will rejoin the fleet to
help the National Aeronautics and Space Administration handle an
ambitious once-a-month launch schedule.
   Atlantis will join the fleet next spring, and NASA anticipates
16 missions in 1986, when a second launch pad will be ready here
and a third will be operational at Vandenberg Air Force Base in
Calfornia.
   During the eight-day November flight, the astronauts will deploy
commercial communications satellites for Telesat of Canada and
Hughes Communications Services Inc.
   Once the shuttle's cargo bay has been cleared of these payloads,
astronauts Dale Gardner and Joseph Allen plan two space walks in
which they will use jet-powered backpacks to fly free of the
spacecraft. Their goal: to recover the Palapa 2B and Westar 6
communications satellites, which were sent into improper orbits
aftr being released by another shuttle crew in February.
   Gardner and Allen will secure each satellite with a pole-like
grappling device, moving them close enough to the shuttle to permit
Anna Fisher to grasp them with the ship's 50-foot mechanical arm.
   Commander Rick Hauck and pilot David Walker will steer Discovery
through the intricate maneuvers needed to track down the
satellites, orbiting 220 miles high and 700 miles apart.
   The satellites originally were owned by the Indonesian
government and Western Union but now are the property of insurance
underwriters, which are paying NASA $5.5 million to retrieve them
and return them to Earth for refurbishment.
   The underwriters hope to sell the refurbished payloads to recoup
some of the $180 million paid in insurance premiums when the
satellites fired into the wrong orbits because of faulty material
in booster rocket nozzles.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

26-Oct-84  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #20
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 20

Today's Topics:
				Space wars
			      Shuttle crews
		  Satellite retrieval / gateway breakage
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 25-Oct-1984 0935
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Space wars

Associated Press Thu 25-OCT-1984 04:32                               Space Wars
 
   Book Says War in Space Could Trigger War On Earth
Eds: Embargoed by source for release at 7:00 a.m. EDT
                            By KARIN STRAND
                        Associated Press Writer
   STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) - The science fiction image of wars
confined to outer space masks the possibility that a war in space
could trigger nuclear war on Earth, says a new book by a Swedish
research institute.
   The book ``Countdown to Space War,'' published today, says there
could even be a disaster by accident if enough of the sophisticated
space hardware envisioned for military use were put into orbit.
   With military forces relying more and more on satellites as
their eyes and ears, accidental damage to or the failure of a spy
satellite ``could, in a crisis situation, lead to war,'' said
Indian space expert Bhupendra Jasani, one of the book's authors.
   ``The killing of satellites that gather vital military
information would make a nuclear holocaust more likely,'' he said.
   Jasani and Christopher Lee, defense correspondent of the British
Broadcasting Corp., co-authored the book for the Stockholm
International Peace Research Institute, where Jasani is a research
fellow.
   Space weapons and space-war scenarios became a topic of
international interest in March 1983 with the ``Star Wars'' speech
by President Reagan. He said he wanted the United States to develop
technology to shoot down intercontinental ballistic missiles in
flight, thus making them obsolete.
   Jasani told a news conference that he and Lee wrote their book
in order to spread knowledge of how space is being used today and
what is likely to follow in this decade.
   He said satellites have many positive applications ranging from
weather-forecasting to monitoring peace agreements.
   However, he contended that three out of every four satellites
have a military application. By using them for command, control,
communications and intelligence, he warned, military commanders are
nearing a point where they would be ``struck deaf, dumb and blind''
if the satellites failed.
   To avoid disaster, the authors suggested treaties banning
testing or possession of antisatellite weapons, along with a
declaration that neither side would be the first to use them.
   Also, they suggested a mandatory and detailed registration of
all spacecraft, and limits on the number of military satellites a
country could launch each year.
   They urged establishment of an international agency to ``use
satellites to verify multilateral arms treaties as well as to
monitor crisis areas.''

------------------------------

Date: 25-Oct-1984 0936
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Shuttle crews

Associated Press Wed 24-OCT-1984 13:16                            Shuttle Crews
 
   Crew Named for Shuttle Mission
   SPACE CENTER, Houston (AP) - The space agency has named a
five-astronaut crew for a shuttle mission scheduled for launch next
August and has changed an assignment on a previously announced crew.
   Robert L. ``Hoot'' Gibson, who piloted the shuttle Challenger
during a February flight, will command the August mission aboard
the Columbia, officials at Johnson Space Center said.
   His pilot will be Marine Lt. Col. Charles F. Bolden Jr. Mission
specialists on the flight will be Franklin R. Chang-Diaz, Steven A.
Hawley and George D. Nelson.
   The seven-day mission is to launch two communications
satellites. The shuttle will also carry a materials-processing
experiment.
   Officials also announced Air Force Col. Roy D. Bridges Jr. has
replaced S. David Griggs as pilot of an April mission. The space
agency said scheduling changes had left Griggs set to be the pilot
on missions only two months apart, which did not allow enough time
for training.

------------------------------

Date:     Thu, 25 Oct 84 13:32:46 EDT
From:     Will Martin <wmartin@BRL-TGR.ARPA>
To:       space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject:  Satellite retrieval / gateway breakage

For those interested in the satellite-retrieval process, I recommend
you see if your local PBS station will broadcast the latest "Enterprise" 
program (this is a series of half-hour shows on various businesses).
This last one was on the insurors' and underwriters' efforts to recover
the two satellites lost from the shuttle flight a while back. An excellent
discussion, including more technical info on the causes of the failures
than I have seen anywhere else. Since many PBS stations repeat programs
or tape-delay them, I thought it was worthwhile to mention this on the
net. The program aired in St. Louis on Wednesday, 24 Oct.

Other topics -- it appears that the same gateway breakage that has
isolated the ARPA and USENET portions of many other lists has also 
affected SPACE. Hopefully this can be soon remedied. Until then,
submitters who have both ARPA and USENET access should send postings
to SPACE@MIT-MC AND post them to net.space.

Will Martin

USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin     or   ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

27-Oct-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #21
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 21

Today's Topics:
			    Soviet-Cosmonauts
		      Successful practice countdown
		    Re: Satellite retrieval mechanism
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-Id: <8410261428.AA00258@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 26-Oct-1984 1027
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Soviet-Cosmonauts

Associated Press Thu 25-OCT-1984 14:06                        Soviet-Cosmonauts
 
   Three Say They Feel Well, Discuss Work In Outer Space
                            By NANCY TRAVER
                        Associated Press Writer
   MOSCOW (AP) - Three Soviet cosmonauts who returned to Earth this
month after a 237-day mission in outer space said Thursday they
think of themselves as pioneers and have readjusted normally to
what was called the ``crushing effects'' the Earth's gravity.
   Flight commander Leonid Kizim, engineer Vladimir Solovyev and
medical researcher Oleg Atkov, at their first press conference
since returning from space Oct. 2, discussed the effects of
weightlessness and their reaction to Earth's atmosphere after their
lengthy sojourn in space.
   The previous endurance record, also held by a Soviet crew, was
211 days in outer space.
   ``We think of ourselves as pioneers. The stress of our long
flight was very hard on us, but we did our best to make the flight
a success,'' said Kizim.
   The space flight began Feb. 8, and docking with the Salyut 7
spae station took place a day later.
   The crew's soft landing in Soviet Central Asia in the Soyuz T-11
space capsule was shown on Soviet television. After the landing,
Atkov appeared jubilant and strong, while Kizim and Solovyev looked
tired, weak and nearly overcome by the return to conditions of
gravity.
   ``It is not easy to perform such long flights and then go back
to Earth, with its crushing gravity. But you can see for yourself
we feel well,'' said Atkov on Thursday.
   Soviet space officials said one of the main goals of the mission
was to test the long-term effects of weightlessness. Atkov said
tha the only effects the cosmonauts felt were tiredness and
difficulty in standing.
   Atkov called weightlessness the mission's ``priority problem''
and said it limited man's willingness to make longer flights.
   Oleg Gazenko, member of the Soviet Academy of Sciences, said
that afte testing the effects of weightlessness on the three
cosmonauts, scientists concluded ``in theory'' there need be no
limit to long-term work in outer space.
   ``This does not mean that all the problems are solved, but we
can say we find no physiological factors that prevent man from
staying in space for long periods,'' Gazenko said.
   Anatoly Alexandrov, president of the Soviet Academy of Sciences,
said the establishment of a permanent platform in outer space with
rotating crews was the primary goal of the Soviet Union's space
program.
   Alexandrov declined to say when such a platform would be
launched. He also dismissed the idea, suggested in a question by an
East European correspondent, that the Soviet Union could send
manned missions to Mars.
   It may indeed take about 237 days to get to Mars, Alexandrov
said, but there was need for a return flight and time for research,
making the mission three or even four times longer and hence not
feasible at the moment, he said.
   Konstantin Feoktistov, another member of the Academy of
Sciences, said extensive exploratory work must be done before
cosmonauts can begin working in open space to build large orbiting
stations.
   He said the cosmonauts discovered the problems of working in
open space during their recently completed mission, during which
they repaired the Salyut 7's fuel line.Cosmonauts must anchor
themselves to the space station and require special tools, he said.
Under the conditions of weightlessness, they also have difficulty
performing strenuous tasks, he added.
   The space station is now unmanned but remains in orbit.

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8410261429.AA00262@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 26-Oct-1984 1029
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Successful practice countdown

Associated Press Thu 25-OCT-1984 11:50                            Space Shuttle
 
   Successful Practice Countdown For Discovery's Next Launch
   CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) - A successful practice countdown was
conducted today for the space shuttle Discovery's Nov. 7 launch on
a mission to deploy two communications satellites and retrieve two
others from incorrect orbits.
   The four men and one woman who will fly the mission climbed
aboard the shuttle for the final 21/2 hours of the test, which ended
at the time Discovery's rocket engines would have been ignited had
the launch been real.
   ``Everything proceeded very well in this dress rehearsal,''
reported Jim Ball, a spokesman for the National Aeronautics and
Spae Administration. ``We're now ready to proceed toward
Discovery's second journey into space.''
   Astronaut Rick Hauck commands the crew, which also includes
pilo David Walker and mission specialists Anna Fisher, Joseph
Allen and Dale Gardner.
   Early in the eight-day flight, the astronauts will release
commercial communications satellites for Telesat of Canada and
Hughes Communications Services Inc.
   Then Allen and Gardner, wearing jet-propelled back packs, will
fly free of Discovery to recover the Palapa B2 and Westar 6
satellites, which were fired into useless orbits by faulty rockets
after they were deployed by another shuttle crew last February.
Insurance underwriters are paying NASA $5.5 million to retrieve the
satellites and return them to Earth for refurbishment.

------------------------------

Date: 26 Oct 84 10:59:40 PDT (Friday)
Subject: Re: Satellite retrieval mechanism
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Isdale.ES@XEROX.ARPA
From: Jerry <Isdale.es@XEROX.ARPA>

The PBS "Enterprise show aired here in LA last wedensday (Oct.24) on
channel 24 and was EXCELLENT!. I hope they show it again.

I was interested in the "stinger" that the astronauts will use to
recover the satellites. For those not familiar with it, its an assembly
with a long rod that the spacewalker will insert into the satellite's
rocket exhaust and then throw a lever that causes prongs to pop out from
the shaft and keep the rod from being withdrawn from the satellite. It
is a rather nice idea but I was wondering if the prongs were
retractible? It would be a terrible mess if they weren't and something
went wrong. Anybody on this list familiar with the equipment?

Also aren't the satellites spinning? Do they intend to match the spin
before grabing the satellite or grab it and then de-spin? Can the MMU
handle such de-spin manuvers? Also the plan calls for the MMU to bring
the satillites back to the shuttle and then use the arm to put them in
the bay. Why not have the astronaut put it in the bay? Is this too
complex a manuver? Too little space in the bay for the MMU and
sattilite?

~ Jerry

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

28-Oct-84  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #22
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 22

Today's Topics:
		       More on Satellite Retrieval
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-Id: <8410271931.AA23515@YALE-BULLDOG.YALE.ARPA>
Date: 27 Oct 84 14:52:24 EDT (Sat)
From: Nathaniel Mishkin <mfci!mishkin%UUCP@YALE.ARPA>
Subject: More on Satellite Retrieval
To: space@mit-mc

While we're all wondering about some details of the satellite recovery
schedule for the next shuttle mission, I'd like to add my own wonders:

What are the constraints on the rendezvous?  According to the PBS show,
the satellites are in quite an elliptical orbit.  I got the impression
that the apogee of the orbit is well higher than the maximum possible
shuttle apogee.  So presumably they have to time the rendezvous so
that the shuttle meets the satellite when the satellite is at a low
point in its orbit.  How long do the astronauts have before the 
satellite drifts too far away?  How elliptical can the shuttle's
orbit be made?  How much force needs to be applied to the satellite
to get it into the shuttle bay?  (After all, it DID fire an engine so
it does have some momentum that has to be overcome, right?  My physics
is, er, a bit rusty.)

How dangerous is all this?  I mean, in the most recent shuttle mission
during the refueling experiment people commented on the "danger" of
dealing with the fuel in that environment.  Mightn't there be some
unexpended fuel sitting in the satellite's booster?  Would you want
to be staring down the gullet of an engine that didn't behave as
expected in the first place?

                -- Nat
-------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

29-Oct-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #23
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 23

Today's Topics:
			  Re: satellite recovery
			    Reusing satellites
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 28 Oct 84 12:38:00 PST
From: WOO IL LEE <lee@su-star>
Subject: Re: satellite recovery
To: space%mit-mc <space%mit-mc@score>
Reply-To: WOO IL LEE <lee@su-star>

A question was raised recently about the remaining fuel in Palapa &
Westar. Please note that the fuel-transfer experiment in the last 
Shuttle mission used liquids. That is because the idea is to refill
the attitude control system tanks. Attitude control thrusters are
always, as far as I know, liquid systems. That's due to the need 
to switch them on and off, which can't be done with solids.
	The Thiokol engine is a solid. Its igniters,which are one-shot
affairs, have already been used  up. Furthermore, the failure mode,
as described in most reports, involves the structural failure of
the nozzle throat area. The nozzle portion downstream of this point
was blown away, so even if some other mechanism were to produce
ignition condition, chamber pressure conditions would make it
impossible to complete the ignition process and reach sustained
combustion.

	As for the orbital mismatch between the Shuttle and the
satellites, I understand that they are planning to use the attitude-
control thrusters to reduce and circularize their orbits. Maybe
they can use them to kill the spin too, as with the Orbiting Obsevatory?
	Does anybody have some accurate information?
					Emilio P. Calius
					Stanford Univ.

------------------------------

Date: 28 Oct 84 13:01:00 PST
From: WOO IL LEE <lee@su-star>
Subject: Reusing satellites
To: space%mit-mc <space%mit-mc@score>
Reply-To: WOO IL LEE <lee@su-star>

By the way, the followin thought just hit me!  If this mission is
succesful, this will be the FIRST TIME EVER that a spacecraft has bee
returned to Earth to prepare it to fly ANOTHER mission. And these satelli-
tes weren't even designed for orbital servicing (after all they were
supposed to go to GEO, and it will be a few years before we service that
one regularly).

I think we are going to learn all kinds of interesting things when the
Hughes engineers try to re- furbish them. For example, are they going to
replace the hydrazine tanks or try to refill them? Will they find some new
effects of the Earth environment on systems that have already been
operating in space?

	Any thoughts?
				Emilio P. Calius
				Stanford Univ.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

30-Oct-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #24
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 24

Today's Topics:
		       Carl Sagan supports Mondale
			Palapa Recovery Techniques
		    Retry - "first spacecraft to ..."?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 29 Oct 84  1248 PST
From: Robert Maas <REM@SU-AI.ARPA>
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

(I saw an AP story in the Peninsula Times-Tribune which used the cute
 phrase "Tip of the asteroid" to compare 3 billion dollars per year
 currently earned from communication satellites with hundreds of
 billions of dollars earned from space by the year 2010. I then tried
 to retrieve that story from the AP archive here, but couldn't find
 it. I found this instead.)

a017  0007  29 Oct 84
PM-Lunar Conference, Bjt,0544
Scientists Gathering to Discuss Mankind's Return to the Moon
Eds: Prenoon EST lead likely
Eds: Updates with opening of conference
By HARRY F. ROSENTHAL
Associated Press Writer
    WASHINGTON (AP) - Although the United States is only barely embarked
on building a space station, several scientists and engineers
gathered today to discuss space projects to follow - particularly the
establishment of a permanent base on the moon.
    ''The lunar base is one of the more obvious of the goals we can
reach,'' George A. Keyworth, President Reagan's science adviser, told
the opening of the three-day conference.
    He said that before such a project is started decisions must be made
on where it will lead and why.
    ''Remember, much of the momentum of our space program was lost after
Apollo because we treated the moon as an end to itself,'' Keyworth
said.
    Walter Hickel, secretary of the interior in the Nixon administration
and a former governor of Alaska, called the Apollo moon missions a
''glorious elevation of the human spirit in our society,'' and added
that ''that kind of inspiration doesn't come along very often.''
    ''A return to the moon would be a rational extension of our program
to expand human activities in space,'' said James M. Beggs, the head
of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.
    He said that a generation of people who have grown up in the space
age will be in a decision-making role and ''they will be expecting
benefits and pragmatic results'' from space ventures.
    He forecast that it is highly likely that in the next 25 years the
United States will return to the moon.
    ''We will do so,'' he said, ''not only to mine its oxygen-rich rocks
and other resources, but to establish an outpost for further
exploration and expansion of human activities in the solar system, in
particular, on Mars and the near-Earth asteroids.''
    The symposium, sponsored by NASA, is being held at the National
Academy of Sciences. It is part of an effort to decide the direction
of space exploration after an $8 billion permanent manned station is
put in orbit around 1992. The space station, declared a national goal
by President Reagan, is only in the preliminary design stage now.
    Other speakers scheduled for the opening session were George
Keyworth, the president's science adviser; Walter Hickel, former
secretary of Interior; Harrison Schmitt, a moon-walking astronaut and
former senator; and Arthur Kantrowitz, a physicist and professor of
engineering at Dartmouth College.
    Last April, a small working group met in Los Alamos, N.M., and
examined the unique scientific experiments that could be carried out
at a lunar base, the potential development of the moon's resources
for industrial and space transportation; the problems of man's living
and working on the moon; the technological and scientific
requirements for a lunar base, and the economic, political and legal
problems that would be faced.
    The group termed industrial development ''a compelling component of
a lunar base,'' adding:
    ''The first base could be mainly a demonstration of industrial
promise. It is an excellent arena in which to test our faith in our
ability to adapt the resources of space for our needs in space.''
    Twelve American astronauts walked on the moon during the Apollo
program of the late 1960s and early 1970s. The last of those
missions, Apollo 17, was in December 1972 and no human has been on
the moon since.
    ''A whole generation of people is coming of age, not only in the
United States, but around the world, who are barely able to remember
that it was once thought impossible to go to the moon,'' said Beggs.
    ''We now know that we can get there. The question is, what should we
be doing if we establish permanent roots there, to make our presence
most productive and beneficial to mankind?''
    Beggs said he hoped America's friends and allies will join in the
space station effort and lay the groundwork for further international
cooperation.
    ''An internationally developed lunar base,'' he said, ''might even
prove an irresistable lure to the Soviets.''
    The Soviets have said that once they have developed a permanent
space station, they would like to use it as a jumping off place to
establish a research base on the moon.

------------------------------

Date: 29 Oct 1984 17:46-EST
From: Jon.Webb@CMU-CS-IUS2.ARPA
Subject: Carl Sagan supports Mondale
To: Space@MC
Message-Id: <467937962/webb@CMU-CS-IUS2>

I just heard on National Public Radio that Carl Sagan has begun a
12-city tour to support Walter Mondale for President.  He's doing this
to stop Reagan's "Star Wars" plan.  I think this should give pause to
anyone considering voting against Mondale because of his generally
negative attitude on space development.  Sagan is clearly supportive of
space development, and the fact that he's willing to support Mondale
shows he thinks stopping the dangerous "Star Wars" plan is more
important than NASA getting a few more bucks to develop space weapons.

------------------------------

Date:     Mon, 29 Oct 84 20:31:11 EST
From:     Joe Pistritto <jcp@BRL-TGR.ARPA>
To:       Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject:  Palapa Recovery Techniques

	Yes, the attitude control thrusters will be used to de-spin
the Palapa satellite and its lost brother.  As a matter of fact, this
has already been accomplished, I believe.  The thrusters will be
of course, deactivated from performing ANY control functions when
the orbiter approaches the satellites.  The spin rate at contact will
be 1 RPM or less.  (IT can't be zero, or the satellites would start
pitching around, etc. and would require constant thruster firings to
maintain a stable attitude).  The remaining spin will be killed by
the astronaut after he has grappled the satellite.  Note that the
astronaut will approach from along the spin axis this time, inserting
an expandable probe into the solid rocket motor nozzle of the satellite.
(Yes, NASA DOES learn from its almost-mistakes, (ie. Solar Max))

							-JCP-

------------------------------

Date: 30 Oct 84  0107 PST
From: Robert Maas <REM@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: Retry - "first spacecraft to ..."?
To:   lee@SU-STAR.ARPA
CC:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA 

[Retry, SU-Ethernet and/or SCORE mailbridge was down when I tried earlier]
Date: 29 Oct 1984 1823-PST
Reply-to:REM@MIT-MC
Subject: Returning spacecraft to fly again?
To:   lee%su-star@SCORE
cc:   space%mit-mc@SCORE

    Date: 28 Oct 84 13:01:00 PST
    From: WOO IL LEE <lee@su-star>
    By the way, the followin thought just hit me!  If this mission is
    succesful, this will be the FIRST TIME EVER that a spacecraft has bee
    returned to Earth to prepare it to fly ANOTHER mission.
You're forgetting the obvious!! The STS orbiters have been returned to
Earth to fly another mission. Perhaps you meant to say UNMANNED spacecraft?

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

31-Oct-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #25
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 25

Today's Topics:
			     Space telescope
			     Lunar conference
			  Teacher-Space Shuttle
		     Re: Carl Sagan supports Mondale
			"first spacecraft to ..."
		     re: Carl Sagan supports Mondale
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-Id: <8410301631.AA21391@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 30-Oct-1984 1129
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Space telescope

Associated Press Tue 30-OCT-1984 00:05           Space Telescope
 
Late, Over Budget, Oversized, Space Telescope Leaves Connecticut
   DANBURY, Conn. (AP) - Oversized and over its budget, a giant
telscope began its journey to California on Monday, where it is
schduled to be installed in a spacecraft and launched by a space
shuttle in the summer of 1986.
   State police escorted the telescope, which rode on a flatbed
truck, to Stewart Air Force Base in Newburgh, N.Y., on the first
leg of its trip. Aside from some minor traffic problems caused
partially by the load's 16-foot width, it arrived without incident.
   From the Air Force base, it is scheduled to be flown to the
Lockheed Corp. in Sunnyvale, Calif., and installed on a
Lockheed-built spacecraft.
   The space telescope, built by Perkin Elmer Corp., had been
delayed for more than a year and cost about $600 million more than
anticipated.
   Originally budgeted at $475 million, costs are projected to
reach about $1.2 billion by the time the telescope is launched.
   As costs escalated and the project fell behind schedule,
Congress and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration
investigated. But NASA finally sided with Perkin-Elmer, saying it
had underestimated the difficulty of building such an instrument.
   Built at a Perkin-Elmer Corp.'s optical division plant in
Danbury, the telescope was designed to observe objects seven times
farther away than telescopes on Earth. It is about 33 feet long and
10 feet in diameter.
   Once set in orbit about 310 miles above Earth, the telescope
should be active for about 15 years, according to company officials.

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8410301644.AA21523@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 30-Oct-1984 1133
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Lunar conference

Associated Press Mon 29-OCT-1984 15:41            Lunar Conference
 
   Moon-Walker Schmitt Suggests Mars Expedition
                         By HARRY F. ROSENTHAL
                        Associated Press Writer
   WASHINGTON (AP) - While other speakers at a conference of
engineers and scientists spoke Monday of establishing a permanent
base on the moon, a former moon-walking astronaut brought up what
he thinks is the ``ultimate rationale'' for such a settlement: to
go to Mars.
   Harrison Schmitt said a Soviet attempt to put cosmonauts in the
vicinity of Mars by October 1992, the 75th anniversary of the
Bolshevik Revolution, ``is not only possible, it is highly
probable.''
   He said it would be sad ``if this adverse trend of political
history is established in the 500th year after the discovery of
America'' and suggested that the United States and Soviets ``may be
able to join hands in this great adventure.''
  Schmitt was an Apollo 17 crewman and later served one term as a
Republican senator from New Mexico. He called a settlement on Mars
``the first great adventure for humankind'' of the next thousand
years.
   Children now in elementary school will be ``the parents of the
first Martians,'' Schmitt said. He added that a self-sustaining
settlement on the moon is of importance to them because it will
provide the technical and institutional basis to go to Mars ``with
the purpose of establishing a permanent base on the first
expedition.''
   Schmitt was among the first of about 150 speakers presenting
papers at a three-day conference on ``Lunar Bases and Space
Activities in the 21st Century,'' sponsored by the National
Aeronautics and Space Administration.
   He spoke of an ``Earth Orbital Civilization'' that will derive
its resources from lunar surface materials for both space
transportation and manufacturing.
   ``The demonstrated fertility of the lunar soil may be the basis
of an agricultural economy in space which will support both a lunar
settlment as well as Earth-orbit space stations,'' he said. Once
established, ``it should be possible to expand food production
steaily and to recycle a large poortion of the water and
nutrients.''
   George A. Keyworth, President Reagan's science adviser, said
``the lunar base is one of the more obvious of the goals we can
reach,'' but decisions must be made on where the project will lead,
and why, before it is begun.
   ``Remember, much of the momentum of our space program was lost
after Apollo because we treated the moon as an end to itself,''
Keyworth said.
   ``A return to the moon would be a rational extension of our
program to expand human activities in space,'' said NASA
Administrator James M. Beggs.
   He predicted the United States will return to the moon in the
next 25 years.
   ``We will do so, not only to mine its oxygen-rich rocks and
other resources, but to establish an outpost for further
exploration and expansion of human activities in the solar system,
in particular, on Mars and the near-Earth asteroids,'' Beggs said.

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8410301632.AA21398@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 30-Oct-1984 1131
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Teacher-Space Shuttle

Associated Press Mon 29-OCT-1984 13:48        Teacher-Space Shuttle
 
   Eds: SUBS first two grafs to show the person selected will have
normal, sted low, blood pressure, and will be first chosen from
general public, sted first non-astronaut
   HUNTSVILLE, Ala. (AP) - The teacher chosen to fly aboard the
space shuttle in 1986 will need at least five years of teaching
exprience, normal blood pressure and good hearing, a NASA official
says.
   Alan Ladwig, director of NASA's Space Flight Participation
Program, said applications from interested elementary and secondary
teachers will be accepted from Dec. 1 to Feb. 1. The winner, chosen
from a field of 10 finalists picked on July 4, 1985, will become
the first person drawn from the general public to be sent into
space. President Reagan said the first such person should be a
teacher.
   Ladwig, who previewed the requirements to a group of 40 teachers
at a mock shuttle mission at the Alabama Space and Rocket Center on
Saturday, said NASA would soon issue the requirements in final form.
   He said the winning teacher must be able to adapt to flight
experience and mission activities and be willing to contract with
NASA for public lectures for one year following the flight.
   Medical requirements include a blood pressure level less than
160 over 100 and the ability to hear whispered speech at three
feet, he said.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Oct 84 10:28:50 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8410301828.AA01366@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: Jon.Webb@CMU-CS-IUS2.ARPA, Space@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Re: Carl Sagan supports Mondale

	(1) Let us be precise.  NASA isn't getting money from the Space
Defense Initiative; if I'm not mistaken, that's all going to the USAF's
Space Command.

	(2) NASA is getting money for two things: one is to develop the
Shuttle, which was unarmed the last time I looked.  The second is to develop
the space station, which is supposed to be a civilian enterprise. Neither of
these can be construed as space weapons.

	(3) Mondale has promised to cancel the space station and scrap the
fifth orbiter; I can't believe that he'd support a moonbase, which James
Beggs said earlier this week could be a joint endeavour with the Soviets.
Again, neither of these projects can be construed as space weapons.  Mondale
can't cut space weapons from the NASA budget because there aren't any there
to cut; he can -- and will, if elected -- cut civilian projects.  Sagan has
concluded that Mondale's position on nuclear weapons and defense systems is
more important than keeping NASA alive, a reasonable enough position.
There are those of us, though, who don't agree, and this too is a reasonable
position.

					Rick.

------------------------------

Date: 30 Oct 1984 0926-PST
From: Richard M. King <DKING@KESTREL.ARPA>
Subject: "first spacecraft to ..."
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

	A better characterization of the uniqeness of the communication
satellite repair mission is that is the first time a satellite has been
returned to Earth to fly another mission WITHOUT PROVISIONS DESIGNED INTO
THE SATELLITE.

	With this characterization it will probably also be the last time.

						Dick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Oct 84 14:08:45 pst
From: Ross Finlayson <rsf@Pescadero>
Subject: re: Carl Sagan supports Mondale
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA

    Sagan is clearly supportive of
    space development, and the fact that he's willing to support Mondale
    shows he thinks stopping the dangerous "Star Wars" plan is more
    important than NASA getting a few more bucks to develop space weapons.

NASA does NOT (and I hope, will not) develop space weapons.  NASA is a
civilian agency.

	Ross.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

01-Nov-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #26
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 26

Today's Topics:
			  NASA and space weapons
			     Reagan-Satellite
		 Teacher in space -- hearing requirement
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 31 Oct 84 08:01:11 PST (Wed)
To: Ross Finlayson <rsf@su-pescadero>
cc: space@mit-mc
Subject: NASA and space weapons
From: Martin D. Katz <katz@uci-750a>

   NASA does NOT (and I hope, will not) develop space weapons.
   NASA is a civilian agency.

The fact that NASA is a civilian agency does not mean that they do not do
research and development on weapons systems.  NASA does not build space
weapons, but they do deploy them (deliver them to orbit).  In addition, NASA
is responsible for the research leading to development of boosters, advanced
aircraft (e.g. "Stealth"), etc.  All such research performed by military
agencies is coordinated with NASA.  In addition, any major increase in
military payload to orbit will mean more money to NASA (unless it all goes
via military boosters).

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8410311804.AA08674@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 31-Oct-1984 1303
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Reagan-Satellite

Associated Press Tue 30-OCT-1984 18:52         Reagan-Satellite
 
   Reagan Signs Legislation Easing Private Space Projects
   WASHINGTON (AP) - President Reagan on Tuesday signed legislation
that streamlines the government approval process for private
launches of space satellites.
   The bill puts the Transportation Department in charge of a
``one-stop shop'' for the needed approvals. The secretary must make
a determination on applications within six months.
   In a written statement, the president said the bill will
``signal to private launch operators that this administration
stands behind their efforts to open up this new area of space
exploration.''
   He said that the new law ``is a milestone in our efforts to
address the need of private companies interested in launching
payloads to have ready access to space.''
   Corporations trying to orbit communications satellites could
become prime customers for private launch companies since NASA
plans to stop using rockets to launch satellites.
   NASA, which needs room on the space shuttle for Defense
Department payloads and science projects, does not have room to
handle the estimated 200 private communications satellite launches
planned between 1986 and 1995.
   U.S. firms sought the legislation so they could compete with
foreigners for the projected $10 billion launch business.
   In addition, Reagan signed a joint resolution on cooperative
Eas-West space ventures.
   In a separate statement, Reagan said ``we are prepared to work
with the Soviets on cooperation in space in programs which are
mutually beneficial and productive.''
   He said the United States had offered to carry out with the
Soviets ``a joint simulated space rescue mission.''

------------------------------

Date:     Wed, 31 Oct 84 13:06:52 CST
From:     Will Martin -- AMXAL-RI <wmartin@ALMSA-1.ARPA>
To:       space@Mit-Mc.ARPA
Subject:  Teacher in space -- hearing requirement

Just out of curiosity, why is "the ability to hear whispered speech at
three feet" such an important requirement for the teacher to be selected
as a shuttle passenger?

I can think of several possible explanations:

1) So the "for real" crewmembers won't have to shout when they tell the
teacher what to do ["Polish that doorknob!"]. (I recall earlier postings
saying that the teacher would be expected to aid the crew by performing
"general housekeeping" sorts of tasks.)

2) That poor hearing would not be important in and of itself, but it
would likely be a symptom of inner-ear problems which would have
adverse effects in zero-gee.

3) So that the selectee would have a better chance of being a worthwhile
pro-space spokesperson in the post-flight lecture circuit, and would be
able to hear questions to answer them.

4) Because all the astronauts' hearing has been completely destroyed
by too much exposure to jet engine noise, and they need someone up there
who can listen for leaks... (:-)  [Or they want to measure what the hearing
loss is for someone with good hearing exposed to a shuttle takeoff close
up...]

None of these really seem too likely, though #2 sounds somewhat reasonable.

Any NASA type out there who can post the rationale behind that selection 
criterion?

Regards,

Will

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

02-Nov-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #27
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 27

Today's Topics:
			      Space Shuttle
			       Space-China
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-Id: <8411011848.AA06775@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 01-Nov-1984 1347
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Space Shuttle

Associated Press Wed 31-OCT-1984 09:08              Space Shuttle
 
   Discovery Ready For Flight Next Week; Challenger Has A Problem
                          By HOWARD BENEDICT
                          AP Aerospace Writer
   CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) - Space shuttle Discovery is in good
shape for its second trip into orbit next week, but a thermal tile
problem could delay the December flight of sister ship Challenger,
launch directors report.
   Following a launch readiness review on Tuesday, NASA said that
except for a few minor problems, Discovery is ready for liftoff
Nov. 7 on a mission in which two communications satellites will be
released and two others retrieved from useless orbits and returned
to Earth for renovation.
   ``We're looking good for Nov. 7,'' said NASA spokesman Hugh
Harris.
   There was less optimism about meeting the planned Dec. 8 launch
date for Challenger. That will be the first Defense Department
shuttle flight, carrying a secret military satellite.
   When Challenger returned to Earth after its sixth flight on Oct.
13, one tile was missing from a wing tip. Investigation showed that
a compound that smooths out rough spots on the shuttle's metal
surface had softened. The compound is between the metal and the
tile, one of about 30,000 silicon units that protect the spaceship
from re-rentry heat.
   Technicians removed adjacent tiles to see how widespread the
prolem was and found the compound had softened beneath about 120
tiles in that area and under about 20 others elsewhere on the
shuttle. The compound is not used over the entire ship, only to
fill in uneven areas,
   NASA said the softening may have been caused by a gas used to
waterproof the tiles, by the cumulative heating effect of six
flights, or a combination of the two.
   ``We have to determine how serious the problem is and how to
correct it,'' said space agency spokesman Charles Redmond.
``Discovery is not impacted, but we don't know yet about
Challenger.''
   Harris said that as a precaution, technicians might inspect one
or two Discovery tiles that are backed by the compound.
   ``However, we don't feel there is any problem with Discovery,''
he said. ``We're looking at the problem as possibly being an aging
process.'' Discovery has had only one space flight.

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8411011849.AA06807@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 01-Nov-1984 1349
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Space-China

Associated Press Wed 31-OCT-1984 18:30                 Space-China
 
   China Reserves Shuttle Space for Satellite Launches
   WASHINGTON (AP) - The National Aeronautics and Space
Administration announced a new customer Wednesday for its satellite
launch services: the government of China.
   After meeting with NASA administrator James M. Beggs,
representatives of the Chinese Broadcasting Satellite Corporation
paid the space agency $200,000 to reserve places on space shuttles
in January and September 1988 for launching two direct broadcast
satellites.
   The money is not refundable, a NASA spokesman said.
   The cost of the launches to the People's Republic of China was
not announced. NASA earns $10 million per launch for communications
satellites under its current pricing policy.
   The Chinese delegation is also meeting with satellite
manufacturers in the United States. The visitors will be at Cape
Canaveral, Fla., for the Nov. 7 launch of the space shuttle
Discovery and at Mission Control in Houston four days later when
the astronauts attempt to retrieve the first of two errant
satellites.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

04-Nov-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #28
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 28

Today's Topics:
			 100 manned space flights
		    Electrophoresis product spoiled   
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 03 Nov 84  2232 PST
From: Ross Finlayson <RSF@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: 100 manned space flights
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

[I presume this count does not include the upcoming shuttle mission, since the
article acknowledges 13 shuttle flights (Wednesday's mission will be the 14th)
- Ross.]

BC-MANNED-FLIGHTS 2takes
(Newhouse 010)
For Monday use
MAN MARKS 100 FLIGHTS IN SPACE
(Note to editors: Dave Dooling is science editor for the Huntsville
(Ala.) Times)
By DAVE DOOLING
Newhouse News Service
    (UNDATED) One hundred times in the past quarter-century, man has
left the surface of his home world in quest of the unknown beyond the
sky.
    Ninety-seven times, humans have circled the Earth for hours or
months, projecting the species far beyond its natural environment in
a way that philosophers have likened to the next step in evolution.
    Six times, humans went to the surface of another world and returned.
    The current total of 100 manned space flights consists of:
    - Six of the U.S. Mercury series.
    - Six of the Soviet Vostok series.
    - Ten of Gemini (U.S.).
    - Two of Voskhod (USSR).
    - Fifteen of Apollo (U.S.). (This was the moon-flight series, but
three trips went to Skylab and one to rendezvous with the Soviets in
orbit.)
    - Forty-eight of Soyuz (USSR) in its two versions.
    - And 13 for the U.S. Space Shuttle.
    Perhaps the best image of humanity extended beyond its environnment,
the stereotype of man in space, is that of first U.S. spacewalker Ed
White floating against a black background, the Earth a curve to one
side, umbilical coiled snake-like around him and his limbs slightly
bent by the shape and pressure of his space suit.
    Cosmonaut Alexei Leonov made the first spacewalk, but pictures of
him were stiff and inhibited. White is the 21st century cowboy riding
the sky, his lariat floating wild.
    It was the Soviet Union that scored the first two psychological and
technological breakthroughs in space. In 1957, the Russians orbited
the first manmade satellite, Sputnik 1. In 1961, they placed the
first human in orbit, Yuri Gagarin aboard Vostok 1.
    The greatest leap was made by the United States, placing a man on
the moon in 1969.
    But the shock of the Soviets' placing a man in orbit before
Americans even could send one on a brief lob shot aboard a Mercury
space capsule led a visionary president to set a tough goal. The
United States would sail across ''this new ocean,'' as John F.
Kennedy called it, and place a man on the moon ''before this decade
is out.''
    The three-man Apollo spacecraft that had been planned for Earth
orbit research was retargeted for the moon, and a two-man interim
craft, Gemini, was initiated to perfect rendezvous and other
techniques that would be needed for the missions.
    The Soviets responded, again before the United States could act,
with an upgraded Vostok called Voskhod that first carried three men,
then carried two and an airlock.
    But the value of having men in space never has gone unquestioned,
and many critical voices were raised at the start and continue today
with basically the same litany: Robots can do the job as well as men,
and without the cost or the risk.
    A summer 1962 ''Review of Space Research'' by the National Academy
of Sciences found: ''By his presence, man will contribute critical
capabilities for scientific judgment, discrimination and analysis
(especially of the total situation) which can never be accomplished
by his instruments, however complex and sophisticated they become.
Hence, manned exploration of space is science in space.''
    But other, equally eloquent voices argued against man's presence in
space, and quickly the space program was viewed as having an internal
battle of manned vs. unmanned exploration.
    Speaking at the University of Maryland in April 1963, Phil Abelson,
editor of Science magazine, said: ''What we are witnessing is the
expansion of a new sophisticated form of the pre-war Public
WorkPdministration. Science is being used as a 'front' for
technological leaf-raking.''
    Such criticism would grow louder after both U.S. and Soviet flight
crews were lost in tragedies. On Jan. 27, 1967, Gus Grissom, White
and Roger Chaffee were asphyxiated when fire swept through their
Apollo capsule during a countdown test. On April 4 that year,
cosmonaut Vladimir Komarov died when his Soyuz 1 spacecraft, tumbling
out of control, became entangled in its parachute lines and crashed
to Earth.
    Grissom, aware of the hazards, had said: ''If we die, we want people
to accept it. ... The conquest of space is worth the risk.''
    Both nations pressed on, and Apollo became a complete success,
placing 12 men (including a geologist) on the moon and providing a
cliffhanger with one mission disabled and barely making it back to
Earth.
    In 1972, while the last Apollo mission was under way, Time magazine
criticized the program's demise. Those who had opposed it were
''prisoners of limited vision who cannot comprehend, or do not care,
that Neil Armstrong's step in the lunar dust will be well remembered
when most of today's burning issues have become mere footnotes in
history.''
    Space stations became the order of the day. Apollo gave way to
Skylab, and Soyuz became the servant of Salyut, comparable to Skylab
but smaller. But again tragedy struck, killing three cosmonauts
returning from Salyut 1 after a three-week stay. A leaky valve let
all their air escape from the re-entry capsule.
    Again the Soviet program recovered, following with a series of space
stations, the most recent and successful being Salyuts 6 and 7.
    As NASA started shaping its post-Apollo future, the debate on manned
space flight livened again.
    Then-Sen. Walter F. Mondale, D-Minn., led the fight against the
proposed space shuttle, saying: ''I have seen no persuasive
justification for embarking upon a project of such staggering costs
at a time when many of our citizens are malnourished, when our rivers
and lakes are polluted, and when our cities and rural areas are
decaying.''
    ''I want to shift spending from space extravaganzas to needy
programs,'' the late Sen. Clifford Case, R-N.J., said then. ''The
space shuttle ... should not be allowed to go forward until the
proper role of manned vs. unmanned exploration has received a fuller
examination than it has to date.'''
    An opposing view came from Sen. Mike Gravel, D-Alaska. ''Future
historians will smile at the irony of our situation,'' he said of the
early end to Apollo. ''Immediately following the fantastic feat of
sending men to the surface of the moon and back in safety, our
national resolve in expanding this effort faced a mounting wave of
domestic criticism. The irony of homo sapiens for the first time
standing upright on his planet and not availing himself of his full
ability to explore and experiment in the universe. The irony of not
moving forward as aggressively as possible from a new beginning
almost as fundamental as the beginning of life itself.''
    Even the New York Times, which had opposed Apollo, responded
favorably to the shuttle, noting it was less expensive than Apollo
and not conceived in a ''beat the Russians'' atmosphere.
    NASA went on to build the space shuttle, the reusable spacecraft
which has not flown as frequently or cheaply as the agency promised
at the start, but which has done virtually everything else from
hosting scientists to repairing satellites in its first 13 missions,
the latest being the 100th manned space flight.
RB END DOOLING
(DISTRIBUTED BY THE NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE)
    
nyt-11-02-84 1844est
***************

------------------------------

Date: 03 Nov 84  2234 PST
From: Ross Finlayson <RSF@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: Electrophoresis product spoiled   
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

a255  1739  02 Nov 84
AM-Space Hormone,0378
Space Drug Contaminated, Possibly Destroyed
By HARRY F. ROSENTHAL
Associated Press Writer
    WASHINGTON (AP) - A drug created in space by America's first
industry-sponsored astronaut two months ago has been contaminated and
possibly destroyed, the McDonnell Douglas Corp. said Friday.
    The firm, which hopes some day to market the mystery drug to treat a
disease affecting millions of people, did not have an explanation for
the contamination but said it will use ''different procedures for
sterilization of the equipment before flight.''
    The drug, a hormone, was manufactured aboard the space shuttle
Discovery on a flight in late August and September by Charles D.
Walker, chief test engineer for a McDonnell Douglas project on making
drugs in space. He used a process called electrophoresis which
separates and purifies the hormone from cell culture fluids.
    The contamination is so bad that the material returned from space is
unsuitable for testing in laboratory animals.
    ''McDonnell Douglas scientists are studying methods of separating
the contaminants from the hormone,'' the firm said.
    A source in the National Aeronautics and Space Administration said
it appeared ''a microbe contaminated the material'' after the shuttle
landed at Edwards Air Force Base in California.
    The aerospace firm paid NASA $80,000 for his astronaut training.
    Walker's assays during the flight confirmed that the hormone was
present and being collected, said McDonnell Douglas spokeswoman Susan
Flowers in St. Louis.
    ''However, no hormone activity was detected when the material was
returned to St. Louis'' after the shuttle landed in California, a
McDonnell Douglas statement said. ''It is presumed that the
contamination is either masking the presence of or has destroyed the
hormone.''
    The firm said it will ask NASA soon to allow Walker and the
equipment to fly on one additional shuttle mission to recoup from the
loss of the material. Walker already is scheduled to fly again in
March to gather more of the drug.
    Even though its effort failed, the firm said it was pleased with the
performance of Walker, who had to make in-flight repairs to the
equipment.
    ''We are instituting different procedures for sterilization of the
equipment before flight and lower operating temperatures are under
study,'' said James P. Rose, director of the project. ''Problems of
this sort are not unusual for developmental flights.''
    
AP-NY-11-02-84 2034EST
***************

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

05-Nov-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #29
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 29

Today's Topics:
		   IEEE Transactions on Magnetics issue
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 4 Nov 84 17:59:06 EST
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: IEEE Transactions on Magnetics issue
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

The March 1984 issue of IEEE Trans. on Magnetics contains papers presented
at a conference on railguns.  The articles are very interesting, and show
the breadth of DOD funding for railgun research.  There are even some
papers on a 200 m railgun for accelerating 500 kg payloads to orbital
velocity.  Cost: 1 billion dollars.  It hasn't been built yet, of course,
but I suspect it will be soon -- it would make a great weapon.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

06-Nov-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #30
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 30

Today's Topics:
			     Wednesday launch
			   Lunar Base Symposium
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-Id: <8411051508.AA19007@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 05-Nov-1984 1008
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Wednesday launch

Associated Press Mon 05-NOV-1984 03:38                            Space Shuttle
 
   Eds: SUBs 6th graf pvs. ``Liftoff for...'' to CORRECT Challenger
to Discovery; Picks up 7th graf ``On the...''
                          By HOWARD BENEDICT
                          AP Aerospace Writer
   CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) - The countdown began today for
Wednesday's launch of space shuttle Discovery on a mission in which
astronauts will release two communications satellites and recover
two others that were sent into errant orbits.
   ``It's an exciting mission,'' commander Rick Hauck told
reporters as he and his shuttle crew arrived here Sunday to make
final preparations for launch.
   Pointing in the direction of the launch pad, three miles away,
Hauck added: ``We're looking forward to climbing into that machine
in a couple days, and I guarantee you we're going to have a lot of
fun. We're very excited about taking two satellites into
space...and bringing back two others that have been in wayward
orbits.''
   The other crew members are pilot David Walker and mission
specialists Anna Fisher, Joe Allen and Dale Gardner. Mrs. Fisher is
the fourth American woman and the first mother named to a space
flight. She and her astronaut husband Bill are parents of a
year-old daughter.
   The countdown started at 2 a.m. EST when test conductor Jerry
Crute issued the traditional ``call to stations'' that summoned
crews to the launch pad and the control center.
   Liftoff for the 14th shuttle mission, the second for Discovery,
is set for 8:18 a.m. Wednesday. The ship is to return to Earth
eight days later, landing on a runway at this spaceport.
   On the second and third days of the flight, the astronauts will
release commercial communications satellites owned by Telesat of
Canada and Hughes Communications Services Inc.
   The deployments will empty the cargo bay, clearing the way for
the retrieval of the Palapa B2 and Westar 6 satellites. These
payloads were released successfully by a shuttle crew last
February, but faulty booster rockets injected them into useless
orbits.
   Hauck and Walker are to guide Discovery through a series of
complex maneuvers to within 35 feet of each satellite - Palapa on
the fifth day and Westar on the seventh.
   Allen and Gardner are to capture the satellites during two space
walks expected to last six hours each. Allen will use a jet-powered
back pack to fly free of the shuttle and latch onto Palapa with a
pole-like grasping device. Gardner will do the same for Westar.
   Insurance underwriters are paying the National Aeronautics and
Space Administration $5.5 million to return the satellites to Earth
for refurbishment. The underwriters hope to resell the renovated
satellites to recoup some of the $180 million in premiums they paid
out when the payloads entered the wrong orbits.

------------------------------

Date: 5 Nov 84 18:29:42 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Lunar Base Symposium
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

The sad thing about the lunar base symposium was that people like Kraft
Ehricke were describing how to get back to the moon in 5 years, while NASA
officials whimpered about doing it in less than 25 years. I've heard
comments about the "greying of NASA". I think we should worry more about the
yellowing.

It is the people like Krafft who make dreams worth dedicating your life to.
I find it pathetic to see what has become of the NASA that once took us to
the moon in less than ten years. There is simply no way to convince me that
with 20 years of advancement it would take us 25 years to get back. Only a
fool, and a gutless one at that, would suggest such a thing.

I am much afraid NASA is right though. THEY may not be back on the moon in
25 years. But I'll bet Rockwell or Astrotech or Boeing is...

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

07-Nov-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #31
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 31

Today's Topics:
			      Meteor Shower
				Space Wars
      Replies -- (1) apollo moon (2) insurance returning satellites
			      Space Shuttle
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-Id: <8411061748.AA09348@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 06-Nov-1984 1246
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Meteor Shower

Associated Press Mon 05-NOV-1984 19:03                 Meteor Shower
 
   Meteor Shower Decorates South Texas Sky
   EDINBURG, Texas (AP) - Streaks of light across the southern
Texas sky that followed a sonic boom may have been a shower of
particles from a disintegrating meteor, an astronomer said.
   The aerial display was reported Sunday night from San Antonio to
the Rio Grande Valley.
   Witnesses reported hearing a sonic boom, seeing what looked like
a giant fireworks display and feeling an earthquake-like tremor,
said Sam Giuoco, an astronomy professor at Pan American University.
   The display may have been caused by a meteor that broke into
several pieces as it entered the atmosphere, Giuoco said.
   Ed LeMaster, professor of physical science at the university,
said one of his students reported seeing the display just south of
McAllen.
   ``Nobody reports seeing it hit the ground. There were probably
lots of different fragments. But the chances of finding one are
very slim,'' LeMaster said.
   More such displays may be visible soon because Earth is between
two predictable meteor showers, LeMaster said. The Orion peeked in
October and the Leonid is supposed to peak Nov. 17, he said.

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8411061750.AA09403@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 06-Nov-1984 1247
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Space Wars

Associated Press Mon 05-NOV-1984 16:39                Space Wars
 
   Space Center Head Says Military Will Enter Space
  SPACE CENTER, Houston (AP) - The world's military powers will
soon turn to space for defense ``whether we want it to happen or
not,'' says the director of the Johnson Space Center.
   Space will become the new frontier for military ventures, just
as the sea and the air were, director Gerald D. Griffin told the
Houston Post in an article published Monday.
   ``In the beginning they (air and sea) were regarded as hostile
environments,'' Griffin said. ``Ultimately, both of those
environments were used for two purposes; one was commerce and the
other was defense.
   ``The fact is that space is going to be the same sort of new
environment that is opened up,'' he said. ``And we've seen signs of
it already.''
   The first space shuttle mission solely for military purposes is
set for next month, and the Reagan administration's proposed ``star
wars'' space defense against nuclear missiles has been a major
issue in the presidential campaign.
   Griffin said he doesn't know how the space program would be
affcted if President Reagan is not re-elected.
   ``Obviously, there would be some change with any
administration,'' he said. ``We may even see some changes if the
president is re-elected. I've been in this business long enough to
learn nothing is guaranteed.''
   Griffin, a federal employee since 1961, was an Apollo flight
controller for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration,
and was deputy director of Kennedy Space Center at Cape Canaveral,
Fla.
   He said the United States still leads the way in space
exploration, but adds that the Soviet Union, Europeans, Japan and
China are ``all coming on strong.''
   Griffin said he wants NASA employees to think of the space
shuttle as a continuing program, not a series of projects. He said
the program has made great progress.
   ``We're still having a few hiccups flight to flight,'' he said.
But, ``We're not hovering over every flight in orbit anymore.''

------------------------------

Date:  6 Nov 1984 0951-PST
From: Rem@IMSSS
Subject: Replies -- (1) apollo moon (2) insurance returning satellites
To:SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject:Apollo-moon set us back?, insurance return of satellites

	The three-man Apollo spacecraft that had been planned for Earth
    orbit research was retargeted for the moon, and a two-man interim
    craft, Gemini, was initiated to perfect rendezvous and other
    techniques that would be needed for the missions.
Gee, I never heard of the plan for 3-man low-Earth-orbit research
project before. If this is true, maybe the lunar-Apollo program really
did set us back ten years in LEO research. In the 60's we could have
been developing a LEO research program, and have a space station up
about 1970, a permanently-manned one about 1975 (instead of 1992), and
use of lunar and asteroid resources by 1980, and habitat for 1000
people in space by 1984?

Another reply...
       Insurance underwriters are paying the National Aeronautics and
    Space Administration $5.5 million to return the satellites to Earth
    for refurbishment. The underwriters hope to resell the renovated
    satellites to recoup some of the $180 million in premiums they paid
    out when the payloads entered the wrong orbits.
Hey, that's cheap, only about 3 percent. If this mission fails they
could try several more times and when they finally succeed they'd
still be ahead. (Actually that's only the bring-down cost. How much
does it cost after refurbishment to put them back up again? But in any
case, if bringing them down is the part that is mostly likely to fail,
and it's so very cheap, they can try several times without major cost.)

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8411062101.AA01137@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 06-Nov-1984 1249
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Space Shuttle

Associated Press Tue 06-NOV-1984 10:48                            Space Shuttle
 
                          By HOWARD BENEDICT
                          AP Aerospace Writer
   CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) - The shuttle Discovery's countdown
ticked smoothly toward a Wednesday liftoff, but thousands of loose
thermal tiles will delay for several weeks the December flight of
sister ship Challenger, space officials said today.
   Discovery is set to thunder skyward on its second flight at 8:22
a.m. EST Wednesday with a crew of four men and a woman for a busy
eight days in space, wher they will release two communications
satellites and try to recover two others from useless orbits.
   The space agency said the weather outlook for launch was
favorable, with a forecast of scattered clouds and seven miles
visibility.
   Commanding the mission is veteran shuttle pilot Rick Hauck.
Other crew members are pilot David Walker and mission specialists
Anna Fisher, Joe Allen and Dale Gardner.
   The crew was spending much of today reviewing their complex
flight plan.
   On the second and third days, the astronauts will release
commercial communications satellites owned by Telesat of Canada and
Hughes Communications Services Inc.
   That will clear the cargo bay for the daring rescue attempts of
the Palapa B2 and Westar 6 satellites on the fifth and seventh
days. These communications satellites were successfully released by
a shuttle crew last February, but they fired into the wrong orbits
when booster rockets failed.
   There was bad news for Challenger on Monday when the National
Aeronautics and Space Administration announced that 2,800 of its
31,000 heat-resistent tiles will have to be removed because a
compound beneath them has softened, loosening their grip on the
metal surface. One of the tiles fell off during Challenger's last
mission, which ended Oct. 13, and investigation showed the compound
was beginning to soften in other areas.
   NASA said the softening may have been caused by a chemical used
to waterproof the tiles, by the cumulative heating effect of six
flights, or a combination of the two. The agency said careful
inspection of Discovery's tiles showed that ship does not have the
same problem.
   Challenger's next flight, the first Defense Department shuttle
mission with a secret payload, had been set for Dec. 8, but NASA
spokesman Charles Redmond said today that it will be delayed
several weeks. The job of removing and replacing the tiles is very
time-consuming, he said.
   On the Discovery mission, Allen and Gardner are to make the
rescue efforts during a pair of six-hour-long space walks after
Hauck and Walker have tracked down the targets and parked
alongside, 35 feet away. The satellites are 220 miles high, 690
mils apart.
   Propelled by a jet-powered backpack, Allen will fly free of the
shuttle to secure Palapa with a four-foot pole-like device and move
it close enough to the shuttle for Mrs. Fisher to snare it with the
ship's 50-foot robot arm. Gardner will wear the jet-pack for the
Westar rescue.
   Insurance underwriters, who paid out $180 million in claims on
the wayward satellites, are paying NASA $5.5 million to return them
to Earth for renovation and hopeful resale.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

08-Nov-84  0406	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #32
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 32

Today's Topics:
	       Reaching Orbit with Earth-based EM Launchers
    Re: Replies -- (1) apollo moon (2) insurance returning satellites
			      Space Shuttle
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Nov 84 08:19:58 EST
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: Reaching Orbit with Earth-based EM Launchers
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

An interesting thing about reaching orbit from ground based "guns" is that
it is much easier to inject mass into high orbits than into low orbits.
The reason is simple: payloads must be launched nearly vertically, and receive
all their acceleration near the earth, so they have little angular momentum
relative to the earth.  While it is easy to send payloads to orbital
altitudes you must attach a kick motor to circularize the orbit.  The best
destination would probably be the trailing langrangian point (I always forget
if that's L4 or L5), since one could grab some angular momentum from the moon.

To reach LEO one would probably inject the payload into a very eccentric orbit
(with a small burn at apogee to keep the perigee above ground) then use
aerobraking to circularize.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 84 10:26:47 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8411071826.AA01925@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: Rem@IMSSS, SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject: Re: Replies -- (1) apollo moon (2) insurance returning satellites

	Yea, the LEO research station would have been possible had the space
program wanted to go for an Earth Orbit Rendezvous (EOR) rather than Lunar
Orbit Rendezvous (LOR).  I gather that the trouble was that no one wanted to
make the LEM a true space vehicle, i.e., one capable of making a burn from
Lunar orbit into LEO, and vice versa.

						Rick.

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8411072011.AA14573@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 07-Nov-1984 1454
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Space Shuttle

Associated Press Wed 07-NOV-1984 02:28                Space Shuttle
 
                          By HOWARD BENEDICT
                          AP Aerospace Writer
   CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) - Technicians fueled Discovery's
cavernous tanks early today for the first space salvage mission - a
daring attempt by free-flying, jet-propelled astronauts to capture
two wayward satellites for return to Earth.
   The countdown proceeded smoothly and liftoff was advanced by one
minute, to 8:23 a.m. EST, to improve the rendezvous position with
the first satellite to be intercepted and hauled aboard the shuttle.
   Discovery is carrying two commercial communications satellites
and a crew of four men and one woman. Commander Rick Hauck
predicted in advance the eight-day trip will be ``pure excitement.''
   Their goal: Deploy the two satellites for paying customers and
then track down and retrieve the Palapa B2 and Westar 6 payloads,
which have been drifting in useless orbits since February.
   ``It will be a very challenging mission,'' said Jesse Moore,
director of the shuttle program for the National Aeronautics and
Space Administration.
   The other crew members are pilot David Walker and mission
specialists Anna Fisher, Joe Allen and Dale Gardner.
   Mrs. Fisher, a physician, is the fourth American woman and first
mother named to a space flight. She and her astronaut husband,
Bill, are parents of a 14-month-old daughter.
  On Thursday and Friday, the crew will release into separate
orbits the commercial satellites for Telesat of Canada and Hughes
Communications Services Inc.
   That will clear the cargo bay for the attempted rescues of
Palpa and Westar. The satellites, costing $35 million each, were
launched successfully by another shuttle crew in February, but they
fired into wrong orbits when their booster rockets failed. They are
224 miles high, 690 miles apart.
   To chase down the targets, Hauck and Walker are to maneuver
Discovery through a series of 44 engine firings at 17,400 mph.
   When the shuttle steers to within 35 feet of Palapa, Allen and
Gardner will don spacesuits and float out of the cabin into the
open cargo bay. There, Allen will slip into a Buck-Rogers-like
backpack and move over to the satellite, securing it with a
pole-like device called a stinger.
   Allen will push it close enough to the shuttle so that Mrs.
Fisher can grab Palapa with the ship's 50-foot mechanical arm.
Alln and Gardner will secure it in the bay. For the Westar rescue,
the spacewalkers will reverse roles, with Gardner flying to the
satellite.
   Insurance underwriters hope to recoup $50 million to $60 million
of the $180 million they paid in claims by refurbishing the
satellits back on Earth for resale. NASA earns $5.5 million for
theretrieval. The underwriters took ownership of the satellites
from the original owners, the Indonesian government and Western
Union.
   The astronauts also will run an experiment for 3M Co., exploring
the properties and behavior of organic crystals grown in space
weightlessness. The experiment, the first of more than 70 that 3M
hopes to conduct in space over the next decade, might have
important applications to the company's business in imaging,
electronics and health care.
   The flight is the third in 10 weeks for the shuttle program.
NASA had hoped to maintain a one-a-month launch rate for the next
year, but those hopes were dashed Monday when NASA found that 2,800
of Challenger's 31,000 heat-resistant tiles will have to be removed
because a bonding compound beneath them has softened, loosening
their grip on the metal craft.
  Officials said the flight, which had been set for Dec. 8, will
be delayed at least six weeks. But they said they hoped by later
next yer to have the schedule back on track.
 
Associated Press Wed 07-NOV-1984 09:59               Space Shuttle
 
                          By HOWARD BENEDICT
                          AP Aerospace Writer
   CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) - Strong high-altitude crosswinds that
could tear a spaceship apart today postponed the launch of space
shuttle Discovery, and liftoff was rescheduled for Thursday for a
mission in which free-flying astronauts will retrieve two
off-course satellites.
   ``We are no-go today and will have to scrub,'' launch director
Bob Sieck told the astronaut crew of four men and one woman just 32
minutes before the planned launch time of 8:23 a.m. EST.
   A weather balloon detected the stiff shear winds between 20,000
and 40,000 feet above the launch pad early this morning. When they
failed to subside sufficiently, shuttle managers decided to call
off the effort for the day.
   The winds ranged from 66 to 80 mph, but from different
directions. ``The winds are very erratic,'' launch control
spokesman Hugh Harris reported.
   At about 40,000 feet - 71/2 miles - a shuttle is subjected to
maximum dynamic forces as it pushes up through the atmosphere
toward orbit. Strong, erratic winds could severely damage the ship,
tearing off the wings, tail, booster rockets and fuel tank.
   The shuttle weather officer, Air Force Capt. Art Thomas, said
that if Discovery had been launched, it would have been buffeted by
winds ``that would have varied from the northwest, back to the
southwest and back to the northwest again.... We have launched in
higher winds before, but not with these different directions.''
   Thomas said the crosswinds were the result of a low pressure
frontal system moving through the area. He said the system was
moving away and he expected better conditions Thursday, but said
``we'll have to monitor the winds closely'' with a series of
weather balloons.
   The crew was informed of the potential problem just an hour
before the intended liftoff.
   ``We want to make you aware of a situation which is not very
favrable for a launch today,'' Sieck told them. ``We have a
significant shear in the upper atmosphere, and the analysis here is
we would exceed the structural load limits on the vehicle.''
   There was no immediate comment from the astronauts when the
launch was scrubbed half an hour later, and they returned to their
quarters. They had been aboard the spaceship for more than an hour,
and the countdown had proceeded smoothly until the postponement.
   The launch of Discovery, rescheduled for 7:17 a.m. Thursday,
wil send the astronauts on a challenging eight-day mission.
   The astronauts' goal: Deploy the two satellites for paying
customers and then track down and retrieve the Palapa B2 and Westar
6 payloads, which have been drifting in useless orbits since
February.
   ``It will be a very challenging mission,'' said Jesse Moore,
director of the shuttle program for the National Aeronautics and
Space Administration.
   The other crew members are pilot David Walker and mission
specialists Anna Fisher, Joe Allen and Dale Gardner.
   Mrs. Fisher, a physician, is the fourth American woman and first
mother named to a space flight. She and her astronaut husband,
Bill, are parents of a 14-month-old daughter.
   The crew will release into separate orbits the commercial
satellites for Telesat of Canada and Hughes Communications Services
Inc.
   That will clear the cargo bay for the attempted rescues of
Palapa and Westar. The satellites, costing $35 million each, were
launched successfully by another shuttle crew in February, but they
fired into wrong orbits when their booster rockets failed. They are
224 miles high, 690 miles apart.
   To chase down the targets, Hauck and Walker are to maneuver
Discovery through a series of 44 engine firings at 17,400 mph.
   When the shuttle steers to within 35 feet of Palapa, Allen and
Gardner will don spacesuits and float out of the cabin into the
ope cargo bay. There, Allen will slip into a Buck-Rogers-like
backpack and move over to the satellite, securing it with a
pole-like device called a stinger.
   Allen will push it close enough to the shuttle so that Mrs.
Fisher can grab Palapa with the ship's 50-foot mechanical arm.
Allen and Gardner will secure it in the bay. For the Westar rescue,
the spacewalkers will reverse roles, with Gardner flying to the
satellite.
   Insurance underwriters hope to recoup $50 million to $60 million
of the $180 million they paid in claims by refurbishing the
satellites back on Earth for resale. NASA earns $5.5 million for
theretrieval. The underwriters took ownership of the satellites
from the originalowners, the Indonesian government and Western
Union.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

09-Nov-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #33
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 33

Today's Topics:
			     NOAA-F satellite
			       Garn-Shuttle
			      Space shuttle
			 OASIS/L5 lecture in L.A.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-Id: <8411081755.AA08836@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 08-Nov-1984 1253
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: NOAA-F satellite

Associated Press Thu 08-NOV-1984 05:25             Satellite Launch
 
Launch From California Scrubbed
   VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (AP) - The launch of a
satellite to monitor Earth's weather and help locate plane crash
and shipwreck survivors was scrubbed early today because of strong
winds - the same problem that delayed launch of the space shuttle
this week.
   The NOAA-F satellite, mounted atop an Atlas-E rocket, was
scheduled for launch from this coastal military base between 2:42
a.m. and 2:52 a.m., according to the National Aeronautics and Space
Administration.
   But the launch was postponed 24 hours because winds at 40,000
feet were blowing at 120 knots, ``just above the margin that we
needed,'' NASA spokesman Jim Elliott said early today.
   Surface winds of 30 knots also exceded a 20-knot limit, Elliott
said.
   The launch was rescheduled for the same 10-minute window Friday
morning.
   The $56 million RCA Corp. satellite is destined for a near-polar
orbit about 540 miles above the Earth, where it ``will transmit
data directly around the world for local weather analysis,'' NASA
said in a statement.
   The satellite is the sixth in a series of eight intended to
provide scientists with the most comprehensive weather and
environmental information since the start of the U.S. space
program, NASA said.
   NOAA-F also is equipped with special instruments to further test
a satellite-aided search-and-rescue system for finding radio
distress signals triggered by survivors of shipwrecks and plane
crashes or other people stranded in remote areas. The satellite
will assume the duties of a sister satellite that broke down last
June, NASA officials said.
   Similar service is available from three Soviet satellites and
NOAA-F to nations around the world.
   At least 318 lives have been saved by the multi-national
satellite system, said Fred Flatlow of the Goddard Space Center in
Greenbelt, Md. Federal regulations require the use of emergency
locator transmitters on most ships and planes.
   NOAA-F's weather and environmental monitoring equipment can make
weather photographs and study Earth's surface, ocean and
atmospheric temperatures, cloud cover, melting of mountain
snowpacks and ``backscatter'' of solar radiation.
   A satellite similar to NOAA-F is scheduled for launch in August
1985.

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8411081753.AA08822@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 08-Nov-1984 1250
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Garn-Shuttle

Associated Press Thu 08-NOV-1984 04:30                 Garn-Shuttle
 
   NASA Invites U.S. Senator to Fly on Shuttle$[m
With PM-Space Shuttle Bjt
   SALT LAKE CITY (AP) - U.S. Sen. Jake Garn says he never unduly
pressured NASA to let him ride on the space shuttle, but he admits
the invitation resulted from his lobbying and the fact that he
chairs the subcommittee that funds the space agency.
   Garn, a Utah Republican, announced Wednesday that NASA
administrator James M. Beggs asked him to consider ``making an
inspection tour and flight aboard the shuttle.''
   Garn said he has been lobbying for years for such an offer.
   ``But I didn't say to NASA, `You can't have a shuttle unless you
let me go,''' Garn said.
   ``It's a little difficult to believe,'' he said. ``I've wanted
to do this for so long, I feel like a little kid who's been waiting
for Christmas.''
   In his acceptance letter to Beggs, Garn wrote, ``My interest in
making such a flight has been no secret since April 12, 1981, when
Columbia made her maiden voyage. Naturally, I enthusiastically,
eagerly and wholeheartedly accept your invitation.''
   Garn, chairman of the appropriations subcommittee that funds the
National Aeronautics and Space Administration, said he has joked
with NASA officials that he would consider their spending requests
if they sent him into space.
   A former Navy pilot and retired colonel in the Utah Air National
Guard, Garn, 52, has logged more than 10,000 hours as a pilot and
has flown many of the nation's most sophisticated military
aircraft, including the F-14, F-15, F-16 and B-1 bomber.
   On Aug. 27, President Reagan announced he had directed NASA to
search for a schoolteacher to be the first ``citizen-passenger'' in
space.NASA public affairs officers said it was not known whether
Garn would fly before the teacher.
   By pre-arrangement, the announcement came not from NASA, but
from Garn's office.
   Garn said he hoped to go on a Challenger flight scheduled for
Feb. 12, when the Senate will be in recess. Beforehand, he said, he
would undergo more than 100 hours of training at the Johnson Space
Center in Houston. The training would include everything from
coping with weightlessness to ``finding the men's room,'' he said.
   When Garn goes into orbit, his shuttle - like all shuttles -
will be boosted by twin rockets made by a Utah firm, Morton
Thiokol. NASA said the booster contract has meant more than $1.5
billion since 1973 to the company, located in Brigham City.
   NASA said it is extending the invitation for a shuttle flight to
the chairmen of any committees directly responsible for NASA
activities. That would include Rep. Edward P. Boland, D-Mass; Sen.
Slade Gorton, R-Wash.; and Rep. Harold L. Volkmer, D-Mo.
   Several non-astronauts already have flown the shuttle. The first
were two scientists - one German, one American - on the ninth
shuttle mission a year ago. In September, the shuttle carried the
first paying customer, industry engineer Charles D. Walker. Several
others have been assigned to future trips.

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8411081808.AA08903@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 08-Nov-1984 1256
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Space shuttle

Associated Press Thu 08-NOV-1984 02:56                 Space Shuttle
 
                          By HOWARD BENEDICT
                          AP Aerospace Writer
  CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) - With strong crosswinds above the
launch pad a diminishing threat, technicians fueled Discovery again
today for a second try at launching the shuttle on a satellite
rescue mission.
   The countdown, halted by severe winds just 32 minutes before
liftoff Wednesday, ticked toward a new launch attempt at 7:15 a.m.
EST, while weather experts probed the skies with radar and
data-gathering balloons.
   Shuttle managers decided late Wednesday to proceed with a new
count after analysis of balloon data indicated the wind threat had
diminished somewhat.
   ``The weather situation has improved significantly,'' said
mission commentator Jim Ball about five hours before the scheduled
liftoff time. ``At this point, we have confidence that the weather
is going to be favorable at launch time. Some hours ago, it was
reported to be acceptable and the trend is toward further
improvement. . . We are continuing to monitor.''
   The winds that caused Wednesday's scrub ranged from 66 to 80
mph. That is not enough to bother Discovery if they were from one
direction, but they flowed from several directions at different
alttudes, which could catch the shuttle in a scissors, severely
damaging it and endangering the crew.
   ``We all agree that this morning's scrub was done for all the
right reasons,'' astronaut Rick Hauck, commander of the mission,
said in a statement distributed by the National Aeronautics and
Space Administration. ``We were initially disappointed, but we were
pleased with the professionalism of the launch team.''
   The others in Hauck's crew are pilot David Walker and mission
specialists Anna Fisher, Joe Allen and Dale Gardner. Gardner's 36th
birthday is today, and Hauck said the crew was looking forward to
giving him ``the biggest birthday candle of his life.''
   The crew had waited out Wednesday's countdown in Discovery's
cabin for more than two hours.
   Mrs. Fisher, a physician, is the fourth American woman and first
mother named to a space flight. She and her astronaut-physician
husband, Bill, are parents of a 14-month-old daughter, Kristin.
   The astronauts' goals during eight days in orbit are to deploy
two commercial communications satellites for paying customers and
to track down and capture the Palapa B2 and Westar 6 payloads,
which have been drifting in useless orbits since last February.
   They also will operate an experiment for 3M Company, exploring
the properties and behavior of organic chemicals in space
weightlessness.
   3M recently signed a multimillion dollar contract with NASA to
conduct experiments on 72 shuttle missions over the next decade and
to develop an industrial chemical research laboratory aboard the
space station planned for the early 1990s.
   On Friday and Saturday, the crew is to release into separate
orbits the commercial satellites for Telesat of Canada and Hughes
Communications Services Inc.
   Then Hauck and Walker are to guide Discovery through a series of
44 engine firings to track down the Palapa and Westar satellites,
sent into off-course orbits by faulty booster rockets after being
deployed successfully by a shuttle crew. They are 224 miles high,
690 miles apart.
   Allen and Gardner are to make the rescue efforts during a pair
of six-hour space walks Monday and Wednesday, with the shuttle
flying 35 feet away in each case. To capture Palapa, Allen will fly
free of the ship, propelled by a jet-powered back pack, and secure
the satellite with a four-foot pole-like device, moving it close so
Mrs. Fisher can grasp it with a 50-foot mechanical arm.
   Gardner will wear the jet-pack for the Westar retrieval.
   Insurance underwriters, who paid out $180 million in claims on
the wayward satellites, are paying NASA $5.5 million to return them
to Earth for renovation and resale.
   The flight is to end Nov. 15 with a landing here.
 
Associated Press Thu 08-NOV-1984 11:17                  Shuttle Crew
 
  Crew Includes Three Veterans And Two Rookies
With PM-Space Shuttle, Bjt
   SPACE CENTER, Houston (AP) - The voyage of the space shuttle
Discovery is carrying more spaceflight veterans into space this
week than on any of the previous shuttle missions.
   The five-member crew includes three astronauts who have flown in
space before, making this the first shuttle mission to carry more
veterans than rookies. The crew comprises three Navy pilots, a
physicist and a physician.
   Mission commander is Frederick H. Hauck, 43, a Navy captain who
was pilot on an earlier mission. The other two veterans are mission
specialist Dale A. Gardner, 36, a Navy commander, and Joseph P.
Allen, 47, a former nuclear physics researcher.
   The first-time space voyagers are pilot David M. Walker, 40, a
Navy commander, and mission specialist Anna L. Fisher, 35.
   Hauck, who goes by the nickname Rick, was commissioned in the
Navy after earning a master of science degree in nuclear
engineering from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He flew
114 combat missions in Vietnam, was selected as an astronaut in
1978 and flew on the seventh shuttle flight.
   Hauck is married and has two children.
   Walker also was a Navy combat pilot in Vietnam, serving two
tours, and graduated from the Navy academy at Annapolis, Md. He
became a Navy test pilot in 1971, and NASA selected him as an
astronaut in 1978. He is divorced and has two children.
   Allen was selectedas a scientist-astronaut in 1967, during the
Apollo program, but did not fly into space until 1982 when he was a
mission specialist on the fifth shuttle mission. He is married and
has two children.
   Allen holds a doctorate in physics from Yale University and was
a researcher at the Nuclear Structure Lab at Yale and at the
Brookhaven National Laboratory. He also served as science
consultant on the President's Council on International Economic
Policy and was NASA's assistant administrator for legislative
affairs in Washington from 1975 to 1978.
   On his first mission, Allen's planned spacewalk was canceled
when part of his spacesuit failed. He will get another chance as
the lead spacewalker in this mission's attempt to salvage two
satellites.
   Gardner will be Allen's spacewalk partner. The two will try to
retrieve two wayward communications satellites and help bolt them
into Discovery's cargo bay to be returned to Earth.
   In the Navy, Gardner tested weapons and navigation equipment and
was on two aircraft carrier cruises. He was selected as an
astronaut in 1978 and was on the crew of the eighth shuttle flight.
He is married and has one child.
   Mrs. Fisher, the fourth American woman to fly in space, will
operate the shuttle's robot arm to manuever the two salvaged
satellites into the cargo bay.
   Mrs. Fisher and her husband Bill are both doctors. She is a
specialist in emergency medicine and has worked at a number of
hospitals around Los Angeles.
   Both Fishers applied to the astronaut corps in 1977, but only
she was selected in 1978. Her husband reapplied in 1979 and became
an astronaut in 1980.
   The Fishers have a 14-month-old daughter, Kristin, making Mrs.
Fisher the first mother to fly into orbit.
 
Associated Press Thu 08-NOV-1984 08:37              Space Shuttle
 
                          By HOWARD BENEDICT
                          AP Aerospace Writer
   CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) - Shuttle Discovery vaulted
spectacularly into orbit today and began pursuit of two wayward
satellites that free-flying jet-propelled astronauts are to
retrieve in a daring salvage mission.
   During eight days in orbit, the crew of four men and one woman
also is to deploy two communications satellites for paying
customers and conduct crystal-growing experiments that could lead
to a major new industry in space.
   With tens of thousands watching, Discovery roared away from this
spaceport at 7:15 a.m. EST and rose swiftly through partly cloudy
skies on 7 million pounds of thrust, darting eastward over the
Atlantic Ocean.
   Nine minutes after liftoff, mission control center in Houston
reported the winged ship was in orbit 184 miles above the globe,
speeding along at 17,400 mph.
   ``We look good,'' said astronaut Rick Hauck, mission commander.
   Within an hour, the astronauts triggered Discovery's maneuvering
engines in the first of 44 firings designed to track down two
off-course satellites for the rescue attempts next week. They were
to capture the first payload Monday after a chase of 1.6 million
miles, 64 times around the globe.
   Liftoff was a day late. The flight was postponed Wednesday, just
32 minutes before the planned launch time, because of strong
high-altitude crosswinds which could have severely damaged the
shuttle.
   Shuttle managers decided later Wednesday to proceed with a new
count after analysis of balloon and radar data showed the wind
threat had vanished.
   The flight is the 14th in the shuttle program, the second for
Discovery.
   Hauck predicted in advance the flight would be one of ``pure
exctement.''
   The others in Hauck's crew are pilot David Walker and mission
specialists Anna Fisher, Joe Allen and Dale Gardner. Gardner's 36th
birthday is today, and Hauck said after Wednesday's scrub that the
astronauts were looking forward to giving him ``the biggest
birthday candle of his life.''
  Mrs. Fisher, a physician, is the fourth American woman and first
mother named to a space flight. She and her astronaut-physician
husband, Bill, are parents of a 14-month-old daughter, Kristin.
   The astronauts' goals during eight days in orbit are to deploy
two commercial communications satellites for paying customers and
to track down and capture the Palapa B2 and Westar 6 payloads,
which have been drifting in useless orbits since last February.
   They also will operate an experiment for 3M Company, exploring
the properties and behavior of organic chemicals in space
weightlessness.
   3M recently signed a multimillion dollar contract with NASA to
conduct experiments on 72 shuttle missions over the next decade and
to develop an industrial chemical research laboratory aboard the
space station planned for the early 1990s.
   On Friday and Saturday, the crew is to release into separate
orbits the commercial satellites for Telesat of Canada and Hughes
Communications Services Inc.
   Then Hauck and Walker are to guide Discovery to the Palapa and
Westar satellites, sent into off-course orbits by faulty booster
rockets after being deployed successfully by a shuttle crew. They
are 224 miles high, 690 miles apart.
   Allen and Gardner are to make the rescue efforts during a pair
of six-hour space walks Monday and Wednesday, with the shuttle
flying 35 feet away in each case. To capture Palapa, Allen will fly
free of the ship, propelled by a jet-powered back pack, and secure
the satellite with a four-foot pole-like device, moving it close so
Mrs. Fisher can grasp it with a 50-foot mechanical arm.
   Gardner will wear the jet-pack for the Westar retrieval.
   Insurance underwriters, who paid out $180 million in claims on
the wayward satellites, are paying NASA $5.5 million to return them
to Earth for renovation and resale.
   The flight is to end Nov. 16 with a landing here.

------------------------------

Date:  8 Nov 1984 16:28:40 PST
Subject: OASIS/L5 lecture in L.A.
From: Alan R. Katz <KATZ@USC-ISIF.ARPA>
To: bboard@USC-ISIF.ARPA, bboard@USC-ECL.ARPA, space-enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: katz@USC-ISIF.ARPA

			"Steps to the Stars"

			    a talk by

			   Eric Burgess
	Author and co-founder of the British Interplanetary Society


Saturday, Dec. 8, 1984
7:00 PM
Von Karman Auditorium, Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Pasadena

Sponsored by OASIS/L5, the Los Angeles chapter of the L5 Society. 

				Alan

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

10-Nov-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #34
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 34

Today's Topics:
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #33
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri 9 Nov 84 10:55:45-PST
From: Wilkins  <WILKINS@SRI-AI.ARPA>
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #33
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA

There are many long news stories being sent in these digests.  Most of these
are the same stories in our daily papers, and are in no way inaccessible 
or hard to find.  I vote we assume the readership of this list reads the
paper, and therby cut the length of these digests.
David

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

11-Nov-84  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #35
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 35

Today's Topics:
	       Posting of news stories in the SPACE Digest.
			   SPACE Digest V5 #33
				   LEM
			Re:  Included new stories
			   Wire stories: yes! 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 10 Nov 1984 07:42-PST
From: the tty of Geoffrey S. Goodfellow <Geoff@SRI-CSL.ARPA>
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Cc: SPACE@MIT-MC
Message-ID: <[SRI-CSL]10-Nov-84 07:42:06.GEOFF>
Subject: Posting of news stories in the SPACE Digest.

I don't take `papers'.  Never have, never will.  I consider them an
obsolete means of `reading the news'.  I for one muchly enjoy the news
stories posted in SPACE.  Why fumble thru that news print stuff when you
can have it right on your CRT.  Please keep it up!

g

------------------------------

Date: 10 Nov 84  11:32 EST (Sat)
From: _Bob <Carter@RUTGERS.ARPA>
To:   Wilkins <WILKINS@SRI-AI.ARPA>
Cc:   Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: SPACE Digest V5 #33

    From: Wilkins <WILKINS at SRI-AI.ARPA>

    There are many long news stories being sent in these digests.
    Most of these are the same stories in our daily papers, and are
    in no way inaccessible or hard to find.  I vote we assume the
    readership of this list reads the paper, and therby cut the
    length of these digests.  David

Second the motion.

_B

------------------------------

Date: 10 Nov 84 1205 EST (Saturday)
From: Ed.Clune@CMU-CS-A.ARPA
To: space@mit-mc.arpa
Subject: LEM
Message-Id: <10Nov84.120535.EC2F@CMU-CS-A.ARPA>

In response to previous discussions, the reason the Apollo configuration
(ie taking a LEM to the moon rather than having one vehicle go from
the earth to the moon) was safety and reliability.  If an accident 
or malfunction occured with the 2 vehicle configuration, there was
a better chance of the astronauts returning safely (as was demonstrated
in Apollo 13).  I can't give you the source for this information, but
I think it would be in any book that gives a detailed history of the
Apollo program.

    Ed Clune

------------------------------

Date: 10-Nov-84 16:31 PST
From: William Daul - Augmentation Systems - McDnD  <WBD.TYM@OFFICE-2.ARPA>
Subject: Re:  Included new stories
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.arpa
Cc: WILKINS@SRI-AI.ARPA
Message-ID: <[OFFICE-2.ARPA]TYM-WBD-5S4HI>

I vote for continuing adding those news stories.  They are frequently more 
complete than what we see in the papers.  Personally, the less I see of the 
papers the better.  --Bi\\

------------------------------

Date: Saturday, 10 November 1984 21:33:41 EST
From: Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa
To: space@mit-mc.arpa
Subject: Wire stories: yes! 

I too would like to continue to see the news stories. This list is like
a specialty newspaper with a very active letters section. To get the bulk
of the NYT wire stories you'd have to buy the NYT and read their obnoxious
political endorsments. The AP stories are often omitted or truncated by
local papers, or buried in the sports section (about 80% of the paper here
in Pittsburgh).  I buy newspaper whenever there's garbage to wrap (and once
a year to check prices in the 47th street photo ads).
  The real problem is the propriety of using the stories without an explicit
arrangement with the wire services.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

12-Nov-84  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #36
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 36

Today's Topics:
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #33
----------------------------------------------------------------------

	id AA05395; Sat, 10 Nov 84 19:59:36 pst
	id AA06356; Sat, 10 Nov 84 20:00:43 pst
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 84 19:44:09 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an z29-e) <mcgeer%ucbrob@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8411110344.1427@ucbrob.ARPA>
	id AA01427; Sat, 10 Nov 84 19:44:09 pst
To: Carter@RUTGERS.ARPA, WILKINS@SRI-AI.ARPA
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #33
Cc: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA

	Keep those newspaper stories coming.  Those who don't like them can
hit the 'n' key.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

13-Nov-84  0406	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #37
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 37

Today's Topics:
	       Posting of news stories in the SPACE Digest
	       Posting of news stories in the SPACE Digest.
			   SPACE Digest V5 #35
				wire news
			     Wire stories...
			   satellite retrieval
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #34
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #34
	       Can't send to mcgeer directly, so forgive me
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 84 09:04 EST
From: Damouth.Wbst@XEROX.ARPA
Subject: Posting of news stories in the SPACE Digest
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA

In regard to the difference of opinion about posting the long news
stories:  If someone is willing to do a bit of editing, there is a
compromise position.

There is a great deal of redundancy from one story to the next.
Occasionally, only the first few paragraphs are new and the rest of a
long story is boilerplate that has aready been included in earlier
stories.  If the redundant material is removed, the postings will be
considerably shorter, and perhaps everyone will be satisfied, or at
least less unhappy.

/Dave

------------------------------

Date: 12 Nov 84 10:44:05 EST (Monday)
From: Heiny.henr@XEROX.ARPA
Subject: Posting of news stories in the SPACE Digest.
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: , Heiny.henr@XEROX.ARPA

    From: Wilkins <WILKINS at SRI-AI.ARPA>

    There are many long news stories being sent in these digests.
    Most of these are the same stories in our daily papers, and are
    in no way inaccessible or hard to find.  I vote we assume the
    readership of this list reads the paper, and therby cut the
    length of these digests.  David

They may be in YOUR daily papers, but they're most often NOT in either
of mine.  If the local papers do carry them, the stories are usually
severely cut, and/or out of date.  The digest is the best way for many
of us to keep up on such things.

				Hail Eris,
					Chris

PS If you're worried about the length of digests, how about a 200 word
limit on each submission? Since the digest is assembled automatically,
that should be easy to implement. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 1984  01:07 EST
Message-ID: <MINSKY.12062885257.BABYL@MIT-OZ>
From: MINSKY%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA
To:   SPACE@MIT-MC, minsky%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: SPACE Digest V5 #35

I don't read newspapers either.  'Ray for SPACE Digest.
---Minsky

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 12 Nov 84 16:48 EST
From:  Ellman@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA
Subject:  wire news
To:  space@MIT-MC.ARPA
Message-ID:  <841112214841.505555@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>

Yes the wire news stories do contain information not found in
newspapers, but the problem arises when the digest includes more than
one wire story.  The second story repeadt most of the first one and adds
little new.  If they are to be included, they should be edited to avoid
repitition.  Hmm..  I'm also a bit offended when the person who has been
writing these storierefers to Anna Fisher as Mrs.  Fisher and all the
others by their last name only.  Maybe when her husband is flying too,
there will be need for distinction, but this could easily be handled by
placing an initial before the name..  I wouldn't mind if the wire stores
went away.
                                        -nan

------------------------------

Date: Mon 12 Nov 84 11:56:03-EST
From: Vince.Fuller@CMU-CS-C.ARPA
Subject: Wire stories...
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

As another person who does not subscribe to a daily paper (after moving from
Washington, DC to Pittsburgh, I can't seem to find a real newspaper around
here), I would like to continue to see the newswire stories. They are more
convenient and often more complete.

------------------------------

Date: 12 Nov 1984 0919-PST
From: Richard M. King <DKING@KESTREL.ARPA>
Subject: satellite retrieval
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

	Saw the docking at roughly 0630 PST.  Impressive.  It worked so
smoothly that it lacked the drama of last time!

	This, together with Wednesday's retrieval, is a unique event.  I think
we should see to it that channel 5 (CBS I think, but don't quote me) receives
complaints.  If the problem extends beyond the San Francisco area, perhaps
a letter to the network would be justified.

						Dick

------------------------------

Date: 12 Nov 84 08:45:51 PST (Monday)
From: Reed.SV@XEROX.ARPA
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #34
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA

I vote against excluding long new stories. Most of them I don't see in
my local papers, and when I do, they are often edited down quite a bit.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 84 08:27 PST
From: WAHL.ES@XEROX.ARPA
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #34
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: WAHL.ES@XEROX.ARPA

If we're taking votes, I vote against David Wilkins' suggestion that the
newstories be elliminated.  I find them to be a lot of fun and don't see
them elsewhere. 
--Lisa

------------------------------

Date: 12 Nov 1984 2328-PST
From: Rem@IMSSS
Subject: Can't send to mcgeer directly, so forgive me
To:   SPACE%MIT-MC@SCORE

I tried twice to send this to mcgeer individually, but failed, so everybody
else please ignore this message posted via SPACE.

12-Nov-84 20:33:00-PST,2266;000000000001
Mail-from: SU-NET host Score rcvd at 12-Nov-84 2033-PST
Date: 12 November 1984 23:33-EST
From: Communications Satellite <COMSAT @ MIT-MC>
Subject: Msg of Monday, 12 November 1984 23:19-EST
To: REM @ MIT-MC

FAILED: mcgeer%ucbrob@Berkeley at SU-SCORE; Recipient name apparently rejected.
	Last reply was: {500 Syntax error or field too long: RCPT TO:<mcgeer%ucbrob@Berkeley@SU-SCORE>}
 Failed message follows:
-------
Date: 12 November 1984 23:19-EST
From: Robert Elton Maas <REM @ MIT-MC>
To: "mcgeer%ucbrob@Berkeley" @ SU-SCORE

12-Nov-84 14:40:15-PST,1610;000000000000
Mail-from: SU-NET host Score rcvd at 12-Nov-84 1440-PST
	id AA04165; Mon, 12 Nov 84 14:39:48 pst
Date: 12 Nov 1984 1344-PST
From: MAILER-DAEMON@Berkeley (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
Message-Id: <8411122239.AA04165@UCB-VAX.ARPA>
To: <REM%IMSSS.#Pup@SU-SCORE.ARPA>

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 ucbrob".tcp... Deferred: Error 0
550 <\"mcgeer%ucbrob\"@UCB-VAX.ARPA>... Host unknown

   ----- Unsent message follows -----
	id AA04163; Mon, 12 Nov 84 14:39:48 pst
Message-Id: <8411122239.AA04163@UCB-VAX.ARPA>
Date: 12 Nov 1984 1344-PST
From: Rem@IMSSS
Subject: 'n' key??
To: "mcgeer%ucbrob"%Berkeley@SCORE

    Date: Sat, 10 Nov 84 19:44:09 pst
    From: Rick McGeer (on an z29-e) <mcgeer%ucbrob@Berkeley>
	    Keep those newspaper stories coming.  Those who don't like
    them can hit the 'n' key.
I don't know what hitting the 'n' key does on your system, but where I
read mail the 'n' key either moves to the next (older) message without
deleting the one I was looking at (not too useful since I have to come
back and delete it later, meanwhile it occupies disk space), or
inserts the text character 'n' in my edit buffer. Perhaps you should
avoid host-specific jargon in talking to a net-wide mailing list?

-------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

14-Nov-84  0406	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #38
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 38

Today's Topics:
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #34
			 Posting of News Stories
			Re: IEEE magnetic railgun
				   Huh?
	    Re: SPACE Digest V5 #37 (Posting of News Stories)
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #36
		      [Rem@IMSSS: Docking coverage]
			       Wire Stories
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue 13 Nov 84 08:24:31-EST
From: Gern <GUBBINS@RADC-TOPS20.ARPA>
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #34
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA

I vote to keep the many long news stories that are being sent in these
digests.    The net mailings lists ARE my daily newspapers in a way
(sorrow for the killed AP-NEWS-LOVERS).   Most of these stories I would
never see as they are much more informative than what I read in two
local papers.   

<FLAME ON>  If you don't like 'em, don't read 'em.  <FLAME OFF>

Cheers,
Gern

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 84 08:27 EST
From: Seiffer.Henr@XEROX.ARPA
Subject: Posting of News Stories
To: Space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Seiffer.henr@XEROX.ARPA

I vigorously support the editing of the articles before they are posted to
the net.  How about continuing to post the articles until some decision is
made??  I really miss reading the shuttle reports as I don't get to see
them in my local paper.  Is anyone keeping a poll of the responses to the
article posting??  Is anyone going to act on those results??

						Keep Reaching for the Stars,
						Brian

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8411131446.AA01245@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 13-Nov-1984 0944
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Re: IEEE magnetic railgun

   I recall Robert Heinlein using a similar idea in "The Moon Is A Harsh
Mistress".  It was first suggested as "a cheap way to ship massive tonnage
to Luna" during Manuel's and the Prof's visit to earth.  Dr. Chan retorts,
"...  has been proposed many times and always rejected ... Something to do
with air pressure."  Supposedly, "the problem can be solved ... based on
extensive analyses by computer and on our experience with catapulting.
The length of an escape-speed catapult is determined by the acceleration.
... of twenty gravities is about optimum. ... three hundred twenty-three
kilometers in length ... aboveground to permit shock waves to expand.  The
stator would stretch nearly horizontally, rising perhaps four kilometers
in three hundred ...  -almost straight, as Coriolis acceleration and other
minor variables make it a gentle curve."  The story goes on in greater
detail about escape speed being a "scalar" and how to deliver payloads to
Luna.  Heinlein anticipates "Weather would be a problem, too."  There is
nothing explicit about magnetics being used but I think it save to assume
that would be the motive force involved.
	David.

------------------------------

Date: 13 Nov 1984 0841-PST
From: Richard M. King <DKING@KESTREL.ARPA>
Subject: Huh?
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

	Whassa mattah wit ya guys???  The day after the world's first
successful space salvage operation (assuming the bird lands safely) I see
a 7K plus Space Digest - reasonable enough - and I go to read it and see
only one article concerning the salvage, my own, and a dozen arguments 
about news stories on the digest??  

	We should have a special digest for arguments on whether the news
wire stories should be on the main digest.

						Dick

------------------------------

Date: 13 Nov 1984 10:14-PST
Sender: WARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #37 (Posting of News Stories)
From: Craig E. Ward <WARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA>
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Message-ID: <[USC-ISIF.ARPA]13-Nov-84 10:14:02.WARD>

I vote to keep the wire stories coming.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 84 12:45 EST
From: Kovnat.HENR@XEROX.ARPA
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #36
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Kovnat.HENR@XEROX.ARPA

I would like to see the news wire articles continue in the Space
digests.  They often contain more information that what little appears
in our local papers.  It may help to include them at the end of the
digest to help those people who are reading at 300 baud.

Larry

------------------------------

Date: 13 Nov 1984 1049-PST
From: Richard M. King <DKING@KESTREL.ARPA>
Subject: [Rem@IMSSS: Docking coverage]
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

	I apologize for not making my complaint with channel 5 more clear.

	Channel five in the San Francisco Bay Area did nothing.  NADA.  NIL!!
While NASA was providing them (presumably all 3 networks get the same thing)
with high-quality live feed, channel 5 gave out its usual Monday morning 
drivel while channel 4 gave live coverage and even usually let the 
astronauts do the talking!

	Of course I have no way of knowing whether the problem is with KPIX
or with CBS.

						Dick

		       ---------------

Return-path: <Mailer@KESTREL.ARPA>
Date: 13 Nov 1984 1003-PST
From: Rem@IMSSS
Subject: Docking coverage
To:   DKING%KESTREL@SCORE

    Date: 12 Nov 1984 0919-PST
    From: Richard M. King <DKING@KESTREL.ARPA>
    Subject: satellite retrieval
	    Saw the docking at roughly 0630 PST.  Impressive.  It worked so
    smoothly that it lacked the drama of last time!
I lost track of time and was sleeping at the time and had to see it
later on evening news broadcast.
	    This, together with Wednesday's retrieval, is a unique
    event.  I think we should see to it that channel 5 (CBS I think,
    but don't quote me) receives complaints.
Why, because they didn't add artificial suspense or something, they
just showed it the way it really was? What is your complaint?
    If the problem extends beyond the San Francisco area, perhaps
    a letter to the network would be justified.

P.s. I currently am mostly boycotting channels 5 20 and 2 because of
one or more of the following:
  Vulgar ad "knock to the noodle and blow to the bra" using hints of
    sexual violence against women to sell their product;
  Annoying ad several times per hour to spend 50 cents per call to get
    an astrological forecast.

(Yes, channel 5, KPIX, is CBS-affiliated.)

By the way, I'm pissed off that all three major networks are
effectively boycotting everyone like me with B&W television sets. You
see, on election night they put Reagan in red and Mondale in some
other color of exactly equal B&W intensity, so the chart was totally
meaningless except for the states in white which weren't yet
predicted. (One network, NBC or CBS I forget had non-predicted states
in gray or somesuch, making it even worse than ABC.)
-------
-------

------------------------------

I'm keeping track of the tally of these messages and they are running
strongly infavor of continuing the service with some sentiment for
editing.  David Rabahy asked me what should be done and I told him to
continue.  I presume this will happen at his convenience.
	Cheers,
	Ted Anderson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 1984 14:02:21 EST
From: Macintosh Devaluation Manager <AXLER%upenn-1100.csnet (Macintosh Devaluation Manager)@csnet-relay.arpa>
Subject: Wire Stories
To: ota@s1-a.ARPA

I'm all for eliminating the newspaper stories.  Not only do they take up space
and time, but we're effectively condoning theft by permitting their reprint on
the net -- a mere reproduction of the copyright notice is not the payment of
royalty that the author and/or wire service actually should be receiving.

Dave Axler

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

15-Nov-84  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #39
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 39

Today's Topics:
			    Needed : Star data
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:       Tue, 13 Nov 84 15:55:46 EST
From:       "Bob Czech" <939@NJIT-EIES.MAILNET>
To:         SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject:    Needed : Star data
Message-ID: <M19.7739@NJIT-EIES.MAILNET>

A few months back I remember there being some talk about getting data
files containing star data.  Well, I just so happen to need such data and
would like to know where I can get it.  Either reply here or privately.

                        Bob Czech
                        BMC%NJIT-EIES.MAILNET@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

16-Nov-84  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #40
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 40

Today's Topics:
			      News and space
		 Winds aloft & their effect on spacecraft
		    More electromagnetic launchers...
			       star catalog
			The Shadow of the Asteroid
			      Space Stations
			  Satellite Data needed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu 15 Nov 84 11:08:47-PST
From: Wilkins  <WILKINS@SRI-AI.ARPA>
Subject: News and space
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

OK. All right.  Keep the news stories, but please do not send me any
more messages about how you do not read newspapers as I'm getting
overwhelmed.  I certainly agree that the news shold be available
electronically, but those who have access to the news wires
electronically (as I do) do not also need to see the stories a third
time (I also read the paper).

I was amazed at how many people claim the stories in this digest are
their only source of news since they do not take/believe in/can
stomach newspapers.  While I am as down on the media as the next
person, I find it hard to believe that someone can remain well
informed about the world, especially the political environment that
we are (hopefully) working to change in order to see space colonized,
with no other input than the stories on this digest.  I hope we're
not all the type who want to discuss space in our ivory towers,
insulated from the world, not knowing how the rest of the world
thinks or how to bring our goals about politically.

Keep those stories coming, David

------------------------------

Date:     Thu, 15 Nov 84 9:09:30 CST
From:     Will Martin -- AMXAL-RI <wmartin@ALMSA-1.ARPA>
To:       space@Mit-Mc.ARPA
Subject:  Winds aloft & their effect on spacecraft

Reference the recent postings about the launch delays caused by high-velocity
variable winds at altitude: How is this problem treated in regards to 
military spacecraft (ICBM's, etc.) which do not have the luxury of postponement
when such conditions exist, yet mission requirements dictate launching?

Do they just accept that n% of a strike launch will be destroyed (or, worse
yet, moved wildly off-course) by high winds aloft if such winds happen to
be occurring during a launch? Or are the missles built to withstand greater
shear forces than something like the shuttle or a satellite-launch vehicle
can take?

Will Martin

ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA     USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin

------------------------------

Date: 15 Nov 84 08:26:33 EST
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: More electromagnetic launchers...
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

A calculus problem concerning EM launchers:

The cost of a launch is going to be driven mainly by capital costs of
the launcher + power supply.  This costs scales (at constant acceleration)
linearly with launched mass and as the square of the launch velocity.
It makes sense to put a rocket engine in the launched object, since you'll
need to be able to correct for velocity errors at launch, and you'll
want the payload to be able to home in on its destination in orbit.
As long as the rocket is attached you might as well use it as an upper
stage (with the EM launcher as the first stage).

Using the rocket as an upper stage, we get Vem velocity from the launcher
and Vrocket velocity from the engine.  Assuming the engine has a specific
impulse of I, and ignoring engine and fuel tank weight, how big should
Vem and Vrocket be so (1) Vrocket + Vem = 11 km/sec, and (2) launch
costs (= constant x Vem^2 x [Payload mass + Fuel Mass]) are minimized?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 84 13:51:50 EST
From: Dick Koolish <koolish@bbn-cd.arpa>
From: Ron Tencati <TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA>
Subject: star catalog
To: space@mit-mc.arpa

----BEGINNING OF FORWARDED MESSAGES----
Date:     Mon, 10 Sep 84 11:14:40 CDT
From: Mike Caplinger <mike@rice.ARPA>
Subject: small star database
To: cbosgd!djb@Berkeley.ARPA (David J. Bryant)
Cc: sky-fans@mit-xx.ARPA

As a couple of people told me, the Yale Catalog of Bright Stars is
online in the CP/M archives on Simtel-20.  According to the
documentation, this catalog is in the public domain.  It contains
information for about ~9000 stars, and is slightly less than 2
megabytes long.

To get it, anonymous FTP to host SIMTEL-20, and retrieve
MICRO:<SIGM.VOL031>STAR.DOC, and the eight files
MICRO:<SIGM.VOL03n>STARn.DAT, n = 1 to 8

(It's in eight separate files because it was originally distributed on
floppy disk.)

These are text files, and the format is explained in the documentation
file.

By the way, SIMTEL-20 doesn't do directory listings over FTP for these
directories.

	- Mike

----END OF FORWARDED MESSAGES----

------------------------------

Date: 15 Nov 1984 1210-PST
From: Richard M. King <DKING@KESTREL.ARPA>
Subject: The Shadow of the Asteroid
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

I recall that several months ago a 200KM or so asteroid was due to pass in
front of a certain star, as seen from some points in the US.  People were
being asked to record precise occultation times.

Does anyone have the results of this or know where such can be found?

						Dick

------------------------------

Date: Thu 15 Nov 84 18:34:53-EST
From: Martin J Mahoney <US.MJM%CU20B@COLUMBIA.ARPA>
Subject: Space Stations
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

I read in the New York Times yesterday that a Congressional committee
said , and i paraphrase,  That the space station as conceived by NASA is too 
ambitious and it lacks clearly defined goals and it cost too much.  And that
the only reason NASA is pushing it is to maintain a large budget.  The conceed
however some structure in space is needed but they want more studying done.


I think it might be a wise idea for us who are in favor of such a station
to notify our congressional representatives of such, and that we would
not look very favorably on their voting against it.

The time for studying is over the time for action has begun.

Martin

P.S.  If enough people want to see the actual text of the article I'll 
be willing to type it in.

Martin

------------------------------

Date: 15 Nov 84 18:56:04 EST
From: BIESEL@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: Satellite Data needed.
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: biesel@RUTGERS.ARPA

I'd appreciate any pointers to machine readable data, either online or
on tape, which will give me the orbital elements of the moons of all the
planets. High precision data would be especially welcome, as would
orbital elements of some asteroids.
	Regards,
		Pete.
-------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

17-Nov-84  0432	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #41
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 41

Today's Topics:
			  Newspaper non-readers
				moonshine
				M-objects
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri 16 Nov 84 09:22:02-EST
From: J. Noel Chiappa <JNC@MIT-XX.ARPA>
Subject: Newspaper non-readers
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: JNC@MIT-XX.ARPA

	This may be a bit off track for space, but it was prompted by
the first message in today's digest. I have a different concern. I
find it a bit discouraging that people are so turned off that they
don't make any attempt to try and find reasonable newspapers. I have
spent portions of my life in places where 'good' papers were not
available easily, and I always managed to hunt up something.  These
days, things are moving so fast, etc, that it almost seems a necessity
(ley alone the duty of a citizen, to use a hackneyed phrase) to keep
up with what is going on. I can understand the mass of people turning
off because it's out of their speed, but when people at our level
start doing it I think real trouble can't be far off.
		Noel

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 84 16:07:51 EST
From: Craig MacFarlane <cmacfarl@BBNCCJ.ARPA>
Subject: moonshine
To: space@mit-mc.arpa

Hello,
	Does anybody out there know what light frequencies are
   reflected by the moon?  Also, if the phases effect more than
   just the amount...
					Thanks,
					[raig

------------------------------

Date: Fri 16 Nov 84 15:31:51-CST
From: Larry Smith <CMP.LSMITH@UTEXAS-20.ARPA>
Subject: M-objects
To: space@UTEXAS-20.ARPA

Can someone give me a pointer to a list of the Messier objects and
their locations?

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

18-Nov-84  0402	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #42
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 42

Today's Topics:
			    Reading Newspapers
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun 18 Nov 84 00:58:16-PST
From: Bob Larson <BLARSON@ECLD.#ECLnet>
Subject: Reading Newspapers
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

I am another person who does not read the newspapers and likes seeing the
clippings in SPACE digest.  I also do not watch the sunrise every day to see
if it is still there.  (I can't stay up that late much anymore since I have
a full time job.)  I have absolutely no interest if the Dogers beat the 
Raiders in a hockey game.  When someone starts a cheap, fully automated
clipping service (probably electronically) then the need for the news articles
in SPACE will be gone.  Currently it's cheaper to get 10 pounds of paper each
weak for the possibility of one or two interesting articles.  I have better
things to do with my time, such as reading my science fiction collection.
If the world ends, I'll eventually find out about it.

Bob Larson <Blarson@Usc-Ecl.Arpa>
-------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

19-Nov-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #43
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 43

Today's Topics:
			alternatives to newspapers
			    Job Opportunities
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:     Sun, 18 Nov 84 16:51:25 EST
From:     Joe Pistritto <jcp@BRL-TGR.ARPA>
To:       Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject:  alternatives to newspapers

	I too prefer getting the articles in SPACE digest, however,
I have a better solution the news problem than reading newspapers,
(AUGH! poundage with editorial slant thrown in), listen to the BBC
They have a 'short' (7 minute) or so summary of all the important!!
stuff, and there are NO commercials, its on every hour (about 22/day).
Try 6175Khz some evening...

						-JCP-

------------------------------

Date: 18 Nov 84 16:46:51 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Job Opportunities
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

         Possible Job Opportunities in Space Development

     Interested in working on the design of space systems for the 
1990's and beyond?  Are you looking for challenging opportunities 
to  work on concepts such as second-generation  shuttles,  heavy-
lift launch vehicles, orbital transfer vehicles, space platforms, 
and  lunar  base?  Several new openings may be occuring in  early 
1985   at  Rockwell  International's  STS  Division  in   Downey, 
California.  We are interested in receiving resumes from  persons 
who  would  be  willing  to  work  in  the  Advanced  Engineering 
Department on issues crucial to long-term space development;  and  
we need to know if we can actually staff these projects. 

     Ideally,   candidates   would   be  trained   in   aerospace 
engineering  with  strong backgrounds in economics or  operations 
research.  We  welcome inquiries from persons with a  variety  of 
quantitative backgrounds (B.S.  or B.A.  degree minimum, master's 
or  higher  preferred)  however,   such  as  physics,  chemistry, 
mathematics,   biology,   behaviorial  sciences,  engineering  or 
economics.  We  need  competant,  well-rounded  generalists  with 
vision  to work on the technical,  and economic details of  space 
development.  Preference  may   be  given to members  of  the  L5 
Society,    National   Space   Institute,   or   other   activist 
organizations.

     Send inquiries to:

          Wally McClure/Scott Pace
          Rockwell International 041-AA96
          12214 Lakewood Blvd.
          Downey, CA 90241

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

20-Nov-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #44
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 44

Today's Topics:
			      Re: M-objects
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 19 Nov 84 13:08:44 PST (Monday)
From: lynn.es@XEROX.ARPA
Subject: Re: M-objects
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: lynn.es@XEROX.ARPA

I have a list of the Messier objects on line, which I can send in a
lengthy message to anyone interested.  All I need is an address
reachable through Arpanet.
/Don Lynn

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

21-Nov-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #45
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 45

Today's Topics:
		      Re: The Shadow of the Asteroid
			       Re: M-object
			Shuttle audio-rebroadcast
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 20 Nov 84 11:34:01 PST (Tuesday)
From: lynn.es@XEROX.ARPA
Subject: Re: The Shadow of the Asteroid
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: DKING@KESTREL.ARPA, lynn.es@XEROX.ARPA

"I recall that several months ago a 200KM or so asteroid was due to pass
in front of a certain star, as seen from some points in the US ... Does
anyone have the results of this or know where such can be found?"

I have checked the last two issues of the quarterly newsletter of the
International Occultation Timing Association (IOTA, address: P.O. Box
3392, Columbus, Ohio 43210-0392) for reports of observed asteroid
occultations of stars.  This organization puts out lists of predictions
of such events ahead of time and then collects observations.  

Unfortunately the geometry of the situation makes it so that even with
well-tracked asteroids and well-measured stars the typical error in
prediction of the point on earth to observe the event is roughly 1000
miles.  High accuracy measurements of a single photograph of both
objects (which can only be taken days ahead as they approach) can reduce
the error to under a hundred miles.  This tells you why in the last
issue, reports were made of attempts to observe 31 events (not counting
cloud-outs) and only 6 occultations were actually seen.  Only one of
those was in the USA, and that was asteroid Interamnia (diameter about
300 km) on August 5.  That was only seen by one observer.  It takes
observations by two or more to get accurate asteroid sizes, and by
dozens to get accurate asteroid shapes.  

The previous issue of the newsletter gave 40 attempts, 4 positive
occultation sightings, and 3 possible ones (might have been cloud
effects).  None of the sightings were in the USA.  So I don't think I
can identify the particular event that the question refers to.  

It is possible that it refers to one of last year's events.  There were
two events observed in the USA by many persons last year, resulting in
good size and shape data.  They were asteroids Pallas (diameter about
520 km) and Nemausa (169 x 121 km.  Note that a few years ago the
diameter was believed to about 73 km).  The results were written up in
Sky & Telescope, p. 270 Sept. 83, and p. 576 Dec. 83.  Some results from
the previous year, and predictions for the next are published in Sky &
Telescope every January issue (p. 60-61 in January 84).

/Don Lynn

------------------------------

Date: 20 Nov 84 18:07:44 PST (Tuesday)
From: lynn.es@XEROX.ARPA
Subject: Re: M-object
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: lynn.es@XEROX.ARPA, Richard M. King <DKING@KESTREL.ARPA>

Since I have been asked what the M-objects are ... if you know, read no
farther --

M stands for Messier, a famous French astronomer of the late 1700s.  As
part of his interest in comets, he began collecting a list of objects in
the sky that looked like comets but weren't, such as galaxies or distant
clusters that could be seen only as a diffuse glow, not as separate
stars.  Eventually, he became interested in all non-stellar objects
(which includes ones that are really stars, but are not completely
resolvable as such in a small telescope).  His list of 103 non-stellar
objects got published in parts in a French astronomical journal, and
that is the Messier list.  For various reasons, a few objects have been
added or thrown out, so modern copies of the list have from 99 to 114
objects in them.  

Messier's work inspired Herschel, who with a much bigger telescope, made
a list of thousands of such objects.  After Herschel's list, and
subsequent revisions, Messier's list lost significance, until modern
times when amateur astronomers with small telescopes found Messier's
list to be just what they needed for fun star gazing.  The list contains
a supernova remnant, several globular star clusters, several open star
clusters, a few emission nebulae, a star cloud (bright patch of milky
way), a reflection nebula, a few planetary nebulae, a couple of mistakes
(stars, but no nebulosity), and a whole bunch of galaxies.

/Don Lynn

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8411210256.AA29483@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: 20-Nov-1984 2156
From: rabahy%castor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (David Rabahy)
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Shuttle audio-rebroadcast
 
================================================================================
  TOPS32::MARKS                Space Shuttle News            20-NOV-1984 13:18  
  Note #26              -< Shuttle audio on shortwave >-          No responses  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
The amateur radio club at the Goddard Spaceflight center in Maryland
(callsign WA3NAN) rebroadcasts the shuttle audio from a NASA feed
for most (if not all) missions. If you have a shortwave radio
listen on the following frequencies:
 
	3860 KHZ
	7185 KHZ
	14295 KHZ
	21390 KHZ (maybe)
 
For this area the 3860 freq is best during the hours of darkness, and
7185 or 14295 during the day, depending on propagation conditions.
The transmissions are all SSB (not AM) so you may not be able to
copy them on all radios, but any amateur or shortwave listing receiver
will have no trouble - the WA3NAN rigs put out a terrific signal.
 
/Maurice (KV1D)

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

22-Nov-84  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #46
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 46

Today's Topics:
			       Re: M-object
			     Space Telescope
----------------------------------------------------------------------

	id AA28803; Wed, 21 Nov 84 09:49:13 pst
	id AA25328; Wed, 21 Nov 84 09:49:33 pst
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 84 09:49:33 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8411211749.AA25328@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: lynn.es@XEROX.ARPA, Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Re: M-object
Cc: DKING@KESTREL.ARPA

	"As part of his interest in comets", foo.  The extended story is a
little better.  What happened was that Messier kept discovering "comets" and
getting very excited; each time, after he had observed the "comet" for a
week or so, he discovered that the object was stationary with respect to the
fixed stars. Hence, no comet.  AFter this had happened a fiar number of
times, he decided to make a list of these annoying comet-like objects, so
that he and future comet-hunters  wouldn't be fooled again, at least not by
the same objects.

	This is almost as good as the story of Olber's paradox, which I'll
write up if sufficient numbers of people request it.  Write to me, not the
net, if you either do/don't want to hear the story of Olber...

						Rick.

------------------------------

Date: 21 Nov 1984 at 1329-EST
Subject: Space Telescope
From: jim at TYCHO.ARPA  (James B. Houser)
To: space at mit-mc

        A couple of weeks ago I attended a lecture at the  Space  Telescope
Institute.  It  did  not leave me with a very comfortable feeling about the
project.  The program has several major problems and a  plethora  of  minor
ones.  The big concerns include long delays in assembling a high resolution
star map, and an extremely tight pointing and  tracking  requirement.  They
also  appear  to be not addressing a number of smaller issues such as light
emmisions by  platform  materials  (as  detected  on  the  shuttle).  These
things, added to the persistant rumours about problems at Perkin Elmer tend
to make me somewhat less than optimistic.  On the  good  side,  if  it  all
comes together the Institute seems to have put together a good organization
for operating the telescope research effort. Look for at least a six month
delay in launching.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

23-Nov-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #47
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 47

Today's Topics:
			      Space Business
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thursday, 22 November 1984 14:12:31 EST
From: Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa
To: space@s1-a.arpa
Subject: Space Business
Message-ID: <1984.11.22.19.10.48.Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa>


n115  2226  20 Nov 84
AM-NASA
By PHILIP M. BOFFEY
c.1984 N.Y. Times News Service
    WASHINGTON - The National Aeronautics and Space Administration
Tuesday announced a new policy designed to speed commercial use of
space. It described the move as the next major step in the American
space program.
    The policy document sets forth a series of plans to expand private
investment in space activities and to reduce the technical, financial
and institutional risks of doing business in space.
    ''The new chapter in the U.S. space program that opened early in
this decade with the first flights of the shuttle is now reaching a
new phase,'' the document says. ''Space technology is ripe for its
transition from exploration to major exploitation, from
experimentation to expanded profitable commercial uses.''
    The agency's new ''Commercial Use of Space Policy'' is intended to
carry out a broad national space commercialization policy announced
July 20 by President Reagan, who exulted that the benefits of space
commercialization ''literally dazzle the imagination.'' It also
follows through on recent congressional legislation that directed the
agency to seek and encourage the fullest commercial use of space.
    The space agency said it would reduce the financial risks of doing
business in space by offering reduced-rate flights in the research
and development phases of commercial products and by providing seed
financing for commercial ventures.
    It will also cut the time needed to integrate commercial payloads
into the shuttle flight schedule to six months and will let the
commercial concern decide how much reliability should be built into
the payload hardware.
    The agency said it would reduce technical risks by aggressively
supporting and conducting ''research directly aimed at enhancing and
encouraging commercial space endeavors'' and by easing commercial
access to the space agency's own experimental facilities, among other
steps.
    Perhaps its most imaginative research initiative is a plan to
establish several advanced research institutes, operated jointly by
the agency and by industry or academic sponsors, to perform research
on materials that might be used or manufactured in space and on other
processes of potential commercial significance. Industry would be
expected to share in the financing.
    To reduce institutional risks, the agency said it would remove
various bureaucratic impediments and maintain more conistent policies
toward the commercialization of space.
    The new policy is being supervised by the newly established Office
of Commercial Programs under the direction of Isaac T. Gillam 4th,
the space agency's assistant administrator for commercial programs.
    
nyt-11-21-84 0122est
***************

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

24-Nov-84  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #48
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 48

Today's Topics:
				L5 Society
			  Pgh L5 Bulliten Board
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sender:  Tague@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA
Date:  Wed, 21 Nov 84 22:59 MST
From:  Tague%pco@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA
Subject:  L5 Society
To:  Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Message-ID:  <841122055951.647352@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA>

How can I find out more about the L5 Society?  Can they be contacted
over the ARPANet?  -Michael

------------------------------

Date: 23 Nov 84 16:09:56 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Pgh L5 Bulliten Board
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

Pittsburgh L5 has just brought a CBB online. Anyone who wishes to connect
may dial 412-366-9066 and leave messages for anyone in our group. We have
hopes that this communications net will expand as there are several other
tentative chapter BBoards in the winds, as well as a committee to study L5
computer communications in general. The committee was formed at the
Northeast Regional Conference here in October.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

25-Nov-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #49
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 49

Today's Topics:
			      Xmas sky show 
				Pgh BBoard
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 24 Nov 84  1232 PST
From: Ron Goldman <ARG@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: Xmas sky show 
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

n123  2214  23 Nov 84
BC-HUMANITIES-(Balt.)
     By Albert Sehlstedt, Jr.
    c. 1984 The Baltimore Sun
    
     Greenbelt, Md. - Scientists plan to create a chartreuse ''comet''
72,000 miles above the atmosphere Christmas morning as part of an
experiment to study the effects of the sun's energy on the Earth's
environs.
     The comet, visible in the western United States but not in the
East, will consist of barium vapor released from one of three
satellites which have been studying the interaction of the solar wind
with the Earth's magnetosphere.
     The solar wind, blowing at a million miles an hour, is an
outpouring of electrified particles from the sun that continuously
interact with the magnetosphere, a broad region around the globe
influenced by the Earth's magnetic field.
     Scientists believe the on-rush of the solar wind against the
magnetic field may affect the world's weather in ways not yet fully
understood.
     If the skies are clear Christmas morning, the man-made comet should
be visible at 4:18 A.M. PST for 10 to 20 minutes west of a line
extending northward from Mexico City and running through Houston, St.
Louis, Mo., and Milwaukee, according to the National Aeronautics and
Space Administration..
     People as far west as Hawaii should be able to see the yellow-green
cloud, which will appear to be about one-sixth the diameter of the
moon.
     The barium cloud will not be visible in the East because the sky
will be too bright at that hour -  7:18 A.M., EST.
     One of the necessary conditions for seeing the barium comet is
darkness on the ground and sunlight on the comet, explained Dr. Mario
H. Acuna, a physicist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center here.
     Dr. Acuna said the Christmas morning release of the barium vapor
was selected to satisfy several scientific and technical demands - 
including clear observations of the comet by big telescopes at the
Kitt Peak observatory near Tucson, Ariz., and at Palomar Mountain,
Calif.
     He and his associates call the barium cloud a comet because they
expect it to develop a long tail and move across the sky as a natural
comet would. However, unlike the real comets which orbit the sun, it
will be visible for only a few minutes.
     The ''intent'' of the experiment, he continued ''is to study how a
dense, cold plasma electrified gas interacts with the solar wind.''
     That kind of an interaction ''is representative of situations that
occur elsewhere in the solar system,'' the Goddard physicist
explained.
     Jupiter and Saturn, for example, also have magnetospheres.
     The Christmas comet experiment is part of a larger space physics
study involving three satellites of three nations, the United States,
West Germany and Britain. The three craft were launched into orbit by
the same Delta rocket August 16 at Cape Canaveral, Fla.
     The Christmas experiment will begin when the German craft releases
the barium at a point in the sky that approximates the the outer
boundary of the magnetosphere - some 72,000 miles above the Earth.
     The release will be analyzed by instruments aboard the British
satellite, which will be another orbit traveling three minutes behind
the German craft, and by the American satellite, in a third orbit.
     Dr. Acuna and his associates have pointed out that one advantage of
the test is the fact that the scientists are experimenting with a
known quantity of a particularly substance, as would be done in a
conventional laboratory.
     Most previous experiments in space have been observations of
entirely natural phenomena that occur independently of human activity
and are, therefore, less readily understood.
     The three-satllite study was conceived by Dr. S. M. Kremigis, a
scientist at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory,
in collaboration with researchers at Germany's Max Planck Institute
for Extraterrestrial Physics.
     End Humanities.
    
    
nyt-11-24-84 0110est
***************

------------------------------

Date: 24 Nov 84 16:00:24 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Pgh BBoard
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

Due to some technical difficulties (ie the well known mismated cables)
the Pgh L5 bboard startup has been delayed until Sun 11/25/84. If any
furthur difficulties arise, I'll keep you all posted.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

28-Nov-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #50
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 50

Today's Topics:
			     ERROR, ERROR!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 27 Nov 84 11:52:03 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: ERROR, ERROR!!!
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

Sorry folks, but the original number promised by the phone company was
changed by the time our system went in, and no one bothered to tell me:

CBB			412-366-6099

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

29-Nov-84  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #51
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 51

Today's Topics:
			  the story of Olbers...
			   More Strangeness...
				  HOTOL
			     Obler's paradox
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 84 12:49:03 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8411282049.AA16403@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: the story of Olbers...

	In response to numerous requests, here is the story of Olbers....

	Messier and Olbers didn't know each other, as far as I know, and
their stories are pretty well unrelated, except: (1) they were more-or-less
contemporaries; (2) they were both comet and/or planet hunters; (3) They
were both frustrated in their principal ambitions; and (4) they became
famous for work they considered minor and/or foolish.

	We all know about Messier and his famous list of annoying false
comets.  Olbers story is a little different. He actually did discover 5
minor comets, one of which bears his name.  He also was a member of the
German consortium that was organized to search for Ceres (the consortium
that was beaten, oddly enough, by an Italian comet-hunter named Giuseppe
Piazzi, who was - you guessed it - not looking for Kepler's suspected planet
but rather for comets).  In any case, Olbers in his disappointment decided to
amuse himself with idle speculation.  Let us, he said, assume:

	(1) The universe is infinite in extent;
	(2) The stars are spread evely throughout the universe;
	(3) In any given volume of the universe, the average luminescence of
	stars is about the same.

	Now, at the time, all of these assumptions looked pretty good.  But
what was the conclusions?  Well, Olbers said, consider the amount of light
delivered to the earth by the stars at a given distance r.  The first thing
to note is hat they have an average luminosity l, which by assumption 3 is
invariant wrt r: hence the total light delivered is nl/r^2, where n is the
total number of stars at distance r.  By assumption (2), n = kr^2, where k
is some constant.  Hence the total light delivered is kr^2l/r^2, or kl: *not
dependent on r*.  Hence, the total light delivered by all the stars at some
distance r from the earth is a constant kl.  Hence the total light delivered
to earth is: integral from 0 to R kl dr, or klR where R is the radius of the
universe.  But assumption (1) says that R is infinite, and hence *the total
amount of light delivered to the earth should be infinite*.  This does not
only mean that you should be able to read a newspaper by the light of the
silvery sky at night.  Nosiree.  If Olbers' reasoning really was correct,
then we'd be fried, parboiled, cooked...

	So where did Olbers go wrong?  Or, better put, what assumption is
wrong and why?  All three assumptions turn out to be wrong, but which one is
critical turns out to be surprising.  I will send out a letter tomorrow,
detailing not only the right ansswer (why Olbers was wrong), but also giving
the story of the false leads that were pursued.  More later...

							Rick.

------------------------------

Date: 28 Nov 84 17:00:07 EST
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: More Strangeness...
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

There is an article in the Dec. 1 Physical Review (page 2379) by Farhi and
Jaffe called "Strange Matter".  Their rough calculations suggest that bulk
quark matter with approximately equal numbers of u,d and s quarks is absolutely
stable.  If such matter exists, it won't be easy to detect on earth, since
any piece more than about 5 angstroms across (massing about 5e-7 grams)
could not be supported by atomic forces against gravity.  Larger chunks
would sink right to the center of the earth (or pass right through).

If these junks are common they are very likely inside asteroids, and could be
retrieved by simply nudging the asteroid to one side.  Large enough
chunks could supply real gravity (no centrifugal force nonsense), and
energy could be produced by bombarding the chunks with neutrons or, possibly,
medium energy protons.

This could be the most important reason yet for going into space.
-------

------------------------------

Date: 28 Nov 84 16:52:09 EST
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: HOTOL
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

According to New Scientist magazine (Nov. 15, page 3) British Aerospace is
working on two reusable launcher designs for use starting in the 1990's.
The launchers, called Mach 3 and HOTOL (HOrizontal Take Off and Landing)
will carry seven tonne payloads in LEO.

Both vehicles would take off and land horizontally, and could fly with or
without astronauts.  Neither would jettison fuel tanks.

Mach 3 would have two disposable solid rocket boosters similar to those
used on the Ariane 3, along with internal LH/LOX tanks and closed cycle
cryogenic engines.  Mach 3 is a development vehicle for HOTOL, which
would be full reusable.  According to New Scientist, Rolls-Royce has
designed air breathing engines for HOTOL that are, unfortunately,
classified.

BAe hopes to charge 4 million pounds per HOTOL launch, or about $700 per
payload kilogram.  Mach 3 would be more expensive.  Development costs for
the two vehicles (together) are estimated at 4,000 million pounds.

------------------------------

Date: 28 Nov 1984 20:18:17-EST
From: Hans.Moravec@CMU-RI-ROVER
To: space@s1-a
Subject: Obler's paradox

By an amazing co-incidence there is a nice long article by E. R. Harrison
in the November 23 Science, titled "The Dark Night-Sky Riddle: A 'Paradox'
That Resisted Solution" (pp 941-945) for those that want to supplement
their electronic reading.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

30-Nov-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #52
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 52

Today's Topics:
	       FCC Denies Extraterrestrial Paging Proposal
----------------------------------------------------------------------

   11:51:05 CST
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 84 09:49:26 PST
From:   David Alpern  <ALPERN%SJRLVM4.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA>
To:  Space@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: FCC Denies Extraterrestrial Paging Proposal

    On August 7, 1984, Beeple, Inc.  d/b/a On Page Enterprises
    (On-Page) filed a request for Special Temporary Authority to
    operate a common carrier one-way paging station at Sudbury,
    Massachusetts on 900 MHz reserve frequency 930.0125 MHz.  The
    purpose of this is to offer specialized extraterrestrial
    communications service to the public.  On-Page proposes to
    transmit binary digitized radio messages of 25 words or less,
    photographs or drawings, "to the Sun, the Moon, any of the
    planets in our solar system, or any designated star outside
    the solar system." The message to be transmitted by On-Page
    would be provided by its customers.  A copy of the
    transmission would be mailed to a recipient specified by the
    customer.

    The Common Carrier Bureau has denied On-Page's request,
    noting that they had not demonstrated that extraordinary
    circumstances exist requiring temporary operations in the
    public interest or that delay in the institution of such
    temporary operations would seriously prejudice the public
    interest.  On-Page's request will be treated as an
    application for developmental authority and has been assigned
    File No.  24719-CD-P/L-84.  An amendment to the application
    was filed on September 11, 1984

    --FCC Public Notice issued September 1, 1984.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

01-Dec-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #53
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 53

Today's Topics:
			Re: the story of Olbers...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 30 Nov 84 14:10:54 PST (Friday)
From: lynn.es@XEROX.ARPA
Subject: Re: the story of Olbers...
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: lynn.es@XEROX.ARPA, mcgeer%ucbkim@UCB-VAX.ARPA

McGeer tells the Olbers story well, but in defense of Messier, I should
point out that he was a bona fide success at comet hunting, and was
recognized as such in his time.  As McGeer mentions, NOW comet hunting
is not what he is remembered for, and one might mistakenly assume that
Messier wasn't much of a comet finder.  He discovered 21 comets, though
some were also independently discovered by others, and by today's
well-defined rules of discovery and announcement, he is usually credited
with 15.  That puts him among the greatest comet hunters.  And he almost
certainly would have found one more that was discovered at another
observatory while Messier stayed with his wife the night she died.  He
was said to have deeply regretted that decision.

Just because Messier set records for finding non-comets doesn't mean he
missed the real ones.  Sort of like Babe Ruth setting both the
strike-out records and the home-run records.

/Don Lynn

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

03-Dec-84  0402	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #54
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 54

Today's Topics:
			Re: the story of Olbers...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 53

Today's Topics:
			Re: the story of Olbers...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 30 Nov 84 14:10:54 PST (Friday)
From: lynn.es@XEROX.ARPA
Subject: Re: the story of Olbers...
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: lynn.es@XEROX.ARPA, mcgeer%ucbkim@UCB-VAX.ARPA

McGeer tells the Olbers story well, but in defense of Messier, I should
point out that he was a bona fide success at comet hunting, and was
recognized as such in his time.  As McGeer mentions, NOW comet hunting
is not what he is remembered for, and one might mistakenly assume that
Messier wasn't much of a comet finder.  He discovered 21 comets, though
some were also independently discovered by others, and by today's
well-defined rules of discovery and announcement, he is usually credited
with 15.  That puts him among the greatest comet hunters.  And he almost
certainly would have found one more that was discovered at another
observatory while Messier stayed with his wife the night she died.  He
was said to have deeply regretted that decision.

Just because Messier set records for finding non-comets doesn't mean he
missed the real ones.  Sort of like Babe Ruth setting both the
strike-out records and the home-run records.

/Don Lynn

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

05-Dec-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #55
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 55

Today's Topics:
			Re: the story of Olbers...
			 OTA Civilian Space Study
	 five good reason for vigorous u.s. involvement in space
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Dec 84 18:17:40 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8412030217.AA04191@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: lynn.es@XEROX.ARPA, Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Re: the story of Olbers...
Cc: mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley, lynn.es@XEROX.ARPA

	The story of Olbers, Part II.  Sorry it's been awhile,  but it's the
end of term and I have Stuff To Do.

	In any case, didn't mean to imply the Messier was a failed
comet-hunter.  Obviously anyone diligent enough to compile the list of
M-objects is enough of an observer to have bagged a few comets.  Olbers, by
the way, discovered five comets himself, one of which bears his name.

	I haven't seen the Science article, by the way, but its title really
is appropriate - Olbers' was a paradox that just wouldn't die.  Herschel
thought he'd killed it off by drawing a picture of a finite universe (what
we now know as the galaxy), which, readers of the original article may
remember, knocks out Olbers' first assumption: namely, that the universe is
infinite, or, alternatively, the stars are spread evenly throughout the
universe.

	And there the matter stayed until 1927; the universe was finite,
hence the earth received a finite amount of light.  Hence no paradox. But in
1927 Hubble discovered stars in Andromeda, and established that Andromeda
was another galaxy 4 billion light years away.   Soon enough other galaxies
were discovered so that it could fairly be assumed that an infinite number
of galaxies were spread evenly throughout the Universe, and suddenly Olbers'
paradox was back in business again, with galaxies in place of stars.

	Oh.  So what now?

	Various people pointed out that General Relativity described a
finite but expanding universe, and hence the universe would still be finite.
However, further calculation showed that due to the Lorentz contraction
(which claims that the length of a moving object is foreshortened in the
direction of travel), a finite universe could still hold and infinite
number of galaxies, most of them (paper-thin) in the last few miles of the
universe-sphere.  In fact, sophisticated readers will note that the effect
gets slightly worse, since the number of galaxies increases faster than the
square of the radius; hence the earth would receive more, not less light,
from the outer shells of galaxies, or, to put it better, the derivative of
luminosity wrt to distance would be uniformly positive, not constant as
Olbers would have it, nor negative as our prescence here requires.  Others
explained that interfering clouds of dust and gas would block light coming
from behind them, but if the quantity of energy is large (and in Olbers'
paradox it is non-finite) then the clouds of dust and gas would begin to
heat and shine as well...

	In any case, the solution finally came out of the Doppler effect.
The redshift in light is in fact a decrease in the energy of the photons
emitted (by the quantum principle).  Hence the intensity of the light
emitted by a distant galaxy drops off asymptotically to zero as the galaxy's
velocity nears c, which is to say as the edge of the universe approaches.
Hence the integral is convergent and finite, and can be determined,
incidentally, by taking your nearest pulse-counting photometer out and
measuring the background light of the sky.

	Sudden thought:  Olber's paradox plus the general nature of the
Doppler shift should give us the shape of the Hubble curve with the
parameter H left free.  Since we know the definite integral, shouldn't this
provide an independent estimate for the value of the Hubble constant H0?
Anybody?

					Rick.

------------------------------

Date: 4 Dec 84 11:41:54 EST
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: OTA Civilian Space Study
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

Electronic News, Dec. 3:
Washington -- After spending $200 billion since the launch of its first
spacecraft in 1958, the U.S. is fully capable of making major strides
in the area of civilian space, but it is not adequately prepared to do so.

This conclusion, in a new study of the future of space by the Congressional
Office of Technology Assessment, prompts an OTA recommendation to "revisit"
the 1958 Space Act to "lay out a set of new goals that are responsive to
contemporary and foreseeable circumstances, interests and values."

To encourage public discussionm OTA offered a half-dozen possible national
space goals, as follows:

   o  To increase the efficiency of space activities and reduce their net
      cost to the public;

   o  To involve the public directly in space activities, both on Earth and
      in space;

   o  To derive scientific, economic, social and political benefits;

   o  To increase international cooperation and collaboration in and for
      space;

   o  To study and explore the earth, the solar system and the greater
      physical universe;

   o  To "spread life, in a responsible fashion, thoughout the solar system."

OTA suggested, specifically, that a transportation service could be
established to and from the Earth's Moon and "a modest human presence"
posted there for scientific and other cultural and economic purposes.

It reported that space probes could be used to obtain the information and
experience required to plan further exploration of Mars and some asteroids.
It added that all of the nonclassified and nonprivate communications from,
and the nonproprietary data generated by, all government-supported
spacecraft and satellites could be made widely available to the general
public and educational institutions in near-real-time and at modest cost.

Radio and optical free-space electromagnetic propagation techniques, said
OTA, could be exploited in an attempt to allow reliable and economic long
distance transmission of large amounts of electrical energy, both in space
for use there, and from space, lunar and remote Earth locations for
distribution throughout the world.

OTA also suggested that space-related commericial-industrial sales in the
private sector could be stimulated.

[PFD: I wonder who wrote the OTA report?  Sounds great.]

------------------------------

Date:       Sun, 02 Dec 84 13:34:09 EST
From:       "Bob Czech" <939@NJIT-EIES.MAILNET>
To:         space@mit-mc
Subject:    five good reason for vigorous u.s. involvement in space
Message-ID: <M19.14568@NJIT-EIES.MAILNET>

[From Paul Levinson, the Western Behavioral Sciences Institute School of
Management and Strategic Studies "Open Inquiry" Conference on EIES]:

Herewith what I view to be some of the important arguments in favor of a
vigorous space exploration and settlement program by the U.S.  They're
presented in no particular order, because each in its own way seems
equally important:

MORTALITY:  Sooner or later our planet will become a cinder, or get
otherwise clobbered (one hopes later rather than sooner, and from natural
rather than humanly-produced catastrophe).  It thus is eminently in our
interest to extend our humanity beyond the planet in a way that sticks as
soon as possible.  Hitching our destiny to the stars may not guarantee our
species absolute immortality (the cosmos may end someday too, whatever
that means), but will certainly give us a lot longer shot than we have
huddled down on this planet.

HOMELAND: I love this planet, but I also recognize it is no more the
be-all and end-all of my home than the neighborhood I was born in or city
in which I now reside.  The truest human home is the full cosmic context
in which our planet exists.  Heretofore we were technologically not
capable of moving beyond the locale in which we happened to find
ourselves.  Now we are, and there's no reason we should not avail
ourselves of this larger home.

RESOURCES:  Does it make sense to quarrel over dwindling resources on this
planet when a veritable infinity of resources await us beyond.  G. K.
O'Neill made this point well in The High Frontier, and I also am reminded
of Arthur C. Clarke's story about the caveman freezing to death on top of
a bed of coal.  Myopia in thinking about the future can be fatal.

UNPERVERTING HISTORY:  Assassin's bullets in 1963 and again in 1968
resulted in the incredible, tragic irony of a President who hated the
space program presiding over the landing on the moon.  So instead of that
day serving as a glorious beginning to a new epoch, it was left rotting on
the vine as an unpleasant reminder of the Kennedy vision.  We can never
get the Kennedys back, but we can redeem their vision if we choose.

TOTALITARIAN COSMOS:  The Soviets recently broke a record (their own) for
humans in space, with cosmonauts returning in relatively good health after
237 days in their space station.  Although the Soviets say there is no
connection, the 237 day figure is significant: it's about what it takes to
go to Mars in today's technologies.  I have nothing against the Russians
as a people, and indeed I think we must do everything in our power to
communicate with each and get to know each other better, but the thought
of a socialist totalitarian cosmos greeting a laggard Western democratic
arrival in the 21st century doesn't appeal to me.  It's not at all a
question of blind nationalism or patriotism:  it's the value of a cosmos
explored and settled with democratic, laissez-faire as well as
totalitarian, socialist values.

     Comments, criticisms, suggestions?

                                   -- Paul Levinson
                                      Faculty, WBSI-SMSS
                          Lev%NJIT-EIES,Mailnet@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

06-Dec-84  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #56
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 56

Today's Topics:
			Re: the story of Olbers...
			     Olbers' paradox
		       space shuttle info needed..
			Re: the story of Olbers...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 5 Dec 84 10:26:32 PST (Wednesday)
From: Wedekind.es@XEROX.ARPA
Subject: Re: the story of Olbers...
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Wedekind.es@XEROX.ARPA

My memory of a recent Science article (issue, anyone?) differs somewhat
from the explanation of Olber's paradox offered by Rick McGeer.

After a lengthy harangue on why the phrase "Olber's paradox" is both a
misattribution and a misnomer, the article states that the resolution to
the puzzle is simply that the stars do not cover the sky.

The roughly 10^20 stars in the visible universe (radius = c * age of
universe) cover only about 10^-13 of the solid angle of the sky.  With
observed stellar distribution and sizes it would take about 10^60 of
them to cover the sky completely. 

Jerry

------------------------------

Date: Wed 5 Dec 84 15:20:39-EST
From: FIRTH@TL-20B.ARPA
Subject: Olbers' paradox
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: mcgeer%ucbkim@UCB-VAX.ARPA

Rick McGeer challenges us to estimate Hubble's constant.

Well, I don't know any of the actual numbers, but the symbolic
calculation ought to be straightforward - after all, it's not
yet 20 years since I was doing this stuff at Cambridge, so let's
see whether the brain has been totally rotted by computer science...

Assume a Newtonian universe, where galaxies at distance r from us
are receding with velocity v, and

	v = H r

where H is Hubble's constant.  To simplify, I'll measure v in cees,
ie c=1.  Now, given a uniform distribution of matter (clumped a little
into stars or galaxies, maybe) then the amount of matter in the volume
element is

	4 pi d r^2 dr
ie
	4 pi d v^2 / H^3 dv

where "d" is the density.  If we assume all matter radiates uniformly, then
the energy will be proportional to this, neglecting the Doppler effect.

The energy radiated is determined by Stefan's law :

	d sigma T^4

where T is the temperature and sigma is Stefan's constant.  The amount of the
energy that we see is calculable by the inverse square law as fraction
1/(4 pi r^2) (normalising for the square radian), ie

	4 pi d sigma T^4 r^2 dr  / 4 pi r^2
ie
	d sigma T^4 dr

and for simplicity we can call "d sigma T^4" just "f"
Hence, the total energy flux is

	integral[0,infinity] ( f dr )

which of course diverges.

Now let's add the Doppler effect.  The energy flux we perceive is proportional
to the frequency, which is shifted by a factor

	sqrt((1-v)/(1+v))

(remember that c=1).  This gives the total energy flux as

	integral[0,1/H] ( f sqrt((1-Hr)/(1+Hr)) dr )
ie
	(f/H) integral[0,1] ( sqrt((1-v)/(1+v)) dv )

since there is evidently a cutoff at v=1 or r=1/H.  That integral
converges, its value is (f/H).(pi/2-1).

Ah, but wait!  This is still a Newtonian universe, where a "uniform"
distribution assumes that we perceive an equal density of matter in
every volume element.  But that is not so in a relativistic universe.
A distant volume element appears contracted owing to the recession;
ie it is thicker than we perceive.  We should really assume the density
is uniform according to the local metric m, where of course

	dr = dm sqrt(1-v^2)

if the local frame of reference is receding at velocity v.

Including that adjustment, we get

	(f/H) integral[0,1] ( f sqrt((1-v)/(1+v)) dv / sqrt(1-v^2) )

which gives (f/H).log(2), so the sky is still not an eye-searing
ultraviolet.

Would anyone like to plug in the numbers?

Robert Firth
-------

------------------------------

Date: 5 December 1984 22:11-EST
From: Herb Lin <LIN @ MIT-MC>
Subject:  space shuttle info needed..
To: SPACE @ MIT-MC
cc: LIN @ MIT-MC

was there an instance where the shuttle didn't lift off due to a
software problem?  I seem to recall an incident, but can't cite it.

more generally, I'm curious to know what software difficulties the
shuttle has had operationally..

please reply to me directly, as I am not on the SPACE list.

tnx.

herb lin

LIN@MIT-MC

------------------------------

	id AA07274; Wed, 5 Dec 84 17:56:17 pst
	id AA10564; Wed, 5 Dec 84 17:58:09 pst
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 84 17:58:09 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8412060158.AA10564@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: Wedekind.es@XEROX.ARPA, space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: the story of Olbers...

	Yes.  The "solution" here is that it is claimed that there is a
large, but finite, number of stars in the universe.   Olbers assumed an
infinite number of stars.  If that is the case, then even if all the stars
lie on the same radial, any insterstellar absorption medium will scatter the
light, hence the smearing effect.

	I am not sure if the total mass of the universe is finite, in fact.
If it is, then obviously Olbers' paradox is not a paradox.

	Reference for the stuff I passed on is Isaac Asimov's "The Black of
Night" collected in "Of Time, Space, and Other Things", Avon, 1965.

							Rick.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

07-Dec-84  0402	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #57
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 57

Today's Topics:
		     Re:  space shuttle info needed..
----------------------------------------------------------------------

	id AA26645; Thu, 6 Dec 84 11:21:48 pst
	id AA02140; Thu, 6 Dec 84 11:23:34 pst
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 84 11:23:34 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8412061923.AA02140@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: LIN@MIT-MC, SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject: Re:  space shuttle info needed..
Cc: LIN@MIT-MC

	was there an instance where the shuttle didn't lift off due to a
	software problem?  I seem to recall an incident, but can't cite it.
	

There was indeed.  The first attempted flight of Columbia was postponed very
late in the count because of a synchronization problem between the shuttle
main computers and the backup computer.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

08-Dec-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #58
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 58

Today's Topics:
		     Re: space shuttle info needed..
		       space shuttle info needed..
		      shuttle computer case history
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 07 Dec 84 09:06:16 PST (Fri)
To: Herb Lin <LIN@mit-mc>
cc: SPACE@mit-mc
Reply-To: hester@uci-icse
Subject: Re: space shuttle info needed..
From: Jim Hester <hester@uci-icse>

You might want to take a look at ``The "Bug" Heard 'Round the World''
which appeared in ACM SIGSOFT: Software Engineering Notes, Vol 6 No 5,
October 1981.  As I recall, it details a timing problem between the
onboard computers that occurred sometimes during booting.  It never
happened when testing, but happened when they were booted up for the
first flight.

------------------------------

Date: 7 December 1984 15:37-EST
From: Herb Lin <LIN @ MIT-MC>
Subject:  space shuttle info needed..
To: mcgeer @ UCBKIM
cc: SPACE @ MIT-MC

many thanks for the pointer...

------------------------------

Date:     Fri, 7 Dec 84 15:24 CDT
From:     Mike_Linnig <linnig%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To:       space@mit-mc.ARPA
cc:       linnig%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
Subject:  shuttle computer case history

>	was there an instance where the shuttle didn't lift off due to a
>	software problem?  I seem to recall an incident, but can't cite it.
>	
>
>There was indeed.  The first attempted flight of Columbia was postponed very
>late in the count because of a synchronization problem between the shuttle
>main computers and the backup computer.
>

There was an excellent description of the Shuttles onboard computer system,
it's design, history, and problems in the September 1984 edition of
the Communications of the ACM.

	-- Mike  

	< linnig%ti-eg@csnet-relay >

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

12-Dec-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #59
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 59

Today's Topics:
		  TV news story about planet discovered?
			   J.Carson beats news!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sent: to SU-AI.ARPA by IMSSS.? via ETHERNET with PUPFTP; 84-12-11 12:33:32 PST (=GMT-8hr)
Date: 84-12-11 12:32:36 PST (=GMT-8hr)
Message-id: SU-IMSSS.REM.A131735220434.G0348
From: Robert Elton Maas <REM@SU-IMSSS.?>
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject: TV news story about planet discovered?
Reply-to: REM%IMSSS@SU-SCORE.ARPA

I know I deserve to lose, watching channel 5 (KPIX) news, but I
happened to have it on after watching channel 4 (KRON) news just
before and switched over while fixing breakfast. Anyway, according to
KPIX, astronomers in Arizona report discovering a planet about the
size of Jupiter but with ten times the mass of Jupiter orbiting
another star about a trillion (i.e. 1E12) miles away. The story didn't
say where the astronomers were specifically (I assume Kitt Peak) nor
what star it was. It did say this story is important because it's the
first time a planet has been directly observed around another star
besides the Sun. Well, a lightyear is about 5.878E12 miles, so the
alleged star with planet is about 0.17 lightyears away. Well, ain't no
such star!! The nearest known star (except the Sun) is 4.3 lightyears
(25 trillion miles) away. Discovering a new star 25 times as close as
Alpha Centauri would be big news, so I'm sure this story is messed up.
Does anybody know if there really is a story in there, or this is just
a big lie?? (Reply to me directly, I'm not on the SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS
mailing list currently.)

------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 1984 2347-PST
From: Rem@IMSSS
Subject: J.Carson beats news!
To:   SPACE%MIT-MC@SCORE

J.Carson, on his monologue tonight, gave a better report than the TV news
I complained about earlier today. J.Carson says it was Kitt Peak (which I
guessed from the other report), but more importantly it is 21 lightyears
away (163 trillion miles), which sounds a lot more reasonable than the
1 trillion mile distance reported on the news. -- Now let me see if I can
guess what star it might be... Darn, the chart in Sky&Telescope shows all
known stars out to only 17 LY, and only 1st magnitude or brighter beyond
that. Vega is 26.5 LY and Fomalhaut 22.6 LY, and nothing else on the chart
is remotely similar in distance, so I can't guess what star it might be.
I guess I gotta search the news service at SU-AI to get the correct story,
unless it's in the newspaper... Nope, not even a mention in Tuesday aftermoon's
Times-Tribune.
-------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

13-Dec-84  0406	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #60
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 60

Today's Topics:
				New Planet
		Re: TV news story about planet discovered?
		       Extrasolar planet discovery
			   How the moon formed
				new planet
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 12 Dec 84 14:04 CST
From:  Slocum@HI-MULTICS.ARPA
Subject:  New Planet
To:  Space@MIT-MC.ARPA
Message-ID:  <841212200448.864516@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>

All the particulars I could find about newly discovered planet:

Name : VB 8B
Size : "about as big as Jupiter"
Mass : "30 to 80 times as heavy" (as Jupiter)
Surface Temp. : 2000 degrees F
(considered a "brown dwarf" - too small and cool to be a real star)
Star system : Van Biesbroeck 8
(Named for George Van BiesBroeck, the Belgian-born American astronomer
that discovered it in 1961)
Distance : 21 light years

Leader of research team : Donald W. McCarthy, Jr., Univ. of Arizona
Telescope : 158-inch at Kitt Peak
Technique : speckle interferometry, which detects infrared

Technical article : Astrophysical Journal Letters, March issue

    Brett Slocum

------------------------------

Date: Wed 12 Dec 84 14:09:50-EST
From: Michael Rubin <RUBIN@COLUMBIA-20.ARPA>
Subject: Re: TV news story about planet discovered?
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA

"All Things Considered" last night said the object was a brown (infrared)
dwarf about the size of Jupiter but around 5 times the mass, and it orbits
some small boring star 21 lightyears away.  Sorry folks, that's not a planet,
it's a STAR - surface temperature was reported as 2000 degrees Fahrenheit.
They said it was discovered at Kitt Peak by using speckle interferometry
in the near infrared; I'm surprised IRAS didn't see it.  We'll probably
have to wait for next week's SCIENCE NEWS for the whole story.

------------------------------

Date: 12 Dec 84 15:53:10 EST
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: Extrasolar planet discovery
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

The star around which the purported planet was found is Van Biesbroeck 8
(spelling?).  The VB stars are among the dimmest known.  The star VB 10
was, until recently, the star with the lowest known absolute magnitude.
Sky and Telescope had an article on dim stars last year or earlier this
year which mentions VB's list.

------------------------------

Date: 12 Dec 84 16:03:53 EST
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: How the moon formed
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

The latest Science magazine has an interesting article on the formation of
the Moon.  This question has been puzzling planetary scientists for quite
some time.  The classical hypotheses were: splitting of the moon from
a rapidly spinning protoearth, capture of a moon formed elsewhere, or
formation of the moon along with the earth in the same place in the
cloud of rock and gas from which the solar system condensed.  All these
theories have fatal problems.

The new theory says a large body, up to Mars-size, collided with the earth
during the final stages of planetary formation.  A grazing impact of such
a body with Earth would propel perhaps twice the mass of the moon into earth
orbit.  Gases generated during the impact would impart prolonged acceleration
to the debris, allowing stable orbits to form (an impulsive collision with
no "afterburn" would leave all debris in earth-intersecting or earth-escape
orbits).  Once in orbit, debris collisions cause the ring to spread out.
About half the debris falls back to earth, the rest collecting beyond the
Roche limit where the moon can form.  Tidal interactions over geological
time propel the moon to its present position.

------------------------------

Date: Wed 12 Dec 84 14:31:26-PST
From: Wilkins  <WILKINS@SRI-AI.ARPA>
Subject: new planet
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: rem%imsss@SU-SCORE.ARPA

Well, they don't tell us the star, but they do give the constellation
which should narrow your search considerably . . .
David

a058 10-Dec-84  13:40
    SCIENCE
    Undated--PLANET-American scientists have discovered what they
believe is the first planet detected outside of the solar system. The
astronomers, using infrared telescopes, have located a huge mass
orbiting another dim and distant star in the constellation Ophiuchus,
according to the Univrsity of Arizona and the Nationa Science
Foundation. For years astronomers have searched the sky to see if
other stars besides the Sun have planets. All theories of possible
intelligent extraterrestrial life are based on the premise that such
extra-solar planetary systems exist and may even be fairly common in
the universe. The team of discovering astronomers, led by Donald W.
McCarthy Jr. of the University of Arizona, reportd that the object
is a gaseous body resembling the planet Jupiter in appearance and
substance. It is about nine-tenths the size of Jupiter but 30 to 80
times as massive. The object is about 600 million miles from the star
it orbits, known as Van Biesbroeck 8.
    The star is a faint body in the Milky Way about 21 light years from
Earth. If the starhad been brighter, the astronomers said, its
companion would probably have remained undetected in the glow. As it
was, the object was detected and studied several times by infrared
telescopes at two different observatories, the Kitt Peak National
Observatory in Arizona and the University of Arizona's Steward Observatory.
McCarthy and group insist that it is a planet, though they want to
make more observations in March. Other astronomers say it is too hot
and massive to be classed as a planet, saying it is a ''brown
dwarf.'' In either case, scientists said it represented a whole new
class of astronomical objects and a ''fascinating'' discovery.
1,000.--by John Noble Wilford.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

15-Dec-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #61
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 61

Today's Topics:
			    Pgh L5 Xmas Party
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 Dec 84 20:05:53 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Pgh L5 Xmas Party
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

For those of you who are fortunate enough to live nearby, our annual
Christmas bash will be held Satuday night.  A local SSI trustee is bringing
what he claims is the original formula for V2 rocket fuel (mix grain alcohol
and distilled water in appropriate proportions).  Others may bring whatever
they feel appropriate.  So come and get launched where you can talk space
and everybody knows what you're talking about!!!

6823 Thomas Blvd, Apt #4
Pittsburgh, PA (Point Breeze area)
19:30-?? Sat 12/15/84.


    |          |        (*) |
    |-------------------------- Thomas Blvd ---
    |          |            |
    |          |            | Dallas
    |          |            |
--------------------------------- Penn Ave ----   Wilkinsburg->
   /           |            |
  / 5th
 /


PS: With a little luck, we'll have some video tapes from the Northeast
Regional Conference playing. We might have some live music if a few folk or
filk singers show up, but one can never tell...

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

18-Dec-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #62
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 62

Today's Topics:
		      Upcoming Launches from the KSC
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Michael_D'Alessandro@Wayne-MTS
Message-ID: <11491@Wayne-MTS>
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 84 17:11:38 EST
From: Michael_D'Alessandro%Wayne-MTS%UMich-MTS.Mailnet@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Upcoming Launches from the KSC

I'm going to be in Florida over vacation from December
25th to January 6th, and I would like to know if any
launches are scheduled within that time period at the
Kennedy Space Center. I don't believe the shuttle is
supposed to go up that early in January, but are there
any satellite launches scheduled within that timeframe?
Any phone numbers I can call to find out?


                      Michael D'Alessandro
                      Dept. of Computer Science
                      Wayne State University

<<Internet>>:

Michael_D'Alessandro%Wayne-MTS%UMich-MTS.Mailnet@MIT-Multics.ARPA

(or if your mailer does not like apostrophes...)

Userid=GD1B%Wayne-MTS%UMich-MTS.Mailnet@MIT-Multics.ARPA

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

19-Dec-84  0431	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #63
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 63

Today's Topics:
			Equinox Algorithm Request
				 Nemesis
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 17 Dec 84 16:05:46 PST (Mon)
To: Space-Enthusiasts@mit-mc
Subject: Equinox Algorithm Request
From: "Tim Shimeall" <tim@uci-icsd>

Can anyone send me an algorithm for calculating when the spring equinox
will be for an arbitrary year?  It need only be accurate between 1900
and 2000 AD.
				Tim

------------------------------

Date: Tuesday, 18 December 1984 23:33:25 EST
From: Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa
To: space@s1-a.arpa
Subject: Nemesis
Message-ID: <1984.12.19.4.30.49.Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa>


n127  0029  18 Dec 84
BC-NEMESIS 2takes
(ScienceTimes)
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
c.1984 N.Y. Times News Service
    NEW YORK - With bounding curiosity and a theory to establish,
astronomers are searching the northern skies for a star they call
Nemesis, a small, dim companion of the Sun. Nemesis may or may not
exist, but the quest goes on and soon will expand to the southern
skies.
    Other astronomers, similarly inspired, have revived interest in
finding Planet X, the putative body that has long been sought beyond
Neptune and Pluto. They are examining new data from a spacecraft for
evidence of the planet's existence.
    Some of the best minds of science are thus at play these nights and
days in a provocative and promising attempt to understand how the
heavens may hold the answer to what happened to the dinosaurs and,
more important, what caused all the mass extinctions that, according
to new fossil evidence, seem to afflict the Earth every 26 million
years or so. This effort may lead to a new view of mass extinctions
and their possibly decisive role in evolution.
    The informed imaginations of these scientists run to unseen heavenly
forces, a star or planet yet to be discovered, that trigger a hail of
comets through the solar system. Some of the comets collide with the
Earth. The collisions fill the atmosphere with dust, blotting out
sunlight for months and causing global death. This is a hypothesis in
search of an activating mechanism, the source of the heavenly force.
    For several months now the possible mechanism that has stirred the
greatest interest and debate is the one involving the Sun's theorized
companion star, Nemesis. Or ''death star,'' as scientists sometimes
call it.
    Some skeptical scientists, checking the feasibility of such a star
causing such periodic havoc, have questioned whether Nemesis could
maintain an orbit sufficiently stable to make a close approach to the
near solar system precisely every 26 million years. But proponents,
while modifying the hypothesis somewhat in an effort to satisfy these
objections, insist that the Nemesis hypothesis could still hold the
key to the mass extinctions that apparently occur in 26-million-year
cycles.
    Richard A. Muller, a professor of astronomy and physics at the
University of California at Berkeley, said: ''It's been demonstrated
beyond all doubt that the orbit of Nemesis is sufficiently stable to
do what we said the star would do. I think the case in favor of
Nemesis has become much stronger.''
    Muller, with Marc Davis of Berkeley and Piet Hut of the Institute
for Advanced Study at Princeton, proposed the Nemesis hypothesis a
year ago in response to a stunning new paleontological study of mass
extinctions. What happened is an arresting example of how science
sometimes operates: one major hypothesis followed by another related
one and, together, they inspire a third hypothesis of even grander
aspect.
    In the 1970s, Walter Alvarez, a Berkeley geologist, found a layer of
clay in Italy that contained unusually large amounts of the rare
element iridium, which is more usually found in extraterrestrial
bodies like asteroids. This led to the theory, advanced by him and
his father, Luis Alvarez, a Nobel Prize-winning physicist, that an
asteroid struck the Earth 65 million years ago, creating months of
darkness that wiped out the dinosaurs and countless other species.
    Last year, after an exhaustive study of the fossil record going back
250 million years, J. John Sepkoski and David M. Raup,
paleontologists at the University of Chicago, reported a previously
unrecognized pattern to mass extinctions. They may not be random
events, as had been supposed. They appeared to occur without fail
every 26 million years.
    This was inexplicable. No earthly phenomenon was known to occur in
such lengthy cycles. But the Alvarez asteroid hypothesis had
conditioned scientists to consider extraterrestrial causes of earthly
disasters, and so Sepkoski appealed to astrophysicists for
suggestions.
    At first, Luis Alvarez decided the Sepkoski-Raup hypothesis of
periodic extinctions was wrong. However, to check himself, he asked
Muller to play devil's advocate, in the course of which Muller
recalled becoming persuaded that the Sepkoski-Raup hypothesis was
right.
    Muller and his associates then came up with a hypothetical situation
that could account for such regular extinction patterns.
    Many stars, they knew, come in pairs, a smaller star orbiting the
dominant one or two relatively equal bodies orbiting a common center
of gravity. In astronomy these are called binary systems. What if the
Sun had such a companion? Such an object, if far away and very small,
only 5 to 10 percent as massive as the Sun, could easily have escaped
notice.
    The companion star, they reasoned, could follow an eccentric orbit
about one-and-a-half times as long as it is wide that would take it
far out, as much as three light years from the Sun, and bring it back
to the vicinity of the near solar system only once every 26 million
years. It would make its closest approach out beyond the known
planets in the midst of the cloud of comets believed to exist there.
    No one has seen this cometary cloud, but astronomers assume from the
trajectories of known comets that they must come from that region,
known as the Oort Cloud.
    As the companion star passed in or close to the cloud, according to
the hypothesis, its gravitational force would jostle hundreds of
thousands of the comets and send many of them careering in toward the
Sun and impacts on the planets.
    (MORE)
    
nyt-12-18-84 0329est
***************

n128  0039  18 Dec 84
BC-NEMESIS 1stadd
NYT NEW YORK: the planets.
    The last time this must have happened, judging by the Sepkoski-Raup
interpretation of the fossil record, was about 13 million years ago.
Thus, Nemesis would now be at the farthest point in its orbit and not
due back for another 13 million years.
    In articles and letters published recently in the British journal
Nature, several scientists cast doubt on the hypothesis by pointing
out that such an elongated orbit reaching so far out from the Sun
would be inherently unstable. The Sun's gravitational hold on Nemesis
would be weak. Thousands of passing stars and clouds of interstellar
matter could perturb Nemesis so that each time it returned its orbit
would be wider, taking it farther and farther from the Sun.
    Marc Bailey, an astronomer at the University of Manchester in
England, said the Nemesis proposal seemed to be ''quite incapable of
producing the strictly periodic sequence of extinction events for
which it was originally designed.''
    Muller complained that Bailey ''totally mischaracterized'' the
report Hut wrote for Nature. Hut presented new calculations
supporting the hypothesis, though he recognized that the orbit of
Nemesis would vary by about 15 percent over the last 250 million
years. Proponents of Nemesis note that such variation is not
incompatible with the fossil record for extinctions, which
paleontologists believe could be imprecise by a million years or more.
    Taking into account the criticism, Muller and his associates have
revised the hypothesis to postulate that when the companion star was
formed 4.6 billion years ago, it must have traveled a tighter, more
stable orbit closer to the Sun and only later moved outward to its
present orbit.
    Even so, Roman Smoluchowski, professor of astronomy and physics at
the University of Texas at Austin, said the Nemesis hypothesis might
apply to only one or two of the mass extinctions. ''I have great
difficulty conceiving of how the star could survive long enough to
account for the 10 or 12 extinctions over the last 250 million
years,'' he said.
    This is all the more reason for Muller to be stepping up the search
for Nemesis. Since last April, astronomers at the University of
California's Leuschner Observatory have been focusing a 30-inch
telescope in an attempt to detect any stellar object whose motions
might betray its proximity and hence its likelihood as a solar
companion. In March, telescopes farther south are to begin looking at
other parts of the sky.
    Hut said astronomers probably had a 50 percent chance of finding
Nemesis within three years, if it exists.
    Daniel P. Whitmore, an astronomer at the University of Southwestern
Louisiana, at Lafayette, came forward with a similar companion-star
hypothesis at about the same time that Muller's group did. Now
Whitmore has conceived of an alternative hypothesis that is to be
published soon in Nature.
    He looks to Planet X as the possible heavenly force that perturbs
the Oort Cloud every 26 million years. Such a distant planet has been
predicted on the basis of the apparent wobbling orbital course of
Uranus and Neptune, evidence of possible gravitational tugging from
an unseen object.
    According to the new hypothesis, developed with John Matese at
Southwestern Louisiana, the planet would orbit the Sun once every
1,000 years in a region far beyond Pluto and in the inner fringe of
the Oort Cloud. Being fairly close to the Sun, the orbit would be
stable over the ages. The planet would have long ago cleared out a
comet-free gap in the cloud.
    But Whitmore thought of a way in which the planet could cross the
comet disk twice every 52 million years to cause the destructive fall
of comets on Earth every 26 million years. The planet's orbit could
be tilted with respect to the plane of the other planets and the
inner comet disk. And because of perturbations from other planets,
Planet X's orbit as a whole could precess, or slowly rotate, so that,
even though it makes a close approach to the Sun once every 1,000
years, only twice in a 52-million-year rotation period would it
actually cross through the cometary disk.
    Smoluchowski says the new hypothesis ''is worth exploring.''
    Since Planet X, if it exists, must be quite dim, astronomers expect
their best chance for proving its existence would come from heat
emissions detected by infrared telescopes.
    The infrared data for that region of the sky are now being
processed, while astronomers look also for Nemesis - and perhaps for
other possible explanations of the catastrophes that seemingly befall
the Earth every 26 million years.
    
nyt-12-18-84 0339est
***************

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

23-Dec-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #64
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 64

Today's Topics:
			      Adding to list
			       Baby Galaxy
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 21 Dec 1984 1532 PST
From: Rick Killion <KILLION@JPL-ROBOTICS.ARPA>
Subject: Adding to list
To: SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS@MIT-MC
Reply-To: KILLION@JPL-ROBOTICS.ARPA

I was apparently dropped from the Space digest list a few
weeks ago.  Please re-add me to the list.  Thank you.

                        Killion@JPL-Robotics

------

------------------------------

Date: Saturday, 22 December 1984 22:08:08 EST
From: Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa
To: space@s1-a.arpa
Subject: Baby Galaxy
Message-ID: <1984.12.23.3.4.58.Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa>


n021  0844  21 Dec 84
BC-GALAXY
By WALTER SULLIVAN
c. 1984 N.Y. Times News Service
    NEW YORK - Optical and radio astronomers say tens of thousands of
new stars may be bursting into existence in the formation of a new
galaxy.
    Detailed mapping of the part of the sky occupied by a brilliant
cloud known as Minkowski's Object is supplying evidence that it is a
burst of new stars, according to an announcement by the University of
California, Berkeley.
    The mapping shows the region lies at the end of a jet emanating from
a nearby galaxy. It is assumed that impingement of the jet on a dense
cloud of gas and dust is triggering the formation of stars.
    It is, says the university, ''the first strong evidence that such
jets can start the formation of an entire galaxy if they hit large
clouds of cosmic gas.''
    The optical observations were made with telescopes in Arizona,
California and Chile. The radio mapping was performed by the Very
Large Array, a Y-shaped deployment of 27 radiotelescopes in New
Mexico. The radio map shows the jet to be about 60,000 light years in
length.
    That is, it would take light 60,000 years to travel from the jet's
origin, in an elliptical galaxy known as NGC 541, to its end.
    The jet, a column of gas moving at extremely high velocity,
generates the radio waves that make it observable because of its
interaction with the thin gas adrift between galaxies. Where the jet
penetrates a denser cloud of material it is thought to generate
enough violent turbulence to initiate gravitational condensation of
the material into stars. The stars begin to shine when pressure and
temperature in their cores become comparable to that in the core of
the Sun, initiating the fusion of hydrogen into helium.
    NGC 541 is in a cluster of galaxies 240 million light years away. It
is suspected that the jet is ejected along the spin axis of a rapidly
rotating ''black hole'' or some other superdense, supermassive object
in the galaxy's core. If, as widely believed, such a black hole
swallows up entire stars, it would not only act as a stellar
graveyard but provide the energy for the birth of new stars very far
away.
    The observations were made by a team led by Wil van Breugel, of the
Berkeley campus; Alexei V. Filippenko, also at Berkeley; Timothy
Heckman, of the University of Maryland and Johns Hopkins University,
and George Miley of the Netherlands, who is now at the Space
Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore. The research was supported
by the National Science Foundation. The Very Large Array is operated
by the National Radio Astronomy Observatory.
    
nyt-12-21-84 1144est
***************

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

25-Dec-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #65
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 65

Today's Topics:
			 1985 shuttle missions   
			      Adding to list
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 84  1339 PST
From: Ron Goldman <ARG@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: 1985 shuttle missions   
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

a256  1705  21 Dec 84
AM-Space Manifest,0514
Space Shuttle Missions for 1985 Announced
By PAUL RECER
AP Aerospace Writer
    SPACE CENTER, Houston (AP) - The space agency announced Friday it
plans six shuttle missions in the first seven months of 1985,
starting with the Department of Defense flight next month which will
carry a secret cargo.
    The flight manifest, released at the headquarters of the National
Aeronautics and Space Administration, calls for a flight a month
through May, skipping June, then a Spacelab flight in July.
    NASA officials said a manifest for the balance of 1985 is incomplete
but should be released next month. It may include six more missions,
most of which will involve the launch of communications satellites.
    The flights, lasting a total of 30 days, not counting the military
mission, will carry a total of 36 astronauts into orbit with shuttles
Discovery and Challenger each making three flights.
    The schedule includes the launch of six communications satellites,
recovery of a scientific satellite and two Spacelab missions.
    The first mission, aboard Discovery, is the Defense Department
flight set for launch Jan. 23. The government has said it will not
release any information about the cargo, but sources have described
it as an intelligence-gathering satellite to be launched into orbit
over the Soviet Union.
    NASA did not announce how many crewmembers the flight would have,
but the Air Force confirmed earlier there would be three NASA
astronauts and an Air Force captain on board.
    Information about the length of the mission was also withheld. But
it is expected to be the shortest of next year's shuttle flights.
    On Feb. 20, Challenger will be launched with a crew of six on a
four-day mission that will include the launch of two communications
satellites.
    One of these satellites, the Tracking and Data Relay Satellite-B,
will be the second of a communications systems to be used by NASA to
relay TV pictures and high data rate signals to Earth, giving
virtually 100 percent communications between shuttles and the Earth
during subsequent missions. At present, there are brief
communications gaps when a shuttle is out of radio contact.
    Discovery will be launched March 19 for a five-day mission that will
include the recovery of a scientific satellite that was left in orbit
last April 6. It was deployed to test the long-term effects of space
on a variety of coatings, paints and metals.
    Challenger will be launched April 30 with a crew of seven on a
seven-day mission that will concentrate on science. A Spacelab module
will be carried in the cargo bay and the crew will include five NASA
astronauts and two payload specialists, all of whom are Americans,
NASA spokesman Steve Nesbitt said.
    May 30, Discovery will be launched carrying the most satellites yet
sent into space aboard a shuttle. The five-member crew will launch
three communications satellites during the seven-day mission and
deploy a scientific experiment package.
    A second Spacelab mision is scheduled for launch July 9. The
weeklong flight will have a crew of seven that will include five NASA
astronauts and two American payload specialists, Nesbitt said.
    
AP-NY-12-21-84 2001EST
***************

------------------------------

Date: 21 Dec 1984 1532 PST
From: Rick Killion <KILLION@JPL-ROBOTICS.ARPA>
Subject: Adding to list
To: SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS@MIT-MC
Reply-To: KILLION@JPL-ROBOTICS.ARPA

I was apparently dropped from the Space digest list a few
weeks ago.  Please re-add me to the list.  Thank you.

                        Killion@JPL-Robotics

------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

26-Dec-84  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #66
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 66

Today's Topics:
	       Artificial comet postponed until Thursday   
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 25 Dec 84  2311 PST
From: Ross Finlayson <RSF@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: Artificial comet postponed until Thursday   
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

PM-Comet Watch,0463
German Scientist Makes Decision To Postpone Comet Launch
With PM-Christmas Comet
By ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN
Associated Press Writer
    KITT PEAK NATIONAL OBSERVATORY, Ariz. (AP) - For three hours today,
West German scientist Gerhard Haerendel was on the hot seat, juggling
phones and eventually deciding to postpone the first man-made comet
because of cloudy skies.
    At 5:03 a.m. MST - 15 minutes before a West German satellite was to
produce a cloud of barium vapor 70,160 miles above the Pacific Ocean
- Haerendel notified the West German satellite operations center near
Munich to command the satellite not to eject four barium-filled
cannisters.
    Clouds over ground observatories in Hawaii, Arizona and New Mexico
and fog that kept a National Aeronautics and Space Administration
observation plane grounded in California forced Haerendel to postpone
the comet experiment until 5:32 a.m. MST Thursday.
    ''So far nothing is lost,'' said Haerendel, director of the Max
Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics. ''We did the right
thing.''
    For three hours before the decision, Haerendel, crowded by camera
crews and reporters inside his command trailer at the Kitt Peak
National Observatory southwest of Tucson, calmly analyzed the
possibilities.
    He juggled incoming calls from a bank of six telephones, computer
data and questions from reporters. He called the planned launch ''the
culmination of 20 years of work.''
    Haerendel and Tom Krimigis of Johns Hopkins University are the two
principal investigators for the comet project, part of a $78 million
study of how solar wind - a hot, electrically charged gas speeding
from the sun at nearly 1 million mph - interacts with Earth's
magnetic field.
    Knowing that Kitt Peak was covered by clouds, Haerendel hoped for
good news from the other observatories at White Sands Missile Range
in New Mexico, Mauna Kea on Hawaii, Haleakala on the Hawaiian island
of Maui and Fritz Peak near Boulder, Colo.
    But clouds also covered Hawaii, leaving White Sands and Fritz Peak.
White Sands appeared in good condition at first, but about 20 minutes
before the scheduled experiment, Haerendel was told visibility was
poorer than required there as well.
    With NASA's Convair 990 airborne observatory jet grounded in
Mountain View, Calif., only an Argentine observation plane was in the
air over the southern Pacific after taking off from Tahiti. So
Haerendel decided weather conditions were too marginal to proceed.
    Haerendel said a NASA official who has worked at Mountain View more
than 20 years told him the fog moved in so quickly ''he has never
seen anything like it.''
    The postponement was an extra disappointment for Haerendel. His 49th
birthday was Christmas Eve and he couldn't be with his family in
Germany for Christmas.
    But before the postponement decision, he told reporters: ''The
excitement that goes with the experiment is so strong I don't feel
too sorry.''
    
AP-NY-12-25-84 0903EST
**********

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

27-Dec-84  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #67
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 67

Today's Topics:
			       Xmas Comet?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Dec 1984 1037 PST
From: Ron Tencati <TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA>
Subject: Xmas Comet?
To: space@mit-mc
Reply-To: TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA

Ok, I went out Christmas eve, set up my C-11, went to bed, got up
at 4:00am, got out of my warm bed and went outside where it was *COLD*, 
found Spica, and started looking around... At 4:45 I was still looking
around...I never saw even a hint of anything that even remotely resembled
a blurry star, let alone a 'comet'...did I miss something?

-Ron
------
------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

28-Dec-84  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #68
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 68

Today's Topics:
			     missing "comet"
		      Artificial comet launched    
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #67
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 27 Dec 1984 10:45:26-EST
From: york at scrc-vixen
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Subject: missing "comet"
Cc: tencati@jpl-vlsi@mc

As you probably know, you didn't see the artificial comet because
they didn't set it off due to bad weather over all the participating
ground stations.  In fact, I think that the main observation plane
was grounded.  If my sleep-fogged brain heard the clock-radio
correctly this morning, they did release the "comet".  I hope you
were up to see it!

------------------------------

Date: 27 Dec 84  1745 PST
From: Ross Finlayson <RSF@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: Artificial comet launched    
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

[RSF - This time skies were clear in the San Francisco Bay Area, but I wasn't
able to see the comet for some reason.  Did anyone out there see it?]

AM-Christmas Comet, Bjt,0672
Artificial Comet 'Exploded Like A Bright Star'
By LEE SIEGEL
AP Science Writer
    LOS ANGELES (AP) - The world's first man-made comet ''exploded like
a bright star'' over the Pacific Ocean on Thursday in an experiment
to study solar winds, but clouds prevented most would-be viewers in
the United States from glimpsing the 25,000-mile tail.
    At 4:22 a.m. PST, a West German satellite about 60,000 miles above
the Pacific off South America launched two canisters of barium. Ten
minutes later, the canisters ejected the barium vapor to form the
artificial comet.
    ''It was beautiful,'' said Mary Yamamoto, a resident of Honolulu
where the vapor cloud was visible. ''It was like a volleyball. It was
like a ball, a little ball. It was beautiful. It's color was orange
and blue.''
    ''I feel calm and happy,'' project coordinator Gerhard Haerendel
said after the satellite launched the comet-like barium vapor cloud
as part of a $78 million international study of the solar wind. ''I
feel glad we did it and the efforts of so many people paid off.''
    Clouds prevented sightings of the comet from observatories atop Kitt
Peak in Arizona, Mauna Kea on Hawaii - where snow covered telescopes
- and Haleakala on Maui, and from most of West and Midwest. Had skies
been clear, it could have been seen west of a line running from
Hudson Bay through St. Louis to Mexico City.
    The comet was observed from telescopes at New Mexico's White Sands
Missile Range, a mobile observatory near Boulder, Colo., an Argentine
airplane flying over southern Pacific from Tahiti and a National
Aeronautics and Space Administration jet that flew over the ocean
from Mountain View, Calif.
    ''At the outset, it exploded. It looked like a very bright star -
sort of a yellowish-blue flash that quickly went to purple,'' NASA
scientist Bob Cameron said in a radiotelephone interview from the
Convair 990 flying observatory.
    ''It held that size and shape for about three to five minutes, then
we began to see a pronounced tail, which grew very rapidly'' to
almost 25,000 miles in length, he said.
    The tail was about six times the width of the comet's head,
Haerendel, director of the Max Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial
Physics, said by phone from Kitt Peak.
    The comet dissipated after about 15 minutes because ''the solar wind
blew this thing away very rapidly,'' Cameron said.
    U.S. and British satellites, launched with the West German
spacecraft aboard a Delta rocket last Aug. 16 from Kennedy Space
Center in Florida, also detected the comet and collected information
with an array of sensors.
    Haerendel originally planned to have the West German satellite
launch all four barium canisters it carried. But he decided to launch
only two, because clouds blocked some of the ground observatories.
    With two canisters still aboard the spacecraft, ''I anticipate we
may make an attempt to repeat the experiment in July,'' when all
three satellites, the sun and the moon again will be in ideal
positions, Haerendel said.
    The comet was the third of a series of experiments in a
U.S.-British-West German study known as AMPTE, for Active
Magnetospheric Particle Tracer Explorers. The study is aimed at
greater understanding of how Earth's magnetic field is affected by
the solar wind, a hot, electrically charged gas or ''plasma''
speeding away from the sun at nearly 1 million mph.
    The study has no immediate practical applications, but could help
researchers understand how space plasmas collide with dust and gases
to help form comets, planets and stars; how solar wind can disrupt
satellite and ground communications and power lines; how plasmas
might be contained to harness fusion energy; and how solar wind
affects Earth's weather.
    Unlike a real comet - a frozen ball of dust and gas with a long tail
of loose atoms and particles - the artificial comet will be a cloud
of barium, a metallic element that would be energized by the sun to
radiate colored light. Barium is used in another form to make the
digestive tract visible under X-rays.
    
AP-NY-12-27-84 1602EST
**********

------------------------------

Date: Thu 27 Dec 84 18:15:48-PST
From: MILLMAN@USC-ECLC.ARPA
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #67
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA


 I KNOW THE FEELING......I DID THE SAME THING!!!!

MICHAEL

-------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

30-Dec-84  0402	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #69
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 69

Today's Topics:
			       Cosmic Soup?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Saturday, 29 December 1984 08:35:00 EST
From: Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa
To: space@s1-a.arpa
Subject: Cosmic Soup?
Message-ID: <1984.12.29.13.30.40.Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa>


n123  2305  28 Dec 84
BC-PANSPERMIA-(Balt.)2Takes
     By David Aitken
    c. 1984 The Baltimore Sun
    
     Perhaps the first living organisms to appear on the earth when it
was young were not created, as most scientists believe today, by
natural processes. Perhaps, instead, they were planted here by
intelligent beings from elsewhere in the universe.
     This seemingly fantastic theory has been advanced lately by two men
who are not only legitimate but eminent scientsts. One of them, the
astronomer Sir Fred Hoyle, was knighted for his pioneering work on
stellar evolution. The other, Francis Crick, shared a Nobel prize
with James D. Watson for discovering the molecular structure of DNA,
the constituent of genes which encodes heredity, and has been called
by colleagues ''the greatest theorist of biology since ...Darwin.''
     Has science really crossed the line at last into science fiction's
territory? Can we let down the guard of our skepticism and seriously
entertain the marvellous idea that we owe our existence to a
deliberate creative act by some alien being?
     Well, no.
     Sorry. The impression given by the many reviews of Mr. Hoyle's and
Mr. Crick's books in the nonscientific press has been that the
''Panspermia'' (''life everywhere'') theory, as it is called, is a
little unsteady on its feet but worth a hearing. And this is turn
seems to have led to a widespread popular misapprehension that there
really may be something in it.
     But the gentleness of reviewers in dealing with Panspermia has been
out of respect for its eminent authors, in most cases - and out of
insecurity in the rest. (The New York Times's reviewer of Mr. Hoyle's
latest book a few months ago simply threw up his hands, saying,
''Most readers'' - including himself - ''will be ....powerless to
evaluate Mr. Hoyle's argument.'')
     When, tantalized, you read the books themselves you discover that
Mr. Crick clearly says he is just dreaming aloud and doesn't want his
theory to be taken seriously. And that Mr. Hoyle, his earned
scientific reputation notwithstanding, is on this subject merely a
crank. There are in short, no solid grounds for believing in
Panspermia.
     The assumption of most modern biologists about how life began on
earth is that the molecules of amino acid naturally present on the
primitive planet probably combined, by natural processes that are not
yet understood, into ''self-replicating'' molecular structures. (Part
of what defines life is that it ''replicates'' - duplicates -
itself.). Francis Crick doubts this, in part because he says he can't
imagine how it could have happened. (To which, however, Carl Sagan
responds, ''It seems premature, in the face of so much heroic
progress'' up to now in science's understanding of the primitive
earth's chesmitry, ''to despair.'')
     In addition, Mr. Crick goes on, cetain strange features of life on
earth suggest that if self-replicating organisms did appear here
spontaneously, they did so only once, which means that the event must
have been an exceedingly unlikely one. One of these features is that
out of all the amino acids available and suitable for life, only
twenty are incorporated in organisms on earth. There is no imaginable
reason for this, Mr. Crick says, unless one postulates that a single
ancient organism which just happened to be made of those twenty is
ancestral to everything alive today.
     What other theory might fit the facts? Well, Mr. Crick says
startlingly, letting his imagination fly, the facts are also
consistent with the idea that life was seeded on earth by intelligent
beings who shipped the ancient organism with its twenty amino acids
here by rocket.
    
     MORE
    
    
nyt-12-29-84 0204est
***************

n124  2317  28 Dec 84
BC-PANSPERMIA1stadd-(Balt.)
    
     pickup xxx by rocket.
    
     That idea, he argues on a number of grounds, is not absolutely
implausible. Indeed, firing the seeds of life into space is the sort
of thing we ourselves might well do one day, when you remember that
we have already sent a message about ourselves out of the solar
system on a spacecraft. (Mr. Crick could also have added, though he
doesn't, that scientists talk seriously of seeding Venus and Mars
with life when it becomes technically feasible to do so.)
     But his speculations about the ancient aliens and their rocket are
just ''an exercise,'' Mr. Crick told an interviewer from Omni
magazine, and he hopes that no one will take them as more than that.
''The extreme paucity of ...''relevant evidence'' makes confirmation
of any theory about life's origins impossible at present, he
emphasizes in ''Life Itself.''
     And he cautions against uncritical enthusiasm not just for his own
but for any theory that is unsupported by evidence: ''Plausibility
alone will not do, quite apart from the fact that it is usually
contaminated with our unstated prejudices.''
     Sir Fred Hoyle's version of the Panspermia theory is that the
universe is full of drifting clouds of bacteria and genetic material
which, raining down on the earth, give us flu today, which gave life
its start billions of years ago, and which direct the course of
evolution. Darwinian theory is thus invalidated, he maintains: It is
not random mutations which account for the origin of species, but
genetic material from space grafting itself onto the genes of earthly
organisms.
     And how might that extraterrestrial life itself have originated?
Mr. Hoyle thinks it was seeded backwards in time by beings residing
in the future in order to give birth to their own ancestors. It is
only by some such cosmic tautology that life could have arisen at
all, he argues, for it is a statistical impossibility that living
organisms could have sprung into being by mere accident from
non-living material.
     The first part of this theory is at least plausible on the face of
it, particularly in view of science's discovery in meteorites of
simple organic chemicals - none of which, however, has been
demonstrated so far to have had a biological origin. What is wrong
with Mr. Hoyle's presentation of the theory, however, as one
discovers with dismay on reading him, is that he consciencelessly
uses tricks borrowed from pseudosciences such as creationism and
UFOology to dress plausibility up as the hard evidence he simply
doesn't have.
     For example, of photographs he claims show fossils of
extraterrestrial organisms - they are the only photographic evidence
he has ever even claimed to have - Mr. Hoyle says in ''The
Intelligent Universe'' that microbiologist Hans Pflug ''identified
similarities'' between the pictured objects and ''a terrestrial
bacterium, Pedomicrobium
nm,'' though Mr. Pflug ''hesitated to make a positive assertion.''
     Mr. Hoyle thereupon makes a positive assertion himself, without
saying a word about what justifies him in doing so, accompanying it
with the innuendo that anyone who would disagree with him must be
desperately on the defensive. Suggestions by earlier scientists that
microfossils in meteorites might be of biological origin were
''shouted down,'' he says, but ''here surely is clear evidence of
extraterrestrial life.'' (Two can play that game. I say the blurry
photos look like bread mold and that this proves there are sandwiches
in space.)
     Innuendo and invective substitute everywhere for argument in Hoyle
books. There are hints of conspiracy: When ''living bacteria were
found'' by high-altitude balloons at the edge of space,
''Mysteriously, the flights suddenly stopped.'' (Not a syllable of
amplification on this follows, but for afficionados of pseudo-science
the hint will enough.)
     Darwinians who persist in their error (which is to say, the entire
community of the world's biologists, for there are literally millions
of pices of concrete evidence supportung Mr. Darwin's theory, while
no evidence resistant to critical scrutiny has so far been found
against it) ''have convinced themselves'' by intellectually dishonest
means. And why? Because, Mr. Hoyle says, radical new scientific ideas
are always ''bomb blasts among pigeons'' for ''orthodox scientists.''
(No they're not. No reading of the history of science supports this
disingenuous flippancy.)
     So Mr. Hoyle goes, on page after page in book after book, until one
begins to be sickened. Our society is all too ready to be doped by
unreason as it is, and the last thing we need is yet another dealer
on yet another corner.
     And so Panspermia, as a theory to be taken seriously on the basis
of present knowledge, goes a-glimmering. Perhaps an idea as radical
will eventually be needed to explain life's origins. Mr. Crick's
intuition that life may not be so easily explicable as his colleagues
currently think is anyway worth pondering. But for now, as the
philosopher of science Ludwig Wittgenstein puts it, ''about that on
which we have no information we cannot speak.''
    
     Mr. Aitken writes frequently on scientific matters
    
     End Panspermia
    
    
nyt-12-29-84 0215est
***************

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

02-Jan-85  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #70
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 70

Today's Topics:
			 Music with space themes
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 Jan 85 00:00:19 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Music with space themes
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

The president of the Niagara Frontier L5 chapter is interested in putting
together a list of popular songs that use a space or technology theme in
lyrics, title or possibly intent (some instrumental pieces are written with
such intent) We are not looking for filk song titles, but for rock, country,
classical, avant garde, jazz, punk, or whatever.  Some starter examples
would be:

	The Planets	by Gustav Holst
	Rocket Man	by Elton John
	
Other performers I can think of who have done this type of music are
Emerson, Lake and Palmer; Jefferson Starship; possibly Led Zeppelin; Yes...
You should have the idea by now.

I'd appreciate it if y'all would send me your suggestions in the following
format. If you don't have all the info, just send what you have.


Song Title:	(of individual song)
Collection:	(album or songbook containing song, sometimes an entire
		 album or collection may be relevant so that individual song
		 titles are redundant)
Credits:	(person or persons on credits (lyrics, score, music by, etc)
Performer:	(name of band or performer who did the record or whose score
		 was used for sheet music, if applicable)
Publisher:	(either sheet music publisher or record company. Records
		 sometimes have both a label and a major record company,
		 like 'FOOBAZ RECORDS, RCA)
Notes:		(why is this piece of music to considered to have a 'space
		 theme'. It may be from a science fiction movie, it may be a
		 rock song with an SF theme such as some of the Jefferson
		 Starship, it may be about real space events like shuttle
		 launches, moon landings, etc; or more
		 philosophical/poetical peices.


Send your suggestions to:
	amon@cmu-ri-fas.arpa

				Many thanks and Ad Astra,
				Dale Amon

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

03-Jan-85  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #71
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 71

Today's Topics:
			   Date and time needed
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 Jan 85 15:54:16 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Date and time needed
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

Could anyone tell me the exact time and date of Al Shepard's historic
tee off on moon?

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

07-Jan-85  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #72
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 72

Today's Topics:
				 History
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sunday, 6 January 1985 12:30:10 EST
From: Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa
To: space@s1-a.arpa
Subject: History
Message-ID: <1985.1.6.17.28.29.Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa>


a278  2027  05 Jan 85
BC-APN--Rocket Team, adv20-3 Takes,0775
$adv 20
AGENCIES AND RADIO OUT
For release Sun., Jan. 20
>From AP Newsfeatures
APN PRINT SUBSCRIBERS HAVE BEEN MAILED FOUR ILLUSTRATIONS
 
    EDITOR'S NOTE - Now that we're shuttling back and forth in space
with huge payloads, the pioneering age of rocketry seems ancient
history. Not so to the group of German experts that was instrumental
in getting all that hardware up there. Most are retired now, but
their memories are still green. A reporter who covered their exploits
over the years revisits the little band in Huntsville, Ala.
 
By HOWARD BENEDICT
AP Aerospace Writer
    HUNTSVILLE, Ala. (AP) - Forty years ago they were launching V-2
rockets at London for Adolf Hitler. But they knew the war was already
lost for Nazi Germany and they sought to secure their futures.
    The answer, they decided, was America, a country Hitler had been
warring against for more than three years. In America, they might be
able to continue building rockets and perhaps use them to fulfill
their dream of exploring space.
    These were the rocketeers of Peenemunde, on the Baltic coast, and
the most starry-eyed of all was their young technical director,
32-year-old Wernher von Braun. He spoke eloquently of rockets that
would one day carry men to the moon and Mars.
    To von Braun, chances of surrendering to the American army seemed
slim. The Soviet army was closing in on Peenemunde, and the German
general commanding the area felt the rocket workers should fight
there to the end, in hand-to-hand combat, if necessary.
    But the Armament Ministry in Berlin directed von Braun in February
1945, to move his team of 5,000 and his most important research
equipment south to the town of Bleicherode near the Harz Mountains.
There now was hope, von Braun said, because the move might put them
in the path of the American army.
    ''We didn't want to fall into the hands of the Russians,'' one of
the team members, Konrad K. Dannenberg, recalled recently. ''We had
had enough of a totalitarian society. We generally felt better about
America. Several of us were space enthusiasts, and we didn't think
Russia could do much in that field for technical reasons.''
    After a month at Bleicherode, the rocket team was ordered to destroy
all classified records to prevent their capture, but instead they
were hidden in an abandoned salt mine, to be retrieved later. Von
Braun and several of his top scientists and technicians were moved
against their will to an area south of Munich and they feared they
might be eliminated by their own country to prevent the Allies from
obtaining their missile secrets.
    But as Germany collapsed, the rocketmen were able in the confusion
to approach the U.S. Army near the Bavarian ski resort of Oberjoch in
May. The messenger was von Braun's younger brother, Magnus, who could
speak a little English.
    The Americans were delighted to accept the invitation to capture
Germany's top rocketmen, and in a project known as Operation
Paperclip, they selected von Braun and 117 of his key team members to
go to the United States under contract with the Army to build
rockets.
    For a generation, these men were the heart and soul of the U.S.
missile and space programs. Without them, Americans would not have
gone to the moon when they did.
    The Germans went first to Fort Bliss, Texas, and transferred in 1950
to the north Alabama cotton town of Huntsville, which quickly came
alive as the newcomers pursued their dreams into space.
    Most of the survivors from the original group of 118 - about 70 -
still live in Huntsville. The majority are in their 70s and have
retired. Some still do consulting work with aerospace firms or the
National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Their leader, von
Braun, died in 1977.
    The group was shaken last October by the announcement that one of
their group, Arthur Rudolph, had returned to Germany and renounced
his American citizenshup after the Justice Department alleged he
''literally worked thousands of slave laborers to death'' while
building V-2 rockets for the Nazis at an underground factory in
central Germany.
    Rudolph, who coordinated development of the Saturn 5 rocket that
carried U.S. astronauts to the moon, has denied the charges. His
colleagues here back him.
    ''It's just not true,'' says Eberhard Rees, former director of
NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center here. He called Rudolph a
''victim of circumstances to have been put in the underground
manufacture of the V-2.''
    Rees says that poor health and the urgings of his wife and daughter
prompted Rudolph, 77, to leave the country rather than fight the
allegations.
    MORE
    
AP-NY-01-05-85 2320EST
***************

a279  2039  05 Jan 85
BC-APN--Rocket Team, adv20-1st Add,0735
$adv 20
AGENCIES AND RADIO OUT
For release Sun., Jan. 20
HUNTSVILLE, Ala.: the allegations.
    ''He didn't have the funds or the energy to fight,'' says
Dannenberg. He doesn't believe the allegations, adding there probably
was little Rudolph could have done to improve conditions for the
inmates.
    ''All of these forced-labor workers were really under the custody of
the SS,'' he says. ''Rudolph had no influence with the SS to do
better.''
    Rees, Dannenberg and the other Germans would rather talk about their
rocket accomplishments in America. It was a long, hard road.
    ''It was difficult to leave our families and our homeland, and we
didn't know if the Americans would milk us dry of our knowledge and
send us back, as the Soviets did later with the German rocket people
they got,'' Dannenberg says.
    Walter Wiesman's wife Erica tells of the difficulties of families
left behind in Germany: ''We were quartered in Army barracks in
Landsut, north of Munich. There were about 50 real young people there
between 1 and 3 years of age. My daughter Monica had no shoes, so she
had to be carried everywhere. But there was food, and we were not
hungry.''
    The salaries of the rocket team members were paid directly to their
families in Germany.
    ''In Fort Bliss we each received $6 per day,'' recalls Wiesman.
''From this we deducted mess hall charges and $1.20 day for officers'
quarters accommodations. That left us about $3.25 a day to spend.''
    A year and a half later, after the rocketeers had signed long-term
contracts with the Army, the families began arriving in Texas. A
large military hospital annex was converted into apartments and into
lab and office space for the team.
    At Fort Bliss, the von Braun group tested and improved several V-2s
shipped from Germany and instructed the Army on rocketry. In the
early years, funds were meager. The world was at peace, and Congress
was not of a mind to appropriate much money for missilery or for von
Braun's dream of space exploration.
    The Korean War changed that. In 1950, the Germans were rushed to
Huntsville with orders to build the Army a long-range missile able to
carry a nuclear warhead. They set up shop at Redstone Arsenal, an
abandoned, rundown World War II shell-loading facility.
    The finished product was the Redstone missile, successfully launched
for the first time in 1953 from Cape Canaveral, Fla.
    The following year, von Braun and other space enthusiasts from
industry and the services met in Washington to discuss launching a
satellite as a U.S. contribution to International Geophysical Year,
to be observed from July 1957 to December 1958. Von Braun said he
could orbit a 5-pound satellite with a souped-up Redstone. The Office
of Naval Research put up $88,000, and Project Orbiter was born.
    It had a short life. A panel of scientists decided that the
satellite project should be launched with a non-military rocket and
recommended development of the Vanguard, saying a rocket with a
peaceful background would have ''more dignity'' for a scientific
project like IGY. President Dwight Eisenhower agreed.
    Snorted von Braun: ''I'm all for dignity, but this is a cold war
tool. How dignified would our position really be if a man-made star
of unknown origin suddenly appeared in our skies?''
    Such a star appeared on Oct. 4, 1957. It was called Sputnik, it was
made in the Soviet Union and it shocked the West.
    ''We were very disappointed and frustrated over Sputnik,'' says Karl
Heimburg, once in charge of field testing for von Braun. ''Because we
knew we had the capability of launching a satellite at least six
months earlier than that.''
    There was near-panic in official Washington. Von Braun was directed
to prepare for launching a satellite with his jazzed-up Redstone in
case the Vanguard should fail on a December launch attempt.
    ''We didn't like the way the order was written,'' recalls Ernst
Stuhlinger, research chief for the German team. ''If Vanguard worked,
we would have to halt our effort. Medaris asked for an order to
launch a satellite, not just prepare it. Otherwise, Medaris, von
Braun and Pickering all said they would resign. He got the order.''
    Gen. John Medaris was commander of the Army Ballistic Missile Agency
at Redstone. William Pickering headed the California Institute of
Technology's Jet Propulsion Laboratory which was developing the
Explorer 1 satellite for the rocket.
    MORE
    
AP-NY-01-05-85 2333EST
***************

a279  2039  05 Jan 85
BC-APN--Rocket Team, adv20-1st Add,0735
$adv 20
AGENCIES AND RADIO OUT
For release Sun., Jan. 20
HUNTSVILLE, Ala.: the allegations.
    ''He didn't have the funds or the energy to fight,'' says
Dannenberg. He doesn't believe the allegations, adding there probably
was little Rudolph could have done to improve conditions for the
inmates.
    ''All of these forced-labor workers were really under the custody of
the SS,'' he says. ''Rudolph had no influence with the SS to do
better.''
    Rees, Dannenberg and the other Germans would rather talk about their
rocket accomplishments in America. It was a long, hard road.
    ''It was difficult to leave our families and our homeland, and we
didn't know if the Americans would milk us dry of our knowledge and
send us back, as the Soviets did later with the German rocket people
they got,'' Dannenberg says.
    Walter Wiesman's wife Erica tells of the difficulties of families
left behind in Germany: ''We were quartered in Army barracks in
Landsut, north of Munich. There were about 50 real young people there
between 1 and 3 years of age. My daughter Monica had no shoes, so she
had to be carried everywhere. But there was food, and we were not
hungry.''
    The salaries of the rocket team members were paid directly to their
families in Germany.
    ''In Fort Bliss we each received $6 per day,'' recalls Wiesman.
''From this we deducted mess hall charges and $1.20 day for officers'
quarters accommodations. That left us about $3.25 a day to spend.''
    A year and a half later, after the rocketeers had signed long-term
contracts with the Army, the families began arriving in Texas. A
large military hospital annex was converted into apartments and into
lab and office space for the team.
    At Fort Bliss, the von Braun group tested and improved several V-2s
shipped from Germany and instructed the Army on rocketry. In the
early years, funds were meager. The world was at peace, and Congress
was not of a mind to appropriate much money for missilery or for von
Braun's dream of space exploration.
    The Korean War changed that. In 1950, the Germans were rushed to
Huntsville with orders to build the Army a long-range missile able to
carry a nuclear warhead. They set up shop at Redstone Arsenal, an
abandoned, rundown World War II shell-loading facility.
    The finished product was the Redstone missile, successfully launched
for the first time in 1953 from Cape Canaveral, Fla.
    The following year, von Braun and other space enthusiasts from
industry and the services met in Washington to discuss launching a
satellite as a U.S. contribution to International Geophysical Year,
to be observed from July 1957 to December 1958. Von Braun said he
could orbit a 5-pound satellite with a souped-up Redstone. The Office
of Naval Research put up $88,000, and Project Orbiter was born.
    It had a short life. A panel of scientists decided that the
satellite project should be launched with a non-military rocket and
recommended development of the Vanguard, saying a rocket with a
peaceful background would have ''more dignity'' for a scientific
project like IGY. President Dwight Eisenhower agreed.
    Snorted von Braun: ''I'm all for dignity, but this is a cold war
tool. How dignified would our position really be if a man-made star
of unknown origin suddenly appeared in our skies?''
    Such a star appeared on Oct. 4, 1957. It was called Sputnik, it was
made in the Soviet Union and it shocked the West.
    ''We were very disappointed and frustrated over Sputnik,'' says Karl
Heimburg, once in charge of field testing for von Braun. ''Because we
knew we had the capability of launching a satellite at least six
months earlier than that.''
    There was near-panic in official Washington. Von Braun was directed
to prepare for launching a satellite with his jazzed-up Redstone in
case the Vanguard should fail on a December launch attempt.
    ''We didn't like the way the order was written,'' recalls Ernst
Stuhlinger, research chief for the German team. ''If Vanguard worked,
we would have to halt our effort. Medaris asked for an order to
launch a satellite, not just prepare it. Otherwise, Medaris, von
Braun and Pickering all said they would resign. He got the order.''
    Gen. John Medaris was commander of the Army Ballistic Missile Agency
at Redstone. William Pickering headed the California Institute of
Technology's Jet Propulsion Laboratory which was developing the
Explorer 1 satellite for the rocket.
    MORE
    
AP-NY-01-05-85 2333EST
***************

a280  2053  05 Jan 85
BC-APN--Rocket Team, adv20-2nd Add,0751
$adv 20
AGENCIES AND RADIO OUT
For release Sun., Jan. 20
HUNTSVILLE, Ala.: the rocket.
    The Army effort became urgent on Dec. 6 when Vanguard rose 2 feet
off its Cape Canaveral launch pad and fell back, exploding into a
giant fireball. Its 3-pound satellite broke free and beeped forlornly
on the ground. It was one of America's most embarrassing moments.
    Von Braun reserved range time at Cape Canaveral for Jan. 29, 1958.
Delayed two days by weather, his modified Redstone with three small
upper stages blasted off on the 31st and hurled the 31-pound Explorer
1 satellite into orbit.
    America was in a space race with the Soviets. To manage this effort,
Eisenhower and the Congress created the National Aeronautics and
Space Adminstration.
    ''When NASA was formed, it needed a rocket-building capability and
it wanted the von Braun team,'' says Stuhlinger. ''But Medaris and
the Army didn't want to lose the team because it would see its rocket
program slip away.''
    The team was developing the Pershing 1 missile at the time, and NASA
and the Army worked out an agreement in which a group headed by
Rudolph stayed with the Army until the Pershing flew successfully.
    The rocketeers, which now included several hundred Americans, didn't
have to leave Huntsville. NASA established the Marshall Space Flight
Center here, appointed von Braun its first director and named Germans
- most of them now American citizens - to all key positions. Their
major task was to develop the Saturn rockets that would transport men
into space.
    ''The establishment of NASA was a great relief,'' says Dannenberg.
''We wouldn't be involved anymore in producing rockets that could
kill people. We could aim at the peaceful exploration of space.''
    In the early days of the space effort, the German-developed Redstone
and Jupiter rockets boosted many of America's first satellites into
space. And a Redstone carried the nation's first astronaut, Alan
Shepard, into space in 1961.
    Shortly after Shepard's brief suborbital flight, President John F.
Kennedy committed the nation to landing a man on the moon before the
end of the decade.
    ''That decision recognized the capability and work of the team,''
says Dannenberg. ''Space exploration was on its way.''
    The Marshall team, expanded to more than 3,000 people, enjoyed an
unprecedented series of successes in developing first the Saturn 1
and then the mammoth Saturn 5 moon rocket.
    The years of work culminated July 20, 1969, when Americans Neil
Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin walked on the moon.
    ''The first feeling was relaxation because it worked, then
exhilaration,'' says Heimburg.
    ''Our dream was fulfilled,'' says Dannenberg.
    In the early 1970s, with the Apollo moon program winding down, NASA
began easing the former Germans out of their jobs. There was talk at
the time of ''Americanizing'' the space program.
    ''Some of us were angry about that, and several retired at that
time,'' says Dannenberg. ''The Americans were saying, in effect, we
know enough now, so you can leave. There was also a tendency to get
the Germans out of high positions. Some key lab directors were eased
out. I felt a little arm-twisting myself.''
    ''I think it was a combination of getting rid of the older people
and the Germans,'' adds Heimburg.
    Many went to work in Huntsville's burgeoning technical community,
which they helped create. Von Braun was transferred to NASA
headquarters in Washington, and quit after two years there to join
private industry.
    When the Army brought the Germans to Huntsville in 1950, ''it had a
population of 16,000, and we were a pot-belly stove, wood products
and cotton town,'' says Guy B. Nerren, president and general manager
of the Huntsville-Madison County Chamber of Commerce.
    ''The space program came and we went on a roll,'' he says. The
current population is more than 150,000. For a time, he says, 75
percent of the work here was aerospace-oriented. Today it is only 25
percent as other diversified industries have moved in.
    Edward O. Buckbee, director of the Alabama Space & Rocket Center, a
tourist attraction promoted by von Braun as a showcase for the
missile and space programs, says:
    ''Von Braun and his people introduced technology to Huntsville. He
became a leader. The community realized it had a significant and
unusual person and it let him lead the way. As a result, there are
better schools, libraries, a university, a research center - a whole
new beginning to Huntsville. He turned it in a whole new direction,
and the people followed.''
    END ADV
    
AP-NY-01-05-85 2347EST
***************

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

09-Jan-85  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #73
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 73

Today's Topics:
				 Germans
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #71
		    Brazil on the Doorstep of Space   
			 Hal/s to Ada Translator
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Jan 85 20:29:11 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Germans
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

I hadn't known that NASA had actually attempted phasing the German rocket
scientists out at the end of the moon program. But I suppose I understand
why. The last thing a bunch of beauracrats need is having managers who
actually have REAL dreams, REAL creativity, work HARD, and ignore you when
you tell them not to push things so fast!!!

By the way, I've heard the rumour (maybe not so much a rumor) that some of
the NASA beauracrats are qilling to go along with budget cuts so they can
take the space station program and spread it out longer, thus making their
sad little jobs more secure (tsk, tsk). I guess they'd be in real trouble if
anyone in congress ever figures out that we should have a lunar base in less
time than NASA is claiming for a mere space station...

Maybe they should fire everyone at NASA over 30 who isn't from Penemunde.

------------------------------

	id AA03890; Tue, 8 Jan 85 18:46:19 mst
	id AA26414; Tue, 8 Jan 85 18:47:51 mst
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 85 18:47:51 mst
From: jlg@LANL (Jim Giles)
Message-Id: <8501090147.AA26414@b.ARPA>
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #71
Newsgroups: ar.space
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
References: <18871@lanl.ARPA>

> Could anyone tell me the exact time and date of Al Shepard's historic
> tee off on moon?
> 

Someone's working on a high tech version of 'Trivial Persuits'.

------------------------------

Date: 08 Jan 85  1933 PST
From: Ron Goldman <ARG@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: Brazil on the Doorstep of Space   
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

a064  0627  05 Jan 85
PM-Brazil-Space, Adv 15,0669
For Release PMs Tues Jan 15 or Thereafter
Brazil on the Doorstep of Space
By STAN LEHMAN
Associated Press Writer
    SAO JOSE DOS CAMPOS, Brazil (AP) - It was a brief 15-minute,
380-mile suborbital flight, but for Brazilian scientists the
successful launch of a two-stage, homemade Sonda IV rocket was a
turning point in the country's 19-year-old space program.
    In theory, it also meant that Brazil might be on the road toward a
nuclear-missile capability, although officials maintain this is not
their intent.
    Their aim, they say, is to produce an orbital vehicle for
technological satellites.
    The 36-foot, seven-ton, solid-fuel Sonda IV went up Nov. 21 from the
Barreira do Inferno (Hell's Gate) space center in the northeastern
state of Rio Grande do Norte, near the equator, where gravitational
pull is at a minimum.
    ''The Sonda IV proved we are going in the right direction toward
developing our own satellite launching vehicle,'' Jayme Boscov,
project manager of the government's space activities institute, said
in an interview at his office in this southeastern city.
    The institute, one of several research and development centers of
the Brazilian air force's Aerospace Technical Center, coordinates
this country's space program.
    Boscov, 52, said the $1.3 million Sonda IV, which took 10 years to
develop, ''allowed us to test the systems, components and the
technology needed to build a satellite launcher.''
    He said the most important items tested during the Sonda IV flight
were the telecommunications systems, electronic components, flight
control mechanisms, propellants and high resistance steel.
    Boscov said Brazil's first satellite launcher is expected to be
ready by 1990, ''the same year in which we hope to launch our own
meteorological and earth observation satellites.''
    ''The earth observation satellite will be useful to detect mineral
deposits and predict agricultural harvests,'' he added.
    Brazil currently purchases these services supplied by the American
Landsat satellite.
    Asked if a country with the capacity to build a satellite launcher
would be able to build a rocket capable of carrying a nuclear
warhead, Boscov said, ''I cannot deny that the basic technology we
have dominated can eventually be applied to a variety of other
purposes, but the objective of our work is strictly civilian.''
    ''New and totally different techniques would have to be developed to
adapt the rockets we have produced to carry nuclear weapons and these
techniques are not being developed at the institute,'' he added.
    The Aerospace Technical Center, also one of the country's most
important nuclear research sites, is working on ways to enrich
uranium which would give Brazil the capacity to build an atomic bomb.
    Gen. Hugo de Oliveira Piva of the air force, director of the center,
has sai
    And Brazil hopes to master uranium enrichment technology by 1990,
when the satellite launcher is expected to be ready, but has denied
any plans of building a bomb.
    For Boscov, who heads a team of 1,000 at the Space Activities
Institute, Brazil is justified in having what he described as a
modest space program.
    ''It is the only way we can create our own technology and reduce our
dependence on the developed countries,'' he said.
    ''I see no reason why Brazil should not be involved in this kind of
activity which constantly generates new technologies, new jobs and
new products. It is a field in which any country that wants to
develop has to get involved,'' Boscov added.
    ''And since space technology is not something which is transferred
from one country to another very easily, we have to create our own.''
    Boscov said Brazil plans to build a communications satellite, ''but
that is a much more complex project which won't be ready before
1999.''
    Brazil, however, will have a communications satellite before then -
the Brasilsat being built in Canada. It is scheduled to go into orbit
in February, launched by a French Ariane-3 rocket from the Kourou
Space Center in French Guiana, on the northern shoulder of South
America.
End Adv PMs Tues Jan. 15 or Thereafter
    
AP-NY-01-05-85 0922EST
***************

------------------------------

Date:     Mon, 7 Jan 85 13:06 CDT
From:     Mike_Linnig <linnig%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To:       space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc:       larry@JPL-VLSI.ARPA
Subject:  Hal/s to Ada Translator

I recieved the following message from the INFO-Ada mailing list.
Does anyone have any Ideas?

	-- Mike <Linnig%ti-eg@csnet-relay>

> 
> Subj:	HAL/S to Ada translator
> 
> Date: 6 Jan 1985 1943 PST
> From: Larry Carroll <LARRY@JPL-VLSI>
> Subject: HAL/S to Ada translator
> To: info-ada@USC-ECLB
> Reply-To: LARRY@JPL-VLSI
> 
> Most of the Space Shuttle software was written in HAL/S.  Seems to me 
> much of that could be useful for other space projects, if it could be 
> translated into Ada.  (I suspect NASA, reluctantly or otherwise, is 
> going to go to Ada for most future software development.)
> 
> Does anyone know of an automated or semi-automated tool for translating 
> HAL/S to Ada?  Or of PL/I to Ada?  (To my untutored sensibilities HAL/S 
> looks a lot like a slimmed-down PL/I with some real-time facilities 
> thrown in.)
> 						Larry @ jpl-vlsi
> ------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

11-Jan-85  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #74
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 74

Today's Topics:
			SECNAV comments re SBR/IR
	New shuttles by 2010 AD, USA; no go, France and Japan; yes
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thursday, 10 Jan 1985 08:45-EST
From: nsc@Mitre-Bedford
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Cc: nsc@Mitre-Bedford
Subject: SECNAV comments re SBR/IR

   I'm told that SECNAV, at a luncheon address for a *Defense Week*
marketing conference last month, had some interesting comments in
reply to a question about Space Based Radar/IR.  The upshot (I was
told) was that he viewed the establishment of the Unified Space
Command as detrimental to the possibility of funding for SBR/IR.

If anybody has more details on the actual comments Lehman made in
response to the question, I'd appreciate hearing them.

Navy Space Planner

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jan 1985 19:56:22-EST
From: glenn at ll-vlsi
To: SPACE@MIT-MC

Subject:  New shuttles by 2010 AD, USA; no go, France and Japan; yes

     In a rather depressings article Aerospace Daily recently quoted
a congressional committee as recommending that a fifth space shuttle
be considered because no additional shuttles would built for the next
twenty five years.  Also no program for shuttle successors would be
started before early in 2000 AD decade.
     By comparison to this the French have decided to start their "Hermes"
small shuttle, and funded the project with 1.4 Billion dollars over the
next decade.  Typical descriptions call for a 4 man ship with about 4000
kilo cargo capacity.  This ship would be launched on the Ariane 4 type
vehicle about 1996.  They have invited the other members of the European Space
Agency to joint them in this, but will go ahead even if they do not.
     Also in Jane's Spaceflight directory they recently described a Japanese
small shuttle.  It is similar to they French craft and slated for launch
in the early 1990's via a Japanese H type launcher.
     Yes I know none of these are as good as this country's shuttle.  On the
other hand at least they are moving forward in this area.  Is the USA?  Not
by the sound of that first article.

                       Glenn Chapman

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

13-Jan-85  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #75
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 75

Today's Topics:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 85 10:39:07 cst
From: "Duncan A. Buell" <buell%lsu.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To: space@mit-mc.csnet

On January 10, 1985, U. S. District Judge Adrian  Duplantier
in  New Orleans granted a motion for summary judgement, rul-
ing that the "balanced-treatment" statute of  the  state  of
Louisiana,  which  required the teaching of "creationism" if
evolution were taught in the public schools, was unconstitu-
tional, violating the separation of church and state.

The law, passed in 1981  and  never  implemented,  had  been
challenged  immediately  after passage by the state legisla-
ture by a lawsuit filed by the ACLU on behalf of  27  plain-
tiffs,  including representatives of  Roman Catholic, United
Methodist, Presbyterian, and Baptist churches, Jewish organ-
izations, parents, and teachers.

By granting  summary  judgement  to  the  plaintiffs,  Judge
Duplantier  ruled (in essence) that a trial was unnecessary,
as he had sufficient facts from the plaintiffs' suit and the
1981  decision  of Judge Overton in Arkansas to make a deci-
sion in the case.

Some excerpts from Judge Duplantier's decision follow.

"Because it [the state's  balanced-treatment  statute]  pro-
motes the beliefs of some theistic sects to the detriment of
others, the statute violates the fundamental First Amendment
principle  .  . . that a state must be neutral in its treat-
ment of religions."

"Whatever 'science' may be, 'creation' as the term  is  used
in  the  statute  involves  religion,  and  the  teaching of
'creation-science' and 'creationism' as contemplated by  the
statute  involves teaching 'tailored to the principles' of a
particular religious sect or group of sects."

"As it is ordinarily understood, the term  'creation'  means
the  beginning into existence of mankind and of the universe
and implies a divine creator.  While all religions  may  not
teach  the  existence  of  a  supreme  being,  a belief in a
supreme being (a creator) is generally considered  to  be  a
religious tenet."

(End of excerpts.)

Some of you may question why I put this on the  space  list.
If  so,  then  you  should  become  better  informed on what
"creationism" holds as its beliefs.  You should  also  check
up  on the positions of the National Academy of Sciences and
of the American Association for the Advancement  of  Science
on  this  issue.  Even President Reagan has himself come out
and made a statement on this issue.

I have been involved with the ACLU on this matter  for  some
time.   I lobbied in the Louisiana legislature in the spring
when an attempt was made to repeal the  law  (repeal  passed
21-19 in the state Senate and failed 61-26 in the House).  I
have read the creationist books and I have talked with  some
of  their  lobbyists and supporters, including Wendell Bird,
their best-known legal counsel.  Although it is from a prac-
tical point of view probably true that the creationists will
stop once Genesis replaces biology in the  science  classes,
some  of  the  areas of interest to this list which could be
affected in the long term include: the age of the  universe,
the formation of stars, the speed of light, the constancy of
the rate of decay of radioactive substances,  the  existence
of  life  somewhere else than the earth, the appropriateness
of planning a solution  to  dwindling  resources  on  earth,
biology, geology, astronomy, and physics.  This is no joke!

Louisiana Attorney General Guste has  said  that  the  state
will  appeal  Judge  Duplantier's  ruling, for the following
reason:

"We feel that we have an  obligation  to  support  the  laws
written by the Legislature unless they're patently unconsti-
tutional. . . .  And we don't feel that this law is patently
unconstitutional.  Nowhere does it involve itself with reli-
gion.  It has to do with science just like Darwinism is,  at
best, a scientific theory."

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

17-Jan-85  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #76
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 76

Today's Topics:
			     dining in space
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 16 Jan 85  2252 PST
From: Ron Goldman <ARG@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: dining in space
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

n046  1150  15 Jan 85
BC-ASTROFOOD
By ROBERT REINHOLD
c. 1985 N.Y. Times News Service
    HOUSTON - Remember the bad old days of space travel, when astronauts
had to subsist on pastelike food sucked from toothpaste tubes, graham
crackers squashed into cubes and insipid little dried-beef sandwiches
they had to rehydrate with their saliva? Well, all that has changed.
During the next mission, tentatively scheduled for Jan. 23, the crew
of the space shuttle Discovery will be consuming comparatively normal
dishes such as green beans with mushrooms and meatballs with barbecue
sauce. Since the mission is primarily a military one, its duration is
a secret.
    Much of the food is bought right off the shelf in groceries in the
Houston area and freeze-dried or repackaged. All the space traveler
has to do now is float over to the galley, squirt six ounces of water
into a food pack, heat and serve.
    What has made this possible is the realization that scientists'
initial apprehensions - particularly the belief that weightlessness
would make it difficult to chew and swallow food - were groundless
and that space travel requires no special diet. Astronauts require
only safe, nutritious fare that is easy to prepare. Indeed, 12 hours
before each flight the shuttle is loaded with fresh bananas, oranges,
peaches, carrots, celery, bread and the like for the first few days.
Since the orbiter has no refrigerator, the astronauts rely on
packaged foods later in the flight.
    ''We try to use as much commercially available food as we can,''
said Rita Rapp, manager of the shuttle's food system, who has been
with the National Aeronautics and Space Administration since 1961 and
who worked on meals for the Apollo program in 1966. ''For years the
crew have been saying they want to eat everyday things from the
grocery store.''
    ''It just shows that people like what they are familiar with,''
added Connie Stadler, a dietician for Technology Inc., the contractor
that prepares and tests the food at the NASA kitchen here.
    The current crew might be eating breakfast rolls from Sara Lee,
diced pineapple from Del Monte, chocolate instant breakfast from
Carnation or M&M peanuts from Mars Inc. They can also spice things up
with taco sauce, ketchup, barbecue sauce and other condiments, which
come in the familiar cellophane packets offered by fast-food outlets.
    One of the main lessons learned in more than two decades of space
flight is that the body requires much the same nutrition intake 195
nautical miles above the earth as on its surface. The menu provides
normal recommended daily allowances of protein, vitamins, calcium,
phosphorous and other essentials. Because of the energy astronauts
expend, even in a weightless environment, they must also maintain
their normal caloric intake to preserve body weight.
    At the same time improvements in toilet facilities have ended the
need for the low-residue diet imposed on early space travelers; the
shuttle crew can eat fibrous items such as bran flakes and granola
for breakfast.
    The menus consists of five basic food types:
    -Thermostabilized - A fancy term for canned. Many off-the-shelf
canned goods such as tuna and chocolate pudding are used. They may be
in hard aluminum tins or in flexible metal envelopes called retort
pouches.
    -Intermediate moisture - Low-moisture foods such as dried peaches or
apricots, packed in plastic.
    -Rehydratable - Prepared foods from which water has been removed by
freeze-drying or sublimation, or dried foods such as cereals. They
are rehydrated before eating.
    -Natural form - Fresh foods, eggs, cookies, bread and the like.
    -Beverages - Powdered apple, grape and other drinks, including -
still - that space pioneer, Tang.
    The rehydratable foods require the most processing at NASA. Dishes
such as cauliflower with cheese, diced chicken and scrambled eggs are
prepared and cooked first, usually in batches of 200 servings. Then
they are placed on shelves in a freeze drier, where the moisture is
sucked out; they are canned for later use. (In some cases ordinary
commercial freeze-dried food made for backpackers is used.)
    When the food is needed for a launch, the cans are taken to a
special ''clean room,'' which is enclosed by a thick plastic curtain
and in which technicians garbed in hospital gowns and face masks
prepare them for final use. Cleanliness is especially important to
preclude gastrointestinal illness in flight.
    In the clean room each serving, which has been carefully weighed, is
placed in a specially designed food pack, a squared-off cup made of
an injection-molded high-density polyethylene. Plastic lids are put
on, and each item is flushed with nitrogen to drive out decay-causing
oxygen. The whole packet is then sealed under vacuum. The container
has a small indentation in the base through which a large-gauge
needle is later used to inject water for rehydration at mealtime in
flight. Powdered beverages are packaged in the same containers. Water
is produced by the orbiter's fuel cells, which generate electricity
by combining hydrogen and oxygen, yielding water as a byproduct.
    The meals cost about $50 a day for each crew member, the cost of the
food itself being trivial compared with the processing and testing.
Breakfast and lunch cost about $12.50 each and dinner $25.
    As for taste, Col. Robert L. Stewart, the specialist who, on the
February 1984 mission, maneuvered in space using a jet pack, said,
''It was very good - the dehydrated vegetables certainly tasted as
good as frozen vegetables from the store.'' He said the crew's
favorites included the dehydrated shrimp cocktail and most of the
irradiated foods, particularly the beefsteak. No one liked broccoli,
he said, ''but then we weren't broccoli eaters on the ground.'' The
colonel said he did not fancy powdered eggs either, so he mixed it
with taco sauce. According to Stewart, space flight did not affect
appetites but seemed to affect the taste buds. ''On the ground we
liked the sweet fruit juices, such as mango,'' he recalled. ''In
orbit we generally found them too sweet.''
    Beverages continue to pose a problem. Fruit juices do not
reconstitute well after dehydration, and there is still no dried-milk
product that can withstand vacuum packaging and still taste good. It
is impossible to chill the drinks; there are no facilities in the
craft (future shuttles may be equipped with refrigerators). It might
be possible to freeze substances outside the craft in the extreme
temperatures of space, but only on the side away from the sun - and
the shuttle's attitude in flight changes.
    For every mission the food staff recommends a combination of dishes,
rotating through different foods every seven days, with the menus
repeating after the first week. Crew members are not obliged to
follow the schedule, however, and several do not: Some eat regular
meals at regular intervals; others prefer to snack. After astronauts
complained about the set menus, a ''pantry'' with extra items was
added. Special requests are honored if possible, such as that of the
astronaut - Miss Rapp will not say which one - who asked for trail
mix. Thus far no special meals have been provided for religious or
medical reasons.
    Because unexpected emergencies can interfere with mundane tasks such
as eating, Miss Rapp urges crew members to eat on schedule lest they
become hungry while attending to duties.
    On board, meal preparation takes 30 to 60 minutes. The astronauts
wash their hands in a hemispheric plastic wash station attached to
the galley. The galley, installed on the middeck of the shuttle
cabin, resembles galleys aboard commercial airliners. The meal
packages are removed from storage and those that require rehydration
are placed in a rack. Crew members dial the proper number of ounces
of water required and push in the rack, automatically puncturing the
seals and injecting water. Then items are placed in a convection oven
above for heating to 180 degrees Fahrenheit.
    That is not hot enough to permit real cooking, not that shuttle
crews have the time for such diversions. On the prolonged space
flights expected in the future, NASA officials anticipate that some
astronauts will want to cook as a form of recreation. Psychological
studies of people wintering in Antarctica and other remote places
have found that food can be an important reward for effort and serves
as a psychological anchor in an otherwise detached and rootless
environment. For these reasons administrators are considering cooking
facilities in space vehicles so that a future space traveler, hit
with the urge for a medium-rare steak and baked potato, could have
just that.
    Longer flights will require closer attention to physiology. During
the lengthy Skylab flights in 1973 and 1974 medical tests showed that
crew members suffered a ''negative calcium balance'' - they lost bone
mass - so calcium supplements may have to be added for long flights.
Apart from that, space travelers of the future can expect to make few
culinary sacrifices.
    

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

18-Jan-85  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #77
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 77

Today's Topics:
			     dining in space
			1985 NASA Launch Schedule
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 17 Jan 1985 10:54:39 PST
Subject: dining in space
From: Dave Dyer       <DDYER@USC-ISIB.ARPA>
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA


NO REFRIGERATOR!  Jeesh!  Whats an astronaut to do if he craves
a cold beer after a tough EVA?
-------

------------------------------

Date: 18-Jan-85 02:50 PST
From: William Daul - Augmentation Systems - McDnD  <WBD.TYM@OFFICE-2.ARPA>
Subject: 1985 NASA Launch Schedule
To: space@mit-mc.arpa
Message-ID: <TYM-WBD-676JV@OFFICE-2.ARPA>
Comment: This is from the January 12, 1985 SCIENCE NEWS

Date / Mission / Description

January 23

   Shuttle Mission 51-C (Discovery)

      classified mission

         DOD payload

February 20

   Shuttle mission 51-E (Challenger)

      TDRS-B

         Tracking and Data Relay Satellite (NASA)

      Telesat I

         communications satellite (Canada)

February

   Intelsat VA-B

      communications satellite (Intelsat)

1st quarter

   AF-16

      USAF payload

1st quarter

   Navy 22

      navigation satellite (DOD)

March 19

   Shuttle Mission 51-D (Discovery)

      LDEF-1 retrieval

         Long Duration Exposure Facility (NASA)

      Syncom IV-3

         communications satellite (Hughes)

April

   Intelsat VA-C

      communications satellite (Intelsat)

April 30

   Shuttle Mission 51-B (Challenger)

      Spacelab 3

         multidisciplinary (NASA)

      NUSAT

         ATC radar plotter (Weber State College)

      GLOMR

         Global Low-Orbit Message Relay (NASA/DOD)

May 30

   Shuttle Mission 51-G (Discovery)

      Spartan 1

         X-ray astronomy: deploy/retrieve (NRL)

      Telstar 3-D

         communications satellite (AT&T)

      Morelos A

         communications satellite (Mexico)

      Arabsat A

         communications satellite (Arab countries)

2nd quarter

   Navy 23

      navigation satellite (DOD)

July 9

   Shuttle Mission 51-F (Challenger)

      Spacelab 2

         multidisciplinary (NASA)

August 2

   Shuttle Mission 51-I (Discovery) *

      MSL-2

         Materials Processing Laboratory 2 (NASA)

      AUSSAT-1

         communications satellite (Australia)

      ASC-1

         communications satellite (Amer. Sat. Corp.)

      Syncom IV-4

         communications satellite (Hughes)

August

   Intelsat VA-D

      communications satellite (Intelsat)

August

   NOAA-G

      weather and search-and-rescue (NOAA)

September 18

   Suttle Mission 51-J (Atlantis) *

      classified mission

         DOD payload; first flight of Atlantis

3rd quarter

   AF-17

      USAF payload

October 9

   Shuttle Mission 61-A (Columbia) *

      Spacelab D-1

         multidisciplinary (Germany)

October 15

   Shuttle Mission 62-A (Discovery) *

      classified mission

         DOD payload; first Vandenberg launch

October

   GOES-G

      weather and environment (NOAA)

November 1

   Shuttle Mission 61-B (Challenger) *

      Palapa BR-2

         communications satellite (Indonesia)

      Morelos B

         communications satellite (Mexico)

      Satcom KU-1

         communications satellite (RCA)

      EOS-1

         electrophoresis (McDonnell Douglas)

November 27

   Shuttle Mission 51-L (Atlantis) *

      TDRS-C

         Tracking and Data Relay Satellite (NASA)

      AUSSAT-2

         communications satellite (Australia)

December

   San Marco D(l)

      atmosphere studies satellite (Italy/US)

4th quarter

   AF-18

      USAF payload

4th quarter

   FLTSATCOM-F6

      communications satellite (USN)

December 20

   Shuttle Mission 61-C (Columbia) *

      Westar VII

         communications satellite (Western Union)

      Satcom KU-2

         communications satellite (RCA)

      MSL-3

         Materials Science Laboratory 3 (NASA)

      EASE/ACCESS

         space-structures assembly test (NASA)

Space shuttle missions are presently designated by a three-character code 
(e.g., 51-C) rather than a Space Transportation System flight number (e.g., 
STS-15).  The first numberal indicates the last digit of the fiscal year (e.g.,
FY 1985); the second refers to the launch site ("1" is Kennedy Space Center in 
Florida, "2" is Vandenberg Air Force Base in California).  The letter indicates
the mission's original scheduled postion in the sequence of launches for that 
fiscal year.

* Shuttle missions beginning with 51-I were essentially firm but not formally 
approved by NASA at the time of SCIENCE NEWS's deadline.  Nominal launch dates 
and payloads may change.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

19-Jan-85  0432	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #78
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 78

Today's Topics:
	   Cassegrain Concentrator for GaAs Photovoltaic Cells
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 18 Jan 85 13:52:29 EST
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: Cassegrain Concentrator for GaAs Photovoltaic Cells
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

Science News (Vol 126, page 280) reports TRW has developed a small
concentrator for sunlight that focuses sunlight falling on a 30 cm^2 area
onto a GaAs solar cell with an area of only .25 square centimeters.  GaAs
is more efficient than silicon for solar cells, and can operate at higher
temperatures.  Previous designs for Earth-built solar power sattelites
have been forced to use flat GaAs cells to get reasonable power/weight
ratios, and even then were uneconomical.  The Cassegrainian system allows
100x less GaAs to be used.  The system requires a pointing accuracy of 1
to 2 degrees, some ten times better than flat arrays, but most satellites
already achieve this accuracy.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

21-Jan-85  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #79
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 79

Today's Topics:
			    Cosmic ray source
			      Cosmic, cont.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sunday, 20 January 1985 23:38:47 EST
From: Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa
To: space@s1-a.arpa
Subject: Cosmic ray source
Message-ID: <1985.1.21.4.29.38.Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa>


n070  1515  19 Jan 85
AM-COSMIC 2takes
Mystery Of Cosmic Ray Origin May Be Solved
By WALTER SULLIVAN
c.1985 N.Y. Times News Service
    NEW YORK - Astronomers believe they have discovered several sources
of cosmic rays, the penetrating radiation that bombards the Earth
from all directions. The origin of these high-energy particles has
been one of the most profound mysteries of the universe.
    One of the sources, Cygnus X-3, a two-star system believed to lie on
the outer fringes of the Milky Way, has been found to produce so much
of the higher-energy cosmic rays that it could account for the
galaxy's entire production of such rays.
    A number of scientists who attended a recent meeting of the American
Astronomical Society believe the discovery is a landmark in
astrophysics.
    Cosmic rays include the most powerful form of radiation known to
science. In space, they consist primarily of high-energy protons,
nuclei of hydrogen atoms, and when they strike the atmosphere they
generate showers of secondary particles that reach the Earth.
    The belief that a large portion of them originate in Cygnus X-3 is
based on observations, both from space and from the ground, showing
it to be a source of extremely energetic gamma rays.
    Cygnus X-3 is assumed to be a pulsar, a rapidly rotating star of
extreme density that circles and draws gas from a companion star.
Interactions between the two apparently act as a giant particle
accelerator of almost unbelievable efficiency.
    It is thought that the gamma rays from Cygnus X-3 are produced there
by protons of even higher energy. They would, for example, carry 10
million times the energy achieved by the world's most powerful atom
smasher, at Fermilab near Chicago.
    This great stellar accelerator generates gamma rays with energies as
great as 10 million billion electron volts. Gamma rays are the most
energetic form of electromagnetic waves and exist at the top end of
the spectrum that includes light waves. On hitting the Earth's
atmosphere, they create a cascade of particles that are absorbed and
thus never reach the Earth.
    Cosmic ray particles, on the other hand, do contribute to the
radiation environment to which all life on Earth is exposed.
    Scientists at the Astronomical Society meeting, held this past
week in Tucson, Ariz., pointed out that much remained to be learned
about how the particles are accelerated. Several methods were proposed,
most of them involving the interactions between a pulsar and stellar
companion.
    Other candidates for the high-energy cosmic ray production include a
perplexing object, Geminga, which has been recorded in X-rays and
gamma rays but not in radio waves, as well as the pulsar systems
known as Hercules X-1 and Vela X-1. All are also far out in the Milky
Way.
    The process at work in Cygnus X-3 or these other objects may not
account for other, extremely rare cosmic ray particles that carry as
much as 100 times more energy than those from Cygnus X-3. With so
much energy, they are little influenced by magnetism and thus must
come from their source in an almost straight line, unlike the great
majority of cosmic ray particles. It is suspected that they originate
beyond the Milky Way, but so few have been observed that their
sources have not yet been identified.
    When a high-energy gamma ray hits the top of the atmosphere it
generates a cascade of negatively and positively charged electrons
that then produce tiny light flashes.
    A number of ground-based arrays of light detectors have been
scanning the sky for such flashes. In Utah twin ''Fly's Eye''
detectors two miles apart are able to record the highest energy
cosmic rays and have detected gammas from Hercules X-1. Another
array, 33 feet in diameter, is operated by the Smithsonian
Astrophysical Observatory on Mount Hopkins near Tucson.
    Observations are also conducted at stations in the Soviet Union,
Japan, and Europe. Soviet scientists have proposed using large snow
fields as reflectors of the ultrashort flashes, and Italian
astrophysicists, performing such tests on their side of the
Matterhorn, have recorded several possible events.
    In the 1970s, according to Dr. Trevor C. Weekes, who conducts the
Smithsonian observations, Soviet astrophysicists began recording
high-energy gamma ray bursts from the direction of Cygnus X-3, but
their findings were largely ignored. Satellites had recorded a
4.8-hour cycle in X-ray emissions from that source, indicating that
that was the time it took for the neutron star to circle its stellar
companion.
    Gamma rays modulated by this cycle were detected by the Crimean
Astrophysical Observatory in the Soviet Union, the observatory on
Mount Hopkins, and mirrors of a solar energy facility of the Jet
Propulsion Laboratory in California. None, however, were of extremely
high energy.
    Then astronomers in Kiel, West Germany, recorded Cygnus X-3 gammas
with energies as high as one million billion electron volts, which
was soon confirmed by scientists at the University of Leeds in
England.
    Finally, as noted in Tucson by Dr. A.H. Hillas, of the Leeds group,
it was found that some of the gammas were even more energetic. These,
he believes, are generated by protons accelerated to 100 million
billion electron volts colliding with a gaseous envelope around the
nearby star. This would produce twin bursts of gamma rays as the
pulsar rotates.
    In a recent issue of the journal Nature, he proposed that in this
way Cygnus X-3 ''seems likely to be responsible'' for most of the
cosmic ray particles of that energy produced in the entire galaxy.
    At the Tucson meeting Dr. Kenneth Brecher of Boston University and
G. Chanmugam of Louisiana State University proposed that the
acceleration was performed by an intense electric field generated as
a disk of material falls into the pulsar, or neutron star.
    A group from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, based on
observations by High Energy Astronomy Observatory 3, deduced that the
neutron star within Cygnus X-3 generated a magnetic field 10,000
billion times stronger than that of the Earth and acted on particles
like the atom-smashing accelerators known as cyclotrons.
     nn
    
nyt-01-19-85 1821est
***************

------------------------------

Date: Sunday, 20 January 1985 23:59:21 EST
From: Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa
To: space@mit-mc.arpa
Subject: Cosmic, cont.
Message-ID: <1985.1.21.4.58.51.Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa>


n116  2202  19 Jan 85
AM-COSMIC Addatend
NYT NEW YORK: as cyclotrons.
    The Cygnus X-3 discovery has been a step-by-step process dating from
the initial detection of cosmic rays early in this century. Attempts
to produce a radiation-free environment for research were frustrated
by a form of radiation that penetrated even into deep mines.
    When, in 1912, the Austrian physicist Victor N. Hess sought to trace
the radiation's origin by ascending in a balloon, he found that
instead of becoming weaker, the radiation became more intense as he
rose. Because, like X-rays, the radiation was penetrating, it came to
be called cosmic ''rays.''
    It was found, however, that the radiation became more intense near
the poles, as though influenced by the Earth's magnetic field. This
showed that it consisted largely of electrically charged particles,
such as protons, rather than radiation akin to light waves, such as
X-rays and gamma rays. The protons are the nuclei of hydrogen atoms,
forming by far the most abundant form of matter in the universe. The
nuclei of heavier atoms are also detected in the rays, though far
less frequently.
    Because such cosmic ray particles are electrically charged, the
paths of all but the heaviest and most energetic are bent by magnetic
fields - not only that of the Earth but those throughout the solar
system and galaxy. As a result, they arrive uniformly from all
directions, providing no hint of their origin. It became evident,
however, that the weakest rays come from the Sun and it is suspected
that some of intermediate energy originated in great star explosions,
or supernovas.
    Early clues to distant sources came in the 1960s and early 1970s
from satellite observations of the heavens at X-ray wavelengths.
These revealed a number of pulsars - pulsing sources of radio waves
and X-rays assumed to be extremely dense, fast-spinning stars
surrounded by rotating magnetic fields of enormous intensity.
    It was proposed then that these fields throw off cosmic ray
particles like water droplets from a rotating sprinkler, but this
could not be confirmed and did not explain the very high energy rays.
    Attention focused on one such source, Cygnus X-3, in the
constellation Cygnus. It proved subject to catastrophic flareups at
radio wavelengths. For one month in 1972 it was, despite its great
distance, one of the most intense sources of radio emission in the
sky.
    
nyt-01-20-85 0101est
***************

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

23-Jan-85  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #80
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 80

Today's Topics:
		       They'll do it every time...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 85 16:38:05 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: They'll do it every time...
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

	Empty Space Talk
	R. Jeffrey Smith
Science Vol 227, 1/18/85, pg 276

Last month, when the Washington Post published secret information about
the forthcoming all-military flight of the space shuttle, it was
immediately accused by Secretary of Defense Caspar Weniberger of offering
"aid and comfort to the enemy."  But nothing in the Post's account, or in
similar stories appearing elsewhere, offers the Soviet Union infromation
that cannot be deduced from the voluminous unclassified literature
available to armchair analysts.  Nor were any truly sensitive data
revealed, such as how the satellite works or its precise technical
limitations.  This is freely admitted in private by knowledgeable
officials in the Department of Defense.

Why then did Weinberger make such a chilling accusation?  the most likely
explanation is that he wants to discourage reporting about satellites that
may be launched by the shuttle in the future, whose overall purpose could
effectively be masked.  This is not an unreasonable Defense Department
goal.  The trouble is that it seems senseless in this particular case,
especially when backed by government threats to investigate mere
speculation.

The Pentagon also botched its explanation of a policy for the release of
information about the forthcoming military shuttle mission, as well as those
to follow. Officials said that they will not reveal launch or flight
trajectories and altitudes for either the shuttle or its payload. This
information can readily be obtained by Soviet reconaissance ships and
intelligence satellites, but Air Force personnel claimed that its denial
would help confuse the Soviets and make their task more difficult. Instead
of offering this lame explanation, they might have revealed the real
purpose: to prevent an attack on the shuttle by foreign or domestic
terrorists during or shortly after its launch, and to forestall Soviet
countermeasures against flights intended solely for reconaissance rather
than satellite deployment.

++++ End

As HAL said in 2010, "Thank you for telling me the truth."
						- Dale Amon

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

29-Jan-85  0412	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #81
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 81

Today's Topics:
			     Nemesis location
			      Halley's comet
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Monday, 28 January 1985 08:25:42 EST
From: Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa
To: space@s1-a.arpa
Subject: Nemesis location
Message-ID: <1985.1.28.13.24.54.Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa>

n078  1708  27 Jan 85
BC-NEMESIS
By WALTER SULLIVAN
c.1985 N.Y. Times News Service
    NEW YORK - A possible location of Nemesis, the star blamed by some
scientists for mass extinctions on the Earth every 26 million years,
has been calculated to be in the constellation Draco, not far from
the Little Dipper.
    The calculation has been performed by Dr. Armand H. Delsemme, a
Belgian-born astronomer at the University of Toledo, in Ohio, based
on the orbits of comets that seem to have been disrupted from their
normal orbits.
    Delsemme has assumed that the orbits of the 126 comets least altered
by close passage of planets would still show the effects of
disruption by passage of a small star or very large planet through
the outer reaches of the solar system.
    According to a group at the University of California, in Berkeley,
periodic penetration of the cloud of comets surrounding the solar
system by a star they have named Nemesis scatters the comets, sending
millions of them plunging toward the Earth and other planets.
    The resulting impacts, they theorize, would account for periodic
extinctions including that of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago.
    Delsemme has calculated the most probable path of the star around
the sun from a lopsided distribution of comet orbits. He has
estimated the star's present position based on the assumption that
the last mass extinction occurred 13 million years ago.
    Several astronomers have said they will search that location for a
faint red dwarf star. Delsemme, however, does not believe that it has
to be a star. It could, he says, be a giant planet 20 to 60 times
more massive than Jupiter. Such an object might glow sufficiently at
infrared wavelengths to be observable.
    A surprising number of the comets in one region of space are
circling the Sun opposite to the direction of most solar system
objects, which Delsemme sees as a clue to the path of Nemesis.
    To produce its effect on the comets, he said in a telephone
interview, the object had to move through the comet cloud at
relatively slow velocity, as would be true of an object tied
gravitationally to the sun. A one-time visitor from distant space
would plunge through the cloud too fast to produce the observed
changes, he added.
    He said the new timetable of extinctions, by David M. Raup and J.
John Sepkoski, of the University of Chicago, appears to rule out
previous estimates of the recurrence rate that exceeded 30 million
years. These were based on the timetable of impacts sufficient to
leave giant craters on the earth's surface or on periodic passages of
the solar system through the debris-cluttered disk of the Milky Way
Galaxy.
    

------------------------------

Date: Tuesday, 29 January 1985 07:16:51 EST
From: Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa
To: space@s1-a.arpa
Subject: Halley's comet
Message-ID: <1985.1.29.12.12.53.Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa>


n144  0212  29 Jan 85
BC-SCIENCE-WATCH Undated
(ScienceTimes)
c.1985 N.Y. Times News Service
    Astronomers atop Hawaii's highest volcano have made what they
believe to be the first infrared observations of Halley's Comet. From
the results they estimate the radius of its nucleus to be four miles.
    Previous estimates of comet nucleus diameters have ranged from 1,000
feet for smaller comets to as much as 40 miles for a few very rare
ones. Until recently it has only been possible to guess the diameters
because, by the time comets penetrate far enough into the Solar
System to be easily observed, they are enveloped in a cloud, or
''coma,'' that hides the nucleus.
    Radar observations have provided clues to the sizes of small comets
passing near the Earth but cannot detect such small targets at great
distances.
    The astronomers in Hawaii used Britain's giant infrared telescope,
which has a reflecting dish 150 feet in diameter. It is among a
growing number of observatories clustered on the summit of Mauna Kea,
an extinct volcano almost 14,000 feet high on the island of Hawaii.
Because the air above it contains very little water vapor, which
absorbs infrared radiation, the site is ideal for such observations.
    In two runs of 25 minutes each the telescope was programmed to
follow the comet's predicted path. A nearby area of sky was viewed to
record background glow that could then be subtracted from the comet
scanning.
    Brightness of the nucleus ''would imply'' a radius of four miles,
the astronomers reported to the Central Bureau for International
Telegrams at the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory in Cambridge,
England. They assumed a plausible reflectivity, or ''albedo,'' for
the nucleus and noted that a contribution from light scattering by
dust ''cannot be excluded.''
    The report was submitted by astronomers from Leicester University,
the Royal Observatory in Edinburgh and the University of Kent.
    
nyt-01-29-85 0513est
***************

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

01-Feb-85  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #82
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 82

Today's Topics:
			      State of Union
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 31 Jan 85 22:08:46 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: State of Union
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

Does anyone know when the State of the Union address is this year?

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

05-Feb-85  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #83
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 83

Today's Topics:
	  The space station program stretched out in the budget
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 4 Feb 1985 13:06:14-EST
From: glenn at ll-vlsi
To: space@mit-mc

Subject: The space station program stretched out in the budget

    The Feb 4 wall street journal details the effect of the new budget on the
NASA space station.  Unfortunately the second year funding is being cut by 18%
from $280 million to $230M.  This will stretch out the expected date of in
orbit completion to about 1995 from the target year of 1992.   There was some
good news though, overall NASA outlays will rise to $7.7 billion, up 6% (about
2% in constant dollars).

    There is one other bad result of this stretch out.  The Europeans just
agreed to put the money for their portion of the space station.  There was
one condition, that there be an agreement with the US which fixes the
main timetable of the project.  They want this because in both the Spacelab
and Solar Polar projects the Europeans started joint projects with this
country, and found the US backing out of large portions of the deal at later
dates.  The effect of launch delays etc on those two programs
was to increase the ESA's costs by about 50%.

   OK, now here we are in year 2 of this program and already the cutting is
occurring from the budget side.  With everything but the military being cut
somewhat in this budget I doubt that the congress will go along with even this
amount.  What is going to happen in later years when the peak station
funding is expected to be $1.2 billion.  Unfortunately I suspect that this
will become another shuttle program stretched out so that the final
result takes about 50% longer than expected, while the project size is
cut and the end program made to be less useful than envisioned.  How can
other countries agree to work with the US in space when the goverment never
seems to make a plan and stick to it.


                                             Glenn Chapman

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

09-Feb-85  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #84
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 84

Today's Topics:
			      PARTI Electure
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:       Fri, 08 Feb 85 10:32:46 EST
From:       "Bob Czech" <939@NJIT-EIES.MAILNET>
To:         space@mit-mc
cc:         *LISA*@NJIT-EIES.MAILNET
Subject:    PARTI Electure
Message-ID: <M20.9040@NJIT-EIES.MAILNET>

Blast off into space this spring on PARTI on The Source by joining the
ELECTURE "SPACE - Humanizing the Universe."  Dr. Paul Levinson
will lead PARTIcipants in an interactive exploration of how access
to new dimensions of the universe may change our outlook on the
future.  Using material from his forthcoming books, _Mind at Large:
Knowing in the Technological Age_ and a science fiction novel, _A
Deuce of a Time_, Dr. Levinson will discuss the implications of
space travel, the role of technology in cognitive evolution, the
pros and cons of the "star wars" defense, and the very nature of
time and space.  A prolific writer on media, technology, and space,
Dr. Levinson is also an expert on the implications of electronic
communications systems and their use as educational media.  In
addition to being on the faculty of the Media Studies program at
the New School for Social Research he is the Director of Connected
Education and an online professor for the Western Behavioral
Sciences Institute.  He has published extensively on
technology and its implications for society.  In inviting Source
members to consider the issues which he will raise in the
ELECTURE on "Space" Dr. Levinson says, "I like to
think that such thoughts may have a certain uniqueness in the long
stretch of human history:  they may be among the last thoughts
about the human role in space to be thought before we went on
to achieve that destiny."

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

12-Feb-85  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #85
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 85

Today's Topics:
		  SPACE digest gateway at MORDOR (S1-C)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Feb 85 15:58:26 pst
From: John Bruner <jdb@mordor.ARPA>
Message-Id: <8502112358.AA25974@mordor.ARPA>
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: SPACE digest gateway at MORDOR (S1-C)

I have set up a gateway between the ARPANET SPACE digest and
the USENET newsgroups "net.columbia" and "net.space" here on
"mordor" (S1-C).  I believe that the gateway is loop-free;
however, should you start seeing articles which are repeated,
you should flame at me (mordor!jdb, jdb@mordor) rather than
SPACE-REQUEST@MIT-MC.
--
  John Bruner (S-1 Project, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory)
  MILNET: jdb@mordor.ARPA [jdb@s1-c]	(415) 422-0758
  UUCP: ...!ucbvax!dual!mordor!jdb 	...!decvax!decwrl!mordor!jdb

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

13-Feb-85  0406	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #86
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 86

Today's Topics:
	      "Severe Erosion" of Shuttle's Market Position
			     Re: Space Burial
		       Re: Re: Re: Shuttle Project?
		       Re: Re: Re: Shuttle Project?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 12 Feb 1985 19:05:03-EST
From: glenn at ll-vlsi
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: "Severe Erosion" of Shuttle's Market Position

The Feb 7 '84 edition of Aerospace Daily reported some statements of
James Beggs, NASA's administrator, to a congressional committee.  In these
he stated that he was not now certain that a fifth orbiter would be needed
because of a recent "severe erosion" in the space shuttle's market position.
In the past 14 months the European Space Agency's Ariane series has captured
50% of the commercial launch contracts, with the Shuttle getting the remainder.
In addition the Defense Department has decided to put 2 launches per year on
single use boosters while NOAO has decided to use Titan II's for 3 up comming
weather satelite orbitings.  With the Shuttle launch prices rising
by 1988 this may have an even larger impact.  Each reduction of launch level
over what they had expected for the Shuttle will increase it's costs to NASA.  
The fifth shuttle now was looked on as a way of keeping a fully operational
fleet into the year 2000 decade if it is built several years from now. (This
will be necessary because a shuttle follow on cannot come before the current
ships have exceeded their expected lifetimes.)  Meanwhile he said that the
Ariane 5 project, now funded by the ESA, would extend Europe's space
capabilities considerably.

Let us hope that these statements do not give some space opponents more
ammunition to try and kill the fifth shuttle.

                                         Glenn Chapman

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Feb 85 16:30:42 pst
Message-Id: <8502130030.AA01727@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: mot!al (Al Filipski)
Subject: Re: Space Burial

>Yes, you can be buried in space!  Just have someone send your cremated remains
>("cremains," as they were called in the news story on NPR this morning) to SSI
>(not to be confused with the Princeton-based Space Studies Institute, also
>called SSI), and they will further reduce them to fit into a capsule
>approximately 1" by 1-1/4" which will be inscribed with your name, social
>security number, and (optional) religious symbol of your choice.  Then a
>capsule containing several thousand of these will be placed into low earth
>orbit (through the Van Allen Belt, which has very little satellite traffic).

Compact little  shapes? (like what the Kelvans did to the crew of the 
Enterprise) Low Earth orbit? What a drag. I think I'll wait until 
they can give my carcass enough energy to leave the solar system. I
can't decide whether I'd like to have my arms outstretched like
Superman or maybe even go feet first. Imparting a stately slow roll to
the body might be dignified but I'd be mad if they set that sucker tumbling
arsey-varsey. Real comforting, thinking about gliding along that
infinite mean free path until you sublimate.  Better than a pyramid.

--------------------------------
Alan Filipski, UNIX group, Motorola Microsystems, Tempe, AZ U.S.A
{seismo | ihnp4 } ! ut-sally ! oakhill ! mot ! al
--------------------------------
she canna' take much more o' this, captain

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Feb 85 19:30:38 pst
Message-Id: <8502130330.AA02529@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Shuttle Project?

>>       but if the string is played in vacuum, then the friction of the air
>> is removed, and the sutain is much longer.
>
>Sustain of what?  No air -- no sound.
>--
>Richard Foulk           (..islenet!bigtuna!richard)

	Its an electric guitar, so it doesn't need air to create sound.
	(use an amp)

Peter Barada            ima!pbear!peterb

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Feb 85 22:18:40 pst
Message-Id: <8502130618.AA02966@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: intelca!cem (Chuck McManis)
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Shuttle Project?

> 	but if the string is played in vacuum, then the friction of the air
> is removed, and the sutain is much longer.
> 						Peter Barada
> 						ima!pbear!peterb

I believe this should read, "If the string is played in vacuum, then the
medium for the sound waves is removed and the sustain is zero, as it never
gets to pickup."
	-Chuck
                                            - - - D I S C L A I M E R - - - 
{ihnp4,fortune}!dual\                     All opinions expressed herein are my
        {qantel,idi}-> !intelca!cem       own and not those of my employer, my
 {ucbvax,hao}!hplabs/                     friends, or my avocado plant. :-}

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

14-Feb-85  0405	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #87
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 87

Today's Topics:
		       Re: Re: Re: Shuttle Project?
			       Space burial
			  New optical telescopes
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Feb 85 07:41:43 pst
Message-Id: <8502131541.AA04304@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: umcp-cs!chris (Chris Torek)
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Shuttle Project?

Re: "if it's in a vacuum, how can you call it sustain?"  --Easy: whoever
said you couldn't use an inductive pickup?  (Well OK that *will* damp the
vibration eventually, but...)

Can we just forget this whole topic?
-- 
In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Univ of MD Comp Sci Dept (+1 301 454 4251)
UUCP:	{seismo,allegra,brl-bmd}!umcp-cs!chris
CSNet:	chris@umcp-cs		ARPA:	chris@maryland

------------------------------

Date: Wed 13 Feb 85 14:39:15-EST
From: Rob Austein <SRA@MIT-XX.ARPA>
Subject: Space burial
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Office: [NE43-502] 545 Technology Square, Cambridge MA 02139; (617) 253-7341

>   I think I'll wait until they can give my carcass enough energy to
>   leave the solar system.

You can get that now.  All you need is to find a company that'll
outfit your cadaver with a light sail.  'Course, you might have a bit
of a problem making planetfall at .999c ....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Feb 85 12:27:50 pst
From: Ross Finlayson <rsf@Pescadero>
Subject: New optical telescopes
To: space@mit-mc

n104  2041  11 Feb 85
BC-TELESCOPES 2takes
(Science Times)
By WALTER SULLIVAN
c.1985 N.Y. Times News Service
    NEW YORK - Radical new techniques for making giant telescopes are
being developed, holding the promise of opening up new views of the
universe. These large-scale optical devices, some of them planned to
be more than twice the size of the biggest telescopes operating
today, will be able to look far enough out across the universe, and
therefore back in time, to record its infancy. They should also be
able to look deep into the core of the Milky Way and into other
galaxies to seek out the nature of the mysterious ''engines''
generating vast amounts of energy there.
    Conventional telescopes have been limited in size by the extreme
difficulty of casting very large blocks of glass, polishing them into
large mirrors of exactly the necessary shape, and then maintaining
that shape despite the effects of temperature and sag as they sweep
the skies. The new telescopes, all of them proven in tests but not
yet in full-scale operation, are being made possible by such
innovations as mass production of large mirrors in swirling baths of
molten glass, liquid mirrors formed of large, fast-spinning basins of
mercury, and the use of multiple conventional telescopes linked
together in the fashion of the large arrays of antennas used in radio
astronomy.
    How soon the new methods will be put to use will depend on the rate
at which funds become available, and on success in overcoming
problems that will inevitably arise in bringing the new technologies
involved to full implementation.
    The telescope most likely to achieve ''first light'' - the initial
passage of starlight through its optical system - is the 10-meter
(394-inch) telescope to be built in Hawaii by the California
Institute of Technology and the University of California. The project
seems almost assured by a conditional offer of $70 million to Cal
Tech by the foundation formed by the late W.M. Keck, founder of the
Superior Oil Co. His son, Howard B. Keck, is a trustee of the
California Institute of Technology.
    The telescope, to be known as the Keck Observatory, would be far
larger than the Soviet Union's six-meter reflector in the Caucasus
mountains or the five-meter one on Mount Palomar in California,
currently the world's two largest reflecting telescopes. The mirror
for the Keck Observatory, formed of 36 hexagonal segments, would be
twice the width of the one at Palomar.
    According to Dr. Marvin L. Goldberger, president of Caltech, it will
''provide answers to the most challenging and basic questions of the
universe.'' Among them, he said, are ''how the universe originated,
whether or not the universe is continually expanding or will
ultimately fall back on itself, why and how galaxies and stars formed
and evolved, and how the four basic forces of nature controlled the
early history of the universe.''
    The mirror's segments will have to be formed in various asymmetrical
shapes to form a parabolic mirror when fitted together. They are to
be produced by a novel ''bend and polish'' method developed by Dr.
Jerry E. Nelson of the University of California, at Berkeley. The
glass is distorted according to an elaborate mathematical formula
developed by his colleague, Dr. Jacob Lubliner, and is then ground by
a machine producing curvature similar to that on the inside of a
sphere. When the tension is removed the glass springs into the
desired part of the mirror's shape.
    During observations the segments will have to be constantly adjusted
to maintain the entire assemblage's precise shape despite sag and
temperature effects. Such a system is under development at Berkeley
as well as a way to cut the finished segments into hexagons without
altering them.
    To test the grinding method, a small-scale segment has been ground
there; a full-scale one, two meters in diameter, is in the final
polishing stages in optical shops of the National Optical Astronomy
Observatories in Tucson, Ariz., which administers several national
observatories including the one on nearby Kitt Peak.
    A site for the Keck Observatory has been allocated on a 13,600-foot
ridge atop Mauna Kea, a supposedly extinct volcano on the island of
Hawaii. It would join a growing population of observatories there,
including a 7.5-meter reflector planned by the Japanese. As pointed
out by Dr. Jesse L. Greenstein of Caltech in the February issue of
Physics Today, the Keck telescope, with its huge light-collecting
area, will be able to conduct observations far beyond the reach of
the Space Telescope to be launched in 1986.
    A completely different approach has been proposed for the even
larger New Technology National Telescope that would probably be built
either on Mauna Kea or on 10,720-foot Mount Graham, 76 miles
northeast of Tucson. Its four mirrors, with the combined power of a
15-meter telescope, would ride in a single mount as in the Multiple
Mirror Telescope on Mount Hopkins south of Tucson.
    It has been the success of that novel assembly, operated jointly by
the University of Arizona's Steward Observatory and the Smithsonian
Astrophysical Observatory, that led to the choice of such a design
over the one planned for the California telescope, although both
approaches were considered viable.
    The six mirrors of the Multiple Mirror Telescope on Mount Hopkins,
each 1.8 meters (72 inches) in diameter, are installed like guns on a
large naval gunmount and their images combined by a system of optics.
    Mirrors for the National New Technology Telescope, or NNTT, would be
more than four times as wide. Dr. Roger Angel and Dr. Neville Woolf
of the Steward Observatory in Tucson believe they can minimize their
cost by casting the mirrors from molten glass in a rapidly rotating
electric oven. A bowl of fast-spinning fluid assumes the parabolic
shape required for mirrors that focus light waves from a distant
source to a single point.
    A two-meter (79-inch) mirror has already been cast by rotating the
oven 16 times a minute, although, according to Woolf, it took some
time to find a technician who could ride the control console of the
spinning oven without becoming dizzy.
    This will not be a problem with the giant new oven, capable of
casting mirrors eight meters wide. It will spin 10 times a minute
under remote control. Housing for the oven is being built under the
university stadium.
    While the glass surface that solidifies as the oven cools is
parabolic, it is far from perfect enough to serve as a mirror. For
further polishing a computer-controlled lapping device has been
designed to produce such a surface, rather than one that is spherical.
    Budget cuts and constraints in Washington have diminished short-term
prospects for the NNTT, particularly if the California project moves
ahead, but development of the requisite technology is proceeding in
expectation that it will ultimately be built.
    Meanwhile, Canadian astronomers have revived a long-discussed scheme
for producing large mirrors by spinning basins of mercury. In 1924,
as Mars began to make an unusually close approach to the Earth, David
Todd, head of the astronomy department at Amherst College, proposed
rotating a mercury-filled basin 50 feet wide at the bottom of an
abandoned mine shaft in Chile.
    The shaft was so located that Mars would pass directly overhead, and
Todd said his instrument would make it appear only two miles away,
making it possible to determine whether the planet was inhabited.
Astronomers ridiculed the scheme, saying atmospheric effects would
produce a meaningless blur.
    Nevertheless, astronomers at Laval University in Quebec have been
testing such mirrors. E.F. Borra of that group has proposed that
mirrors 30 meters (98 feet) wide could be achieved, and some with a
width of 1.65 meters (65 inches) have been tested.
    The Canadians reported to an international conference on very large
telescopes in Garching, West Germany, last April that the results
''seem to indicate that large liquid mirrors are feasible.'' To
produce a sharp image, however, the rotation must be extremely stable.
    Such a mirror would have to be aimed vertically, but by means of
movable mirrors it could scan the rotating canopy of the heavens. The
cost could be kept very low by placing the mirror at the bottom of a
standard farm silo.
    The Steward Observatory group hopes its spinning oven can produce
mirrors not only for the National New Technology Telescope but for
its own projected observatory on Mount Graham and for a
multi-telescope European observatory in Chile.
    The European Southern Observatory, based at Garching near Munich but
with its prime observing site at La Silla, Chile, is building a
3.5-meter (138-inch) New Technology Telescope as the final step
toward a Very Large Telescope, which would consist of four
eight-meter telescopes with the combined power of a 16-meter
instrument.
    The tentative plan is to align the telescopes 30 meters (98 feet)
apart on a summit in northern Chile. They would be linked optically
to produce combined images. At infrared wavelengths they could also
be used in pairs for extremely detailed surveys of such critical
areas as the cores of the Milky Way and other galaxies, using the
technique known as interferometry.
    The core of the Milky Way cannot be observed at visual wavelengths
because of intervening dust and gas. The California plan provides for
ultimate construction on Mauna Kea of a second large telescope linked
to the first for similar interferometric observations.
    Interferometry has enabled radio astronomers, using multiple
antennas, to map distant sources of radio emission in extraordinary
detail. Because wavelengths of light are much shorter the technology
is far more demanding. The distances traveled by light waves from two
telescopes, when brought together to produce the interference
phenomenon, must be identical with high precision.
    A French group led by Antoine Labeyrie has been testing this
approach at the observatory of CERGA (Centre d'Etudes et de Recherche
Geodynamiques et Astronomiques) in the Alps overlooking the French
Riviera. Two 10-inch telescopes are held in spherical mounts that can
be rotated in the manner that a circus animal, on its back, spins a
large ball with its feet.
    ''Reproducing the natural walking motion of animals requires very
sophisticated software,'' the meeting in Garching was told. The
mounts ride on a north-south rail line that permits various
separations. Trials at distances up to 52 feet have shown the method
applicable at infrared wavelengths (longer than those of visible
light) but susceptible to such subtle effects as Earth tremors that
vary path lengths through the array.
    For Europe's Very Large Telescope the group has proposed an array of
four instruments in spherical mounts riding on a grid of north-south,
east-west rail lines. Several U.S. observatories hope to use
interferometry between smaller telescopes to track star movements
precisely enough to see if they are influenced by planetary
companions.
    The University of Texas has been planning a 7.6-meter telescope in
West Texas but its prospects have been dimmed by the drop in oil
revenues that account for much of the university's income.
    
nyt-02-11-85 2353est
**********

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

15-Feb-85  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #88
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 88

Today's Topics:
		    leaving the net for several months
		       Re: Re: Re: Shuttle Project?
			   NASA doesn't give in
		    Buried 6000 miles ABOVE the ground
			Flight by Muscle and Brain
		      Tales from the Orbital Crypt 
			  Re: Orphaned Response
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 85 07:36:45 pst
Message-Id: <8502141536.AA08156@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: leaving the net for several months

due to an accident breaking my leg and an arm, china visit commitments,
and usenix commitment, i have to stop posting
nasa toc information and other nasa point of contact info. my keystokes
have to go into my computer research.  i will try to read the group
when i'm having a lull, but the best i can do is designate someone else in
nasa to answer questions when they come.  several requests such as
one for a solar system simulation and others, i am still trying to fill,
but i cannot take new ones.  see you after june usenix! let's make this
the best.

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,vortex}!ames!aurora!eugene
  emiya@ames-vmsb.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 85 07:48:43 pst
Message-Id: <8502141548.AA08284@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: amdahl!ems (E. Michael Smith)
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Shuttle Project?

> > 
> > 	but if the string is played in vacuum, then the friction of the air
> > is removed, and the sutain is much longer.
> > 
> 
> I believe this should read, "If the string is played in vacuum, then the
> medium for the sound waves is removed and the sustain is zero, as it never
> gets to pickup."
> 

I think the original was in the context of an *ELECTRIC* guitar or
some such, where the pickup is magnetic anyway.  The string still
vibrates, the mag pickup still works, the sustain of the vibrations
will be longer, the tone might even change...

Why not try something where a magnetic pickup us used to 'listen to space'
or some such by picking up ambiant  mag  fields?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 85 07:51:54 pst
Message-Id: <8502141551.AA08324@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: kvue!spangler (Lance Spangler)
Subject: NASA doesn't give in

	It seems some people never forget.  This article was gleaned from a
United Press International wire story, which has been rewritten to avoid the
conflicts some USENET'ers are worrying about these days. 

(Washington) --- The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA to 
nearly everyone except newspaper writers) announced today (2-12) that the 
agency has refused to take back the Distinguished Service Medal awarded to 
German rocket engineer Arthur Rudolph.  You may remember, Rudolph left the 
United States last year after a Justice Department probe into his World War 
Two activities in Germany. 
 	He voluntarily surrendered his American citizenship amid charges 
he had used slave labor to build Nazi V-2 rockets during the last years of
World War Two.  According to Justice Department spokesmen at the time of the 
investigation, it was believed he participated in the persecution of laborers
from concentration camps from 1943 to 1945. 
	Rudolph worked for NASA after US authorities brought him to the United
States following the end of WW II.  He was a director of the Saturn 5 rocket
project and played a key role in putting men on the moon. 
	The whole affair came about after Elizabeth Holtzman, a New York 
District Attorney wrote to President Reagan, requesting that the medal be 
withdrawn. 
	But the Chief of Special Events for NASA, Eugene Marianetti said in 
a letter to Holtzman that...quoting now..."To rescind the medal would serve
no useful purpose since it has nothing in common with the allegation brought
against him." 
 
PERSONAL OPINION FOLLOWS - 
	I for one am glad to see a government official refuse to bow to the 
pressure of a special interest group.  While having only read about Rudolph's
accomplishments, it's apparent to me that the United States does owe the man   
gratitude for helping build the rocket that put us on the moon.
	To take away a token symbol of our thanks would be a slap in the face   to a man who has probably lost more in his life than most of us would ever have.
	I'm not condoning his alledged actions during World War Two, only       saying that enough is enough. 
 
	The only thing we have to       	Lance Spangler
	fear is computing itself.		Senior News Producer
		               :-)   		KVUE Television
						Austin, Texas 

	UUCP    {ihnp4|seismo|ctvax|ucb-vax}!ut-sally!kvue!spangler
	TELCO   512-459-1433 (Pvt. line to my desk)
		512-346-4447 (Home - good in the evenings)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 85 07:52:11 pst
Message-Id: <8502141552.AA08331@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: kvue!spangler (Lance Spangler)
Subject: Buried 6000 miles ABOVE the ground

	Net.space readers might be interested in this item from UPI on 
Feb. 12.  It deals with SSI's plan to launch the cremated remains of people 
into outer space.  (It's been rewritten to avoid the copyright problems that
have been mentioned recently.) 
 
(Washington)  The government has given the go-ahead to preliminary plans for 
America's only private rocket company to carry cremated remains into space in
late 1986 or early 1987. 
	The Department of Transportation said today it has given tenative 
approval for the first commercial proposal to come under the agency's new 
licensing authority. 
	Space Services Incorporated of Houston, Texas wants to use its own
small "Conestoga" rocket to carry the ashes of more than 10-thousand people 
into a 19-hundred-mile-high orbit.  The container will remain there, in the 
Van Allen Radiation Belt for at least 63 million years according to officials 
with SSI. 
	Recently, the DOT was given the authority to oversee commercial space
activities.  The department says it issued permission to proceed after 
consulting with the State Department, the National Aeronautics and Space
Administration, and the Department of Defense.  
	According to company spokesmen, the cost for putting a loved one into
(almost) eternal orbit will be about 39-hundred dollars.  The same spokesman 
adds that the cost isn't much more than an earthly funeral would cost.  Cost
of the cremation isn't included in the launch price. 
	Reportedly, the first launch will carry the remains of some 200 people. 
	Earlier news reports had indicated the nosecone of the Conestoga rocket
would be plated with a highly reflective material allowing loved ones on earth 
to view their dearly departed pass overhead with the use of a telescope. 

 
	The only thing we have to       	Lance Spangler
	fear is computing itself.		Senior News Producer
		               :-)   		KVUE Television
						Austin, Texas

	UUCP    {ihnp4|seismo|ctvax|ucb-vax}!ut-sally!kvue!spangler
	TELCO   512-459-1433 (Pvt. line to my desk)
		512-346-4447 (Home - good in the evenings)

------------------------------

Date: 14 Feb 1985 14:11-PST
Sender: WARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA
Subject: Flight by Muscle and Brain
From: Craig E. Ward <WARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA>
To: BBoard@USC-ISIB.ARPA
Cc: Space@MIT-MC.ARPA, Aviation@MIT-MC.ARPA
Message-ID: <[USC-ISIF.ARPA]14-Feb-85 14:11:47.WARD>

The local chapter of the L5 Society, OASIS, is hosting a talk by
Paul MacCready this coming Tuesday, February 19, 1985 in the 
Kinsey Auditorium of the California Museum of Science and Industry
at 7:00pm.

Paul MacCready is the designer of the Gossamer Condor and other 
human powered aircraft.  He has won several prizes for his aircraft
including the first successful human-powered flight across the
English Channel.  His presentation promises to be an interesting one.

In addition, NASA films of recent shuttle missions will be shown which
will include spectacular footage of satellite rescues.

Admission is free and open to the public.

------------------------------

Date: 14 Feb 85  1535 PST
From: Tom Wadlow <TAW@S1-A.ARPA>
Subject: Tales from the Orbital Crypt 
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

I read in one of the local papers that the SSI plan for space burial
involved reducing the corpses to a very small size (roughly test-tube
sized containers of ashes, I think) for placement in the orbital crypt.

I wonder how much of a light sail it would take to reach system escape
velocity for such a payload, given:

	- You don't care how long it takes.  (After all, you're dead)
	- All systems are likely to be entirely passive.  Ideally,
		you might like to engrave a message on the container,
		and have the sail be a good optical and EMF reflector,
		but you can probably avoid the necessity for guidance
		or beacons.  This would be a dandelion-seed flight, going
		*away* from the Sun.
	- It must be launchable from Shuttle orbits.  This may be the
		kicker.  I recall reading that there is a minimum workable
		altitude for lightsails, due to residual atmospheric drag
		or something.

An orbiting crypt might be nice, I suppose, but if you could send your
remains as sort of a message-in-a-bottle on a flight to the stars, it 
would be a lot more attractive, I suspect.  --Tom

------------------------------

	id AA11204; Thu, 14 Feb 85 23:39:38 pst
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 85 23:39:38 pst
Message-Id: <8502150739.AA11204@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: uiucdcs!irwin
Subject: Re: Orphaned Response


No, electric guitars do not need air. The pick-up is not a microphone,
but rather a magnetic transducer. The pole piece in the transducer
senses the proximity of the string to the pole piece, producing a signal
at the output of the transducer based on the distance of the string from
the magnetic pole piece. This way no foreign noise is picked up (background)
such as sneeze, cough, etc.

A recording could be made of an electric guitar in space, and played on
earth to see what had been created in space. (The speakers would then
have air to transmit the sound).

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

16-Feb-85  0432	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #89
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 89

Today's Topics:
	   Flush the automatic posting of usenet space messages
     [Craig E. Ward <WARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA>: Flight by Muscle and B...]
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri 15 Feb 85 12:14:33-EST
From: Sidney Markowitz <SIDNEY%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject: Flush the automatic posting of usenet space messages
To: space@MIT-MC, space-request@MIT-MC

I would like to call for a vote concerning the recently implemented
connection to the usenet newsgroups. Up until now SPACE digest has mostly
consisted of informational articles and discussions conducted at a surprisingly
high level, considering that it is compiled in an automated fashion, rather
than edited by hand as are most arpanet digests. Now my mail box is being
filled with trivial conversations and redundant messages. Can we have a
separate mailing list for those who really want to receive net.space and
net.columbia (or whatever they're called)? 

This message is intended to be an announcement, and as such has been mailed
to the digest itself. Please mail your responses to space-request instead,
and then we won't have to read through endless discussion on the matter
before we find out what the mailing-list moderator's decision is.
Flames to me, or preferably to your local equivalent of /dev/nul/.

By the way, I am not proposing that usenet readers not be able to read
the Space Digest. There exists the fa.newsgroups just for that purpose,
or the precedent of AIList Digest which is posted on net.ai.

-- Sidney Markowitz, <sidney%oz@mit-mc.arpa>
-------

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 1985 15:03-PST
Sender: WARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA
Subject: [Craig E. Ward <WARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA>: Flight by Muscle and B...]
From: Craig E. Ward <WARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA>
To: Space@MIT-MC.ARPA, Aviation@MIT-MC.ARPA
Message-ID: <[USC-ISIF.ARPA]15-Feb-85 15:03:39.WARD>

It has been brought to my attention that "local" looses some of its meaning
over the net so you need to replace "local" with "Los Angles".

Sorry about that.
	
Begin forwarded message
Date: 14 Feb 1985 14:11-PST
From: Craig E. Ward <WARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA>
Subject: Flight by Muscle and Brain

The local chapter of the L5 Society, OASIS, is hosting a talk by
Paul MacCready this coming Tuesday, February 19, 1985 in the 
Kinsey Auditorium of the California Museum of Science and Industry
at 7:00pm.

Paul MacCready is the designer of the Gossamer Condor and other 
human powered aircraft.  He has won several prizes for his aircraft
including the first successful human-powered flight across the
English Channel.  His presentation promises to be an interesting one.

In addition, NASA films of recent shuttle missions will be shown which
will include spectacular footage of satellite rescues.

Admission is free and open to the public.

          --------------------
End forwarded message
		

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

17-Feb-85  0406	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #90
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 90

Today's Topics:
			 Re: Re: Shuttle Project?
		 Guitars in a space suit?  Makes me fret!
		Re: Orphaned Response (Guitars in sapace)
		       Re: Re: Re: Shuttle Project?
			     Guitar in Space
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Feb 85 12:05:30 pst
Message-Id: <8502162005.AA16340@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!kcarroll (Kieran A. Carroll)
Subject: Re: Re: Shuttle Project?

Electric guitars' sound is picked up by magnetic transducers on the body of
the guitar; that's why electric guitars have steel strings, rather than 
gut ones. This effect will work perfectly well in the absence of air,
and is the reason that this makes an interesting experiment
for a music teacher to try out in space (well, >sort of< interesting...)

-Kieran A. Carroll
...decvax!utzoo!kcarroll

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Feb 85 12:17:12 pst
Message-Id: <8502162017.AA16476@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: alice!jj
Subject: Guitars in a space suit?  Makes me fret!

Gee, what kind of neck and frets will you use on this guitar
that will be played with thick gloves?  What sort of pick?
Monitoring?  


I really think that this discussion is ceasing to be
related to space and space shuttles, and could perhaps
migrate to net.physics (or some other newsgroup I don't read).

Enjoy!
-- 
TEDDY BEARS HAVE TEETH, YOU KNOW!
"When I first landed here, I didn't like the beer, but the attitude seemed
good enough, and the way ahead seemed clear. The beer still tastes like
glue, the road seem rougher too, and the ..."

(allegra,harpo,ulysses)!alice!jj

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Feb 85 17:29:54 pst
Message-Id: <8502170129.AA17064@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ssc-vax!adolph (Mark Adolph)
Subject: Re: Orphaned Response (Guitars in sapace)

*** YOUR MESSAGE ***

> A recording could be made of an electric guitar in space, and played on
> earth to see what had been created in space. (The speakers would then
> have air to transmit the sound).

Has anyone considered the issue of producing a guitar solo while wearing
space suit gloves?  Perhaps we should switch to something easier to play
in a space suit, such as an electric trombone.  :-)

					-- Mark A.
					...uw-beaver!ssc-vax!adolph

	"We'll cross out that bridge when we come back to it later."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Feb 85 17:37:00 pst
Message-Id: <8502170137.AA17153@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Shuttle Project?

>>       but if the string is played in vacuum, then the friction of the air
>> is removed, and the sutain is much longer.
>>                                               Peter Barada
>>                                               ima!pbear!peterb
>
>I believe this should read, "If the string is played in vacuum, then the
>medium for the sound waves is removed and the sustain is zero, as it never
>gets to pickup."
>
>-Chuck
>
>--
>{ihnp4,fortune}!dual\
>        {qantel,idi}-> !intelca!cem
> {ucbvax,hao}!hplabs/

	The original premise was that if an ELECTRIC guitar (or other
stringed instrument) is played in a vacuum then the dampening effect
caused by air molocules is removed thereby increasing the sustain level.

	This applies for other instruments as well (such as:

	tubular bells,
	pianos,
	violins,
	cellos,
	xylophones,
	etc....

						Peter Barada
						ima!pbear!peterb

------------------------------

Date: 16 Feb 85 23:30:15 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Guitar in Space
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

As a guitarist of some few years experience, I'd be more than happy to
volunteer for the experiment. However, let me point out a few problems that
will have to be solved.

Fingering will require an extremely flexible suit with very thin and strong
material at the finger tips.  Us guitarists can stick pins into our finger
tips because of the thick callus that we build up over many years of sliding
our fingers at HIGH speed over wires that are thinner than that on a cheese
slicer.  This could be quite hard on space gloves, as they don't grow
thicker with use.

Thinness is necessary because the string of an electric guitar are set quite
close together.  Beginners have trouble depressing a single string with a
single finger, even WITHOUT gloves.

The requirement for flexibility goes far beyond what is done now. Proper
technique requires moving the left arm to the proper position, and placing
fingertips squarely down upon 6 individual strings, commonly with a bar
across two or more strings where a single finger is flexed OPPOSITE the
normal flexure direction.

The arm motion is used because the arm is stronger and can cause more rapid
movement on the neck of the guitar. Similarly with the right arm for
strumming, although when picking individual notes a great deal of the motion
may come from the wrist, with the little finger resting on the pickguard (if
you are a rock flat picker). If you are a finger picker, then you have the
same basic problems as with the left hand, unless you use metal or plastic
finger picks over the gauntleted fingers.

The upshot is that you have to be able to move arms, elbows, wrists and
every finger joint VERY rapidly.

It may not be entirely necessary, but I find the feedback of the FEEL of the
string is important for proper vibrato, slides, bends, attack/release,
harmonics, etc. This would tend to call for a very thin material. Harmonics
in particular, because you have to touch the string just right, just long
enought and without much depression to get the harmonic ring. Although I
hadn't thought of it for years, I get the  harmonic right every time because
I remember what the string FEELS like when I've touched it just right.

And of course the music must be fed back into your helmet so you can get the
emotional feel of what you are doing.

I suspect an electric piano might be easier at the moment, at least until we
have a really TOUGH skin tight suit.

There may be some adaptation difficulties for the guitarist in zero G.
Motions are not easily changed because you do not play notes from the higher
brain functions.  You feel a 'musical direction' and let reflex take you the
rest of the way.  If you have ever listened closely to John McGloughlin, you
will understand the impossibility of this being concious on a note by note
basis.  The lack of gravity might have effects that make the reflex work not
quite as intended.  I can certainly imagine one problem being the ability to
move the guitar around and yet not have the impacts and motions cause it to
go spinning off, or in general act like a greased pig.  It could well take a
few months of practice to add the necessary reflex-programs to your lower
brainstem to get performance quality music out of your fingertips.  As I
said before, I'd be most happy to study the phenomena.  This part could be
done even before a proper space suit was ready, with an ordinary guitar.  I
suppose we could ask the Russians about this, as they were the first to play
guitar in space.  (I wonder if congress will buy a music gap?)

					A former well merged and slightly
					crazed rocker,
					Dale Amon

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

18-Feb-85  0404	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #91
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 91

Today's Topics:
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #90
			 Re: Re: Shuttle Project?
			   DOD anti-capitalist?
				Telescopes
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 17 Feb 1985 1126 PST
From: Ron Tencati <TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA>
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #90
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Reply-To: TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA

I vote for making a separate SPACE mailing list for those who want to 
discuss ad infinitum about whether electric amplifiers will work in a 
vacuum.  How about INFO-SPACE-JUNK for them, and INFO-NASA for the rest
of us that wish to keep the list professional.

Ron Tencati
JPL-VLSI
------

------------------------------

	id AA19151; Sun, 17 Feb 85 13:27:24 pst
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 85 13:27:24 pst
Message-Id: <8502172127.AA19151@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: mlm@cmu-cs-cad.ARPA (Michael Mauldin)
Subject: Re: Re: Shuttle Project?

Enough about guitar strings in space!!!

1. Yes, you can play an electric guitar in space.
2. Sure, it might be interesting to hear the difference of the sustains
   in a vacuum, but
3. IT CAN BE DONE ON THE GROUND IN A VACUUM CHAMBER!!!

To REALLY interest NASA in a shuttle project, you have to pick something
that can be done cheaper in space than on the ground.  Weightlessness
should have little or no effect on a guitar string.

Michael L. Mauldin (Fuzzy)		Department of Computer Science
Mauldin@CMU-CS-CAD.ARPA			Carnegie-Mellon University
(412) 578-3065				Pittsburgh, PA  15213

------------------------------

Date: 17 Feb 85 17:20:01 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: DOD anti-capitalist?
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

Thoughts on "Classification Dispute Stalls NOAA Program", Science 2/8/85,
pg 612-613

Now that the US has claimed a 200 mile economic zone, it would seem to make
perfect sense to send in the surveyors and map an acquisition of land
unheralded since the purchase of Alaska. Once the cartographers have cleared
the way, we send out the new 49'ers and begin tapping the enourmous wealth
of the nearly untapped continental slope, just as one day we will map the
lunar surface in fine detail for the prospectors.

And NOAA, taking it's charter to heart was prepared to map the new territory
using the Sea Beam and the satellites of the Global Positioning System to
gain highly detailed mapping information.

However, the DOD in its infinite wisdom, wants to classify any mapping that
NOAA does.  Since classification will effectively halt the major economic
use of this zone, it makes one wonder of DOD has forgotten what economic
system they are supposed to be defending.

DOD gave their half baked and rather lame excuse (Soviet submarines could
figure out where to hide).  This strikes me as being nearly as ludicrous as
the explanations given for the shuttle launch time security.  I suspect the
real reason may be one of the following:

	- we have underwater caches of fuel, weapons, supplies, atomics, for
	  wartime resupply of submarines, and possibly through the
	  submarines of surface vessals.

	- we have carried the Sealab technology furthur and have underwater
	  listening posts or bases that are manned.

	- we have unmanned underwater listening posts or other elint or
	  C-cubed facilities that might show up in detailed mapping

	- we have built an undersea neutrino detector large enough to give
	  militarily useful resolution so that can follow nuclear powered
	  vessels anywhere on earth. I'm not sure about warheads, but I do
	  know that operating reactors give off a nuetrino flux, albeit
	  a not terribly powerful one. There was even discussion of building
	  a large detector in the waters off of Hawaii. Detectors are based
	  on recording scintillations in the dark waters using sensitive
	  photo detectors.

If anyone wonders why I have brought this up in Space Digest, it has to do
with the fear that these morons may try to pull the same type of
shenaninigans on us when we attempt to exploit the resources of the solar
system.  As those who have followed my ravings before know, I am NOT anti
defense, or even anti-SDI.  However I have a strong desire to make sure the
military of our country is kept under control and gets slapped down every
once in awhile with the reminder that this is a DEMOCRACY, with a
CONSTITUTION, and it runs under a CAPITALIST economic system, and that the
people who make up the nation are independent, undisciplined and (god
forbid) UNMILITARY individualists.

And for those who do not believe this will happen in space, I remind you
that the DOD has used similar unconvincing arguments to prevent the creation
of 10m resolution orbital remote sensing, is internally and privately
undercutting the concept of shuttle commercialization, and was most
unhelpful in getting a multinational space station built, yet was unwilling
to assist the lobbying to create an all-american SCIENTIFIC and COMMERCIAL
space station.

By the way, I might add that to my (admittedly peripheral) knowledge it is
not the people in the SDI office who are causing the trouble!!

The whole point is, I think any of you out there who are in a position to do
so should raise one holy hell of a stink about this travesty.  I remind you
of a few mottos of our ancestors: "Live Free or Die" (New Hampshire state
motto), "Don't Tread on Me" (California state motto).  Help keep our War
Department American!!

------------------------------

Date: 17 Feb 85 17:52:25 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Telescopes
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

Why hasn't anybody considered building an all electronic telescope?  Why
even bother with a mirror?  A large flat plate of CCD must certainly be
cheaper than the expensive optics and aligning techniques now being used.

I cannot think of a good reason why it wouldn't work, and I'm curious if
anyone out there can see a problem.

For those to whom the idea is not immediately obvious, the main mirror would
be replaced with a flat plate of photomultipliers impinging on CCD.  About
3-4 years ago Scientific American ran an article on some of the new
technology for making the zone plates better and cheaper.

With this approach we can count photons and arrival times immediately.  The
scope would consist of nothing but a tube to prevent extraneous light from
getting in, the 'objective' plate and a computer with humungously high speed
and enormously large storage capabilities.

The only thing I'm not sure of is how to get a good spectral resolution.
What is really desired is a vector of length 4 identifying each impinging
photon over a useful delta-f with <x,y,t,f>

Even with the above computing requirements, it MUST be cheaper than forming
a few tons of glass to within a 1/4 wavelength of a complex 3-d figuring
curve!!!

If anyone decides to build one, please name it after me, or at least send me
the check for the difference between the electronics and the optics...

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

19-Feb-85  0411	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #92
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 92

Today's Topics:
			  Crew Wins Silver Medal
			      Rollout to VAB
			       Re: Columbia
		       Launch Date Set For 3 March
	   USENET, SPACE, gatewaying, and vacuum guitar playing
			      Re: Telescopes
			    Space Station Book
			     Electronic scope
	       Re:TENCATI at JPL-VLSI re:SPACE DIGEST V591
			      Re: Telescopes
----------------------------------------------------------------------

	id AA20746; Mon, 18 Feb 85 07:40:41 pst
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 85 07:40:41 pst
Message-Id: <8502181540.AA20746@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: brunix!alb (Adam Buchsbaum)
Subject: Crew Wins Silver Medal

The crew of the space shuttle Discovery that last year
rescued the Palapa B-2 and Wester-6 satellites arrived
in London yesterday at the invitation of Lloyd's of
London, which insured the satellites.  All members of
the crew will receive Lloyd's silver medal for outstanding
service.

------------------------------

	id AA20755; Mon, 18 Feb 85 07:41:11 pst
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 85 07:41:11 pst
Message-Id: <8502181541.AA20755@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: brunix!alb (Adam Buchsbaum)
Subject: Rollout to VAB

The Challenger, with launch now set for 3 March, is scheduled
to be moved from the OFP to the VAB at 0001 EST Sunday, 10
February.

------------------------------

	id AA20763; Mon, 18 Feb 85 07:41:34 pst
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 85 07:41:34 pst
Message-Id: <8502181541.AA20763@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: brunix!alb (Adam Buchsbaum)
Subject: Re: Columbia

The Columbia is not just being refurbished.  It is being
converted, from a test vehicle to an operational orbiter.
It's quite extensive work.  The ejection seats in the cockpit
are being taken out and the cockpit expanded to fit more
people, tiles are being replaced by blankets, the cargo
bay is being expanded, and the engines are being replaced
with newer models, to name just a few things.  There are
many more.

I do not know when it is scheduled to fly again.

------------------------------

	id AA20775; Mon, 18 Feb 85 07:42:21 pst
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 85 07:42:21 pst
Message-Id: <8502181542.AA20775@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: brunix!alb (Adam Buchsbaum)
Subject: Launch Date Set For 3 March

NASA yesterday announced that the Challenger's new launch
date is 3 March, 11 days later than the original 20 February
date.  Launch time is scheduled as 0831 EST, and the shuttle
is due to land at 0932 EST on 7 March.  The delay will still
have no effect on the next launch of Discovery, which is
set for 19 March.

------------------------------

	id AA21720; Mon, 18 Feb 85 09:50:52 pst
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 85 09:50:52 pst
From: John Bruner <jdb@mordor.ARPA>
Message-Id: <8502181750.AA21720@mordor.ARPA>
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: USENET, SPACE, gatewaying, and vacuum guitar playing

Since I just recently set up the gateway between USENET and the
SPACE mailing list (after seeing some requests that the gateway
be re-established), perhaps I should comment upon the matter.
(Then again, perhaps I shouldn't, but I will anyway.)

I believe that most USENET readers are unaware of how ARPANET
mailing lists work, and that conversely many ARPANET people are
not familiar with USENET.

USENET acts as an electronic bulletin board.  Readers may "subscribe"
to a variety of "newsgroups" which are then presented to them when
they run a "readnews" program.  (There are variations on the theme,
one of which is the "notesfiles" system, but the basic idea is the
same.)  There is one copy of each article per system.  The vast
majority of USENET newsgroups are not moderated.  A USENET reader
places an article into the USENET news stream by "posting" it to
one or more newsgroups.

An ARPANET mailing list is exactly what its name implies: a list
of people to whom ARPANET mail is sent periodically.  The list is
maintained by one person (the list's moderator).  Readers subscribe
to the list by sending mail to the list moderator, requesting to
be added to the mailing list.  (This mail is sometimes misdirected,
hence the occasional "please add me/delete me to/from the list"
messages that show up.)  Most mailing lists are distributed in the
form of a digest, which contains several messages that have arrived
at a specified mailing address (e.g. SPACE@MIT-MC) in the few days
preceeding the new digest mailing.

In the case of the SPACE digest, S1-C (MORDOR) converts incoming
USENET articles in the newsgroups "net.space" and "net.columbia"
and mails them to the digest.  Mail to SPACE@MIT-MC is sent to
MORDOR and is posted to the USENET newsgroup "net.space".  It is
my understanding that this was the arrangement with the previous
gateway (SRI-UNIX, I think).  Note that USENET receives the individual
letters, not the digest.  (It is be trivial to gateway the digest
too; in fact, I read the SPACE digest via a local newsgroup that
is gatewayed in exactly this fashion.)

The nature of the "net.space" and "net.columbia" newsgroups is
different.  Since letters mailed to SPACE show up only on
"net.space", perhaps readers of the SPACE digest would prefer
to see only articles posted to "net.space" on USENET.  I believe
that the recent series on the sustain of electric guitars in a
vacuum came from "net.columbia".  I can make this change easily.
--
  John Bruner (S-1 Project, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory)
  MILNET: jdb@mordor.ARPA [jdb@s1-c]	(415) 422-0758
  UUCP: ...!ucbvax!dual!mordor!jdb 	...!decvax!decwrl!mordor!jdb

------------------------------

	id AA21846; Mon, 18 Feb 85 10:02:36 pst
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 85 10:02:36 pst
Message-Id: <8502181802.AA21846@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utastro!ethan (Ethan Vishniac)
Subject: Re: Telescopes

> From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
> 
> Why hasn't anybody considered building an all electronic telescope?  Why
> even bother with a mirror?  A large flat plate of CCD must certainly be
> cheaper than the expensive optics and aligning techniques now being used.
> 
> For those to whom the idea is not immediately obvious, the main mirror would
> be replaced with a flat plate of photomultipliers impinging on CCD.  About
> 3-4 years ago Scientific American ran an article on some of the new
> technology for making the zone plates better and cheaper.
> 
> With this approach we can count photons and arrival times immediately.  The
> scope would consist of nothing but a tube to prevent extraneous light from
> getting in, the 'objective' plate and a computer with humungously high speed
> and enormously large storage capabilities.
> 
> The only thing I'm not sure of is how to get a good spectral resolution.
> What is really desired is a vector of length 4 identifying each impinging
> photon over a useful delta-f with <x,y,t,f>
> 
> Even with the above computing requirements, it MUST be cheaper than forming
> a few tons of glass to within a 1/4 wavelength of a complex 3-d figuring
> curve!!!
> 

*** REPLACE THIS TELESCOPE WITH YOUR CCD ***

Hmm........   As a theorist I'm probably not the person to answer this, but
here goes...
 
   The problem is not obtaining reasonably spectral resolution, that can be
done with filters if necessary.  The problem is that the scheme as presented
here has no means of distinguishing between photons coming from slightly
different directions.  It has no *angular* resolution.  This is the whole
point of the optics, to create an image, to separate out photons according
to their wavevectors.  A CCD will simply record whether or not a photon
has struck its surface.  In order to make a telescope like this work one
would have to restrict its field of view to the angular resolution desired,
i.e. less than an arc second.  Note that I haven't mentioned (yet) the 
difficulty involved in covering an area comparable to a large telescope mirror
with a coherent CCD array.

"Don't argue with a fool.      Ethan Vishniac
 Borrow his money."            {charm,ut-sally,ut-ngp,noao}!utastro!ethan
                               Department of Astronomy
                               University of Texas
                               Austin, Texas 78712

*Anyone who wants to claim these opinions is welcome to them*

------------------------------

Date: 18 Feb 85 19:33:44 EST
From: Hank.Walker@CMU-CS-UNH
Subject: Space Station Book
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

IEEE Press has just published "The Space Station:  An Idea Whose Time Has
Come" edited by Theodore Simpson.  The book consists of 20 chapters by
separate authors including James Beggs of NASA, Jacques Collet of ESA, John
Hodge, deputy administrator for the space station, and Harrison Schmitt.
Charles Sheffield has called the book "a mine of information," but my
impression is that the book is written on a mostly non-technical level, or
perhaps the level of IEEE Spectrum.  It is stated in the book review (from
IEEE Institute) that no equations appear in the book.  Part of the book
concerns the history of the space program, speculations on future missions,
and a look at the political process.  The book is available from IEEE
Service Center, 445 Hoes Lane, Piscataway, NJ  08854.  Price is $17.95 for
IEEE members, $19.95 for nonmembers.

------------------------------

Date: 18 Feb 85 20:16:15 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Electronic scope
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

A number of people have pointed out the flaw in the idea I presented
previously. And that is that each point on the target object emits a
spherical wave front. The telescope captures a small solid angle's worth of
the wavefront from that point and focuses it to a single point on the
objective. Likewise for every point in the field of view. Thus there is an
n:1 mapping. A collimated imager misses this.

As others have pointed out to me, the phase information must be retained to
electronically sythesize the image that the primary would generate. I
suspect it will be possible eventually, but this problem explains why it has
not been seriously considered at this time.

Oh well, back to designing costumes for the first outdoor rock performance
at Tranquility Base National Park... (Or maybe at the Frau Mauro Golf
Course, or Tycho Colliseum)

------------------------------

Date: Monday, 18 Feb 1985 21:42-EST
From: nsc@Mitre-Bedford
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Cc: nsc@Mitre-Bedford
Subject: Re:TENCATI at JPL-VLSI re:SPACE DIGEST V591


Amen to nix to guitars in space and, by the way, to cremaspaceatoriums.

Guitars in space sounds like a high school science fair project.  If the
idea is to provide a forum for discussing space technology issues, this 
is not one of them. It's a nit that's been fairly well picked by now.

Discussions of ashes in space will be as shortly remembered as discussions of
the dynamics of hula hoops.

Concur with the idea of "INFO-SPACE-JUNK" (sorta reminds you of the defunct
TV series QUARK, doesn't it?), but Ron's alternative is "INFO-NASA". That
would be a fairly interesting and highly patronized bboard, I'm sure. But
INFO-NASA is not exactly the same as INFO-SPACE. Nor is INFO-DOD-SPACE the
same, but you can't talk about space in a vacuum (sorry). It's NASA and it's
DOD and it's commercial space too. 

That's what I think (and thought before I signed on) SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS
should be.

Bull (Navy Space Planner) (Views probably not exactly those of the management,
but pretty close I'd reckon.)

------------------------------

	id AA24299; Mon, 18 Feb 85 19:33:27 pst
From: dual!ihnp4!iheds!hon
Message-Id: <8502190220.AA05650@dual.UUCP>
Date: 18 Feb 85 13:00:04 CST (Mon)
To: mordor!space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: Telescopes

I don't believe you would get any magnification with your
single flat plat.  When you record the photons with the CCD
you lose the phase information.  The mirror preserves the
phase and allows the magnified image from  correlated
photons to be cast at the focus where it can then be
causght by a CC.


			Herb Norton
			Bell Labs

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

20-Feb-85  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #93
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 93

Today's Topics:
			Re: Re: Orphaned Response
				 comments
			  Re: Orphaned Response
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 85 09:58:16 pst
Message-Id: <8502191758.AA26381@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: Re: Orphaned Response

	An electric guitar pickup does produce an output that is
porportional to the distance of the string to the pickup, but that is only
in a perpendicular plane to the pole of the magnet.

	Actually the output is the voltage produced by differential flux
which in turn is produced by moving a wire through a variable magnetic
field. at the end of each swing the flux is highest, and in the middle of
each swing the flux is at its lowest. (relative to the free flux in the wire
when motionless.)


						Peter Barada
						ima!pbear!peterb

------------------------------

Date: 19 Feb 85 23:20:28 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: comments
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

I suspect there are very few topics that could be discussed here that
someone would not consider trivial and unimportant. But sometimes the
trivial can be a marvelous tool for the imagination. As we move into space
to LIVE, then burial in space, guitars in space and all the other minutia
that make up our daily lives and our social milieau will go with us. The
change of environment will change social institutions, will require
modification and sometimes reinvention of the minor and the major.

As one who interested in space not as a research project but as a potential
future home, I find ALL of it to be very important.

I wonder at the new esthetics, the new art forms that will grow from the
possibilities of tnew environments and the interaction of old forms with the
new. Guitars in vacuum might be technically trivial, but who knows where art
forms will go? Our imaginations start with the trivial, but who really knows
where the ideas might lead?

Life is really pretty drab without art, sculpture, dance, music and theater.
They are all a very important part of what we are, and if we were to leave
them behind us, it would make us something less than human.

------------------------------

	id AA28770; Tue, 19 Feb 85 23:36:58 pst
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 85 23:36:58 pst
Message-Id: <8502200736.AA28770@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron@brl-tgr.ARPA>)
Subject: Re: Orphaned Response

> 
> No, electric guitars do not need air. The pick-up is not a microphone,
> but rather a magnetic transducer. The pole piece in the transducer
> senses the proximity of the string to the pole piece, producing a signal
> at the output of the transducer based on the distance of the string from
> the magnetic pole piece. This way no foreign noise is picked up (background)
> such as sneeze, cough, etc.
> 
> A recording could be made of an electric guitar in space, and played on
> earth to see what had been created in space. (The speakers would then
> have air to transmit the sound).

My Rhodes works the same way.  We could use bone-conduction receivers
to avoid having to have air coupling.


-Ron

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest
*******************

20-Feb-85  1440	OTA  	Usenet to Space Digest connection 
To:   "@SPACE.DIS[SPA,OTA]"@S1-A.ARPA 
All of you have contributed comments on this issue.  The voting seems to
have tailed off and is running about 3:1 against the usenet connection
with less than 10 votes cast.  Since I estimate the Arpanet readership of
the digest at around 1000 I assume most people don't care.  What I would
like to suggest is that a volunteer be found who reads the Usenet stuff
(anyway) and would be willing to manually forward stuff of interest to the
digest.  This would have almost all the advantages of the current system
and few additional disadvantages.  How do people feel about this?  Does
anyone want to volunteer?
	-Ted Anderson

21-Feb-85  0513	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #94
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 94

Today's Topics:
			   Administrivial Oops!
			 Re: DOD anti-capitalist?
			     RE:space burial
			     RE: Space burial
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #90
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 85 17:03:54 pst
To:   All
From: Ted Anderson <ota@s1-a>
Subject: Administrivial Oops!

Well in case you hadn't figured it out by now: I carefully went through
and culled all the From: fields out the votes I received, made up a
mailing list and then sent the message about usenet to absolulu everybody!
My apologies to everyone.  The message should still make sense, though of
course the first sentence ("All of you have contributed...") only applies
to about 1% of you.

And while I have you're ear let me also mention that I've made a few
changes to the digesting macros.  It should now flush the
and looking pretty funny.  Also the last line of the Digest now repeats
the volume and issue numbers for those who find that convenient.

	The Moderator

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 85 07:46:14 pst
Message-Id: <8502201546.AA00111@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: amdahl!ems (E. Michael Smith)
Subject: Re: DOD anti-capitalist?

> From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
> 
> Thoughts on "Classification Dispute Stalls NOAA Program", Science 2/8/85,
> pg 612-613
> 
> However, the DOD in its infinite wisdom, wants to classify any mapping that
> NOAA does.  Since classification will effectively halt the major economic
> use of this zone, it makes one wonder of DOD has forgotten what economic
> system they are supposed to be defending.
>
They have never played Hamurabi or Empire and don't yet understand that
the way to win the game is to economically out produce your competition.

> DOD gave their half baked and rather lame excuse (Soviet submarines could
> figure out where to hide).  This strikes me as being nearly as ludicrous as
> the explanations given for the shuttle launch time security.  I suspect the
> real reason may be one of the following:
>
--- long list of far fetched rather lame reasons ommitted ---

It is unlikely that there is any good reason.  The dod has a long
history of 'when in doubt classify new knowledge'.  They  seem to be
as afraid of knowledge as the Russians.  They just haven't learned yet
that we will gain more advantage by the free exploitation of knowledge
to our economic advantage than we will loose by having it known to
the USSR.  Remember that 'crypt' is not distributed outside the USA
because of the bureacratic problem of licencing; not due to some
sinister dod plot.  Not to prevent anyone from having it.

> ...                         However I have a strong desire to make sure the
> military of our country is kept under control and gets slapped down every
> once in awhile with the reminder that this is a DEMOCRACY, with a
> CONSTITUTION, and it runs under a CAPITALIST economic system, and that the
> people who make up the nation are independent, undisciplined and (god
> forbid) UNMILITARY individualists.

We have a Representative Democracy, not a Direct Domocracy; the DOD is
doing what our representatives have told it to do...

The constitution has been interpreted till it doesn't mean much any more...

And our economy is not a true Capitalist system, but is rather what is
called a Mixed Economy; with features of both capitalism and Socialism
freely intermingled.

Most of the people in the US do not fit the catagory 'individualist'. I
wish that this were not so.  Yes, the DOD will classify and stiffle the
civilian space effort.  This will be largely the result of bureaucratic
bumbling and the tendency to try to hide *EVERYTHING* from the Russians.

I doubt if we can change that.  I hope there is enough leakage in the
system to get the job of commercialization of space done.


E. Michael Smith  ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems

Comedo ergo sum

The opinions expressed by me are not representative of those of any
other person - natural, unnatural, or fictional - and only marginally
reflect my opinions as strained by the language.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 85 17:48:07 pst
Message-Id: <8502210148.AA04098@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ihuxe!rainbow (Rob Buchner)
Subject: RE:space burial


>Yes, you can be buried in space! Just have someone send your cremated remains
>("cremains," as they were called in the news story on NPR this morning)to SSI
>(not to be confused with the Princeton-based Space Studies Institute, also
>called SSI), and they will further reduce them to fit into a capsule
>approximately 1" by 1-1/4" which will be inscribed with your name, social
>security number, and (optional) religious symbol of your choice.  Then a
>capsule containing several thousand of these will be placed into low earth
>orbit (through the Van Allen Belt, which has very little satellite traffic).

>>Compact little  shapes? (like what the Kelvans did to the crew of the 
>>Enterprise) Low Earth orbit? What a drag. I think I'll wait until 
>>they can give my carcass enough energy to leave the solar system.

I am happy to inform you that your worries are over. SSI plans to follow-up
their first launching immediately with another. This one out of the Solar
System. Can they expect you as a customer?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 85 17:57:43 pst
Message-Id: <8502210157.AA04193@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: drutx!pagiven (GivenP)
Subject: RE: Space burial


                                 -
Has SSI considered the possibility that they could be starting  our
first inter-stellar war?  I, for one, would consider it a very hos-
tile act if someone were to fire little  ash-filled  titanium  cap-
sules  at  me.   Such bullets propelled by light-sails, as at least
one netter proposed, could  reach  their  victims  at  .999c  given
enough  time.  Even if launched only with enough velocity to escape
the solar system, those little bullets would pack  quite  a  wallop
when  impacting  a  target  at  some  great differential speed.  An
angry, intelligent civilization so threatened could  easily  calcu-
late the trajectories and figure out where they came from.

ZAP! we're history!

 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul Given             {ihnp4, houxe, stcvax!ihnp4}!drutx!pagiven
              AT&T Information Systems Laboratories
 11900 N. Pecos, Rm 1B04, Denver 80234              (303)-538-4058
 -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 85 18:26:46 pst
Message-Id: <8502210226.AA04511@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #90

> From: Ron Tencati <TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA>
> 
> I vote for making a separate SPACE mailing list for those who want to 
> discuss ad infinitum about whether electric amplifiers will work in a 
> vacuum.  How about INFO-SPACE-JUNK for them, and INFO-NASA for the rest
> of us that wish to keep the list professional.
> 
> Ron Tencati
> JPL-VLSI
> ------

[pilot light on]
i had to comment on this on. [also, thank you to all who have sent letters,
i am touched].

i vote against.  i realize the description about the usenet/arpanet
gatewaying has been described [i prefer the usenet interface even though
i have arpa access.  i think ele* amp*s requires a bit of tolerance
on our part.  i don't want to see an info-nasa because nasa does not
represent to only view on the use of space.  i am sorry if you cannot
ignore mail [i use to have an account on the vax known as jpl-vlsi, so
i know what you are doing to read the group].  because some of us
represent the 'official' agency, there is a tendency for some to see
"special dispensation" by default [unspoken].  i think the mear fact
that i or other nasa people on this net biases some people from posting.
that is one reason why i only wish to sit back for a while, since i have
noticed changes on this net since i started flaming.

hand is getting tired, so HAVE TOLERANCE.  the volume on this news group
is small, so this is possible.  i learned the ropes by getting
burned, and people informed so.  nasa has few sits on either
the arpanet [we're not part of the dod, so we don't get special
dis*] or the uucpnet.  i know one nasa official [not ted flinn] who used
to read the net "until it was too filled with trash."  thats okay,
we are thinking about our own local newgroups for discussing
work related issues like what goes on the space station, but this
would bore most people.  that's choice [to a degree, mind you].

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,vortex}!ames!aurora!eugene
  emiya@ames-vmsb.ARPA

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #94
*******************

23-Feb-85  0353	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #95
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 95

Today's Topics:
			       Light Sails
			     Re:Space Digest
			     RE: Space burial
			     Re: Light Sails
			  Information requested
			   Re: Guitar in Space
		 RE: spce burial out of this solar system
			 Re: Re: Shuttle Project?
			     Re: Light Sails
			     Re: Light Sails
		     Re: Tales from the Orbital Crypt
	       Re:TENCATI at JPL-VLSI re:SPACE DIGEST V591
		     American Space Foundation (ASF)
			   Re: Guitar in Space
		       Re: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #90
			   Re: Guitar in Space
		       Re: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #90
			 construction techniques
			  Re: Space Station Book
				   UFOs
			 Re: DOD anti-capitalist?
			   Re: Guitar in Space
				 Re: UFOs
				Bellyache
			      Re: Telescopes
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Feb 85 11:16:47 EST
From: John Heimann <jheimann@BBNCCY.ARPA>
Subject: Light Sails
To: space@mit-mc.arpa

	I sat down and tried to sketch out just how fast a solar sail could
reasonably be expected to go, assuming a point source of illumination (the
sun), the usual inverse square law for drop-off of photon intensity, a bit of
handwaving about the mean photon momentum, and some reasonable figures for the
density of the sail material.  I realized then that I wasn't really sure how
the thing was to operate after all.  Are solar sails designed to get their
momentum from elastic collisions with solar photons (reflecting sunlight), or
do they get most of it from collisions with other particles that are constantly
emitted from the sum (e.g. neutrons)?  A typical neutron from a nuclear
reaction packs a lot more momentum than a photon from the same reaction, so
this is an important issue.  Also, what's a good assumption as to the
composition of the sail?  Would a large expanse of metallized mylar be
reasonable, or would this rip to shreds under meteor impact?  Not having read
anything about the subject in years, I really am not up on the latest ideas -
although the old ideas were certainly interesting. Any technical info. would be
appreciated. 

John
("Lux et Veritas")

------------------------------

Date: 21 Feb 1985 1101 PST
From: Ron Tencati <TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA>
Subject: Re:Space Digest
To: space-enthusiasts@mit-mc
Reply-To: TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA

I apologize for the way I worded my last message to the list.  I was not 
suggesting that the list become a NASA bulletin board.  I like the 
diversity on the list.  What I was trying to do, was to make a plea that 
the list not be cluttered with trivial pursuits about what kind of 
amplifier would produce the best effect in space (that was a pun, but
you get the idea), that's all.  I like the list, and I like the topics 
discussed over the list, don't you think some things drag on a little 
too long?  Maybe it's just me.  I'll be more tolerant, sorry.

As long as you've read this far, I would like to ask another question:

Is it really necessary when replying to a digest article, that the 
entire article or letter is re-sent to the list prefaced by a bunch of
">" brackets?  I don't know about the rest of you, but I keep those 
issues of the digest that I find interesting on-line.  In my case, a 
simple reference to the past article and the person's reply would be 
enough for me.  I guess the reason this bothers is that on this and 
other lists, more than one person will use this technique when replying 
to an article, and it gets redundant and lengthy. Especially when you 
are on a 1200 baud dial up and you have to go through re-reading an old 
message before you get to the "good stuff".  This is just a personal 
opinion.

Now, would you like to see this stuff discussed over the list for the
next two weeks?  I don't think that this message, or any flames,
should be forced on the readers, and imbedded in the digest either.

Oh well, I'll get back to work and not worry about it anymore.

Ron Tencati
JPL-VLSI.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Feb 85 11:48:01 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8502211948.AA17501@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: iihnp4!drutx!pagiven@Berkeley, space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: RE: Space burial

	Has SSI considered the possibility that they could be starting  our
	first inter-stellar war?  I, for one, would consider it a very hos-
	tile act if someone were to fire little  ash-filled  titanium  cap-
	sules  at  me.   Such bullets propelled by light-sails, as at least
	one netter proposed, could  reach  their  victims  at  .999c  given
	enough  time.  Even if launched only with enough velocity to escape
	the solar system, those little bullets would pack  quite  a  wallop
	when  impacting  a  target  at  some  great differential speed.  An
	angry, intelligent civilization so threatened could  easily  calcu-
	late the trajectories and figure out where they came from.

	ZAP! we're history!


(1) Probability of collision with *anything* is vanishingly small.
(2) .999c is an absurd value for the terminal velocity of a lightsail
launched without aid of a coherent light source
(3) For heaven's sake, please submit this stuff to info-space-junk.


					Rick.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Feb 85 12:19:20 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8502212019.AA17985@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: jheimann@BBNCCY.ARPA, space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: Light Sails

	I'm pretty sure that a heavy particle would go right through the
sail, with little net momentum transfer -- unless, that is, you made your
sail of lead or gold (better -- highly reflective).

					Rick.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Feb 85 15:15:14 pst
Message-Id: <8502212315.AA07773@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: haddock!jimc
Subject: Information requested

Someone please write about Jake Garn and his future in space.  I guess
I missed all the news coverage.

Message me if you want.

					Jim Campbell

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Feb 85 15:42:09 pst
Message-Id: <8502212342.AA08089@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ee!cj
Subject: Re: Guitar in Space

  I suppose we could overcome the problem of strings being
too close together by using a bass guitar. The problem
of strings as thin as cheese slicer wires is also avoided,
but there is still a need for rather tough gloves, but still
thin enough to get the feel (round wounds *EAT* beginners
fingers). Mobility would also be a problem, unless you were
one of those who plays C&W (GAD! 3 notes for HOURS), although
since a lot of them use flat wound strings (dull and thumpy)
so the need for extra tough gloves might be a little less :-).
Anyway, I suppose that I could be persuaded to do the testing,
if you twist my arm a little, I'd even play a little C&W (it's
against my religion to play less than 5 notes for more than
5 minutes).

				Just another deranged rocker,
					$cj
...!{ihnp4,decvax,ucbvax,harpo,masscomp,(just about anywhere)}!pur-ee!cj

P.S. I suppose we could try my synth...nah :-)

------------------------------

Date: 21 Feb 85 14:43:00 PST
From: WOO IL LEE <lee@su-star>
Subject: RE: spce burial out of this solar system
To: space%mit-mc <space%mit-mc@score>
Reply-To: WOO IL LEE <lee@su-star>

	As far as I know, SSI (the commercial one) equipment has barely
enough delta V to (maybe) reach some near-earth orbits. How are they going
to reach solar escape velocity? Is somebody selling second-hand upper stages?

				Emilio P. Caalius
				Stanford Univ.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Feb 85 15:48:25 pst
Message-Id: <8502212348.AA08172@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: phoenix!brent (Brent P. Callahan)
Subject: Re: Re: Shuttle Project?

>Enough about guitar strings in space!!!
>
>1. Yes, you can play an electric guitar in space.
>2. Sure, it might be interesting to hear the difference of the sustains
>   in a vacuum, but
>3. IT CAN BE DONE ON THE GROUND IN A VACUUM CHAMBER!!!

       But what about the acoustics of the chamber ?

Made in New Zealand -->		Brent Callaghan
				AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft, NJ
				{ihnp4|ahuta|pegasus}!phoenix!brent
				(201) 576-3475

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Feb 85 18:41:01 pst
Message-Id: <8502220241.AA08956@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utastro!ethan (Ethan Vishniac)
Subject: Re: Light Sails

> From: John Heimann <jheimann@BBNCCY.ARPA>
> 	I sat down and tried to sketch out just how fast a solar sail could
> reasonably be expected to go, assuming a point source of illumination (the
> sun), the usual inverse square law for drop-off of photon intensity, a bit of
> handwaving about the mean photon momentum, and some reasonable figures for the
> density of the sail material.  I realized then that I wasn't really sure how
> the thing was to operate after all.  Are solar sails designed to get their
> momentum from elastic collisions with solar photons (reflecting sunlight), or
> do they get most of it from collisions with other particles that are 
> constantly emitted from the sum (e.g. neutrons)?  A typical neutron from a 
> nuclear reaction packs a lot more momentum than a photon from the same 
> reaction, so this is an important issue.

*** REPLACE THIS ROCKET WITH YOUR SAIL ***

However, a typical neutron from a nuclear reaction in the core of the sun
will not emerge from the surface.  Neither will the typical photon.  Both
are subject to scattering.

The following numbers are taken from Allen's "Astrophysical Quantities" which
is a standard astronomical reference book.  The total energy flux from the
sun is 6.27x10^10 ergs/cm^2/sec.  If the sail reflects incident photons
elastically then the pressure on the sail is 2F/c (solar radius/distance)^2,
where c is the speed of light.  Normalizing to Earth orbital radius this becomes
about 9x10^-5 dynes/cm^2. 

Now suppose the sail also suffers inelastic collisions with particles in the
solar wind.  Allen gives the density of the solar wind as being about 5 protons
per cubic centimeter near the Earth.  The typical velocity is 450 km/sec.
This gives us a wind pressure of
   (proton mass)x5x(Velocity of wind - velocity of sail)^2
normalized to the radius of the Earth's orbit.  This gives us a pressure of
about 1.7x10^-8 (1-velocity of sail/450km/sec)^2.  However, Allen also mentions
that the number density is inversely proportional to the velocity up to some
(unspecified) limit.  This suggests that the above estimate is an underestimate
since the occasional high-momentum particles will be more important than the
more common low-momentum ones.
  Nevertheless the above estimate makes it clear that photons are probably
more helpful, if only by a little bit.  A more important point is that
if you just hold up your sail against the sun you'll have problems unless
your Area/mass ratio is quite large.  Below a critical limit you will simply
reduce the sun's gravity by a constant fraction.  The angular momentum you
posess from the Earth's orbit will carry you out to some distance from
the sun into a new, and larger orbit, and there you will stay.  You need to 
tilt your sail to gain angular momentum as you go.
  I hope this helps.  No comments on the mylar.  That's beyond me.  I'm
sure people have written letters about this in Nature or some such place.


"Don't argue with a fool.      Ethan Vishniac
 Borrow his money."            {charm,ut-sally,ut-ngp,noao}!utastro!ethan
                               Department of Astronomy
                               University of Texas
                               Austin, Texas 78712

*Anyone who wants to claim these opinions is welcome to them*

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Feb 85 19:51:37 pst
Message-Id: <8502220351.AA09083@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: uwvax!derek (Derek Zahn)
Subject: Re: Light Sails

I is only an ameteur, so bear with me.

I am under the impression that a Light Sail would get its propulsion from
the solar wind, a stream of protons and neutrons that are expelled from
the sun constantly (and cause the Aurora Borealis, I think).  It seems to
me that the "light pressure" from photons would be insufficient for any
substantial thrust.

What we need to know (from some more knowledgable source), is the velocity
and density of the solar wind.  If someone could post this and similar 
information, I would appreciate it, since I have been thinking about it
lately.  Anyway, from this, it should not be too hard to compute what
velocity could be attained by a light sail if we make some assumptions about
area/mass of the sail material.

I think that when launching a light sail, we would want to launch it directly
toward the sun.  The reason for this is that closer to the sun the solar wind
should be denser and we can get more thrust there -- in fact, I suspect that
most of our acceleration will be gotten quite close to the sun.

Any comments?

derek
-- 
Derek Zahn @ wisconsin
...!{allegra,heurikon,ihnp4,seismo,sfwin,ucbvax,uwm-evax}!uwvax!derek
derek@wisc-rsch.arpa

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Feb 85 23:32:02 pst
Message-Id: <8502220732.AA09452@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ames!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Re: Tales from the Orbital Crypt

> From: Tom Wadlow <TAW@S1-A.ARPA>
> 
> I read in one of the local papers that the SSI plan for space burial
> involved reducing the corpses to a very small size (roughly test-tube
> sized containers of ashes, I think) for placement in the orbital crypt.
> 
> I wonder how much of a light sail it would take to reach system escape
> velocity for such a payload, given:
> 
> 	- You don't care how long it takes.  (After all, you're dead)
> 	- All systems are likely to be entirely passive.  Ideally,

While in Earth orbit a light sail must do a lot of manuvering to keep
accelating.  This is obvious if you consider the geometric relationship
of the Sun to anything in a planetary orbit as time passes.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Feb 85 23:32:20 pst
Message-Id: <8502220732.AA09459@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ames!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Re:TENCATI at JPL-VLSI re:SPACE DIGEST V591

> From: nsc@Mitre-Bedford
> 
> 
> Amen to nix to guitars in space and, by the way, to cremaspaceatoriums.
> 
> Guitars in space sounds like a high school science fair project.  If the
> idea is to provide a forum for discussing space technology issues, this 
> is not one of them. It's a nit that's been fairly well picked by now.
> 
> Discussions of ashes in space will be as shortly remembered as discussions of
> the dynamics of hula hoops.
> 
> Concur with the idea of "INFO-SPACE-JUNK" (sorta reminds you of the defunct
> TV series QUARK, doesn't it?), but Ron's alternative is "INFO-NASA". That
> would be a fairly interesting and highly patronized bboard, I'm sure. But
> INFO-NASA is not exactly the same as INFO-SPACE. Nor is INFO-DOD-SPACE the
> same, but you can't talk about space in a vacuum (sorry). It's NASA and it's
> DOD and it's commercial space too. 
> 
> That's what I think (and thought before I signed on) SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS
> should be.
> 
> Bull (Navy Space Planner) (Views probably not exactly those of the management,
> but pretty close I'd reckon.)

I feel that the net in general is a good place for stuff on the fringe.  If
you spend much time on the fringe you're bound to go over the line from
time to time.  I, for one, didn't mind and even enjoyed the guitar
thing even though it was entirely off base.  At least it wasn't the
same old s---.

As for space burial, I think it's a idiotic concept - and that the net
is a perfect place to discuss it.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Feb 85 01:27:13 pst
Message-Id: <8502220927.AA09815@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: sunybcs!lazarus (Daniel G. Winkowski)
Subject: American Space Foundation (ASF)


	I don't know if this group has come to the attention of net.space
as of yet, they seem to be doing some importent pro-space loobying in DC.
Below is a copy of their statement of goals.
------
    "Recognizing that the US space program is critical to the future of our
nation and mankind, the ASF was formed to lobby in Washington for a stronger
American presence in space.
    The ASF is the nation's largest grassroots prospace lobby. It is a national
non-partisan organization financed entirely by our members. ... [plea for
support]...
    We believe mandkind must expand its frontiers beyond the confines of Earth"
ASF, 214 Massachusetts Ave., N.E., Suite 420, Washington, DC 20002
------

	Their Board of Directors looks impressive (so one would expect),
as does their newsletter. Does anyone know anything more about this
organization? Have the pro-space groups truely consolidated behind one
lobbying front?


-- 
Today we live in the future,
Tomorrow we'll live for the moment,
But, pray we never live in the past.
--------------
Daniel G. Winkowski @ SUNY Buffalo Computer Science (716-636-2879)
UUCP:	..![bbncca,decvax,dual,rocksanne,watmath]!sunybcs!lazarus
CSNET:	lazarus%Buffalo@CSNET-RELAY
ARPA:	see CSNET

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Feb 85 04:07:53 pst
Message-Id: <8502221207.AA10304@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: haddock!stevel
Subject: Re: Guitar in Space


How about using a steel guitar. No need for little finger tips.
Oh course you would have to use the slide all the time, but
I like a REAL guitar.

Steve Ludlum, decvax!yale-co!ima!stevel, {amd|ihnp4!cbosgd}!ima!stevel
Interactive Systems, 7th floor, 441 Stuart st, Boston, MA 02116; 617-247-1155

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Feb 85 04:08:11 pst
Message-Id: <8502221208.AA10311@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: haddock!stevel
Subject: Re: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #90

Professional???????????

Eugine(sp?) at ames is the only one who shows a truly
professionsal outlook in these groups, net.columba and net.space.
The rest of us are just kabitzers(sp? again) and late news service
readers. I subscribe so I like it but lets face reality.

Steve Ludlum, decvax!yale-co!ima!stevel, {amd|ihnp4!cbosgd}!ima!stevel
Interactive Systems, 7th floor, 441 Stuart st, Boston, MA 02116; 617-247-1155

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Feb 85 04:08:40 pst
Message-Id: <8502221208.AA10320@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: Guitar in Space


	Well I like the analysis, and I have to admit that when I
	originally posted a response suggesting the depth of sustain on an
	electric guitar, I had no idea that it would create so much
	traffic!

	I think that the electric piano would be far easier but would
	create problems of its own.

	As a player of keyboards, I would have to also conclude that the
	material of the suit has to have a lot of 'give' in the fingers
	arms of the suit. Also the stretch in the arms has to be
	appriciable to play both sub bass and extreme high end at the
	same time. gravity would make the action almost laughable
	(how many electic grands do you know have a spring rebound on the
	hammer and damper???) Here on earth gravity suffices, but in
	space there is none so the actions have to be rebuilt to correct
	this.

	You would have to bolt the piano down and also the player
	else in the middle of "funural for a friend" when the octave
	hits in the low end combined with the hammer chords in the high end
	will send piano and player in oppisite directions.

	The suit would have to have a lot of give in order for the player
	to have any speed in doing runs (aka ELP take a pebble, or Trilogy)

	A lot of this can be corrected with time and patience and until then
	...the sound will be different...

	(Just imagine getting a band together and playing in the cargo bay
	 (obviously have to record it and sell it in order to make up for
	 the expense)... What songs would you play???)

	I'd volenteer to play keyboards, now all we need is a bass and drums


						Peter Barada
						ima!pbear!peterb

PS      Reality is an escape for those who can not handle drugs...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Feb 85 04:08:57 pst
Message-Id: <8502221208.AA10327@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #90


	Where does it say that the list of subscribers HAS to be
	professional in this regard???  Who knows, in our ravings
	we may discover an answer to a pressing problem dealing
	with human operations in vacuum/zero-g.  I don't know
	about you, but I love to brainstorm a lot and usually it
	supplies some very interesting and workable results.

						Peter Barada
						ima!pbear!peterb

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Feb 85 04:09:12 pst
Message-Id: <8502221209.AA10334@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: construction techniques


	This may have been discussed previously, but I would like to
	start up a discussion on construction in space, the problems,
	and inventions required.

	Any type of construction is going to require raw materials, and
	the moon has plenty of those. Sun furnaces can be "bootstrapped"
	(i.e. start with very small furnace and melt some rock to form
	a solid material for a large spherical mirror by spinning the
	magna on a plate. light polish the surface and apply a coat of
	aluminum to the surface.(efficiency of reflection is not a
	problem, since there is ample energy available) this larger mirror
	can be used to melt more rock or to run a sterling engine for
	work. Even larger mirrors can be built, none of them optically
	pure, but if they were, the focus would vaporize a lot of things
	that got in its way.

	From here, rock can be melted down and used to create pipes for
	drainage or other low pressure work, larger containers can be cast
	from the rock.


		anybody else have any ideas?

						Peter Barada
						ima!pbear!peterb

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Feb 85 08:10:47 pst
Message-Id: <8502221610.AA11042@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ssc-vax!eder (Dani Eder)
Subject: Re: Space Station Book


     If you want all the gory, technical details on the Space Station,
at least as of August 1984, get this book:

Space Station Reference Configuration Description
Document #JSC-19989
From: Systems Engineering and Integration
Space Station Program Office 
NASA, Johnson Space Center
Houston, TX

786pp, 35 references, lots of illustrations

     I'm presently working on space station accommodations for the
Orbit Transfer Vehicle (i.e. I'm designing a spaceship garage and
gas station), and I find this book invaluble.

Dani Eder/Boeing/ssc-vax!eder

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Feb 85 08:19:55 pst
Message-Id: <8502221619.AA11141@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: sun!sunny (Ms. Sunny Kirsten)
Subject: UFOs

Does anyone have more information than this about the Betty & Barney Hill
UFO encounter, or about alien visitations?  or the paranormal equivalents?

TRADE Routes:
        Zeta  I Reticuli
        Zeta II Reticuli
        Alpha Mensae
*       Sol
           82 Eridani
        Tau Ceti
        Gliese 86
EXPEDITIONARY Routes:
        Gliese 59
        Tau 1 Eridani
        Gliese 67
         54 Piscium
        107 Piscium
PROBABLE INTELLIGENT LIFE:
        Kappa Fornacis
        Gliese 95
        Gliese 86.1

The above is the list of identifiable solar systems frequented by various
aliens according to a map drawn by Betty Hill under hypnosis in recalling
her and her husband Barney's encounter with a UFO near the Canadian border.
It includes stars which at the time of the encounter weren't on existing
star catalogs, but which were added by the time of her hypnotic recall of
the star chart she had seen inside the UFO in which she and her husband
were examined.
-- 
{ucbvax,decvax,ihnp4}!sun!sunny

------------------------------

Return-Path: <qantel!intelca!hplabs!ames!al>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 85 18:41:20 pst
From: <dual!qantel!hplabs!ames!al>
Message-Id: <8502220241.AA13689@HP-VENUS>
To: mordor!space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: DOD anti-capitalist?
References: <496@mordor.UUCP>

BRAVO!!!

------------------------------

Return-Path: <qantel!intelca!hplabs!ames!al>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 85 18:40:54 pst
From: <dual!qantel!hplabs!ames!al>
Message-Id: <8502220240.AA13669@HP-VENUS>
To: mordor!space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: Guitar in Space
References: <492@mordor.UUCP>

As a fellow guitarist working in the space program, I feel that playing
while EVA (space walk) is a little rediculous.  Stay inside the shuttle
(or space station or whatever) and pick your brains out --- should be
fun.  I wonder what acoustics are like in zero G.  I've heard that
they're a little different.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Feb 85 19:30:42 pst
Message-Id: <8502230330.AA14533@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: gwyn@brl-tgr.ARPA (Doug Gwyn <gwyn@brl-tgr.ARPA>)
Subject: Re: UFOs

I see "sol" is not listed under "PROBABLE INTELLIGENT LIFE".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Feb 85 23:32:51 pst
Message-Id: <8502230732.AA14934@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!kcarroll (Kieran A. Carroll)
Subject: Bellyache

*
I'm sorry about the multiple posting, but people in all
three of these newsgroups have taken to a particularly 
obnoxious practice, which I for one hope can be
curtailed through the judicious application of peer
pressure.  What I'm objecting to is the posting of
follow-up messages of the following form:

(routing and message-id info.)
>
> (THE ENTIRE TEXT of a message that EVERYBODY subscribing
>  to the newsgroup has already read , usually only in the last day or
>  two, and of which NOBODY on the net has yet forgotten
>  any of the details.
>>   Sometimes there'll be two
>>>    (or more)
>>   levels of these inserts; as far as I can see, their
>>   only purposes are to (a) demonstrate the sender's
>>   cleverness at being able to insert one message into
>>   another one, (b) increase the throughput of the net,
>>   without actually increasing the information content
>>   of the messages being transmitted, and (c) MAKE ME WASTE
>>   HUGE AMOUNTS OF TIME READING THE SAME MESSAGE OVER AND
>>   OVER AGAIN, ON THE OFF-CHANCE THAT THE SENDER HAS SOMETHING
>>   USEFUL TO SAY (GRRRR!!!!))
>  

---------------------------------------------------------------------
(name, address, birthdate, astrological sign, favorite food
of the sender, along with usually-not-very-entertaining
closing messages, sometimes covering half a screenful
of my terminal, and repeated EVERY SINGLE TIME the malefactor
posts a message!)


   My suggestion is: make posting to the net concise, to the
point and informative.  If you don't have anyhing to say, don't
say anything!  If you're responding to a message that somebody
else posted, do so via MAIL, and NOT via the newsgroup, unless
you're pretty sure that your message is of general interest
(after all, Publish or Perish doesn't yet apply to usenet
postings!).  
   If you disagree with all or part of the above, then 
please respond to me, via mail.  If you agree with all or part
of the above, then please respond to me, via mail.  
Whatever you do, DON'T insert this message into one of your
own, along with a line or two of comments at the end!
   I've been wating for the last month or two for somebody 
else to come out and complain about these nasty practices;
I'm sorry to have to be the one to do it (since I'm such a 
>nice< person, otherwise.  As, they say on the arpanet, Flame Off!
-Kieran A. Carroll
...decvax!utzoo!kcarroll

------------------------------

Return-Path: <qantel!intelca!hplabs!tektronix!carlc>
From: <dual!qantel!hplabs!tektronix!carlc>
Message-Id: <8502230654.AA29101@HP-VENUS>
Date: Friday, 22 Feb 85 08:05:28 PST
To: mordor!space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: Telescopes
Newsgroups: net.space
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR.

I don't buy your electronic telescope scheme.  A mirror "knows"
more than just the position (x,y,z) of a light ray impinging on it,
it knows the *direction* as well.  Without direction information, how
do you know where in the sky a ray came from?  In other words,
how does your scheme *focus* the light?
--Carl

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #95
*******************

24-Feb-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #96
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 96

Today's Topics:
			     Celestial Bodies
			American Space Foundation
			other musical instruments
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #90
			     RE: Space burial
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Feb 85 11:49:20 pst
Message-Id: <8502231949.AA16573@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utcs!shindman (Paul Shindman)
Subject: Celestial Bodies


[credit to Larry Davies of Thornhill Ont...]

So now we're going to send cremated remains into space.

I guess some lucky people will soon shuttle off their
mortal coil and become the world's first ashtronauts.

------------------------------

Date: 23 Feb 85 15:44:17 EST
From: Hank.Walker@CMU-CS-UNH
Subject: American Space Foundation
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

ASF is a space PAC independent of other such groups.  I have been a member
since it started in 1983.  They lobby about the usual space things, #1 right
now being the space station and 1986 NASA budget.  The politicians
associated with ASF are mostly conservative free-enterprisers like Harrison
Schmidt.  The big push prior to the space station was space deregulation and
licensing simplification, which succeeded.  They've taken member polls on
the SDI, but not any really hard position.  They send out a newsletter,
requests for letter-writing campaigns, money, etc.  This PAC is different in
philosophy than the Gerry O'Neill guitars-in-space PACs.

------------------------------

Date: 23 Feb 1985 18:57-EST
From: Chris.Koenigsberg@CMU-CS-G.ARPA
Subject: other musical instruments
To: space-network-source@mit-mc
Message-Id: <478051061/ckk@CMU-CS-G>

I think you have hit upon a worthwile subject, the
operation of musical instruments in zero-G. I'd
like to know how the mechanics of drawing a bow across
a violin/cello/bass string are affected. I know
my bass bow is extremely heavy and unbalanced and
most of my effort goes into holding the bow steady,
which would be a given in zero-G. Would this allow
previously unheard-of pyrotechnics on the cumbersome
double bass?

As for people who don't like this discussion, I
suppose you enjoy discussing weapons of war in orbit
more than instruments of music, huh?


          Chris Koenigsberg
          tektronix!hplabs!hao!seismo!rochester!cmu-cs-pt!cmu-cs-g!ckk
          ckk@cmu-cs-g.arpa
1025 MurrayHill Ave.
Pittsburgh, Pa. 15217
(412)362-6422
"The creative person looks upon everything in the world as a predator"
                    -Pierre Boulez

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Feb 85 23:56:11 pst
Message-Id: <8502240756.AA19322@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: dartvax!chuck (Chuck Simmons)
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #90

> we are thinking about our own local newgroups for discussing
> work related issues like what goes on the space station, but this
> would bore most people.  
> 
> --eugene miya

I, for one, would love to listen in on NASA's technical discussions.
Of course, I would hope that every now and then someone would explain
things for me, but I would not feel slighted if I could only read
without asking questions or posting comments.

chuck.simmons%d1@dartvax

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Feb 85 23:56:27 pst
Message-Id: <8502240756.AA19329@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: dartvax!chuck (Chuck Simmons)
Subject: RE: Space burial

> Has SSI considered the possibility that they could be starting  our
> first inter-stellar war?  I, for one, would consider it a very hos-
> tile act if someone were to fire little  ash-filled  titanium  cap-
> sules  at  me.   Such bullets propelled by light-sails, as at least
> one netter proposed, could  reach  their  victims  at  .999c  given
> enough  time.  Even if launched only with enough velocity to escape
> the solar system, those little bullets would pack  quite  a  wallop
> when  impacting  a  target  at  some  great differential speed.  An
> angry, intelligent civilization so threatened could  easily  calcu-
> late the trajectories and figure out where they came from.
> 
> ZAP! we're history!
> 
>  Paul Given             {ihnp4, houxe, stcvax!ihnp4}!drutx!pagiven

I assume this is humor?  My physics isn't very good, but...  It seems
to me that if one of these "bullets" encountered an atmosphere, it
would burn up creating a rather beautiful meteorite (?).  Also, it seems
that a civilization which had communities living outside the protection
of an atmosphere would have devised some other form of protection against
the occasional small but quickly moving object.  Finally, it seems to
me that civilizations would tend to be clustered around stars.  Could
a light-sail powered bullet get near another star at such a high speed?

chuck%d1@dartvax

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #96
*******************

25-Feb-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #97
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 97

Today's Topics:
			 Re: DOD anti-capitalist?
			Re: Solar Sailing remains
			     Re: Lunar mining
				  SSTO!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Feb 85 09:34:41 pst
Message-Id: <8502241734.AA20319@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: terak!doug (Doug Pardee)
Subject: Re: DOD anti-capitalist?

> However, the DOD in its infinite wisdom, wants to classify any mapping that
> NOAA does....
> DOD gave their half baked and rather lame excuse (Soviet submarines could
> figure out where to hide).

Another type of "classified data":  the coverage of the U.S. Air Traffic
Control RADAR.  Although it would seem to make a lot of sense to let
instrument pilots know, ahead of time, where they can expect to be out
of RADAR contact, that information is classified.

Now in the eastern U.S. there is essentially total RADAR coverage of
all instrument flight routes.  But not in the mountainous West.  You
ought'a see the look on the face of an out-of-state pilot flying V-105
from PRC to BLD when the air traffic controller routinely intones
"Cessna Five Two Whiskey, RADAR contact lost, resume normal position
reporting, request your estimate to Peach Springs."

Many instrument pilots have *never* had to give a normal position report
before.  They don't have an estimate ready, they've forgotten what the
chart symbols for "mandatory" and "on-request" reporting points are, and
they've even forgotten the format of a "normal" position report.

But at least the Ruskies don't know about the holes in the ATC RADAR
coverage (oh, no!  I just told them about one!)
-- 
Doug Pardee -- Terak Corp. -- !{hao,ihnp4,decvax}!noao!terak!doug

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Feb 85 11:34:12 pst
Message-Id: <8502241934.AA20458@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ISM780!chris
Subject: Re: Solar Sailing remains

I don't think this is a problem. Space is very big, and stars are
very far apart. I doubt if the lightsail capsule would get going
anywhere near the speed of light. (Any physicist who wants to
calculate the speed of the capsule as it passes the orbit of
Pluto, I would much appreciate it) It will take centuries to cross
the distance between us and the nearest star. It would be truly
unlikely if it ended up pointed towards anything near us. I doubt
if anybody anywhere and anywhen will ever notice out poor little
capsule. Such a capsule could pass through the solar system and
we would never notice it, unless it hit something.


		chris kostanick
		decvax!vortex!ism780!chris

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Feb 85 11:34:28 pst
Message-Id: <8502241934.AA20465@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ISM780!chris
Subject: Re: Lunar mining

 As i remember it, the moon rocks had a high titanium content
relative to earth rocks. Since titanium is strong, light, and
can withstand high tempretures, it seems like building a titanium
extractor using some of the solar mirrors would be useful.

 One problem of the moon is that solar stuff only works for
two weeks out of every four. Anybody got any ideas on how to
store energy for the two weeks the sun is down?

		chris kostanick
		decvax!vortex!ism780!chris

------------------------------

Date: 24 Feb 85 16:34:00 PST
From: WOO IL LEE <lee@su-star>
Subject: SSTO!
To: space%mit-mc <space%mit-mc@score>
Reply-To: WOO IL LEE <lee@su-star>


	From "Aerospace Americe", Feb. 85, pg.1:

.......Robert Cooper, director of the Defense Advanced Research Projects
Agency, says that variable geometry hydrogen-burning supersonic-combustion
ramjets (SCRAMjets) "using current state-of-the-art technology" could take
off horizontally and accelerate to Mach 25, using existing Pratt & Whitney
RL-10 rocket engines for final orbit injection. Motivation for their 
development, he said, is the need to reduce payload launch costs to $100/lb.


------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #97
*******************

27-Feb-85  0350	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #98
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 98

Today's Topics:
			     Digest numbering
			     Re: Light Sails
			     Re: Space burial
			Re: Light Sail Deployment
		  Re: Energy supply problems on the Moon
			  Single Stage to Orbit
			     Re: Light Sails
	    Re: Orphaned Response (Storing lunar solar power)
			  Launch Set for 4 March
		Launch Date Announced -- Launch Pad Report
		     Re: Net.space.junk and the like
			   Re: Teacher in space
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 85 10:57:12 pst
To: All
From: Ted Anderson <OTA@S1-A>
Subject: Digest numbering

As some of you may have noticed the last three digests we all numbered
issue 95.  I have fixed the problem with the macros and edited the archive
copies so that there is a 95, 96 and 97.  This digest should be issue 98.
	-The Moderator

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 85 05:33:12 pst
Message-Id: <8502251333.AA23019@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Light Sails

> ...  Are solar sails designed to get their
> momentum from ... reflecting sunlight ..., or
> do they get most of it from collisions with other particles that are
> constantly emitted from the sum (e.g. neutrons)?  ...

Sails are optical reflectors.  Neutrons and the like are much rarer than
photons, and are hard to stop as well.

> ...  Also, what's a good assumption as to the
> composition of the sail?  Would a large expanse of metallized mylar be
> reasonable...

Low-performance sails are typically assumed to be aluminized mylar.
High-performance sail designs are all (as far as I know) derived from
Eric Drexler's designs, which are aluminized *nothing*, just a layer of
aluminum about the thickness of a virus.  (Sorry for lack of numbers,
my references aren't handy.)  They are just as reflective and far, far
lighter than aluminized-mylar sails.  A hexagonal sail 10 km across
weighs only about 20 tons.  The major limitation of aluminum sails is that
they *must* be assembled in space; they are basically rigid structures
and cannot be folded up into a small package for launch.

If you really want high performance, especially in low Earth orbit, one
intriguing notion is to take a Drexler aluminum sail and punch it full
of very tiny (smaller than a wavelength of light) holes.  Holes which are
significantly smaller than a wavelength of light will not affect the
reflectivity of the sail, but they will lighten it considerably.  Just
as interesting, air molecules at orbital altitudes are independent of
each other and will go through tiny holes just as easily as through big
ones.  Not only does one get (say) a 75% weight reduction, one also gets
a 75% air-drag reduction.  The snag here is that nobody knows how to
make perforated-sail material yet.  Ultra-thin aluminum is easy, but the
holes are hard.  (Last I heard, anyway.)

> ... or would this rip to shreds under meteor impact?  ...

The density of dust and debris is too low to significantly damage a
sail, except in anomalous areas like planetary rings.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 85 07:38:22 pst
Message-Id: <8502251538.AA23233@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: nmtvax!maurice
Subject: Re: Space burial

>Has SSI considered the possibility that they could be starting  our
>first inter-stellar war?  I, for one, would consider it a very hos-
>tile act if someone were to fire little  ash-filled  titanium  cap-
>sules  at  me.   Such bullets propelled by light-sails, as at least
>one netter proposed, could  reach  their  victims  at  .999c  given
>enough  time.  Even if launched only with enough velocity to escape
>the solar system, those little bullets would pack  quite  a  wallop
>when  impacting  a  target  at  some  great differential speed.  An
>angry, intelligent civilization so threatened could  easily  calcu-
>late the trajectories and figure out where they came from.
>ZAP! we're history!

   By the time it wastes someone/something and they send something back,
provided that they can send something back we WILL be history.
   In thinking though, could that great siberian explosion (1908?)
be someone elses ash-filled titanium capsule hitting us first?

   roger

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 85 11:42:05 pst
Message-Id: <8502251942.AA24440@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: Light Sail Deployment

	Regarding light sails,

	I don't know if mylar is the best, but I  think  that  it
will work quite well.

	When building a  light  sail,  there  are  a  few  design
 problems  that  have  to be overcome, such as weight (obviously)
 rigidity, ease of deployment,  and  resistance  to  damage  from
 micro  meteors.   I  remember  a  story called "Sun Jammer" that
 described an earth to moon race by solar yachts.   These  varied
 in  design,  and  the  story  described  quite  a  bit about the
 problems of solar sails.

	One of the problems is how do you deploy a sail that is a
few miles in surface area, and then once deployed how do you keep
it in shape.

	One of the obvious ideas it to  spin  the  sail  and  use
centrifical  force  to  keep  the sail in place while it is being
deployed.  This is assuming that the sail has been  packed  in  a
tube  with  the shrouds to be released first and then as the tube
rotates the rest of the sail pulls it self out.  Also  the  speed
of  rotation  would  drop as more and more sail is released until
the entire sail is released.

	Once released and spinning the sail would form  a  circle
with  a  depressed  center  (from  photon pressure) and has to be
strutted in order for it to keep its shape for  a  few  millenia.
One  idea  I  thik  would  work is to us an foaming agent that is
released into mylar tubes that are bonded to the  sail  (backside
so as not to interfere with the mirror).  As the foam expands, it
would  rush  to  the  extreme  end of the tube that is exposed to
vacuum.  Also the centrifical force would help  it  on  its  way.
Then  the foam would vacuum cure and become rigid.  This may be a
little messy, but it would be quite simple in design.   Also  the
tubes would not have to worry about crimping since the foam would
expand  slightly  as  it  cured and cause the tubes to assume the
largest volume (a circle).

	The tubes can all be connected to a central valve at  the
apex  of  the  sail  and  once the foam is injected and cured the
deploment tube can jus cut itself away and the sail  would  start
on its journey.

	Steering the sail would be difficult, and  I  don't  have
the  answers to that one.  I would wish someone would pick up the
idea and bounce it around.

					Peter Barada
					ima!pbear!peterb

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 85 11:42:40 pst
Message-Id: <8502251942.AA24449@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: Energy supply problems on the Moon


Sure, park your solar energy producer on one of the poles, that way its in
the sun all the time (except for lunar eclipses)

either that, or you can build a heat resivoir and store the heat much as
solar houses do with a bed of rocks, and then use a sterling engine to
extract the energy from the heat differential during the dark period. This
only requires a rather large radiator for the sterling to throw awy its
heat. Then some of the excess thermal energy can be used to heat a living
space.


					Peter Barada
					ima!pbear!peterb

------------------------------

Date: 25 Feb 85 16:07:24 EST
From: Hank.Walker@CMU-CS-UNH
Subject: Single Stage to Orbit
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

Unless I've missed some new data, SCRAM jets have not yet achieved net
positive thrust.  Dual-fuel engines (kerosene/LH2) can be used to build a
single-stage-to-orbit vehicle, but these too need years of work to perfect.

------------------------------

Date: 25 Feb 85 16:16:18 PST (Monday)
From: Lynn.es@XEROX.ARPA
Subject: Re: Light Sails
To: jheimann@BBNCCY.ARPA
cc: lynn.es@XEROX.ARPA, space@MIT-MC.ARPA

In the talks I have heard on solar sails by the experts, it was stated
that the pressure of sunlight is in the range of a thousand to a million
times that of solar wind particles.  They speak of mylar lasting a few
months, and something more resistant to space (Kapton, or something like
that) lasting for a few years.  They also state that it is impractical
to sail beyond Mars or Jupiter because of diminished sunlight.  There
are thoughts on beaming light at a sail to overcome this, but that is
another story.
/Don Lynn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 85 21:47:58 pst
Message-Id: <8502260547.AA26332@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: mit-eddie!greg (Greg McMullan)
Subject: Re: Orphaned Response (Storing lunar solar power)

Peter says that we can avoid the problem of storing solar power 
for a moonbase during the 14 day night by placing the collector
at one of the poles. this has two problems. First, it necessitates
long power lines if we want our base to be anywhere but near the 
pole, which is not necessarily serious. Secondly, and more 
importantly, this then leaves us in the dark for the moon's `winter'
which I seem to recall is 6 months long. Not really a useful 
suggestion, then. 

Storing heat in the ground is a little better, but i suspect that 
the heat would diffuse away into the ground or radiate away (3 degrees
K heat sink, remember) too fast for this to be much of a help, as well.

If I am wrong, please tell me, as I would like to see a way around
the problem, but I haven't been able to see one.

					greg

uucp:				!genrad!mit-eddie!greg

arpa:				greg@grape-nehi%mit-mc
					or
				g.mcmullan@mit-eecs%mit-mc

us snail:			500 memorial drive
				cambridge, ma, 02139[-4326]
				(617) 225-8942

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 85 04:29:23 pst
Message-Id: <8502261229.AA27221@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: brunix!alb (Adam Buchsbaum)
Subject: Launch Set for 4 March

NASA yesterday announced that the 3 March launch date would probably slip
a day or two due to tardiness in rolling the Challenger to the launch pad.
The agency then set a new launch date at 4 March.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 85 04:29:40 pst
Message-Id: <8502261229.AA27228@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: brunix!alb (Adam Buchsbaum)
Subject: Launch Date Announced -- Launch Pad Report

NASA has set the launch date for the Challenger at 0821 EST on 4 March.
In order for the Discovery to maintain its 19 March liftoff date, it will
have to be moved to the launch pad just four days after Challenger
launches.  NASA expects to be able to complete this launch-pad turnaround
within ten shifts after launch.

With the Atlantis scheduled to join the shuttle fleet in April and
Columbia due back in service next summer, the launch pad crowding will get
more severe.  However, by January, 1986, it should not be bad at all, as
VAFB will be ready and so will pad 39B, a second launch pad at KSC.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 85 10:21:22 pst
Message-Id: <8502261821.AA28292@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: unm-cvax!val236ah
Subject: Re: Net.space.junk and the like

(a small sacrifice of a line for the sake of humanity)

O.K.-here is an example of
a) why the >messages should be used. (although I do admit some use them to
much excess

and b) why net.space should remain as such.


If there are people out there who are concerned that the subject material in
this newsgroup is getting silly and inane (Where's the article on playing
a funeral dirge on your guitar while your friends ashes sail away into space)
why don't they start posting articles about different subjects.  If you don't
like what your reading, throw forth a topic for discussion.

Oh, by the way, what in the hell is a:


> variable geometry hydrogen-burning supersonic-combustion ramjet?
(here lies an example of a correctly used >statement.)

Is it some form of rocket with a fancy name or what??

	Ronald C. Rosul Jr. (val236ah)

line to me (I think)-lanl!unmvax!unm-cvax!val236ah
"Thats one small step for a man....."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 85 10:23:45 pst
Message-Id: <8502261823.AA28312@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: faron!meister (Philip W. Servita)
Subject: Re: Teacher in space

>          I'd rather have a Senator in space than a teacher . . . but I'd
>rather the Senator was William Proxmire; maybe they'd leave him up there! :-)

...

>was still pretty put off by it.  The first REAL civilian in space should be
>someone who can relate the beauty and excitement of the experience to those
>of us who are back on the ground, preferably a writer or journalist, not a
>teacher.  (Sorry, mom.)


nah. the first civilian up in space should be Andy Rooney. 

"Have you ever thought about vaccuum? I have, and this is what I've 
 found out..."

                                             -the venn buddhist

---------------------------------------------------------------------
         is anything really trash before you throw it away?
---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #98
*******************

28-Feb-85  0350	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #99
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 99

Today's Topics:
		     Re: Net.space.junk and the like
			    Solar observation
			      Re: Bellyache
		       Re: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #90
			Re: Single Stage to Orbit
			     mining the moon
		 Re: Re: Orphaned Response (Storing lunar
			Re: Light Sail Deployment
			     Re: Light Sails
			     Re: Light Sails
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 85 11:46:40 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8502261946.AA04329@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: Net.space.junk and the like

	I apologize for submitting this to the full space mailing list, but
the usenet correspondent is otherwise unreachable by me.

	Anyway.  The real problem, for you usenet people, is that Arpa
mailing lists are precisely that -- about ten minutes after I send this mail
off, it will arrive in the mailbox of every other reader of this group on
the arpanet.  This means that:

(a) Every message is an additional strain on every Arpa mailer,
packet-switcher, and disk server; and

(b) My mailbox, and others, get very cluttered with what is really junk
mail.  I've just arrived after four days out of the office and I had *92*
mail messages, many of them from usenet correspondents of this newsgroup.
This is at least a fivefold increase in volume on this mailing list over the
period when it was an arpa-only mailing list.  Many of us find this volume
unacceptable, and hence there are three options:

(1) We can unsubscribe, and form a new arpa-only space mailing list;
(2) We can close the gateway, and split off a new combined mailing list:
maybe usenet.space; or
(3) Find someone who will act as a fairly draconian moderator and refuse to
resend nonsense (I mean, .999c as a velocity for a light sail...) messages.

	I favor option (2).

						Rick.

------------------------------

Date:     Tue, 26 Feb 85 13:48:31 CST
From:     Will Martin -- AMXAL-RI <wmartin@ALMSA-1.ARPA>
To:       space@Mit-Mc.ARPA
Subject:  Solar observation

I noticed, in a recently-posted propagation forecast over on Info-Hams (or
net.ham-radio), a reference to a certain part of the sun coming back into 
view, due to solar rotation. (This was in reference to activity on that
part of the solar surface, and its effect on the ionosphere.)

Anyway, that made me wonder -- do we now have sufficient spacecraft in
solar orbits that we can keep the entire solar surface in view all the
time? Or do we just have a few (or just one), making near-sun observations?
I'm so used to having a myriad of earth satellites that I lose track of
what is going on in other parts of the solar system. I would think it
would pay economic benefits to know what is going on all over the solar
surface, since what is happening on the opposite side will hit us a
few days later on. Is such a program in effect now, in the planning stages,
or not being considered as worthy of the cost involved?

Regards, Will

ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA     USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 85 23:44:36 pst
Message-Id: <8502270744.AA01513@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: mot!johnrk (John Koehring)
Subject: Re: Bellyache

I second Kieran's sentiments.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 85 04:51:08 pst
Message-Id: <8502271251.AA02376@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Re: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #90

> Professional???????????
> 
> Eugine(sp?) at ames is the only one who shows a truly
> professionsal outlook in these groups, net.columba and net.space.
> 
> Steve Ludlum, decvax!yale-co!ima!stevel, {amd|ihnp4!cbosgd}!ima!stevel
> Interactive Systems, 7th floor, 441 Stuart st, Boston, MA 02116; 617-247-1155

permit me to crawl out my cave while our systems people get cft 1.14 installed.

professional? me? consider me in the usenix jargon: an "un-official."
why would anybody take space seriously?  it's no better reality, but i must
confess working on space projects: so far seasat, voyager, hcmm, landsat
was childhood ambition. [what to do rocky horror groupies use as their
ending quote?]  don't take space too seriously [within limits].   don't
take me to seriously: i have not worked on shuttle or other manned
projects, nor on the space station.  the postings by phil and adam to
net.columbia as well as numerous others are as good as having other nasa
centers on the net [better in some ways].  fortunately
for me, my management approves my scanning the usenet.  they have been
impressed by posting of net.jobs, requests for device drivers on
net.wanted, and so forth.

now i am out of direct space work and into supercomputing.  i lunch with
space station and pioneer project people, but yearn for deep space work.
nuclear winter research is important, too.  regarding the news group,
i think ron's letter and subsequent follow on have sparked new thinking.
last week's quality: postings on extraterrestial intelligence and
space construction are quite impressive.

although space digest is archived on the arpanet, what the news group
needs the most is some sort of long-term collective memory.  i've suggested
this to net.astro with meager response.  we need summary collections of
past discussions to prevent going in circles and rediscovering the "wheel."
something like mark horton's introduction to reading network news is in
order.  it's that simple.  the problem is the disk space and access.
anybody want to experiment with optical storage?

time to crawl back to the cray and "non" debug the new compiler.

suffering diarrhea of the mouth.
--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,vortex}!ames!aurora!eugene
  emiya@ames-vmsb.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 85 04:44:45 pst
Message-Id: <8502271244.AA02313@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: haddock!stevel
Subject: Re: Single Stage to Orbit

> Unless I've missed some new data, SCRAM jets have not yet achieved net
> positive thrust.  

In this weeks Aviation Week & Space Technology page 52 claims 
"Testing has already produced net thrust to drag ratios of better
then one at high Mach numbers."

Later in the article.
"The relativly small engine has been tested at speeds around Mach
4, and researchers plan to begin tests at higher speeds this
year."

Steve Ludlum, decvax!yale-co!ima!stevel, {amd|ihnp4!cbosgd}!ima!stevel
decwrl!amd!ima!stevel, {uscvax|ucla-vax|vortex}!ism780!stevel
Interactive Systems, 7th floor, 441 Stuart st, Boston, MA 02116; 617-247-1155

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 85 07:53:24 pst
Message-Id: <8502271553.AA02821@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: npois!jay (Anton Winteroak)
Subject: mining the moon

	Bob Mauritsen asked about the consequences of developing the
moon. This is a subject that I've done a fair amount of thinking about in
the past.

	Amoung the things that come to mind are: 1.) The main complaint
about strip mining the Earth seems to be that it makes the mined area
look like the moon. This is not a problem on the moon. Also there is no
delicate ecology to screw up. Also there is no mechanism for disolving
and transporting toxic wastes.
	2.) The largest problems that would result in terms of future research
opportunities being ruined would have to do with a surface layer of dust
and absorbed modern gases being created. This would not affect lower layers.
        3.) It is my hope for the future that the cost of polluting the
Erth will become so high, and the cost of manufacturing in space so low,
that polluting industries will mostly move to the moon or elsewhere. This
could result in economic problems here for a while, but that would be
a small price to pay for a clean habitable planet.

	Of course the moon has some valuable raw materials, but I think in
the long run we will find that it's cheaper to go get a metalic asteroid
and strip mine that. That would certainly be easier than mining Mars.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 85 13:33:53 pst
Message-Id: <8502272133.AA03899@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: Re: Orphaned Response (Storing lunar


	I don't think that the heat from the ground will escape fast IF
You use insulation, or even just leave it. The moon is after all the
biggest example of a dewer flask...

					Peter


PS      I didn't know that the moon had a 'winter'.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 85 13:36:17 pst
Message-Id: <8502272136.AA03927@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: petrus!karn
Subject: Re: Light Sail Deployment

Does anyone know just how high you have to be to construct a "high
performance" solar sail? Aside from atmospheric drag (which makes
your average space shuttle orbit useless) there is also a rather
large gravity gradient at low altitudes which might rip a delicate
sail.

Phil

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 85 15:33:21 pst
Message-Id: <8502272333.AA04458@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: uwvax!derek (Derek Zahn)
Subject: Re: Light Sails

> In the talks I have heard on solar sails by the experts, it was stated
> that the pressure of sunlight is in the range of a thousand to a million
> times that of solar wind particles.  

Got time for a dumb question?  Too bad.  I can't figure how the energy of
photons from the sun is going to be converted into motion of the light sail.
I jus' don't get it.  If the photon is reflected, there can be no change in
momentum of the sail (momentum being conserved), unless the photon loses
energy.  In this case, what is the mechanism that causes the transfer of
momentum, and how efficient could it possibly be?  If the photon is absorbed,
it seems much more likely that the energy would be converted to heat.
Somebody help, for I is baffled.

derek
-- 
Derek Zahn @ wisconsin
...!{allegra,heurikon,ihnp4,seismo,sfwin,ucbvax,uwm-evax}!uwvax!derek
derek@wisc-rsch.arpa

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 85 22:44:24 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an z29-e) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8502280644.AA27314@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: uwvax!derek@Berkeley, space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: Light Sails
Cc: 

	A photon's momentum is proportional to its frequency (quantum
mechanically, that is...)  Hence the momentum transfer to the sail is
expressed as an increase in the photon's wavelength.

						Rick.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #99
*******************

01-Mar-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #100    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 100

Today's Topics:
		 RE: spce burial out of this solar system
			     Re: Light Sails
			energy for the lunar night
			  Possible Postponement
		    photon wavelengths and solar-sail
		  Re: photon wavelengths and solar-sail
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 85 17:57:24 pst
From: <dual!amd!amdcad!fortune!hpda!hplabs!ames!al>
Message-Id: <8502270157.AA28623@HP-VENUS>
To: mordor!space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: RE: spce burial out of this solar system
References: <608@mordor.UUCP>

Photon impact is the source of propulsion.  Don't worry about meteors.  
Any material heavy enough to resist meteor impact is too heavy for
photons to push around.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 85 11:39:40 pst
Message-Id: <8502281939.AA01141@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: rochester!nemo (Wolfe)
Subject: Re: Light Sails

> Got time for a dumb question?  Too bad.  I can't figure how the energy of
> photons from the sun is going to be converted into motion of the light sail.
> I jus' don't get it.  If the photon is reflected, there can be no change in
> momentum of the sail (momentum being conserved), unless the photon loses
> derek
Remember that the momentum is directed.  The mv of the photon becomes -mv
when it is reflected, so there is a net momentum change of 2mv, which is
imparted to the reflecting surface.  There are these little globes with
vacuum and a paddle/pivot mechanism inside which work on this principle.
The four paddles are arranged so that the intersection of the two planes
is the axis of rotation of the pivot.  Each paddle has a black side and a
silver side with radial symmetry.  Placed in light, the paddle(s) on one
side of the pivot will reflect the light, the one(s) on the other will absorb
the light.  The absorbing surface gets only the inelastic momentum change,
or mv, while the reflecting surface gets the 2mv momentum change.  This
creates a torque on the paddle structure, and the little bugger rotates.
Available at novelty stores near you!
Nemo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 85 12:02:40 pst
Message-Id: <8502282002.AA01447@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: npois!jay (Anton Winteroak)
Subject: energy for the lunar night

	While I can't give numbers for efficiency, I can tell you that
even on earth we use thermal reservoirs. Typically they are large bags
(10**6 gallons) of water that are surrounded by insulation, and kept
under dirt, and a playground. They are used in the Northeastern US to
heat schools during the winter. The water is made hot during the summer
using water heating solar panels.

	The same basic concept should be usable on the moon, though
I imagine that a substance other than water would be used there. Sodium
might be best, if we can find any up there. (Most of the surface samples
from the moon were pretty low in sodium). Also some more intense way of
heating the reservoir would be needed.

	As was pointed out earlier on this net, there are ways to convert
this heat to electricity.

	I suppose, that it might be heated with the waste energy from
the refining of the aluminum and titanium.

	My image of how such an operation might run, is that energy intensive
things would be done during the daylight, and set up, and take down would
be done at night. I haven't really thought it through, but we have time.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 85 12:06:24 pst
Message-Id: <8502282006.AA01496@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: brunix!alb (Adam Buchsbaum)
Subject: Possible Postponement

A hydrogen leak and a faulty battery may postpone Monday's launch of the
Challenger by up to two weeks, NASA said today.  The leak, between the
shuttle and its external tank, may not be serious enough to postpone the
launch, but one of the satellites in the payload bay may have to have one
of its batteries replaced, which would necessitate a ''stand-down.''

------------------------------

Date: 28 Feb 85 16:51:42 EST
From: LANTZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: photon wavelengths and solar-sail
To: space-enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA

	If the energy transfered to the sail results in a shift in the
wavelength of the photon, is it true that a sail wich is moving faster
(producing greater red-shift) receives more energy from each photon?
I would guess that this is not the case due to factors having to do with
relative velocity of the sail and the observer, but I am not able to put
it all together.  

Brian Lantz (Lantz@Rutgers)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 85 14:58:31 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8502282258.AA07587@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: LANTZ@RUTGERS.ARPA, space-enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Re: photon wavelengths and solar-sail

	Sorry, my message was quite incorrect.  As another correspondent
has pointed out, it is not the wavelength of the photon that is affected,
but rather the vector. Since momentum is a vector quantity, not scalar, the
total net momentum transfer to the sail is 2P, where P is the momentum of
the entire set of photons impacting the sail.  To see how this works,
remember that the *vector* momentum is conserved; to a first approximation,
we imagine the sail to be travelling in a linear direction x, with 0
momentum in this reference frame.  We then imagine a solid photon wavefront
with aggregate momentum P travelling in the positive x axis.  The photon
rebounds in a perfect elastic collision along the x axis...

Total Momentum before collision:

P (photons) + 0 (sail)

Total Momentum following collision:

-P (photons) + x (sail)

equating and solving, we get x = 2P.   (1)

	Of course, this is idealized.  The total momentum transfer to the
sail can be obtained by integrating the momenta of the photons before and
after the collision.  This is related to wavelength by the DeBroglie formula:

	mv = hf,

where h is Planck's constant and f = 1/lambda.

	The wavelength will have lengthed by Compton's formula:

	lambda' = lambda + h/mc (1 - cos theta)

where m is the mass of the particle that the photon collided with, and theta
is the angle of the deflection...

	In our idealized case, theta = pi, hence (assuming the entire mass
of the sail is involved in a collision), we get (note I'm assuming coherent
light):

	lambda' = lambda + 2 h / mc  (2)

	writing lambda as l, the total momentum of the photon wavefront
post-collision is:

	h/(l+2h/mc)

	hence the total momenta of the photon post-collision is:

	P[1-2h/(clm+2h)] (3)

	as a result, there's a net loss of momentum transfer from (1) due to
the (trivial) redshift noted in (2).  The total net momentum transfer to the
sail is then:

	2P[1-h/(clm+2h)]


	Bottom line: yes, as I said yesterday, there *is* a redshifting
effect.  However, its net effect on the momentum of the light sail is
*negative*, not positive, and it is trivial.  Sorry about that.  Hope this
clears everything up.  [NB -- the effect here is the *maximum* loss due to
the Compton effect...]


						Rick.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 85 11:41:37 est
From: Tony Guzzi <tonyg%uconn.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA

RE: the maiden voyage of the shuttle Altantis

Does anyone have any info on the tentative launch date (or dates)?

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #100
*******************

02-Mar-85  0351	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #101    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 101

Today's Topics:
			    Crookes radiometer
			     Photon momentum
		     Momentum transfer in light sails
		   Re: Momentum transfer in light sails
			     Re: Light Sails
			     lunar heat sink
				Correction
			     Re: Light Sails
			  Re: Orphaned Response
			     Re: Light Sails
			       Lunar Mining
				Re: SSTO!
			  Re: Orphaned Response
			     Re: Light Sails
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 85  8:33:16 EST
From: Dick Koolish <koolish@bbncd2.arpa>
Subject: Crookes radiometer
To: space@mit-mc.arpa

Crookes radiometer does not work by light pressure.  The globe contains
a low pressure gas.  The incomming light heats up the dark side of the
vanes.  When a gas molecule hits the dark vane, it absorbes some of the
heat and rebounds faster than if it hit the cool silvered side of the vane.
This is what makes the vanes turn.

------------------------------

Date: 1 Mar 85 11:12:32 EST
From: BIESEL@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: Photon momentum
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

About that dime-store gizmo with the black and silver vanes: it is a common
misconception that it rotates because of the difference in momentum exchange
between the light and dark sides. T'aint so. Careful observation will show
that the wheel turns in a direction that implies that there is a greater
force per unit area on the dark side of the vanes than on the light side.
In fact, the propulsive force is thermal: the dark paddle gets warmer than
the light side; this in turn heats the remaining air molecules in the bulb
differentially. The consequent minute pressure differences between light
and dark sides of the vanes make the whole thing spin. Note that the bulb
contains a rather poor vacuum. Too much air and the viscous drag keeps the
thing from turning, too little air, and the heat engine doesn't work any more.
In a very good vacuum you'd have an approximation of your light sail;
unfortunately it would not work, because the forces generated by photon
momentum exchange are orders of magnitude less than the radiant energy in
the photon stream which the little heat engine is using, and would not
suffice to overcome the friction in the system. (unless you had *very*
good bearings, were fanatical about balancing the thing, etc.)

	Biesel@rutgers.arpa

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 85 11:34:20 pst
From: bsuper%ucbtopaz.CC@Berkeley
Message-Id: <8503011934.AA03432@ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA>
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Momentum transfer in light sails

     After reading Rick McGeers' description of momentum transfer between
photons and a light sail, it seems to me that all momentum imparted to the
sail must be radial to the sun.  Is there any way to impart momentum to the 
sail in a tangential direction?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 85 12:18:51 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8503012018.AA21539@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: bsuper%ucbtopaz.CC@Berkeley, space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: Momentum transfer in light sails

	Sure there is.  Use various sails, of differing sizes, at varying
angles and distances from your craft.  The momentum vector of your craft
is the sum of the momentum vectors of the various light sails, which are all
radial to the sun (but the sum vector need not be).

	The restriction is that net momentum is always *away* from the sun:
you can't accelerate in a sunward direction using a light sail.

	Actually, now that I think of it, there's no reason that the
momentum vector of a sail need be radial to the sun: if the sail were
forced to deform, so that pole of the sail was not in its centre, then the
resultant vector *wouldn't* be radial to the sun.

	Further thought on tacking into the sun: yes, it can be done, if you
use gravitational interactions.  That is, tack in an outbound direction
against your current elliptical solar orbit: you'll kill your radial
velocity and fall inward.

							Rick.

------------------------------

Date:     Fri,  1 Mar 85 17:43:52 CST
From: Mike Caplinger <mike@rice.ARPA>
Subject:  Re: Light Sails
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA
Message-Id:  <mike.632@Dione.rice>

The original question was more about conservation of ENERGY than
conservation of momentum.  The momentum of a reflected photon is
reversed, but its energy, a scalar, is the same (assuming perfect
reflection = no wavelength shift.  The velocity, hence kinetic energy,
of a photon can't change.)

So if the sail starts moving from the impulse, where did the kinetic
energy of its motion come from?  Remember that in a collision both
momentum AND energy are conserved.

I would really like to know the answer.  My physics seems to be too
rusty to generate it, but I know there's something funny...

	- Mike

ps.  Those bulbs with the vanes ("radiometers") invariably spin in the
WRONG direction.  That effect is caused by bad vacuum in the bulb
causing convection currents off the black surface.  If light pressure
were doing it, they would rotate black surface first, as the white
surfaces are reflecting, not absorbing, and get twice the momentum
exchange.

------------------------------

Date: 1 Mar 85 20:11:56 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: lunar heat sink
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

There is at least one mountain peak at the North Lunar pole that is always
in sunlight. It is also true that craters there are always in shadow, thus
the idea that water might exist in the ultralow temperatures. Some have
suggested that ion sputtering may have destroyed any water that existed
there. Anyway, I digress. A solar collector could be run there. You could
also use the eternal temperature difference for a heat-engine, particularly
if you use a mirror to increase the temperature of the hot pole, and thus
increase the amount of work that can be extracted from the system. I believe
there may be some discussion of this idea in the literature. In fact I think
there was a paper on it presented at the Lunar Base Symposium in DC last
October.

As to the lunar soil, I believe that it has a high thermal conductivity, and
thus your heat sink would rapidly warm up the surrounding several kilometers
by a few tenths of a degree.  (If anyone out there has the real conductivity
figures, please jump in).

I'd really suggest a small fission reactor.  You don't even need shielding.
Just stuff it in a convenient crater.  Same thing with the waste products.
They certainly aren't going anywhere.  Once things the economics are right,
you'll probably beam energy from an SPS as an additional source.

Someone also was asking about the titanium in lunar regolith. The lunar
highlands consists of a quite reasonable ore grade for titanium. I believe
it's on the same order as the rutile sands in Australia where we currently
get most of our titanium.

I'd also suggest that anyone interested in these topics read through the
SSI/AAS Space Industrialization proceedings. You'll learn an enormous amount
and avoid reinventing the wheel, the hub and the chariot.

I'm glad someone finally jumped in with facts on the Drexler light sail. I
was about ready to give Eric a call and have him dictate an answer. By the
way, he has a book coming out next fall on molecular engineering. Watch for
it.

A space burial via solar sail is certainly not going to attain .999c.
However, using a very high power laser, like the SDI ones and a VERY good
mirror, it might be possible to reach terminal velocities that are
substantial fractions of c.

Those same lasers would be quite good for building Dr. Kantrowitz's laser
launchers. That concept is a simple ceramic combustion chamber with pulsed
lasers supplying energy from the ground. The initial reaction mass is the
air that rushes into the chamber between pulses. Some additional mass may be
needed for orbit injection. The beauty of the process is that it puts things
in orbit for a few dollars/pound.

I think a good milestone to use when looking at orbit costs is the potential
energy of an object at orbital altitude and it's kinetic energy at orbital
speed. I'm too lazy at the moment to recalculate the numbers, but I believe
in terms of KWHrs, it should only cost pennies/pound.

As to music, I think we've now got enough members for the first lunar pick
up band:	Guitar, bass, cello, piano... (is there an electronic
drummer out there?) How about calling ourselves (groan) "The Space
Invaders"?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 85 20:09:36 pst
Message-Id: <8503020409.AA03041@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: rochester!nemo
Sender: rochester!nemo
Subject: Correction

From: Richard Newman-Wolfe  <nemo>


Whoops.  The little dohicky with the paddles actually rotates the *other*
way in a *partial* vacuum due to a totally different effect.  Namely the
dark side absorbs more photons and heats up, transfers the heat to the gas
near the surface, which then expands, pushing the paddle away.  
Ne (face radiating a good deal of heat) mo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 85 20:11:43 pst
Message-Id: <8503020411.AA03083@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: uwvax!judah (Judah Greenblatt)
Subject: Re: Light Sails

> ...  Each paddle has a black side and a
> silver side with radial symmetry.  Placed in light, the paddle(s) on one
> side of the pivot will reflect the light, the one(s) on the other will absorb
> the light.  The absorbing surface gets only the inelastic momentum change,
> or mv, while the reflecting surface gets the 2mv momentum change.  This
> creates a torque on the paddle structure, and the little bugger rotates.
> Available at novelty stores near you!
> Nemo

The principle of light pressure is correct, but unfortunatly, it is not
what drives a radiometer (as these little toys are called).
If you look closely at a radiometer spinning in the sunlight, you will see
that the vanes spin with the SILVER face leading and the BLACK face trailing.
If light pressure drove the spinner, the BLACK face should lead and the SILVER
face (which would be pushed twice as hard by the light pressure) would follow.

The radiometer is actually a simple heat engine: the BLACK side of the vane
heats up slightly more than the SILVER side and the vanes are driven by
the difference in momemtum of gas molicules bouncing off the warmer and
cooler sides.  

Light pressure is actually much weaker than the forces that drive a radiometer.

Judah Greenblatt		ARPA: judah@wisc-rsch.arpa
U. of Wisconsin C.S. Dept.	UUCP: {seismo ihnp4 lbl-csam}!uwvax!judah

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 85 20:28:19 pst
Message-Id: <8503020428.AA03289@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: sjuvax!mccann (mccann)
Subject: Re: Orphaned Response


     The problem of the moon being in darkness for 2 out of four weeks (and 
thus unable to use solar power) could (I think) be solved by using a large
solar power gathering satlleite orbiting in such a way that it could send
power down to the base (either simply as reflected light or by using solar
cells and beaming it down as microwaves.) The biggest problem with this is
that I don't know if there is such a location. Any body know?
M. McCann

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 85 20:42:23 pst
Message-Id: <8503020442.AA03461@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ssc-vax!eder (Dani Eder)
Subject: Re: Light Sails

> > From: John Heimann <jheimann@BBNCCY.ARPA>
> > 	I sat down and tried to sketch out just how fast a solar sail could
> > reasonably be expected to go, assuming a point source of illumination (the
> more helpful, if only by a little bit.  A more important point is that
> if you just hold up your sail against the sun you'll have problems unless
> your Area/mass ratio is quite large.  Below a critical limit you will simply
> reduce the sun's gravity by a constant fraction.  The angular momentum you
> posess from the Earth's orbit will carry you out to some distance from
> the sun into a new, and larger orbit, and there you will stay.  You need to 
> tilt your sail to gain angular momentum as you go.
> "Don't argue with a fool.      Ethan Vishniac
>  Borrow his money."            {charm,ut-sally,ut-ngp,noao}!utastro!ethan

     Congratulations! Ethan has rediscovered the 'lightness ratio'.  This is a performance measure for solar sails.  It is the ratio of light pressure to gravitational attraction for a given sail.  Since both fall off as inverse square of
distance, the figure is a constant for that sail.  Light pressure is
F=2P/c, where P is the light falling on the sail (watts), c is the speed of
light, and 2 is for a perfect reflector.  A typical real sail might be
1.8, meaning 80% reflected light.  The gravitational attraction is GMm/r^2,
where G is the gravitational constant, M is the mass of the Sun, m is
the mass of the sail, and r is the distance between them.  

     A lightness ratio of 1 means the sail can hang motionless, balanced
between gravity and light.  If the ratio is greater than 1, then on a
radial escape mission, at every point on the trajectory, net outward
force is (lightness ratio - 1)x gravity.  The final velocity is then
(L.R. - 1)^.5 x escape velocity.  Since escape velocity depends on 
where you start, there is no single answer.  For the more complicated
case of a spiral out mission, I don't know what the answer would be.

     As for what you make your solar sail out of, you use VERY thin
aluminum foil, preferably less than one micron thick.  Typical plans
call for vapor depositing the sail material in orbit, then somehow
getting it off the substrate.  Use graphite fibers to hang the aluminum
off of.  Spin the whole structure slowly, thus all the structure is
in tension, and tends to stay flat.  Don't get too near the Earth.
Below about 1000 km, air drag exceeds light pressure, and you fall
out of the sky very fast.

     Eric Drexler of L5 fame, and Robert L Forward, at Hughes Research
Laboratories (and science fiction writer) are two names you can look
up in abstracts for articles.  I've been a fan of lightsails (any non
rocket transportation, in fact) for quaite a while, so I can try to
answer any more questions you might have.

Dani Eder / ssc-vax!eder / Boeing / Advanced Space Transportation
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 85 20:42:39 pst
Message-Id: <8503020442.AA03468@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ssc-vax!eder (Dani Eder)
Subject: Lunar Mining

> 
>  As i remember it, the moon rocks had a high titanium content
> relative to earth rocks. Since titanium is strong, light, and
> can withstand high tempretures, it seems like building a titanium
> extractor using some of the solar mirrors would be useful.
> 
>  One problem of the moon is that solar stuff only works for
> two weeks out of every four. Anybody got any ideas on how to
> store energy for the two weeks the sun is down?
> 
> 		chris kostanick
> 		decvax!vortex!ism780!chris

     During the lunar day, focus sunlight on a patch of ground.
Two weeks later, by nightfall, you should have a big puddle of
molten rock.  Hold up your photovoltaics to it.  They work just
dandy in the near infra-red.        

Dani Eder / ssc-vax!eder / Boeing

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 85 00:10:39 pst
Message-Id: <8503020810.AA04623@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: SSTO!

SCRAMjet technology is mostly on paper.  It is extraordinarily difficult
to test realistically, since airframe and engine have to be integrated
closely (or so I'm told), and nobody's felt like financing a dedicated
research aircraft just to check it out.

SSTO does not require SCRAMjets, or variable geometry either.  It can
probably be done with an aerospike nozzle plus modern lightweight
structural materials, burning conventional propellants in a fairly
conventional way.  There is little in the way of difficult or uncertain
engineering in this approach.  (By contrast, variable-geometry SCRAMjets
sound like a recipe for horrendous complexity and expense.)  And some
of the folks pushing this method think that $100/lb is a ridiculously
high cost to orbit and could be beaten easily.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 85 00:12:00 pst
Message-Id: <8503020812.AA04641@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Orphaned Response

>  As i remember it, the moon rocks had a high titanium content
> relative to earth rocks. Since titanium is strong, light, and
> can withstand high tempretures, it seems like building a titanium
> extractor using some of the solar mirrors would be useful.

Actually, a fair number of earth rocks have substantial titanium
content.  The problem with titanium is not finding it, but getting
it out -- it's ferociously chemically active and hangs on TIGHT to
elements like oxygen.  You've got to do a good job of separation,
too, because even a trace of oxygen makes it brittle.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 85 00:12:48 pst
Message-Id: <8503020812.AA04652@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: micomvax!peter
Subject: Re: Light Sails


On the question of how photons can impart energy to a light sail,
I imagine a reflected photon would lose energy to the sail, so it
(the photon) would go to a lower frequency, longer wavelength, etc.
You shine blue light at a receding light sail, and get red light back.
For a sail starting from rest, the photon wavelength shift would probably
be immeasurably small, but still non-zero.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #101
*******************

03-Mar-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #102    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 102

Today's Topics:
			   Re:  Re: Light Sails
			       Lunar Colony
		   Solar sail energy transfer mechanism
		    Re: Moon chemicals/energy storage
			   Re:  Re: Light Sails
			      Sen in Space.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 85 10:25:46 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an z29-e) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8503021825.AA10510@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: mike@rice.ARPA, space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re:  Re: Light Sails
Cc: 

	I've said so many contradictory things about this issue that most of
them must be wrong.  As a result, I leave this to someone who knows more
about physics than I do.  However, Tipler, pp 958-960 seems to claim that
the increased kinetic energy of a particle struck by a photon is due to the
Compton effect, which I gave in my last note.  I can't figure out what's
wrong with the momentum calculations right at present, though...

						Rick.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 85 14:53:25 pst
Message-Id: <8503022253.AA00235@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ISM780!chris
Subject: Lunar Colony


 I've been wondering about how much mass would be needed to get
a small colony started on the moon. I'm assuming that the colony
would be 4 to 8 people living on the moon for a couple of years.
There would be flights from earth, but they would not (because of
cost) be able to bring each and every item that was needed. What
i suspect they would bring is complicated manufactured items
(like chips, carbon mono-filament, carbide tipped machine tool
bits) that would be too difficult to manufacture on the moon.

 It seems like one of the first orders of business would be
to start some type of farm, because food is high bulk, and people
need a lot of it every day. Water and oxygen would be broken out
of the rocks, and metals smelted using solar mirrors.

 Living arrangements would almost certainly have to be underground
to provide cheap protection against sunlight, radiation, micrometeorites
and big tempreture changes. One housing technique might be to dig a
hole, put in a big ballon, and cover it with foam in place plastic
to provide a rigid shell. This would then be covered with lunar
soil as an insulator.

Here is the list of stuff (by no means comprehensive) that looks
necessary:

a lathe                 Food for ~1 year
plastic monomers        solar mirror pieces (don't have to be very good)
plastic tents           digging equipment (vacuum version of small cat)
water                   fertilizers, seeds, farming tools
electronic repair kit   medical equipment and drugs
explosives              wire, lights, general electrical contractors stuff
air renewer (and spares) pressure suits

This is looking like quite a bit of mass. How do we get it into orbit,
and how do we get it down to the lunar surface?


			chris kostanick
			decvax!vortex!ism780!chris

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 85 16:07:20 pst
Message-Id: <8503030007.AA01731@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: fisher@dvinci.DEC
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Subject: Solar sail energy transfer mechanism

<Go ahead, atomize this line and make my day...>

uwvax!derek asks
>~"how does energy get transferred from the photon to the sail..."

The problem with your explanation is that it does not consider the vector
nature of momentum.  Rather than deal with vector equations, let's consider
a one-dimensional system so I can deal only with + and -.

The photon is plowing along with momentum  +mv (m=mass of photon, v=velocity of
photon).  It smashes into a stationary sail (momentum 0) in a totally inelastic
collision and bounces back, now with momentum -mv.  Since momentum is
conserved, the total {photon, sail} system must still have a total momentum of
+mv.   The momentum difference between the photon after the collision and the
total system before the collision is (-mv)-(+mv) or -2mv.  Thus the solar sail
(the only other component of the system in this simple model) must now picked
up a momentum of +2mv, and thus a velocity of +2mv/M (M is the mass of the
sail). 

Note that if the photon "sticks" to the sail (ignoring kinetic->heat
conversion), we have a much different situation. The total sail/photon system
still has a momentum of +mv, but now, since they are travelling together, the
velocity change of the sail is only mv/(M+m), (slightly) less than half as
much!

Now (wave hands) consider a two or three dimensional system, and you see that
if the photon is absorbed, the sail can only change velocity in the direction
that the photon was moving.  If the photon is reflected, you can "tack" by
tilting the sail and forcing the photon to bounce off at a non-pi angle, thus
generating a velocity change in the sail at an angle. 

Ta da!  Not bad for having not dealt with this stuff (except in sci-fi books)
since freshman physics!

Burns


	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher@{Berkeley | SU-Shasta}

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 85 16:10:47 pst
Message-Id: <8503030010.AA01787@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: Moon chemicals/energy storage


	In order to create massive amounts of heat on the moon, I think that
a working fluid can be obtained (aka sodium, water, air, or whatever is
handy) and use a solar mirror to focus suns energy into a confined zone and
pass the working fluid through it. using smaller "furnaces" to drive sterling
engines to pump the stuff around would make it work pretty well. The only
problem I can forsee is finding enough sodium before the first night fell.
This would be a real drag on the idea.

	I wonder if there is free silicon on the moon (pure enough to smelt)
that can be used to produce solar panels. Also are the base chemicals around
that would be useful for making batteries (lead and H2SO4 type of battery or
lithium, or even better: nickel cadium). There are a lot of problem to
overcome before an operation like this could become scientifically or even
economically possible. Lets start thinking about it.

	Could someone post the chemical breakdown of the rocks brought back
from the moon? I think this would help direct the dicussion and the ideas.

						Peter Barada
						ima!pbear!peterb

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 85 21:51:00 pst
Message-Id: <8503030551.AA04144@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: rochester!sher (David Sher)
Subject: Re:  Re: Light Sails

To you net.physics people this article is a result of a discussion of
light sails and how they work.  The question I am addressing is does
being reflected by a light sail change the wavelength of the reflected
light.  This is a tricky problem because it is not well defined.  
(I am taking this from rememberances of a modern physics class I took
3 years ago so I am not authoritative).   Light only has a wavelength 
relative to an observer. (or a frame I guess).  There was an interesting
problem I was given in the afore mentioned physics class which was
given an observer for which a beam of light with wave length (relative
to the observer) lambda is reflected from a mirror moving with relativistic
velocity v  what is the wave length of the reflected light.  I believe
it is not the same as the original light except when v is a small fraction
of c (whats an epsilon between friends).  Try throwing mirors around and
see for your self :-).  
-David Sher

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 85 21:51:38 pst
Message-Id: <8503030551.AA04154@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: friedman@topaz.ARPA (Gadi Friedman)
Subject: Sen in Space.

I heared today that the Sen. will miss his chance to
go in space.  The mission was canceled due to some 
problem with the cargo.  

                               -Gadi
                              friedman@topaz.(uucp,arpa)

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #102
*******************

05-Mar-85  0350	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #103    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 103

Today's Topics:
			Energy storage on the Moon
			Re: Light Sails with holes
			Re: Light Sail Deployment
			Re: Light Sail Deployment
			    More Launch Delays
				Re: SSTO!
				Re: SSTO!
			   Re: moon station(s)
       Re: Light Sails with holes (size of photon vs gas molecule)
				   oops
	    Solar Sails: Where does the energy come from?    
			     Re: Light Sails
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Mar 85 07:29:35 pst
Message-Id: <8503041529.AA10382@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: josh@topaz.ARPA (J Storrs Hall)
Subject: Energy storage on the Moon

Flywheels.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Mar 85 20:03:51 pst
Message-Id: <8503040403.AA08270@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: azure!philipl (Philip Lantz)
Subject: Re: Light Sails with holes

> If you really want high performance, especially in low Earth orbit, one
> intriguing notion is to take a Drexler aluminum sail and punch it full
> of very tiny (smaller than a wavelength of light) holes.  Holes which are
> significantly smaller than a wavelength of light will not affect the
> reflectivity of the sail, but they will lighten it considerably.  Just
> as interesting, air molecules at orbital altitudes are independent of
> each other and will go through tiny holes just as easily as through big
> ones.  Not only does one get (say) a 75% weight reduction, one also gets
> a 75% air-drag reduction.

Wouldn't holes "significantly smaller than a wavelength of light" also
be significantly smaller than air molecules?  Punching holes to reduce
weight sounds like a good idea, but I'm not convinced it would reduce
the drag any.

Showing my ignorance,
Philip Lantz
tektronix!bronze!philipl

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Mar 85 08:55:42 pst
Message-Id: <8503031655.AA06204@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ames!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Re: Light Sail Deployment

> 	Steering the sail would be difficult, and  I  don't  have
> the  answers to that one.  I would wish someone would pick up the
> idea and bounce it around.
> 
> 					Peter Barada
> 					ima!pbear!peterb

With all this talk about solar sails on the net I thought you might like
to know that the World Space Foundation is actually building one and
expects to fly it.  The have built two prototypes, one full size, and have
had an upper stage donated to them.  They still need a launch - either
shuttle or Ariane - and I don't think they've started on the flight
article.  They main players are experienced people from JPL, they know
what they're doing.

I don't know how far they've got on control, but the last I saw there were
two small rotatable sails on the end on one of the booms for pitch and
roll control.  There is also a movable mass near the center of the sail
for yaw.

If anyone has the address available, why don't you post it?  Most of their
labor is volunteer.  If you want to help, contact Robert Staehle (sp?)  at
JPL in Pasadena, CA.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Mar 85 07:35:21 pst
Message-Id: <8503041535.AA10469@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: petrus!karn
Subject: Re: Light Sail Deployment

The World Space Foundation is indeed a serious group. They have approached
AMSAT, the radio hams who build amateur communications satellites and have
proposed a joint venture in which AMSAT builds the communications hardware
to fly on their sail. They get command, telemetry and tracking facilities,
something that AMSAT can do well, and we (AMSAT) get a slow but free ride
for a transponder into a useful communications orbit, something that AMSAT
is always looking for.

We were all impressed with their technical knowledge of the subject, and
they seem to have a viable organization. A possible joint project is only
in the very preliminary stages at the moment, but one thing that can make
it emerge into reality very fast is for volunteers to step forward and
actually take on part of the design job.  The primary contact person on
the AMSAT side for the project is Dr. John Champa, K8OCL. John recently
moved to Michigan and I don't have his new address handy, but mail to him
can be forwarded via the AMSAT address (PO Box 27, Washington, DC 20044).
Feel free to contact him if you think your interests might lie in the
electronics side of such a project. Here's YOUR opportunity to do
something "up there" besides talk about it idly on net.space!

Regarding photon pressure and spinning toys: AMSAT-Oscar-7, launched in
1974, made practical use of this phenomenon. In those days, amateur
satellites had no propulsion systems or active attitude control systems,
but something had to be done to keep them from tumbling uncontrollably.
The end-over-end motion was easy enough, you just stick a big bar magnet
along the main axis of the spacecraft. Within days after launch the whole
thing aligns itself with the earth's magnetic field and the satellite
turns end-over-end slowly twice per orbit (this is a polar orbit).  The
remaining problem was to control roll about the magnet axis, and for this
task photon pressure was used. The satellite had four antenna elements
bent towards one end, which were fabricated out of ordinary carpenter's
rule (the kind that's yellow or white, with inch markings). One side of
each element was painted white, the other black.  The result was a net
torque from radiation pressure that slowly rolled the spacecraft about its
magnet axis at almost exactly the predicted rate. Very simple, very
effective.

Phil Karn
Asst. VP Engineering, AMSAT

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Mar 85 04:36:54 pst
Message-Id: <8503041236.AA09952@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: brunix!alb (Adam Buchsbaum)
Subject: More Launch Delays

NASA today postponed the launch of the Challenger by three more days,
until 7 March, if order to give technicians more time to troubleshoot one
of the batteries on the TDRS satellite in the cargo bay.  One of its
twenty-four cells will not accept a charge.  The battery is one of three
that supplies power to the satellite when it is out of sunlight.

The new delay has forced a postponement of the next launch of the
Discovery, originally scheduled for 17 March.  The new launch date for
that mission is now 20 March, giving a mere 3-day launch window.  The
window is due to the orbit needed for the Discovery to rendezvous with a
satellite that its crew is scheduled to retrieve.  The next launch
opportunity would come three weeks later.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Mar 85 08:56:38 pst
Message-Id: <8503031656.AA06223@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ames!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Re: SSTO!

> ...And some
> of the folks pushing this method think that $100/lb is a ridiculously
> high cost to orbit and could be beaten easily.
> -- 

It's amazing how cheap any easy things are when they're still on paper (or
in the computer) and you haven't had to make them work yet.  Remember
when the shuttle would bring costs down to $500/lb to LEO?  I think it
runs around $3,000 and up in actuality.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Mar 85 08:55:25 pst
Message-Id: <8503031655.AA06196@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ames!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Re: SSTO!

> From: WOO IL LEE <lee@su-star>
> 
> 	From "Aerospace Americe", Feb. 85, pg.1:
> 
> .......Robert Cooper, director of the Defense Advanced Research Projects
> Agency, says that variable geometry hydrogen-burning supersonic-combustion
> ramjets (SCRAMjets) "using current state-of-the-art technology" could take
> off horizontally and accelerate to Mach 25, using existing Pratt & Whitney
> RL-10 rocket engines for final orbit injection. Motivation for their 
> development, he said, is the need to reduce payload launch costs to $100/lb.

It should be noted, however, that horizontal takeoff results in an orbiter
with wings that are twice as heavy and a body half again as heavy as
vertical takeoff.  This data is in the same issue but a different article.
The effect is caused by aerodynamic loads generated during pullup.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Mar 85 08:54:47 pst
Message-Id: <8503031654.AA06181@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ames!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Re: moon station(s)

> This is the first time I've posted something to the net, but I'm
> just wondering if anyone has had any qualms about the US or
> the USSR, or anyone, setting up permanent bases on the moon, or
> doing the kinds of activity that has been mentioned frequently,
> such as mining.  It seems to me that an extensive discussion is
> in order before anyone does this.
> 
> The reason for this is that the moon has no weather and whatever
> you do stays around essentially forever.  Similarly, whatever
> happened in the past that is recorded geologically (lunalogically?)
> there is extremely valuable scientifically.  This kind of
> information should not be thrown away thoughtlessly (or perhaps
> at all).

I doubt that it is necessary to reserve the entire Moon for scientific
purposes, after all, there are other important things in life.  The
Planetary Society has proposed that portions of the Moon and the planets
be set aside as wilderness preserves - much as we have done in this
country - and that this be done before people have much time and
effort invested in mining and the like.  This seems to be a sensible
approach.  The next step is to choose the specific areas that should
be preserved ....  Nominations?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Mar 85 15:08:02 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8503042308.AA19056@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: azure!philipl@Berkeley, space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: Light Sails with holes (size of photon vs gas molecule)

	Light travels at 3E8m/s = c.  The length of a wavelength of light is
therefore c / f, where f is the frequency.  Therefore light radiates in
*all* wavelengths...

	But to give you an idea, 3000 angstroms is well into the UV, and the
earth's atmosphere is opaque to photons of length PW - 3000 A, where PW is
the Planck-Wheeler length.  Anyway, the highest frequency photon we see is
about 15 GHz, or in the microwave band -- very high frequency light indeed.

	A KMol of an ideal gas occupies a volume of 22.4 m^3 at STP.  Hence,
a molecule of that ideal gas occupies a volume of 3.7x10^-26 m^3.   Taking
the cube root, we arrive at a very rough length estimate:

	3.3*10^-9 metres

or 33 angstroms.

	Hence, it is true that for most wavelengths of light, and all
wavelengths that the sun puts out (the lowest number I can find for the
bottom -- or top -- end of solar radiation is 250 angstroms).


					Rick.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Mar 85 18:01:18 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8503050201.AA23143@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: space-enthusiasts@mit-mc
Subject: oops

	Sorry, the last line of my message should have read:

"in short, it is true that a gas molecule at STP is longer than
the wavelength of any solar radiation, and hence holes in light sales will
reduce drag without affecting thrust, if the holes have diameter less than
250 Angstroms."

					Rick.

------------------------------

Date: 04 Mar 85  1718 PST
From: Ted Anderson <OTA@S1-A.ARPA>
Subject: Solar Sails: Where does the energy come from?    
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

Several people have noted that the energy gained by a solar sail happens
in the form of red shifting the reflected light.  As most people probably
know a rocket is most efficient when it is operating speed is close to its
exhaust speed.  You can get a feel for this by noting that when the
rocket's speed is the same as its exhaust the exhaust particles aren't
moving in the initial frame of reference.  This means they have no kinetic
energy in the rest frame either.  In other words, the efficiency argument
can be stated by saying that any kinetic energy left in the exhaust in the
rest frame is wasted.  The implication of this for light sails is that at
low velocities they are abysmally inefficient (though of course they have
certain clear advantages, such as low fuel consumption), but at
substantial fractions of the speed of light they are wonderful.  Actually
they lose some attraction a very close to the speed of light since if the
light comes from a stationary source it is seriously red shifted by the
time it reaches the sail in the first place.

This brings to mind another idea I saw a few days ago.  I was reading the
new Pournelle collection called "Far Frontiers" which has an article by
Robert Forward which reviews interstellar propulsion technologies.  In
there he suggests making a interstellar probe out of a microwave sail.
Similar to the idea of poking 1000 Ang. holes in an aluminum visible light
sail to save weight, with a microwave sail you only need a 1 cm wire mesh.
Forward's suggested design called for a 10GW microwave beam, a 16 gram
sail, a 4 gram distributed processing element, 115 g acceleration, and a
terminal velocity of 20% c.  This gives an acceleration time of 3 days and
a distance during acceleration of only 50 AU which greatly simplifies the
beam divergence problem.  Since 10GW is about the power level commonly
suggested for Solar Power Satellites Forward suggested that launching
these might be a good use for an SPS during initial checkout.  A
wonderfully cheap and easy way the explore our local neighborhood.

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 5 Mar 85 03:10 EST
From:  Paul Schauble <Schauble@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>
Subject:  Re: Light Sails
To:  Space@MIT-MC.ARPA, rochester!nemo@HARVARD.ARPA
Message-ID:  <850305081000.909769@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>

rochester!nemo writes:

> There are these little globes with vacuum and a paddle/pivot mechanism
> inside which work on this principle.  The four paddles are arranged so
> that the intersection of the two planes is the axis of rotation of the
> pivot.  Each paddle has a black side and a silver side with radial
> symmetry.  Placed in light, the paddle(s) on one side of the pivot
> will reflect the light, the one(s) on the other will absorb the light.
> The absorbing surface gets only the inelastic momentum change, or mv,
> while the reflecting surface gets the 2mv momentum change.  This
> creates a torque on the paddle structure, and the little bugger
> rotates.  Available at novelty stores near you!  
> Nemo
                                                            

This says that the beast should rotate witht he white (reflective) side
retreating. Take a close look at one. They rotate in the other
direction!
Now, would anyone care to provide an explanation??

          Paul

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #103
*******************

06-Mar-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #104    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 104

Today's Topics:
	       Solar sails - Who is building them - address
			Re: Light Sails with holes
			     Re: Lunar Colony
			     Re: Lunar Colony
		   Re: Momentum transfer in light sails
		     Star Data Posted to Net.sources
			   Re: photon momentum
			   Re:  Re: Light Sails
			   Lunar rock chemistry
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 5 Mar 1985 0657 PST
From: Richard B. August <AUGUST@JPL-VLSI.ARPA>
Subject: Solar sails - Who is building them - address
To: space-network-source@mit-mc
Reply-To: AUGUST@JPL-VLSI.ARPA

>To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
>From: ames!al (Al Globus)
>Subject: Re: Light Sail Deployment

>With  all  this talk about solar sails on the net I  thought  you 
>might  like  to know that the World Space Foundation is  actually 
>building  one  and  expects  to fly  it.  The  main  players  are 
>experienced   people   from   JPL,   they  know   what   they're 
>doing. ...

>If anyone has the address available, why don't you post it?  Most 
>of their labor is volunteer.  If you want to help, contact Robert 
>Staehle (sp?)  at JPL in Pasadena, CA.


     The address for corespondence with Robert L. Staehle is:

          Robert L. Staehle
          Jet Propulsion Laboratory
          California Institute of Technology
          4800 Oak Grove Drive
          Pasadena, California 91109
          M/S 158-224

     Phone is:

     JPL main: (818)354-4321
     Staehle:  (818)354-6524
               (818)354-2280
------

------------------------------

Date: Tuesday,  5 Mar 1985 12:19-EST
From: jrv@Mitre-Bedford
To: axure!philipl@Mitre-Bedford
Cc: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: Light Sails with holes

>> If you really want high performance, especially in low Earth orbit, one
>> intriguing notion is to take a Drexler aluminum sail and punch it full
>> of very tiny (smaller than a wavelength of light) holes.

> Wouldn't holes "significantly smaller than a wavelength of light" also
> be significantly smaller than air molecules?

Most of the energy in sunlight is at visible wavelengths (roughly 6000 to
8000 angstroms), while all atoms are about 1 angstrom in diameter.  (Atoms
of high atomic number have more electrons, but also have higher charges on
their nuclei.)  Air molecules are a few times larger than atoms. Therefore,
a sail with holes a few hundred angstroms across would be "solid" for the
light, but would let the air pass.  However, the remaining metal would have
to be thick enough to be a good conductor, so the photons get reflected
rather than just absorbed (else we lose a factor of two in thrust) or even
*partially* absorbed (losing even more thrust).  I believe this means we
need several "skin depths" of metal.  Does anyone care to calculate what
the skin depth of a 8000 angstrom photon is in aluminum?
				- Jim Van Zandt

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 85 20:20:04 pst
Message-Id: <8503060420.AA18331@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: amdahl!ems (ems)
Subject: Re: Lunar Colony

> 
>  It seems like one of the first orders of business would be
> to start some type of farm, because food is high bulk, and people
> need a lot of it every day. Water and oxygen would be broken out
> of the rocks, and metals smelted using solar mirrors.
> 
> a lathe                 Food for ~1 year
> plastic monomers        solar mirror pieces (don't have to be very good)
> plastic tents           digging equipment (vacuum version of small cat)
> water                   fertilizers, seeds, farming tools
> electronic repair kit   medical equipment and drugs
> explosives              wire, lights, general electrical contractors stuff
> air renewer (and spares) pressure suits
> 

The first order of business is housing, second is air, third is water,
fourth is food.  Somewhat in parallel with these comes the need for
various tools.  As a decendant of blacksmiths I have learned the
traditions of tool making.  Forget draging the farmtools and small hand
tools up with you (after the first batch - and even they are optional).  A
good smith given reasonable ore and smelting facilities can make an
astounding number of tools. Drill bits are among the easier things to
make.  A lathe would be hard, but given time ...  (you see, first you make
the anvil, hammer and tongs, then the files, bits, punches and chisles.
Next come the pliers...)

(I can see it now:  'Neath the spreading antennae tree,
                          the village smithy ... '
Image of burly man sweating in space suite, pull back to show
craters and solar forge...)

Also, explosives can be made from plant and animal products.  Look into
the technology of back-to-the-earth homesteads and survivalists for some
creative solutions.  Mostly what you need is a way to make water, air, and
soil (the hard part.  there is a lot of stuff in soil.)  rand keep it from
going away while you let controlled amounts of sunlight in.  The rest
depends on the kind of lifestyle you want.  It could range from early
agricultural (add seeds) on up to hightech (add hightech list of medicines
and electronics).

E. Michael Smith  ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems

Computo ergo sum

The opinions expressed by me are not representative of those of any
other person - natural, unnatural, or fictional - and only marginally
reflect my opinions as strained by the language.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 85 20:28:27 pst
Message-Id: <8503060428.AA18438@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: Lunar Colony

	One Idea I think somebody must have kicked around is to design a
rocket ship to land in as big a piece as possible(aka most mass) and then
canniblize it to make your tools and get your raw sources.

	If one took time when designing this rocket, one could also design
parts of tooling machinery INTO the rocket, so when you dismantle the
rocket, voila! You have your parts to build a CAT bulldozer, lathe, etc.

	Still it is a lot of mass to cart around, but If you're gonna do it,
go all the way, and then rip up your bridge behind you to build the one in
front of you....

					Peter Barada
					ima!pbear!peterb

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 85 20:30:35 pst
Message-Id: <8503060430.AA18479@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ames!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Re: Momentum transfer in light sails

>      After reading Rick McGeers' description of momentum transfer between
> photons and a light sail, it seems to me that all momentum imparted to the
> sail must be radial to the sun.  Is there any way to impart momentum to the 
> sail in a tangential direction?

Yes.  The acceleration is normal to the plane of the sail.  Draw the
vectors in 2D in a piece of paper with the photon comming in at an
angle.  Take the vector sums and maintain conservation of momentum in
all directions and you'll see what I mean.   I wish I could put my
Mac drawings on this thing.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 85 20:35:06 pst
Message-Id: <8503060435.AA18521@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ssc-vax!bruce (Bruce Stock)
Subject: Star Data Posted to Net.sources

A reduced version of the Yale Catalog of Bright Stars has been posted to
net.sources.  The posting consists of 9 data files containing information
on about 9000 stars.  Data consists of RA (2000), DEC (2000), MAG, COLOR,
and PM.  There is also a description file with data format and an example
extraction program which plots a starmap on a Z-100 monochrome screen in
intensity levels.  Enjoy.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 85 20:05:36 pst
Message-Id: <8503060405.AA18152@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ihlpa!lew (Lew Mammel, Jr.)
Subject: Re: photon momentum

The discussion of photon momentum in relation to the radiometer reminds
me of a PSSC (Physical Sciences Studies Committee) film that I saw in
high school. This one featured Gerald? Zacharias of MIT. He showed a
radiometer spinning and hypothesized that it was the difference in
photon momentum transfer that was driving it. He then did a series of
demonstrations with a toy gun, shooting plastic bullets against suspended
steel plates, the conclusion of which was that elastic collisions
transfered twice the momentum of perfectly inelastic collisions.

He then leaned over the radiometer and said, "... so it should spin
this way." , pointing his finger in the opposite direction of the actual
spin. After a pause he looked up at the camera and deadpanned, "Clearly
this is the wrong explanation."

After giving the correct explanation, he demonstrated actual photon
momentum transfer with an intense beam directed against a bit of
metal foil suspended in a high vacuum.

I'd have to say this film achieved its point seeing that I remember
it so well after 20 years!

As subtle an effect as it is, the photon momentum accounts for almost
10% of the pressure at the sun's center - a radiation pressure capable
of exploding the earth! (warning - this is my calculation)

	Lew Mammel, Jr. ihnp4!ihlpa!lew

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 85 20:00:55 pst
Message-Id: <8503060400.AA18104@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: petrus!karn
Subject: Re:  Re: Light Sails

It would seem to me that photons reflected off a sail would indeed appear
to be shifted in wavelength to an observer watching both the outgoing solar
radiation and the reflected radiation. This would be due to the doppler
shift caused by the relative motion of the sail with respect to the sun.
The effect is equivalent to that which makes a police radar function.
Energy is still conserved.

Phil

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 85 20:58:12 pst
Message-Id: <8503060458.AA18786@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: umd5!don
Subject: Lunar rock chemistry

Is it not true that if one passes an electric current through molten lunar
rock, one will get O2 in quantity ? I seem to remember reading this one
place or another .. If this is true then the Lunar Explorers will need not
carry a ton of atmosphere along with them to the moon !!

-Chris Sylvain <don@umd5.ARPA>

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #104
*******************

07-Mar-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #105    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 105

Today's Topics:
			      Launch Windows
				Re: SSTO!
			    Re: Launch Windows
			Re: Light Sails with holes
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 85 04:14:02 pst
Message-Id: <8503061214.AA19762@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: tellab2!thoth (Marcus Hall)
Subject: Launch Windows

On some launches which only deployed satellites, I still hear about
"launch windows".  On a mission that must rendezvous with something
already in orbit, there is an obvious launch window.  There are also
time limits associated with sitting on the pad that I understand, but I
sometimes hear about a "launch window" for launching a satellite that is
going into geo-synchronous orbit.  This doesn't make sense to me, since
it seems that launching it an hour later would only result in it
reaching its orbit an hour later.

Could somebody please enlighten me.

Thank you.

marcus hall
..!ihnp4!tellab1!tellab2!thoth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 85 04:15:54 pst
Message-Id: <8503061215.AA19799@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: SSTO!

> > ...And some
> > of the folks pushing this method think that $100/lb is a ridiculously
> > high cost to orbit and could be beaten easily.
> 
> It's amazing how cheap any easy things are when they're still on paper (or
> in the computer) and you haven't had to make them work yet.  Remember
> when the shuttle would bring costs down to $500/lb to LEO?  I think it
> runs around $3,000 and up in actuality.

Yup.  But remember that the under-$100/lb cost for the scramjet shuttle
is also a paper number, and is thus fair game for comparison.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 85 05:44:48 pst
Message-Id: <8503061344.AA19990@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: pyramid!zeek (Jim Zeek)
Subject: Re: Launch Windows


Shuttle launches have windows because if their launching a geo-stationary
satelite which orbits over the same spot over earth the have to enter orbit 
at the right spot over earth.
					jim zeek @ pyramid technology
					(pyramid!zeek)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 85 11:56:31 pst
Message-Id: <8503061956.AA02190@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Light Sails with holes

> Wouldn't holes "significantly smaller than a wavelength of light" also
> be significantly smaller than air molecules?  Punching holes to reduce
> weight sounds like a good idea, but I'm not convinced it would reduce
> the drag any.

Air molecules are several orders of magnitude smaller than the wavelength
of visible light, so it does indeed work.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #105
*******************

08-Mar-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #106    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 106

Today's Topics:
			      Lunar colonies
			  re: re: launch windows
			      Launch Windows
			   Light sail momentum
			    Re: Launch Windows
		    Re: Moon chemicals/energy storage
		  reflection of photons from a lightsail
			      Launch Windows
			       nearby stars
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 1985 09:07:07-EST
From: rachiele@NADC
To: space-enthusiasts@mit-mc
Subject: Lunar colonies

It seems to me that the general game plan should be to plan many landings,
weeks apart.  Possible the second a week after the first, then every 2 weeks
for a while.  This would allow for rotation of personnel as well as delivery
of oxygen etc.
    Possibly the first landing could be two or more one-way ships to be
cannabilized, the next 10 or so landings would make return trips.

             Jim Rachiele

------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 1985 09:27:50-EST
From: rachiele@NADC
To: space-enthusiasts@mit-mc
Subject: re: re: launch windows

Wait a minute.  That explains why the satalite needs a launch window, not
the shuttle itself.  The shuttle is in LEO, which is not Geo-sync.  So the
satalite could be launched from any point, provided the shuttle could acheive
the correct orbit, right?  Maybe the calculations would be too difficult to
do on the fly, and have to be done long beforehand?
         Jim Rachiele

------------------------------

Date:       Thu, 7 Mar 85 12:03:57 CST
From: Carl Rosene <animal@rice.ARPA>
Subject:    Launch Windows
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Cc: tellab2!thoth@rice.ARPA (marcus hall)
Message-Id: <479066637.animal@Dione.ARPA>

Launch windows for satellite missions come from at least a couple of things:

 1) Accompanying experiments or observations (especially astronomical
    observations or tracking) might have requirements for the orbit. (What
    portion of the sky is visible during the night etc.)

and

 2) Satellite deployments typically will have lighting requirements (So that
   you can you are doing). These lighting requirements are met by seeing
   that the shuttle's "day" (or "night") sky is over the right portion of
   the earth. 

The above considerations lead you to launch windows.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Mar 85 15:37:05 pst
Message-Id: <8503072337.AA09170@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: augeri@regina.DEC
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Subject: Light sail momentum

There has been several attempts to derive the momentum imparted to a light
sail as a result of impinging photons.  I have not yet seen the correct
derivation, so here is my contribution.

From Einstein's work we know that the energy of the photon is given by:

  E = hf = hc/l            (1)	where E = energy, h = Planck's constant,
                                f = frequency, l = wavelength (I use l for
                                lambda), c = speed of light, and f = c/l

From this we can derive the formula for the momentum of the photon as:

  p[p] = E/c = hf/c = h/l  (2)  where p[p] is the momentum of a photon and
                                the other variables are the same as above

Expressing that momentum must be conserved we get:

  momentum before collision = momentum after collision

If we assume that the initial momentum of the sail is 0, then for the
system we are discussing we have:

  photon momentum before collision = photon momentum after collision
                                       + sail momentum after collision

Just rearranging this equation we get:

  sail momentum after collision = photon momentum before collision
                                    - photon momentum after collision

Using some variables to describe this equation we get:

  p[s,a] = p[p,b] - p[p,a]  (3)  where the bracketed quantities represent
                                 the momentum of the sail after the
                                 collision, p[s,a], etc

Substituting the relation shown in equation 2 into equation 3 we get:

  p[s,a] = h/l - h/l'       (4)  where l is the photon wavelength before the
                                 collision and l' is the photon wavelength
                                 after the collision

Compton's effect is given (without proof) as:

  dl = l' - l                (5a)  where dl is the change in wavelength, h
     = (h/(mc))(1 - cos(z))  (5b)  and c are as above, m is the rest mass of
                                   the sail, and z is the angle of incidence
                                   of the photon (I use parentheses liberally
                                   to keep the proper precedence)

Assuming that the angle of incidence of the photon is perpendicular to the
sail surface (this just simplifies the formula, since the cos(90) = 0) we
get:

  dl = h/(mc)               (6)

Rearranging equation 5a we get:

  l' = l + dl               (7)

Note that we see from equations 6 and 7 that the wavelength of the photon
after the collision (l') is longer than the wavelength before the collision
(l), therefore, the reflected radiation is red-shifted.

Substituting equation 7 into equation 4 we get:

  p[s,a] = h/l - h/(l + dl)  (8)

Rearranging equation 8 (left as an exercise) we get:

  p[s,a] = (h/l)(dl/(l + dl))  (9)

Substituting for dl from equation 6 into equation 9, we get for photons
hitting the sail at an angle of 90 degrees:

  p[s,a] = (h/l)(h/(mc))/(l + h/(mc))  (10)

The parentheses in equation 10 obscure the result (oh, for a universal
terminal that could display equations the way they should be!).  Anyway,
by rearranging equation 10 (again, left as an exercise), we get what I
consider to be a more useful form of the equation:

  p[s,a] = (h/l)/(mc/(h/l) + 1)  (11)

There are many ways that equation 11 can be written, but the reason that I
think this form of the equation is more useful is that the values we know
are the momentum of the incident photons and the mass of the light sail,
and what we want to know is expressed directly in terms of those values.
Therefore, recalling that the momentum of the photon before the collision
is p[p,b] = h/l (see equations 3 and 4), we get for photons hitting the
sail at an angle of 90 degrees:

  p[s,a] = p[p,b]/(mc/p[p,b] + 1)  (12)

Finally, for any angle z we get:

  p[s,a] = p[p,b]/(mc/(p[p,b](1 - cos(z))) + 1)  (13)

I hope that this clears up the matter.

	Mike Augeri (DEC, Maynard Mass)

	UUCP: decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-regina!augeri
	ARPA: augeri%regina.dec@decwrl.arpa

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Mar 85 15:44:22 pst
Message-Id: <8503072344.AA09289@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Launch Windows

I'm not an expert on this, but there are at least two reasons why there
are definite launch windows for Clarke ("geostationary") orbit.

First, remember that a satellite in that orbit remains over essentially
the same spot on the equator.  This means that you are not only trying
to get the satellite into that orbit, it has to be in the right *place*
in that orbit.  There are further complications because most of the
launch sites are not on the equator, which means that plane changes as
well as orbital shape changes are needed.

Second, most current satellites do not deploy most of their solar panels
until they are in the final orbit, because the support structures are
not strong enough to survive orbital maneuvering.  This means that the
satellites are very short of power while in transit, and the angle of
the sun with respect to the solar cells is significant.  (Satellites are
often not free to turn to get the best angle, due to things like spin
stabilization and the directions rocket motors point.)  Passing through
the Earth's shadow can also be a problem for a power-starved satellite.

For these (and probably other) reasons, satellite launches most definitely
do have time constraints as well as position constraints.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Mar 85 15:44:59 pst
Message-Id: <8503072344.AA09300@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Moon chemicals/energy storage

> 	I wonder if there is free silicon on the moon (pure enough to smelt)
> that can be used to produce solar panels.

Solar panels need semiconductor-grade silicon, which you aren't going to
find in nature anywhere.  On the other hand, it's not enormously hard
to make if you have the right equipment, and there are plenty of
silicate rocks on the moon.

> Also are the base chemicals around
> that would be useful for making batteries (lead and H2SO4 type of battery or
> lithium, or even better: nickel cadium).

Lead, nickel, cadmium, maybe.  The moon is badly short of hydrogen, and
probably sulfur as well.  Lithium is a rare metal anywhere, for quite
fundamental reasons.

Some other things the moon is short of are nitrogen and chlorine, by
the way.  Both of them rather important to life.

One possibility, though, is that there may be frozen volatiles (water,
etc.) in some of the lunar polar craters which contain areas that are
permanently in shadow.  A lunar polar orbiter with remote-sensing gear
is what we need to settle this.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Mar 85 23:41:31 pst
Message-Id: <8503080741.AA10825@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ihlpa!lew (Lew Mammel, Jr.)
Subject: reflection of photons from a lightsail

I just spent an inordinate amount of time digging through my "archive"
( a box ) of netnews hardcopy and finally found my article of Oct 1983
on the relativistic lightsail problem. Quoting myself:

We can calculate the momentum of the reflected photons in the following
way. First, calculate the momentum of the incident photons in the sail
frame. Second, reverse the sign of the momentum (reflection from sail which
is stationary in this frame.) Third, calculate the momentum of the reflected
photons in the rest frame. If p is the initial momentum, these steps yield:

	1) gamma*(1-beta)*p		/* redshift */
	2) -gamma*(1-beta)*p		/* reflect  */
	3) -gamma^2*(1-beta)^2*p	/* red shift again */

... this gives delta(v) = 2*p/(1+beta)

[end of quote]

I went on to evaluate the equation of motion. I found that the time scale
of the problem was given by

	T = (m*c^2) / (2*I * p*c)

	m = mass of ship
	p = momentum of photon
	I = photons per second striking sail

... that is, the rest energy of the ship divided by twice the impinging
power. A beam of 1 megawatt/meter2 and a sail of 1 gram/meter2 gives
T = 1e8 sec, or about 3 years. My solution gave this table of times
required to reach the given speeds:

	v/c	t/T

	.5	1.065
	.9	15.316
	.95	43.048
	.99	474.26
	.999	14917.6

	Lew Mammel, Jr. ihnp4!ihlpa!lew

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Mar 85 23:49:35 pst
Message-Id: <8503080749.AA10917@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: fisher@dvinci.DEC
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Subject: Launch Windows

From:	DVINCI::FISHER        7-MAR-1985 13:42
To:	FISHER
Subj:	net.columbia


> ...why are there launch windows for geosync satellites?

>> ...they have to be at the right place at the right time to end up
>> in the right place over the earth

Well, actually there is more to it.  If you end up in the wrong place in
geosync orbit, it is pretty cheap to move a satellite, as long as you are
not in a real big hurry.  You just give it a push and let it drift.

In general the OPENING of the launch window is usually defined by when
the AOA (Abort Once Around) landing site (usually Edwards AFB) will have
enough light.  Thus try not to launch earlier than one orbit-time before
sunrise at EAFB.

Another important consideration is that satellites are typically designed
for the conditions they will encounter during their operational life, and
not a whole lot more.  Ex:  In operation, many geosync sats spin, and are
in sunlight MOST of the time.  Thus they are not designed to tolerate
darkness very often, and they are not designed to tolerate direct sunlight
when they are not rotating.   The launch timing is critical (I think typically
the window closeing is based on) the sun angles on the satellite while it
is climbing to geosync altitude.

Aside:  I have always been amazed at how fussy and specialized space vehicles
are.  And you wonder why it costs $millions to keep a space vehicle like
Voyager going once it is up there?  Someone has to keep monitering the critter
to make sure it does not exceed some weird design limitation!

Burns



	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA




Posted:	Thu 7-Mar-1985 13:46 Eastern Standard Time
To:	rhea::decwrl::"net.columbia"

------------------------------

From: <bang!crash!bwebster@Nosc>
Message-Id: <8503081125.AA29444@cod.ARPA>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 85 09:15:07 PST
To: bang!space@mit-mc
Subject: nearby stars

I've been reading INFO-SPACE for several months now, and I'm not sure if
you folks can help, but I'm getting desperate. Here's the story:

I'm a contributing editor for BYTE Magazine.  During the past few months,
I've written a 3-D star map program for the Macintosh. It shows Sol and
nearby stars as a cluster viewed from some imaginary point outside.  You
can reset the origin, view along different axes, scale the display, and
filter out stars based on class, count (single/binary/trinary), and distance
from the origin.  I got my data base from an old SF role-playing game, 
UNIVERSE (from the now-defunct SPI), which has a nice map of all the star
within ~30 ly. of Sol.  All well and fine.

BYTE wants me to write this program up as an article for the July ("Computers
and Space") issue.  That's fine, but it causes a few problems.  Most users
are going to want to have a star list that uses RA/DEC/PAR; the UNIVERSE map
has everything converted to a Cartesian grid with 1 unit = 1 ly.  No problem;
the changes to the program take an hour or two.  Now I just need to run to
a local university library and get a list of nearby stars.

Problem:  most references only list the nearest 25 stars, and most of those
are based on van de Kamp's 1953 list (stars w/in 5 parsecs).  I *do* find
Allen's "Astrophysical Quantities" (3rd ed., 1973), which does have the 100
nearest stars; however, the UNIVERSE map has nearly double that number, and
the program doesn't look nearly as impressive with the smaller list.  Visits
to two universities (UCSD, SDSU), both to their libraries and their astronomy
departments, yield nothing more except a few passing reference to the "Catalog
of Nearby Stars".  In the meantime, the first deadline for my article has come
and gone, and the managing editor is wondering where my article is.

Request:  can any of you out there get me a list of the 200 or so (the more
the better!) stars nearest Sol?  For each system, I need the name, right
ascension, declination, and parallax, and the class/subclass/size (all I
really care about is dwarf/nodwarf) of the components.  For example:
`
NamRA:	HH  MM	D MM   PAR	A	B	C
Sirius			 6  43  -16 39   377	A1	dA5
BD +50			10   8	      49 42   219	K7
36 Ophiuchi		17  1-26 32   184	K1	K1	K5

and so on.  The list does *not* have to be sorted by distance; my program
handles that.  The "cleaner" and more up-to-date your list, the better.  I
noticed discrepancies between the different lists I looked at; I would like
(as much as possible) to avoid letters saying, "You fool!  Don't you know
that Sirius is closer than UV Ceti?"  

If the list has more data (i.e., if you're sending an existing file or even
some xeroxed pages), no problem.  The key word is SPEED; I needed this last
week.  Not only will the person or persons providing such a list earn my
undying gratitude, but they will also be publicly thanked in the BYTE article
and anywhere else I can fit it in.  

The absolute best way to send it would be to my node address:  
			bang!crash!bwebster@nosc
			{ihnp4, sdcsvax!bang}!crash!bwebster

Other addresses:
	CompuServe:	75166,1717
	M:	138-5892
	Fido:		Node #87 (619-286-7838, 300/1200 baud) (my own node)
	USPS:		6215 Thorn St, San Diego, CA  92115

As mentioned above, I have my own bulletin board (Fido #87).  If you want to
call it directly and download, please do.  If you want to save yourself
phone charges, call me [voice] at (619) 286-7576, and give me instructiongs
on how to call *you*.

Many thanks to all; I know this is a large message and isn't adding much to
the general discussion (though it perhaps beats out electric guitars in a
vacuum and possibly even relativistic ashes).  Hope to hear from some of you
soon.
						..bruce..
					Bruce Webster/BYTE Magazine
					bang!crash!bwebster@nosc
					{ihnp4, sdcsvax!bang}!crash!bwebster

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #106
*******************

09-Mar-85  0414	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #107    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 107

Today's Topics:
		Re: reflection of photons from a lightsail
			    Re: Launch Windows
			    Re: Launch Windows
		Re: reflection of photons from a lightsail
		      IEEE Book on the Space Station
			    Re: Launch Windows
		       Challenger Missions Scrubbed
			    Re: Launch Windows
			     sail with holes
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 85 09:06:15 pst
Message-Id: <8503081706.AA00540@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: talcott!gjk (Greg Kuperberg)
Subject: Re: reflection of photons from a lightsail

It is indeed the case that when light bounces off of a moving mirror/light
sail it red shifts.  This can be interpreted as follows:  Because the light
accelerates the craft with a light sail, it transfers some of its energy to
the ship.  The red shift is precisely this loss of energy.  And finally,
photons, shmotons---it works just as well with Maxwell's equations.  In
fact, special relativity predates photons by a decade or two.
---
			Greg Kuperberg
		     harvard!talcott!gjk

"2*x^5-10*x+5=0 is not solvable by radicals." -Evariste Galois.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 85 09:15:55 pst
Message-Id: <8503081715.AA00660@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: Launch Windows

	Its not that they have to be at a particular spot to launch a
geo-synchronous satellite. They could launch any time and still get to that
spot. Rather it is that during the time of the launch window the satellite
would have a clear path through the many thousands of objects on its way to
geosynchronous orbit.

					Peter Barada
					ima!pbear!peterb

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 85 09:48:11 pst
Message-Id: <8503081748.AA00822@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!kcarroll (Kieran A. Carroll)
Subject: Re: Launch Windows

   Henry Spencer mentions that most spinning satellites are not free
to orient themselves in the best possible position for receiving
solar power through their panels of solar cells while in transfer
orbit; this leads to a desire to keep low-earth-to-geosynchronous
transfer times as short as possible, so as not to run down the
batteries on the spacecraft before geosynchronous orbit is 
achieved (at which time, all the solar panels can be deployed,
and power ceases to be a constraint).  Quite true. In case anybody's
interested, here's one of the reasons that spacecraft orientation
is constrained during the transfer orbit:
   During transfer, the vehicle must be able to sense it's attitude
(ie. its orientation with respect to some inertial reference frame),
so that, when it reaches apogee, it'll know in which direction to point
its apogee kick motor, to circularize its orbit.  The most common
way to perform this attitude sensing, for a rotating spacecraft,
is with sun-sensors and earth-sensors.  These sensors have a limited
field of view, and so must be pointed roughly in the direction of the
earth or the sun (whichever is applicable) to start with;
after that, provided nothing disastrous happens, they'll stay
locked on their target.  Also, one has to be careful not to allow
an earth sensor to face the sun (or the moon, for that matter),
or else it might get confused, and the satellite might lose its
attitude reference.  These requirements translate into a set of
constraints as to which direction the satellite's spin axis may point;
generally, pointing perpendicularly to the line joining the satellite
with the sun is not the best orientation.  Thus, the solar cells
on the sides of the spacecraft don't face directly towards the sun,
and power-collection is restricted.  For some missions, the
spinning solar cells don't even collect enough power to make up
for the housekeeping power drain during transfer orbit; the
extra power is drained from batteries on board the satellite (fully
charged at launch).  The satellite must reach geosynchronous orbit,
stop spinning and deploy the rest of its solar cells before the 
batteries run down.  This places a constraint on the amount
of time the satellite can spend in transfer orbit.
   Another problem is maintaining an acceptable temperature range in the
satellite during transfer orbit, but I won't go into that right
now...

   There! My spacecraft design class taught me something, after all!
-- 
     Kieran A. Carroll @ U of Toronto Aerospace Institute
     {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!kcarroll

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 85 10:45:57 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8503081845.AA18442@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: talcott!gjk@harvard.ARPA, space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: reflection of photons from a lightsail

> In fact, special relativity predates photons by a decade or two.

Wrongo.  Special relativity and photons (and also, incidentally, a
theoretical explanation of Brownian motion which was generally considered
to be the clinching argument for the atomic theory) were all introduced by
Einstein in the *same issue of the same journal* in his Miracle Year, 1905.

							Rick.

------------------------------

Date:  8 Mar 1985 13:17:56 EST (Friday)
From: Charles Howell <m15434@mitre>
Subject: IEEE Book on the Space Station
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Cc: howell at mitre

(Quoting from the Washington / Northern VA Scanner,  the  monthly
publication of the local IEEE...)

     "IEEE has announced the publication of "The  Space  Station:
An  Idea whose Time Has Come".  The book is edited by Theodore R.
Simpson, Project-leader at the think-tank ANSER.  During 1981  he
served as an IEEE Congressional Fellow on the Staff of the Senate
Subcommittee on Science, Technology, and Space.

     Through his close association with the  space  program,  Mr.
Simpson  has  assembled  the attitudes and opinions of a group of
space policy leaders from government, industry, and academia  who
were  directly  involved  in  the  decision  to  build  the space
station, and  who  are  currently  engaged  in  its  development.
Authors  include  President  Ronald  Reagan;  U.S. Senator Howell
Heflin, ranking Democrat on the Senate Subcommittee  on  Science,
Technology,  and  Space;  Apollo  17  Astronaut  and  former U.S.
Senator Harrison H. Schmidt; James Beggs, head of NASA; Dr.  John
H. Gibbons, director of OTA, and many others.

     [...] Organized  into  five  parts,  it  first  reviews  the
history  of  U.S. and Soviet manned space flight.  An examination
of the political decision to build  the  space  station  follows.
The  third  section of "The Space Station" describes the possible
and probable designs, uses, and impacts of the space station. And
finally,   the   long   term   potential  of  permanently  manned
exploration  of  the  solar  system  is  discussed,  from   space
industrialization to eventual space colonization.

     The book is priced at $17.95 for IEEE members and $19.95 for
nonmembers,  and  can  be  ordered postpaid from the IEEE Service
Center, 445 Hoes Lane, Piscataway,  NJ  08854.  A  $2.00  billing
charge is added to all non-prepaid orders."

I have ordered it, but I don't know anything about  the  quality.
Has  anyone  out  there read this?  What did you think? (I should
have sent this message  off  BEFORE  shelling  out  $17.95...  oh
well.)

Chuck Howell

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 85 15:35:48 pst
From: David Smith <dsmith%hplabs.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
Message-Id: <8503082335.AA19352@HP-MARS>
To: space%mit-mc@csnet-relay.arpa
Subject: Re: Launch Windows
Source-Info:  From (or Sender) name not authenticated.

Another consideration:  If the satellite gets put up at the
wrong longitude, it takes a while to slew it around.  So it
is best to put it up at the right longitude if possible.  That
means the transfer orbit needs to have its apogee at the
correct longitude, over the equator.  This in turn means that
the boost into the transfer orbit must occur 180 degrees from
the desired longitude, while crossing the equator.  So if the
shuttle gets off the pad late, it may need to delay release
of the satellite for nearly an extra day.

		David Smith
		HP Labs
		ucbvax!hplabs!dsmith
		dsmith%hp-labs@csnet-relay

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 85 20:38:52 pst
Message-Id: <8503090438.AA04164@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: brunix!alb (Adam Buchsbaum)
Subject: Challenger Missions Scrubbed

The mission of the space shuttle Challenger has been scrubbed
because officials are worried that a timing problem in the TDRS-A
satellite, now in orbit, will be duplicated in TDRS-B, now in
Challenger's cargo bay.  The problem is in the satellite's
encryption mechanism, used to code signals sent to and from
military shuttle flights.  A Canadian communications satellite,
also in Challenger's bay, will be moved to Discovery's bay,
for a hybrid mission including that satellite and a Navy
communications satellite that was scheduled to launch aboard
the Discovery on 22 March.  That date may move to early April.
The retrieval of the LDEF (Long Duration Exposure Facility),
which was left in orbit last April and was due to be retrieved
by the Discovery crew, will probably be put off until a later
mission.

NASA will announce this week which crew, the Challenger's or
the Discovery's, will fly the Discovery mission, and whether
or not Senator Jake Garn will have to wait for another flight.
It will also announce the new launch date.  Challenger will be
moved back to the VAB, where it will await another mission,
probably Spacelab-2 in late April.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 85 20:40:38 pst
Message-Id: <8503090440.AA04189@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: petrus!karn
Subject: Re: Launch Windows

> Shuttle launches have windows because if their launching a geo-stationary
> satelite which orbits over the same spot over earth the have to enter orbit 
> at the right spot over earth.

Not exactly. As the earth rotates, it carries the "target point" AND
the launch site with it, so you could launch at any time and still reach
the desired spot by flying the same trajectory.

The reason you have "launch windows" for geostationary missions is because
the spacecraft must be pointed in a different direction during the orbit
maneuvers and the climb to geostationary altitude, and the resulting sun
angles may be unacceptable if the launch were to take place at certain times.

Depending on the mission, there may be additional constraints on launch
time. In a rendezvous mission you must launch as the launch site
passes through the orbital plane of the target. There may be sunlight
and visibility requirements at various places (at emergency landing sites
for the shuttle, at observation targets for weather and spy satellites,
landing sites on the moon, etc) which all combine to produce a set of
acceptable launch times.

Phil Karn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 85 23:42:16 pst
Message-Id: <8503090742.AA04834@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: npois!jay (Anton Winteroak)
Subject: sail with holes


	The largest atoms are about 0.3 nanometers in diameter, hydrogen
(by far the most common) is about 0.1 nm. About the shortest wavelength
of light that comes out of the sun in quantity is about 90 nanometers.
Besides anything much higher energy than that would go through a micron
of aluminum nearly untouched. Visable light is more like 300 to 700 nanometers.
	Clearly holes under a quarter wave length could work to reduce
weight and drag, while not altering reflectiveness much. I have trouble
imagining the process by which this stuff is made. How could a few square
miles of this stuff be cheap ?

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #107
*******************

10-Mar-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #108    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 108

Today's Topics:
			    Re: Lunar colonies
			    Re: Launch Windows
			 Nearby vs. bright stars
				 Rollback
		   drilling small holes in solar sails
			    Re: Lunar colonies
			   LEO habitat ideas...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 9 Mar 85 04:32:33 pst
Message-Id: <8503091232.AA05824@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: haddock!stevel
Subject: Re: Lunar colonies

> This would allow for rotation of personnel as well as delivery
> of oxygen etc.

Your going to rotate personel????? How long do you expect people
to stay up there. At the cost of training and sending them up
I would expect at least a three month tour of duty, more likely
six months. Now for the off the cuff calculation.

3 Days transit time * 2 people * 26 times per year = 156 man days wasted

In sending people back, not to mention all the payload lost
due to having to carry the people, fuel and oxygen. Better to
send plants and nitrate to make oxygen on the moon. 

The faster a moon colony is self sufficient the better chance 
of it surviving.

Steve Ludlum, decvax!yale-co!ima!stevel, {ihnp4|cbosgd}!ima!stevel

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 9 Mar 85 04:31:53 pst
Message-Id: <8503091231.AA05813@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: haddock!stevel
Subject: Re: Launch Windows

There are telemetry and tracking considerations as well as
orbital insertion considerations. They like to deploy satilites
so that they are talking to ground stations just before and just
after burn. Sometimes I have read that the time is set so it can
be optically tracked by telescope.

For the India Palapa B I belive it the burn was to take place
over India shortly after sunrise because of the above
considerations.

Sketchilly yours

Steve Ludlum, decvax!yale-co!ima!stevel, {ihnp4!cbosgd}!ima!stevel

------------------------------

From: <bang!crash!bwebster@Nosc>
Message-Id: <8503091828.AA00283@cod.ARPA>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 85 22:47:50 PST
To: bang!space@mit-mc
Subject: Nearby vs. bright stars
Cc: bang!walter.smith@cmu-cs-k, bang!tim@uci, bang!taw@mordor,
        bang!schmidt@sumex-aim

  I've already received speedy replies from Walter Smith, Tim Shimeall,
Tom Wadlow, and Christopher Schmidt.  Many, many thanks, guys.  Unfortunately,
they were all pointing me at the Yale Catalog of Bright Stars.  This is
*not* a good source for nearby stars.  Why?  Because this catalog lists the
*brightest* stars in the sky, which (with a few exceptions) are not the
nearest.  The Bright Stars catalog is heavily biased towards O/B/A/F-class
stars, big bright ones that are usually dozens (if not hundreds) of light
years away.  The majority of stars within, say, 30 light years of Sol are
dim, red (M-class) stars, which will never make it on anyone's bright star
list.  True, there *is* some overlap--Sirius tends to be right up there--but
very few of the nearby stars make it onto a "bright stars" list.  Besides,
from what I can see, the Yale Catalog doesn't have the info there that I am
most interested in:  good, common names for the stars.  Most of the stars
within 30 ly or so have "real" names (Sigma Draconis, Keid, Wolf 359), or at
least the designation from some major catalog (BD +50, CD -44).  The Yale
list as described by the folks above doesn't have any of that.  

  By the way, I will cheerfully post my program when I'm done with it.  I
can continue to tweak for a while, because the program won't be listed in
the BYTE article; instead, it'll be on the BYTENet listings BBS.  It's
written in MacAdvantage, a UCSD Pascal compiler that runs under the Finder
and has access to most the Toolbox routines.  It shouldn't be terribly hard
to convert it to Lisa Pascal or even one of the many C compilers.  It would
be interesting to see what modifications this group might come up with.  I've
considered adding proper motion info to the data structure and allowing the
user to move forward and backward in time...but that's not a very high
priority right now.  

  Once again, my thanks to Walter, Tim, Tom, Christopher, and the other who
I know will send me similar messages about the Yale catalog.  Maybe we can
get something decent out of this yet.
					..bruce..
				Bruce Webster/BYTE Magazine
				bang!crash!bwebster@nosc
				{ihnp4, sdcsvax!bang}!crash!bwebster
				voice:  (619) 286-7576
				data:   (619) 286-7838 [300/1200 baud]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 9 Mar 85 11:34:36 pst
Message-Id: <8503091934.AA06749@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: brunix!alb (Adam Buchsbaum)
Subject: Rollback

Challenger was rolled off the launch pad and back to the VAB,
only the third time a shuttle has been rolled back from the
pad and the fifth time any American rocket has been removed
from a launch pad before launch, yesterday.  Discovery is
due to be rolled to the pad about 15 March, and NASA is hoping
to launch it on a hybrid mission by the 29th.  The agency
expects to pick a date and crew for the mission by tomorrow
or Friday.

------------------------------

Date:  9 Mar 1985 1142-PST
From: Richard M. King <DKING@KESTREL.ARPA>
Subject: drilling small holes in solar sails
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

	A hexagonal array of holes is exactly the interference pattern of three
mutually coherent light sources an infinite distance away from the surface and
located at the corners of an equilateral triangle.

	The holes do not have to be accurately placed so there is no need for 
the light sources to be an infinite distance away.

	The wavelenght of the light throwing the interference pattern does have
to be no larger than comparable to the desired holes, however.

	We should use an Eximer UV laser as a pilot beam to keep three more 
coherent, and fire a very short, high energy trio of beams onto the surface.

	The power has to be enough to vaporize the surface exactly where we 
have triply constructuve interference, and the beam has to be a short pulse 
for two reasons; to stop the various parts from moving during the blast, and to
prevent heat from the holes from spreading.

	The pulse length constraint probably makes it impossible to do a large
area at one time.

	I haven't worked any numbers, but a 1-meter diameter area seems about 
right to be able to deliver enough energy, to be able to have a short enough
pulse, and to have the transmission apparatus a reasonable size.  It is
possible to "expose" lots of separate areas.  Unexposed areas between the
exposed ones do little harm.

						Dick

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 9 Mar 85 19:29:48 pst
Message-Id: <8503100329.AA08216@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: Lunar colonies


	Sure you can get two one way ships there and then cannabalize them,
but lets be serious now. I know of no facility capable of launching a space
vehicle large enough to get to the moon other than JFK. There I don't think
they can handle two week launch times. Especially for something
that big.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 9 Mar 85 19:30:08 pst
Message-Id: <8503100330.AA08233@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: LEO habitat ideas...


	Does anybody have any data regarding the weights and measures of
a Saturn V rocket? I have a pet project I have been kicking around in my
head for a while.

	I presume(probably wrong) that some of the booster sections of
the saturn V rocket are still kicking around in mothballs.

	What would happen if you took just the booster, fitted it with some
solid rokect boosters, an areodynamic nose and launched it. I am trying to
work out the numbers regarding whether or not it can reach LEO, but I don't
have the numbers or the right equations. With time and help I'll get both.

	Here is a rather large hollow object with two perfectly good
airsealed chambers. If I remember right, the booster was something like 100
to 200 feet long. It also contains some LOX and Liquid hydrogren.  I am
assuming that boosters shut down when thrust drops off, rather than burn to
exhausted. Still there would be some unusable fuel in this thing, and with
the shuttle able to bring up some tools and personnel, I think it would not
take much to convert it into a usable habitat.

	It would contain two of the basic requirements needed. It gives
shelter, and it has air (well pure O2). Once some fittings are attached
(such as an airlock, solar cells, radio positioning gear, computers) then
the roughnecks would have a spartan but usable living quarters. If you put
up a few of these objects then you can use one as a "dry dock" where
sattelites can be repaired, another can be used for agriculture, another for
implementation of space industries. I don't think that this idea is the
greatest, but I do think its feasible (if the critters can be placed in
orbit!)

	I would love to see some people kick the idea around on the net. We
could work out some of the kinks in this crazy idea. Who knows, it might
become a reality. (oh wouldn't that be a rush!)

					Peter Barada
					ima!pbear!peterb

	I love mail and responses, I hope to see both.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #108
*******************

11-Mar-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #109    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 109

Today's Topics:
			 Re: Lunar rock chemistry
		    Watering the Deserts with Seawater
			  Saturn Vs in mothballs
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Mar 85 01:38:21 pst
Message-Id: <8503100938.AA09155@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Re: Lunar rock chemistry

> Is it not true that if one passes an electric current through molten lunar
> rock, one will get O2 in quantity ? I seem to remember reading this one
> place or another .. If this is true then the Lunar Explorers will need not
> carry a ton of atmosphere along with them to the moon !!
> 
> -Chris Sylvain <don@umd5.ARPA>

You must have seen Robinson Crusoe on Mars.
I have a lump of anorthosite (sp) which is the material lunar astronauts
practiced with to learn lunar planetary science.  It does not appear to
me that it would release O2 if it were or weren't molten.  You would have
to carry some incredible resources to raise the heat and the electricity.
2 langleys of solar energy is not a very great energy flux to make large
quantites of O2.  Plants located at the lunar poles suffer from angular
geometric effects: you would have to build huge tower collectors
which would have to rotate to follow the sun in a 28 day period.
[This latter point for other postings.]
A break even point ala fusion is a third consideration even if it were
possible to release the O2.

A separate note: on hybrid hypersonic transport engines for cheaper
orbital costs.  I have been reading about major areas of aerodynamic
research.  These complex engines are needed because they are crossing
three flight realms: subsonic, supersonic and hypersonic.  The turbine
system which we have lots of experience can cover the first two realms.
It turns out turbine engines are unable to hold a JP fuel flame much
beyond mach 3.  Enter a ram jet engine: not efficient at the lower
speeds, but with hydrogen as fuel, it might be efficient in this
realm.  Not much experience with elaborate engines like this.  The
complexity might make two or more sets of engines better; then there
are economic considerations for producing such a vehicle.

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,vortex}!ames!aurora!eugene
  emiya@ames-vmsb.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Mar 85 04:11:44 pst
Message-Id: <8503101211.AA09689@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: dartvax!chuck (Chuck Simmons)
Subject: Watering the Deserts with Seawater

As, far as I know, this question has nothing to do with space.  But I don't
know where else to turn.  A couple of us were sitting around shooting the
breeze, and started talking about how one would go about extracting water
from seawater.  Basically, I claimed that since one did not hear about
large plants turning seawater into water and making deserts into oases,
that it was either technolgically infeasible, or it simply cost too much
money to build a plant large enough to produce the river of water that
would be needed.  The person I was arguing with claimed that building such
a plant would be real easy and proceeded to describe a still to me.

So I thought I would bring some of my questions to the newsgroup which had
been discussing light sails with such clarity and enthusiasm.  Here are
some questions:  How much water would one want to extract from the ocean on
a daily basis to irrigate some reasonably large tract of land?  How much
fresh water could be produced on a daily basis by setting up an evaporation
tank a few acres in size and then putting some sort of glass or plastic
roof above the tank on which the water could condense?  What kinds of
problems do folk run into when they try to build desalinization plants?
What sorts of designs are used in building desalinization plants?

Thanks for any comments you may send my way via either Mail or this
newsgroup.  And if you feel the subject is more appropriate for some other
newsgroup, by all means, switch newsgroups.  Or, just to give these querys
some justification for being on this newsgroup, we could suppose we are
trying to build a desalinization plant on the 4th planet out from Alpha
Centauri which is known to be 99% covered by ocean.  Also, feel free to
mention schemes such as towing icebergs from one of the poles to an African
or Californian port (or whatever the Alpha Centauri IV equivalents are).

chuck_simmons%d1@dartvax

------------------------------

From: <bang!crash!bwebster@Nosc>
Message-Id: <8503110126.AA11527@cod.ARPA>
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 85 15:00:39 PST
To: bang!ima!pbear!peterb@Nosc
Subject: Saturn Vs in mothballs
Cc: bang!space@mit-mc

Peter -
>  I presume(probably wrong) that some of the booster sections of
>  the saturn V rocket are still kicking around in mothballs.

You presume correctly.  Three Saturn Vs were built (for Apollos 18, 19,
and 20) and never used.  One is on display (on its side) at the Johnson
Space Center, and I believe the other two are at Kennedy and Huntsville.
I might question the structural integrity, though, after 15 years of
sitting around outside.
					..bruce webster..
					bang!crash!bwebster@nosc
					{ihnp4, sdcsvax!bang}!crash!bwebster

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Mar 85 17:57:07 est
From: Tony Guzzi <tonyg%uconn.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA

Peter B.,

   Your two notes in Issue #108 have me a bit confused?  Your first message
says:

>	Sure you can get two one way ships there and then cannabalize them,
> but lets be serious now. I know of no facility capable of launching a space
> vehicle large enough to get to the moon other than JFK. There I don't think
> they can handle two week launch times. Especially for something
> that big.

Then you talk about:

>         What would happen if you took just the booster, fitted it with some
> solid rokect boosters, an areodynamic nose and launched it. I am trying to
> work out the numbers regarding whether or not it can reach LEO, ....
>  .... Here is a rather large hollow object with two perfectly good
> airsealed chambers. If I remember right, the booster was something like 100
> to 200 feet long. It also contains some LOX and Liquid hydrogren.  I am
> assuming that boosters shut down when thrust drops off, rather than burn to
> exhausted. Still there would be some unusable fuel in this thing, and with
> the shuttle able to bring up some tools and personnel, I think it would not
> take much to convert it into a usable habitat.  .....
>  .... It would contain two of the basic requirements needed. It gives
> shelter, and it has air (well pure O2). Once some fittings are attached
> (such as an airlock, solar cells, radio positioning gear, computers) then
> the roughnecks would have a spartan but usable living quarters. If you put
> up a few of these objects then you can use one as a "dry dock" where
> sattelites can be repaired, another can be used for agriculture, another for
> implementation of space industries.


    First, who said that the ships to the Moon would have to be launched from
the ground?  As long as your building what amounts to space stations in LEO
(Low Earth Orbit) to be used "as a `dry dock' where satellites can be repaired,
.... for agriculture, (and) for implementation of space industries.", why not
include space-ship building in your "space industries" and make them true "dry
docks".

    Also, why use Saturn V boosters for these stations when the shuttle has
a disposable fuel tank that is (or should be) just as air-tight and also
has two tanks (1 for liquid hygrogen and another for LOX).  I admit they are
smaller then a Saturn V booster but if Nasa can keep to a 66% rate of yearly
launches,  that means we could have around 8 or so of these tanks left in LEO
each year for use in both building these stations AND in building the ships to
the moon.  We may even do the "outrageous" thing of using a fuel tank AS a fuel
take on a future flight to the moon.  This would of course require the adding
of boosters the the shuttle's fuel tank to get it high enough so as to say in
orbit and not burn up in the atmosphere.  I believe there is some research
being done in this area.

    As long as we are salvaging shuttle fuel tanks, why not try to salvage
the spent boosters of one-shot rockets that may still be in orbit.  This would
give us "raw" materials to be either cannabalized or melted down (using solar
furnaces that would have to be built up there or brought up) to be used in the
making of the stations or the the moon ship.  The finding of these pieces of
space "junk" should not be hard.  I'm not sure which it is, but I know that
either S.A.C. or N.O.A.D. tracks all trackable objects in orbit and knows
what is what.

    This would do a number of things for us.  First, it would allow us to
keep LEO and possible geosynchronous orbit clean of debris.  Second, since
the gravitational force on the ship would be less in oribt that it would be
on the ground,  it should require less effort (hence, less fuel) to get from
Earth to the Moon.  Third, the ship would not have to be aerodynamically
sound since it would be operating in a vacuum.  The designers would be able
to leave out any unnecessary structures, such as coverings that in the past had
no function other than to make the rocket areodynamically sound.  It would
also allow the designers to make the rocket look as "weird" as they want (i.e.
bulges in strange places, odd-looking framework, etc.) just as long as the
kinematics of the ship are well understood for control reasons.  This would
allow lunarbase-needed equipment to be "built-in" easier.

					Tony Guzzi
		            <tonyg%uconn.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #109
*******************

12-Mar-85  0351	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #110    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 110

Today's Topics:
		     Challenger Crew to Fly Discovery
			Saturn V's gathering dust
		       Re: Re: Lunar rock chemistry
			 bright vs. nearby stars
			  Sail on, Silver Bird!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Mar 85 11:43:22 pst
Message-Id: <8503111943.AA15484@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: brunix!alb (Adam Buchsbaum)
Subject: Challenger Crew to Fly Discovery

The crew of the cancelled Challenger mission, including Senator Jake Garn,
with the exception of the French astronaut Patrik Baudry, will fly the
hybrid Discovery mission later this month.  The Discovery crew will be
reassigned, probably to whatever mission will now pick up LDEF, which was
remoed from Discovery's flight plan with the cancellation of the
Challenger mission.  Baudry has been assigned to a seven-day flight in
June.

------------------------------

Date:     Mon, 11 Mar 85 16:08:57 EST
From:     Joe Pistritto <jcp@BRL-TGR.ARPA>
To:       Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject:  Saturn V's gathering dust

	Actually, I think that the last space capable Saturn V was used to
orbit the Skylab.  I seem to remember that there were three built and
unused, one was used as a static display at either Kennedy or Huntsville,
one was used to orbit Skylab, and I seem to remember the other was
defective (although I could be wrong).  Does anyone know where that third
booster went?

							-JCP-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Mar 85 15:42:38 pst
Message-Id: <8503112342.AA17044@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: umd5!don
Subject: Re: Re: Lunar rock chemistry

>> Is it not true that if one passes an electric current through molten lunar
>> rock, one will get O2 in quantity ?
>> .. If this is true then the Lunar Explorers will need not
>> carry a ton of atmosphere along with them to the moon !!
>> 
> 
> You must have seen Robinson Crusoe on Mars.
> I have a lump of anorthosite (sp) which is the material lunar astronauts
> practiced with to learn lunar planetary science.  It does not appear to
> me that it would release O2 if it were or weren't molten.  You would have
> to carry some incredible resources to raise the heat and the electricity.
> 2 langleys of solar energy is not a very great energy flux to make large
> quantites of O2.
> A break even point ala fusion is a third consideration even if it were
> possible to release the O2.
> 
> --eugene miya
>   NASA Ames Research Center

[]
As a matter of fact, I haven't seen "Robinson Crusoe on Mars". Is it a
classic ?
I read the finding in an otherwise reputable science magazine -- Science News,
Science Digest, or something of that ilk. I can't be too precise on which one
in particular since I think it has been about four years since the article
appeared. No, I DO NOT read the National Enquirer, if that is what you are
thinking!!
When I say O2 in quantity, I do not mean that one suddenly gets weather 
balloon filling amounts -- Presto!
Rather, nothing magic about it at all. The idea is like sticking two
electrodes in water .. Of course the Explorers will need to bring some
atmosphere along with them, but as their needs expand this would be a method
to save the cost of shipping them the raw materials they will need.
Given they can produce electricity 2 weeks out of four(solar cells), and
can focus the sun with a mirror(enough heat to aquire 50mL or so of molten
rock or molten soil, wouldn't you agree?) what prevents the possibility of
obtaining O2 by electrolysis ? What's the chemical composition of the stuff
anyway ?

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
When the EPA says, "Get the lead out!", what do they REALLY mean ?
------------------------------------------------------------------

-Chris Sylvain

ARPA:  don@umd5.ARPA
CSNET: don@umd5
UUCP:  {seismo, rlgvax, allegra, brl-bmd, nrl-css}!umcp-cs!cvl!umd5!don

------------------------------

From: <bang!crash!bwebster@Nosc>
Message-Id: <8503120128.AA23814@cod.ARPA>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 85 11:20:06 PST
To: bang!philabs!v1!josh@Nosc
Subject: bright vs. nearby stars
Cc: bang!space@mit-mc

Josh -
  Please tell me you didn't key in that whole list yourself!  If you did, then
I'm really going to feel bad.  I'm afraid that the list doesn't help all that
much, at least not for the nearby stars.  Case in point:  the list I am
currently working with (100 nearest stars, from Allen's "Astrophysical
Quantities") deals entirely with stars with a parallax <= 0.155.  The list
you sent only had seven stars in that same region, all of which I already had.
Actually, I feel so bad about not being able to use the lists send by you
and by Mike Caplinger that I'm going to put together and post a "bright
stars" list as well.  Hell, that's all that astronomers are interested in
(to judge by the predominance of bright star lists), so I might as well
include it.  Your work isn't going entirely to waste, but I still feel
bad.

To the rest of INFO-SPACE:
  Many thanks for the reponses I've received, but *please* don't try to
extract a nearby stars list from a bright stars list.  It just isn't worth
the effort.  I know that a publication entitled "Catalog of Nearby Stars"
exists; I've seen references to it in bibliographies.  The question is, *where*
is it?  If any of you know, please let me know.  Thanks.
					..bruce..
				Bruce Webster/BYTE Magazine
				bang!crash!bwebster@nosc
{ihnp4, sdcsvax!bang}!crash!bwebster

------------------------------

Date: Mon 11 Mar 85 22:31:19-EST
From: FIRTH@TL-20B.ARPA
Subject: Sail on, Silver Bird!
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

Most of the information about light sails has been said, but you might
like a short summary of how to get around with them.

First, the propulsive force is created almost entirely by the reflection
of light from the sail.  Assuming perfect reflection, this force is normal
to the sail (by Heron's law), and can to a good first approximation be
calculated classically.

Secondly, a sailship in the vicinity of a star can use two forces:
gravity, directed always radially towards the star, and light, directed
normally to the sail, but of course never towards the light source (the
star).  Whenever you have two forces acting in different directions, you
can tack.  If you can tack, you can go anywhere.

Consider a typical initial state, of a ship in circular orbit,
counterclockwise when viewed from local North, oriented in the direction
of motion, ie with the star on the port beam.  Do nothing; keep those
sails furled; by Newton's First Law you will remain in stable orbit.

Now unfurl the sails perpendicular to the ship, ie deployed port -
starboard.  Nothing happens, for the simple reason that the sail is
edge-on to the light.  So deploy the sail fore and aft, and the light will
exert a force directly outward from the star.  This pushes you away;
unfortunately you gain potential energy but not angular momentum, so your
orbit becomes elliptical, with a greater apastron distance but shorter
periastron distance.

Now cant the sail so the force is away and forward - away from the star
and forward round the orbit.  The sail now stretches from port bow to
starboard quarter.  The light force will give you both potential energy
and angular momentum; with the correct angle you will move away from the
star in a smooth Archimedean spiral.  Please note that it is NOT necessary
for your craft to be light enough, or big enough, for radiation pressure
to overcome gravitation.  Any extra force will move you away from the
star, in time.  Note also that a sail configuration that works close in
will also work far out (in the classical approximation) since both forces
weaken equally with distance.

Finally, the manoeuvre that separates the women from the girls - moving to
an INNER orbit.  You cannot do that just by canting the sail the other
way.  Remember that every configuration has a component away from the
star, that tries to increase potential energy.  Three steps are necessary.
First, deploy the sail so as to reduce angular momentum, ie starboard bow
- port quarter.  There will be an inevitable outward thrust also.
Secondly, wait.  Your orbit will have become elliptical, and you will
gradually fall towards the star, trading potential for kinetic energy.
Finally, near periastron, deploy the sails again, similarly.  The light
force will push you away, but also reduce your angular momentum; if all
has gone well, you will be in a circular orbit closer than before.  If you
made a mistake, your sails melt.

Unfortunately, there are some technical difficulties.  Those sails are
BIG, and moving them around is not easy.  Moreover, when you are close to
a star, there are gravitational tidal effects that cannot be ignored.  If
you doubt that, go to the seacoast of your choice and watch the water
slosh about!  Many proposed sail designs (eg "aluminised nothing") would
tear apart even in Earth-Trojan orbit.

Robert Firth

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #110
*******************

13-Mar-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #111    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 111

Today's Topics:
			     Re: nearby stars
			    Surplus Saturn-V's
		      Falling bucket delays launch\!
			   Re: sail with holes
			 Re: LEO habitat ideas...
			     Re: Lunar Colony
			  re: re: launch windows
			 Private Space Companies
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Mar 85 09:31:08 pst
Message-Id: <8503121731.AA20729@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utastro!ethan (Ethan Vishniac)
Subject: Re: nearby stars

[]
Bruce,
  I'm sorry to put this in the net, but I'm not sure how to get mail to
you dependably.  I looked up the Catalog of Nearby Stars and came up empty.
There are catalogs of stars with large proper motions (angular motion on
the sky) which must be predominantly nearby stars.  I didn't find any that
included distance estimates.  The closest I came was a catalog published
as a Royal Observatory Bulletin (Vol 51) which gives spatial velocities
for some 3483 stars.  This catalog necessarily includes distance estimates,
most of which are based on spectral classification rather than a measured
parallax.  If you can find the catalog then column VIII gives the distance
modulus.  This is related to distance by 

     Distance (in tens of parsecs) = 10^^(0.2*distance modulus)

The catalog was compiled by Olin Eggin.  I hope this helps.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Mar 85 19:43:34 pst
Message-Id: <8503130343.AA25317@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: hughes@godzla.DEC (From the terminal of the Great Locksley Mendoza)
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Subject: Surplus Saturn-V's

As I recall, there are no flight worthy Saturn-V's in storage anywhere. 
There are a couple on display (KSC, Huntsville?, one of these may be a 
boilerplate) and one was used to launch Skylab.

I can dig up the dimensions if anyone still wants them.

Gary Hughes
UUCP:   ...{ decvax | allegra | ucbvax }!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-mother!hughes
                                                     ...!dec-godzla!hughes
ARPA:      hughes%mother.DEC @decwrl.ARPA
           hughes%godzla.DEC @decwrl.ARPA
reality?:  DEC, ZKO1-2/C07, 110 Spit Brook Rd, Nashua NH 03062

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Mar 85 19:50:43 pst
Message-Id: <8503130350.AA25425@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ahutb!ecl (ecl)
Subject: Falling bucket delays launch\!

I just heard on the 11 o'clock news that someone dropped a bucket on the space
shuttle, damaging some of the tiles.  Launch will be postponed until the damage
can be evaluated and repaired.

They can launch this thing into outer space, but it's damaged by a falling
bucket!?  That's about as believable as someone orbiting the Earth, and then
slipping in his shower... no, on second thought, forget it.  :-)

					Evelyn C. Leeper
Note temporary kluge for new address =>	...{ihnp4, houxm, hocsj}!ahuta!ahutb!ecl

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Mar 85 19:53:09 pst
Message-Id: <8503130353.AA25454@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: sail with holes

> 	Clearly holes under a quarter wave length could work to reduce
> weight and drag, while not altering reflectiveness much. I have trouble
> imagining the process by which this stuff is made. How could a few square
> miles of this stuff be cheap ?

That's precisely the hard part.  Ultrathin aluminum is not hard to make
by vapor deposition in vacuum, but punching lots of submicroscopic
holes in it isn't simple.  Perhaps a photolithographic process like
that used in ICs, using shortwave ultraviolet so the holes are small
by visible-light standards?  But how to make it fast and cheap...?
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Mar 85 21:04:28 pst
Message-Id: <8503130504.AA25930@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ames!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Re: LEO habitat ideas...

> 
> 	Does anybody have any data regarding the weights and measures of
> a Saturn V rocket? I have a pet project I have been kicking around in my
> head for a while.
> 
> 	I presume(probably wrong) that some of the booster sections of
> the saturn V rocket are still kicking around in mothballs.
> 

I think you're wrong - but there is a functional equivalent, and there's 
lots of them.  The shuttle external tank.  It turns out that you can
take the tank into low Earth orbit and GAIN payload mass (about 2000 lb
I think).  This is due to the manuvering necessary to land the tank
in an ocean rather than on some unsuspecting city.  The tank is very
large and quite air tight.  There have been some studies on using tanks
and even some space station proposals using them.  The problem, of course,
is that you need manufacturing capability to turn the tanks into anything
useful.  I.e., you need the space station before you can make
extensive use of the tanks.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Mar 85 21:03:50 pst
Message-Id: <8503130503.AA25915@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ames!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Re: Lunar Colony

> Forget draging the farmtools and small hand tools up with you
> (after the first batch - and even they are optional).  A good
> smith given reasonable ore and smelting facilities can make
> an astounding number of tools.

And, I imagin, produce an astounding amount of atmospheric pollution.
Since the available atmosphere is very small, you cannot disperse
things into it.  EVERY byproduct of your processes must be dealt
with.  The basic idea is very good though.  Bring tools that make
tools.  There was a study some time ago that identified a few dozen
tools that could be used to make almost any other industrial or agricultural
tool.  Unfortunately, I can't remember where the study came from.  I
think the California Space Institute had something to do with it.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Mar 85 21:04:11 pst
Message-Id: <8503130504.AA25923@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ames!al (Al Globus)
Subject: re: re: launch windows

> 
> Wait a minute.  That explains why the satalite needs a launch window, not
> the shuttle itself.  The shuttle is in LEO, which is not Geo-sync.  So the
> satalite could be launched from any point, provided the shuttle could acheive
> the correct orbit, right?  Maybe the calculations would be too difficult to
> do on the fly, and have to be done long beforehand?
>          Jim Rachiele

I'm not sure where this started, but there are a number of launch constraints
that I know of.  Some are:

To get a satellite from shuttle orbit you must start your burn when the
shuttle orbit crosses the plane of the equator.  This only happens twice
per orbit.  This 'node crossing' must occur in the correct place to get
the satellite to the right place in geo-sync.  It's possible to drift
a satellite around in geo-sync, but the initial location must be within
line of site of a ground control station for check-out.

Most satellites have thermal constraints that require launch from the
shuttle on the dark or light side, but not either.

There are constraints on the shuttle due to various abort options.  E.g.,
there must be sufficient light at the Dakar runway used for some
contigencies.


I'm sure there are plenty of other constraints.  When it comes down to
actually getting a satellite into orbit, it's amazing how complicated
things become.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Mar 85 21:10:37 pst
Message-Id: <8503130510.AA25998@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: osu-eddie!dcc (Daniel C. Chang)
Subject: Private Space Companies

Does anyone have any current information about private enterprise companies
in space, such as SSI or Starstruck?

					Daniel Chang
					dcc@osu-eddie

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #111
*******************

14-Mar-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #112    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 112

Today's Topics:
			      Launch Windows
			     Musical Shuttle
			    Re: Launch Windows
			  Funny units in SF book
			   List of nearby stars
			    O2 from lunar rock
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Mar 85 04:10:54 pst
Message-Id: <8503131210.AA27634@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: fisher@dvinci.DEC
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Subject: Launch Windows

> ...the comsat uses batteries until it can reach geo, stop spinning, and
> unfold its solar panels

This may be true for some of them (the stop spinning and unfold part), but
the ones I know about are either 3-axis stabilized and don't spin at all
(like TDRSS) or are spin stabilized and spin during their entire life
(like Palapa and Westar).

I don't think this invalidates any of the other stuff about sun sensors,
etc, since a spinning satellite would still have lots of constraints.  For
example, stuff that can't spin must either be mounted on the satellite's 
spin axis, or on a "despun" section, which itself must be attached to the
satellite on the spin axis.  Not to mention mass being distributed evenly
around the cicumfrance, fuel having to drain evenly.  AND...it must be pretty
hard to change the attitude of a spinning satellite, so you want to do that as
little as possible.  What a pain!  With all that, I wonder why the launch 
window is so wide!

Burns


	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Mar 85 07:32:51 pst
Message-Id: <8503131532.AA28307@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: brunix!alb (Adam Buchsbaum)
Subject: Musical Shuttle

NASA is considering giving the hybrid mission that was to have flown
aboard Discovery back to the Challenger, in the wake of the bucket
accident last week.  If Discovery, which now has two big gashes in its
left cargo bay door, is to be repaired and flown, it will probably mean a
launch somewhere around 19 April.  If Challenger is used, it could be
ready a few days before then.  If the mission is switched back, Charles
Walker, the only Discovery crew member to remain on the hybrid mission,
would probably be dropped and reassigned, and Patrick Baudret, from the
original Challenger crew, would be added.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Mar 85 07:38:04 pst
Message-Id: <8503131538.AA28366@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: umn-cs!atchison
Subject: Re: Launch Windows

One of the big factors which effects the launch window is the gyroscopes.
At some point in the launch countdown (I don't know exactly when it is),
they set the on board gyroscopes.  Once these are set, the launch must occur
at a specific time within a couple hours (?) or so.  The reason for this is
because the earth is rotating which continuously changes the gyroscope
settings. This is the basis of the launch window.  If they cannot launch 
within this time, they must cycle the countdown back to some point before 
the time the gyroscopes are set and start over again.

This is just one of the many things that, once started, must finish at a
predescribed time period.  Other factors include fueling.  Once they
send in the liquid hydrogen/oxygen, they must launch within a particular
time period.  There are many examples of these types of things.

The closer the time to launch, the smaller the launch window becomes as
more and more critical (time dependant) things are accomplished.  If these
time dependancies are not met, the count must be stopped and cycled back
to some previous point in time and continued from their.

As an interesting example, when the count reaches about T-3seconds, the
onboard computer takes over.  At some point past this (I don't know the
exact time), the launch window is only a few milliseconds long.  If they
(the computer) must delay the launch longer than a few milliseconds, the
launch must be aborted until much later.  This happened with the first
shuttle launch, the computer stopped the launch at T-3seconds, and it was
stopped longer than possible and they had to recycle the launch.  In that
example, they had to cycle back, I believe, 3 days.

------------------------------

From: Pavel.PA@XEROX.ARPA
Date: 13 Mar 85 12:39:17 PST
Subject: Funny units in SF book
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Pavel.PA@XEROX.ARPA

In ``Code of the Lifemaker''by James P. Hogan, there is the following
partial paragraph:

``In comparing the effectiveness of various ways of imparting momentum
to a projectile, physicists employ the concept of `impulse', which is
given by the product of the force acting on the projectile and the time
for which it acts.  In the case of spacecraft, a key indicator of
performance is the impulse per unit vehicle mass, or `specific impulse,'
which is measured in units of time and usually expressed in seconds.''

This has me confused.  It seems to me from my ancient high school
physics that force is measured in units of (mass * distance / time^2).
Impulse is therefore in units of (mass * distance / time) and specific
impulse in units of (distance / time) which is a lot like velocity, no?
Where did the extra factor of (time^2 / distance) come from?

I realise that this may not be entirely appropriate for this list, but I
can tell there are a lot of armchair physicists out there whose
knowledge I would like to tap.

Thanks,

	Pavel Curtis

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Mar 85 06:30 PST
From: TERRY%SAV@LLL-MFE.ARPA
Subject: List of nearby stars
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA

This is in reply to the person who wanted a list of nearby stars (Bruce
Webster?); I have lost the address.  Oh, to be in Tucson again, THE
astronomy school.  I could have scared up the catalog easily; I thought
sure someone else would.  Anyway, I'll hit a library or two here in
San Diego.  In the meantime, I have a list of 35 nearby stars, compiled
by Peter Van de Kamp in 1945.  No RA and DEC, but I can get that else-
where.  It does have absolute and apparent magnitudes, spectral class-
ification, proper motion, distance and luminosity.

I know it is old, and I can understand that you'd want the latest data
to fend off nitpickers, and I think you wanted 100 of them.  But, if
it will help, I'll key it in, get the positions (epoch 1950.0; I'm not
sure I can scare up 2000.0 positions really fast), and ship it to you.

Reply to TERRY%LAJ.SAINET.MFENET@LLL-MFE.ARPA and give me your full
mail address (I think you were "@NOSC"; is that an ARPANET node?).

Terry

------------------------------

Date: 13 Mar 85 23:34:52 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: O2 from lunar rock
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

O2 can be released by melting the rocks and passing a current through them.
The technique is a spin off of the Aluminum industry; in fact the most
recent work was down at Alcoa by Dr. Noel Jarret. They were working on a
type of smelter called a binary cell. As you raise the voltage, you select
which metal will come off next. This allows taking the Aluminum, Iron and
Titanium individually instead of attempting to seperate them later, or by
some density criteria.

The problem is that the electrodes do not last very long; the environment is
incredibly caustic and eats the hell out of them. There was good progress
towards reasonable lifespans, but I believe the work was dropped.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #112
*******************

15-Mar-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #113    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 113

Today's Topics:
		     Discvoery to be Repaired, Flown
				 1983 TB
			Re: Funny units in SF book
			  Nearby stars revisited
	    oh, where, oh, where have those little stars gone?
			    re: launch windows
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Mar 85 07:52:33 pst
Message-Id: <8503141552.AA05517@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: brunix!alb (Adam Buchsbaum)
Subject: Discvoery to be Repaired, Flown

NASA said yesterday that it will take a week to ten days to repair the
damage done to Discovery and that Discovery will definitely fly the hybrid
mission, launching sometime in April.  Last week, a 2500 pound bucket fell
onto the Discovery, putting two holes in the graphite-epoxy honeycomb
structure of the left cargo bay door; fortunately, there was no damage
done to the frame of the door.  The damaged sections will be replaced.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Mar 85 12:00:39 pst
Message-Id: <8503142000.AA06375@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: npoiv!jay
Subject: 1983 TB

	Anton Winteroak

	Over on net.astro someone (Ken A.) indicated that a body named
1983 TB was due to actually hit the Earth in the year 2115. Of course if
this is the case, we will welcome it safely into Earth orbit by means of
mid course corrections. It may be a valuable source of raw materials.
	I ask you though, does anyone actually know of any source of
information that would say that this is true or not. Please post any
real info about this, and give some reference.
	If you want to send me mail on this send it to ...!npois!jay
not !npoiv!jay. I'm just here today because of a bad power supply.

------------------------------

Sender: Parker.es@XEROX.ARPA
Date: 14 Mar 85 12:05:06 PST (Thursday)
Subject: Re: Funny units in SF book
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
From: James Parker <Parker.es@XEROX.ARPA>

Pavel,

in metric units you are quite correct in your reasoning.  "specific
impulse" is the english engineering term used to obscure the fact you're
talking about exhaust velocity.  since i don't understand english
engineering units, i can't tell you why specific impulse comes out in 1
/ sec.  i learned the metric system at age 20 and that cleared up lots
of questions like yours.  if you want to understand physics, think
metric.

James

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Mar 85 04:02 PST
From: TERRY%SAV@LLL-MFE.ARPA
Subject: Nearby stars revisited
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA

I apologize for sending this to the whole group, but I don't have in hand
the address of the person looking for nearby stars.  In any case, some of
you may be interested in these references anyway.

I have come up with more and better lists of nearby stars, these including
the positions.  But still all I can find is the top 50 or so.  If you want
one of these lists, I'll type it in and send it.  I'm still looking.

Terry R. Friedrichsen


George Abell, "Exploration of the Universe, 2nd ed.", Holt, Rinehart, and
Winston, 1969.
Appendix 12, page 698, lists about 50 nearby stars (counting multiples as
n separate stars), including position, distance, proper motion, radial
velocity, spectral type, and visual and absolute magnitudes.
Its source is unspecified.

Arthur P. Norton, "Norton's Star Atlas, 17th ed.", Sky Publishing Corporation,
1978.
Table 45, page 89, lists 25 nearby stars (same conditions as before), with
the same information as above, except gives parallax instead of proper motion.
Its source is also unspecified.

Elske Smith and Kenneth Jacobs, "Introductory Astronomy and Astrophysics",
W. B. Saunders Company, 1973.
Table A2-5, page 531, lists about 50 nearby stars, with the same information
as Abell, minus the radial velocity.
It credits distances to P. van de Kamp, and proper motions to W. Gliese.

------------------------------

From: <bang!crash!bwebster@Nosc>
Message-Id: <8503150452.AA23653@cod.ARPA>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 85 09:50:07 PST
To: bang!terry%laj.sainet.mfenet@lll-fme
Subject: oh, where, oh, where have those little stars gone?
Cc: bang!space@mit-mc

Terry (et alis) -
  My search has come down to the following points:
  (1)  I already have a list of the 100 nearest stars, from Allen's
_Astrophysical Quantities_ (3rd ed., Athlone Press, 1973).  But,
(as Jacqueline Suzanne might say) "one hundred stars aren't enough!".
  You see, I started the program with a list of nearly 200 stars, gleaned
from the map of UNIVERSE, an out-of-print SF role-playing game.  Going
from 200 to 100 stars was something of a visual let-down; I thought it
would be simple to up the count.  Foolish me.
  (2)  The book I want to get my hands on is _Catalog of Nearby Stars_ [sur-
prise!] by Wilhelm Gliese (Verlag, 1969).  Repeated trips to the 
libraries and astronomy departments at SDSU and UCSD have failed to
turn up said book.  I may just call up Verlag and order the book for
myself.  I know a copy exists at the HAO in Boulder (thanx to a call
from Dick Munro, who gave me the publisher info also).  I am beginning
to wonder if that's the only copy in existence.
  (3)  Many, many thanks for the great response from so many of you out in 
NetLand.  Gosh, it's nice to know that resources like this exist, and
that so many of you are willing to help out.  
  (4)  If you're interested in getting a copy of the program, please be 
patient.  I have it running on the Macintosh (using MacAdvantage);
I hope to have it running on the IBM PC (using Turbo Pascal) soon.
I may even convert it over to the Apple II, but no promises.  If you
are interested in a copy, please send me a message to my net address
below, indicating what machine (and, where applicable, language) you're
working with.  The article will be out in the July issue of BYTE; it
won't have a complete program listing, but it will explain the formulae
and techniques used.  
						..bruce..
					Bruce Webster/BYTE Magazine
					bang!crash!bwebster@nosc
					{ihnp4 | sdcsvax!bang}!crash!bwebster
					619/286-7576 [voice] 286-7838 [data]

------------------------------

Date: 14 Mar 85 22:04:00 PST
From: WOO IL LEE <lee@su-star>
Subject: re: launch windows
To: space%mit-mc <space%mit-mc@score>
Reply-To: WOO IL LEE <lee@su-star>


	I would like to clear up something that has me confused. Up to
now I have assumed that the PAM upper stage starts its burn when the
shuttle's orbit crosses the equatorial plane, and that the longitude of
this intersection is chosen so that the transfer orbit's perigee is near
the satellite's final station.
	Is this correct? Does the shuttle maneuver so as to establish
the proper nodes? Or does PAM have a plane change capability? ( I am
sure the IUS does).
			Puzzled
				Emilio P. Calius
				Stanford Univ.
------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #113
*******************

16-Mar-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #114    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 114

Today's Topics:
			Re: Saturn Vs in mothballs
			     Asteroid Mining
			Re: Funny units in SF book
			       Light Sails
		       Re: Re: Lunar rock chemistry
			       Re: 1983 TB
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 85 07:56:18 pst
Message-Id: <8503151556.AA09633@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Saturn Vs in mothballs

> You presume correctly.  Three Saturn Vs were built (for Apollos 18, 19,
> and 20) and never used.  One is on display (on its side) at the Johnson
> Space Center, and I believe the other two are at Kennedy and Huntsville.

Almost right.  One of the three left-over flight-ready Saturn Vs was
used to launch Skylab, or rather the bottom two stages of it were so
used.  I believe the Huntsville Saturn V is actually a non-flying test
article.  The KSC and JSC ones are/were real flight-ready boosters.

> I might question the structural integrity, though, after 15 years of
> sitting around outside.

Especially at the Cape, where salt-water corrosion has already damaged
some of the old launch towers beyond repair.  I believe the Huntsville
Saturn V has been designated for special preservation efforts, as a
national historical object or something like that.  But it's most unlikely
that any of them will ever be flyable again.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 85 11:49:48 pst
Message-Id: <8503151949.AA10471@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: wucs!esk (Steve Healey)
Subject: Asteroid Mining

     I am doing research on asteroid mining.  Can anyone suggest some sources
of information?  I have done some digging in a university library, and have
found a few books (the most useful of which is "Space Industrialization",
edited by Brian O'Leary).  However, most of the material I have found dates
from 1977 or earlier, and most of it seems to be based on one or two primary
sources that I cannot locate.
     Any information or tips on sources on asteroids, asteroid mining, or space
industrialization in general would be greatly appreciated.

                                               Steven Healey
                        reply to-------->      sph3898@wucec1
                                               ihnp4!wucs!wucec1!sph3898

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 85 10:15:19 pst
From: David Smith <dsmith%hplabs.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
Message-Id: <8503151815.AA04376@HP-MARS>
To: pavel.pa%xerox@csnet-relay.arpa
Subject: Re: Funny units in SF book
Cc: space%mit-mc@csnet-relay.arpa
Source-Info:  From (or Sender) name not authenticated.

	In ``Code of the Lifemaker''by James P. Hogan, there is the following
	partial paragraph:
	
	``In comparing the effectiveness of various ways of imparting momentum
	to a projectile, physicists employ the concept of `impulse', which is
	given by the product of the force acting on the projectile and the time
	for which it acts.  In the case of spacecraft, a key indicator of
	performance is the impulse per unit vehicle mass, or `specific impulse,'
	which is measured in units of time and usually expressed in seconds.''
	
	This has me confused.  It seems to me from my ancient high school
	physics that force is measured in units of (mass * distance / time^2).
	Impulse is therefore in units of (mass * distance / time) and specific
	impulse in units of (distance / time) which is a lot like velocity, no?
	Where did the extra factor of (time^2 / distance) come from?

Specific impulse is the impulse per unit propellant (not vehicle) mass.
You are right, its measurement in seconds is not very rigorous.  It comes
from force*time/propellant mass, measuring both force and mass in pounds
(or kilograms).  It is not proper to measure mass in pounds or force
in kilograms.  Force-pounds and mass-pounds can be interconverted by
assuming standard earth-surface gravity, which has dimensions of
distance / time^2.

Indeed, specific impulse should be measured in terms of velocity:
exhaust velocity.

		David Smith
		HP Labs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 85 17:23:11 EST
From: John Heimann <jheimann@BBNCCY.ARPA>
Subject: Light Sails
To: space@mit-mc.arpa

	One aspect of the light sail issue that everybody seems to be ignoring
is that an object with holes which are the order of magnitude of the wavelength
of the particles which strike the object, be those particles photons,
electrons, nucleii, or whatever, doesn't simply reflect or transmit the particles
(depending on whether the hole is "bigger" or "smaller" than the particle), but
rather diffracts them.  How much of the incident particle wave is scattered
forward and how much is scattered backward can only be calculated by doing a
Fourier integral of wavelength over the surface of the object with the holes.
If you choose the hole pattern in a certain way, for instance, your light sail
could turn out to be effectively a light lens or light prism - that's how a
photographic diffraction grating works, after all.  

							John

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 85 19:42:28 pst
Message-Id: <8503160342.AA13158@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Re: Re: Lunar rock chemistry

> > You must have seen Robinson Crusoe on Mars.
> > --eugene miya
> As a matter of fact, I haven't seen "Robinson Crusoe on Mars". Is it a
> classic ?
> -Chris Sylvain

yes!  it's almost as good as "destination moon" but some would say the
use of death valley as a location for mars is too hokey.  in the film,
crusoe discovers a yellow rock with releases o2 when burned thus giving
him a source of o2 in the rarified martian atmosphere.

--eugene

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 85 23:54:01 pst
Message-Id: <8503160754.AA13701@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ssc-vax!atst (Tom Pace)
Subject: Re: 1983 TB

> 	Over on net.astro someone (Ken A.) indicated that a body named
> 1983 TB was due to actually hit the Earth in the year 2115. Of course if
> this is the case, we will welcome it safely into Earth orbit by means of
> mid course corrections. It may be a valuable source of raw materials.
> 	I ask you though, does anyone actually know of any source of
> information that would say that this is true or not. Please post any
> real info about this, and give some reference.
> 	If you want to send me mail on this send it to ...!npois!jay
> not !npoiv!jay. I'm just here today because of a bad power supply.

For your information, Ken A. is a glitch in the UUCP software.  This 
glitch has been around for quite some time and no one seems to know how
to cure it.  It pops up at random on the net and posts nonsense that can
sometimes fool the unwary.  It is possible that this glitch might be in
the hardware at some unknown site (loose connection?) in which case it
will probably go away after a while.

Information on celestial objects in the vicinity of the earth (or pre-
dicted to be in the vicinity) can be found in Sky and Telescope magazine.
Brian Marsden at the Smithsonian Astrophysical Institute keeps up-to-date
lists of various objects and acts as an umpire for 1st sightings of all
comets, novas, and other phenomena.  You will find his address in the
magazine also.   

By the way...if you want to study the effects of the UUCP glitch mentioned
above, try subscribing to net.flame, net.politics, and net.religeon.  It
is especially virulent there.  I hope it doesn't run its full course 
through this group or we will all have to unsubscribe.

Tom Pace
ihnp4!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!atst
Above opinions are my own and should not be construed with those of the
Boeing Company which, interesting thought they might be, are not included
here for lack of space.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #114
*******************

17-Mar-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #115    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 115

Today's Topics:
		       Calling Employees of Hughes
			 Calling Hughes Employees
		    Catalog of stars within 25 parsecs
			   Re: Re: Lunar Mining
			  color field for stars
			     Re: Lunar Colony
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Mar 85 11:40:33 pst
Message-Id: <8503161940.AA14910@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!kcarroll (Kieran A. Carroll)
Subject: Calling Employees of Hughes

*

   A Question:  Are there any employees of the Hughes Aircraft company
out there on the net?  This includes all of the divisions of the company,
air, space, etc.  If there are, please get in touch with me by
mail.  I'm hoping that such a person might be able to help me chase
down a tech. memo put out by Hughes, 'lo these many years ago.

Thanks in advance!
-- 
     Kieran A. Carroll @ U of Toronto Aerospace Institute
     {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!kcarroll

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Mar 85 11:40:52 pst
Message-Id: <8503161940.AA14917@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!kcarroll (Kieran A. Carroll)
Subject: Calling Hughes Employees

*

   A Question:  Are there any employees of the Hughes Aircraft company
out there on the net?  This includes all of the divisions of the company,
air, space, etc.  If there are, please get in touch with me by
mail.  I'm hoping that such a person might be able to help me chase
down a tech. memo put out by Hughes, 'lo these many years ago.

Thanks in advance!
-- 
     Kieran A. Carroll @ U of Toronto Aerospace Institute
     {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!kcarroll

------------------------------

From: <bang!crash!bwebster@Nosc>
Message-Id: <8503162246.AA12768@cod.ARPA>
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 85 08:03:41 PST
To: bang!ota@s1-a
Subject: Catalog of stars within 25 parsecs
Cc: bang!space@mit-mc

Ted -
  many thanks for the Woolley reference.  I got a call on Friday from Edward
Olsen (who's working on SETI stuff at JPL), and he gave me the same info.  I
hope to hit the campus libraries today (Saturday) to see if it's there.  I
had to go ahead and send the list from Allen into BYTE (the article is almost
two weeks late), but I may be able to do a quick substitution if I can get
my hands on Wooley.
  I hope the rest of you aren't sick of hearing about nearby stars.  For those
of you with a similar interest, the reference that TEd and Edward gave me is:

  Woolley, Richard et alis.  Royal Greenwich Observatory Catalog of Stars
	Within 25 Parsecs, RGO Annuals, Vol 5.  Royal Greenwich Observatory,
	1970.  LofC# QB821 W1 1970.
					..bruce..
					bang!crash!bwebster@nosc
					{ihnp4 | sdcsvax!bang}!crash!bwebster

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Mar 85 19:38:26 pst
Message-Id: <8503170338.AA15942@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: haddock!stevel
Subject: Re: Re: Lunar Mining

Has anyone done studies on a sun light powered drill using a
mirror collector and some high intensity light guide to direct
the collected rays?

Of course it would only work 2 weeks out of four but it might
be able to be built on relativly low technology and the energy
is free, renewable, and nonnuclear.

Does anybody know about or have any references for high intensity
light guides for noncoherent sources. Would one be able to get
away with a highly reflective surface in a kevlar tube?

Steve Ludlum, {ucbvax!decvax!cca-co | ihnp4 | cbosgd}!ima!stevel

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Mar 85 19:55:01 pst
Message-Id: <8503170355.AA16162@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: rochester!jay (Jay Weber)
Subject: color field for stars

A short time ago someone posted an abbreviated version of the Yale
Catalog of Stars.  I'm enthusiastic about playing with the data, but
I don't understand one of the fields; the description is:

	***** Color *****

	Sign						A1

	B-V in UBV System				I3
	   (unit = 0.01 magnitude)

Can anyone fill me in on what measure of color this is?  Thanks.

Jay Weber
jay@rochester.arpa
..!seismo!rochester!jay

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Mar 85 23:35:09 pst
Message-Id: <8503170735.AA16671@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: amdahl!ems (ems)
Subject: Re: Lunar Colony

> > Forget draging the farmtools and small hand tools up with you
> > (after the first batch - and even they are optional).  A good
> > smith given reasonable ore and smelting facilities can make
> > an astounding number of tools.
> 
> And, I imagin, produce an astounding amount of atmospheric pollution.
> Since the available atmosphere is very small, you cannot disperse
> things into it.  EVERY byproduct of your processes must be dealt
> with.

The part about the smith in the space suit was humor.  I would
expect that the actual work would be done inside.  Yes, it would be
a closed system.  There will be garbage to deal with.  Don't
see how that changes things.  The process of reducing ore has
traditionally used carbon for this.  To waste scarce carbon by dumping
it into the 'air' would be plain stupid.  This brings up an
interesting point though:  what reducing agents are found in the
lunar environment?

>        The basic idea is very good though.  Bring tools that make
> tools.  There was a study some time ago that identified a few dozen
> tools that could be used to make almost any other industrial or agricultural
> tool.  Unfortunately, I can't remember where the study came from.  I
> think the California Space Institute had something to do with it.

A few dozen?  My god, that would be luxury!  I have a book on
smithing that shows how to start with *NONE*.  Start by making a few
bricks by hand.  These are cured in a fire made by hand.  They are
used to make a *VERY* crude furnace.  With this you smelt some
ore to get pig iron.  The iron is drained from the furnace into
rough moulds dug in the dirt (either by hand or with a stick or
a rock).  These first lumps of iron are moulded as a flat lump
for use as an anvil and a squarish lump with a hole in the middle for
a hammer.  Aditional iron is used for making pigs.  With the bootstrap
anvil and hammer you make crude tools for building a forge, billows,
real anvil and real hammer.

The first of these is the tongs.  They hold the work piece while
you use the hammer on it.  Next is a cutting tool or two.  (like
chisles)  With these you cut a file blank.  Harden it.  Then your
ready to do a better anvil and hammer.  Then some more tools and
a better forge.  etc.

Bootstraping is never easy, but it can be done!  Required are
dirt and clay, fuel (heat source), ore and reducing agent
(traditionally wood), water (for quenching and hardening),
and wood & leather for a billows (Though I would expect that
with solar heat the billows would be optional :-)

I would also expect that starting with a couple of good power
tools, a solar smelter kit, a real hammer and anvil, and a few
decent hand tools would get you a few years ahead of the game
real quick!
-- 

E. Michael Smith  ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems

Comedo ergo dorum

This is the obligatory disclaimer of everything.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #115
*******************

18-Mar-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #116    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 116

Today's Topics:
			Re: color field for stars
			     Re: Lunar Colony
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:     Sun, 17 Mar 85 17:09:42 CST
From: Mike Caplinger <mike@rice.ARPA>
Subject:  Re: color field for stars
To: jay@rochester.ARPA
Cc: space@mit-mc.ARPA
Message-Id:  <mike.55@enceladus.rice>

B-V is the difference between the magnitude of the star when measured
through a "blue" filter (440 nm) and a "visual" filter (yellow-green,
548 nm).  The difference can be used to determine the star's
temperature, since it defines two points on the blackbody curve, via
the equation

	B - V ~ 7000(1/T - 1/15000)  (units of Kelvins)

(The 15000K comes from the fact that for a star of spectral class A0V
B = V by definition.)

Alas, stars are often not blackbodies.

	- Mike

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Mar 85 20:04:59 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an z29-e) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8503180404.AA11735@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: Lunar Colony
Cc: 

> > Forget draging the farmtools and small hand tools up with you
> > (after the first batch - and even they are optional).  A good
> > smith given reasonable ore and smelting facilities can make
> > an astounding number of tools.
> 
> And, I imagin, produce an astounding amount of atmospheric pollution.
> Since the available atmosphere is very small, you cannot disperse
> things into it.  EVERY byproduct of your processes must be dealt
> with.

Forgive me, but I don't understand.  How on earth can you have air pollution
when you don't have air?  In this case, the byproducts of smelting wouldn't
be precipitate suspended in a fluid (= air pollution), but rather would
settle to the ground as a dust.

						Rick.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #116
*******************

19-Mar-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #117    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 117

Today's Topics:
			     Asteroid mining
			  coloUr field for stars
			  Re: O2 from lunar rock
			    re: launch windows
			       info request
		     Road test of shuttle transporter
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 17 Mar 85 16:39:23 EST
From: Dominique.Carrega@CMU-RI-ISL2
Subject: Asteroid mining
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

I'm doing a research project on asteroid mining.  If any one can help,
recommend sources, etc., I'd be eternally grateful.

Also, is there any way of getting back "issues" of the SPACE digest?  I
though there might be some interesting messages that I've missed.

		-Daniel Zigmond (c/o djc@cmu-ri-isl2)

[Old issues of the Space Digest can be requested by a note to space-request@mc
if you know what issues you want.  Unfortunately the archives are not kept on
a machine with anonymous FTP so getting all the old digests is a bit more work.
If that's what you need though send a message to space-request and something
can be worked out.
	-Ted Anderson (The Moderator)]

------------------------------

Date: 18 March 1985 07:42-EST
From: Richard Mlynarik <MLY @ MIT-MC>
Subject:  coloUr field for stars
To: SPACE @ MIT-MC, jay @ ROCHESTER

See also the recently published and beautiful "Colours of Stars"
by David Malin (the AAT photography wizard) Cambridge University Press, 1984

This will tell you a moderate amount about stellar spectral classifical
but is also a wonderful pretty-picture-book.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Mar 85 09:30:36 cst
From: "Duncan A. Buell" <buell%lsu.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To: space-enthusiasts@mit-mc.csnet

Regarding the S-V boosters in "mothballs."  There is a reasonably realistic
mockup or else the real thing at the Alabama tourist Welcome Station shortly
after crossing the Alabama border on I-65 (?) from Tennessee, and shortly
before the turnoff from I-65 (Nashville to Birmingham) to Huntspatch.
I think that it's an S-V and not the smaller one (I know the difference, but
I can't remember what it is that is there) but I have no idea how "real"
it is or how much above the booster stage is real.  It is mounted vertically,
so anything over the booster could be totally fake and no one would know.

Duncan Buell
csnet: buell@lsu

------------------------------

Return-Path: <hao!ames!aurora!eugene@seismo.ARPA>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 85 10:04:16 pst
From: hao!aurora!eugene@seismo.ARPA (Eugene miya)
Message-Id: <8503181804.AA12838@aurora.UUCP>
To: ut-sally!mordor!space@seismo.ARPA
Subject: Re: O2 from lunar rock

I stand corrected.

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,hao,dual,ihnp4,vortex}!ames!aurora!eugene
  emiya@ames-vmsb.ARPA or eugene@riacs.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Mar 85 11:56:52 pst
Message-Id: <8503181956.AA21330@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: petrus!karn
Subject: re: launch windows

> 	I would like to clear up something that has me confused. Up to
> now I have assumed that the PAM upper stage starts its burn when the
> shuttle's orbit crosses the equatorial plane, and that the longitude of
> this intersection is chosen so that the transfer orbit's perigee is near
> the satellite's final station.
> 	Is this correct? Does the shuttle maneuver so as to establish
> the proper nodes? Or does PAM have a plane change capability? ( I am
> sure the IUS does).

This is essentially correct. The deployment takes place on an equator
crossing, and the PAM ignites on the next crossing, half an orbit later.
This allows the orbiter to do a separation maneuver at the time of
deployment so that it will be some distance away by ignition time.
Selecting the orbit on which deployment occurs allows the resulting transfer
orbit apogee to occur near the desired parking spot to minimize the amount
of near-stationary drifting required.

Any engine can do a plane change if it is pointed out of plane.
I've seen the transfer orbit elements for a few PAM missions and they
do reduce the inclination by about 3 degrees. I'm not sure why because
it is more efficient to let the apogee motor take it out instead; perhaps
it allows finer balance between the two stages without having to shave
out propellant.

Phil

------------------------------

Date: Mon 18 Mar 85 17:05:39-PST
From: Laurence R Brothers  <LAURENCE@SU-CSLI.ARPA>
Subject: info request
To: space@S1-A.ARPA


Can anyone tell me what conditions would be like if you had a G-type sun
in a tight binary with a black hole of similar mass, just close enough
for a little of the chromosphere of the sun to be continually eaten
by the black hole. WOuld there be weird radiation throughout the system?
What would inhabitants of an Earth-analogue planet notice, or is there
some reason they wouldn't be around at all. Assume that so little of the
chromosphere is being eaten that there is enough time for life to develop
on an Earth-type world.

Answers to me, I guess, and not the bulletin board. Thanks in advance for
any guesses.

-Laurence
-------

------------------------------

To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Road test of shuttle transporter
Date: 18 Mar 85 21:40:07 PST (Mon)
From: Mike Iglesias <iglesias@uci-icsa>

The April issue of Road Test magazine has a tongue-in-cheek 'road test'
of the transporter that moves the shuttle from the VAB to the
launch site.  Road Test has a 'road test' of this sort every April.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #117
*******************

20-Mar-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #118    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 118

Today's Topics:
		       Space Station Press Release
			     Lunar Explosives
		       Public Domain Star Catalogue
	  Re: oh, where, oh, where have those little stars gone?
		   Re: Road Test of shuttle transporter
		       nearby stars (last message?)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 85 04:55:03 pst
Message-Id: <8503191255.AA25014@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ssc-vax!marla (Peckham)
Subject: Space Station Press Release


The following is a press release issued by NASA concerning the Space
Station Phase B contract awards:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NASA News March 14, 1985
 
Release No: 85-38
 
NASA SELECTS 6 INDUSTRY TEAMS FOR SPACE STATION CONTRACTS
 
The National Aeronautics and Space Administration has selected 6 industry 
teams for negotiations leading to fixed-price contracts for definition and 
preliminary design (Phase B) of elements of a permanently manned Space Station 
to be operational in low-Earth orbit by the mid 1990s.
 
The contracts, to begin April 15, will extend for 21 months and will cover 
Space Station elements that have been assigned to four NASA centers.

The responsible NASA center and the industry teams selected for negotiations 
are:
 
MARSHALL SPACE FLIGHT CENTER, Huntsville, Ala. -- Boeing Aerospace Co., 
Seattle; and Martin Marietta Aerospace, Denver.
 
GODDARD SPACE FLIGHT CENTER, Greenbelt, MD. -- RCA Astro Electronics, 
Princeton, NJ; and General Electric Co., Space Systems Division, Philadelphia.
 
LEWIS RESEARCH CENTER, Cleveland -- Rockwell International, Rocketdyne 
Division, Canoga Park, Calif.; and TRW Federal Systems Division, Redondo 
Beach, Calif.
 
In addition, NASA will negotiate with Lockheed Missiles & Space Co.,
Sunnyvale, Calif.; McDonnell Douglas Astronautics Co., Huntington Beach, 
Calif; and Rockwell International, Space Station Systems Division, Downey, 
Calif.; the three proposers for work to be performed under the management of 
the Johnson Space Center, Houston.  Following negotiations, a report will be 
presented to the NASA Administrator who will then award one or more contracts.
 
Although the value of each contract will be negotiated, the Request for 
Proposal issued Sept. 14, 1984, indicates that the approximate value of each 
contract to be managed by the Marshall Center could be $24 million, by Johnson 
$27 million, by Goddard $10 million, and by Lewis $6 million.

In addition to the definition and preliminary design of the permanently manned 
Space Station, contractors are required to study how those elements of the 
Space Station would change were the station originally man-tended rather than 
permanently manned.  Contractors also will pay particular attention to the 
recommendations of the NASA Advanced Technology Advisory Committee which is 
identifying automation and robotic technologies that could be used in the 
Space Station.
 
Following completion of the 21-month contracts, NASA plans to move, in 1987 
into final design and development (Phase C/D) of the Space Station.

The work to be managed at each center covers:
 
Marshall -- Definition and preliminary design of pressurized "common modules" 
which can be equipped with appropriate systems for use as laboratories, living 
areas, and logistic transport; environmental control and propulsive systems; 
a plan for equipping a module as a laboratory and additional ones for possible 
use as logistics modules; and a plan for accommodations for orbital maneuvering
and orbital transfer vehicles.
 
Johnson -- Definition and preliminary design of the structural framework to 
which the various elements of the Space Station will be attached; interface 
between the Space Station and the Space Shuttle; mechanisms such as the Remote 
Manipulator Systems; attitude control, thermal control, communications and 
data management systems; plan for equipping a module with sleeping quarters, 
wardroom, and galley; and plan for extra-vehicular activity.
 
Goddard -- Definition and preliminary design of the automated free-flying 
platforms and of provisions to service, maintain, and repair the platforms and 
other free-flying spacecraft; provisions for instruments and payloads to be 
attached externally to the Space Station; and plan for equipping a module as a 
laboratory.
 
Lewis -- Definition and preliminary design of the electrical power generation, 
conditioning and storage systems.
 
President Reagan, in his State of the Union Message of Jan. 25, 1984, directed 
NASA to develop a permanently manned Space Station and to do it within a 
decade.  With the Space Shuttle approaching operational maturity, the agency 
believes the Space Station to be the next logical step in space for the United 
States.
 
NASA will retain the responsibility for overall program definition and plans 
to retain responsibility for systems engineering in integration throughout the 
program.  This effort will be managed at the Johnson Space Center.
 
NASA's plans call for a Space Station to be operational by the mid 1990's.  It 
will be capable of growth both in size and capability and is intended to 
operate well into the 21st century.  It is planned to be placed in low Earth 
orbit, about 300 miles high, and at an inclination to the equator of 28.5 
degrees.  It will include a number of pressurized modules and a power supply 
of about 75 kilowatts, support a crew of six to eight people and have two or 
more free-flying platforms.
 
For the purpose of the definition and preliminary design activity, NASA has 
selected a Space Station reference configuration called "power tower".  This 
is one of a family of configurations that uses similar elements or components.  
The power tower family is considered a starting point for the definition 
studies and is expected to undergo significant modifications as the studies 
progress.  Contractors may offer modifications within the reference concept 
family or other preliminary designs.
 
Launch of the Space Station elements and subsequent transportation between the 
Earth and station will be provided by the Space Shuttle.
 
A major objective of the Space Station Program is to bring about participation 
of international partners as builders and users as well as to assist in Space 
Station operations.  The European Space Agency, Canada, and Japan have 
indicated interest in participating in the Space Station program.  Funding for 
such international participation will be provided by the other governments who 
will award their own definition and preliminary design contracts in phase and 
in coordination with the NASA activity.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marla S. Baer-Peckham
Boeing Aerospace Co.
ssc-vax!marla

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 85 05:01:08 pst
Message-Id: <8503191301.AA25063@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ISM780!chris
Subject: Lunar Explosives

Actually the use of explosives on the moon is quite practical.
In a recent response to my original lunar colony note, several
problems were brought up. They included the distance material
is thrown, damage to nearby structures, and safety. It turns
out that modern explosives and techniques are suitable for the
task.

  First, distance material is thrown. A little reflection shows
that the maximum time for particles to land on the moon is twelve
times the time the same particle would take on earth. On earth
very large explosions (strip mining bench blasting) can throw
sizable pieces several hundred yards. Time of flight is on the
order of a second. We won't be using a blast anywhere near as
big. Earth explosions (conventional explosives) don't come anywhere
near to putting stuff in orbit. The 1/6 gravity of the moon is nowhere
near low enough to enable stuff to reach orbital velocity. If we stay
under cover for about 15 seconds (but call it a minute to be safe)
everything will have landed.

  Second, damage to nearby structures. There is a book called
"The Modern Technique of Rock Blasting" published in the early
seventies in Sweden. I read the copy in the UCLA Research Library.
It shows methods for doing precision blasting in areas where fragments
cannot be allowed to fly about. One picture shows a building foundation
being blasted with buildings on either side, literally feet away from
the blasts. The text talks about how to minimize ground shake and
fragment throw. It is quite practical to blast hard rock within feet
of existing structures without damaging them. The text has some
amazing pictures that show rock that looks like it has been sawn
that has really been blasted. It is possible to control explosives
to give very precise results.

  Third, is safety. There are modern explosives that are shock
insensitive to an amazing degree. One result of the nuclear weapons
program was the development of explosives to compress the nuclear
material that would not detonate during an accident. There is
a film that is shown at the Museum in Los Alamos that shows rockets
with cargos of the insensitive explosive impacting concrete walls.
The rocket is destroyed, but the explosive does not detonate.
This explosive is also easily machined, and stores well. It would
be safer to transport than the solid fuel rockets used as kick
motors on satellites.

  The nice thing about explosive digging is that you can move a lot
of material in very short order. With proper precautions it is no
more dangerous than using a catapilar tractor, and much faster.



			chris kostanick
			decvax!vortex!ism780!chris

------------------------------

From: Michael_D'Alessandro%Wayne-MTS%UMich-MTS.Mailnet@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA
Message-ID: <46350@Wayne-MTS>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 85 22:03:48 EST
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Public Domain Star Catalogue

Are there any public domain star catalogues available in
machine-readable form on the net?  If you know of any, could you please
tell what media format it is in (on-line, on tape, on floppy) and how
large it is?  A brief description of what is contained in the catalogue
would be very helpful also.  We have a user at our site interested in
obtaining such a catalog.

                      Michael D'Alessandro

<<Internet>>:

MPD%Wayne-MTS%UMich-MTS.Mailnet@MIT-Multics.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 85 16:28:36 cst
From: speegle@ut-ngp.ARPA (Charles R. Speegle)
Posted-Date: Tue, 19 Mar 85 16:28:36 cst
Message-Id: <8503192228.AA01467@ut-ngp.ARPA>
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Re: oh, where, oh, where have those little stars gone?
    A friend of mine has already researched and draw up a star map from

reliable sources(don't know exactly which ones) that has a 50 light year
diameter map centered on earth. It has over 1000 stars.  In case you're
wondering it was for a game.  It looks quite nice.  If anyone is interested
contact me.
		Charles R. Speegle
	        (512-926-0420)
p.s. 1st time to reply if I fail don't flame me contact me personally.

------------------------------

To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Re: Road Test of shuttle transporter
Date: 19 Mar 85 16:42:24 PST (Tue)
From: Mike Iglesias <iglesias@uci-icsa>

Sorry, that should be the April issue of Road and Track magazine, not
Road Test magazine, that has the road test of the shuttle transporter.

------------------------------

From: <bang!crash!bwebster@Nosc>
Message-Id: <8503200940.AA26481@cod.ARPA>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 85 21:59:24 PST
To: bang!katz@uci-icse
Subject: nearby stars (last message?)
Cc: bang!space@mit-mc

Martin (and the rest of you helpful people):
  (1)  there appear to be no copies of either Woolley or Gliese here in
       San Diego.  I made trips to UCSD, SDSU, and even USD with no luck. 
  (2)  UC Irvine has (according to MELVYN, the online UC library catalog)
       a copy of Woolley.
  (3)  Michael Hartsough, a student at USC, found a copy of Gliese (or was
       it Woolley?) and checked it out (bless his heart).  I may yet run
       up and look at it (not to mention do some xeroxing).
  (4)  Had a long and profitable talk with Wayne Warren, director of the
       Astronomical Data Center at NASA/Goddard.  He has both Gliese and
       Woolley *on mag tape* and will cheerfully send me the files if I
       send him a blank tape.  Then I'll just need to find someone who
       can transfer it from mag tape to a uucp node (and thence to crash).
       Warren also said that Gliese is working on a brand-new catalog of
       nearby stars which is supposed to be out by early next year.  I, for
       one, plan to buy a copy when it comes out.
  (5)  If you're interested in the star map program (or even just the list
       of nearby stars), please drop me a line at the address below.  I'm
       not ready (able) to send stuff out yet, but I will as soon as I can.
       As mention, the Mac version is written in MacAdvantage (UCSD Pascal);
       I hope to quickly convert it to C (probably Megamax), so state your
       preference as to which language you want (IBM'ers:  I'll do a conver-
 sion to Turbo Pascal at some point).  
  (6)  Thanks to one and all; you've all been great.  
						..bruce..
					Bruce Webster/BYTE Magazine
					bang!crash!bwebster@nosc
					{ihnp4 | sdcsvax!bang}!crash!bwebster

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #118
*******************

22-Mar-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #119    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 119

Today's Topics:
			    Mystery particles
			    re: launch windows
	 request for moon phase and position calculation programs
	  Re: oh, where, oh, where have those little stars gone?
			     star map article
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thursday, 21 March 1985 07:58:58 EST
From: Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa
To: space@s1-a.arpa
Subject: Mystery particles
Message-ID: <1985.3.21.12.56.32.Hans.Moravec@cmu-ri-rover.arpa>


n130  2330  20 Mar 85
BC-PARTICLES
By WALTER SULLIVAN
c.1985 N.Y. Times News Service
    NEW YORK - Astrophysicists say they believe a cosmic power source
far out in space may be bombarding the earth with subatomic particles
different from any known to science.
    Recordings taken deep in a mine at Soudan, Minn., an Ohio salt mine
and beneath a World War II bunker at the University of Kiel in West
Germany are believed to include scores of high-energy particles from
the general direction of Cygnus X-3, a double-star system in the
constellation Cygnus.
    Scientists said Wednesday that they were at a loss to explain the
new data in terms of known forms of radiation, and stressed that the
recordings needed much more analysis.
    But they said the data called into question the suggestion made
several weeks ago, on the basis of particles detected in a salt mine
beneath Lake Erie, that Cygnus X-3 may be a major source of extremely
high energy neutrinos.
    Neutrinos are the most penetrating and elusive of all known
subatomic particles. They can pass through the earth or almost any
amount of detecting material without producing any effect.
    In recent days, reports of the Minnesota and Ohio observations have
prompted underground observatories elsewhere to seek verification,
including those in the Frejus and Mont Blanc tunnels that link France
and Italy under the Alps.
    Dr. Donald Cundy of CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear
Research in Geneva, Switzerland, said Wednesday that his recordings
under Mont Blanc had shown ''something interesting,'' but he was not
prepared to say more.
    One member of the Ohio salt mine team, Dr. John Learned of the
University of Hawaii, who has analyzed the observations there, says
he is ''pretty well convinced'' that some new form of physics is
involved in the observed particles.
    But Dr. Shelton Glashow of Harvard University, winner of a Nobel
Prize for his theoretical contributions to high-energy physics,
described the reports as ''unconvincing evidence for an unbelievable
result.'' In a telephone interview, he termed the findings ''really
wild,'' but said their validity ''is, of course, possible.''
    The bunker observations in West Germany were actually reported
several years ago, but until now were widely regarded as an
experimental error.
    Cygnus X-3 was originally identified as a source of powerful X-rays.
It is now believed to be two extremely dense stars circling one
another at close range and, in some unknown manner, emitting profuse,
high-energy radiation in tempo with the motion of the two objects
around one another every 4.8 hours.
    In analyzing the salt mine data for evidence of neutrinos from
Cygnus X-3, scientists assumed those that had passed through
thousands of miles of rock would be most easily distinguished from
other forms of radiation. The search, therefore, focused on particle
tracks originating when Cygnus X-3 was below the horizon or very low
in the sky. About 20 candidate events fit the direction and 4.8-hour
period of that source.
    On learning of the salt mine results, the Minnesota group began
examining their data, but included arrivals from directly overhead.
They found that candidate particles arrived readily when Cygnus was
high in the sky but not when it was below the horizon. This indicated
that, unlike neutrinos, the particles can traverse only a limited
amount of rock. Further, far too many particles were recorded for
them to have the elusive character of the ghostly neutrinos.
    In any case, the particles detected are assumed to be muons - heavy,
short-lived counterparts of electrons - produced by high-energy
particles hitting material in the detectors or nearby walls. Attempts
to identify sources of cosmic rays, which are extremely high-energy
particles that rain on the earth, are conducted deep under ground to
avoid less energetic forms of radiation. Even so, the detectors still
record large numbers of muons generated by less powerful cosmic rays
hitting the atmosphere.
    Thus, according to Dr. Marvin L. Marshak of the University of
Minnesota, his group's underground evidence of Cygnus X-3 bombardment
has been extracted from 870,000 recorded muon penetrations.
    The first step was to set aside all but those arriving from within 3
degrees of the direction of that hypothetical source. This reduced
the sample to 1,100 penetrations, or events. The second step was to
analyze their arrival times to see if a significant number fit into
the 4.8-hour cycle of known emissions from Cygnus X-3.
    Surface observatories in the United States, Britain and Germany have
shown that Cygnus X-3's output of other radiation, such as extremely
high-energy gamma rays, shows such a periodicity. Analysis of
recordings in the Soudan mine by a collaboration of the University of
Minnesota and Argonne National Laboratory has attributed 80 events to
Cygnus X-3, with an error margin of 20.
    Marshak and his colleagues reported their data, in tentative form,
to Physical Review Letters. However, collaborators in the salt mine
observations, including physicists from the University of California
at Irvine, the University of Michigan and Brookhaven National
Laboratory, have not done so as they sought to strengthen their
analysis.
    
nyt-03-21-85 0229est
***************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Mar 85 08:51:09 pst
Message-Id: <8503211651.AA00507@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: re: launch windows

As Phil mentions, it is generally more efficient to do plane changes
at apogee.  I thought people might be interested in why.  Basically,
when you're far away from a gravitating body, all orbits look similar
in one sense:  velocities are small, and the differences between the
velocity vectors of different orbits are therefore small.  So you can
make orbit changes in general, and plane changes in particular, with
relatively modest expenditures of fuel.  Of course, you have to haul
the fuel up to the maneuvering altitude, but it turns out that you
still come out ahead in general.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Mar 85 11:47:08 pst
Message-Id: <8503211947.AA01476@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: plx!adams (Robert Adams)
Subject: request for moon phase and position calculation programs


     I am looking for programs or algorithms for calculating
the phases of the moon.  Programs or algorithms that calculate lunar,
solar, and earthar positions and can calculate eclipses (lunar and/or
solar) would also be happily accepted.  Prefered languages are
C and FORTRAN although algorithms in any language are usable.

   ..!{decvax,ucbvax}!sun!plx!adams             -- Robert Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Mar 85 15:46:52 cst
From: speegle@ut-ngp.ARPA (Charles R. Speegle)
Posted-Date: Thu, 21 Mar 85 15:46:52 cst
Message-Id: <8503212146.AA00122@ut-ngp.ARPA>
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Re: oh, where, oh, where have those little stars gone?

[a repost since the line eater struck!]

	A friend of mine worked several months on a star map, taking
as sources books from the UT astro. library(exactly which I don't know)
It is centered on earth and the diameter is 50 lt. years.  It is printed
on hex paper and it was for a game.  As I wrote before it looks nice,
contact me if interested.
	Charles R. Speegle
	(512-926-0420)

------------------------------

From: <bang!crash!bwebster@Nosc>
Message-Id: <8503220940.AA23600@cod.ARPA>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 85 22:56:53 PST
To: bang!space@mit-mc
Subject: star map article

A number of you have expressed an interest in the program but for a system
other than the Macintosh.  If you'd like, I can send you the accompanying
article (which *is* already on my Compaq), and that may tell you most of
what you need to know to implement it (except, of course, for the hard part:
the graphics).  Anyone interested?
					..bruce..
				Bruce Webster/BYTE Magazine
				bang!crash!bwebster@nosc
				{ihnp4 | sdcsvax!bang}!crash!bwebster

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #119
*******************
!22-Mar-85  0348	@MIT-MC,@seismo.ARPA:nsc!cadtec!cate3@seismo.ARPA 
Received: from MIT-MC.ARPA by S1-A.ARPA with TCP; 22 Mar 85  03:48:14 PST
Received: from seismo.ARPA by MIT-MC.ARPA; 22 MAR 85 06:55:21 EST
Return-Path: <nsc!cadtec!cate3@seismo.ARPA>
Received: from hao.UUCP by seismo.ARPA with UUCP; Fri, 22 Mar 85 06:54:36 EST
Received: by hao.NCAR (4.12/4.7)
	id AA23486; Thu, 21 Mar 85 23:24:47 mst
From: <nsc!cadtec!cate3@seismo.ARPA>
Received: by HP-VENUS id AA07788; Thu, 21 Mar 85 18:51:39 pst
Received: by nsc.UUCP (4.12/4.7)
	id AA25632; Thu, 21 Mar 85 16:06:43 pst
Message-Id: <8503220006.AA25632@nsc.UUCP>
Date: Thursday, 21 Mar 85 15:30:24 PST
To: ut-sally!mordor!space@seismo.ARPA

To: nsc!hplabs!hao!seismo!ut-sally!mordor!space@mit-mc
Subject: Re: info request
Newsgroups: net.space
In-Reply-To: <1146@mordor.UUCP>
Organization: Cadtec Corp., San Jose, CA
Cc: 

     Wouldn't the roche limit cause the sun (and black hole?) to
break up?  It doesn't sound stable.
     Henry III			UUCP: {nsc,csi}!cadtec!cate3
     Cadtec Corp., San Jose, CA 408 942 1535 x384

23-Mar-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #120    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 120

Today's Topics:
		    Re: Plane Change in Transfer Orbit
		      Plane Change in Transfer Orbit
			Re: Funny units in SF book
			 Free Enterprise in Space
		      Specific impulse optimization
			   re: transfer orbits
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 85 10:36:12 pst
Message-Id: <8503221836.AA07024@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: petrus!karn
Subject: Re: Plane Change in Transfer Orbit

This is very interesting. I'd like to see the details of how this is so.

Back when I was helping to plan the orbital maneuvers for AMSAT-OSCAR-10
we wanted to change a GTO as given by an Ariane (inclination 8.6 deg)
to a Molniya approximation (63 deg). I found through some reading that
for VERY large plane changes (like the one we wanted to do), the economy
of plane changes at apogee is so strong that it actually saves fuel to
boost apogee, do your change at the new apogee, then drop back down to the
desired apogee. We didn't opt for that because of the risk involved;
we easily had enough delta-vee that an overburn at perigee would have given
us earth escape velocity. We didn't want to compete with Voyager.
In addition, communication links at 100,000km+ might have become marginal,
and with a starting perigee of 200 km, additional perturbations from the
sun and moon could be serious.

Even a "normal" plane change carried its risks. I realized that if the
engine were to shut down midway through a large maneuver, the resulting
perigee would be negative. We therefore planned a two-burn "dogleg"
compromise in which the intermediate orbit would still be useful. This
turnd out lucky -- the motor overburned on the first shot due to a wiring
error in the control circuit, and failed to burn on the second shot
due to a loss of helium pressure likely caused by the unplanned temperature
excursions resulting from a collision with the launcher shortly after
separation.

We've got a usable, functional satellite, although it's been through a
few "hard knocks".

Phil

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 85 09:54:42 pst
Message-Id: <8503221754.AA06825@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!kcarroll (Kieran A. Carroll)
Subject: Plane Change in Transfer Orbit

*
   A couple of people have claimed that, when transferring from
low-earth orbit to geosynchronous orbit, it is generally advantageous to
perform any plane-change maneouvres required entirely at apogee,
and none at all at the perigee of the transfer orbit.  Well,
"I am sorry, but that turns out not to be the case..."
   If you calculate the amount of delta-v required for a LEO-to-
geosynch transfer, as a function of the amount of plane change performed
at LEO, you will find in some cases that a slight savings of delta-v
can be had by performing a small amount of plane-change at the
perigee (and most of the plane-change at the apogee) of the transfer
orbit.  I recently calculated exactly this function, while taking an
orbital dynamics course.  LEO was inclined 28.5 degrees to the equator,
and was 300 km high.  If 2.2 degrees of plane change were done in
LEO, at the time of the perigee burn, about 0.6% of the total
delta-v could be saved.  As the professor giving the course pointed
out, this saving may be small, but it's exploited quite frequently
by people launching satellites.
-- 
     Kieran A. Carroll @ U of Toronto Aerospace Institute
     {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!kcarroll

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 85 10:32:55 pst
Message-Id: <8503221832.AA06992@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: petrus!karn
Subject: Re: Funny units in SF book

The "true" units of specific impulse is force-time/mass, ie, how much
thrust can it produce for how long for a given amount of propellant. 
In metric units, this is simply newton-seconds/kg, which simplifies to
meters/sec (the exhaust velocity). However, in archaic English units
this is written as poundsforce-seconds/poundsmass, and the dissimilar
pounds units are incorrectly canceled out, leaving so-called "seconds".
Because a pound of mass corresponds to a pound of force only in a 1G
acceleration field, the earth's surface gravitational acceleration is
factored into this so-called "seconds" figure. To convert to exhaust
velocity, just multiply by 9.8 m/sec^2 or 32 ft/sec^2.

The number you really want to use is exhaust velocity, in the classic rocket
equation

delta-v = Ve * ln(mass loaded/mass dry)

I agree, metric units are the only way to go. I always feel a twinge of
embarassment every time I hear the NASA commentator use "knots",
"feet per second" and "statute miles" in the same breath during a shuttle
launch. The press kits on the Shuttle are even worse. Every measure is given
in about three or four sets of units, and many of the conversions are wrong.
You don't know which to believe unless there are enough versions to allow
majority voting.

ESA may use three languages, but at least they have their measurement
act together.

Phil

------------------------------

Date: 22 Mar 1985 14:39-PST
Sender: WARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA
Subject: Free Enterprise in Space
From: Craig E. Ward <WARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA>
To: BBoard@USC-ISIB.ARPA
Cc: Space@MIT-MC.ARPA, Aviation@MIT-MC.ARPA
Message-ID: <[USC-ISIF.ARPA]22-Mar-85 14:39:33.WARD>

On Tuesday, March 26 at 7:00 pm, the Los Angles chapter of the L5 Society
(OASIS) will be hosting a presentation by Richard Rassmussen in the Kinsey
Auditorium of the California Museum of Science and Industry.

Richard Rassmussen is the president of Space Vector Corporation, the private
firm which provided the engines for the first private space launch.  The
company is currently interested in exporting rocket technology on the
international market.

The presentation will focus on bringing the cost of transportation to Earth
orbit low enough so that private firms may launch their own payloads.

The meeting is open to the public and the admission is free.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 85 10:36:39 pst
Message-Id: <8503221836.AA07032@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: petrus!karn
Subject: Specific impulse optimization

I'd like to ask all you rocketry types out there for some help on a
practical design problem.

One of AMSAT's upcoming satellites, PACSAT (Packet radio satellite)
is planned to use a low thrust, electrically powered thruster to raise
its orbit from a low altitude, high inclination shuttle orbit to something
approximating a sun synchronous orbit (if we can go from Vandenburg)
or at least something that won't fall out of the sky in 3 months (like 800
km circular from a 57 deg Spacelab mission).

We are hoping to use anhydrous ammonia as the propellant because it gives
the best performance of all alternatives we've studied for the kind of
thruster we envision. The engine simply boils the propellant with a heater
and squirts it out the back. Thrust would be somewhere around 2 millinewtons,
while power consumption might be 50-100watts.  Part time bursts over a period
of a couple of months should be sufficient to raise the orbit to 800 km or
so.

The question arises as to what value of specific impulse we should design
the thruster for. Before you say "as high as possible", let me explain that
in a rocket where the propellant and the energy source are separate
(unlike conventional chemical combustion engines) there is a tradeoff between
the power required to develop a given amount of thrust and the propellant
mass that must be thrown overboard per unit time.  Impulse increases linearly
with the velocity that is imparted to the propellant, but the kinetic energy
increases as the square of the velocity.  The result is a linear increase
in the power needed to produce a constant amount of thrust as the exhaust
velocity (specific impulse) is increased.

An example:

The hypergolic kick motor on AO-10 developed 400 N of thrust with an exhaust
velocity of about 2770 m/sec. The kinetic energy imparted to the propellant
was therefore 400 * 2770 = 554 KW.  However, if a cesium ion engine with
an exhaust velocity of 50,000 m/sec could be developed, it would have to
impart 10 MW to its exhaust to develop the same 400N of thrust. On the
other hand, less propellant would have to be carried to achieve the same
delta-vee, so more mass would be available for a power supply.

Given weight figures for the solar panels and a time limit on reaching
altitude, there must be some optimum specific impulse that balances
electrical generation mass with propellant mass. Has anyone looked at this
general problem and done the formulas?

Phil

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 85 09:51:59 pst
Message-Id: <8503221751.AA06792@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ssc-vax!eder (Dani Eder)
Subject: re: transfer orbits

> 
> Any engine can do a plane change if it is pointed out of plane.
> I've seen the transfer orbit elements for a few PAM missions and they
> do reduce the inclination by about 3 degrees. I'm not sure why because
> it is more efficient to let the apogee motor take it out instead; perhaps
> it allows finer balance between the two stages without having to shave
> out propellant.
> 
> Phil

     When you are in orbit you have a velocity vector.  To go to a
transfer orbit you make that vector longer (increase velocity).  To
change orbit inclination you make the vector point in a different
direction.  The velocity your rocket has to provide is the difference
between your initial and final velocity vectors.  If you are already
planning to add velocity, you can add a few degrees of plane 
change for almost nothing.  This reduces the large plane change
at GEO when you circularize.

     The circularization burn is at lower velocities.  Since the
vector you are reorienting is smaller, plane change is less expensive
at GEO.  But at large angles, the cost is non-trivial.  The angles
are split so as to maximize the payload delivered by minimizing the
total velocity required.  The typical split is 2.5 degrees at perigee
and 26 degrees at apogee.  This is much clearer graphically (sigh,
no graphics terminal.)

Dani Eder/ Advanced Space Transportation, Boeing Company/
ssc-vax!eder/  

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #120
*******************

24-Mar-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #121    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 121

Today's Topics:
	  Re: oh, where, oh, where have those little stars gone?
			 Paper airplanes in space
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Return-Path: <hao!hplabs!ames!al>
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 85 18:43:24 pst
From: <hao!hplabs!ames!al@seismo.ARPA>
Message-Id: <8503230243.AA19098@HP-VENUS>
To: umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!mordor!space@seismo.ARPA
Subject: Re: oh, where, oh, where have those little stars gone?
References: <1090@mordor.UUCP>

I'd love a copy for the Mac.

Al Globus
127 Cayuga
Santa Cruz, CA. 95062
(408) 425-7038

I don't mind sending a few bucks if you indicate an amount.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Mar 85 23:43:34 pst
Message-Id: <8503240743.AA13167@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: spp3!brahms (Bradley S. Brahms)
Subject: Paper airplanes in space

[}{]
The other day, a question came to mind.  What effect 0g would have on a
paper airplane.  I am assuming that there is still air, like inside a
shuttle.  Assuming the paper airplane was designed to do loop-d-loops,
would it, or would the lack of gravity make it unstable?

			-- Brad Brahms
			   usenet: {decvax,ucbvax}!trwrb!trwspp!brahms
			   arpa:   Brahms@usc-eclc

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #121
*******************

26-Mar-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #122    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 122

Today's Topics:
		     Re: nearby stars (last message?)
	  Re: oh, where, oh, where have those little stars gone?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-Id: <8503252238.AA20416@dual.UUCP>
Date: 25 Mar 85 15:10:51 CST (Mon)
From: dual!ihnp1!whitten
To: ihnp4!drutx!ahuta!houxm!mhuxt!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!bellcore!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!
Subject: Re: nearby stars (last message?)

Bruce,

	I'd be interested in getting a copy of your star program for the
Macintosh when you have it ready.  Also the star data would be fun to
have.  I've enjoyed watching your conversations in trying to track down
the star data even though I didn't have any information to contribute.
Usenet sure allows one to tap into an amazing wealth of knowledge.

	I'll be looking forward to your Byte article.

					Tom Whitten
					AT&T Bell Laboratories
					Naperville, Illinois
					312/979-5827
					ihnp4!ihnp1!whitten

------------------------------

Return-Path: <hao!hplabs!sdcrdcf!alan@seismo.ARPA>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 85 13:34:48 pst
From: hao!hplabs!sdcrdcf!alan@seismo.ARPA (Alan Algustyniak)
Message-Id: <8503252134.AA04838@sdcrdcf.UUCP>
To: mit-mc.ARPA>!, hao!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!mordor!space<
Subject: Re: oh, where, oh, where have those little stars gone?
Newsgroups: net.space
Organization: System Development Corporation R&D, Santa Monica

Hi,

	I am interested in getting a copy of your program and start list.
I have a Tandy 2000 (IBM PC Clone).  I'd like to have a copy which runs
on the IBM PC (I can do any necessary converting myself).  Sending it to
me via net-mail is fine.  Thanks for the offer!

	sdcrdcf!alan     (Al Algustyniak)

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #122
*******************

27-Mar-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #123    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 123

Today's Topics:
		Help Wanted: Books on Orbital Mehchanics
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Mar 85 04:42:56 pst
Message-Id: <8503261242.AA20111@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: reed!todd (Todd Ellner)
Subject: Help Wanted: Books on Orbital Mehchanics

What are some good introductory books on this subject?
The discussions here have been interesting lately, and I
would like to be able to follow them better.

                         Thanks in advance,
                         Todd Ellner

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #123
*******************

28-Mar-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #124    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 124

Today's Topics:
			     Spacepac and SDI
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Mar 85 16:08:56 pst
Message-Id: <8503280008.AA01226@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: petrus!karn
Subject: Spacepac and SDI

Can anybody give me Spacepac's (the political action committee set up by
the L-5 society) stand (if any) on SDI ("Star Wars")?  I don't see it
mentioned in any of the literature I see.

They're soliciting me for funds to lobby for the space station, a most
worthwhile cause, but they won't get a dime from me if it turns out that
they're also supporting SDI in any way.

Phil

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #124
*******************

29-Mar-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #125    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 125

Today's Topics:
			     Voyager 2/Uranus
			     SDI Offensive ?
			     L5 and SPACEPAC
			Books on orbital mechanics
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Mar 85 07:45:15 pst
Message-Id: <8503281545.AA05043@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: fisher@dvinci.DEC
Sender: decwrl!johnsson
Subject: Voyager 2/Uranus


A recent "stardate" article in net.astro prompted me to start bringing
Voyager 2 back into active memory.  Back when Voyager was launched, January
1986 seemed like a totally unreal date, but now it is approaching, and sure
enough, Voyager is approaching Uranus! 

Can someone on the net tell us something about Voyager's health?  Last I
remember, its scan platform had partially jammed while passing through
Saturn's rings.  There was some speculation that a ring particle had jammed
it, although I think I remember that that idea has since been abandoned.
Has it been repaired ("Hello, Acme Spacecraft Repair?  We've got this probe
out between Saturn and Uranus..."), or a workaround found? Also, the command
receiver had lots of problems right near the beginning of the mission.  Is all
still holding together? 

And finally, the stardate article indicated that there are lots of unknowns
about things like the number and size of the moons of Uranus.  Won't they have
a significant effect on Voyager's course through the Uranus system?  Are there
figures for the probability that Voyager will remain close enough to its 
predicted course to continue on to Neptune?  (BTW, what is the date of the
Neptune encounter?)

Starting to get excited already,

Burns

	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher
	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Mar 85 15:52:41 EST
From: John Heimann <jheimann@BBNCCY.ARPA>
Subject: SDI Offensive ?
To: space@mit-mc.arpa
Cc: jheimann@BBNCCY.ARPA

	While I don't believe that SDI (aka Star Wars) would solve the problem
of nuclear defense even if it lived up to Reagan's wildest hopes, which it
almost surely will not, I suspect that research into SDI may lead to some
interesting (from a military point of view) offensive weapons.  Six years ago,
I worked in the military energy group a company whose specialty was analysis of
the "Soviet Threat." At that time, there was a good deal of interest in using
high energy lasers ("HELs" as everbody refered to them) as tactical weapons.  I
saw at least one paper that outlined a system using very large lasers on space
platforms as space-to-air defensive and space-to-surface offensive weapons.
The virtues of such a system are that it could destroy large tactical or small
strategic targets (ships, communication facilities, missle silos) "surgically"
- i.e. without damage to surrounding structures.  No blast, no radiation.  In
peacetime the platform power supply (huge solar panels or a fairly large
reactor pumping out somewhere on the order of 10^8 watts) could send usable
power to earth by defocussing the beam.  So called "surgical" strategic weapons
have great appeal in the military, since the threat of mutual assured
destruction following the use of nuclear weapons on strategic targets has
limited modern warfare to relatively small tactical engagements.  Threatening
to use nuclear weapons in response to any provocation short of nuclear attack
is like your first grade buddy threatening to hit you with a bat if you shoot
rubber bands at him again.  He probably could, but you know he isn't going to
do it, he knows he isn't going to do it, so you zip one off your finger at him
and run away laughing.  On the other hand, if he threatened to shoot you with a
paper clip, you might think twice.  Military planners have been looking for
strategic paper clips since 1954, when the hydrogen bomb made baseball bat
warfare "obsolete".  

	Since most people still believe that thermonuclear weapons have made
general war impossible, the notion of developing a completely new offensive
weapons system seems pointless to them.  Others recognize that limited war is
still possible, at least in theory, and don't like the idea of weapons systems
of limited destructiveness that could make it less painful to break the
strategic stalemate.  If these weapons are developed as part of a defensive
research program, however, the risk of public opposition is much smaller.  This
is not to say that I believe the SDI program is an offensive program in
disguise, since the offensive weapons I have mentioned above are orders of
magnitude larger than any of the defensive systems that have been discussed
publicly.  However, there is usually a very fine line betwen offensive and
defensive technology, as the framers of the ABM treaty were well aware.  I
wouldn't be surprised if offensive space weapons are already in the works, and
those who are concerned about their undermining the present nuclear peace, or
about the growth of military operations in space, should be on guard.

					John

------------------------------

Date: 29 March 1985 00:10-EST
From: Robert E. Bruccoleri <BRUC @ MIT-MC>
Subject: L5 and SPACEPAC
To: PETRUS!KARN @ MIT-MC
cc: SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS @ MIT-MC

From what I've read in the L5 News, L5 has not decided on an official
policy towards SDI, so presumably, neither has SPACEPAC. It would
be interesting to read their response to a letter just like the
one you posted in the Space Digest.

Bob Bruccoleri

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Mar 85 09:57:21 pst
From: conrad <@csnet-relay.arpa,@ucsc.CSNET (Al Conrad):conrad@ucsc.CSNET>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Books on orbital mechanics

There is a book by King-Hele, I believe it's called "The Effects of
an Atmosphere on Satelite Orbits", or something like that, which
has a great chapter titled 'Basic Theory' which very elegantly generates
the basic equations.

Al Conrad
Computer and Information Sciences
University of California at Santa Cruz
conrad@ucsc
ucbvax|ucscc|v:conrad
408-429-2370

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #125
*******************

30-Mar-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #126    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 126

Today's Topics:
			   Re: star map article
			      effect of SDI
			      Halley's Comet
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Coates <rick%iddic%tektronix.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To: space%mit-mc@tektronix.smtp
Date: Thursday, 28 Mar 85 09:45:47 PST
Subject: Re: star map article
Newsgroups: net.space
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR.

Thanks for the offer of the programs - I'd be interested.  I don't know
if it has come up yet, but if you ever do get the data base, that would be
of even greater interest.


Why don't you make some mention of USENET in the article?  I don't think that
that many people (even in the computer field) are aware of what is probably
the largest 'bulletin board' around.


Rick Coates
...!tektronix!iddic!rick

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8503291518.AA05508@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: Friday, 29 Mar 1985 07:16:10-PST
From: redford%doctor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (John Redford)
To: space@mc
Subject: effect of SDI

I don't want to get into the debate over the pros and cons of Star Wars,
because I think that everyone on this list is already familiar with them.
Personally I think that SDI is a terrible idea.  It's a tribute to the power
of the Presidency that anyone takes it seriously at all.
But instead of getting into that argument,
I would like to talk about the effect of SDI on space development.
L5 and Spacepac may already have formulated a position on SDI, but what should
that position be?  All of us want to see further scientific and commercial
activity in space.  The question is, will this vast increase in 
military space activity hinder or aid our real goals?

Let me provide one example in favor of military involvement and one against,
and then throw the argument open.  The US has an extensive research program
under way in Antarctica.  The research is expensive because of the remote 
and hostile environment.  The government pays for it partly out of a love
of basic research, but more out of a desire to keep a foothold on what might
be a valuable continent.  The bases down there are supplied and built by the
military.  The US Air Force, at considerable risk to its pilots and planes,
is what makes science possible in Antarctica.  No university or university
consortium could afford the special modifications that planes in Antarctica
need, or get pilots with the special training.

An example against the military is the Navstar or GPSS global navigation system.
This is a satellite system that permits a foot soldier to find his position
within ten meters anywhere in the world.  The military originally intended it
for civilian use as well, but when they discovered just how good it would be,
they changed the system so that only those with passwords could get its full
accuracy.  From their point of view this action was entirely justified; they
didn't want enemy soldiers to buy a $200 box from Magnavox and get the same
benefits that our own people had.  The result, though, is that something that
could be of enormous benefit to the American public has been denied to them.
Civilian needs gave way before military ones.

Now, what will SDI bring?  Will its research help civilian efforts for large
boosters and manned space stations?  Or will civilian research be restricted
because of its SDI implications?  Will we see another space shuttle screw-up,
where the shuttle was enlarged and therefore delayed by military 
requirements?  What do you folks think?

John Redford
DEC-Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 85 10:34:36 EST
From: Andrew V Royappa <avr@Purdue.ARPA>
Message-Id: <8503291534.AA12393@purdue.ARPA>
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Halley's Comet


	Well, I don't know about you, but I certainly have been
waiting a while for Halley's Comet to arrive. Shouldn't it
be here this year or the next ? Could anyone give precise
dates, and if possible info about locations to watch it from.

			Thank you,

					Andrew Royappa @ Purdue

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #126
*******************

31-Mar-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #127    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 127

Today's Topics:
		   Working in Space - suits and shells
			     Launch Date Set
			 Discovery Rolled to Pad
	     where oh where did all those messages come from
		       Re: SPACE Digest V5 #124    
			    Re: Halley's Comet
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Mar 85 08:01:45 pst
Message-Id: <8503301601.AA14856@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: hou5a!trc
Subject: Working in Space - suits and shells

Re-posting: apparently got "eaten" first time...

Space Savants:

Question:  why are space suits so bulky?  Is it primarily thermal
insulation?  Without that, it would seem reasonably easy to design 
a light-weight suit that had a sealant layer, then a tough outer 
protective layer, with joints designed so that bending them doesnt 
increase or decrease the volume of the suit (to avoid having to fight 
air pressure to move the limbs of the suit).  Suitable vacuum-proof 
materials would be needed, of course.  

One way to avoid the need for thermal insulation, and so to allow
a "work-suit", would be to build a "thermal work-shell".  This would
be a huge shell, kept at a temperature such that it radiates in the
infrared just enough to balance body infrared radiation loss.  Inside
the shell, no thermal insulation would be necessary.  Since the shell
doesnt need to be air-tight, a large hole can be left in the "top" 
for light, and for moving materials and constructs in and out.  Put 
a "diffuser" over it (perhaps floating outside the hole, in line with
the sun) to get better quality lighting - no dark shadows, and less 
intense light.  The shell would be kept at a fairly even temperature 
by some combination of reflectors and radiators.  Some gyros mounted 
outside could help keep it pointed at the sun.  Also, the even thermal
condition would help avoid problems with contracting/expanding materials
under construction - so that bolt holes line up, etc.

The shell could be a sphere or a cylinder, depending on what is easier 
to make.  As a nice touch, paint the inside of the shell to give the 
impression of just working under water - a sea bottom below, bright sky 
above, and fluorescent  glowing blue-green walls to the sides.  This, 
plus the fact that the view of space is mostly cut off, should help the 
workers psychologically.

An additional benefit of the space shell is that it makes it very 
difficult to "fall off" into space.  If one loses one's grip and 
floats away, one just waits a few minutes until one hits a wall.  
Tools are similarly caught.

Does this sound reasonable?  Been thought of long ago by Werner von Braun?
A caveman sketched it with berry juice in a cave somewhere in southern 
fjance?  Constructive criticism and knowledgeable comments are invited.
	Tom Craver	hou5a!trc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Mar 85 08:11:20 pst
Message-Id: <8503301611.AA14959@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: alice!alb
Subject: Launch Date Set

NASA today set a 12 April launch date for the Discovery
launch.  Launch time is 0904 EST.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Mar 85 08:20:45 pst
Message-Id: <8503301620.AA15060@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Discovery Rolled to Pad

The Discovery was rolled to the launch pad today in preparation
for its 12 April launch.  For nostalgiasts, launch day will be
on the fourth anniversary of the launch of STS-1.

Challenger, with Spacelab aboard, is scheduled to launch on
29 April, 12 days after Discovery lands.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Mar 85 10:58:43 pst
Message-Id: <8503301858.AA15541@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: mordor!jdb (John Bruner)
Subject: where oh where did all those messages come from

Recently there were a flood of repeated postings to "net.space"
from the SPACE mailing list via the gateway on S1-C.  Somehow
the mailers on S1-A and S1-C were unhappy with each other so
that S1-A believed that S1-C rejected the letter when in fact
S1-C had accepted it.  S1-A kept retrying, producing multiple
copies of the same thing.

I'm temporarily turning off the SPACE -> net.space portion of the
SPACE gateway.  I hate debugging "sendmail" (where I suspect the
problem is), so it may be a few days before I can get it turned
back on again.

Postings to "net.space" are still being forwarded to the SPACE
mailing list.
-- 
  John Bruner (S-1 Project, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory)
  MILNET: jdb@mordor.ARPA [jdb@s1-c]	(415) 422-0758
  UUCP: ...!ucbvax!dual!mordor!jdb 	...!decvax!decwrl!mordor!jdb

------------------------------

Date: Sat 30 Mar 85 14:46:03-PST
From: SPACE@USC-ECL.ARPA
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #124    
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA


Dear Phil,

In answer to your question on Spacepac and SDI, the official position is
that there is no position, neither for nor against. Frankly, the civilian
space program needs a lot more help than the DoD and that's why we've
focused on space station, and to a lesser extent on space
commercialization and planetary probes. There are plenty of bigger groups
to lobby for and against SDI. We see it as a military policy issue that
happens to have a strong space aspect, not something that is especially
spac-related. As to the leanings of our supporters, we have people on both
sides of the issue, and we have supported candidates on both sides of the
issue, provided thay supported civilian space efforts as well. For
example, we endorsed both Rep. George Brown (D-CA) and former astronaut
Jack Lousma (in an unsucessful Senate race), who are on opposite sides of
the SDI issue, but are otehrwise favorable to space development.

As for unofficial views within the organization's staff, we feel that a
SDI research program is reasonalbe and prudent, while differing over how
much money should be spent on such work. Decisions as to actual testing
and deployment are, however, another matter. We are not convinced that any
immediate deployment (a'la High Frontier positions) is justiofiable or
desirable.

I hope I've answered your question. Contirbutions to spacepac can be
designated to a variety of segregated funds, such as space station
lobbying, or Democratic or Republican funds, as well as the general fund.
If you have any more questions, please feeeel free to send me a message.
This reply can (should?) be passed around the nets, as I feel your
question is a common one.

                             Scott Pace
                              Director Public Affairs
                                   Spacepac

-------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Mar 85 17:32:00 pst
Message-Id: <8503310132.AA16458@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: umd5!don
Subject: Re: Halley's Comet

> From: Andrew V Royappa <avr@Purdue.ARPA>
> 
> 	Well, I don't know about you, but I certainly have been
> waiting a while for Halley's Comet to arrive. Shouldn't it
> be here this year or the next ? Could anyone give precise
> dates, and if possible info about locations to watch it from.

[]
Halley's Comet should be visible this winter until April or May 1986.
For the latest up-to-the-minute information on Halley's Comet
one may call (long-distance for most) the National Bureau of Standards/
Naval Observatory computer bulletin board (300/1200 baud, even parity) at
  (202) 653-1079  (Washington, DC)

The bulletin board contains press releases and is open to the public.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Space, the final frontier .." Final, hell! It's the ultimate frontier!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

-Chris Sylvain

  ARPA: don@umd5.ARPA
BITNET: don%umd5@umd2
 CSNET: don@umd5
  UUCP: {seismo, rlgvax, allegra, brl-bmd, nrl-css}!umcp-cs!cvl!umd5!don

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #127
*******************

01-Apr-85  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #128    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 128

Today's Topics:
	      Re: Help Wanted: Books on Orbital Mehchanics
	  Re: oh, where, oh, where have those little stars gone?
		      Re: books on orbital mechanics
		 Re: Re: Re: New orbit of Halley's comet
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Mar 85 06:06:24 pst
Message-Id: <8503311406.AA18397@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: wateng!broehl (Bernie Roehl)
Subject: Re: Help Wanted: Books on Orbital Mehchanics

<line eater bug line>

Try "Fundamentals of Astrodynamics" (sorry, don't have more info handy...
my copy's at home).  It was the text the USAF was using for a while, I
believe.  You can probably track it down through "Books in Print".
				--Bernie Roehl

-- 
        -Bernie Roehl    (University of Waterloo)
	...decvax!watmath!wateng!broehl

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Mar 85 06:00:21 pst
Message-Id: <8503311400.AA18327@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: petersen@ucbvax.ARPA (David A. Petersen)
Subject: Re: oh, where, oh, where have those little stars gone?

>	sdcrdcf!alan     (Al Algustyniak)

Why did this message get sent five times?

------------------------------

Date: 1 Apr 85 00:12:00 PST
From: WOO IL LEE <lee@su-star>
Subject: Re: books on orbital mechanics
To: space%mit-mc <space%mit-mc@score>
Reply-To: WOO IL LEE <lee@su-star>


	I suggest you have a look at FUNDAMENTALS OF ASTRODYNAMICS by
Bate, Mueller and White. It has reasonably good (and compact) chapters
on elementary orbital mechanics, orbital maneuvers and interplanetary
trajectories. Reflecting the author's background (they are or were
faculty at the Air Force Academy) it has intriguiging material on orbit
determination from ground observation, prediction of future position,
interception and ballistic missile trajectories.
	And best of all, it's a Dover paperback, which means it costs
only a fraction of most other such books, should you want to add it to
your library.

	However, if you're more interested in a short introduction to
to the estimation of the vehicle delta vee requirements for a given 
mission, you might want to look at Chap. 5 ("Flight Performance") of
Sutton and Ross' classic ROCKET PROPULSION ELEMENTS.

	An excellent textbook and reference book has been published by
Delft Univ. Press, but I can't remember its title right now. Quite
complete and goes in depth but an order of magnitude more expensive
than the Dover book (when you're on a grad student's budget...)
			
					Emilio P. Calius
					Stanford Univ.
------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Apr 85 00:27:32 pst
Message-Id: <8504010827.AA21609@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utastro!nather (Ed Nather)
Subject: Re: Re: Re: New orbit of Halley's comet

The McDonald data, now reduced, agree with data from both Hawaii & Hale;
however, the Flagstaff data, with somewhat larger errors, still suggest
it can miss by a fair margin.  There is always a small but finite chance
some fault-line might be triggered into an earthquake, but no worse than that.

In the event of a grazing encounter with our atmosphere (still *very* 
subject to measurement error) artificial cyclonic activity could become
a serious problem but we don't know how to model that.  Impact is considered
highly unlikely in any event.  What is of far greater astronomical interest,
of course, is what caused the huge orbital perturbation in the first place. If,
as Burbidge suggested, it was caused by Nemesis, then Halley cannot be the
x-ray source found nearby -- it just is not massive enough to be a black hole.

If the data in hand can be refined (and new data obtained in a few weeks),
then we can say, with far greater assurance, whether Halley will pass on the
sunward side or not -- the spectroscopists hope so, naturally.  We *do* know
all observatories have been alerted to either possibility and are making their
plans accordingly.

Regardless of which side it passes on, it will be a spectacular show, but
its orbital inclination and high closing velocity give our instrumentalists a 
lot less time than we had hoped.  Even so, we expect we can have, at worst,
1 or 2 new daylight photometers ready to go.
:%s/^./& /
-- 
Ed Nather
Astronony Dept, U of Texas @ Austin
{allegra,ihnp4}!{noao,ut-sally}!utastro!nather

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #128
*******************

02-Apr-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #129    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 129

Today's Topics:
			 paper airplanes in space
			Mock Countdown Successful
		   Re: Voyager 2/Uranus and spacesuits
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Apr 85 12:07:38 est
From: Paul Anderson <anderson@nrl-css>
Message-Id: <8504011707.AA06504@nrl-css>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: paper airplanes in space

A few Digests ago, somebody poses the question as to what would happen
to the flight of paper airplanes in non-gravity environments.

I would like to recommend that when the Space Shuttle goes up next week,
that Sen. Jake Garn take up a few sheets of paper (excess bureaucratic
regulations, preferably) and try it out inside the Shuttle.  If possible,
somebody might even try flying them outside the ship while taking a
space walk.  Who knows? Maybe we will find out some interesting
information, such as:

  1.  The true aeronautic qualities of various shapes of airfoils in
      a weightless environment

  2.  The different qualities of the same airfoil shape with different
      thicknesses of paper

  3.  An easier, simpler, and cheaper method of shooting down enemy
      satellites and missiles (hit them with bureaucratic regulations,
      literally!)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Apr 85 19:52:19 pst
Message-Id: <8504020352.AA03276@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Mock Countdown Successful

The crew of the Discovery today performed a flawless mock countdown in
preparation for the 12 April launch.  The simulated liftoff came at 0800
EST.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Apr 85 22:26:14 pst
Message-Id: <8504020626.AA03736@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Re: Voyager 2/Uranus and spacesuits

> Can someone on the net tell us something about Voyager's health?

I am surprised no one from jpl-vlsi answered this one.  I just spoke to old
friends on the project[just for the Net].  They describe Voyager as creaking
along.  The major damage [which is difficult to access, by the way] is due
to radiation.  They are not certain of the degree, and this is a major problem.
Part has to do with the electronics [avionics?], computer memories, the optics
on some instruments have some damage [lenses are somewhat tinted (but you
won't notice this on images), etc.].
There were communications problems early in the mission, but the initial note
covered this.  Several other systems are working on backup mode, etc.

On Space suits, a different posting.  We have a couple here.  The typical
suit here has about 20 layers of fabric each for different purposes: thermal,
chemical reactivity (teflon in this case), pressure, etc.  They are thinking
about more advanced suits [not here] but the newer generation of non-custom
suits has to get more flying time before new designs get considered and
bugs get shaken out of the current designs.

Personal note: my casts are off and replaced with braces on my arm and leg.

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,vortex}!ames!aurora!eugene
  emiya@ames-vmsb.ARPA

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #129
*******************

03-Apr-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #130    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 130

Today's Topics:
			      Lofstrom loops
			      star catalogue
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-Id: <8504021834.AA01140@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: Tuesday,  2 Apr 1985 10:25:27-PST
From: redford%doctor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (John Redford)
To: space@mc
Subject: Lofstrom loops

I just finished reading "Heechee Rendezvous" by Frederick Pohl.  It's a
science fiction novel, but it mentions someone that used to be on this
list. Keith Lofstrom, are you out there?  Lofstrom had a really clever
scheme for lofting things into orbit.  If you take a cable and get it
moving at orbital velocities, it will actually lift itself up off the
ground.  The 'centrifugal' force of the cable will counteract that of
gravity, and the cable will go into a sort of mini-orbit.  If the cable is
tied into a loop, and you have turn-arounds at the two ends of the loop,
then the middle of the cable can rise up to low earth orbit heights.  A
payload is attached to the cable with magnets (not physically touching, of
course) and whooshed up into space. Pohl calls them Lofstrom loops, and in
his novel they are the main means of getting into space.  They sound much
more practical than orbital towers because they don't need to support
22,000 miles of their own weight. However, they still have the tower
advantage of not needing reaction mass to get up into orbit. Lofstrom
described them in an article in Analog a couple of years ago, and
mentioned that he was working on a demo system.  Does anyone out there
know what became of it?  It sounds like a great idea, even if there are
concerns about what happens if the cable breaks.

John Redford

------------------------------

From: <bang!crash!bwebster@Nosc>
Message-Id: <8504030656.AA23041@cod.ARPA>
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 85 20:16:43 PST
To: bang!ccohesh@berkeley
Subject: star catalogue
Cc: bang!space@mit-mc

Hesh -
  many thanks, but the Yale Catalog of Bright Stars contains very *few*
of the 200+ stars closest to earth (maybe a dozen or so).  This is because
most of the stars close to earth are dim.  I've already tracked down a 
number of sources; I appreciate your time and effort.
				..bruce..
				Bruce Webster/BYTE Magazine
				bang!crash!bwebster@nosc
				{ihnp4 | sdcsvax!bang}!crash!bwebster
P.S.  For the rest of you:  haven't forgotten you; I'll try to get the
article out ASAP.  bfw.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #130
*******************

04-Apr-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #131    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 131

Today's Topics:
	  Re: oh, where, oh, where have those little stars gone?
		 Re: Re: Re: New orbit of Halley's comet
			   Re: SDI Offensive ?
			     Re: Comet Halley
	Re: Re: oh, where, oh, where have those little stars gone?
			    Re: effect of SDI
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 85 07:42:01 pst
Message-Id: <8504031542.AA02356@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ssc-vax!atst (Tom Pace)
Subject: Re: oh, where, oh, where have those little stars gone?

> 
> 	sdcrdcf!alan     (Al Algustyniak)

15 copies of this message arrived at this site on 4/1/85.  Will someone
please fix!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 85 17:13:55 cst
From: Henry F Turner <turner%lsu.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.csnet, utastro!nather@lsu.CSNET
Subject: Re: Re: Re: New orbit of Halley's comet

	We didn't see the original article, if there was one.  I feel like
a fool responding to what I suspect is an April Fools joke but, what the hell,
what IS this about?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 85 17:35:05 pst
Message-Id: <8504040135.AA01057@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: SDI Offensive ?

> ...I
> wouldn't be surprised if offensive space weapons are already in the works, and
> those who are concerned about their undermining the present nuclear peace, or
> about the growth of military operations in space, should be on guard.

I hate to tell you this, but offensive space weapons already exist.  They
are called "ballistic missiles", and they spend all but the first few
seconds and the last few seconds of their *working* lives in space.
They're dangerous, and should be banned.  A bit late for that, though...
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 85 17:36:34 pst
Message-Id: <8504040136.AA01078@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: drusd!phl
Subject: Re: Comet Halley


>Well, I don't know about you, but I certainly have been
>waiting a while for Halley's Comet to arrive. Shouldn't it
>be here this year or the next ? Could anyone give precise
>dates, and if possible info about locations to watch it from.
>Andrew Royappa @ Purdue



  	COMET HALLEY TIMETABLE (Thanks to: Orion Telescope Center)

OCT82	First observatory photo at one billion miles from earth.

NOV84	First observatory visual observation.

AUG85	First expected sighting through larger amateur scopes at new moon.

SEP85	Well placed for moderately large amateur scopes.

OCT85	Within range of smaller scopes and large binoculars.  Tail partially
	visible through larger amateur scopes.

NOV85	Visible all night with scopes and binoculars.  First likely appearance
	of tail with smaller instruments.

DEC85	First expected naked-eye observations.  Wide field scopes should show
	tail about 4X the diameter of the full moon.

JAN86	Comet disappears behind sun toward end of month.

FEB86	Tail reappears above morning horizon towards end of month.

MAR86	Bright head and long tail rises above horizon.

APR86	Best month for naked-eye viewing.  Comet will be low in the south for
	viewers in the northern hemisphere.  Pick a remote, dark location for
	viewing.

MAY86	Head becomes largest as tail shrinks to narrow line. Invisible to naked-
	eye viewers by end of month.

AUG86	Visible only with large amateur instruments.

Add seventy-six years and try again. |-)

- Phil

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 85 17:47:37 pst
Message-Id: <8504040147.AA01207@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: umd5!don
Subject: Re: Re: oh, where, oh, where have those little stars gone?

> From: hao!hplabs!sdcrdcf!alan@seismo.ARPA (Alan Algustyniak)
> 	I am interested in getting a copy of your program and start list.
> 	sdcrdcf!alan     (Al Algustyniak)

[]
This is a flame of sorts ... I would post it in net.flame, but I really
think that something is wrong here. THIS SITE HAS RECEIVED A TOTAL OF ABOUT
35 REPEATS OF THE ABOVE POSTING !! We received 20 in one day ! Enough is
enough. Please someone tell us all -- is there some terrible problem here,
or is Alan posting the message over and over ??


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Space, the final frontier .." Final, hell! It's the frontier of frontiers !!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-==- IDIC -==-                                           (Thanks Bob!)

SPOKEN: Chris Sylvain
  ARPA: don@umd5.ARPA
BITNET: don%umd5@umd2
 CSNET: don@umd5
  UUCP: {seismo, rlgvax, allegra, brl-bmd, nrl-css}!umcp-cs!cvl!umd5!don

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 85 19:38:47 pst
Message-Id: <8504040338.AA01697@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: faron!wdr (William D. Ricker)
Subject: Re: effect of SDI

>From: redford%doctor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (John Redford)

>Let me provide one example in favor of military involvement and one against,
>and then throw the argument open.
 . . .

>An example against the military is the Navstar or GPS global navigation system.
>This is a satellite system that permits a foot soldier to find his position
>within ten meters anywhere in the world.  The military originally intended it
>for civilian use as well, but when they discovered just how good it would be,
>they changed the system so that only those with passwords could get its full
>accuracy.  From their point of view this action was entirely justified; they
>didn't want enemy soldiers to buy a $200 box from Magnavox and get the same
>benefits that our own people had.  The result, though, is that something that
>could be of enormous benefit to the American public has been denied to them.
 ***** ** ** ******** *******
>Civilian needs gave way before military ones.

John,

At least they're making a lower accuracy available to the public.  That
is revolutionarily open-minded for the military to begin with.
KAL-007 could have benefited from the
civilian-grade NAVSTAR receiver (assuming they weren't there
intentionally...).  I don't think a $200 receiver tied to a $1000
computer which translates Lat-Lon into street addresses qualifies as
"enormous benefit".  Could you explain to me why the American Public
needs military accuracy?

I wouldn't use 10m [your figure] GPS for landing an air-craft if I had
it.  I'm not sure what I'd use that granularity for; it won't tell me
which side of the street I'm on, or which way to the nearest foxhole,
but is much finer grain than I need to know which way is Cambridge, and
which sector of the map I'm on.  (If the map has features smaller than
10m, I'd ***** well better be able to figure out which one I'm on.)

In short, I don't see how limiting civilian use of GPS to lower resolution
(does anyone have figures for both modes they can publish?) has
cut off any potential uses THAT SERIOUSLY AFFECT THE PUBLIC GOOD.
I will agree, hypothetically, that to deny all GPS access would have
been very dog-in-the-manger, but they compromised.

Near as I can tell, we don't even HEAR about the technologies they're
really depriving us of.
-- 

  William Ricker
  wdr@faron.UUCP						(UUCP)
  decvax!genrad!linus!faron!wdr					(UUCP)
 {allegra,ihnp4,utzoo,philabs,uw-beaver}!linus!faron!wdr	(UUCP)

Opinions are my own and not necessarily anyone elses.  Likewise the "facts".

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #131
*******************

05-Apr-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #132    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 132

Today's Topics:
				 Geostar
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1985  11:16 EST
Message-ID: <SUTHERLAND.12100482743.BABYL@TL-20A.ARPA>
From: Dean Sutherland <Sutherland@TL-20A.ARPA>
To:   Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Geostar

Some months ago I heard about Geostar (O'Neill's global positioning system
company).  Does anyone know anything about them?  Are they still in business?

Dean F. Sutherland
sutherland@tartan

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #132
*******************

06-Apr-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #133    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 133

Today's Topics:
			      Hail Columbia!
			       re: Geostar
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Apr 85 05:46 PST
From: TERRY%LAJ.SAINET.MFENET@LLL-MFE.ARPA
Subject: Hail Columbia!
To: SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS@MIT-MC.ARPA

Does anyone out there know why Columbia has been flying so little of late?
I should have checked this out first, but if my memory is approximately
correct, Columbia was laid off for over a year after taking Spacelab up
over a year and a half ago, and has flown only one mission since then.

Challenger and Discovery have been getting all the work; and now I see
that Challenger is taking up the Spacelab this time...

Terry

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8504051402.AA20424@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: Friday,  5 Apr 1985 05:54:15-PST
From: redford%doctor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (John Redford)
To: space@mc
Subject: re: Geostar

The last I heard of O'Neill's satellite navigation system was when they went
before the FCC asking for 100 MHz of spectrum space somewhere. A hundred
megahertz is a lot, and I haven't heard if the FCC gave it to them.  They have
also been stirring up trouble at the FAA.  The FAA has an elaborate guidance
system plan that they will soon start putting in place, and many people are
grumbling that they ought to skip all this expensive ground stuff and go
straight to satellites.  By the way, Geostar is not a global positioning
system; it's only intended for North America.  It requires having several
satellites in Clarke orbits watching one part of the globe for signals from
airplane transmitters.

John Redford 

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #133
*******************

13-Apr-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #134    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 134

Today's Topics:
			 Bboard activity; lack of
			     SDI offensive?!?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri,12 Apr 85 03:24:58 EST
From: Christopher C. Stacy <CSTACY@MIT-MC>
To: SPACE-TEST@MIT-MC
Message-ID: <[MIT-MC].452536.850412.CSTACY>

Test 1.

------------------------------

Date: Friday, 12 Apr 1985 08:46-EST
From: nsc@Mitre-Bedford
To: space@mit-mc
Cc: nsc@Mitre-Bedford
Subject: Bboard activity; lack of

I haven't seen a SPACE Digest in days. Did I get unplugged? Is this a statement
about military in space???

Naval Space Command
nsc at Mitre-Bedford

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Apr 85 11:17:00 mst
From: jlg@LANL.ARPA (Jim Giles)
Message-Id: <8504121817.AA14163@b.ARPA>
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: SDI offensive?!?

>         While I don't believe that SDI (aka Star Wars) would solve the
> problem of nuclear defense even if it lived up to Reagan's wildest hopes,
> which it almost surely will not, I suspect that research into SDI may lead
> to some interesting (from a military point of view) offensive weapons.  Six
> years ago, I worked in the military energy group a company whose specialty
> was analysis of the "Soviet Threat." At that time, there was a good deal of
> interest in using high energy lasers ("HELs" as everbody refered to them)
> as tactical weapons.  I saw at least one paper that outlined a system using
> very large lasers on space platforms as space-to-air defensive and space-
> to-surface offensive weapons.  The virtues of such a system are that it
> could destroy large tactical or small strategic targets (ships,
> communication facilities, missle silos) "surgically" - i.e. without damage
> to surrounding structures.  No blast, no radiation.

The above paragraph is self contradictory.  If the SDI stuff is powerful
and accurate enough to 'surgically' destroy ships, aircraft, or missile
silos, then it would be more than adequate to live up to "Reagan's wildest
hopes" - or at least the hopes of most proponents.  On the other hand, if
SDI doesn't work for its stated mission, it clearly won't be able to hit
small, moving, or shielded ground and air targets either.  In fact, since
the goals of SDI don't include hitting ground or air targets, the proposed
systems are not designed to penetrate atmosphere at all.

If you don't think SDI will work then you needn't worry about offensive
weapons of this type either.  Even the assumption that SDI will work
doesn't imply that offensive weapons are possible since there is still the
atmosphere to contend with.

J. Giles

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #134
*******************

16-Apr-85  1105	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #135    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 135

Today's Topics:
		       Re: SPACE Digest V5 #124    
			     Shuttle TV info
			 Where has Columbia gone
			  Some shuttle questions
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat 13 Apr 85 20:16:02-PST
From: Rand Simberg <SIMBERG@USC-ECL.ARPA>
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #124    
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA, SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: SIMBERG@USC-ECL.ARPA


-------

------------------------------

To: space@mit-mc
cc: iglesias@uci-icsa
Subject: Shuttle TV info
Date: 15 Apr 85 08:09:36 PST (Mon)
From: iglesias@uci-icsa

Can someone tell me the sattelite that the shuttle TV is rebroadcast on?
We're getting cable in our area and I want to see if the cable company
will carry it.  Thanks.

Mike Iglesias
University of California, Irvine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 85 15:25:52 pst
From: Chuck Collins <cpc@AMES-NAS.ARPA>
Message-Id: <8504152325.AA07067@amelia.ARPA>
To: SPACE@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Where has Columbia gone


Someone posted a request recently about what has happened to the Columbia
orbiter. According to Aviation Week 4/15/85, p. 21, it is being refitted
in Plamfate by Rockwell. The mods include a new nosecap (reinforced carbon-
carbon), a leeside temperature sensing pod, and alterations on the payload
bay liner.

An old shuttle mission schedule (6/25/84) had Mission 51G scheduled for
Columbia, to take place 5/30/85. Clearly this has slipped, since the refitting
is "expected to be completed by the end of June". The mission schedule then
has Columbia very active, on Missions 51I, 61A, 61C and 61E.

Chuck Collins                 cpc@ames-nas       {ihnp4,hplabs}!ames!amelia!cpc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 85 15:47:49 pst
From: Chuck Collins <cpc@AMES-NAS.ARPA>
Message-Id: <8504152347.AA07480@amelia.ARPA>
To: SPACE@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Some shuttle questions


"net.columbia" may be more appropriate for these questions, but I don't
receive it, so I'm sending them here. This latest mission has caused me
to speculate about emergencies in a mission, particularly now that we
are sending up VIPs. If a shuttle couldn't de-orbit, and was still viable,
would a rescue mission be attempted? With this particular mission, another
shuttle is close to being ready. Would they?

Could they? Once the two shuttles have made a rendezvous, do they have
facilities for moving people from one to another? The problem with the
electrical failure on the satellite on this mission has actually answered
some of my questions. Apparently the shuttle contains at least one suit
for EVAs. Are there MMUs as well, even when the mission doesn't have a
planned EVA?

When someone does go outside, is every shuttle fitted with an airlock,
or is the entire flight deck de-pressurized?

Thanks for any light people out there can shed on this.

Chuck Collins                 cpc@ames-nas       {ihnp4,hplabs}!ames!amelia!cpc

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #135
*******************

18-Apr-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #136    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 136

Today's Topics:
			     Shuttle Rescues
			   Re:  Shuttle Rescues
		      space station - two stories  
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:     Tue, 16 Apr 85 16:27:25 EST
From:     Joe Pistritto <jcp@BRL-TGR.ARPA>
To:       Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject:  Shuttle Rescues

	Every shuttle has an airlock (depressurizing the entire flight
deck would have bad effects on the materials processing experiments
stored there).  They DO drop the pressure from the nominal value
before going EVA however, (I heard discussion of the effect of this
on the pharmacutical experimeent onboard this mission).  I think it
may go from five psi to three psi or something.  The airlock is on the
lower deck (downstairs relative to the cockpit), and leads out into
the payload bay (they attach the tunnel for SpaceLab to the outside
of the airlock).  I HOPE they have the capability to dismantle this
during a SpaceLab equipped mission (perhaps the entire SpaceLab
can be depressurized and used as an airlock in an emergenct?).

	There was some discussion within NASA of placing a simple
reel-out cable in the payload bay for attachment to a rescuing
shuttle so the crew could go hand over hand to the other ship.  Crude
but effective, and it doesn'T require using an MMU (other than to
attach it to begin with, which could be done by the rescuing shuttle's
crew).

	Now that there are always a couple shuttles hanging around KSC,
I suspect that one could be launched on about 3 days notice (an in-orbit
shuttle can last at least that long, they're supposed to have a maximum
mission duration of 14 days or something like that).  You have to consider
that the ground crews would be highly motivated, and getting three shifts
a day on the problem could reduce the turn around time considerably.

						-JCP-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Apr 85 17:38:23 cst
From: Hubert Daugherty <hd@cleo.ARPA>
Message-Id: <8504172338.AA08652@cleo>
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA

Hello,

Please add me to the net list for the space sig.

hd@rice.arpa
Rice University
713 527-4035

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Apr 85 19:39:20 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8504180339.AA03321@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: jcp@BRL-TGR.ARPA, Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Re:  Shuttle Rescues
Cc: 

	I presume that NASA has pressure suits (space suits) aboard for the
entire crew on each flight.

------------------------------

Date: 17 Apr 85  2344 PST
From: Ron Goldman <ARG@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: space station - two stories  
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

n046  1130  15 Apr 85
BC-NASA
(Newhouse 003)
Analysis
By RANDY QUARLES
Newhouse News Service
    WASHINGTON - Congressional supporters of a proposed manned space
station sometimes worried that things were going too smoothly for
them, and a recent House action proved them right.
    By an overwhelming 369-36 tally, the House recently voted to reduce
by almost $400 million President Reagan's $7.89 billion 1986 budget
plan for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. This
would cap NASA expenditures at the current level.
    Rep. Bruce A. Morrison, D-Conn., said his freeze amendment is a
deficit-cutting measure.
    The House vote wasn't aimed directly at the space station, or any
other NASA program. The House left it up to NASA to decide how - or,
more importantly, where - to cut.
    NASA spokeswoman Barbara Selby said that the agency hasn't
''precisely'' determined what it will do if the Senate eventually
accepts the House freeze. ''We would have to go back and evaluate
it,'' said Selby.
    However, she said, ''It would have a major impact on all of NASA's
programs. We're assuming that something would come out of all of
them. ... Each pot would have to give up a little.''
    So it seems unlikely that the space station - intended to be
operational in the 1990s - would emerge intact from such a freeze.
With the space shuttle moving toward full operating capability and
the science community already complaining about a dearth of new
scientific projects, cutting either of these programs to spare the
space station budget would be difficult to justify.
    Many scientists haven't been too thrilled about the space station,
anyway, both because they question its usefulness and because they
are concerned that the overall $8 billion project will push needed
science projects out of the budget. Their opposition has been muted
due to NASA's assurances that it won't rob from science to pay for
the station.
    But any reduction in the proposed 1986 space station budget as it
now stands is likely to be felt keenly, because Reagan himself
already has trimmed $50 million from the agency's original $280
million space station request.
    According to various estimates, the administration's cut alone added
anywhere from three months to a year to development plans. In 1984,
the administration anticipated space station deployment in the early
1990s. But this year the talk has shifted to a mid-1990s operational
date.
    The House action could hurt NASA even more. The budget authorization
freeze is a spending ceiling. When the actual appropriations are
approved, NASA could end up with even less funding.
    In the Senate, the NASA authorizing subcommittee recently wrapped up
its own budget hearings and has not yet set a date for ''marking up''
a bill. A subcommittee aide said that while he had heard no talk thus
far among the panel's members about a possible freeze, the one-sided
House action could carry a lot of weight with the senators.
    Although the space station and other programs are expected to be
pinched, one of the freeze's major casualties could be a plan to keep
space shuttle production lines open for another year by spending an
extra $45 million on ''structural spares.''
    The House Science and Technology Committee, unconvinced by the
administration's argument that only four shuttle orbiters are needed,
shifted money around in Reagan's original budget request to provide
the $45 million. If shuttle production lines close, committee members
said, the cost of a fifth orbiter would skyrocket.
BJ END QUARLES
(DISTRIBUTED BY THE NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE)
    

n098  1905  16 Apr 85
AM-SPACESTATION
By THOMAS C. HAYES
c.1985 N.Y. Times News Service
    LOS ANGELES - The National Aeronautics and Space Administration has
put in place the final pieces of the first part of an $8 billion
program for a manned station in space by awarding two $27 million
design contracts.
    The contracts were awarded Monday to the McDonnell Douglas Corp. and
the Rockwell International Corp. Jeff Fister, a McDonnell Douglas
spokesman, said the two companies would be among those competing for
a $3 billion contract from the space agency, scheduled to be awarded
in early 1987, to build the basic structure of the 400-foot-long
space station.
    The space agency said Tuesday that the Canadian government had
appropriated $8.8 million for the first year of its participation in
a study of a construction and servicing system for the space station.
    An agreement between the space agency and the Canadian government
calls for a sharing of information on the skace station for the next
two years. Similar agreements are expected to be announced with a
group of European nations in late April and with the Japanese
government on May 9 in Tokyo, according to the space agency.
    The contracts awarded Monday call for McDonnell Douglas and Rockwell
to design the basic framework of the space station, two manned
modules outfitted as the crew's living quarters, robot arms for
manipulating spacecraft and equipment and docking facilities for the
space shuttle.
    Construction of the space station is expected to take from six
months to a year and as many as eight trips by the space shuttle.
    ''The space station really needs to be thought about as a national
laboratory or research center,'' said Robert F. Thompson, a vice
president at McDonnell Douglas and the former manager of the NASA's
space shuttle program.
    McDonnell Douglas and Rockwell said they had put together teams of
about 200 people to do the preliminary design work for the contracts
awarded.
    The major subcontractors working with McDonnell Douglas include the
International Business Machines Corp., for computer and information
management on the space station; the RCA Corp. for communications and
tracking capability, and Honeywell Inc. for stabilization and
automatic controls.
    Rockwell's associates include the Grumman Corp., the Sperry Corp.,
the Harris Corp., Intermetrics Inc. and SRI International.
    Mark Hess, a NASA spokesman, said the space agency hoped to attract
several business customers for the space station, for both
experiments and production in such areas as pharmaceuticals and
semiconductors.
    Thompson said that McDonnell Douglas has been working on a process
for eight years to separate and purify proetins and hormones in
gravity-free conditions. The company is working with Johnson &
Johnson to identify pharmaceuticals that could be produced
efficiently on the space station.
    ''The station offers an opportunity to generate these types of
materials in a way that is not possible in the same quanities and
purities that would make it a practical business here on earth,'' he
said.
    

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #136
*******************

19-Apr-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #137    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 137

Today's Topics:
			     Apollo 13 <RFI>
			   Re:  Shuttle Rescues
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 18-Apr-85 10:09 PST
From: William Daul - Augmentation Systems - McDnD  <WBD.TYM@OFFICE-2.ARPA>
Subject: Apollo 13 <RFI>
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.arpa
Message-ID: <TYM-WBD-6R78E@OFFICE-2.ARPA>

What is the best book on the Apollo 13 flight?  Today is the anniversary of the
return of Apollo 13 to earth.  I heard it was quite a flight after the oxygen 
tank blew up.

Thanks,  --Bi//

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Apr 85 15:14:03 pst
From: David Smith <dsmith%hplabs.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
Message-Id: <8504182314.AA04157@HP-MARS>
To: Space-Enthusiasts@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re:  Shuttle Rescues
Source-Info:  From (or Sender) name not authenticated.

>                 They DO drop the pressure from the nominal value
> before going EVA however, (I heard discussion of the effect of this
> on the pharmacutical experimeent onboard this mission).  I think it
> may go from five psi to three psi or something.  

The shuttle uses a sealevel N2-O2 mix.  The suits use 5 psi O2.
NASA is talking about developing an 8 psi suit, to get rid of the
prebreathing requirement for avoiding the bends.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #137
*******************

23-Apr-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #138    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 138

Today's Topics:
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #137
			   Apollo 13 etc. book
			   RE SDI Offensive?!?
			     Cooked in space
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Apr 85 10:05 EST
From: kyle.wbst@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #137
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: kyle.wbst@Xerox.ARPA

re:"What is the best book on the Apollo 13 flight?  Today is the
anniversary of the return of Apollo 13 to earth.  I heard it was quite a
flight after the oxygen 
tank blew up..."
----------

As I recall, Aviation Week & Space Technology had excellent photos and
text in issues around that time. You might check those out in a library.

------------------------------

From: pavel.pa@Xerox.ARPA
Date: 19 Apr 85 12:00:21 PST
Subject: Apollo 13 etc. book
To: wbd.tym@office-2.ARPA
cc: Space-Enthusiasts@mit-mc.ARPA

My favorite book on just about any part of the American space efforts
before the Suhttle is a huge tome entitled ``The History of Manned Space
Flight'' by David Baker, Ph.D., published by Crown Publishers.  It's 544
pages of in-depth text and pictures from ballistic rockets to the Skylab
missions.  As I said, it's a very big book, about 10 x 14 inches by
1-1/2 inches thick.  Very nice.

	Pavel

PS- It's ISBN 0-517-54377-X and lists for $35.00, though I got it for
$19.50 on sale...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Apr 85 17:02:17 EST
From: John Heimann <jheimann@BBNCCS.ARPA>
Subject: RE SDI Offensive?!?
To: jlg@lanl.arpa
Cc: space@mit-mc.arpa

	There is an obvious answer to your statement that

>If the SDI stuff is powerful and accurate enough to 'surgically' destroy
>ships, aircraft, or missle silos, then it would be more than adequate to live
>up to "Reagan's wildest hopes" [of building an effective missle defense].

namely, that strategic targets sit still, and can be shot at one at a time.
The most serious problem facing SDI is that of C**3, as the military folks say,
which is command, control and communications to you and me.  An effective
defensive system will have to intercept as many as a thousand missles within
seconds, or ten thousand warheads within minutes, depending on whether or not
the system is designed to intercept in the boost or the terminal launch phase.
The targets are small - a fraction of a square meter for a warhead, and move at
speeds in excess of 5000 meters per second.  Slightly more difficult to hit
than a 100 square meter silo that moves at perhaps 10^-3 meter per year,
especially when one considers that the warhead is accompanied by several
thousand other warheads, decoys, radar-confusing metallic chaff, etc.  The
degree of coordination required for SDI is so obviously different from that for
an offensive system that it would be an affront to the reader's intelligence to
describe it further.  It is worth pointing out however that a defensive system
must intercept nearly all of its targets to be effective, since only one
warhead is sufficient to destroy a city (perhaps even a silo if we believe
claimed CEP's and kill probabilities for modern warheads).  The system could be
99.9% effective, but the one out of a thousand warheads that got through would
be so damaging that a 99.9% effective system would be a failure.  On the other
hand, an offensive system is a success if it destroys any targets at all.

								John

------------------------------

From: crash!bblue@SDCSVAX.ARPA
Message-Id: <8504230413.AA14340@sdcsvax.ARPA>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 85 16:31:30 PST
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Cooked in space

In the TV mini-series "Space", the last episode showed how the astronauts
could be "cooked" by a solar flare.  Are the facts close and is this problem
a real threat?  If it is possible, how are the astronauts protected?

--Bill Blue	crash!bblue@ucsd

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #138
*******************

24-Apr-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #139    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 139

Today's Topics:
			    Re: shuttle rescue
			      Re: Apollo 13
		       termination of subscription
			  Sagan attacks station
			 Re: RE SDI Offensive?!?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 22 Apr 85 12:36 EST
From:  Chris Jones <CLJones@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>
Subject:  Re: shuttle rescue
To:  Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Message-ID:  <850422173610.255295@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>

I'd be surprised if a shuttle could be launched on three days' notice if
its scheduled launch was more than a week away.  And, no, there are not
space suits on board for the entire crew.  There are two suits as I
recall, and things called rescue balls (each of which holds one person)
for the rest of the crew.  It is possible therefore for an entire crew
to be transferred elsewhere (another shuttle, for instance) IF that
somewhere can get to the disabled shuttle in time.  I think the real
answer for the immediate future is:  don't be in a shuttle when it gets
disabled.  You'll die.  (Note that the disability must be more serious
than OMS failure for a shuttle to be stranded in orbit, since the RCS
supposedly has the capability to cause a long slow reentry).

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 22 Apr 85 12:37 EST
From:  Chris Jones <CLJones@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>
Subject:  Re: Apollo 13
To:  Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Message-ID:  <850422173728.018778@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>

I recall reading a book called "Thirteen:  The Flight That Failed" a
while back.  It was very good.  Unfortunately, I don't know the author,
but that's what card catalogues are for...

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8504231754.AA05981@pacific.ARPA>
Date: 23 April 1985 0952-PST (Tuesday)
From: kastan@nprdc
Reply-To: kastan@NPRDC
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Subject: termination of subscription

Sir

Due to an in house decision to eliminate 'waste and fraud' with government
equipment, I have been requested to terminate my subscription.  Thank you.

								T. E. Kastan

------------------------------

Date: 23 Apr 85 16:35:54 EST
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Sagan attacks station
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

Carl Sagan and company are showing their true colors once again in a strong
lobbying attempt against the space station funding in the Senate
Appropriations committee. One must susspect they are more interested in job
security than in the future of the human race.

Given the stand the leadership of the Planetary Society seems to be taking,
I would like to suggest that others do what I have done, and drop their
membership in that organization. I cannot see spending my money in an
organization that will use those funds to counter the day and night efforts
of myself and others. They may have a pretty magazine, but they are not a
prospace organization. They are a special interest lobby group for keeping
planetary scientists funded at any cost.

I would recommend putting your membership money into one of the REAL space
activist organizations. I happen to be biased for my own organization, the
L5 Society, but there are others that are also quite good, such as American
Astronautical Society (AAS), National Space Institute (NSI), Space Studies
Institute (SSI), American Space Foundation (ASF) and Spacepac.

Anything is better than supporting the Carl Sagan Fan Club and Personal
Lobby Fund.

If you want to take more positive action to undercut Carl's efforts, write
your own letters to Senator Donald Riegle and Senator Slade Gorton. They are
the senate appropriations minority and majority leaders.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Apr 85 16:35:01 pst
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8504230035.AA06094@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: jheimann@BBNCCS.ARPA, jlg@lanl.ARPA
Subject: Re: RE SDI Offensive?!?
Cc: space@mit-mc.ARPA


>It is worth pointing out however that a defensive system must intercept
>nearly all of its targets to be effective, since only one warhead is
>sufficient to destroy a city (perhaps even a silo if we believe claimed
>CEP's and kill probabilities for modern warheads).  The system could be
>99.9% effective, but the one out of a thousand warheads that got through
>would be so damaging that a 99.9% effective system would be a failure.  On
>the other hand, an offensive system is a success if it destroys any targets
>at all.
>								John


A 99.9% effective system would permit 7 warheads to hit the continental
United States.  The worst disaster in our history?  Certainly.  A knockout
blow?  No way.  Unacceptable damage in wartime?  You decide.  But I'll bet
that most Americans, told that in a nuclear war seven US cities or missile
silos would be destroyed, would breathe a huge sigh of relief.

						Rick

ps -- is this really a worthwhile topic for space?  R.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #139
*******************

25-Apr-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #140    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 140

Today's Topics:
	       Author of "Thirteen The Flight That Failed"
			       SDI et. al.
			     SDI OFFENSIVE??
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Apr 85 10:08:51 PDT
From: Kit Weinrichter <GQ.KIT@Forsythe>
To: SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject:  Author of "Thirteen The Flight That Failed"

Date: Wed, 24 Apr 85
From: Kit Weinrichter
Subject: "Thirteen: The Flight That Failed"
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Message-ID: GQ.KIT@Forsythe at Stanford

The Author of this book is Cooper, Henry S.F. The copyright is 1972
by Dial Press.

To:  SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS@MIT-MC

------------------------------

Date: 24 Apr 85 14:36 PST
From: Tom Perrin <tom@LOGICON.ARPA>
To: space%mit-mc@mit-multics
Cc: Tom Perrine <tom@logicon>
Subject: SDI et. al.

>It is worth pointing out however that a defensive system
>must intercept nearly all of its targets to be effective, since only one
>warhead is sufficient to destroy a city (perhaps even a silo if we believe
>claimed CEP's and kill probabilities for modern warheads).The system could be
>99.9% effective, but the one out of a thousand warheads that got through would
>be so damaging that a 99.9% effective system would be a failure.  On the other
>hand, an offensive system is a success if it destroys any targets at all.

More correctly, a (nuclear/strategic) offensive system is a F A I L U R E
if it destroys any targets, because the sole purpose of strategic
nuclear weapons is detterence. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a
suicidal fool.

More importantly, this leads to the aspect of SDI that is constantly
overlooked; SDI is intended to supply the same "product" that the
current Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD, love that acronym):
DETERRENCE.  Like offensive nuclear weapons, if the system is ever used
it is a failure (of geo-politics and/or morals of the Eastern block,
not of the system itself).

The purpose of SDI is not to provide 100% protection to every man,
woman and whatnot in the West. It is to provide a deterrent. If the East
know that a large percentage of our weaponry will survive a first strike,
they will be *much* less likely to launch it.

MAD is two people with loaded guns, each afraid of the other; hoping that
if the other fires first, they both will die.

SDI is two people with loaded guns, AND (imperfect) shields which
guarnatee that any wound will not be instantly fatal (perhaps only a
flesh wound).

However, any discussion of SDI vs. MAD borders on religion; no amount
of rhetoric is likely to change another's beliefs.

Now can we please get this discussion out of 'space' and into
'weapons-digest' where it belongs. I am *much* ^ 1e6 more interested in
the peaceful, commercial uses of space.

Tom Perrine

p.s.  I am actually *against* nuclear weapons in any form, but since
they are here; my main goal in life is to survive until I can leave the
vicinity of this slightly-crazy planet :-).  Hurry up with the
Connestoga projects! :-)

------------------------------

Date: 25 Apr 1985 03:01:36 EST
From: DOLANTP@USC-ISI.ARPA
Subject: SDI OFFENSIVE??
To:   SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc:   DOLANTP@USC-ISI.ARPA

WHILE THE 99.9% EFFECTIVENESS FIGURE FOR SDI MAY BE SUBJECT TO DEBATE,
AND MUST BE, ANY PROTECTION MUST BE BETTER THAN NONE.  AMERICANS HAVE
BEEN VERY FORTUNATE NOT TO HAVE HAD TO FIGHT MODERN WARS ON THEIR (OUR)
OWN SOIL, AND THE POPULAR CONCEPTION THAT A SINGLE NUCLEAR DETONATION
MEANS THAT THE WESTERN WORLD WILL COLLAPSE IS RIDICULOUS.
   FOR SEVERAL YEARS WE SET OFF NUCLEAR WEAPONS ON OUR OWN SOIL, LOCATED
IN THOSE GOVERNMENT RESERVES WHERE WE ONCE PLANNED TO PUT THE MX.
   AS TO THE COLLAPSE OF SOCIETY, WHILE THE PHYSICAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL
DAMAGE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WOULD BE TREMENDOUS, CONSIDER THE DAMAGE
SUSTAINED BY THE EUROPEANS IN WWII.  THE USSR HAD 70,000 (YES, 
SEVENTY THOUSAND) TOWNS AND VILLAGES DESTROYED BY THE NAZI INVADERS
(SOURCE: VOYENNAYA STRATEGIA, BY V.D. SOKOLOVSKIY).  THIS WAS THE SIDE
THAT WON!
   WHILE I DON'T LOOK FORWARD (OR EXPECT) TO A RETURN TO PAST WEAPONS
TESTING POLICY, THE FEARS ESPOUSED BY UNINFORMED "EXPERTS" IN THE FIELD
ONLY CONTRIBUTE TO HYSTERIA AND MISTRUST OF COMPETENT DECISIONMAKERS.
THIS LAST GROUP IS NOT MEANT TO INCLUDE ALL FEDERAL SPOKESMEN, OR TO
EXCLUDE THOSE OUTSIDE THE GOVERNMENT OR DOD.
   I'LL SAVE MY COMMENTS ON CARL SAGAN FOR LATER (I HAVE BILLIONS AND
BILLIONS OF THINGS TO SAY ABOUT HIM).

TOM DOLAN <DOLANTP@ISIA>

-------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #140
*******************

26-Apr-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #141    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 141

Today's Topics:
		  Need addresses for Space organizations
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #140
				Star Wars
	       Is the Planetary Soceity anti-space station?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:       Wed, 24 Apr 85 15:21:04 EST
From:       "Martin R. Lyons" <991@NJIT-EIES.MAILNET>
To:         Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject:    Need addresses for Space organizations
Message-ID: <M21.6422@NJIT-EIES.MAILNET>


     I know this has probabaly been asked a million times by now, and I
apologize to those of you who have read/answered this, but here goes...

     Does anyone have the US Mail (or better, Internet) addresses for those
space societies?

     Namely, L-5, American Astronautical Society (AAS), National Space
Institute (NSI), Space Studies Institute (SSI), American Space Foundation
(ASF), and Spacepac?

     Please reply to me personally so this doesn't clutter the digest, when I
get the responses, I will summarize and post to the list.

     As always, thanks in advance!
-----
 MAILNET: Marty@NJIT-EIES.Mailnet
 ARPA:    Marty%NJIT-EIES.Mailnet@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA
    or    @MIT-MULTICS.ARPA:Marty@NJIT-EIES.Mailnet
 USPS:    Marty Lyons, CCCC/EIES @ New Jersey Institute of Technology,
          323 High St., Newark, NJ 07102    (201) 596-2932
 "You're in the fast lane....so go fast."

------------------------------

From: Chris McMenomy <christe@rand-unix>
Message-Id: <8504252348.AA25697@rand-unix.ARPA>
Date: 25 Apr 85 15:48:41 PST (Thu)
To: Space-Enthusiasts@mit-mc
Cc: SPACE@mit-mc, christe@rand-unix
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #140


A friend of mine would like to see the Vandeburg Shuttle launch.  Has the
date been confirmed (barring disasters)?  Where is the best place to
view from?

--Christe

christe@rand-unix

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 25 Apr 85 14:22 EST
From:  Mills@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA
Subject:  Star Wars
To:  Space@MIT-MC.ARPA
Message-ID:  <850425192246.409664@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>

I have a hard time believing that many people would feel releived at the
idea of "only" seven cities being destroyed.  I would say it is a fair
quess that more than half of the U.S.  population lives in and around
these seven.  Boston, New York, D.C., Chicago, San Francisco, Los
Angeles, and Seattle.

This also ignores the fact that all of our missles hitting the Soviet
Union with no hits in the U.S.  is very likely enough to start a nuclear
winter...

John Mills

------------------------------

Message-Id: <8504260317.AA04747@decwrl.ARPA>
Date: Thursday, 25 Apr 1985 19:14:42-PST
From: redford%doctor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (John Redford)
To: space@mc, jlr%doctor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA
Subject: Is the Planetary Soceity anti-space station?

Far from being dead set against the space station, the Planetary Soceity
appears to consider it to be a necessary piece of infrastructure for future
space development.  Let me quote from Sagan's editorial on the first page
of the most recent issue of their magazine, the Planetary Report:

"Recent work commissioned by The Planetary Soceity indicates that [manned]
missions to the Moon, or the asteroids, or Mars could probably be accomplished
in another decade or two - assuming the appropriate sort of orbital 'space
station' is already in place - for less than the cost of the Apollo missions,
or equivalently, for a few percent of the estimated full deployment cost of the
proposed Strategic Defense Initiative." 

The president of the Planetary Soceity, Louis Friedman ends his article with:

"The Planetary Soceity, through its Mars Institute and International Space
Cooperation Fund, is now advocating the goal of human flight to Mars.
   We will follow up the SAIC report [a think-tank feasibility study] with
workshops to investigate how international cooperation might influence the
mission design, and we will call a conference to discuss the human exploration
of Mars. 
    Our members, by supporting these programs, will be initiating the 
long-dreamed of journey to Mars."

Sounds pretty positive to me about man in space.  There may be
disagreements about just what has priority, but everyone is pushing 
in the same direction.

John Redford
DEC-Hudson

PS The Planetary Soceity is dead-set against SDI.  

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #141
*******************

27-Apr-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #142    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 142

Today's Topics:
			      Space weapons
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Apr 1985 08:34:51-EST
From: rachiele@NADC
To: space-enthusiasts@mit-mc.arpa
Subject: Space weapons


Did anyone consider that when both sides have defence to strategic weapons,
atomic war will be conceivable (sp?)?  "Now that we can survive the retaliation,
we can win this war."
             Jim

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #142
*******************

29-Apr-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #143    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 143

Today's Topics:
				Star Wars
		  Need addresses for Space organizations
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Apr 85 22:12:36 pst
From: ckaun@aids-unix (Carl Kaun)
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Star Wars


There are areas of valid controversy concerning SDI, where only
opinion and estimation serves to guide decision.  These I think
are best discussed in another newsgroup, but I am enough struck
by a failure to use facts when they are readily available (e.g. in
a dictionary or almanac) in John Mill's recent posting to this newsgroup,
that I am compelled to respond.

> ... I would say it is a fair quess that more than half of the U.S. 
>  population lives in and around these seven.  Boston, New York, D.C.,
>  Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Seattle.

In fact, together these cities and their surrounding metropolitan 
areas contain about 34.4 million people, comprising somewhat less
than 15% of the total U.S. population of 232.6 million people.  Mr.
Mills could have gotten the total to 17+% if he had mentioned
Dallas/Fort Worth, Philadelphia, and Detroit instead of Boston,
D.C., and Seattle.  In fact, one must combine the metropolitan
areas of the 71 largest such areas in the country to total
half of the U.S. population.

Nor can one infer that seven warheads would kill this many people, since
a metropolitan area is quite extensive, and since there is no predicting
which few of the warheads, many targeted on military and other
non-civilian targets, might elude a 99.9% effective system.  (Of course,
it may also be currently argued that a 99.9% effective system is
unrealistic.)

My point is not to argue the merits of SDI.  It is to argue for 
the use of realistic facts where possible, so that we do not 
lead ourselves or others astray in carelessness.  And I do find
I am more interested in discussions about space colonization,
or even commercialization, on this newsgroup.

Carl Kaun (ckaun@aids-unix)

------------------------------

Date: Sunday, 28 Apr 1985 16:54-EDT
From: jrv@Mitre-Bedford
To: Marty%NJIT-EIES.Mailnet@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA, Marty@NJIT-EIES.Mailnet
Cc: SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject: Need addresses for Space organizations

Hare are two of them:

L5 Society, 1060 East Elm, Tucson Arizona 85719, 602-622-6351
SPACEPAC, 2801 B Ocean Park Blvd, Suite S, Santa Monica CA 90405

                                                - Jim Van Zandt

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #143
*******************

30-Apr-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #144    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 144

Today's Topics:
				Star Wars
				   SDI
		       Space Development Conference
				  Sagan
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 29 Apr 85  09:12 EDT (Mon)
From: _Bob <Carter@RUTGERS.ARPA>
To:   ckaun@aids-unix (Carl Kaun)
Cc:   space@mit-mc
Subject: Star Wars


    From: ckaun at aids-unix (Carl Kaun)

    There are areas of valid controversy concerning SDI, where only
    opinion and estimation serves to guide decision.  These I think
    are best discussed in another newsgroup, 

I emphatically agree.  There is (and has for some time been) a
discussion of this topic on ARMS-D, and I think msgs on this topic
should be directed to that list.

Judging as a follower of that discussion, this is a topic about which
their is dispute about not only the political ideas, but pretty much
every level of the technical apparatus too.  And to some extent the
people attracted to this topic (on both sides) tend to be true
believers.

So, this subject sort of tends to monopolize the digest where it
appears, with lots of long msgs from a relatively few readers.  This
excludes other topics pretty effectively.

So, without being for censorship, I urge the moderator to urge SDI
correspondents to submit to ARMS-D, not SPACE.

_B

------------------------------

Date: Mon 29 Apr 85 10:42:21-MDT
From: Peter Badovinatz <BADOVINATZ@UTAH-20.ARPA>
Subject: SDI
To: space-enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: badoVINATZ@UTAH-20.ARPA


There presently is, and has been for quite some time, an extensive discussion
of SDI and other assorted "space" weapons on the Arms-Control Digest.
Let's keep discussions of such subjects over there.  The address is:

ARMS-D@MIT-MC

Count this as a vote for keeping this group for PEACEFUL uses of space:
colonization, exploration, planetary studies etc.

Peter R Badovinatz               ARPA: badovinatz@utah-20
Univ of Utah CS Dept             UUCP: ...!utah-cs!badovin
-------

------------------------------

Date: 29 Apr 85 19:02:46 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Space Development Conference
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

The following is partial text from the town meeting which occured at the
Space Development Conference hosted by L5 and others in DC on Saturday
night. If anyone captured the rest, please send it along.

The town meeting occured on compuserve. Clarke logged in from Sri Lanka.

++++++++
(30,Arthur C. Clarke) a very pretty display of halley who we hope to see here soon now over ga
(30,MODERATOR) Thank you, Dr Clarke...
(30,MODERATOR) Dr Sheffield, I understand you have...
(30,MODERATOR) some remarks for us as well. ...
(30,MODERATOR) The floor is yours, sir! ga
(30,SDC) Hello, Arthur and audience...
(30,SDC) Wish you were here!
(30,SDC) About 1000 of us...
(30,SDC) at the Space Development Conference...
(30,SDC) sitting with me here ..
(30,SDC) are:...
(30,SDC) Dr. George Mueller,...
(30,SDC) Carolyn Cherryh...
(30,SDC) Dr. David Webb...
(30,SDC) Fred and Pip Durant...
(30,SDC) Sen. Harrison H. Schmitt...
(30,SDC) Greetings from all! ga
(30,MODERATOR) Thank you, SDC! ...
(30,MODERATOR) Would any of the guests you have introduced....
(30,MODERATOR) care to have a word? ga
(30,Arthur C. Clarke) ??
(30,MODERATOR) Dr Clarke, ga
(30,Arthur C. Clarke) fred has my video tape arrived ga
(30,SDC) ==>Fred says that video tape has arrived intact...
(30,SDC) and INTELSAT is translating it from European to Steam Radio U.S. standards. ga
(30,Arthur C. Clarke) very happy for the benefit of.. 
(30,Arthur C. Clarke) you all this is my last space lecture ga
(30,MODERATOR) We're looking forward to seeing it at NASA Langley, Dr Clarke...
(30,MODERATOR) Are there any other remarks from...
(30,MODERATOR) the SDC or Sri Lanka....
(30,MODERATOR) before we invite our panel to put their questions...
(30,MODERATOR) to our guests? ga
(30,SDC) ==>New guest, Dr. Charles Walker, astronaut from the last shuttle mission...
(30,SDC) says that he hopes that the tropical storm...
(30,MODERATOR) D
(30,SDC) he saw approachingSL from Australia has not...
(30,SDC) arrived. ga
(30,MODERATOR) Can you Confirm, Dr Clarke? ga
(30,Arthur C. Clarke) not yet i am happy to say..
(30,Arthur C. Clarke) best to geo mueller and jack schmitt et al ga
(30,Arthur C. Clarke) see qabpove ga
(30,MODERATOR) If there are no further opening comments...
(30,MODERATOR) I would like to procede to...
(30,MODERATOR) the questioning phase...
(30,MODERATOR) Our panel is signalling me they have many questions to ask! ...
(30,MODERATOR) Ready in Sri Lanka and in Washington? ga
(30,Arthur C. Clarke) yes ga
(30,SDC) OK here. ga
(30,MODERATOR) Very well...
(30,MODERATOR) Panel question: Mr. Sullivan, ga
(30,Nick Sullivan) Hello all!...
(30,Nick Sullivan) A question for either guest:...
(30,Nick Sullivan) Will living in space become commonplace...
(30,Nick Sullivan) for children being born today?...
(30,Nick Sullivan) If so, will it be like going to Australian mine country...
(30,Nick Sullivan) just to do a job -- or a real "home"? ga
(30,SDC) ACC==>ga
(30,MODERATOR) Any takers?
(30,Arthur C. Clarke) it may be almost as bad as living in nyc ga
(30,MODERATOR) (Not *that* bad.  PLEASE) ...
(30,MODERATOR) Panel question: Mr. Mace, ga
(30,Scott Mace) For Dr Clarke and Dr Sheffield...
(30,Scott Mace) Are either of you working on...
(30,Scott Mace) any fiction projects currently?  ga
(30,Arthur C. Clarke) yes but i g
+++++++

------------------------------

Date: 29 Apr 85 19:26:54 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Sagan
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

Regardless of what Sagan may have said in print, he and others are lobbying
hard at this moment to make sure the space station and not their pet
projects get the knife. I might also add that the NASA budget has just taken
a SECOND severe cut, as of Friday night; $300M in addition to the $400M
previously cut from the budget. The combined efforts of nearly ALL the other
space organizations is lobbying AGAINST his Carl's efforts.

We have raised thousands of dollars (and need many many more), mobilized
all the space organizations, are starting up the phone tree and ECOM,
notifying chapters of all organizations, have set up hundreds of direct
visits to DC offices...

Folks, this is all out war. If you want there to be any future for yourself
and your children, get off your can and DO SOMETHING RIGHT NOW!!!

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #144
*******************

01-May-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #145    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 145

Today's Topics:
			SDI defenses & 7 warheads
			SDI defenses & 7 warheads
		      Japanese-Soviet Space Program
			      attn lunatics
			      attn lunatics
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:     Tue, 30 Apr 85 15:41:32 EDT
From:     Joe Pistritto <jcp@BRL.ARPA>
To:       Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject:  SDI defenses & 7 warheads

	An interesting feature of most proposed SDI system is that
they would be most vulnerable to 'overwhelming' by massive #s of
missiles.  This would tend to indicate that warheads that did get
through would be clustered in a geographic region, possibly lessing
the 'overall' damage somewhat.  Of course, certain regions of the
country have clustered targets (such as the Northeast), which would
accentuate this effect.

	The greatest effect, of course, of an SDI is that it would
render useless (even at an effectiveness of 80% or so), any military
calculations based on destruction of specific targets, forcing the
opponent to use other means (such as cruise missiles), or to use
truly massive (exponentially massive as effectiveness is increased),
numbers of warheads to destroy known targets.

	Note that all current nuclear scenerio thinking revolvs
around destruction of specific classes of targets using specific
kinds of weapons.  SDI type defenses invalidate all that thinking.

							-JCP-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Apr 85 13:16:13 pdt
Message-Id: <8504302016.AA01550@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: @S1-A.ARPA, @MIT-MC:jcp@BRL.ARPA
Sender: mordor!daemon
Subject: SDI defenses & 7 warheads
Gateway: mordor
From: Joe Pistritto <jcp@BRL.ARPA>

	An interesting feature of most proposed SDI system is that
they would be most vulnerable to 'overwhelming' by massive #s of
missiles.  This would tend to indicate that warheads that did get
through would be clustered in a geographic region, possibly lessing
the 'overall' damage somewhat.  Of course, certain regions of the
country have clustered targets (such as the Northeast), which would
accentuate this effect.

	The greatest effect, of course, of an SDI is that it would
render useless (even at an effectiveness of 80% or so), any military
calculations based on destruction of specific targets, forcing the
opponent to use other means (such as cruise missiles), or to use
truly massive (exponentially massive as effectiveness is increased),
numbers of warheads to destroy known targets.

	Note that all current nuclear scenerio thinking revolvs
around destruction of specific classes of targets using specific
kinds of weapons.  SDI type defenses invalidate all that thinking.

							-JCP-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Apr 85 17:56:28 edt
From: glenn@ll-vlsi (Glenn Chapman)
Message-Id: <8504302156.AA03336@ll-vlsi.ARPA>
To: space@mit-mc

Subject: Japanese-Soviet Space Program

According to Aerospace Daily (Apr 29 '85) the USSR has invited Japanese
officials to visit Moscow later this year to discuss expansion of space
technology cooperation.  The Russians hinted at at the possibility of
making a Japanese astronaut a guest cosmonaut on future space flights.

After the long list of very agressive planetary probes plans the Soviets have
anounced in the past few weeks the Japanese will probably be quite interested.
This is especially true if the space station project runs into long delays as
seems quite possible with the $700 million total cuts in NASA's budget made
so far this year.
                                           Glenn Chapman

------------------------------

From: <crash!usiiden!jholt@Nosc>
Message-Id: <8505010138.AA20065@cod.ARPA>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 85 14:01:24 PDT
To: crash!noscvax!space@mit-mc
Subject: attn lunatics
Cc: jholt@Nosc

[forwarded from the InterComEx BBS (303) 367-1935 by joe holt]
 
 
WHAT'S NEW ON THE MOON?
-----------------------
 
(excerpts from a publication by Dr. Bevan M. French, NASA 
Exterestrial Materials Program)
 
   In 1969 over half a billion people witnessed the "impossible" 
coming true as the first men walked on the Moon. For the next 
three years people of different nationalities watched as one of 
the great explorations of human history was displayed.
 
   Between 1969 and 72, supported by thousands of scientists on 
Earth, 12 astronauts explored the surface of the Moon. Protected 
against the airlessness and the killing heat of the lunar 
environment, they stayed on the Moon for days and some of them 
travelled for miles across its surface in Lunar Rovers. They made 
scientific observations and set up instruments to probe the 
interior of the Moon. They collected hundreds of pounds of lunar 
rock and soil, thus beginning the first attempt to decipher the 
origin and geological history of another world from actual 
samples of its crust.
 
   The initial excitement of new success and discovery has 
passed. The TV sets no longer show astronauts moving across the 
sunlit lunar landscape. But on Earth, scientists are only now 
beginning to understand the immense treasure of new knowledge 
returned by the Apollo astronauts.
 
   The Apollo Program has left us with a large and priceless 
legacy of lunar materials and data. We now have Moon rocks 
collected from eight different places on the Moon. The six Apollo 
landings returned a collection weighing 382 kilograms (843 lbs) 
and consisting of more than 2000 samples. Two automated Soviet 
spacecraft named Luna 16 and Luna 20 returned small but important 
samples totalling about 130 grams (5 oz).
 
   Instruments placed on the moon as long ago as 1969 are still 
detecting moonquakes and meteorite impacts, measuring the Moon's 
motions and recording the heat flowing out from the inside of the 
Moon. The Apollo Program also carried out a major effort of 
photgraphing and analyzing the surface of the Moon. Cameras on 
the Apollo spacecraft obtained so many accurate photographs that 
we now have better maps of the Moon than we do of some areas of 
the Earth. Special detectors near the cameras measured the weak 
X-rays and radio activity given off by the lunar surface. From 
these measurements, we have been able to determine the chemical 
composition of about one quarter of the moon's surface, an area 
the size of the U.S. and Mexico combined. By comparing the flight 
data with analyses of returned Moon rocks, we can draw 
conclusions about the chemical composition and nature of the 
entire Moon.
 
   Thus, in less than a decade, science and the Apollo Program 
have changed our Moon from an unknown and unreachable object into 
a familiar world.
 
Is there life on the Moon?
--------------------------
   Despite careful searching, neither living organisms nor fossil 
life have been found in any lunar samples. The lunar rocks were 
so barren of life that the quarantine period for returned 
astronauts was dropped after the third Apollo landing.
 
   The Moon has no water of any kind, either free or chemically 
combined in the rocks. Water is a substance that is necessary for 
life and it is therefore unlikely that life could ever have 
originated on the Moon. Furthermore, lunar rocks contain only 
tiny amounts of the carbon and carbon compounds out of which life 
is built and most of this carbon is not native to the Moon but is 
brought to the lunar surface in meteorites and as atoms blasted 
out of the Sun.
 
What is the Moon made of?
-------------------------
   Before the first Moon rocks were collected, we could analyze 
only two types of bodies in our solar system, our own planet 
Earth and the meteorites that occasionally fall to Earth from 
outer space. Now we have learned that the Moon is chemically 
different from both of these, but it is most like the earth.
 
   The Moon is made of rock. The rock is so much like Earth 
rocks in its appearance that we can use the same terms to 
describe both. The rocks are igneous, which means that they are 
formed by the cooling of molten lava. (No sedimentary rocks like 
limestone or shale, which are deposited in water have ever been 
found on the Moon.)
 
   The dark regions (called "maria") that form the features of 
the "Man in the Moon" are low, level areas covered with layers of 
basalt lava, a rock similar to the lavas that erupt from 
terrestrial volcanoes in Hawaii, Iceland, and elsewhere. The 
light colored parts of the Moon (called "highlands") are higher, 
more rugged regions that are older than the maria. These areas 
are made up of several different kinds of rocks that cooled 
slowly deep within the Moon. Again using terrestrial terms, we 
call these rocks gabbro, norite and anorthosite.
 
   Despite these similarities, Moon rocks and Earth rocks are 
basically different and it is easy to tell them apart by 
analyzing their chemistry or examining them under a microscope. 
The most obvious difference is Moon rocks have no water at all 
while most Earth rocks contain at least a percent or two of 
water. The Moon rocks are therefore very well preserved since 
they never were able to react with water to form clay minerals or 
rust. A 3 1/2 billion year old Moon rock looks fresher than water 
bearing lava just erupted from a terrestrial volcano.
 
   Another important difference is that the Moon rocks formed 
where there was almost no free oxygen. As a result, some of the 
iron in lunar rocks was not oxidized when the lunar lavas formed 
and still occurs as small crystals of metallic iron.
 
   Because Moon rocks have never been exposed to water or oxygen, 
any contact with the Earth's atmosphere could "rust" them badly. 
For this reason, the returned Apollo samples are carefully stored 
in an atmosphere of dry nitrogen, and no more of the lunar 
material than necessary is exposed to the laboratory atmosphere 
while the samples are being analyzed.
 
   The Moon rocks are made of the same chemical elements that 
make up Earth rocks, although the proportions are different. Moon 
rocks contain more of the common elements calcium, aluminum and 
titanium than do most earth rocks. Rarer elements like hafnium 
and zirconium, which have high melting points are also more 
plentiful in lunar rock. However, other elements like sodium and 
potassium, which have low melting points are scarce in lunar 
material. Because Moon rocks are richer in high temperature 
elements and contain less low temperature elements, scientists 
believe that the materials that formed the Moon was once heated 
to much higher temperatures than material that formed the Earth.
 
   The chemical composition of the Moon also is different in 
different places. Soon after the Moon formed, various elements 
sorted themselves out to form different kinds of rock. The light 
colored highlands are rich in calcium and aluminum, while the 
dark colored maria contain less of those elements and more 
titanium, iron, and magnesium.
 
What is the inside of the Moon like?
------------------------------------
   Sensitive instruments placed on the lunar surface by the 
Apollo astronauts are still recording the tiny vibrations caused 
by meteorite impacts on the surface of the Moon and by small 
"moonquakes" deep within it. These vibrations provide the data 
from which scientists determine what the inside of the Moon is 
like.
 
   About 3000 moonquakes are detected each year. All of them are 
very weak by terrestrial standards. The average moonquake 
releases about as much energy as a firecracker, and the whole 
Moon releases less than one ten billionth of the earthquake 
energy of the Earth. The moonquakes occur about 600 to 800 
kilometers (370 to 500 mi) deep inside the Moon, much deeper than 
almost all the quakes on our own planet. Certain kinds of 
moonquakes occur at about the same time every month, suggesting 
that they are triggered by repeated tidal strains as the moon 
moves in its orbit about the Earth.
 
   A picture of the inside of the Moon has slowly been put 
together from the records of thousands of moonquakes, meteorite 
impacts, and the deliberate impacts of discarded Apollo rocket 
stages onto the Moon. The Moon is not uniform inside, but is 
divided into a series of layers just as the Earth is, although 
the layers of the Earth and Moon are different. The outermost 
part of the Moon is a crust about 60 Km (37 mi) thick, probably 
composed of calcium and aluminum rich rocks like those found in 
the highlands. Beneath this crust is a thick layer of denser rock 
(the mantle) which extends down to more than 800 Km (500 mi).
 
   The deep interior of the Moon is still unknown. The Moon may 
contain a small iron core at its center, and there is some 
evidence that the Moon may be hot and even partly molten inside.
 
   The Moon does not now have a magnetic field like the Earth's 
and so the most baffling and unexpected result of the Apollo 
program was the discovery of preserved magnetism in many of the 
old lunar rocks. One explanation is that the Moon had an ancient 
magnetic field that somehow disappeared after the old lunar rocks 
had formed.
 
   One reason we have been able to learn so much about the Moon's 
interior is that the instruments placed on the Moon by the Apollo 
astronauts have operated much longer than expected. Some of the 
instruments originally designed for a one year lifetime, have 
been operating since 1969-70. This long operation has provided 
information that we could not have obtained from shorter records.
 
   The long lifetime of the heat flow experiments set up by the 
Apollo 15 and 17 missions has made it possible to determine more 
accurately the amount of heat coming out of the Moon. This heat 
flow is a basic indicator of the termperature and composition of 
the inside of the Moon. The new value, about two thirds of the 
value calculated from earlier data, is equal to about one third 
the amount of heat now coming out of the inside of the Earth. As 
a result, we can now produce better models of what the inside of 
the Moon is like.
 
   As they probed the lunar interior, the Apollo instruments have 
provided information about the space environment near the Moon. 
For example, the sensitive devices used to detect moonquakes have 
also recorded the vibrations caused by the impacts of small 
meteorites onto the lunar surface. We now have long term records 
of how often meteorites strike the Moon, and we have learned that 
these impacts do not always occur at random. Some small 
meteorites semm to travel in groups. Several such swarms, 
composed of meteorities weighing a few pounds each struck the 
Moon in 1975. The detection of such events is giving scientists 
new ideas about the distribution of meteorites and cosmic dust in 
the solar system.
 
   The long lifetime of the Apollo instruments has also made 
several cooperative projects possible. For example, our 
instruments were still making magnetic measurements at several 
Apollo landing sites when, elsewhere on the moon, the Russians 
landed similar instruments attached to their two automated lunar 
roving vehicles (Lunokhods). By making simultaneous measurements 
and exchanging data, American and Russian scientists have not 
only provided a small example of international cooperation in 
space, but they have jointly obtained a better picture of the 
magnetic properties of the Moon and the space around it.
 
What is the Moon's surface like?
--------------------------------
Long before the Apollo Program scientists could see that the 
Moon's surface was complex. Earth based telescopes could 
distinguish the level of maria and the rugged highlands. We could 
recognize countless circular craters, rugged mountain ranges, and 
deep winding canyons or rilles.
 
   Because of the Apollo explorations, we have now learned that 
all these lunar landscapes are covered by a layer of fine broken 
up powder and rubble about 1 to 20 meters (3 to 60 ft) deep. This 
layer is usually called the "lunar soil," although it contains no 
water or organic material and it is totally different from soils 
formed on Earth by the action of wind, water, and life.
 
   The lunar soil is something entirely new to scientists for it 
could only have been formed on the surface of an airless body 
like the Moon. The soil has been built up over billions of years 
by the continuous bombardment of the unprotected Moon by large 
and small meteorites, most which would have burned up if they had 
entered the Earth's atmosphere.
 
   These meteorites form craters when they hit the Moon. Tiny 
particles of cosmic dust produce microscopic craters perhaps 
1/1000 of a millimeter (1/25000 inch) across, while the rare 
impact of a large body may blast out a crater many km or miles in 
diameter. Each of these imnpacts shatters the solid rock, 
scatters material around the crater and stirs and mixes the soil. 
As a result, the lunar soil is a well mixed sample of a large 
area of the Moon and single samples of lunar soil have yielded 
rock fragments whose source was hundreds of km from the 
collection site.
 
   However, the lunar soil is more than ground up and reworked 
lunar rock. It is the boundary layer between the Moon and outer 
space, and it absorbs the matter and energy that strikes the Moon 
from the Sun and the rest of the universe. Tiny bits of cosmic 
dust and high energy atomic particles that would be stopped high 
in the Earth's protective atmosphere rain continually onto the 
surface of the Moon.
 
 
[this was just one posting on this BBS.  if you liked this, i'll 
forward s'more (most are of this length or shorter - some, tho', 
are tremendously long, like NASA's *complete* file on Venus).  
here's a list of others:  various shuttle missions, the NOAA 
satellites, AXAF array telescope, space lab 2 & 3, IRAS IR 
satellite, possible solar systems, young astronauts, Venus 
Pioneer to view Halley's comet, AGDISP program, orbital transfer 
vehicle, orbital maneuvering vehicle, Galileo mission to Jupiter, 
review of 1984, the moon [what ya got above], Halley's comet 
(long), Mars-Viking mission (review), Venus technical data...
 
                      crash!usiiden!jholt@nosc]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Apr 85 18:44:43 pdt
Message-Id: <8505010144.AA02490@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: usiiden!jholt%Nosc
Sender: mordor!daemon
Subject: attn lunatics
Gateway: mordor
From: <crash!usiiden!jholt@Nosc.ARPA>

[forwarded from the InterComEx BBS (303) 367-1935 by joe holt]
 
 
WHAT'S NEW ON THE MOON?
-----------------------
 
(excerpts from a publication by Dr. Bevan M. French, NASA 
Exterestrial Materials Program)
 
   In 1969 over half a billion people witnessed the "impossible" 
coming true as the first men walked on the Moon. For the next 
three years people of different nationalities watched as one of 
the great explorations of human history was displayed.
 
   Between 1969 and 72, supported by thousands of scientists on 
Earth, 12 astronauts explored the surface of the Moon. Protected 
against the airlessness and the killing heat of the lunar 
environment, they stayed on the Moon for days and some of them 
travelled for miles across its surface in Lunar Rovers. They made 
scientific observations and set up instruments to probe the 
interior of the Moon. They collected hundreds of pounds of lunar 
rock and soil, thus beginning the first attempt to decipher the 
origin and geological history of another world from actual 
samples of its crust.
 
   The initial excitement of new success and discovery has 
passed. The TV sets no longer show astronauts moving across the 
sunlit lunar landscape. But on Earth, scientists are only now 
beginning to understand the immense treasure of new knowledge 
returned by the Apollo astronauts.
 
   The Apollo Program has left us with a large and priceless 
legacy of lunar materials and data. We now have Moon rocks 
collected from eight different places on the Moon. The six Apollo 
landings returned a collection weighing 382 kilograms (843 lbs) 
and consisting of more than 2000 samples. Two automated Soviet 
spacecraft named Luna 16 and Luna 20 returned small but important 
samples totalling about 130 grams (5 oz).
 
   Instruments placed on the moon as long ago as 1969 are still 
detecting moonquakes and meteorite impacts, measuring the Moon's 
motions and recording the heat flowing out from the inside of the 
Moon. The Apollo Program also carried out a major effort of 
photgraphing and analyzing the surface of the Moon. Cameras on 
the Apollo spacecraft obtained so many accurate photographs that 
we now have better maps of the Moon than we do of some areas of 
the Earth. Special detectors near the cameras measured the weak 
X-rays and radio activity given off by the lunar surface. From 
these measurements, we have been able to determine the chemical 
composition of about one quarter of the moon's surface, an area 
the size of the U.S. and Mexico combined. By comparing the flight 
data with analyses of returned Moon rocks, we can draw 
conclusions about the chemical composition and nature of the 
entire Moon.
 
   Thus, in less than a decade, science and the Apollo Program 
have changed our Moon from an unknown and unreachable object into 
a familiar world.
 
Is there life on the Moon?
--------------------------
   Despite careful searching, neither living organisms nor fossil 
life have been found in any lunar samples. The lunar rocks were 
so barren of life that the quarantine period for returned 
astronauts was dropped after the third Apollo landing.
 
   The Moon has no water of any kind, either free or chemically 
combined in the rocks. Water is a substance that is necessary for 
life and it is therefore unlikely that life could ever have 
originated on the Moon. Furthermore, lunar rocks contain only 
tiny amounts of the carbon and carbon compounds out of which life 
is built and most of this carbon is not native to the Moon but is 
brought to the lunar surface in meteorites and as atoms blasted 
out of the Sun.
 
What is the Moon made of?
-------------------------
   Before the first Moon rocks were collected, we could analyze 
only two types of bodies in our solar system, our own planet 
Earth and the meteorites that occasionally fall to Earth from 
outer space. Now we have learned that the Moon is chemically 
different from both of these, but it is most like the earth.
 
   The Moon is made of rock. The rock is so much like Earth 
rocks in its appearance that we can use the same terms to 
describe both. The rocks are igneous, which means that they are 
formed by the cooling of molten lava. (No sedimentary rocks like 
limestone or shale, which are deposited in water have ever been 
found on the Moon.)
 
   The dark regions (called "maria") that form the features of 
the "Man in the Moon" are low, level areas covered with layers of 
basalt lava, a rock similar to the lavas that erupt from 
terrestrial volcanoes in Hawaii, Iceland, and elsewhere. The 
light colored parts of the Moon (called "highlands") are higher, 
more rugged regions that are older than the maria. These areas 
are made up of several different kinds of rocks that cooled 
slowly deep within the Moon. Again using terrestrial terms, we 
call these rocks gabbro, norite and anorthosite.
 
   Despite these similarities, Moon rocks and Earth rocks are 
basically different and it is easy to tell them apart by 
analyzing their chemistry or examining them under a microscope. 
The most obvious difference is Moon rocks have no water at all 
while most Earth rocks contain at least a percent or two of 
water. The Moon rocks are therefore very well preserved since 
they never were able to react with water to form clay minerals or 
rust. A 3 1/2 billion year old Moon rock looks fresher than water 
bearing lava just erupted from a terrestrial volcano.
 
   Another important difference is that the Moon rocks formed 
where there was almost no free oxygen. As a result, some of the 
iron in lunar rocks was not oxidized when the lunar lavas formed 
and still occurs as small crystals of metallic iron.
 
   Because Moon rocks have never been exposed to water or oxygen, 
any contact with the Earth's atmosphere could "rust" them badly. 
For this reason, the returned Apollo samples are carefully stored 
in an atmosphere of dry nitrogen, and no more of the lunar 
material than necessary is exposed to the laboratory atmosphere 
while the samples are being analyzed.
 
   The Moon rocks are made of the same chemical elements that 
make up Earth rocks, although the proportions are different. Moon 
rocks contain more of the common elements calcium, aluminum and 
titanium than do most earth rocks. Rarer elements like hafnium 
and zirconium, which have high melting points are also more 
plentiful in lunar rock. However, other elements like sodium and 
potassium, which have low melting points are scarce in lunar 
material. Because Moon rocks are richer in high temperature 
elements and contain less low temperature elements, scientists 
believe that the materials that formed the Moon was once heated 
to much higher temperatures than material that formed the Earth.
 
   The chemical composition of the Moon also is different in 
different places. Soon after the Moon formed, various elements 
sorted themselves out to form different kinds of rock. The light 
colored highlands are rich in calcium and aluminum, while the 
dark colored maria contain less of those elements and more 
titanium, iron, and magnesium.
 
What is the inside of the Moon like?
------------------------------------
   Sensitive instruments placed on the lunar surface by the 
Apollo astronauts are still recording the tiny vibrations caused 
by meteorite impacts on the surface of the Moon and by small 
"moonquakes" deep within it. These vibrations provide the data 
from which scientists determine what the inside of the Moon is 
like.
 
   About 3000 moonquakes are detected each year. All of them are 
very weak by terrestrial standards. The average moonquake 
releases about as much energy as a firecracker, and the whole 
Moon releases less than one ten billionth of the earthquake 
energy of the Earth. The moonquakes occur about 600 to 800 
kilometers (370 to 500 mi) deep inside the Moon, much deeper than 
almost all the quakes on our own planet. Certain kinds of 
moonquakes occur at about the same time every month, suggesting 
that they are triggered by repeated tidal strains as the moon 
moves in its orbit about the Earth.
 
   A picture of the inside of the Moon has slowly been put 
together from the records of thousands of moonquakes, meteorite 
impacts, and the deliberate impacts of discarded Apollo rocket 
stages onto the Moon. The Moon is not uniform inside, but is 
divided into a series of layers just as the Earth is, although 
the layers of the Earth and Moon are different. The outermost 
part of the Moon is a crust about 60 Km (37 mi) thick, probably 
composed of calcium and aluminum rich rocks like those found in 
the highlands. Beneath this crust is a thick layer of denser rock 
(the mantle) which extends down to more than 800 Km (500 mi).
 
   The deep interior of the Moon is still unknown. The Moon may 
contain a small iron core at its center, and there is some 
evidence that the Moon may be hot and even partly molten inside.
 
   The Moon does not now have a magnetic field like the Earth's 
and so the most baffling and unexpected result of the Apollo 
program was the discovery of preserved magnetism in many of the 
old lunar rocks. One explanation is that the Moon had an ancient 
magnetic field that somehow disappeared after the old lunar rocks 
had formed.
 
   One reason we have been able to learn so much about the Moon's 
interior is that the instruments placed on the Moon by the Apollo 
astronauts have operated much longer than expected. Some of the 
instruments originally designed for a one year lifetime, have 
been operating since 1969-70. This long operation has provided 
information that we could not have obtained from shorter records.
 
   The long lifetime of the heat flow experiments set up by the 
Apollo 15 and 17 missions has made it possible to determine more 
accurately the amount of heat coming out of the Moon. This heat 
flow is a basic indicator of the termperature and composition of 
the inside of the Moon. The new value, about two thirds of the 
value calculated from earlier data, is equal to about one third 
the amount of heat now coming out of the inside of the Earth. As 
a result, we can now produce better models of what the inside of 
the Moon is like.
 
   As they probed the lunar interior, the Apollo instruments have 
provided information about the space environment near the Moon. 
For example, the sensitive devices used to detect moonquakes have 
also recorded the vibrations caused by the impacts of small 
meteorites onto the lunar surface. We now have long term records 
of how often meteorites strike the Moon, and we have learned that 
these impacts do not always occur at random. Some small 
meteorites semm to travel in groups. Several such swarms, 
composed of meteorities weighing a few pounds each struck the 
Moon in 1975. The detection of such events is giving scientists 
new ideas about the distribution of meteorites and cosmic dust in 
the solar system.
 
   The long lifetime of the Apollo instruments has also made 
several cooperative projects possible. For example, our 
instruments were still making magnetic measurements at several 
Apollo landing sites when, elsewhere on the moon, the Russians 
landed similar instruments attached to their two automated lunar 
roving vehicles (Lunokhods). By making simultaneous measurements 
and exchanging data, American and Russian scientists have not 
only provided a small example of international cooperation in 
space, but they have jointly obtained a better picture of the 
magnetic properties of the Moon and the space around it.
 
What is the Moon's surface like?
--------------------------------
Long before the Apollo Program scientists could see that the 
Moon's surface was complex. Earth based telescopes could 
distinguish the level of maria and the rugged highlands. We could 
recognize countless circular craters, rugged mountain ranges, and 
deep winding canyons or rilles.
 
   Because of the Apollo explorations, we have now learned that 
all these lunar landscapes are covered by a layer of fine broken 
up powder and rubble about 1 to 20 meters (3 to 60 ft) deep. This 
layer is usually called the "lunar soil," although it contains no 
water or organic material and it is totally different from soils 
formed on Earth by the action of wind, water, and life.
 
   The lunar soil is something entirely new to scientists for it 
could only have been formed on the surface of an airless body 
like the Moon. The soil has been built up over billions of years 
by the continuous bombardment of the unprotected Moon by large 
and small meteorites, most which would have burned up if they had 
entered the Earth's atmosphere.
 
   These meteorites form craters when they hit the Moon. Tiny 
particles of cosmic dust produce microscopic craters perhaps 
1/1000 of a millimeter (1/25000 inch) across, while the rare 
impact of a large body may blast out a crater many km or miles in 
diameter. Each of these imnpacts shatters the solid rock, 
scatters material around the crater and stirs and mixes the soil. 
As a result, the lunar soil is a well mixed sample of a large 
area of the Moon and single samples of lunar soil have yielded 
rock fragments whose source was hundreds of km from the 
collection site.
 
   However, the lunar soil is more than ground up and reworked 
lunar rock. It is the boundary layer between the Moon and outer 
space, and it absorbs the matter and energy that strikes the Moon 
from the Sun and the rest of the universe. Tiny bits of cosmic 
dust and high energy atomic particles that would be stopped high 
in the Earth's protective atmosphere rain continually onto the 
surface of the Moon.
 
 
[this was just one posting on this BBS.  if you liked this, i'll 
forward s'more (most are of this length or shorter - some, tho', 
are tremendously long, like NASA's *complete* file on Venus).  
here's a list of others:  various shuttle missions, the NOAA 
satellites, AXAF array telescope, space lab 2 & 3, IRAS IR 
satellite, possible solar systems, young astronauts, Venus 
Pioneer to view Halley's comet, AGDISP program, orbital transfer 
vehicle, orbital maneuvering vehicle, Galileo mission to Jupiter, 
review of 1984, the moon [what ya got above], Halley's comet 
(long), Mars-Viking mission (review), Venus technical data...
 
                      crash!usiiden!jholt@nosc]

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #145
*******************

02-May-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #146    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 146

Today's Topics:
			Re: Paper planes in orbit
		    Launch Set -- Satellites Scrubbed
			  Launch and Deployment
			    Problems on Board
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #145
			SDI and space development
			 space station in trouble
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 May 85 08:00:19 pdt
Message-Id: <8505011500.AA04615@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: Paper planes in orbit
Gateway: mordor

Eugene,

Another idea is the feasibility of a paper airplane making it through
reentry. I wonder if anybody has given thought to this as a recreation idea.
I think it would since it would have such a large surface area to weight
ratio, and that as a mechanical system is massively overdamped in terms of
stability.

So next time some one is out there on an EVA, cluth one of the paper
airplanes in a glove before leaving and let it fly.

Peter Barada
ima!pbear!peterb
ihnp4!inmet!pbear!peterb

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 May 85 07:03:57 pdt
Message-Id: <8505011403.AA04196@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: brunix!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Launch Set -- Satellites Scrubbed
Gateway: mordor

The Challenger is set to launch at noon EDT today, but
NASA scrubbed the planned deployment of two low-priority
satellites aboard the shuttle.  The satellites are parts
of Getaway Specials.  Two off-the-shelf 9-volt batteries
failed and thus prevent the satellites from being deployed
properly.  They will still go along for the ride, as it is
too late to take them off the ship.  NASA will schedule
them for another flight.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 May 85 07:25:30 pdt
Message-Id: <8505011425.AA04439@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: brunix!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Launch and Deployment
Gateway: mordor

The Challenger launched a bit over 2 minutes behind
schedule due to a momentary computer problem.  Soon
after attaining orbit, the crew succeeded in deploying
one of two getaway special satellites that NASA over
the weekend decided not to try to launch because of
possible battery problems but today decided to go ahead
with the deploy.  The first deployment was successful;
the second was not.  However, the crew was able to close
the lid over the second satellite, averting a spacewalk
to tie it shut.  Should the lid remain open upon descent,
the satellite could dislodge and damage the cargo bay.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 May 85 07:25:46 pdt
Message-Id: <8505011425.AA04446@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: brunix!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Problems on Board
Gateway: mordor

The crew of the Challenger today faced many minor
but irritating problems in space.  A urine control
experiment backfired, spewing urine over the cabin;
communications between Spacelab and the cockpit
were garbled; and the water system in the galley
failed, leaving only cold water available.

------------------------------

Date: Wed 1 May 85 11:32:57-PDT
From: Sam Hahn <H.HAHN@[36.48.0.2]>
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #145
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA

Liked the moon article.  Keep 'em coming.		-- Sam Hahn

------------------------------

Date: Wed 1 May 85 14:47:51-EDT
From: JHEIMANN@BBNA.ARPA
Subject: SDI and space development
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: jheimann@BBNA.ARPA

	As the person who started the latest series of SDI messages, I would 
like to express my agreement with those who feel that discussions of whether
or not SDI will work should be moved to some other mailing list.  My point 
in the message I first sent was that regardless if one believes SDI will work
as a defensive weapon, it is possible that SDI research lead to the deployment 
of strictly offensive space weapons.  This should be of concern to those who 
would like to see space development procede in a peaceful direction. 

	Whether we like it or not, SDI will probably get the 
bulk of US government space development money for the next decade or so.  
Civilian development of space will undoubtedly be strongly influenced by 
SDI, and not necessarily in negative ways.  Where would we have been in the 
early years of the space program if von Braun had not worked on the V2, or 
if the Air Force had not developed the Atlas and Titan boosters (both of which 
were designed as ICBM launch platforms)?  If we go ahead with SDI, then the 
space community is going to have to live with it.  Ignoring it won't help.
On the other hand, serious discussion of how SDI research efforts can be 
applied to peaceful development of space would be of great benefit.  Large 
scale space ventures, at least in the foreseeable future, will be funded by
the US government, and it is incumbent upon us as citizens (not to mention
taxpayers) to exert influence to determine how space dollars are spent.  
It would be nice if Reagan just decided that SDI wasn't important and erecting
a semi-permanent laboratory on the moon was, but for now I would suggest 
that discussions which are predicated on such a change of policy be restricted 
to the SF-LOVERS mailing list.

						John
					

-------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 May 85 08:15:28 pdt
Message-Id: <8505011515.AA04780@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ahutb!dls (d.l.skran)
Subject: space station in trouble
Gateway: mordor

Recently the House froze space station
funding at 1985 levels($150 million). Now the Senate
subcommittee on Science, Technology, & Space has voted
on April 27th in a preliminary vote to cut an additional
300 million from the already frozen budget. This will
more than likely end the space station unless YOU right
now pitch in right now to support it.

Write, call, or telegram the chairman & his second on
this committee this instant. A final vote will happen in
early may. Send a copy of your letters to your own Senators
to let them know how you feel.

Senator Slade Gorton	Senator Donald W. Reigle
United States Senate	United States Senate
Washington, D.C. 20515  <-Ditto
(202)224-2621		(202)224-4822

Urge a restoral of the full budget, and failing that,
full funding(230 million)for the space station.
Failure this year will put the station off at least two
years.

I would personally be all for a freeze IF EACH AND
EVERY PROGRAM, including the Pentagon and ALL entitlements
were frozen at last year's level. This is extremely unlikely.
Once again, NASA will be cut to make way for a few more MX
missiles and an out of control set of entitlement programs.

Dale Skran

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #146
*******************

03-May-85  0352	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #147    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 147

Today's Topics:
		  Shuttle Coverage on Cable News Network
			   L5 Network Directory
		Re: Shuttle Coverage on Cable News Network
		       reentry of paper airplanes?
		   Getting stuck in the middle of space
		Re: Shuttle Coverage on Cable News Network
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 May 85 19:32:36 pdt
Message-Id: <8505020232.AA01827@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ttidcb!shuster (Cy Shuster)
Subject: Shuttle Coverage on Cable News Network
Gateway: mordor

I have heard that CNN (Cable News Network) provided extended, or even
continuous coverage of shuttle flights, but as yet I haven't seen any
more than the ten or twenty seconds that the standard networks
provide. Does anyone know scheduled broadcast times for this 
coverage? (I subscribe via Communicom in the LA area).

------------------------------

Date: Thu 2 May 85 02:22:15-EDT
From: Bdale Garbee <AG0B%CMU-CC-TE@CMU-CC-TE>
Subject: L5 Network Directory
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

The L5 Society Computer Network Directory, listing members of the
society and other persons interested in space development who have
network addresses, has just been resurrected from the grave.

If you are not currently on the mailing list for the directory, and
would like to be... send mail with your real and network addresses,
your computer mail address, and your L5 affiliation (if any) to me at

         ag0b@cmu-cc-te.arpa  -or-  bdale@cmu-cs-g.arpa

Bdale Garbee
Founder and VP, L5 CMU
L5Net Coordinator, and 'keeper of the list'

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 May 85 08:30:28 pdt
Message-Id: <8505021530.AA04049@mordor.ARPA>
To: space-network-source@mit-mc.ARPA
From: ut-sally!barnett (Lewis Barnett)
Subject: Re: Shuttle Coverage on Cable News Network
Gateway: mordor

> I have heard that CNN (Cable News Network) provided extended, or even
> continuous coverage of shuttle flights, but as yet I haven't seen any
> more than the ten or twenty seconds that the standard networks
> provide. 

CNN did a really fine job on the satellite rescue mission;  there were
solid hours of nothing but the shuttle.  Unfortunatley, CNN now seems
to have adopted the prevailing view that only "firsts" are important.
Their coverage of the last two missions has been better than the major
networks only in that CNN runs all day long, so you get the opportunity
to see the twenty second slot twelve times instead of twice.

I long for the days of my youth, when the entire country sat on the 
edge of its seat (figuratively speaking) for the entire duration of
an Apollo mission.  Forget this crock about the declining newsworthy-
ness of space being an indicator of how commonplace it has become -- 
I still find it fascinating and wish the media paid more attention!


Lewis Barnett,CS Dept, Painter Hall 3.28, Univ. of Texas, Austin, TX 78712

-- barnett@ut-sally.ARPA, barnett@ut-sally.UUCP,
      {ihnp4,harvard,seismo,gatech,ctvax}!ut-sally!barnett

------------------------------

Date: 2 May 1985 08:42-PDT
From: king@Kestrel.ARPA
Subject: reentry of paper airplanes?
To: space@mc
Message-Id: <483896544/king@Kestrel>

    >Date: Wed, 1 May 85 08:00:19 pdt
    From: pbear!peterb
    Subject: Re: Paper planes in orbit

    Eugene,

    Another idea is the feasibility of a paper airplane making it through
    reentry. I wonder if anybody has given thought to this as a
    recreation idea.
    I think it would since it would have such a large surface area to weight
    ratio, and that as a mechanical system is massively overdamped in terms of
    stability.

    So next time some one is out there on an EVA, cluth one of the paper
    airplanes in a glove before leaving and let it fly.

    Peter Barada
    ima!pbear!peterb
    ihnp4!inmet!pbear!peterb

It would not have a larger surface-to-weight ratio than the typical
grain of sand or dust that makes the typical meteor shower.  Also, why
would it reenter?

I doubt NASA would approve an EVA after reentry burn!

						Dick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 May 85 13:02 EDT
From: Henry Minsky <hqm@SCRC-STONY-BROOK.ARPA>
Subject: Getting stuck in the middle of space
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: hqm@SCRC-STONY-BROOK.ARPA
Message-ID: <850502130244.8.HQM@ROARING-FORK.SCRC.Symbolics.COM>

  This is something I have wondered about for a long time:  If you are
in the middle of a large air-filled room in zero-g, and you find
yourself with no velocity, is it possible to "swim" to one of the walls,
i.e., by flapping your arms, kicking your legs, waving your shirt...
  I know various s-f authors have speculated on this situation, but I
want to know if any of the astronauts really reported on this situation. 

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!cvl!umd5!zben
From: umd5!zben
Subject: Re: Shuttle Coverage on Cable News Network
Message-Id: <491@umd5.UUCP>
Date: 2 May 85 17:48:41 GMT
Reply-To: zben@umd5.UUCP (Ben Cranston)

Local channel 56 (a very independant station) seems to be dovetailing some
continuous shuttle coverage with broadcasts of "the clown show" (my own
personal name for the continuous coverage of the House of Representatives).
We had about a half hour view of the mercury-iodide vapor crystal growth
experiment and some time while they were fiddling with the triglycine
sulfate (?) liquid crystal growth experiment.  Meanwhile they were trying to
fix the intercom system - they had the pilot's comm box plugged into the
mission commander's sockets cause it worked there.  I only watched for awhile
before coming to work but its really neat...

They must be picking it up from somewhere.  There were periodic announcements
of shows that would only be on something called "NASA SELECT" which I assume
is some internal TV network - but they weren't letting those shows out onto
the air.  Perhaps one has to pay for them... :-)

The call letters for channel 56 are WNVT (northern virginia television) serving
Fairfax, D.C., and Prince Georges County (MD) but I am so close to the border
with P.G. I can get it, albeit very fuzzy.  Really frustrating - I would have
liked to see the crystal growth stuff much more clearly.
-- 
Ben Cranston  ...{seismo!umcp-cs,ihnp4!rlgvax}!cvl!umd5!zben  zben@umd2.ARPA

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #147
*******************

04-May-85  0351	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #148    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 148

Today's Topics:
			    Re: attn lunatics
	 Followup to my previous note about Shuttle on ham bands
			  Re: Swimming in space
			   Space Transportation
			Space shuttle on ham bands
			Re:  Space Transportation
			      Stuck in Space
		    National Commission on Space named
		  Re: National Commission on Space named
			   CNN Shuttle coverage
			   Shuttle on Cable TV
			       Funding wars
		 Correction to ham-band shuttle coverage
			  Re: Swimming in space
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!uwvax!astroatc!nic_vax!otto
From: nic_vax!otto
Subject: Re: attn lunatics
Date: 2 May 85 14:45:07 GMT
Organization: Nicolet Instrument Corp. Madison WI

> From: <crash!usiiden!jholt@Nosc>
> 
> [forwarded from the InterComEx BBS (303) 367-1935 by joe holt]
>  
> WHAT'S NEW ON THE MOON?
> -----------------------
>  
> [this was just one posting on this BBS.  if you liked this, i'll 
> forward s'more 
>                       crash!usiiden!jholt@nosc]


send us more ... more ... more !!!!!

                                - Doug Otto

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-scotty!fisher
From: fisher@scotty.DEC
Subject: Followup to my previous note about Shuttle on ham bands
Date: 2 May 85 21:36:15 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network

I should also mention that

	1) WA3NAN indicated that they were also transmitting on
	   ~14n Mhz FM.  I presume this is a repeater frequency which
	    would not have a very great range, so I did not copy the
	    frequency down.

	2)  If I did not say so before, the transmissions originate in
	    Greenbelt Maryland, USA.  Don't know how well they can be
	    heard at other places in the world.  I'm new to this DX stuff.

	3)  During Spacelab 1, I was at Edwards AFB for the landing, and
	    found that the JPL Amateur club was transmitting the same
	    stuff on repeater frequencies.  Those of you on the
	    near the Pacific may find that the same folks are also transmitting
	    on other AM frequencies just as Goddard is.  Worth a try if you
	    can't get Goddard.

Burns

------------------------------

Date: 3 May 1985 0743 PST
From: Ron Tencati <TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA>
Subject: Re: Swimming in space
To: space@mit-mc
Reply-To: TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA

Henry S. F. Cooper Jr. in his book "The House in Space" quoted one astronaut
as saying that he had faced the dilemma of getting "stuck" in the middle of
a room in zero G.  He said that all his "swimming" attempts succeeded only 
in causing his body to gyrate in the opposite direction of the force, and
that he had to have help to get to the other side of the room.  This same
astronaut then did an experiment where a small amount of velocity was 
introduced into the experiment.  He was still unable to control his own 
destiny, but he did get to the other side of the room a half hour later.

I wonder if a change in the ship's velocity would affect the hapless astronaut
who is hanging in mid-air.

Ron Tencati
JPL-VLSI.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!decwrl!sun!plx!kevin
From: plx!kevin (Kevin Carney)
Subject: Space Transportation
Date: 2 May 85 12:19:46 GMT
Organization: Plexus Computers, Santa Clara, CA

I met a man in my area named Bob Truax who thinks he has a
demonstratibly better concept for putting cargo into orbit
(better than the shuttle that is) because of two main design
differences.

1. The propulsion system uses liquid fuel and is "pressure
   fed" (with remarkable low psi's) and the entire vehicle
   is recoverable (on the shuttle the main booster is not).

2. The craft has no wings. It is to be treated more like a
   ship than an aircraft. It will take off from water, land
   in water (with the aid of a parachute) and be towed to
   drydock for refurbishment.

Does anybody know anything about this concept?? Do you think
it can work?? (The man is not a flake, he has been involved
in aerospace and rocketry for about 30 years. His list of
awards and accomplishments look very impressive).

This idea really intrigues me and I'd like to hear the ideas
of some space nuts out there in netland.

Kevin Carney @ Plexus Computers, San Jose, CA
decvax!decwrl!sun!plx!kevin

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-dvinci!fisher
From: fisher@dvinci.DEC
Subject: Space shuttle on ham bands
Date: 2 May 85 17:41:05 GMT
Organization: DEC Engineering Network

Space shuttle mission audio is being rebroadcast by WA3NAN, the Goddard
Amateur Radio Club, on the following frequencies:

	 3860 Khz  (Received here in Central Mass)
	 7185 Khz  ( "            "           "  )
	14295 Khz  (not received here, but announced on WA3NAN)

	(all Upper Sideband)

They appear to miss some of it...e.g. during LOS, mission control
announced that they were going to play an interview with someone.  Then
dead air for 5 min, then they announced that the interview was over.

In any case, if you can receive it, it is a lot cheaper than $.30 /minute
on the 900 number!

Burns

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 May 85 09:48:35 pdt
From: Rick McGeer <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
Message-Id: <8505031648.AA07913@ucbkim.ARPA>
To: sun!plx!kevin@Berkeley
Subject: Re:  Space Transportation
Cc: space@mit-mc.ARPA

	Wasn't Truax the guy who was going to put an astronaut up a few years
back?

					Rick

------------------------------

Date: Fri 3 May 85 13:11:21-EDT
From: Paul Roberts <PMR@COLUMBIA-20.ARPA>
Subject: Stuck in Space
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

 But how could you come to be in the middle of large zero-G room at no
velocity ? Theoretically, by throwing out some mass in mid-flight (ie
in such a way that it carried away all your momentum relative to the
room). But in practice you would never get this exactly right; you'd
be left with enough residual drift to carry you to a wall eventually.

 I recall one story (A.C. Clarke ?) in which someone found himself in
such a predicament and used the only available reaction-mass: his shorts.
At this point, a visiting Congressman's wife enters and our hero's
career suffers a setback.

Paul Roberts  pmr@columbia-20

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!linus!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: National Commission on Space named
Date: 1 May 85 19:22:21 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

According to a recent item in Science, Reagan has finally named the
members of the National Commission on Space, charged with defining
the goals of the US space program.  The news is good; here's the list
(apparently one more member is awaiting security clearance):

Thomas O. Paine, former NASA head
Laurel L. Wilkening, planetary scientist at U of Arizona
Charles E. Yeager, who should need no introduction
Neil A. Armstrong, ditto
Kathryn D. Sullivan, ditto
Gerard K. O'Neill, ditto
Jeane J. Kirkpatrick, outgoing US ambassador to UN
Luis W. Alvarez, UCB physicist, Nobel prize
Paul J. Coleman, UCLA geophysicist, Space Research Assn. president
George B. Field, former Harvard-Smithsonian Astrophys. Observ. director,
	Nat. Acad. of Sci. Astronomy Survey Ctee. chairman
William H. Fitch, retired deputy USMC chief of staff for aviation
Charles M. Hertzfield, director of research and technology for ITT
J.L. Kerrebrock, head of aero/astro dept. at MIT
David C. Webb, space development consultant

The article does note "...it remains to be seen whether anyone will pay
attention when the commission finally does report...".  This is tentatively
scheduled to happen early in 1986.

				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Relay-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site mordor.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site brl-tgr.ARPA
Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!brl-tgr!jcp
From: jcp@brl-tgr.ARPA (Joe Pistritto <jcp@brl-tgr.ARPA>)
Newsgroups: net.space
Subject: Re: National Commission on Space named
Message-Id: <10422@brl-tgr.ARPA>
Date: 3 May 85 20:51:28 GMT
References: <5558@utzoo.UUCP>
Reply-To: jcp@brl-tgr.ARPA (Joe Pistritto <jcp>)
Organization: Ballistic Research Lab
Lines: 18
Apparently-To: space-network-source@mit-mc

In article <5558@utzoo.UUCP> henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) writes:
>According to a recent item in Science, Reagan has finally named the
>members of the National Commission on Space, charged with defining
>the goals of the US space program.  The news is good; here's the list
>(apparently one more member is awaiting security clearance):

Now wait a minute...  Personally, I can't understand why on earth a
group defining the direction of the US space program should NEED a
security clearance.  After all, the military isn't going to let anyone
outside DOD play with THEIR space operations, so surely the civilian
side of the program should be completely unclassified.

(Come to think of it, the very FIRST place the committee's report should
be mailed is the Kremlin, that way they'll start moving on it 5-10
years ahead of Washington, which will scare everyone in Congress into
funding the rest of the program...  (1/2 :-))

						-JCP-

------------------------------

Relay-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site mordor.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site decwrl.UUCP
Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-scotty!fisher
From: fisher@scotty.DEC
Newsgroups: net.columbia
Subject: CNN Shuttle coverage
Message-Id: <1991@decwrl.UUCP>
Date: 3 May 85 13:34:10 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network
Lines: 13
Apparently-To: space-network-source@mit-mc


Well, they certainly don't provide continuous coverage.  I found that they
covered the launch much better than the big 3, and on the last mission,
they provided very good coverage of the "flyswatter" attempt to activate
the Leasat (was that what it was...how soon we forget!)  In addition,
they have a greater tendency to let us hear mission control rather than
grandstanding themselves.

In summary, CNN coverage is far superior to the big 3, but by no means
continuous.  In addition, you can usually find out SOMETHING about the
flight every hour or so (half-hour on CNN Headline news).

Burns

------------------------------

Relay-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site mordor.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site decwrl.UUCP
Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-scotty!fisher
From: fisher@scotty.DEC
Newsgroups: net.columbia
Subject: Shuttle on Cable TV
Message-Id: <1992@decwrl.UUCP>
Date: 3 May 85 13:41:43 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network
Lines: 23
Apparently-To: space-network-source@mit-mc

><
Some of you may remember a while back I was trying to get my local cable
company to carry NASA's shuttle feed on one of their free channels.  They
finally got sick of hearing me while the cable was still under construction,
and told me to wait till the service started.  Well, it has started, and
I am starting to bug them again.

I am looking for the names of other cable companies that provide shuttle
coverage.  I know from my earlier request that the cable in Long Beach,CA
does. Any others out there?  Also, any information about HOW they schedule
it would be helpful.  For example, do they dedicate a channel to it?  What
happens between missions?  If they timeshare a channel with some other
program source, how do they determine when to transmit which source?  Do
they publicize the service, or is it just there (i.e. uncommitted)?

Thanks for whatever info you can send!

Burns Fisher


	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

From: <bang!crash!bnw@Nosc>
Message-Id: <8505040315.AA24909@cod.ARPA>
Date: Fri, 3 May 85 10:48:02 PDT
To: bang!Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Subject: Funding wars

     Dale Amon states:
 
>Regardless of what Sagan may have said in print, he and others are lobbying
>hard at this moment to make sure the space station and not their pet
>projects get the knife.
 
                         and then adds:
 
>The combined efforts of nearly ALL the other space organizations is lobbying
>AGAINST his Carl's efforts.
 
     This is all new to me, so I'd appreciate a clearer idea as to whom the
principal players referred to are, and what projects are pushed by Dr. Sagan
and company in preference to the space station project.  Do these other
projects lack validity?
     In the same vein, if the funding for the space station is cut back so far
that nothing meaningful can be done, is there any sense in tying up the money
in futile semi-work instead of using it on a smaller project that can make
meaningful use of the money?
     What I am suggesting is that space station project supporters are as
prone to tunnel vision about their pet project as everyone else.  This does
not, however, mean that they are more right or more wrong than those with whom
they disagree.  Let us remember that there is more than one Important Project.
 
                                                         /Bruce N. Wheelock/
 
                                  arpanet:           bang!crash!bnw at nosc
                                     uucp: {ihnp4 | sdcsvax!bang}!crash!bnw

------------------------------

Relay-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site mordor.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site decwrl.UUCP
Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-scotty!fisher
From: fisher@scotty.DEC
Newsgroups: net.columbia,net.ham-radio
Subject: Correction to ham-band shuttle coverage
Message-Id: <1993@decwrl.UUCP>
Date: 3 May 85 13:42:49 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network
Lines: 10
Xref: seismo net.columbia:1264 net.ham-radio:2721
Apparently-To: space-network-source@mit-mc


Correction:  That rebroadcast of shuttle mission audio from Goddard
Amateur Radio Club is on LOWER sideband, not upper.

Burns


	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

Relay-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site mordor.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site ut-sally.UUCP
Path: mordor!ut-sally!barnett
From: ut-sally!barnett (Lewis Barnett)
Newsgroups: net.space
Subject: Re: Swimming in space
Message-Id: <1813@ut-sally.UUCP>
Date: 4 May 85 04:32:46 GMT
References: <1651@mordor.UUCP>
Organization: U. Texas CS Dept., Austin, Texas
Lines: 19
Apparently-To: space-network-source@mit-mc

> From: Ron Tencati <TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA>
> 
> Henry S. F. Cooper Jr. in his book "The House in Space" quoted one astronaut
> as saying that he had faced the dilemma of getting "stuck" in the middle of
> a room in zero G.  He said that all his "swimming" attempts succeeded only 
> in causing his body to gyrate in the opposite direction of the force, and
> that he had to have help to get to the other side of the room.  

I remember reading a story long, long ago that suggested that it should 
be possible to produce some velocity by throwing an object in the 
opposite direction one wanted to move.  It sounded reasonable to me
then, but I was young and impressionable at the time.  And, of course,
it _was_ science fiction...


Lewis Barnett,CS Dept, Painter Hall 3.28, Univ. of Texas, Austin, TX 78712

-- barnett@ut-sally.ARPA, barnett@ut-sally.UUCP,
      {ihnp4,harvard,seismo,gatech,ctvax}!ut-sally!barnett

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #148
*******************

05-May-85  0350	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #149    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 149

Today's Topics:
		Re: Shuttle Coverage on Cable News Network
			  Re: Swimming in Space
			     Experiment Fixed
			   More Minor Problems
			  Urine Experiment Fixed
		PBS series "Spaceflight" starts this week
				  truax
			Galileo mission to Jupiter
			   SFMSS plea for help!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Relay-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site mordor.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site mgweed.UUCP
Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!mgnetp!mgweed!prg
From: mgweed!prg (Phil Gunsul)
Newsgroups: net.columbia,net.space
Subject: Re: Shuttle Coverage on Cable News Network
Message-Id: <16869@mgweed.UUCP>
Date: 3 May 85 15:36:13 GMT
References: <1433@aecom.UUCP> <343@ttidcb.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: AT&T Consumer Products - Montgomery Illinois
Lines: 9
Xref: seismo net.columbia:1265 net.space:3357
Apparently-To: space-network-source@mit-mc

Have you thought about a satellite dish?  NASA has two transponders
that carry about as much info as anyone could possibly want.

Also it may pay to contact your cable company and ask them if
this information could be put on as a locally generated
program.  If you started a call in campaign it may just work...

Phil Gunsul -- AT&T CP

------------------------------

Date: 4 May 1985 1010 PST
From: Ron Tencati <TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA>
Subject: Re: Swimming in Space
To: space@mit-mc
Reply-To: TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA


I guess I forgot to mention that Cooper's book "A House in Space" was a 
documentary on the Skylab missions. It was not a science fiction novel.

I read the book several years ago, but it is still on my bookshelf.  As I
recall the hapless astronaut was not stuck with velocity=0, but he was
in the middle of the room, drifting VERY slowly, and he was unable to 
affect his velocity or course. He then repeated the experiment with a
little more velocity.

Flapping one's shirt or trunks will may work in the shuttle where there is
an atmosphere and wind can be generated. In the vacuum of space, however, 
nothing will induce velocity unless the astronaut puctures his/her space
suit and causes some kind of thrust.

Henry Cooper only gave this topic about 1 page in his book, so I shouldn't
take up more room than that.  I can dig up the book and provide the name of
the astronaut, who can then be contacted for the "real scoop"...
------

------------------------------

Relay-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site mordor.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site brunix.UUCP
Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!panda!talcott!wjh12!foxvax1!brunix!alb
From: brunix!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Newsgroups: net.columbia
Subject: Experiment Fixed
Message-Id: <10502@brunix.UUCP>
Date: 2 May 85 23:31:55 GMT
Distribution: net
Organization: Brown University Computer Science
Lines: 5
Apparently-To: space-network-source@mit-mc

With a shout of joy, a shuttle astronaut today fixed
an experiment designed nine years ago to fly on the
space shuttle.  The experiment, a study of the effects
of weightlessness on fluid drops, hadn't worked until
today due to a short circuit.

------------------------------

Relay-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site mordor.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site brunix.UUCP
Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!panda!talcott!wjh12!foxvax1!brunix!alb
From: brunix!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Newsgroups: net.columbia
Subject: More Minor Problems
Message-Id: <10472@brunix.UUCP>
Date: 1 May 85 14:00:16 GMT
Distribution: net
Organization: Brown University Computer Science
Lines: 12
Apparently-To: space-network-source@mit-mc

More minor problems beset the Challenger yesterday.  When
astronauts went to feed their animal guests, a flood of
partially eaten food and feces spewed out into the Spacelab;
this was quickly cleaned up.  Also, an airlock in the cargo
bay jammed, so a camera that was to have gone through it
could not.  However, NASA says the mission is proceeding
very well, despite the minor problems, and a lot of good
data has been obtained from the seven working experiments
out of nine on Spacelab.  In fact, they are considering
extending the flight by one day to give the Spacelab crew
more time.  The landing is currently scheduled for 6 May at
EAFB.

------------------------------

Relay-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site mordor.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site brunix.UUCP
Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!panda!talcott!wjh12!foxvax1!brunix!alb
From: brunix!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Newsgroups: net.columbia
Subject: Urine Experiment Fixed
Message-Id: <10484@brunix.UUCP>
Date: 2 May 85 01:16:37 GMT
Distribution: net
Organization: Brown University Computer Science
Lines: 5
Apparently-To: space-network-source@mit-mc

The urine monitoring experiment that backfired and sent
urine spewing all over the cabin on Monday has been fixed,
NASA said today.  Also, they reported that a crystal
growth experiment is now working perfectly, with growth
measured at about a millimeter per day.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 May 85 11:27:53 pdt
From: Ross Finlayson <rsf@Pescadero>
Subject: PBS series "Spaceflight" starts this week
To: space@mit-mc

I'm really looking forward to this series.  It's a shame that there are only
4 1-hour episodes.

BC-SPACEFLIGHT ADV05
(FOR RELEASE: Sunday, May 5)
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
c.1985 N.Y. Times News Service
    NEW YORK - Enough time has passed, more than a quarter of a century,
for the space age now to attract chroniclers who address the
historical dimensions of this new power to break the bonds of Earth's
gravity and travel out to a frontier unlike any other.
     There is, it seems, a growing recognition of space flight as an
enduring phenomenon that may well transcend all previous human
experience.
    Reflections on the origin, experiences and meaning of spacefaring
have been offered recently in books, movies and television programs.
Tom Wolfe's ''Right Stuff,'' the book and the movie, evoked the early
days of the American space experience.
     James A. Michener's ''Space,'' the novel and the television
mini-series last month, enlarged on the experience to shape a
fictional epic of the past 40 years.
    And last month, Walter A. McDougal, a Berkeley historian, published
''The Heavens and the Earth,'' the first definitive political history
of the space age.
    Now, the Public Broadcasting Service has moved to the launching pad
a documentary, ''Spaceflight,'' covering the history of space
exploration from the early theorists, visionaries and rocket pioneers
through the dramatic moon landings to the flights of the space
shuttle and the prospects of star wars. The first of the four
hour-long segments will be shown Wednesday evening.
    ''Spaceflight'' is billed as the first prime-time television
documentary series to offer a comprehensive history of both the
Soviet and the American space programs.
    Some film, previously withheld from the public, includes scenes of
an X-3 rocketplane crash. The Soviet Union also provided some rare
footage of Sergei Korolev, the ''chief designer'' of the Soviet
program, whose identity remained a secret until after his death in
the late 1960's.
    The documentary takes note of the emerging competition of the
European, Japanese and Chinese space efforts. But perhaps inevitably,
owing to the availability of so much more NASA film, the visual
emphasis is centered on American endeavors.
    Little attention is given to the unmanned explorations, the landings
of automated craft on Mars and Venus and the odysseys of Pioneers and
Voyagers to the outer planets and the fringes of the solar system.
>From the beginning, the manned program, Soyuz and Salyut, Mercury,
Apollo and the shuttle, have enjoyed political priority, and so they
do in this documentary conceived, written and produced by Blaine
Baggett.
    Baggett fastened his initial hopes on space. It was, at first, an
act of faith. For two years of research and interviewing, he had no
outside financial support. Finally, he persuaded the Corporation for
Public Broadcasting and then the Du Pont Co. to back him.
    ''I read 'The Right Stuff' and found it fascinating. Wolfe had dealt
only with the Mercury astronauts, and I thought there must be so much
other fascinating material out there about space before Mercury and
after.
    ''I found that no one had ever done a really comprehensive look at
space flight, except on a sort of mission-by-mission basis.''
Moreover, space seemed to fit his own ambitions. ''I wanted to do
documentaries looking at American institutions - why we do the things
we do.''
    Baggett interviewed and filmed more than 40 people for the series.
These included such early astronauts as Alan Shepard, Wally Schirra
and John Glenn.
    Chuck Yeager, the incomparable test pilot, recalled his attitude
toward the new Mercury space program. ''It wasn't flying to me,''
said Yeager, the first pilot to break the sound barrier. ''So, I
wasn't interested in it.''
    Wernher von Braun, the German scientist who built the American
Saturn V moon rocket, is shown in one of his last filmed interviews
before he died in 1977.
    A relaxed, reminiscent tone runs through the stories these people
tell, which probably reflects Baggett's off-camera interviewing
technique.
    Baggett said he regreted not being able to interview some of the
Soviet astronauts, but his entreaties to the Soviet Embassy in
Washington were met with a cool response.
    Mixing the recollections of the interviewees with the pictorial
record, the still photographs of early days and the striking movies
of exploding failures and soaring successes, Baggett produced the
kind of documentary that has all but vanished. Events are not
recreated. The only actor employed is Martin Sheen, who narrates the
series.
     In the first episode, ''Thunder in the Skies,'' the story begins
with the launching of Sputnik I on Oct. 4, 1957, the opening shot in
the space age and the so-called space race between the superpowers,
but then properly turns back to the more distant beginnings. There
are scenes from rural Russia in the 19th century, when an obscure
school teacher laid the theoretical groundwork for space flight.
There is Robert H. Goddard, the American pioneer, firing his first
liquid rockets in the 1920's.
    The second episode, ''The Wings of Mercury,'' concentrates on the
early days of manned space flight, both in the Soviet Union and the
United States. The third, ''One Giant Leap,'' recounts the struggle
to fulfill the Kennedy commitment to a moon landing, to the Apollo XI
landing at Tranquillity Base on July 20, 1969.
    The final episode, ''The Territory Ahead,'' encompasses the Soviet
feats of endurance in the Salyut space stations and the flights of
the American shuttle, the world's first re-usable space ship.

------------------------------

Date:     Sat, 4 May 85 10:11 CDT
From:     Mike_Linnig <linnig%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To:       space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc:       linnig%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
Subject:  truax

Wasn't Mr. truax the man who helped build the rocket cycle that evil kinevil
(sp?) used to try to jump the grand canyon?

Wasn't there a tv series (Starring Andy Griffith?) about a space parts
collector that made his own rockets based on (very loosely) on Truax?

-- Mike Linnig 
    "I'll watch anything [with a space plot]"

------------------------------

From: <crash!usiiden!jholt@Nosc>
Message-Id: <8505050110.AA06153@cod.ARPA>
Date: Sat, 4 May 85 12:53:04 PDT
To: crash!noscvax!space@mit-mc
Subject: Galileo mission to Jupiter

[forwarded from the InterComEx BBS (303) 367-1935 by joe holt - 
thanx as always to Mark Felton, one of the sysops of this board 
and the one responsible for these articles] 
 
 
From: _Project Galileo: A Return to Jupiter_
[it should be noted that this is a NASA publication]
 
The great Italian astronomer Galileo Galilei shocked the world in 
January 1610 when he announced the discovery of four satellites 
oribiting Jupiter. His discovery provided proof to Nicolaus 
Copernicus' theory that Earth and the other planets orbit the 
Sun, and Earth is not the center of the universe. Galileo told 
the story of his discovery:
 
    "On the seventh day of January in the present year 1610, at 
    the first hour of the night, when I was viewing the heavenly 
    bodies with a telescope, Jupiter presented itself to me; and 
    because I had prepared a very excellent instrument for 
    myself, I perceived (as I had not before, on account of the 
    weakness of my previous instrument) that beside the planet 
    there were three starlets, small indeed, but very bright." 
 
Galileo thought those "starlets" were just more of the fixed 
stars that his telescope was allowing him to discover with 
astounding regularity. But the next night he saw they had changed 
position. The night after that was cloudy. Then on January 10, he 
saw only two "starlets", the third having disappeared behind 
Jupiter. 
 
On the 11th:
 
    "I had now decided beyond all question that there existed in 
    the heavens three stars wandering about Jupiter as do Mercury 
    and Venus about the Sun, and this became plainer than 
    daylight from observations on similar occasions that 
    followed."
 
On January 13, 1610, Galileo spotted the fourth satellite. 
Although he nearly paid for his observatons and later writing 
with his life, Galileo remained the most respected scientist of 
his time. Today, those four satellites - Io, Europa, Ganymede, 
and Callisto are called the Galilean satellites in his honor. 
 
A NASA project to orbit Jupiter and send an instrumented Probe 
into the giant planet's atmosphere is under way at the Jet 
Propulsion Laboratory. The mission, called Project Galileo after 
the Italian astronomer, will begin an in depth exploration of the 
Jovian system: Jupiter, the Galilean satellites, and the giant, 
invisible magnetosphere surrounding Jupiter. Scientists believe 
that Jupiter is made of the original material from which stars 
form, largely unmodified by nuclear processes. Close range 
studies of Jupiter should provide important information about the 
beginning and development of our solar system and provide new 
insights into phenomena that directly relate to our understanding 
of all the planets. 
 
Project Galileo was originally scheduled for launch in early 1982 
as the scientific successor to the Voyager mission to Jupiter. 
The Galileo probe was designed to be attatched to the Orbiter, 
and the combination spacecraft was scheduled to be launched from 
an Earth orbiting Space Shuttle. The relative position of Earth, 
Mars and Jupiter at that time makes it possible to send a heavy 
spacecraft to Jupiter via Mars in a relatively short time. 
Problems in the Space Shuttle development, however delayed the 
Galileo launch until recently. But now two spacecrafts will make 
the trip; an Orbiter spacecraft and an instrument Probe flying 
aboard a Probe Carrier spacecraft. 
 
The Orbiter will fly within a few hundred kilometers of the 
surface of Mars. The Orbiter will use Mars' gravity and a long 
burn of its own rocket motor to boost it the rest of the way to 
Jupiter. 
 
When the Orbiter arrives at Jupiter about one year before the 
probe, it will photograph the region where the Probe will never 
enter to ensure achievement of the original mission goals. As the 
Orbiter reaches its closest approach to Jupiter, it will fire its 
retrorocket engine for about 50 minutes to slow the spacecraft 
and permit capture by the planet. Within a few hours of closest 
approach to Jupiter, the Orbiter will fly past the volcanic 
satellite, Io, for close scientific observations. Io's gravity 
will further slow the spacecraft. 
 
At that point the spacecraft will be orbiting Jupiter in an 
elliptical path, ranging from more than 15 million Km (9.3 
million mi) to 285,000 Km (178,000 mi) above Jupiter's cloud 
tops. Thereafter, the orbit will change through a series of 
elliptical paths to take the spacecraft to all regions of 
Jupiter's environment. That will be accomplished by using the 
gravity of the satellites to bend the orbit each time the 
spacecraft comes close to one of them. Eventually the orbit will 
be so altered that the spacecraft's closest approach to Jupiter 
will be 900,000 Km (560,000 mi) above Jupiter's cloud tops. 
During at least one orbit, the spacecraft will fly through and 
study Jupiter's magnetotail - the portion of the magnetic region 
directly opposite the Sun - to a distance of 150 times the radius 
of Jupiter, more than 10 million Km (6.2 million mi) from the 
planet. Observations of the magnetotail are not possible from 
Earth or with flyby spacecraft because the spacecraft pass close 
to Jupiter, and their trajectories are too strongly deflected to 
reach that region. 
 
The Orbiter will complete 11 orbits of Jupiter while making a 
close flyby of one Galilean satellite - Io, Europa, Ganymede or 
Callisto - on each orbit. The Orbiter, carrying 11 scientific 
instruments and weighing 2660 Kg (5864 lb) at launch, will 
transmit scientific and engineering data at rates up to 115K
bits per second. 
 
Meanwhile, the Probe will be launched one month after the 
Orbiter, in March 1984, and will be transported to Jupiter on a 
special Probe Carrier spacecraft. Traveling on a long trajectory 
that does not pass Mars, the Probe and its Carrier will reach 
Jupiter one year later than the Orbiter in the summer of 1987. 
After being released from the Probe-Carrier spacecraft, the Probe 
will descend toward Jupiter's thick atmosphere. 
 
Scientists want the instrument-laden Probe to enter Jupiter's 
light colored Equatorial Zone, between 1 and 5.5 degrees north or 
south latitude. They believe the topmost clouds of that portion 
of Jupiter's atmosphere consist primarily of ammonia. By entering 
at that location, the Probe should be able to measure Jupiter's 
important cloud layers. 
 
As the Probe strikes the upper layers of Jupiter's atmosphere, it 
will slow so rapidly that it will feel the effects of 400 times 
Earth's gravity. Once the strongest deceleration forces have 
passed, the Probe will deploy a parachute. The decent module will 
begin to take atmospheric measurements and transmit its findings 
to the Probe Carrier spacecraft for relay back to Earth. 40 
minutes after entry, scientists expect the Probe to reach an 
atmospheric density of about 10 bars (10 X the atmospheric 
pressure at Earth's surface), below what are believed to be 
Jupiter's lowest water clouds. 
 
At the end of 60 minutes, the Probe will have penetrated 15 to 20 
Earth atmospheres. Below that, increasing temperature and 
pressure and weakening radio signals will eventually bring the 
Probe mission to an end. 
 
Meanwhile, the Probe Carrier spacecraft will monitor signals from 
the Probe, pricking up scientific information and relaying it to 
Earth. The data also will be recorded on the Probe Carrier for 
later playback if needed.
 
Once the Probe's work is done, the mission operations emphasis 
will revert to the Orbiter. The primary mission is scheduled to 
end about 20 months after Probe arrival at Jupiter. 
 
The Galileo Orbiter will incorporate a new dual spin design. Part 
of the spacecraft will be three axis stabilized so the camera and 
some other instruments can be accurately and steadily pointed. 
The other portion will spin so its instruments can sweep out 
space to make their measurements. Since Jupiter is too far from 
the Sun for solar cells, the Orbiter will use radioisotope
thermoelectric generators similar to those flown on the two 
Voyager spacecrafts. 
 
Jupiter is vastly different from Earth, Mercury, Venus and Mars. 
While these terrestrial planets are mostly rock, Jupiter's major 
constituents are hydrogen and helium, in about the same ratio as 
the Sun. 
 
Jupiter is the noisiest source of radio signals, except the Sun, 
in our sky. Its magnetic field - the largest in our solar system 
- would reach from Earth to Venus. Jupiter may change gradually 
from a gaseous hydrogen helium to a liquid metalic hydrogen. The 
tops of the clouds - all that can be seen of the planet - are 
wracked by huge storms that appear to well up from deep within 
Jupiter's interior. 
 
The four Galilean satellites differ from each other in much the 
same way as the planets differ with distance from the Sun. Io has 
been subjected to a gravitational tug of war that has resulted in 
at least eight large, active volcanoes; Europa appears to be 
rocky with an ice crust. Ganymede and Callisto, while different 
from each other in significant ways, both consist mostly of 
water. 
 
The Orbiter is designed to:
 
    Inspect the surfaces of the satellites (the camera may see 
    details as small as 30-100 meters across) to gain information 
    about their composition, present state, and geological 
    history.
 
    Make comprehensive observations of Jupiter's weather.
 
    Study the magnetosphere- its size and shape and how it 
    changes, how particles enter and leave it, and how Jupiter's 
    satellites affect it. 
 
The Probe is designed to:
 
    Determine the temperature, pressure, density, and composition 
    of the various levels of Jupiter's atmosphere down to a level 
    at which pressure is about 10 X that at sea level on Earth, 
    perhaps 129 Km (80 mi) below the cloud tops.
 
    Measure and compare the flows of energy through the 
    atmosphere, inward from the Sun and outward from Jupiter's 
    interior. 
 
Even before the time of Galileo, people have been interested in 
Jupiter, our largest planet. More than 475 scientists - including 
90 from 10 foreign countries - submitted proposals in Project 
Galileo; 115 scientists were selected to form the Galileo science 
team. Project Galileo will be the U.S.' fifth mission to Jupiter; 
predecessors include Pioneer 10 & 11 and Voyager 1 & 2. 
 
The Jet Propulsion Laboratory is the overall management center 
for Project Galileo. The Orbiter's rocket propulsion system will 
be provided by the Federal Repulblic of Germany. NASA Ames 
Research Center will develop the Probe and Probe Carrier 
spacecraft. Radio signals from the two spacecraft will be 
received on Earth by JPL's Deep Space Network.
 
[more current-newsish topics will be forwarded in the future]

------------------------------

Date: Sat 4 May 85 23:38:31-EDT
From: Bdale Garbee <AG0B%CMU-CC-TE@CMU-CC-TE>
Subject: SFMSS plea for help!
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA


Many of you may remember when we created 'Scientists For a Manned Space
Station' on short notice. This action was critical in gaining funding for
the station by defeating efforts in committee to divert or cut funding.

Well folks, we need you again. If you were not part of that effort, or if
you have changed phone, USnail address or net address over the last year,
please send an update to:

		garbee@cmu-cs-g

Membership requirements are:

	a) You work in science (not necessarily a Phd)
	b) You agree that a manned space station is a good idea

Among the key figures who worked with us last year are: Dr. Jastrow, Dr.
Sheffield as spokespersons; Dr. James Fletcher (Former NASA director), Dr.
Noel Jarret (tech. dir. at Alcoa), Gordon Woodcock, Peter Vijk, Marvin
Minsky, John McCarthy, and many others by lending their names.

We need your name to back a request for FULL FUNDING for the space station.
A Ms. Sandy Adamson may contact some of you directly by telephone if we need
signatures, a petition, or any such extra support. WE NEED YOUR HELP.
Congress is looking on NASA as a painless place to cut the budget. We are in
danger of loosing nearly $750M off the original presidential budget, and of
having major diversion and cutbacks on the space station funding itself.
Let's make it a VERY painful place to look for easy cuts!!

To lend your support, mail the following information to garbee@cmu-cs-g (please
use the format shown, clip and edit if desired... it will make our life easier
inserting the information into our database!):

	Name:		Dr. Public
	Title:		Professor of Foobaz
	Affiliation:	Computer Science Department, CMU
	Phone:		work and/or home
	Mail:		work or home
	Net:		network address

Get people in other departments if you can. Get info in as soon as
possible. We want to have as large a support base as possible before
the committee vote.

Let's show them that there is a groundswell of support of scientists for a
manned space station!!!
-------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #149
*******************

06-May-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #150    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 150

Today's Topics:
			    Re: attn lunatics
		      Re: Space shuttle on ham bands
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Relay-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site mordor.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!cbosgd!clyde!watmath!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Newsgroups: net.space
Subject: Re: attn lunatics
Message-Id: <5563@utzoo.UUCP>
Date: 3 May 85 16:23:46 GMT
References: <1598@mordor.UUCP>
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
Lines: 6
Apparently-To: space-network-source@mit-mc

Unfortunately, this article is a little out of date.  The instruments
left on the Moon by the Apollo missions were turned off some years ago,
to save the pittance it cost to receive and record the data.  ARGH.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Relay-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site mordor.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site umd5.UUCP
Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!cvl!umd5!louie
From: umd5!louie
Newsgroups: net.columbia,net.ham-radio
Subject: Re: Space shuttle on ham bands
Message-Id: <494@umd5.UUCP>
Date: 5 May 85 19:16:00 GMT
References: <1973@decwrl.UUCP>
Reply-To: louie@umd5.UUCP (Louis Mamakos)
Organization: U of Md, CSC, College Park, Md
Lines: 7
Xref: seismo net.columbia:1270 net.ham-radio:2726
Apparently-To: space-network-source@mit-mc

The 2 meter frequency is 147.45 MHz FM.  It is transmitted my WA3NAN from
the Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland.  It can be copied
in the Baltimore-Washington Metro area.
-- 
Louis A. Mamakos WA3YMH   University of Maryland, Computer Science Center
 Internet: louie@umd5.arpa
 UUCP: {seismo!umcp-cs, ihnp4!rlgvax}!cvl!umd5!louie

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #150
*******************

07-May-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #151    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 151

Today's Topics:
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #148
			      Andy Griffith
		 Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
				Re: Sagan
----------------------------------------------------------------------

To: Space-Enthusiasts@mit-mc.ARPA
Cc: SPACE@mit-mc.ARPA, lazear@mitre.ARPA
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #148
	     <8505041138.AB28062@mitre.ARPA>
Date: 06 May 85 10:58:05 EDT (Mon)
From: Walt Lazear <lazear@mitre.ARPA>

Regarding Bob Truax, I seem to remember interviews with him on TV.
I may be entirely wrong, but didn't he build the rocket that Evil
Kneival used to try to jump the Snake River?  It was either that,
or he was trying to drum up backing for his private efforts to
provide civilian space launches.  Can anyone confirm the Kneival
connection?
	Walt (Lazear at MITRE)

------------------------------

From: crash!bnw@SDCSVAX.ARPA
Date: Mon, 6 May 85 11:38:03 PDT
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Subject: Andy Griffith

>Wasn't there a tv series (Starring Andy Griffith?) about a space parts
>collector that made his own rockets based on (very loosely) on Truax?
 
Yes, about three years ago on (I think) NBC.  Andy Griffith starred in a
TV movie and short-run series called "Salvage."  He played the *rich* owner
of a very big scale salvage company.  He decided (in the pilot) to salvage the
stuff NASA left on the moon, built a ship (using NASA rejects and left-overs),
and did so.  A little shakey on the science here and there, but enjoyable, I
thought.  The series did not live up to the pilot, and died.
                                                         /Bruce N. Wheelock/
                        arpanet: crash!bnw@ucsd
                           uucp: {ihnp4, cbosgd, sdcsvax, noscvax}!crash!bnw

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!houxm!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!orca!warner
From: orca!warner (Ken Warner)
Subject: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
Date: 5 May 85 16:14:09 GMT
Reply-To: warner@orca.UUCP (Ken Warner)
Organization: Tektronix, Wilsonville OR

I have often wondered if swim-fin like shoes would be effective.
Ken Warner

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!ames!eugene
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Re: Sagan
Date: 6 May 85 21:42:53 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

> From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
> 
> Regardless of what Sagan may have said in print, he and others are lobbying
> hard at this moment to make sure the space station and not their pet
> projects get the knife.
> ...
> Folks, this is all out war. If you want there to be any future for yourself
> and your children, get off your can and DO SOMETHING RIGHT NOW!!!

I feel I have to response to this emotionalism.  [First, I appreciate not have
MY slice of the pie not cut.]  Appealing to individuals and children, come on!

Recently, my Division Chief made the decision to leave NASA.  His prior
experience was running portions of several nuclear research facilities
in CA and NM.  His comment to me was that he found a great deal of
political in fighting within NASA as opposed to the L*Ls.
I suspect that a lot of this is due to the Budget cutting nature of Congress,
the BIG engineering thinking which characterizes NASA, and the fact that 
BIG money only goes to BIG projects.  [Note the case for private space.]

Most of the programs Carl tries to defend: Voyager, Nuclear Winter,
the Planetary Program, are relatively small budget items: factors of $100M,
at most, whereas the Space Station is $5B.  NW can be measured in thousands.
If you want to appeal to Congress, you should not appeal that budgets in
NASA be directed to specific program like the space station.  Instead,
[personal opinion:] cut some of the fat from DOD budgets.

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,decwrl,allegra}!ames!aurora!eugene
  emiya@ames-vmsb.ARPA

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #151
*******************

08-May-85  0352	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #152    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 152

Today's Topics:
		Re: Shuttle Coverage on Cable News Network
		 Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
			Re: Re: Swimming in space
			  Re: Swimming in space
		Re: Shuttle Coverage on Cable News Network
			  Expensive alarm clock
			       Budget cuts
				  Truax
			   Space Station costs
		  Getting UNSTUCK in the middle of space
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!nsc!nessus
From: nsc!nessus (Kchula-Rrit)
Subject: Re: Shuttle Coverage on Cable News Network
Date: 6 May 85 20:30:41 GMT
Distribution: net
Organization: The Patriarchy of Kzin, Kzin

> I long for the days of my youth, when the entire country sat on the 
> edge of its seat (figuratively speaking) for the entire duration of
> an Apollo mission.  Forget this crock about the declining newsworthy-
> ness of space being an indicator of how commonplace it has become -- 
> I still find it fascinating and wish the media paid more attention!
> 
> Lewis Barnett,CS Dept, Painter Hall 3.28, Univ. of Texas, Austin, TX 78712
> 
> -- barnett@ut-sally.ARPA, barnett@ut-sally.UUCP,
>       {ihnp4,harvard,seismo,gatech,ctvax}!ut-sally!barnett

*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***

     I, too, long for those days and feel the same fascination with space and
space travel that I did in my youth.  It may become "commonplace", but it's
still very interesting for me.

     How many have cut class or gotten up at 2 or 3 in the morning on a school
night and sneaked into the living room to watch a Ranger craft send pictures
back from the Moon?  At age ~8?

     Do any of the networks(CNN, etc.) announce times when they will be
covering these events so that they may be recorded on VCR for viewing at a
later time?

                                 From the alter ego of--

                                 Kchula-Rrit
                                 !menlo70!nsc!nessus

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!ihnp4!phoenix!brent
From: phoenix!brent (Brent P. Callaghan)
Subject: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
Date: 6 May 85 13:21:00 GMT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft NJ

There's a very good book called "A House in Space" (sorry - can't
remember author/publisher) which describes the experiences of
the skylab crews.

The accounts of living in a weightless environment are quite
fascinating.  They had to be careful they didn't inhale small
object (nuts, bolts, erasers etc).  Most of us have witnessed
their space gymnastics performances and running around the
inside of the lab cylinder in self created "gravity".

In this book they describe the problem of drifting away
from handholds while engrossed in some activity.
They COULD swim back to the wall using a vigorous dog-paddle
technique.
-- 
				
Made in New Zealand -->		Brent Callaghan
				AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft, NJ
				{ihnp4|mtuxo|pegasus}!phoenix!brent
				(201) 576-3475

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!princeton!siemens!steve
From: siemens!steve
Subject: Re: Re: Swimming in space
Date: 6 May 85 15:08:00 GMT


If you're fortunate enough to have a ball, you can throw it at the
wall away from where you want to go, giving yourself some momentum
(mv, isn't it?) and then catch it when it bounces back, getting
teh same amount of momentum again (less friction loss, inelasticity
of bounce, etc.)

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!ihnp4!drutx!mtuxo!pegasus!phoenix!brent
From: phoenix!brent (Brent P. Callaghan)
Subject: Re: Swimming in space
Date: 6 May 85 18:12:14 GMT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft NJ

How about jet propulsion !!!

Theory: Take deep breath in desired direction of travel.
        Rotate head 180 deg
        Blow out with puckered lips
        (whistle tune if other crewmembers don't mind)
        Repeat until either:
          - feeling dizzy (breathe in paper bag)
          - enough delta V
          - destination reached (could use retro technique to soft land)

Skillful lip control would gimbal the thrust vector to maintain
attitude and thrust direction.

I'll experiment in 2D next time I go ice skating.

-- 
				
Made in New Zealand -->		Brent Callaghan
				AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft, NJ
				{ihnp4|mtuxo|pegasus}!phoenix!brent
				(201) 576-3475

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!mgnetp!mgweed!prg
From: mgweed!prg (Phil Gunsul)
Subject: Re: Shuttle Coverage on Cable News Network
Date: 6 May 85 18:14:37 GMT
Distribution: net
Organization: AT&T Consumer Products - Montgomery Illinois

[...]

You may wish to write to CNN as I am about to do...

		Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. (TBS)
		1050 Techwood Drive, NW
		Atlanta, GA   30318
		
		Telephone (404)827-1500

Phil Gunsul -- AT&T IS -- Montgomery Works -- (312) 859-4485

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7-May-85 13:10:42 PDT
From: vortex!lauren@rand-unix (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: Expensive alarm clock
To: SPACE@MC.ARPA

OK.  Now I'm mad.  I've been a moderate-level supporter of the space
program up to now, but now they're in trouble.  I mean, let's face it,
a person deserves his sleep right?  Well how is a poor guy supposed
to get rest with a spacecraft sonic booming all over the city!  
A pretty expensive wakeup call, to say the least.  BOOM BOOM!

--Lauren--

P.S.  Just kidding of course.  But I do hope that the landing pattern
used yesterday does not become very "typical" -- it really did
wake me up, and it set off burglar alarms all over the place.

--LW--
 

------------------------------

Date: 7 May 85 20:38:21 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Budget cuts
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

I am not in substantial disagreement with Eugene on the matter of budgets.
Neither I nor others have been lobbying for cuts in planetary programs to
save the space station. We have been lobbying to keep the budget intact. I
would love to see a carrier task force traded away and the resultant funds
switched to useful purposes. Early commercialization of the STS might be
another way to free up funds for the station. It must also be noted that the
space station budget is still not very large, relatively speaking. We could
probably pay for it by using the profits of selling hammers, coffee pots and
steel washers to the DOD...

My ire was directed at those who ARE trying to get other programs cut to
save their own piece. I might add that I have been trying to verify the
rumor that set off my explosion. I have thus far verified that a group of
planetary scientists did indeed approach Sen. Slade Gorton (Majority leader
of the Senate Appropriations Committee) requesting such tradeoffs. I have
not yet verified whether Carl Sagan was one of them, but I'm working on it.

If the planetary scientists are, as a group, attempting to cut other peoples
throats, then I have to begin wondering whether we should turn the other
cheek. (I am of a basically mellow philosophy: let the other guy take the
first swing at you. Then nuke him). I really do doubt that there are a more
than a small handful of planetary scientists who are of this low a moral
caliber.  I find it hard to imagine how anyone could have gotten into
planetary science to begin with without having dreamed of GOING themselves.

If I should come across the names, I will post them so all will know who
they are. A few morons can cause a great deal of harm and generate a great
deal of noise.

It is hard to be anything BUT explosive when you discover others working at
cross purposes for their own selfish ends. I might also make it clear that
although I spend a great deal of time trying to defend the space station
budget, I have nothing to gain from it but hope for the future. I am not now
and have never been employed in any capacity remotely related to NASA or
aerospace. (This is not to say I never will, but if I do it will most likely
be with an entrepreneurial firm intending to build and/or operate it's own
launch vehicles.  My reaction to red tape is to tie knots in it and do what
I want while someone tries to figure out the snarls, so I'd never make it
with any government agency or contractor)

I will also add that my earlier post generated a personal mail response to
me from Louis Friedman, Executive Director of the Planetary Society. If
anyone is interested, I would be more than happy to post his comments.

I will state that he denies the Planetary Society has lobbied against the
space station. As far as I know at this point, as an organization, this
appears to be true. I do not yet know whether the people who run the society
are among those who are attacking the station. I will reserve my judgement
until I find out for sure, and if they are not, I will be more than happy to
apologize to those who happened to be the wrong target.

------------------------------

Date: 7 May 85 20:46:20 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Truax
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

The last time I heard, Truax he was talking about a test launch in a year
or two with a man cramped into a nosecone for a suborbital flight and with a
parachute landing in the ocean. The rocket was at one time named
'Volksrocket'. It consists of various pieces of old rocket hardware plus a
number of Truax designed pieces.

It is also true that he designed the rocket bike the Evil Knevil used in his
attempt to jump the grand canyon. The attempt failed and Evil parachuted
into the canyon.

It is also true that Salvage One with Andy Griffith was somewhat loosely
based on him.

Truax was at one time involved with military rocket design, but I believe he
lost his job during the McCarthy purges. The man is not an amateur.

------------------------------

Date: 7 May 85 20:52:58 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Space Station costs
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

I just reread Gene's post and must correct the numbers. The space station
funding is ~$8B over 10-12 years (A ludicrously long timeframe). The
average funding is in $100M's/year.  The NASA budget is about 6.5B/yr, and I
believe about 50% of that is for aeronautics rather than astronautics. If
anyone is interested in the actual breakdown, I'll try to dig it up and post
it.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 May 85 21:33:15 est
From: Tony Guzzi <tonyg%uconn.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Getting UNSTUCK in the middle of space

This topic of "What do you do if you find yourself floating with nearly no
velocity in a place where you can not reach anything?"  This is a topic that
I think few of us will ever have the possiblity of dealing with but it is an
interesting "thought experiment" (as Albert Einstein calls them).  In the
past, a number of homemade experiments have been suggested here on SPACE
(the paper airplane in zero-g for one), so here is another one.  The topic
could be called "Personal Propulsion Devices".  The experiment would center
around the idea of how to add velocity to a "stationary" astronaut.  This 
first one may sound very silly,  but I am wondering what the effect of giving
a good, hard, long blow in the opposite direction will do.  I do know that
the direction is crucial and may just result in a summersaulting, stationary
astronaut. The second involves a common, ordinary balloon.  The balloon is
blown up, placed near the astronauts center of gravity/mass and the air let
out in the opposite direction the astronaut wants to go.  The third is to use
a pressurized container in place of the balloon (even though some people would
consider balloon as pressurized containers).  The containers could be re-filled
using an ordinary bicycle tire pump.  All these ideas center around the
standard principle that all rockets work by so I think they are theorectically
sound, but as for practicallity, well, I think only "field testing" can really
tell.

						Tony Guzzi
						tonyg%uconn.csnet@csnet.arpa

(If you are wondering why I mentioned using a balloon, a balloon can be easily
carried around in a pocket.  The pressurized container may be bothersome.)

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #152
*******************

09-May-85  0355	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #153    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 153

Today's Topics:
		 Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
		Re: Shuttle Coverage on Cable News Network
			Re: Expensive Alarm Clock
			 "A House In Space" info.
			    swimming in space
		Re: Getting UNSTUCK in the middle of space
		Re: Getting UNSTUCK in the middle of space
			  Re: Swimming in space
		Re. Stuck in Space/Available Reaction Mass
			  Re: NASA Budget Cuts!
			 Proposed rescue mission
		 space station funding/reply to Wheelock
		 Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
				 Landing
		       Re: Available reaction mass
			      Speed Of Light
			 soft drinks in space    
		      Why swimming doesn't work well
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!markb
From: sdcrdcf!markb (Mark Biggar)
Subject: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
Date: 6 May 85 21:34:27 GMT
Reply-To: markb@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Mark Biggar)
Organization: System Development Corp. R+D, Santa Monica

How about blowing?

Mark Biggar
{allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,akgua,sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!markb

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!sabre!zeta!epsilon!gamma!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!cbosgd!ukma!edward
From: ukma!edward (Edward C. Bennett)
Subject: Re: Shuttle Coverage on Cable News Network
Date: 6 May 85 21:27:22 GMT
Distribution: net
Organization: U of Kentucky, Mathematical Sciences, Lexington KY
Summary: A request for more info.

In article <16869@mgweed.UUCP>, prg@mgweed.UUCP (Phil Gunsul) writes:
> Have you thought about a satellite dish?  NASA has two transponders
> that carry about as much info as anyone could possibly want.
> 
> Also it may pay to contact your cable company and ask them if
> this information could be put on as a locally generated
> program.  If you started a call in campaign it may just work...
> 
> Phil Gunsul -- AT&T CP

	Phil, if you have more detail on those transponders, (which
satellite, which frequency etc...) could we have it please. That way,
when we call our respective cable companies we can say..."Yeah, uh,
NASA puts all this information on such 'n such a satellite at such
'n such frequency". That way, they couldn't complain that they don't
know where the information is.

-- 
edward

		 {ucbvax,unmvax,boulder,research}!anlams! -|
			{mcvax!qtlon,vax135,mddc}!qusavx! -|-->	ukma!edward
     {decvax,ihnp4,mhuxt,clyde,osu-eddie,ulysses}!cbosgd! -|

	"Well, what's on the television then?"
	"Looks like a penguin."

------------------------------

Date: 8 May 1985 0939 PST
From: Ron Tencati <TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA>
Subject: Re: Expensive Alarm Clock
To: space@mit-mc
Reply-To: TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA

Lauren may be right, that everyone deserves their sleep.  But for myself
and the rest of the crowd at Edwards' AFB on Monday, those sonic booms
as well as the landing can only be described as SPECTACULAR!

Now I don't feel so bad about paying my taxes...

Ron Tencati
JPL-VLSI.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: Wed,  8 May 85 09:57:00 PDT
From: Kit Weinrichter <GQ.KIT@Forsythe>
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject:  "A House In Space" info.

The author of "A House in Space" is S.F. Henry Cooper. The
copyright date is 1967. The publishers are Holt, Rinehart & Winston.

------------------------------

Date: Wed,  8 May 85 13:30:10 EST
From: Henry Minsky <HQM@MIT-MC>
Subject: swimming in space
To: SPACE@MIT-MC

   I belive that the rocket-propulsion schemes (throwing a ball,
blowing a balloon) are all much much less efficient than something
that involves taking advantage of pushing off of the air itself.
(i.e., heavier than air flight with wings and propellors can be done
with a lot less power than a plain reaction rocket-engine)
   The suggestion of swim fins seems like about the best idea. Maybe in
a pinch you could grasp your shirt in two hands and wave it back and
forth the the tail of a fish. (In sailing, if you are becalmed, and
you pump your tiller back and forth, you get some forward motion)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 May 85 10:45:14 pdt
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
To: tonyg%uconn.csnet@csnet-relay.ARPA, space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: Getting UNSTUCK in the middle of space
Cc: POURNE@MIT-MC.ARPA

	Jerry Pournelle (POURNE@MIT-MC) has suggested ("What's it Like Out
There?" and "Spirals" <with Larry Niven>) that the most popular mode of
transportation in an O'Neill colony would be flying.  Of course, in the
O'Neill colony there would be gravity...

	I can't understand why swimming motions wouldn't work (and didn't,
according to recent postings). After all, motion in a fluid (air) should be
much the same as motion in another fluid (water), and I assure you that it's
possible for buoyant force to just match the gravitational force on a scuba
diver.  Comments from anyone?

					Rick.

------------------------------

To: space@mit-mc.arpa
Subject: Re: Getting UNSTUCK in the middle of space
Date: 08 May 85 11:32:31 PDT (Wed)
From: Martin D. Katz <katz@uci-icse>

I understand that most attempts at throwing something fail to induce the
desired motion because the astronaut doesn't know his center of mass.
Baloons, etc. would have the same problem.

One person suggested blowing.  Because the mouth is near the end of the
body, most of the energy would be converted into rotation unless the person
could blow almost straight up.

Throwing a ball would impart some momentum (mostly rotation).  If the ball
is caught on a single bounce, the momemtum would be almost cancelled.
Catching the ball on a double bounce might double ones momentum (but, the
chances of throwing from the center of mass and then catching to the center
of mass are nearly nil).

In general, I would say that if one wanted to throw something, it would be
better to throw it upward.  The best approach would probably be to swim --
one might be able to use a shirt as either a fin or a sail.

Of course, it would be hard to actually get stuck for long -- the cabin air
is kept in constant motion.  The air flow would eventually move you toward
an air intake.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!lanl!unmvax!unm-cvax!nmtvax!maurice
From: nmtvax!maurice
Subject: Re: Swimming in space
Date: 6 May 85 19:36:40 GMT
Reply-To: maurice@nmtvax.UUCP (Roger M. Levasseur)
Organization: middle-o-nowhere


>I wonder if a change in the ship's velocity would affect the hapless astronaut
>who is hanging in mid-air.


    Yes, it would. It has been noticed that objects that are floating in
mid air will start to drift, or change directions when the control rockets
fire to keep the shuttle pointed the right way, or just change directions.
If it does happen to an object, it should be the same for an astronaut.

Roger Levasseur

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-lymph!arndt
From: arndt@lymph.DEC
Subject: Re. Stuck in Space/Available Reaction Mass
Date: 7 May 85 13:50:20 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network


Er . . . he could have eaten beans before hand.

Regards,

Ken Arndt

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!mhuxt!mhuxr!mhuxn!charm!grl
From: charm!grl (George Lake)
Subject: Re: NASA Budget Cuts!
Date: 7 May 85 13:57:49 GMT
Organization: Physics Research @ AT&T Bell Labs Murray Hill NJ

The implication that NASA budget cuts are to help the poor is
ludicrous.  Is the military sensitive part of NASA getting cut?
NO,  Civilian science? of course.  Are we increasing benefits to
the poor? NO Are we increasing the defense budget?

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcc3!sdcc6!ix241
From: sdcc6!ix241 (ix241)
Subject: Proposed rescue mission
Date: 7 May 85 16:47:15 GMT
Organization: U.C. San Diego, Academic Computer Center
Keywords: Rescue, Hughes

The latest edition of Aviation Leak (May 3?) has a long article on the
proposed rescue mission for the lost Hughes satillite.  The rescue will
probably take place during mission 51-I scheduled in August.

John Testa
UCSD Chemistry
sdcsvax!sdcc6!ix241         

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!mtuxo!mtgzz!dls
From: mtgzz!dls (d.l.skran)
Subject: space station funding/reply to Wheelock
Date: 8 May 85 03:12:02 GMT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Labs, Holmdel NJ
Cc: skran@mordor, ecl@mordor, leeper@mordor, charm!mam >, >>,
        The combined efforts of nearly ALL the other space organizations is lobbying >>,
        AGAINST his Carl's efforts. >, >, This.is.all.new.to.me,
        so I'd appreciate a clearer idea as to whom the >p,
        rincipal.players.referred.to.are,
        and what projects are pushed by Dr. Sagan >a,
        nd company in preference to the space station project.  Do these other >p,
        rojects.lack.validity?


Since you asked, there exists a coalition of pro space station groups that
includes Space Studies Institute, L5, NSI, American Space Foundation,
Spacepac, and SEDS, I believe under the name "National Space Coordinating
Committee." This coalition includes all major groups except the Planetary
Society.

Sagan's projects are mainly more robotic planetary probes. And
of course they are valid, useful scientific projects.

 >     In the same vein, if the funding for the space station is cut back so far
 >that nothing meaningful can be done, is there any sense in tying up the money
 >in futile semi-work instead of using it on a smaller project that can make
 >meaningful use of the money?

With this attitude, we would do nothing but analyze existing data for decades.
Let me put it to you straight: what is one more Titan probe going to do
to move humanity into space any faster? Compared to building a space station?
A reusable orbital transfer vehicle? Demonstrating zero-gee manufacturing?

I support unmanned space exploration, but the time has come to ask: what
are we getting out of it? Will it lead to the discovery of new resources?
Critical probes to near-Earth crossing asteroids and the moon go
by the by for lack of funding while more distant, sexier, targets 
are explored.  Note that yet another probe of Mars was the
first priority at NASA in their new Mariner Mark II program.

 >     What I am suggesting is that space station project supporters are as
 >prone to tunnel vision about their pet project as everyone else.  This does
 >not, however, mean that they are more right or more wrong than those with whom
 >they disagree.  Let us remember that there is more than one Important Project.
 > 
 >                                                         /Bruce N. Wheelock/

Indeed. And every single time the visionary project gets the ax. Unless we
do something about it. The future doesn't just happen. People make it
happen. If you care about mankind having a long term future, write
your Congresscritter now and support the space station.

Dale Skran,
Speaking for himself, as usual.

------------------------------

Date: 8 May 85 15:32:27 PDT (Wednesday)
From: JimDay.Pasa@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA

Why not give each astronaut a beany hat equipped with a small propellor
and a windup motor?

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!wjh12!foxvax1!brunix!alb
From: brunix!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Landing
Date: 7 May 85 18:39:14 GMT
Distribution: net
Organization: Brown University Computer Science

The Challenger landed right on target yesterday
at 1211 EDT at EAFB.  NASA hailed the mission as
a complete success.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!lwall
From: sdcrdcf!lwall (Larry Wall)
Subject: Re: Available reaction mass
Date: 7 May 85 16:09:24 GMT
Reply-To: lwall@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Larry Wall)
Organization: System Development Corp. R+D, Santa Monica

In article <2034@decwrl.UUCP> koch@tallis.DEC (Kevin Koch LTN1-2/B17 DTN229-6274) writes:
>> Subject: Stuck in Space
>> 
>> I recall one story (A.C. Clarke ?) in which someone found himself in
>> such a predicament and used the only available reaction-mass: his shorts.
>> At this point, a visiting Congressman's wife enters and our hero's
>> career suffers a setback.
>
>He could have spat.  A little slower than throwing your pants away, 
>but it would work.

And the Congressman's wife would still have come in, and gotten it in the
face.

Larry Wall
{allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!lwall

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-exodus!harrow
From: harrow@exodus.DEC (Jeff Harrow NCSE TWO/E92 DTN=247-3134)
Subject: Speed Of Light
Date: 8 May 85 14:11:25 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network

There's something I've never quite understood:

Consider the following setup:

\-------/   (Ship #2 going at .9C)	(Laser, at 1.0C)       (Ship #1 at 0.1C)
|	|			>--> ------------------------	>-->
| Earth	|----------------------------------------------------	>-->
|	|  (Laser, going at 1.0C)
/-------\


Now, for simplicity we assume that the Earth has zero velocity (I don't
think this will mess us up):  A laser is fired from Earth which
propagates out at 1.0C (relative to Earth!). 

Ship #1 took off first, a LONG time ago, going in the same direction at
0.1C (relative to Earth!). 

Ship #2 now takes off going at .9C (relative to Earth!) and fires a
SECOND laser in the same direction, said second laser traveling at 1.0C
(relative to Ship #2, NOT to Earth!!). 

Hence, BOTH lasers are going at 1.0C, but RELATIVE TO DIFFERENT BASES.
When both lasers get to Ship #1, won't the laser from Earth have an
apparent speed of .9C (C minus the speed of Ship #1 (.1C)), and won't
the laser from Ship #2 have an apparent speed of 1.8C (.9C Ship #2
velocity plus 1.0C speed of laser minus 0.1C velocity of Ship #1)? 

Now I KNOW that I'm missing some basic concept here because it would
seem that in the first case the ship was GOING FASTER THAN LIGHT,
RELATIVE TO EARTH, and that in the second case the speed of the laser
from Ship #2 was FASTER THAN C (as perceived on Ship #1). 

If C IS relative (perhaps a poor word (or the operative problem?) to be
using here) to a base, then it would seem that MANY thing could go
"faster than light", but if it's NOT relative to a base, "how can that
be"? 

Any good ideas to explain this to a layman? 


Jeff 

Work address: ARPAnet:	HARROW%EXODUS.DEC@decwrl.ARPA
Usenet:		{allegra,Shasta,decvax}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-exodus!harrow
Easynet:	EXODUS::HARROW Telephone:	(617)858-3134
USPS:		Digital Equipment Corp. 		Mail stop:
TWO/E92 		1925 Andover St. 		Tewksbury, MA 
01876 

------------------------------

Date: 08 May 85  2333 PDT
From: Ron Goldman <ARG@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: soft drinks in space    
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

a281  2046  07 May 85
AM-Space Coke,0303
Carbonated Drink May Make Debut On July Space Shuttle Mission
Laserphoto HT2
By PAUL RECER
AP Aerospace Writer
    SPACE CENTER, Houston (AP) - Coca-Cola, which is available virtually
around the world, may be carried into orbit aboard the space shuttle
in July in a special container developed at a cost of more than
$250,000.
    The Coca-Cola Co. announced Tuesday that the special steel can has
solved the problem of keeping carbonated drinks from inadvertently
escaping their containers in the weightlessness and low pressure
inside spacecraft.
    The National Aeronautics and Space Administration confirmed that
discussions with Coca-Cola have been underway and that a test flight
is under study, but Johnson Space Center spokesman Jack Riley said no
agreement has been reached.
    A statement from NASA said the earliest flight under consideration
for the soft drink is the Spacelab 2 mission on space shuttle
Challenger, scheduled for launch on July 15. The mission is a
seven-day flight with a crew of seven.
    A news release by the Atlanta-based Coca-Cola Co. says the company
has spent more than $250,000 to develop the ''Coke Space Can.''
    Conventional drink containers do not work in space, because there is
no gravity to pull the fluid out, so astronauts sip fluids from
straws placed into plastic containers that collapse as they are
emptied.
    Carbonated drinks have the additional problem of spewing under the
force of expanding gas when introduced into reduced pressure. The
space shuttle cabin pressure is reduced to 10.2 pounds per square
inch, compared with a normal sea level pressure of 14, during
preparation for spacewalks.
    According to Coca-Cola, the new ''Space Can'' has an internal
dispensing mechanism that compensates for the absence of gravity. The
package has a drinking spout activated by a lever valve. The can
includes a screw-on safety cap and a safety valve lock.
    
AP-NY-05-07-85 2344EDT
***************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 May 85 23:39:46 est
From: Tony Guzzi <tonyg%uconn.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To: mcgeer%ucbkim%ucb-vax.arpa@csnet-relay.arpa, space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Why swimming doesn't work well

Rick,

  I think the problem has to do with the opposite force that is generated when
a person pushes against something.  The force is the resistance (friction) that
the fluid has to something moving through it.  As I'm sure we are all aware of,
it's easier to move your hand through the air and through an equal volume of
water. It all boils down to Newton's laws of motion, in particular, "For every
action, there is an opposite and equal reaction."  When it comes to moving in
zero-g, its the force that is applied TO the body you want to move that is
important, not the force applied BY the body.  The more solid an object, the
more of the resistance/opposing force is returned.  Brent Callaghan's and my
ideas are based on the idea of concentrating the force and increasing it. To
sum things up, swimming techniques don't work too well because air is to easy
to move through.

						Tony Guzzi
                                      <tonyg%uconn.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #153
*******************

10-May-85  0353	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #154    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 154

Today's Topics:
			    Re: Speed Of Light
		    Bob Truax, and other "cheap shots"
			    Re: Speed Of Light
			    Re: Speed Of Light
			    Re: Speed Of Light
			    Re: Speed Of Light
			      Speed of light
			      Off the wall?
		     Re: Speed Of Light (Jeff Harrow)
		   space station funding/reply to Skran
	       Reply to Re: NASA Budget Cuts! (George Lake)
		      Re: Galileo mission to Jupiter
		     Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
			    Re: Speed Of Light
		      Re: Galileo mission to Jupiter
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 85 11:05:50 pdt
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
To: harrow.exodus@decwrl.ARPA, space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: Speed Of Light

	Many, many, many physics undergraduates have thought of the same
thought experiment, having fallen in to the same trap you did; namely, light
travels at only one velocity (c) and two observers in different inertial
reference frames will measure the same velocity.  Or, to put it better:

Two  ships, A and B, are launched from earth, A travelling at .1 c and B
travelling at .2 c.  A laser on earth is then fired after the ships.
Observers in A report that the beam appeared to travel at c (not .9c) and
observers in B report that the beam appeared to travel at c (not .8c).

	Ah, you say, but A and B are travelling at different velocities wrt
the light source.  Surely this velocity difference, which is real enough
(that is, observers in all three frames would agree with it) must manifest
itself somehow in their observation of the laser beam, and you are correct.
An observer on earth would report that the beam had a wavelength w, an
observer on   A would say w + w0 (w0 > 0), and and observer on B would say
w + w0 + w1 (w1 > 0).

						Rick.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 May 85 11:06 PST
From: Dave Platt <Dave-Platt@LADC>
To: Space <Space@MIT-MC>
Subject: Bob Truax, and other "cheap shots"

An interesting article on "cheap shots" (private, lower-cost
low-earth-orbit launches) appears in the Summer 1985 issue of
"Far Frontiers" (a paperback-format "magazine";  edited by
Jerry Pournell and Jim Baen; published by Baen Books).
The 14-page article, written by G. Harry Stine, mentions the
efforts of Truax, Gary Hudson, Eagle Engineering, SSI, and other
individuals and companies.  The information is not presented in
great depth, but gives a useful overview of the new private-sector
"space race".

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!ut-ngp!mercury
From: ut-ngp!mercury (Larry E. Baker)
Subject: Re: Speed Of Light
Date: 9 May 85 15:45:10 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at Austin

> Hence, BOTH lasers are going at 1.0C, but RELATIVE TO DIFFERENT BASES.
> When both lasers get to Ship #1, won't the laser from Earth have an
> apparent speed of .9C (C minus the speed of Ship #1 (.1C)), and won't
> the laser from Ship #2 have an apparent speed of 1.8C (.9C Ship #2
> velocity plus 1.0C speed of laser minus 0.1C velocity of Ship #1)? 

The light from ship 2 will simply shift to a higher frequency.  This
is known as the Doppler effect.  You can see the same thing happen
with cars and trains -- when a car drives by at 60 miles per hour
blowing its horn, the tone changes as it pass you.  This is due to the
compression of the sound waves as the car is approaching, and the
expansion of the waves as the car departs.

The same is true for light.  Were you a stationary observer in front
(hopefully not directly in front) of ship 2, then you would see laser
light of a much higher frequency as the ship is nearing you, and after
it passed (assuming you're still alive), were it to shine the laser
BACKWARDS, you would see laser light of a much lower frequency.

If the light were 'white' light, then, as the ship approaches, it
would shift to the blue end of the spectrum. (ultraviolet shifting out
of the visible spectrum, most of the other colors also, and infrared
shifting down into the visible spectrum).  As the ship departs, you
would see 'red' light as the infrared shifts DOWN out of the visible
spectrum and ultraviolet shifts down into blue.

This rather shakey explination probably has holes big enough to peg
rocks through, as it is based on Physics that I learned long ago, but
I hope it helps.

-- 
-  Larry Baker @ The University of Texas at Austin
-  ... {seismo!ut-sally | decvax!allegra | tektronix!ihnp4}!ut-ngp!mercury
-  ... mercury@ut-ngp.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!mcc-db!ables
From: mcc-db!ables (King Ables)
Subject: Re: Speed Of Light
Date: 9 May 85 19:25:10 GMT
Organization: MCC (Austin, TX)

The thing you're missing here is that as you begin dealing with speeds
which are significant next to the speed of light, you can't add
them linearly (actually, you can't *really* add ANY velocities linearly).
If you throw a ball ahead of you at 10 mph from a car going 30 mph, we
say the ball has a velocity of 40mph relative to the stop sign you
just ran ( :-) ).  However, that's not *exactly* true.  It's VERY nearly
40mph, but speeds do not add linearly.  It's just that when you're
this far from the speed of light, they add extremely close to linearly.
As you get up to .5C, you begin to see things like (this is an
approximation) .5C +.5C = .75C.  There is a formula (which I cannot
remember right now, unfortunately) which shows how to calculate
vt = v1 + v2 and it has v/C worked into it somewhere.  For velocities near
0.0, v/C is so small that it isn't significant, but as v gets significant
next to C, the v/C value begins to have an effect on vt.

If I can find the formula at home, I'll post it tomorrow, otherwise, I'm
sure someone else knows it and will post it (they may beat me to it, anyway).
Hope this helps.

-King
ARPA: ables@mcc
UUCP: {ihnp4,seismo,ctvax}!ut-sally!mcc-db!ables

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!uwvax!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!spar!freeman
From: spar!freeman (Jay Freeman)
Subject: Re: Speed Of Light
Date: 8 May 85 20:20:55 GMT
Reply-To: freeman@max.UUCP (Jay Freeman)
Organization: Schlumberger Palo Alto Research, CA
Keywords: relativity

In article <2073@decwrl.UUCP> harrow@exodus.DE
(Jeff Harrow NCSE TWO/E92 DTN=247-3134) writes:

>There's something I've never quite understood:
>
>Consider the following setup:
>
>\-------/   (Ship #2 going at .9C) (Laser, at 1.0C)       (Ship #1 at 0.1C)
 |       |           >--> ------------------------
>| Earth |----------------------------------------------------    >-->
>|       |  (Laser, going at 1.0C)
>/-------\
>
>
> ...

Theory and experiment indicate that both laser beams will be  perceived
as moving at 1.0 C both by observers on Earth and on by observers on
each space ship.

Note that the original conclusion, that one observer will see light
moving at 1.8 C and another at 0.1 C, stems from the implicit assumption
that the "right way" to compare speeds is by simple addition and
subtraction:  But this amounts to making an hypothesis about the
physical world, which can be tested by experiment, and so forth.

And the experiments and reasoning associated with the development of
the special theory of relativity have indicated that mere addition and
subtraction are NOT the "right way" to compare speeds. The rule is more
complicated, and it leads to the conclusion that all light beams moving
in vacuum have the same speed as seen by all observers.

When relative speeds are very small, the rule suggested by relativity
reduces to simple addition and subtraction, so that our common-sense
notions are vindicated.  However, common sense is derived from common
experience, and there is no reason to assume that it should apply to
situations and conditions far beyond the everyday.

Flamers will note that there is a lot more that one could say about
these matters :-) ...
-- 
-- Jay Reynolds Freeman (Schlumberger Palo Alto Research)

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!uwvax!astroatc!nic_vax!brown
From: nic_vax!brown
Subject: Re: Speed Of Light
Date: 9 May 85 16:40:47 GMT
Organization: Nicolet Instrument Corp. Madison WI

> There's something I've never quite understood:
> 
> Consider the following setup:
> 
> \-------/   (Ship #2 going at .9C)	(Laser, at 1.0C)       (Ship #1 at 0.1C)
> |	|			>--> ------------------------	>-->
> | Earth	|----------------------------------------------------	>-->
> |	|  (Laser, going at 1.0C)
> /-------\
> 
[]
Help me net, but light can't go faster than light.  If a laser is fire from
a moving ship, that laser's speed will be 1.0C relative to EARTH.

If, and mean a big IF, a ship could travel at say, 1.5C, then a laser that
was fired would end up being passed by the ship as it fired it.  The laser
probably couldn't even get started as the ship was going faster than the
light it was trying to create.

Another good point, how can anyone see anything inside of a ship that was
going the speed of light or faster?  The whole spectrum would be shifted
so that we couldn't see anything.
-- 
              |------------|
              | |-------| o|    JVC HRD725U 
Mr. Video     | |       | o|  |--------------|
              | |       |  |  | |----| o o o |
              | |-------| O|  |--------------|
              |------------|     VHS Hi-Fi (the only way to go)
   (!ihnp4!uwvax!astroatc!nic_vax!brown)

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!brl-tgr!jcp
From: jcp@brl-tgr.ARPA (Joe Pistritto <jcp@brl-tgr.ARPA>)
Subject: Speed of light
Date: 9 May 85 20:53:07 GMT
Organization: Ballistic Research Lab


	The effect your forgetting in the two lasers in space problem
is known as the Lorentz transformation.  Basically, the velocities don't
add linearly because TIME is lengthened by an amount which is related to
one over the square root of the quantity (1 - v/c).  You will note that
as v (velocity) approaches c (the speed of light), the quantity approaches
zero, so the fraction approaches infinity.  This gives the effective
slowing of time as c is approached.  This also has the effect of reducing
velocity (velocity is defined as distance over time...).  Since the
fraction is asymptotic as v approaches c, you are guaranteed never
to exceed c.  (The physics types call this 'an important theoretical
result', meaning if you prove it wrong, you get a Nobel Prize, no questions
asked!)

							-JCP-

PS: Lorentz already got his prize, but they don't take them back if your
theory is proved wrong, so don't let that hold you back...

------------------------------

Date: 9 May 85 22:27:19 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Off the wall?
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

I suspect flatulance can cause some interesting aerobatics...

------------------------------

From: crash!bnw@SDCSVAX.ARPA
Date: Thu, 9 May 85 10:38:17 PDT
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Subject: Re: Speed Of Light (Jeff Harrow)

     I've seen this kind of problem before.  It stems, in part, from the
problem of mounting a machine gun on a jet that flies faster than the muzzle
velocity of the gun.
     The simplest way to explain this is that the speed of light (C) is an
absolute constant that is relative to the universe itself and not conditioned
by the contents of the universe.  The universe has rules, and you can't break
the rules by going faster.
                                                         /Bruce N. Wheelock/
                        arpanet: crash!bnw@ucsd
                           uucp: {ihnp4, cbosgd, sdcsvax, noscvax}!crash!bnw

------------------------------

From: crash!bnw@SDCSVAX.ARPA
Date: Thu, 9 May 85 10:36:12 PDT
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Subject: space station funding/reply to Skran

     Fact of life--budgets are going to get cut.  There is no sense pretending
otherwise.  Yes, chopping NASA funds is stupid; it sells the future short.
And, yes, I have written to Senator Wilson to tell him how I feel.
     What I was trying to say is that when the cuts come anyway, it would be
better to spend the money on something that will generate a result.  We still
have a lot to learn and one never knows what benefit may be gained by some new
bit of knowledge until it happens.  Think of all the research that would never
have been done if nobody could predict a benefit.
     We also have some learning to do before we put a space station up there.
There are a lot of techniques and technologies involved that have not been
shown to be workable as yet.  The shuttle has proven a good many things,
including the fact that a pretty fair number of spacecraft systems have a
tendency to breakdown under the load.  That won't do in a space station.
                                                         /Bruce N. Wheelock/
                        arpanet: crash!bnw@ucsd
                           uucp: {ihnp4, cbosgd, sdcsvax, noscvax}!crash!bnw

------------------------------

From: crash!bnw@SDCSVAX.ARPA
Date: Thu, 9 May 85 10:34:29 PDT
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Subject: Reply to Re: NASA Budget Cuts! (George Lake)

>Are we increasing benefits to the poor? NO
 
     Although I feel the concept of cutting NASA's budget for any reason is
foolish and may be called criminal by future generations, Mr. Lake has mis-
understood the argument just slightly.  It isn't that the money cut from NASA
has been given over to welfare/poor.  Rather, cutting x dollars from NASA
supposedly means that x dollars don't have to be cut from programs for the
poor.
     This is, of course, stupid.  The whole of NASA's budget is only a small
fraction of the welfare budget.  DOD probably spends more money running
officer and enlisted clubs (read "bars"), swimming pools, golf courses, and
similar non-essentials.  [Before anyone jumps on me for this last, I'm
active duty career military.  They are supposed to be my benefits.  I say that
they ARE unimportant.  Cut them, not NASA.]
                                                         /Bruce N. Wheelock/
                        arpanet: crash!bnw@ucsd
                           uucp: {ihnp4, cbosgd, sdcsvax, noscvax}!crash!bnw

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!princeton!astrovax!escher!doug
From: escher!doug (Douglas J Freyburger)
Subject: Re: Galileo mission to Jupiter
Date: 9 May 85 04:34:24 GMT
Organization: NASA/JPL, Pasadena, CA

> The Orbiter will fly within a few hundred kilometers of the 
> surface of Mars. The Orbiter will use Mars' gravity and a long 
> burn of its own rocket motor to boost it the rest of the way to 
> Jupiter. 

This manuever and the fly-by of an asteriod near its projected
flight path were still up in the air last I heard.  By the way,
the advantage of the burn close to Mars is that the kinetic
energy difference in relation to the sun is gained by the space
craft.  Losing the mass inside the gravity well gains that much
energy from Mars's gravitational field.  I went over the
equations on that several years ago before I believed it.  Don't
remember it exactly anymore.

> The Orbiter will complete 11 orbits of Jupiter while making a 
> close flyby of one Galilean satellite - Io, Europa, Ganymede or 
> Callisto - on each orbit.

The only time it will get close to Io is on the first pass.
There is too much radiation that deep in, so most of the mission
is being kept farther out.  Still, the craft will get more than
enough Rads to fry any of us.

DOUG@JPL-VLSI, ...trwrb!escher!doug, etc.
Douglas J Freyburger

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!mit-eddie!think!pbear!peterb
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
Date: 7 May 85 22:47:00 GMT




Dick,

I'm sorry, I should have stated that when someone was on an EVA, take
the paper airplane and THROW it toward the ground and against the orbit.
I think (don't have a simulator handy) that this would cause the paper
airplane to leave orbit and start a reentry. As the density of the air
increases, the paper airplane would(should) stabilze itself and slow down
at a fast enough rate (since it's drag/weight is quite high) to prevent it
from burning up when it hits the heavier atmosphere. The only problem
I can see is how longit would take to reach a stabilized position.

Peter Barada
ima!pbear!peterb
ihnp4!inmet!pbear!peterb

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!mcc-db!ables
From: mcc-db!ables (King Ables)
Subject: Re: Speed Of Light
Date: 10 May 85 01:03:45 GMT
Organization: MCC (Austin, TX)

[Aha! I knew I kept those notes from Physics for something!]

The formula for adding velocity vectors (assuming you accept Einstein's
Special Theory of Relativity rather than Newtonian physics) is:

			   v1 + v2
		V      = ------------
		 total      (v1)(v2)
			 1+ --------
				 2
				C

As v1 and v2 tend to "small", the denominator tends to "insignificantly
larger than 1", so the whole fraction tends to (v1+v2)/1 which is what
we normally think of.  If we're adding .5c and .5c, we get a more
complicated answer.  The denominator is significantly larger than 1, so
the total is significantly < v1+v2.

-King
ARPA: ables@mcc
UUCP: {ihnp4,seismo,ctvax}!ut-sally!mcc-db!ables

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!brl-tgr!jcp
From: jcp@brl-tgr.ARPA (Joe Pistritto <jcp@brl-tgr.ARPA>)
Subject: Re: Galileo mission to Jupiter
Date: 10 May 85 02:26:18 GMT
Reply-To: jcp@brl-tgr.ARPA (Joe Pistritto <jcp>)
Organization: Ballistic Research Lab


	Ok, I've heard lots of times about the 'gravity assist'
maneuver used to sometimes dramatically increase the speed of
a spacecraft by flying close to a bigger mass.  Now the question
is, how does this work?  I understand that you would gain energy
by dropping weight when inside a gravity well (and having the
velocity vector pointed so that you could make it out, now lighter
and requiring less energy), but is that the ONLY cause of the
acceleration?  I thought that this effect was also due to rotating
the velocity vector of the spacecraft.

	I've also heard that the maneuver works best when you get
closest to the object being slingshot off of.  Is this true?
(it would seem so)

						-JCP-

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #154
*******************

11-May-85  0353	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #155    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 155

Today's Topics:
			      Getting Stuck
			   re:  Speed of light
				  truax
	   Atmospheric drag, speed-of-light (universal rules?)
		     Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
			    Re: Speed of light
		   space station funding/reply to Skran
			    Gravity Slingshots
		      Re: Galileo mission to Jupiter
		     Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
			  Re: NASA Budget Cuts!
			 cancel <1488@orca.UUCP>
			    Re: Speed Of Light
			    re: Speed of Light
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Friday, 10 May 1985 07:31-EDT
From: jrv@Mitre-Bedford
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject: Getting Stuck

I would think that the obvious method of propulsion in zero-G would be
wings (or maybe your shirt, in an emergency).    - Jim Van Zandt

------------------------------

Date: 10 May 1985 09:29:24-EDT
From: rachiele@NADC
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: re:  Speed of light


The basis of the theory of relitivity is that the speed of light is
Always the same, regardless of your velocity.  Think of the speed of light
as the limit of all velocity, and light particles having infinate speed (but
limited by C).  Thus, light moves at C, even if you are going at .99C relitive
to some other object.
            Jim Rachiele
              (rachiele@nadc.arpa)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 85 07:59:36 pdt
From: conrad <@csnet-relay.arpa,@ucsc.CSNET (Al Conrad):conrad@ucsc.CSNET>
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: truax

I spoke with Robert Truax last month at the "Future Expo" in San Francisco
where he had a booth to drum up money.  His project is now called "Project
Private Enterprise".  He had his rocket there (which fits on a trailer that
could be pulled by a truck).  Evidently, they are coming up on the parachute
deployment test, in which they drop it from a helicopter.  The pacing item
for the test launch was the arrival of some new component for the rocket
engine.  The plan is still to shoot the astronaut up 50 miles (loose definition
of 'in space') and out over the Pacific Ocean.  Potential launch sites include
the place in Oxnard that is building the fake space hotel, a spot near
Monterey, and I believe a spot near San Diego.

I visited Truax at his home several times seven years ago and, in my oppinion,
his project is making methodical (albeit slow) progress.  As before, we talked
mostly about his use of computers, which in the past were used exclusively for
the collection and analysis of rocket test data.  He now, however, is using
a personal computer for the pre-launch checklist and this may evolve into a
semi-automated launch sequence.

I think projects like Truax's need the support of space enthusiasts.  Did
anyone catch the public television, Martin Sheen special on the history of
space exploration that aired last night?  The documentary showed that
throughout history space enthusiasts start out as idealistic innovators, but
inevitably get sucked into huge military projects (V2, ICBM, SDI, ... )
because that's where the resources are.

Al Conrad

------------------------------

Date: 10 May 1985 0732 PST
From: Richard B. August <AUGUST@JPL-VLSI.ARPA>
Subject: Atmospheric drag, speed-of-light (universal rules?)
To: space-enthusiasts@mit-mc
Cc: crash!bnw@dcsvax
Reply-To: AUGUST@JPL-VLSI.ARPA

>From: crash!bnw@SDCSVAX.ARPA
>Date: Thu, 9 May 85 10:38:17 PDT
>To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
>Subject: Re: Speed Of Light (Jeff Harrow)
>
>     I've seen this kind of problem before.  It stems, in part, from the
>problem of mounting a machine gun on a jet that flies faster than the muzzle
>velocity of the gun.
>     The simplest way to explain this is that the speed of light (C) is an
>absolute constant that is relative to the universe itself and not conditioned
>by the contents of the universe.  The universe has rules, and you can't break
>the rules by going faster.
>                                                         /Bruce N. Wheelock/
>                        arpanet: crash!bnw@ucsd
>                           uucp: {ihnp4, cbosgd, sdcsvax, noscvax}!crash!bnw



     When  you mention "...the problem of mounting a machine  gun 
on  a jet that flies faster than the muzzle velocity of the  gun" 
are  you  alluding to the phenomenon of the  expelled  projectile 
loosing  velocity  after leaving the muzzle?  This is actually  a 
result  of  atmospheric  drag causing  the  projectile  to  loose 
energy.  As we learned at Pensacola,  FL "...after firing a short 
burst...pull up!"
     You  also  mention that "The universe has  rules,  and  you 
can't break the rules by going faster". This assumes that we know 
all the rules.

Regards,
Richard
------

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!zehntel!dual!ames!eugene
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
Date: 8 May 85 00:47:06 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

At the Ames Research Center, we have about two dozen wind tunnels used to
test a variety of conditions.  They range in different air velocities,
pressures, and other conditions.  Recently in Science, the editor made a
some what bogus statement that computers have replaced wind tunnels.

You may have seen in recent postings that there is debate about where
money is spent in NASA [say: not on the Space Shuttle or not on the Space
Station].  My immediate supervisor calls Ames "part of the little A in
NASA" meaning "Aeronautics."  We are poorly funded by comparison to the
Shuttle or Space Station although the tiles were developed here [not the
glue!] and we sometimes live off the perpheral edges of the Shuttle and
Station.  This situation tends to worry some people here.  What does this
have to do with airplanes?

Many months ago, the Associate Director of NASA, Hans Mark, stopped by here.
He noted the above concern and he pointed out that we use wind tunnels
as test beds to reentry design.  He suggested that we start to consider
the Space Station as the next platform (testbed) from which to start
scale models reentering the earth's atmosphere (rather than a wind tunnel).
Our 'arm" will be the space station, and while the planes won't be made of
paper, this idea is under consideration.

Second note: Re: stuck in space.  There are films from the Skylab days
showing swimming motions in the air without the benefit of pushing off
walls or objects.  It's slow, but you get there.

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,decwrl,allegra}!ames!aurora!eugene
  @ames-vmsb.ARPA:emiya@jup.DECNET

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 10 May 85 10:02 CDT
From:  Slocum@HI-MULTICS.ARPA
Subject:  Re: Speed of light
To:  Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Organization:  Honeywell Computer Sciences Center, Bloomington MN

The speed of light is one of those things that always gets people mixed
up.  The speed of light is constant in all frames of reference.  In the
example you described, the two light beams would both be going at C, but
their wavelengths would appear different to the observer in Ship1.  The
beam from ship2 would be blue-shifted.  You would have to do some
reading to get a better explanation.  Asimov probably has something that
explains this well.  I woudl suggest Asimov's three part physics book.
I don't remember the title, but it is excellent.  It also goes through
most of modern physics in a very reasonable understandable way.

Brett Slocum
   (ARPA: Slocum@HI-MULTICS)
   (UUCP: ...ihnp4!umn-cs!hi-csc!slocum)

------------------------------

Date: Friday, 10 May 1985 12:16-EDT
From: jrv@Mitre-Bedford
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject: space station funding/reply to Skran

>      We also have some learning to do before we put a space station up there.
> There are a lot of techniques and technologies involved that have not been
> shown to be workable as yet.  The shuttle has proven a good many things,
> including the fact that a pretty fair number of spacecraft systems have a
> tendency to breakdown under the load.  That won't do in a space station.
>                                                      /Bruce N. Wheelock/

Why not?  Breakdowns aren't that big a deal if there's someone there with
the knowledge and tools to fix them.  Life support systems have to work,
of course - but even there the backup systems only have to work long
enough to get the primary systems running again.

L-5 News had a thought-provoking article a while back on the premise that
we're overkilling the engineering of the space station because we're
designing it like an aerospace vehicle (which has to survive acceleration
loads, shocks, and vibrations, and which may fall out of the sky if
something goes wrong) instead of like a building (which can normally be
repaired if it breaks).
					   - Jim Van Zandt

------------------------------

Date: 10 May 1985 09:00-PDT
From: king@Kestrel.ARPA
Subject: Gravity Slingshots
To: space@mc

In what follows I will assume that the traveler wants to enlarge
his/her/its orbit (No Carbon Chauvanism!)

Heuristically, you gain in two ways from a gravity slingshot:

1> Suppose you don't ignite your rocket, but you pass the massive
object on its trailing side in its orbit.  You get a forward component
to your velocity vector.  In the object's frame of reference, your
speed remains the same but your direction has shifted "forward".

2> If you accelerate at perigee, you add to your speed.  You could have
done that burning anywhere, but in addition to the additional speed YOU
LOSE LESS SPEED CLIMBING OUT OF THE GRAVITY WELL THAN YOU GAINED GOING
IN, BECAUSE YOU CLIMB OUT FASTER THAN YOU WENT IN.

-dick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 May 85 10:57:33 pdt
From: Ross Finlayson <rsf@Pescadero>
Subject: Re: Galileo mission to Jupiter
To: space@mit-mc

The way I've always understood this is as follows:
If the gravity assisting planet (Mars say) were \stationary/ (wrt. some fixed
reference point), then after the gravity assist, the spacecraft's 
velocity (wrt. the reference point) would be unchanged, except for direction.
In practice, however, the planet is \itself/ in motion (around the Sun), so 
some of the planet's kinetic energy (and thus velocity) is transferred to the
spacecraft.  That is, gravity assist works because the planet effectively
"drags along" the spacecraft, not just because the planet is "sitting there".

Please correct me if this is wrong.

	Ross.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 May 85 11:00:33 pdt
From: Ross Finlayson <rsf@Pescadero>
Subject: Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
To: space@mit-mc

It seems to me that you would have to throw the paper airplane awfully hard in
order for the resulting velocity (vector) to produce a trajectory that reenters
the Earth's atmosphere.  Otherwise even the mildest burst of the shuttle's
attitude jets might cause reentry!  Don't forget how large an orbiting
shuttle's velocity vector is relative to the Earth.

	Ross.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!orca!andrew
From: orca!andrew (Andrew Klossner)
Subject: Re: NASA Budget Cuts!
Date: 10 May 85 02:54:15 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Wilsonville OR

[]

	"The best argument I can think of to pursuade the
	non-space-interested citizen that NASA budgets should not be
	cut is to ask them where we would be today if, in 1492, Queen
	Isabella had given Columbus's funding to the poor instead.  If
	no-one had funded Columbus (and successors) can you imagine how
	overcrowded Europe would be today if all the people here of
	European ancestry were born there instead.  Also, look at how
	many millions of people world-wide are now fed by our huge
	grain farms both here & in Canada, etc.  Who, in 1492, could
	have imagined 747's capable of delivering 200,000 pounds of
	food from the US to Africa in half a day?  Who, in 1985, can
	imagine what immense benefits will flow to Earth from Mars, the
	asteroids, etc. in 500 years?"

Columbus was an Italian citizen who couldn't get his government to fund
his exploration, so he went to the foreign government of Spain.  By
analogy, then, Americans seeking funding for space exploration should
go to another powerful country.  Perhaps Japan.

The argument doesn't hold up for other reasons.  If Spain had refused
Columbus and he had given up, someone else would have come along.
Columbus was by no means unique; there were other explorers in that era
who had non-government funding.  When it's time to railroad, you
railroad.

Please post articles on this subject to net.space only, leaving
net.columbia off the list, as I have.  Net.columbia is meant for
discussions of on-going space shuttle missions only, and is read by
people who want to keep up on day-to-day space operations.

  -=- Andrew Klossner   (decvax!tektronix!orca!andrew)       [UUCP]
                        (orca!andrew.tektronix@csnet-relay)  [ARPA]

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!orca!andrew
From: orca!andrew
Subject: cancel <1488@orca.UUCP>
Date: 10 May 85 02:51:12 GMT
Control: cancel <1488@orca.UUCP>
Reply-To: andrew@orca.UUCP (Andrew Klossner)
Organization: Tektronix, Wilsonville OR

<1488@orca.UUCP> cancelled from rn.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxm!mhuxi!vax135!miles
From: vax135!miles (Miles Murdocca)
Subject: Re: Speed Of Light
Date: 10 May 85 12:18:59 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ

>> ...  An introductory dialogue to a scenario of spacehsips and lasers
>> to ask the question:

> If C IS relative (perhaps a poor word (or the operative problem?) to be
> using here) to a base, then it would seem that MANY things could go
> "faster than light", but if it's NOT relative to a base, "how can that
> be"?

The key to all of this relativity stuff is who the observer is.  You
mentioned that the lasers and ships were going at velocities relative
to some other objects (like Earth, or the ships) so you are halfway
there.  Now, let yourself be the observer (in the ship farthest away
as you had suggested).  The ship with the laser will appear to be moving
through a much shorter distance than it actually is (space shrinks for
a moving body), and the observed speed of light will remain the same.

I am not a physicist, but I am told by a physicist friend that it is
not known whether or not it is possible to go faster than the speed of
light.  But if a body moves faster than the speed of light, then it
can't move slower than the speed of light.  The transition can't be
made.

    Miles Murdocca, 4B-525, AT&T Bell Laboratories, Crawfords Corner Rd,
    Holmdel, NJ, 07733, (201) 949-2504, ...{ihnp4}!vax135!miles

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!houxm!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!uw-june!dtuttle
From: dtuttle@uw-june.ARPA (David C. Tuttle)
Subject: re: Speed of Light
Date: 10 May 85 05:42:30 GMT
Organization: U of Washington Computer Science

Well, there's nothing like a layman that can (try to) explain things to
another layman, so concerning the Speed of Light problem, I'll give it a
shot (trying to remember my sophomore-level physics from 6 years ago):

> \-------/   (Ship #2 going at .9C)  (Laser, at 1.0C)       (Ship #1 at 0.1C)
> |	 |			>--> ------------------------	>-->
> | Earth|----------------------------------------------------	>-->
> |      |  (Laser, going at 1.0C)
> /-------\

> Ship #1 took off first, a LONG time ago, going in the same direction at
> 0.1C (relative to Earth!). 
> Ship #2 now takes off going at .9C (relative to Earth!) and fires a
> SECOND laser in the same direction, said second laser traveling at 1.0C
> (relative to Ship #2, NOT to Earth!!). 
> Hence, BOTH lasers are going at 1.0C, but RELATIVE TO DIFFERENT BASES.
> When both lasers get to Ship #1, won't the laser from Earth have an
> apparent speed of .9C (C minus the speed of Ship #1 (.1C)), and won't
> the laser from Ship #2 have an apparent speed of 1.8C (.9C Ship #2
> velocity plus 1.0C speed of laser minus 0.1C velocity of Ship #1)? 

The problem here is thinking of relativistic speeds as being LINEAR.
In fact, they are NOT (0.9c + 0.9c does NOT equal 1.8c).
Instead, the speed of light is ASYMPTOTIC.  
A ship traveling at 0.9c would view a laser overtaking it at 1.0c as going
by at 1.0c, not 0.1c (although it might be severely blueshifted (?))!

So, when you say the second laser travels at 1.0c relative to Ship #2, but
not to Earth, that is wrong.  It is 1.0c relative to ALL frames of reference.
In fact, "relativity" is a misnomer in that sense, because the speed of 
light comes out as absolute as ever!  The only difference in the lasers will
be that of the Doppler effect (redshift and blueshift).

So, any ship approaching 1.0c can still be passed by light at 1.0c, thus
the ship can never bridge that gap and travel at lightspeed...

True physicists are now free to punch holes in this layman's arguments.
============================================================================
"No matter where you go, there you are..."		David C. Tuttle
			-- Buckaroo Banzai		Computer Sci. Dept.
							U. of Washington

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #155
*******************

12-May-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #156    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 156

Today's Topics:
		 Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
		Re: Shuttle Coverage on Cable News Network
		       Learning for Space Station?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!hplabs!hpda!fortune!polard
From: fortune!polard (Henry Polard)
Subject: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
Date: 10 May 85 16:13:57 GMT
Reply-To: polard@fortune.UUCP (Henry polard)
Organization: Fortune Systems, Redwood City, CA

In article <1637@mordor.UUCP> @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC:hqm@SCRC-STONY-BROOK.ARPA writes:
>From: Henry Minsky <hqm@SCRC-STONY-BROOK.ARPA>
>
>
>  This is something I have wondered about for a long time:  If you are
>in the middle of a large air-filled room in zero-g, and you find
>yourself with no velocity, is it possible to "swim" to one of the walls,
>i.e., by flapping your arms, kicking your legs, waving your shirt...
I heard that the Challenger astronoauts could move around with a rapid 
doggie-paddle swimming stroke.  I guess moving in air is somewhat like 
moving in water.  You might also move yourself by blowing hard.




-- 
Henry Polard (You bring the flames - I'll bring the marshmallows.)
{ihnp4,cbosgd,amd}!fortune!polard
N.B: The words in this posting do not necessarily express the opinions
of me, my employer, or any AI project.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!asgb!tomm
From: asgb!tomm (Tom Mackey)
Subject: Re: Shuttle Coverage on Cable News Network
Date: 11 May 85 20:54:19 GMT
Organization: Burroughs Corp. ASG, Boulder Colo.

> I long for the days of my youth, when the entire country sat on the 
> edge of its seat (figuratively speaking) for the entire duration of
> an Apollo mission.  Forget this crock about the declining newsworthy-
> ness of space being an indicator of how commonplace it has become -- 
> I still find it fascinating and wish the media paid more attention!
> 
> 
> Lewis Barnett,CS Dept, Painter Hall 3.28, Univ. of Texas, Austin, TX 78712

I agree!  I have had the pleasure of being directly involved with the space
shuttle (HRSI project at LMSC) and would love to see better news coverage.
If anyone out there is connected with netwok news coverage, consider this my
vote for improved coverage of all space missions.  I get particularly
dissapointed when I get up several hours early to watch the shuttle liftoff
only to find nothing on but inane early morning talk shows.  Even CNN has of
late been letting us down.

Tom Mackey
Burroughs ASG
{sdcsvax sabre}bmcg!asgb!tomm

------------------------------

Date: 11 May 85 22:05:48 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Learning for Space Station?
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

I seriously doubt there is a great deal that we REALLY need to learn to put
up a space station. Much research WILL be done, because that is the nature
of NASA. The true facts are, the space station is nothing but an enginerring
project, requires essentially no new learning to be done on the ground, and
could best be done by getting the damn thing up and dealing with the
problems by making the necessary ECO's on orbit. This would get us a station
in a few years at a fraction of the NASA cost. But it is not much use
griping, because at the moment NASA is the only game in town, inefficient or
not. Besides which, if they had to ship up spare parts because the
thermostat failed, can you imagine the difference in headlines between a
NASA and a private station?

	NASA (front page): Astronauts Saved From Frigid Fate: Congress to
			    Investigate

	Private (buried in business section):
			   Thermostat Shipped to Space Station

I can hardly wait until in-orbit failures and repairs are as newsworthy as
fixing a sportscar on an interstate. (Hopefully though, the station will be
slightly more reliable than the MG I used to drive)

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #156
*******************

13-May-85  0351	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #157    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 157

Today's Topics:
		Re: Getting UNSTUCK in the middle of space
			     Re: Funding wars
		    Speed Of Light (explain this too)
		  Re:  Speed Of Light (explain this too)
			   Shuttle TV coverage
		 Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #148
			    Re: Speed Of Light
		 Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!sun!amdahl!ems
From: amdahl!ems (ems)
Subject: Re: Getting UNSTUCK in the middle of space
Date: 11 May 85 06:11:33 GMT
Organization: Circle C Shellfish Ranch, Shores-of-the-Pacific, Ca

> an ordinary bicycle tire pump.  All these ideas center around the
> standard principle that all rockets work by ...ically

Er, one could, um, auh, ynow, use a, er liquid jet.  After coffee
one has at least a pint or so of 'reaction mass'.  Just a thought ...
and only in an emergency ...
-- 

E. Michael Smith  ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems

Tilapia Zilli is the way and the light.

This is the obligatory disclaimer of everything.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!mtuxo!mtgzz!dls
From: mtgzz!dls (d.l.skran)
Subject: Re: Funding wars
Date: 10 May 85 22:25:31 GMT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Labs, Holmdel NJ


You have correctly identified Dr. Van Allen as one of the
"big name" scientists who oppose manned space flight. He has
spoken against both the space shuttle and the space station.

For a history of a scientist who started out against the
space shuttle and switched sides, read Dr. Brian O'Leary's
"Project Space Station." Dr. O'Leary is now one of the
foremost advocates of the space station.

The time has come to ask: What do we need more - scientists studying
the atmosphere of Titan or scientists developing resources in space
for Earthly benefit?

I'd love to have both, but ...

Speaking for himself,
Dale Skran

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ukma!sean
From: ukma!sean (Sean Casey)
Subject: Speed Of Light (explain this too)
Date: 11 May 85 01:56:56 GMT
Organization: The White Tower @ The Univ. of KY
Summary: Another Illustration


My example is something that has been bothering me for years.

	Ship A  (v = .6c)				Ship B  (v = .6c)
------------------------------>
				<------------------------------

Consider yourself to be aboard ship A.  Assume there are no stars, no points
of reference except ship B.  To you, your ship appears to be standing still.
According to relativity, when ship B flys by, it is approaching you at no more
than c.

How can this be?  Time dilation?  How can time dilation be a function of speed,
when speed is a meaningless concept without references?
-- 
-  Sean Casey
- 
-  UUCP:	{hasmed,cbosgd}!ukma!sean  or  ucbvax!anlams!ukma!sean
-  ARPA:	ukma!sean<@ANL-MCS>  or  sean%ukma.uucp@anl-mcs.arpa
- 
- 		"We're all bozos on this bus."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 May 85 14:00:39 pdt
From: Rick McGeer <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
To: anlams!ukma!sean@Berkeley
Subject: Re:  Speed Of Light (explain this too)
Cc: space@mit-mc.ARPA

	Well, in fact you are observing the objects A and B from a third
reference frame with observer, C, and we presume that observers in A,
B, and C all have meter sticks, clocks and what have you.  From
the question we say that in C's reference frame, both A and B are
moving in one dimension on opposite vectors with velocity .6 c.  The question
is, in A's reference frame, what is B's velocity?  From Tipler, pg 680,
we obtain:

u(x') = (u(x) - v)/(1 - v u(x) / c^2)

where v is the velocity of A in the frame of C, u(x) is the velocity of B
in the frame of C, and u(x') is the velocity of B in the frame of A.  Solving
for u(x) = -v = -.6c, we get:

u(x') = -1.2c/1.36

or almost exactly -.97c.

					Rick.

ps -- the formula I gave above can be obtained by differentiating the
Lorentz Transform:

x' = gamma (x - vt)

where v is the velocity of the frame S' in terms of the frame S.

					R.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 May 85 14:21:28 pdt
From: Ross Finlayson <rsf@Pescadero>
Subject: Shuttle TV coverage
To: space@mit-mc

  	I get particularly dissapointed when I get up several hours early to
	watch the shuttle liftoff only to find nothing on but inane early
	morning talk shows.  Even CNN has of late been letting us down.

NBC seems to be far and away the best of the three broadcast networks in this 
respect.  In the Pacific time zone at least, it showed (albeit brief) live
coverage of the last two shuttle launches.  Each time, CBS and ABC stayed 
with their chat shows.  So, kudos to NBC for giving us even this paltry amount
of coverage.  As much as I hate to admit it, though, I think we have to
resign ourselves to the fact that as shuttle flights become more and more 
routine, public interest, and thus TV coverage, is going to wane even further.

	Ross.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcc3!sdcc13!ee163ahj
From: sdcc13!ee163ahj (PAUL VAN DE GRAAF)
Subject: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
Date: 11 May 85 13:31:32 GMT
Reply-To: ee163ahj@sdcc13.UUCP (PAUL VAN DE GRAAF)
Organization: U.C. San Diego, Academic Computer Center

[]
	Pardon me for suggesting, but couldn't the astronaut just relieve 
himself (herself) in the opposite direction.  While this rather messy, and
certainly more embarassing than removing his shorts.  I'm sure it would be
effective, and if he's stuck there, the call to nature will come along soon
enough.  A bit faster and just as directional as blowing/whistling might be.

I'm sorry I brought it up...

Paul van de Graaf		sdcsvax!sdcc13!ee163ahj		U. C. San Diego

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!randvax!kovacs!rivero
From: kovacs!rivero (Michael Foster Rivero)
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #148
Date: 9 May 85 16:16:36 GMT
Organization: Robt Abel & Assoc, Hollywood

Summary:Truax and Kneival
Expires: 
Sender: 
Reply-To: rivero@kovacs.UUCP (Michael Foster Rivero)
Followup-To: 
Organization: Robert Abel and Associates, Hollywood
Keywords: Truax, Rocket, Kneival

In article <> @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC:lazear@mitre.ARPA writes:
>From: Walt Lazear <lazear@mitre.ARPA>
>
>Regarding Bob Truax, I seem to remember interviews with him on TV.
>I may be entirely wrong, but didn't he build the rocket that Evil
>Kneival used to try to jump the Snake River?  It was either that,
>or he was trying to drum up backing for his private efforts to
>provide civilian space launches.  Can anyone confirm the Kneival
>connection?
>	Walt (Lazear at MITRE)


	  Truax did indeed build the steam rocket that Kneival used is
	his  Snake River jump.  The rocket was fueled (I recall ) with
	a Hydrogen Peroxide  plus  catalyst  (Potassium  Permangenate,
	maybe) steam jet, but failed in its jump when the bolt holding
	the parachute release mechanism failed during the launch.

	  Apparently,  this   one   critical   component   was   never
	magnafluxed  to  check  for  cracks.  The  reason?  Not enough
	money.  (Congressional members please note.)


					Michael Rivero

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!cbosgd!ukma!edward
From: ukma!edward (Edward C. Bennett)
Subject: Re: Speed Of Light
Date: 11 May 85 02:32:08 GMT
Organization: U of Kentucky, Mathematical Sciences, Lexington KY

[ Eat at Joe's ]

	You're misinterpreting your own diagram. Light always travels
a c. The speed of it's source is irrelevant. Ship B (the one @ 0.1c)
will observe the two laser beams to be identical. They'll be red-shifted
due to B's motion, but identical.

I think.

-- 
edward

		 {ucbvax,unmvax,boulder,research}!anlams! -|
			{mcvax!qtlon,vax135,mddc}!qusavx! -|-->	ukma!edward
							   |
		{decvax,ihnp4,mhuxt,seismo}! -+-> cbosgd! -|
		{clyde,osu-eddie,ulysses}! ---|

	"Well, what's on the television then?"
	"Looks like a penguin."

	()
	|
        |--		Support barrier free design
       /|---
      |     \  _
       \___/ \=

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!orca!warner
From: orca!warner (Ken Warner)
Subject: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
Date: 11 May 85 16:34:23 GMT
Reply-To: warner@orca.UUCP (Ken Warner)
Organization: Tektronix, Wilsonville OR

[BUGS]
A while back, I made a suggestion of little note regarding getting
caught with your velocity down. It was to arm each astronaut with
a spring loaded dart gun. The dart would have some sticky stuff on 
the end and would trail a light weight line. It was proposed to 
be used on EVA's in the event the jet pack failed. But here
is another chance to disregard the idea. :^>

Ken Warner

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #157
*******************

14-May-85  0352	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #158    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 158

Today's Topics:
			Speed of Light and beyond
		Re: Getting UNSTUCK in the middle of space
			   Re:  speed of light
		  Re: Speed Of Light (explain this too)
			  Challenger Back at KSC
			   Swimming in air, etc
			     Re: Budget cuts
		      Re: Galileo mission to Jupiter
			  Re: Swimming in space
		 questions about the theory of relativity
		    HELP REQUEST FOR SIMULATION COURSE
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 May 1985 0947 PST
From: Ron Tencati <TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA>
Subject: Speed of Light and beyond
To: space@mit-mc
Reply-To: TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA


I know this is impossible, but what would happen if...

A ship could exceed the speed of light?  When the space shuttle crosses the
sound barrier, there is a sonic boom.  If it were possible to cross the
"light barrier", what phenomenon would result?

Ron Tencati
JPL-VLSI
------

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!lanl!jkw
From: jkw@lanl.ARPA
Subject: Re: Getting UNSTUCK in the middle of space
Date: 13 May 85 18:47:53 GMT
Sender: newsreader@lanl.ARPA
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory

> > an ordinary bicycle tire pump.  All these ideas center around the
> > standard principle that all rockets work by ...ically
> 
> Er, one could, um, auh, ynow, use a, er liquid jet.  After coffee
> one has at least a pint or so of 'reaction mass'.  Just a thought ...
> and only in an emergency ...
> -- 
> 
> E. Michael Smith  ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems
> 
> Tilapia Zilli is the way and the light.
> 
> This is the obligatory disclaimer of everything.


...Not to mention that the, er, uh, spigot or um, nozzle, is fairly near
the center of gravity...

------------------------------

Date:     Monday, 13 May 85 22:21:58 EDT
From:     lucas (pete lucas) @ cmu-psy-a
Subject:  Re:  speed of light
To:       space @ mit-mc.ARPA

If you'd really like to get a handle on this relativity stuff relatively
painlessly, let me suggest that you go to the horse's mouth:  There is a
marvelous little book called "Relativity: The Special and General Theory, A
Popular Exposition" by one A. Einstein.  Let me quote from the author's
Preface:
        The present book is intended, as far as possible, to give an exact
        insight into the theory of Relativity to those readers who, for a
        general scientific and philosophical point of view, are interested
        in the theory, but who are not conversant with the mathematical
        apparatus of theoretical physics.  The work presumes a standard
        of education corresponding to that of a university matriculation
        examination, and, despite the shortness of the book, a fair amount
        of patience and force of will on the part of the reader....
The book was written in 1916, but the reference for my copy is  New York:
Crown Publishers, 1961.
				-Pete Lucas, CMU

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!eder
From: ssc-vax!eder (Dani Eder)
Subject: Re: Speed Of Light (explain this too)
Date: 11 May 85 20:20:42 GMT
Organization: Boeing Aerospace Co., Seattle, WA

> 
> My example is something that has been bothering me for years.
> 
> 	Ship A  (v = .6c)				Ship B  (v = .6c)
> ------------------------------>
> 				<------------------------------
> 
> Consider yourself to be aboard ship A.  Assume there are no stars, no points
> of reference except ship B.  To you, your ship appears to be standing still.
> According to relativity, when ship B flys by, it is approaching you at no more
> than c.
> 
> How can this be?  Time dilation?  How can time dilation be a function of speed,

     You have contradicted yourself.  If there are no external reference
points, then there is no way to measure Ship A as moving at 0.6c to the
right.  It moving to the right implies to the right WITH RESPECT TO THE
CRT SCREEN, ie an external reference.  Ship B will appear to be moving
towards you at .882c.  You will appear to yourself to be moving at v=0.
The relative velocity will be less than c.

     Dani Eder / Boeing Company / ssc-vax!eder

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!mhuxt!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Challenger Back at KSC
Date: 12 May 85 00:15:29 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

Challenger returned to KSC atop a 747 today, after leaving EAFB
yesterday and spending the night in Texas.  It will be readied
for another Spacelab flight, due to take off on 15 July.  Meanwhile,
Discovery is being prepared for its 14 June liftoff; it is
scheduled to carry three communications satellites and a
scientific payload.  Atlantis is being prepared for its maiden
launch, a secret DoD mission, in September.

------------------------------

Date: 13 May 85 23:20:59 EDT
From: JoSH <JoSH@RUTGERS.ARPA>
Subject: Swimming in air, etc
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

"Swimming" in air is no different from swimming underwater, except that
air is 800 or so times less dense than water, so you obtain 800 times
less impetus from a given stroke.  Of course the stroke is easier to
make, but not 800 times so.
 I have found (by experiment) that one can obtain 5 or so pounds of
thrust in air using a large (12") model airplane propellor and an 
electric motor small enough to hold in one hand (from a weed trimmer,
if you're interested).  An average person could get 1 f/s^2 out of
this, so only a few seconds of use would be needed for any one movement.
Thus I would expect that a unit with fold-up prop, rare-earth motor,
and nicads could be built to last a normal day's use without recharging
and be a conveniently clip-on-belt sized item.

--JoSH
-------

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Budget cuts
Date: 12 May 85 00:17:10 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

> ...he denies the Planetary Society has lobbied against the
> space station. As far as I know at this point, as an organization, this
> appears to be true. I do not yet know whether the people who run the society
> are among those who are attacking the station...

The Planetary Society is essentially a wholly-owned subsidiary of Carl
Sagan.  Not literally, but that's the practical result.  Checking up
on him should suffice.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Galileo mission to Jupiter
Date: 12 May 85 05:16:05 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

> 	Ok, I've heard lots of times about the 'gravity assist'
> maneuver used to sometimes dramatically increase the speed of
> a spacecraft by flying close to a bigger mass.  Now the question
> is, how does this work?  I understand that you would gain energy
> by dropping weight when inside a gravity well (and having the
> velocity vector pointed so that you could make it out, now lighter
> and requiring less energy), but is that the ONLY cause of the
> acceleration?  I thought that this effect was also due to rotating
> the velocity vector of the spacecraft.

There are two separate types of maneuver here.  One, classically called
a "gravity-well" maneuver, flies very close to a large mass so that an
engine burn can be made at the lowest possible potential energy.  The
other, often called a "gravity-boost" maneuver, is a three-body maneuver
(the Sun is usually the third body) using gravity alone to transfer some
momentum from a large body to the spacecraft.

The gravity-well maneuver exploits the difference between momentum and
kinetic energy to give the spacecraft higher final velocity.  How much
velocity you gain from an engine burn is a matter of momentum; how much
you gain or lose to a gravity field is a matter of energy.  Since energy
is proportional to the *square* of velocity, and leaving a gravity field
subtracts a fixed amount of energy, the higher the velocity with which
you start to leave a gravity field, the less velocity you lose to gravity.
So an engine burn's effect is magnified if you fly into a handy gravity 
field before making it.  The scales remain balanced:  you carry the fuel
down with you and don't bring it back up, so it loses energy.

The gravity-boost maneuver exploits relative motions.  With respect to
Jupiter, flying past Jupiter will only rotate your velocity vector, and
cannot change its magnitude.  The key is the words "with respect to
Jupiter".  If what you care about is velocity with respect to something
else, and Jupiter is moving with respect to that something else, then
you can gain or lose velocity.  In the limiting case, an extremely tight
hyperbola whips you around an almost 180-degree turn with respect to
Jupiter.  You leave heading almost exactly back along your approach path.
So Jupiter-relative Vdepart = -Vapproach.  If your approach was, say,
along Jupiter's orbit in the reverse direction, then viewed from the Sun
you were moving at Vapproach-Vjupiter on the way in, and on the way out
you're at Vdepart-Vjupiter = -Vapproach-Vjupiter = -(Vapproach+Vjupiter).
So your Sun-relative velocity vector has been flipped 180 degrees (hence
the minus sign), but has also had 2*Vjupiter added to it.  There is nothing
magic about it, since Jupiter has lost the same amount of Sun-relative
momentum you've gained.  But considering the relative masses, a given
amount of momentum matters a lot more to you than to Jupiter!

It is, of course, possible to combine the two effects.

> 	I've also heard that the maneuver works best when you get
> closest to the object being slingshot off of.  Is this true?
> (it would seem so)

Both types of maneuver work best if you get as close as you can.  The
gravity-well maneuver works best if you convert as much potential energy
as possible into kinetic energy first.  The gravity-boost maneuver's
results depend on how far your velocity vector rotates with respect to
the body you're flying past; the closer the approach, the sharper the
turn.  Of course, you can only fly so close without hitting something.
There was some interest in arranging Voyager 2's Neptune flyby to send
it on to Pluto, but somebody calculated the approach distance and it
came out to be several hundred kilometers *below* the cloud tops...
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!petrus!karn
From: petrus!karn
Subject: Re: Swimming in space
Date: 11 May 85 01:43:10 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Inc

>     Yes, it would. It has been noticed that objects that are floating in
> mid air will start to drift, or change directions when the control rockets
> fire to keep the shuttle pointed the right way, or just change directions.
> If it does happen to an object, it should be the same for an astronaut.

Of course, what's REALLY happening is that the objects remain stationary
in their inertial reference frame, while the ship accelerates "around" them.

I recall seeing a brief but amusing clip from one of the shuttle missions.
Whenever one of the astronauts would release a roll of duct tape, it would
slowly accelerate towards the right and bounce off the wall. If the astronaut
let go of the handle he was holding, he'd also drift to the right and
hit the wall. Obviously, an orbit maneuver was going on, but the orbiter
is so massive that the acceleration given by the OMS is pretty small
(1/2 m/sec/sec, depending on fuel and cargo load, seems about right from
memory).

Phil

------------------------------

Date:     Mon, 13 May 85 20:36 CDT
From:     Patrick_Duff <pduff%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To:       Space@mit-mc.ARPA
cc:       Physics@sri-unix.ARPA, SF-Lovers@rutgers.ARPA
Subject:  questions about the theory of relativity


   While space-digest is answering questions from people who have always
been bothered by some aspect of the theory of relativity, I have a few
which have been puzzling me for some time.

   Is it theoretically possible to create a device which, after being
"locked" onto an object (e.g., the Earth), could always tell you your
velocity relative to that object (even after a period of near-light speed
travel, various maneuvers, etc.)?  I'm not talking about a computer which
would perform calculations based upon a history file of past accelerations,
but rather a "device" which reacts to the accelerations it experiences.
What about a "clock" which would always tell you the time & date on the
other object?  It seems to me that if you can make either one you can make
the other one as well;  they are *almost* the same device, aren't they?
If these devices are possible, would they require lots of mass (as massive
as a planet, perhaps?) to achieve reasonable accuracy over inter-stellar
distances, or could they be something more like a wrist-watch?

An early science fiction book (\Skylark/ by E. E. Doc Smith) had another
interesting device which was something like a compass;  where-ever you were
in the universe, it would point at whatever you had "locked" it onto (the
farther away you were from the object, the longer it took the needle to
stop moving, or the more power you had to feed it, or something like that;
at one point the characters in the story measured this to find out not only
the direction, but also the approximate distance to the object).

   In science fiction stories, the ease with which ships travel through time
without traveling through space has always bothered me.  If you could
exchange one of the three space axes for a time axis (such as inside the
event horizon of a black hole?), travel along it, and then rotate back, then
to move 1 second you would have to travel approximately 186,000 miles.  Am 
I missing something here?  Also, what difference would it make whether you 
traveled that distance at a slow speed (.001 c) or a fast speed (.999 c)?
Does such travel avoid any cause/effect paradoxes?  After all, you would be
staying within the cause/effect light-cone, wouldn't you?

   Finally (for now anyway), I have heard it said that Einstein's theory of
relativity could be replaced by a quantum theory of gravity.  I'm unconvinced;
it seems to me that they concern fundamentally different aspects of the 
universe.

   regards, Patrick

   Patrick S. Duff, ***CR 5621***          pduff.ti-eg@csnet-relay
   5049 Walker Dr. #91103                  214/480-1659 (work)
   The Colony, TX 75056-1120               214/370-5363 (home)
   (a suburb of Dallas, TX)

------------------------------

Date:     Mon, 13 May 85 21:53 CDT
From:     Warren_Moseley <moseley%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To:       SPACE@mit-mc.ARPA
cc:       MOSELEY%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
Subject:  HELP REQUEST FOR SIMULATION COURSE










     I TEACH A GRADUATE COURSE IN SIMULATION IN THE  COMPUTER  SCIENCE


DEPT  AT  NORTH  TEXAS STATE IN DENTON TEXAS.  I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR


SOME EXCITING PROJECTS TO GIVE TO GRADUATE STUDENTS  IN  THE  AREA  OF


SIMULATION.  I THINK IT WOULD BE EXCITING IF I COULD GIVE THEM A SPACE


RELATED PROJECT.  ANYBODY GOT ANY GOOD SUGGESTIONS.  THIS NEEDS TO  BE


A  SOFTWARE PROJECT, AND WE ARE LIMITED TO VAX 780, AND IBM 4300.  ANY


SUGGESTIONS FOR  TOOLS,  REFERENCES,  TEXTS,  AND  EXAMPLES  WOULD  BE


APPRECIATED.   I  AM  INTENSLEY  INTERESTED  IN  SPACE AND THE RELATED


SUBJECTS AND  WOULD  LIKE  TO  GIVE  MY  GRADUATE  STUDENTS  A  REALLY


CHALLENGEING  PROJECT.  THIS IS DREAMING A LITTLE, BUT IF A REASONABLE


SIZE PROJECT THAT COULD HELP  IN  OUR  CURRENT  SPACE  EXPLORATION  IS


AVAILABLE I AM GAME TO TAKE THAT ON.





     SECOND QUESTION?  CAN  ANYONE  TELL  ME  WHERE  I  COULD  GET  AN


ACCURATE  DESCRIPTION  OF WHAT HAPPENED ON APOLLO 13.  THE SEQUENCE OF


EVENTS THAT LEAD UP TO THE PROBLEM, WHAT HAPPENED, AND  WHAT  HAPPENED


ON  THE  WAY  HOME.  I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN CURIOUS ABOUT THAT MISSION AND


WOULD LIKE TO DO A LITTLE HISTORICAL READING.





     WARREN MOSELEY





     MOSELEY@TI-EG

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #158
*******************

15-May-85  0350	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #159    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 159

Today's Topics:
	      Re:  questions about the theory of relativity
		   Book and Author on Apollo 13 Flight
		   Results of 'Speed Of Light' question
		     Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #158
			  Re: Swimming in space
	       RE: questions about the theory of relativity
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:     Tue, 14 May 85 7:06:31 EDT
From:     Doug Gwyn (VLD/VMB) <gwyn@Brl.ARPA>
To:       Patrick_Duff <pduff%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
cc:       Space@mit-mc.arpa, Physics@sri-unix.arpa, SF-Lovers@rutgers.arpa
Subject:  Re:  questions about the theory of relativity

>    Is it theoretically possible to create a device which, after being
> "locked" onto an object (e.g., the Earth), could always tell you your
> velocity relative to that object (even after a period of near-light speed
> travel, various maneuvers, etc.)?

Not really, because it would have to know all about the structure of the
region of space(-time) it was operated in.  If you happen to know what the
structure is (e.g., essentially flat in intergalactic space), then a close
approximation could be done by keeping track of perceived accelerations.

If the "other object" were another spaceship, it would be even harder,
since the device would also have to know how the other object was moving.

>				     I'm not talking about a computer which
> would perform calculations based upon a history file of past accelerations,
> but rather a "device" which reacts to the accelerations it experiences.

What's the difference?

> What about a "clock" which would always tell you the time & date on the
> other object?

Similar situation.  Both cases assume that there is a meaning to where
the distant object "really is" and what its time "really is"; in general
there is no single answer to these questions.

>    In science fiction stories, the ease with which ships travel through time
> without traveling through space has always bothered me.

Gee, I find it easy to move through time without moving through space.
Rip van Winkle found it even easier..

>    Finally (for now anyway), I have heard it said that Einstein's theory of
> relativity could be replaced by a quantum theory of gravity.

Funny how the people who say this haven't been able to do so.

>								I'm unconvinced;
> it seems to me that they concern fundamentally different aspects of the
> universe.

Yes, indeed.  More relevantly, their conceptual foundations are quite
dissimilar.  General relativity (more precisely, generalized field theory)
is best expressed as a theory about an objective reality.  Quantum theory
(QED, QCD) fundamentally denies this.  Both theories are claimed to work;
no single theory has yet been able to unify these two.  Most recent such
attempts start from the quantum approach; Einstein started from the field
theory approach.  There are some striking similarities in some of the
resulting technical details (e.g., non-Abelian gauge groups for "internal"
symmetries) but there are still considerable differences in the concepts.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 May 85 12:29:30 PDT
From: Kit Weinrichter <GQ.KIT@Forsythe>
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject:  Book and Author on Apollo 13 Flight

There is a book called "Thirteen The Flight That Failed" It is by
S.F. Henry Cooper. The copywrite date is 1972 and it is by Dial
Press.

To:  SPACE@MIT-MC

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-exodus!harrow
From: harrow@exodus.DEC (Jeff Harrow NCSE TWO/E92 DTN=247-3134)
Subject: Results of 'Speed Of Light' question
Date: 13 May 85 14:18:52 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network

Well, when I posed the 'speed of light' question, I didn't know just
what type of responses to expect... 

I'd like to say "Thanks" to all of you who responded to this layman's
request.  To provide just a bit of background, I've been a sci-fi. addict
for 25 years, and have been familiar with the authors' perceived EFFECTS
of time dilation, etc, but couldn't reconcile that with my Newtonian
concepts of the perceived low-C world. 

The explanations which I received were, by and large, excellent, and
since most were posted to this net, I won't bother to repeat them. 

I will say, however, that the ability to ask a question and receive
personalized explanations from notable experts in the field represents
one of the most fantastic educational opportunities which exist in the
world today!! 

Anybody who questions the "worth" of the phone bills that support the
net should give it a try! 


Jeff 


Work address:
ARPAnet:	HARROW%EXODUS.DEC@decwrl.ARPA
Usenet:		{allegra,Shasta,decvax}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-exodus!harrow
Easynet:	EXODUS::HARROW
Telephone:	(617)858-3134
USPS:		Digital Equipment Corp.
		Mail stop: TWO/E92
		1925 Andover St.
		Tewksbury, MA  01876

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!utcs!mnetor!fred
From: mnetor!fred (Fred Williams)
Subject: Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
Date: 13 May 85 14:33:11 GMT
Reply-To: fred@mnetor.UUCP (Fred Williams)
Organization: Computer X (CANADA) Ltd., Toronto, Ontario, Canada

In article <3000002@pbear.UUCP> peterb@pbear.UUCP writes:
>
>Dick,
>
>I'm sorry, I should have stated that when someone was on an EVA, take
>the paper airplane and THROW it toward the ground and against the orbit.
>I think (don't have a simulator handy) that this would cause the paper
>airplane to leave orbit and start a reentry. As the density of the air
>increases, the paper airplane would(should) stabilze itself and slow down
>at a fast enough rate (since it's drag/weight is quite high) to prevent it
>from burning up when it hits the heavier atmosphere. The only problem
>I can see is how longit would take to reach a stabilized position.
>
>Peter Barada
>ima!pbear!peterb
>ihnp4!inmet!pbear!peterb

	From a practical standpoint, the astronaut would have to have an
awefully good arm. Depending on the orbit, the paper plane would
need a velocity of several thousand miles per hour with respect
to the spacecraft. I can't see the plane being thrown faster than
20 or 30 mph. considering that the thrower would be in a space suit.
Even if you postulate a mechanical throwing device, it would probably
destroy a paper plane, ( I think certainly, but I won't go overboard).
	So what would have to be done is go into re-entry orbit and eject
the paper plane by some means.
	NOW! *Just how do you intend to observe what happens?*

Cheers,		Fred Williams

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 May 85 18:48 EDT
From: kyle.wbst@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #158
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: kyle.wbst@Xerox.ARPA

    re:"can  anyone  tell  me  where  i  could  get  an
    accurate  description  of what happened on apollo 13..
      -moseley@ti-eg.."

See back issues of Aviation Week & Space Technology magazine for the
most comprehensive writeup that should be available in most big
libraries.

If memory serves me well what happened is the following:

One of the oxygen bottles in the service module (the part right behind
the command module where the crew rides) exploded on the way to the moon
and blew a big hole in the side of the craft. This disrupted the fuel
cell power to the c/m so the fix was to climb into the attached lunar
module and ride in it all the way around the moon and back to earth
(thus aborting the lunar landing attempt). The L/M engines were used for
mid course corrections as the gimballed service module engine and the
GP/FPI (gimbal position fuel pressure indicator) display were out of
commission in the command module.  The ground had to radio up new info
for the l/m guidance system to accomodate this unexpected configuration
of it handling not only itself, but also the service module/command
module stuff still attached to the  whole rig. Upon approach back to
earth, the crew climbed back into the command module and got rid of the
l/m and the damaged s/m and used battery power to fire up the reaction
control system on the c/m to orient it for proper re-entry which went
well and commander Jim Lovell and crew lived. If the explosion had
happened on the way back from a lunar landing, then they would have had
no l/m attached to use as a "life boat" and they would have died.

The oxygen bottle exploded because a new heater element used to boil off
the gas from its liquid state and maintain pressure in the system was
damaged during ground testing because the ground test documentation had
not been updated and thus the new part was stressed. In space the
stressed heater element (which was inside the gas bottle) broke down ,
sparked and the rest is history.

Aviation Leak had very good pictures of the damage taken by the crew as
they jettisoned the damaged service module prior to earth landing.

The fact that they were able to survive this disaster is a tribute to
the design philosophy of the Block II Apollo system which (unlike the
earlier Block I design of ill-fated fire on the pad fame) allowed for
virtual real-time system reconfiguration to meet certain contingencies.

Earle Kyle.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!mcnc!rti-sel!rtp47!throopw
From: rtp47!throopw (Wayne Throop)
Subject: Re: Swimming in space
Date: 13 May 85 22:13:55 GMT
Reply-To: throopw@vm.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE)
Organization: Data General, RTP, NC

In article <478@nmtvax.UUCP> maurice@nmtvax.UUCP (Roger M. Levasseur) writes:
>
>>I wonder if a change in the ship's velocity would affect the hapless astronaut
>>who is hanging in mid-air.
>
>    Yes, it would. It has been noticed that objects that are floating in
>mid air will start to drift, or change directions when the control rockets
>fire to keep the shuttle pointed the right way, or just change directions.
>If it does happen to an object, it should be the same for an astronaut.
>
>Roger Levasseur

Well, if you ignore air resistance and such, a change in ship's velocity
would NOT affect the floating astronaut.  Which of course means that as the
vehicle accelerates, it bangs into the floating astronaut.  In other words,
it doesn't much matter whether an astronaut is inside the spacecraft or not,
s/he stays put and the craft accelerates.  The nice thing about being inside
is that no matter which way the craft departs, a wall eventually collides
with the occupant and takes him/her along.
-- 
Wayne Throop at Data General, RTP, NC
<the-known-world>!mcnc!rti-sel!rtp47!throopw

------------------------------

Date:     Tue, 14 May 85 19:58 CDT
From:     Patrick_Duff <pduff%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To:       Space@mit-mc.ARPA
cc:       Physics@sri-unix.ARPA, SF-Lovers@rutgers.ARPA
Subject:  RE: questions about the theory of relativity


   By now, most readers should have had an opportunity to reach their own
opinions concerning the questions I posed.  Now that 24 hours has passed
since I mailed my last message, let me throw in a few of my opinions.

>   Is it theoretically possible to create a device which, after being
>"locked" onto an object (e.g., the Earth), could always tell you your
>velocity relative to that object (even after a period of near-light speed
>travel, various maneuvers, etc.)?  I'm not talking about a computer which
>would perform calculations based upon a history file of past accelerations,
>but rather a "device" which reacts to the accelerations it experiences.
>What about a "clock" which would always tell you the time & date on the
>other object?  

   What's missing here is the unspoken assumption that the object does not
accellerate after it is "locked" onto (I suppose one could compensate for
predictable accellerations, such as those due to the object's orbit (e.g.,
the Earth's orbit around Sol)).  An alternative (though much less useful)
is to have a device which would be "reset" (perhaps while on the ground
before takeoff) and would then give the velocity or time & date at that
point in space (which will soon be empty as the planet moves on) relative
to you regardless of subsequent manuevers.

   My opinion is yes, they are theoretically possible.  Practical
complications abound however.  For instance, you would have to consider the
accelerations experienced while moving in a gravitational field (such as
when passing near a black hole).  In the case of the clock, since the rate
at which it would register passing time would change over a wide range, a
purely mechanical solution is difficult.  In some situations it would need
to move so slowly that vibration, friction and random molecular motions
(heat) would become overriding influences.  In other situations the various
parts of the mechanism would need to move extremely rapidly.  These
problems could be solved if the device were able to automatically change
scales (e.g., one revolution of an indicator used to mean one week passing
on the object, but now it means one hour passing) whenever things started
going too slowly (or too quickly).

   I don't know whether you could do these operations without keeping a
history of past accellerations.  What I'd prefer is a device which simply
changes its current operation in direct response to an accelleration it is
currently experiencing.

>An early science fiction book (\Skylark/ by E. E. Doc Smith) had another
>interesting device which was something like a compass;  where-ever you were
>in the universe, it would point at whatever you had "locked" it onto (the
>farther away you were from the object, the longer it took the needle to
>stop moving, or the more power you had to feed it, or something like that;
>at one point the characters in the story measured this to find out not only
>the direction, but also the approximate distance to the object).

   In \Skylark/ the power to the compass was turned on only when a reading
was needed (at least, that's the way I remember it happening).  It seems to
me that you would need to power such a device continuously unless it used
a history file. 

   What I'm discussing in the above paragraphs are some of the instruments
which would be needed on a ship capable of traveling at relativistic
velocities.  When such a ship needs to know where to aim its communication
laser, what frequency or bit-rate to use, when to start sending it, the
distance to another object, how to rendezvous with another ship, etc., the
instruments which are used today on sea-going ships and orbital vehicles
are completely inadequate.  We know enough right now to write programs for
all of the necessary calculations;  can someone who has experience as a
navigator, communicator, etc. suggest a list of what calculations would be
needed to answer all of the questions which would arise in the operation of
such a ship?

>   In science fiction stories, the ease with which ships travel through time
>without traveling through space has always bothered me.  If you could
>exchange one of the three space axes for a time axis (such as inside the
>event horizon of a black hole?), travel along it, and then rotate back, then
>to move 1 second you would have to travel approximately 186,000 miles.  Am
>I missing something here?  Also, what difference would it make whether you
>traveled that distance at a slow speed (.001 c) or a fast speed (.999 c)?
>Does such travel avoid any cause/effect paradoxes?  After all, you would be 
>staying within the cause/effect light-cone, wouldn't you?

    Since travel along the time-axis while it is exchanged with one of the
space axes is space-like and hence limited by the speed of light, this
implies that the rate at which one can travel through time (at least, by
this method) is also limited.  

    The question about the velocity of travel along the time axis really 
opens up a can of worms.  Relativistic effects are tied to gravitational
phenomena;  what would a gravitational field look like while travelling 
along a rotated time axis?  It seems to me that any velocity-related 
effects would operate in a time-like manner on the space-like time-axis;
in other words, some kind of "meta-time" (I don't know what it is, but
it was fun to include it!).

    As for cause/effect paradoxes, upon reflection I now realize that when
you exchange a time-axis with a space-axis, you will actually be operating
outside the cause/effect light-cone, not inside it as I had originally
imagined.

   regards, Patrick

   Patrick S. Duff, ***CR 5621***          pduff.ti-eg@csnet-relay
   5049 Walker Dr. #91103                  214/480-1659 (work)
   The Colony, TX 75056-1120               214/370-5363 (home)
   (a suburb of Dallas, TX)

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #159
*******************

16-May-85  0350	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #160    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 160

Today's Topics:
		     Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
		     Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
	Swimming, the speed of light, and gravity-assist maneuvers
		     Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
			    Re: Speed of Light
			  Re: Gravity slingshots
			  Re: Gravity slingshots
	Re: Budget cuts (really asinine political generalizations)
			  Re: Truax, Evil Knevil
			    Re: Speed of Light
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!pbear!peterb
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
Date: 13 May 85 15:43:00 GMT




Ross,

Remember the mass of the orbiter also. the mildest burst would barely change
the velocity vector of the orbiter. On the other hand a peper airplane's
weight is measured in grams, and it would be quite easy to impart a velocity
of tens of meters per second to a paper airplane by using a slingshot. even
throwing one by a good pitcher would imaprt about 20 m/s to the airplane.

Peter Barada
{ihnp4!inmet | harvard!ima}!pbear!peterb

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!pbear!peterb
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
Date: 14 May 85 18:46:00 GMT



Fred,

If you want to observe it, make it out of steel and use ground radar.
As for needing thousands of MPH difference to inject it into reentry,
look at skylab. It came down on drag alone. I am not implying a shuttle
rentry orbit, just a reentry. A meter per second against the orbit would
cause the airplane to drop into a lower orbit. If you applied about 10G
using a slingshot, I think you could easily acheive reentry insertion,
but the reentry would take quite a number of orbits  until drag from the
atmosphere would pull it in for good.

Anybody out there have the equations handy (I don't have my physics book
at work) I would like to run up a simulation of this. Mail it and comments
to me

Peter Barada
{ihnp4!inmet | harvard!ima}!pbear!peterb

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-pen!kallis
From: kallis@pen.DEC
Subject: Swimming, the speed of light, and gravity-assist maneuvers
Date: 14 May 85 13:24:16 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network


	three things have occupied this netfile for the past few days: 1)
trying to explain a seeming (Newtonian) paradox concerning two space-
craft approaching each other at near-luminal speeds, 2) getting "unstuck"
from the middle of a spacecraft/space station in 0 g, and 3) explaining
the "slingshot effect."
	Throwing in my $0.02 worth ---
	1) Tachyon theory indicates that things either can go slower than or
faster than c, but never achieve c.  If this is correct (and there is no
theoretical reason it might not be), it leads to all sorts of interesting
speculation as how on may nbe able to transfer from one state to the other;
relatively meaningless now, but perhaps of interest to our grandchildren.
	2) On getting "unstuck": one first has to get stuck.  It would be 
fairly difficult for anyone in a low-Earth orbit to _get_ stuck.  Even
if such a person were boundand gagged and put in still air in the midst
of a spacecraft chamber, the gravity gradient between the far side and the
near side of the spacecraft/station would eventually result in a reposi-
tioning of the victim (unless you managed to place him or her _exactly_
at the center of mass -- and then, it would be his or her centers of mass
that would have to be at that point).  Of course, any slight maneuver of
the spacecraft also would remove the difficulty.
	3) As explained in some of the previous communications, there is a
transfer of energy from the planet to the spacecraft using the slingshot
effect.  This slows the planet down minutely -- There Ain't No Such Thing
As A Free Lunch, as has been said.  From a practical standpoint, the planet
is affected minimally, therefore, the presumed "free ride" for the probe.
	It's very important to understand the elements of energy transform-
ation and transfer, or it's easy to fall into traps.  A book of the late
1940s, _Rockets and Jets_ by Herbert Zim, once tried to explain orbital
decay by strength-of-gravitational-field at different gradient points
(in a **far** more popular way than the foregoing) without factoring in
atmospheric drag.  To a layman, this would imply that things lose momentum
in high-gravity environments: I don't know if the author was careless
or confused.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!sabre!zeta!epsilon!gamma!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!phoenix!brent
From: phoenix!brent (Brent P. Callaghan)
Subject: Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
Date: 13 May 85 18:58:02 GMT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft NJ

I can imagine a couple of problems with paper airplane
reentry via an EVA hand launch:

1) Surely an encumbered astronaut couldn't impart nearly
   enough delta V to the airplane to cause it to reenter.
   Wouldn't it just fall into an orbit a few hundred
   feet lower ?  Perhaps a rubber slingshot would be more
   effective.

2) Observing yon reentering paper airplane would be next
   to impossible.  An embedded thin wire along the keel
   could be used as a dipole transponder perhaps, but
   measuring its attitude etc would be out of the question.
   We're really not up to avionics for paper airplanes yet.

I have a great idea for a skydiver/stuntman: do an EVA
in all the NASA garb.  Use the mobility unit to provide
deorbit delta V then discard.  At entry interface, before the
heat becomes too much for the suit, deploy a drogue chute and
make a prolonged, low temperature reentry.  It may take a full
orbit to keep temps within limits.  Skydive down to a few
thousand feet and deploy a ram air parachute.  
Pretty good stunt huh ????
-- 
				
Made in New Zealand -->		Brent Callaghan
				AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft, NJ
				{ihnp4|mtuxo|pegasus}!phoenix!brent
				(201) 576-3475

------------------------------

Date: 15 May 85 23:00:31 EDT
From: Charles.Fineman@CMU-CS-SPICE
Subject: Re: Speed of Light
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

Slocum@HI-MULTICS metioned the Asimov books. They are called Understanding
Physics (Bantam?) and I found them very infomative on a wide range of topics
including a chapter devoted to the development of the relatavistic theory.

	~Charlie Fineman
	
	(ARPA: Fineman@cmu-cs-spice)

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!phoenix!brent
From: phoenix!brent (Brent P. Callaghan)
Subject: Re: Gravity slingshots
Date: 14 May 85 13:10:13 GMT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft NJ

Jupiter must be a very attractive gravity well to NASA mission
planners.  I remember a couple of years ago a NASA/ESA combined
mission using two identical spacecraft was planned and 
subsequently canned.

The spacecraft were to investigate to solar magnetosphere from 
above and below the north and south poles of the sun 
( out of the plane of the solar system).

So where did they plan to launch the spacecraft ? ... out to Jupiter !!
Each spacecraft was to get a combined plane change and slingshot
in opposite directions back to Sol.

I hope they made arrangements for mutual overtaking on the
back side of Jupiter. :-)
-- 
				
Made in New Zealand -->		Brent Callaghan
				AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft, NJ
				{ihnp4|mtuxo|pegasus}!phoenix!brent
				(201) 576-3475

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!houxm!hound!pearse
From: hound!pearse (S.PEARSE)
Subject: Re: Gravity slingshots
Date: 14 May 85 14:55:33 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ

I have read a lot of sci-fi books which use the principle of "Gravity
Slingshots". Could someone explain from a net-energy point of view
how this works? I know you don't get something for nothing. When
a satellite approaches Jupiter, it gains energy from the approach,
but as it departs, it loses just as much. Where is the net gain
in velocity=energy? Is it from Jupiter's orbital velocity?

Thanks,
-- 
Steve Pearse
ihnp4!hound!pearse

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!alice!td
From: alice!td (Tom Duff)
Subject: Re: Budget cuts (really asinine political generalizations)
Date: 15 May 85 04:23:23 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

> Path: ..!cbdkc1!tjs ( Tom Stanions @ AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus)
> Military is the only real (consitutional) reason for a
> government.
So you believe that if someone accuses you of raping his daughter
the government shouldn't get involved, since it's not a military matter,
only libel (or rape, were the accusation true).

I think you should carefully consider any unqualified generalizations
that you make, especially in a public forum.  I also think you should
keep your ill-considered militaristic war-monger's opinions in net.politics
and out of nice, clean (albeit sometimes misguided) newsgroups like net.space.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!reed!swift
From: reed!swift (Theodore Swift)
Subject: Re: Truax, Evil Knevil
Date: 15 May 85 08:17:53 GMT
Reply-To: swift@reed.UUCP (ted swift)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon
Summary: Snake not equal to  Grand

>It is also true that he designed the rocket bike the Evil Knevil used in his
>attempt to jump the grand canyon. The attempt failed and Evil parachuted
>into the canyon.

I believe it was the Snake River Canyon in Idaho/Oregon that Knevil
tried to jump.  The Grand Canyon is a messload bigger in all three
dimensions.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!reed!swift
From: reed!swift (Theodore Swift)
Subject: Re: Speed of Light
Date: 15 May 85 08:49:19 GMT
Reply-To: swift@reed.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon

In article <52@uw-june> dtuttle@uw-june (David C. Tuttle) writes:
>So, any ship approaching 1.0c can still be passed by light at 1.0c, thus
>the ship can never bridge that gap and travel at lightspeed...
>
>True physicists are now free to punch holes in this layman's arguments.

Rather than punch holes in it, maybe we can do some tailoring to a suit
with potential, but doesn't quite fit yet.
  The reason anything with mass can't go the speed of light (e.g.,
spaceships) has to do with the not-to-easy-to-grasp idea that as your
velocity approaches v=c, your _relativistic_ mass increases according to
Mmotion=Mrest/sqrt(1-(v*v)/(c*c)).  The mess in the denominator is called
the "gamma function" (dunno why).  If you consider the case where v is
approaching c (from below!! we don't wanna mess with the case v>c,though
one of the seniors did his thesis on just that idea) you should be able
to convince yourself that the sqrt(1-(v*v)/(c*c)) term goes to zero, so
the relativistic mass, Mmotion, goes to infinity.  To get something going
fast (or faster), you need to accelerate it.  You apply a force to the 
mass to accelerate it. (Newton said it best: F=ma).  Now, near c, your
relativistic mass gets to be huge, so the amount of force necessary to
get you going any faster (closer to c) also gets huge.  You just can't 
carry enough fuel to generate "huge enough" forces.
  The gamma function also works on time.  This is the basic idea behind
the "twin paradox" (available in any good intro physics text) where the
twin in a spaceship going at some relativistic speed ages "slower" than
his sibling on the ground (or at rest- he can be suffocating in space for
all we care, as long as his Timex keeps on ticking).  The neet idea
this brings up is that interstellar colonists won't have to go through
*as many* generations before planetfall because, if they get truckin',
they will age "slower" relative to the Infinite Cosmos (sorry, Carl...).
One problem: you gotta slow down, to, unless you just want to leave
E. coli on your target planet.
Enough mister science for now.  I'm going to sleep.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #160
*******************

17-May-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #161    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 161

Today's Topics:
				  SFMSS
			     Nuclear Rockets
		     Re:  reentry of paper airplanes?
	Re: Budget cuts (really asinine political generalizations)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 16 May 85 13:30:39 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: SFMSS
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

The following is a preliminary copy of the letter that has (by now) gone to
the members of the Senate Science, Technology and Space Subcommittee. I have
posted this just so everyone who was kind enough to support us knows exactly
how we are using your names. Again, thank you. I will be sure to let you all
know how effective this effort has been.

===========================================================================
FROM SCIENTISTS FOR A MANNED SPACE STATION
TO SENATE SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY, AND SPACE SUBCOMMITTEE

					MAY 7, 1985


SENATOR
S,T, & SP
US SN
WASH

DEAR SIR:

We are writing to you as scientists who have been working in the field of
science for many years. It is our judgement that NASA's Manned Space Station
will be of great scientific value. We want to indicate our strong support
for this project on its scientific merits.

We urge your support of NASA's request of $230 Million for the space station
in FY 1986. The space station will provide a vital working environment for
the evolution of space science. In recent testimony before the
HUD-Independant Agencies Subcommittee of the Senate Committee on
Appropriations, Dr. Gordon A. Smith, Vice-President of Public Policy for the
American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics stated, "We believe that
every dollar spent now in the conceptual phase [of the space station] has
the potential leverage to reduce costs when it comes to full-scale
development" (May 2, 1985).

The NASA FY 1986 budget request represents a committment to maintainance of
vital research and development programs. The critical research base provided
by NASA would be furthur eroded by any cutbacks in the FY 1986 NASA budget
request.

Therefore, we urge your support of a vigorous space program by voting for
full funding for NASA and for $230 Million for the Space Station.

						Sincerely,

						Signed by:

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 May 85 16:15:46 EDT
From: John H. Heimann <jheimann@BBNCCY.ARPA>
Subject: Nuclear Rockets
To: space@mit-mc.arpa

	Rather than going down to the local library and reading through old 
NASA annual reports, I'm going to cop out and submit this question to the 
net.  

	Back in the 'sixties, there were a number of programs (funded, I think,
by NASA and what was then AEC) to develop nuclear powered space propulsion
schemes.  The ones I recall are project Orion, which involved the detonation of
tiny fission explosives behind a so-called bumper plate which was connected to
the rear of a spacecraft.  The explosion byproducts would impart momentum to the
plate, and thence to the craft.  The other program was intended to develop a
more traditional rocket motor, in which hydrogen gas was heated in a fission
reactor and allowed to expand through a nozzle.  Neither program culminated in
the flight test of an engine, although the hydrogen/reactor rocket was ground
tested (Project Kiwi, as I recall).  In theory at least, a nuclear rocket
should be more efficient than a chemical rocket, since the exhaust gasses can
be made much hotter.  I may be mistaken, but I think the lower molecular weight
of the exhaust gas of a nuclear rocket (atomic H) compared with that of, say, a
hydrocarbon-LOX chemical rocket (H2O and CO2) gives nuclear rockets a further
advantage in thrust.

	My question is, why were these projects cancelled?  I can imagine that
project Orion would violate the Limited Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, which
prohibits atmospheric or outer-space testing of nuclear weapons.  The main
reason I can think of for cancelling the hydrogen/reactor engine is concern
about radioactive exhaust or, if the rocket should crash, radioactive waste.
Neither of these concerns would be legitimate if the engine were used well
outside the earth's atmosphere.  There is of course the problem of getting a
fission reactor safely into orbit.  A few tons of plutionium oxide, molten from
reentry, would not be the nicest thing to have falling into one's backyard. 

							John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 May 85 10:21:27 pdt
From: David Smith <dsmith%hplabs.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To: space%mc@csnet-relay.arpa
Subject: Re:  reentry of paper airplanes?
Source-Info:  From (or Sender) name not authenticated.

Deorbit delta-V is not very great for low earth orbit.  The shuttle
takes off and gets into an orbit that would reenter over the Indian
ocean.  Then it drops its tank and fires the OMS engines to put it into
a stable orbit.  This OMS burn is worth about 300 feet per second,
or 200 mph.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 May 85 18:24:37 pdt
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
To: alice!td@Berkeley
Subject: Re: Budget cuts (really asinine political generalizations)
Cc: space@mit-mc.ARPA

	Keep it clean, folks.  Name-calling on a public bboard  (commie,
fascist, pinko, militaristic war-monger) significantly lowers the
signal-to-noise ration on the arpanet.  If you want to tick somebody off,
please do it privately.

					Thanks.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #161
*******************

18-May-85  0351	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #162    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 162

Today's Topics:
			     Nuclear Rockets
			    Re: Speed Of Light
		     Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
			     Nuclear Rockets
		  Quality of NASA space-to-ground links
		Re: Quality of NASA space-to-ground links
			  Re: Gravity slingshots
		      Re: Speed of Light and beyond
			 Re: Swimming in air, etc
			  Re: swimming in space
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 17 May 1985 12:57:21 EDT
From: METH@USC-ISI.ARPA
Subject: Nuclear Rockets
To:   SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc:   METH@USC-ISI.ARPA

     You hit the reasons right on the nose.  Several space nuclear 
propulsion programs (NERVA,  KIWI,  RBR) were cancelled because of 
the   fear  (political  rather  than  technical,   I  suspect)  of 
transporting large amounts of nuclear material into space.  

     There  is a revitalized interest in space nuclear  power,  if 
not propulsion.   The SP-100 program,  initially funded by  DARPA, 
NASA, and DOE was looking at such concepts (as well as non-nuclear 
ones)  for  100kW(e).   I believe that has transitioned  to  SDIO.  
SDI/SLKT  (Survivability,  Lethality,  and  Key Technologies)  and 
SDI/IST (Innovative Science and Technology) offices are interested 
in  such  power sources.  DOE is sponsoring a New  and  Innovative 
Concepts program (PRDA DE-RA03-85SF15622) which also includes  new 
space  power (including nuclear) concepts.   Many of the new space 
nuclear power concepts could be used for propulsion.

-Sheldon Meth

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!faust!schrei
From: faust!schrei
Subject: Re: Speed Of Light
Date: 14 May 85 15:36:00 GMT



Jeff,
     You ask good questions.  What you are struggling with is the
fundamental observable paradox that led Albert Einstein to the Theory
of Relativity.  The speed of light (or any electromagnetic wave)
*in a vacuum* is never relative.  It is always absolute -- a constant --
and is independent of the motion of the observer.  Now wavelength, i.e.
color in the case of light, is something else.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!bellcore!sabre!zeta!epsilon!gamma!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!eder
From: ssc-vax!eder (Dani Eder)
Subject: Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
Date: 15 May 85 18:10:38 GMT
Organization: Boeing Aerospace Co., Seattle, WA

> >
> >I'm sorry, I should have stated that when someone was on an EVA, take
> >the paper airplane and THROW it toward the ground and against the orbit.
> >Peter Barada
> 	From a practical standpoint, the astronaut would have to have an
> awefully good arm. Depending on the orbit, the paper plane would
> need a velocity of several thousand miles per hour with respect
> to the spacecraft. I can't see the plane being thrown faster than
> 20 or 30 mph. considering that the thrower would be in a space suit.
> Even if you postulate a mechanical throwing device, it would probably
> destroy a paper plane, ( I think certainly, but I won't go overboard).

     Let us assume the Orbiter is at 150 Mautical Miles.  Your astronaut
throws the airplane at 20 mph or 10 meters/second aft.  Aft is defined
as opposite your orbital motion.  The airplane will now have a perigee
of 140 Nautical Miles and an apogee of 150 Nautical Miles.

     A piece of 20-lb bond 8.5x11 inches weighs .01 lb.  When folded
into a paper airplane and flying stably it has a cross section of 0.5
inches square.  This gives it a ballistic coefficient (weight/area) of
3 lbs/ft^2.  It will decay from orbit in about 40 days.

     If the paper airplane has a blunt nose (0.1 foot radius), then
the peak heating on re-entry will be 70 BTU/ft^2/sec (795 kW/m^2).
This means the peak temperature, assuming the paper is black, will
be 1900 Kelvin (2973 F).

Dani Eder / ssc-vax!eder / Boeing Company

------------------------------

Date: 17 May 1985 21:05:31 EDT
From: DOLANTP@USC-ISI.ARPA
Subject: Nuclear Rockets
To:   SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS@MIT-MC.ARPA

The United States began research into using nuclear power for rocket
propulsion back in the late 1950s.  Back then, it seemed that the power
which could be generated using nuclear means was a lot more promising than
chemical rockets.
  Project Orion went through several design stages, one of the more interest-
ing of which called for a 300-foot-tall vehicle with a combustion containment
chamber made of 1/2-inch steel.  This chamber was supposed to be 150 feet
in diameter, and small (0.1 kiloton) nuclear devices would be exploded in
the center of the chamber.  Thrust would be generated via water injection
into the chamber, and subsequent vaporization.
  The Project Kiwi engines reportedly could have powered a vehicle into low
earth orbit, and showed some promise.  However, if you remember the years
(early 1960s) of these experiments, we had a sudden push to get a man on the
Moon in a hurry.  The nuclear rocket research was not progressing fast
enough, so funds were redirected to more conventional means of propulsion.
  Another attempt at nuclear propulsion sources was the Air Force attempt to
make a nuclear airplane.  General Electric actually did make a prototype
reactor which drove two turbine engines, and in the early 1960s USAF
predicted that their first nuclear airplane would fly by 1965.  It didn't.
  Most of the action was generated by a fear that we had to get these devices
flying before the Soviets did.  When it became obvious that neither side was
making progress, the urgency subsided.
  This research could probably make the basis of an interesting book, if any-
one cared to write it.

                         Tom Dolan
                         Naval Postgraduate School
                         Monterey, CA

-------

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!petrus!karn
From: petrus!karn
Subject: Quality of NASA space-to-ground links
Date: 17 May 85 03:54:26 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Inc

This is a question that's bugged me for some time.

Those of us who are space junkies have gotten used to listening to
space-to-ground audio links that are, shall we say, somewhat less than
"telephone quality". While the overall intelligibility has gotten better
over the years, it is still worse than I would expect.

In the case of the space shuttle, which uses digital transmission (delta
mod) for its primary (non-UHF) audio links, I had assumed that the noise you
hear when an astronaut opens his mike must be due to things like ventilating
fans on board (after all, air doesn't move by convection without gravity).

However, when Owen Garriott made his famous DX-pedition, using the same
headset connected to a 2m FM handie-talkie, his audio quality was absolutely
clear -- virtually no transmitted noise or distortion. If I hadn't already
been familiar with his voice from things like interviews and press
conferences, I would have suspected a hoax. So where does all the noise come
from in the NASA chain? Do the orbiter avionics use large amounts of speech
compression or clipping, or what? Should we hams offer to replace all of
their communications gear?

Phil

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!brl-tgr!wmartin
From: wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin )
Subject: Re: Quality of NASA space-to-ground links
Date: 17 May 85 21:28:41 GMT
Reply-To: wmartin@brl-bmd.UUCP
Organization: USAMC ALMSA
Summary: Radio equipment in spacecraft

A good question, and an opening for a topic I had been meaning to post
for some time now, and always forgot to...

What has the radio equipment available to the astronauts been, over the
history of the manned-spaceflight program, and especially now, in the Shuttle?
As a longtime DXer, I have always wondered what it would be like to have
radios in orbit, and be able to tune around and see what I get. Can the
astronauts do this?

I would expect that you'd get some shortwave and medium wave signals --
the portion that punched through the ionosphere and wasn't reflected,
and that part radiated straight up, which doesn't get reflected, as
you pass over those antennae. Higher frequencies would go right through
the ionosphere, of course, but I'd expect to get a mixture of everything
on the hemisphere transmitting on that particular frequency (with the
closer transmitters dominating, so it would constantly change as the
receiver orbits).

So, do the astronauts now have general-coverage receivers that they can
tune, or is all the radio gear fixed-frequency and dedicated to the
mission? What about video reception? Do they have PAL and SECAM and
NTSC equipment to look at TV signals from all over the world as they orbit?
I like to think of getting a mix of every US station on channel 5 at
the same time... surrealistic TV DX!

The latest episode of the PBS "Spaceflight" series mentioned how
deadly bored the Gemini astronauts were during scheduled sleeptimes
(when they weren't sleepy) and during the last part of long-endurance
missions. I DX at times like those -- did they have the chance to?

What about antennae? Spacecraft being metal cans, it probably is 
necessary to get some sort of antennae outside the craft and the
signal fed through. Are there spare or unused antennae that can be
used for recreational radio reception? What about HF -- are there
reeled-out longwire antennae on the Shuttle for HF, or is that
portion of the spectrum ignored? (Could you receive LF or VLF
from orbit, or are those all ground-hugging signals?)

Any NASA types out there who have info on the the radio-related
aspects of the space program, please post info on this! Inquiring
minds want to know!

Regards,
Will Martin

USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin     or   ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Gravity slingshots
Date: 16 May 85 17:00:04 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

> Jupiter must be a very attractive gravity well to NASA mission
> planners.  I remember a couple of years ago a NASA/ESA combined
> mission using two identical spacecraft was planned and 
> subsequently canned.

No, only NASA's half of it was canned, unilaterally and to the great
displeasure of the Europeans, who had thought that a US promise meant
something.  The European probe, now named Ulysses (used to be International
Solar Polar Mission) is going ahead.  The US is supplying the launch
free as a consolation prize.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Speed of Light and beyond
Date: 16 May 85 17:05:01 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

> I know this is impossible, but what would happen if...
> 
> A ship could exceed the speed of light?  When the space shuttle crosses the
> sound barrier, there is a sonic boom.  If it were possible to cross the
> "light barrier", what phenomenon would result?

A lot of heart attacks in the physics community, for one. :-)

More seriously, as I recall it, the basic answer to this from relativity
(if we ignore tachyons, which are a messy case) is "does not compute".
Faster-than-light speeds involve logical contradictions (notably, loss of
the normal cause-and-effect relationship) according to special relativity.
This being the case, the theory basically cannot give coherent predictions
about such a situation.

I'd be very interested to hear this contradicted by somebody who knows
more about the subject...
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!watmath!watnot!watdcsu!herbie
From: watdcsu!herbie (Herb Chong [DCS])
Subject: Re: Swimming in air, etc
Date: 16 May 85 14:42:51 GMT
Reply-To: herbie@watdcsu.UUCP (Herb Chong [DCS])
Organization: U of Waterloo

In article <1783@mordor.UUCP> JOSH@RUTGERS.ARPA writes:
>Thus I would expect that a unit with fold-up prop, rare-earth motor,
>and nicads could be built to last a normal day's use without recharging
>and be a conveniently clip-on-belt sized item.

wouldn't it be easier for all concerned if they had a small air compressor
aboard to refill small compressed air cans which are then kept on
a handy belt or in a pocket?

Herb Chong...

I'm user-friendly -- I don't byte, I nybble....

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!reed!swift
From: reed!swift (Theodore Swift)
Subject: Re: swimming in space
Date: 17 May 85 02:07:04 GMT
Reply-To: swift@reed.UUCP (ted swift)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon
Keywords: butterflies...
Summary: there are bulk/surface area problems

>   I belive that the rocket-propulsion schemes (throwing a ball,
>blowing a balloon) are all much much less efficient than something
>that involves taking advantage of pushing off of the air itself.
>(i.e., heavier than air flight with wings and propellors can be done
>with a lot less power than a plain reaction rocket-engine)
> The suggestion of swim fins seems like about the best idea. 

In considering "efficiency" you might consider that swim fins push
against water, and your proposed "air fins" work against air (at a 
reduced pressure of something like 10 psi to boot, if what I've heard
is correct).  I believe air is something like 1/20 as dense as air (at
14.7psi), so to get the "same effect" you'd need fins 20 times bigger,
i.e., big mongo butterfly wings!  This might be OK in Heinlein's big
flying chamber on the moon (see, I believe, _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_)
but it's downright lethal in a space station.  If you brush the wrong
switch with your multicolored wings (made by Hobie, no doubt :-)) you're
liable to do something irreversibly bad. (see Niven's stories about 
Belters- people who live in small ships in the Asteroid belt.)
   The idea of a balloon is good, as long as you take care where and how
you inhale.  I'd suggest inhaling through both sides of your mouth, then
exhaling into the balloon.  Better yet, don't get into the situation of
being stuck out there in the first place.  It would be hard to do, anyway
since you'd have to leave your last wall with SOME velocity.
  If the ship fired it's rockets while one was floating in "midair", of
course the ship would accelerate "at you" at whatever rate the engines were
giving it.  This could hurt.  A lot.
  Most of these questions can be answered by taking a good squint at
Sir Isaac's three laws.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #162
*******************

19-May-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #163    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 163

Today's Topics:
			Cancelled nuclear rockets
				  NERVA
				more NERVA
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: crash!david@SDCSVAX.ARPA
Date: Sat, 18 May 85 12:19:53 PDT
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Subject: Cancelled nuclear rockets


	I believe the project you are referring to is project NERVA (Nuclear
Engine for Rocket Vehicle Application).  It was going to be the rocket en-
gine that would take us to Mars.
	There were many reasons why it was dropped.  First and foremost was
cost.  Hundreds of millions had been spent on research of the project
(funded by NASA and AEC) and they hadn't even begun development.  Vietnam
helped to drop the program.
	Secondly, it wasn't really necessary to send men to Mars, and that
was essentially what the program was about.  The Mariner and Viking
probes were advanced enough to give almost any data needed.  And besides, it
didn't look like the Russians were going to send people to Mars, so there
was no rush...
	Another reason was the difficulty of getting such a massive rocket out
of the atmosphere (the craft was to hold six people, and the trip would
take two years, so supplies would be numerous...). The researchers decided it'd
be better to wait until we got a space station up where the rocket could be
assembled and launched.  The project was also to depend on the use of the
shuttle to transport supplies, people, etc.  We know what happened to the
shuttle...
	And lastly, an even better engine had been envisioned.  A nuclear-elec-
tric drive engine could be much smaller: it wouldn't require as much propellant
as the nuclear engine running off liquid hydrogen.
	Yes, there were tests of nuclear-related engines or reactors (15,
to be exact).  One of them (the NRX-A6) ran an hour at 1100MW (which was full
power).
	Just a little bit of trivia - if the project hadn't been cancelled,
we'd have reached Mars in 1982.  Tough luck, huh?

	-David Thacher
	{ihnp4, cbosgd, sdcsvax, noscvax}!crash!david
	crash!david@ucsd.arpa

------------------------------

Date: 18 May 85 16:53:59 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: NERVA
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

The NERVA rocket engine project was halted within ~$1B of man rating. The
reason for the halt in funding was quite simple. NASA wanted to go for a
manned mission to Mars, and NERVA was the engine to do it with. Proxmire and
Mondale realized that an engine of this caliber would eventually lead to a
reemergence of the Mars program, since the existance of a capability almost
demands that it be used. So they made DAMN sure NERVA was killed. It probably
didn't help that Spiro Agnew was strongly supporting a Mars mission.

As to resurrecting the project, it would probably have to be done pretty
much from scratch. Dreamers among us imagine the documents on things like
this neatly stored in some archive, ready for disenterment. T'aint so. The
info at Jackass Flats was destroyed (dumped from drawers and burned
according to a friend of mine) by the last crew out when the contract was
cancelled. I suspect most of the rest has been cleaned out of the archives
of the contractors years ago. Most companies just don't store records for 15
years on dead projects. They also don't store them on products because of a
court ruling that can hold them liable for products if they still have the
information on them. Since they are only required to keep the info for about
5 (?) years, design info tends to vanish if it is beyond that age, except
where there are special laws applicable.

I'll bet that all of the NERVA contract and test documents still exist
though. Who needs @i(blueprints) if you have CYA documents? Says something
about our system of values, doesn't it?

(PS: When I was a teen my sister's husband was working on NERVA out at the
     Flats. He was with Westinghouse Astronuclear out of Large, PA)

------------------------------

Date: 18 May 85 16:59:39 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: more NERVA
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

I forgot to mention. NERVA, as ground tested, had around 800 sec specific
impulse.  The SSME only have 450 sec. And this was not a LOW thrust engine
like a SEPS. This was a real kick-in-the-buns interplanetary rocket engine.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #163
*******************

20-May-85  0350	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #164    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 164

Today's Topics:
			    The Sky is Falling
		Re: Getting UNSTUCK in the middle of space
		      Re: Speed of Light and beyond
		      Re: Speed of Light and beyond
			Re: Re: Swimming in space
		      Re: Speed of Light and beyond
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #158
		     Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
		      Re: Speed of Light and beyond
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!mhuxt!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: The Sky is Falling
Date: 17 May 85 17:21:07 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

Discovery was struck again, yesterday, by falling debris, but
no damage occurred and no one was hurt.  A 200 pound metal beam
was jarred loose by a crane and fell into the cargo bay.  NASA
says that it will no affect the planned 14 June launch.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!qantel!vlsvax1!zehntel!tektronix!reed!swift
From: reed!swift (Theodore Swift)
Subject: Re: Getting UNSTUCK in the middle of space
Date: 17 May 85 02:33:05 GMT
Reply-To: swift@reed.UUCP (ted swift)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon
Summary: buoyancy in air for a human?

Keywords:buoyancy, flatulance 

>	I can't understand why swimming motions wouldn't work (and didn't,
>according to recent postings). After all, motion in a fluid (air) should be
>much the same as motion in another fluid (water), and I assure you that it's
>possible for buoyant force to just match the gravitational force on a scuba
>diver.  Comments from anyone?
>
>					Rick.


Yeah, but I believe humans have a density close to that of water, not
air (unless you consider the bean-fed solutions posted :-) ).  I suppose
you could have people strapped to big dirigibles, but, again, you have
space problems (no pun intended...).  Buoyant forces are at least 
partially dependant on the local force of gravity, so to get much
buoyancy out of things, you'd need both a big dirigible and a reasonable
gravitational field, as well as some atmosphere.
  Another problem someone else in the Terminal Ward here pointed out is
though both air and water are fluids, air is easily compressible, so you
will not be able to just "scale up" the effects of water motions to air.
The best idea I've seen so far is forcibly throwing some mass away, like
a shoe, thrown underhand, probably.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!larryk
From: tektronix!larryk (Larry Kohn)
Subject: Re: Speed of Light and beyond
Date: 17 May 85 21:13:58 GMT
Reply-To: larryk@tektronix.UUCP (Larry Kohn)
Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR

In article <1776@mordor.UUCP> @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC:TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA writes:
>
>                                       If it were possible to cross the
>"light barrier", what phenomenon would result?

	An image, resembling a subliminal flash, produced when an improbability
wave formed by a spacecraft travelling at superlight speed traverses another
dimension.  Call it an Optic Flooey.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!hou2e!gv
From: hou2e!gv (A.VANNUCCI)
Subject: Re: Speed of Light and beyond
Date: 17 May 85 17:33:26 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ

> I know this is impossible, but what would happen if...
> 
> A ship could exceed the speed of light?  When the space shuttle crosses the
> sound barrier, there is a sonic boom.  If it were possible to cross the
> "light barrier", what phenomenon would result?
> 
> Ron Tencati
> JPL-VLSI

  It *is* possible. A particle can move through a medium faster than
the speed of light in that medium. It emits Cherenkov radiation, which
is the electromagnetic wave analog of a sonic boom.

  This phenomenon is commonly used by particle physicist to detect the
presence of particles.

		Giovanni Vannucci
		AT&T Bell Laboratories      HOH R-207
		Holmdel, NJ 07733
		hou2e!gv

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!aicchi!dbb
From: aicchi!dbb (Burch)
Subject: Re: Re: Swimming in space
Date: 17 May 85 01:04:29 GMT
Organization: Analysts International Corp; Chicago Branch

> >     Yes, it would. It has been noticed that objects that are floating in
> > mid air will start to drift, or change directions when the control rockets
> > fire to keep the shuttle pointed the right way, or just change directions.
> > If it does happen to an object, it should be the same for an astronaut.
> 
> Of course, what's REALLY happening is that the objects remain stationary
> in their inertial reference frame, while the ship accelerates "around" them.
> 
> I recall seeing a brief but amusing clip from one of the shuttle missions.
> Whenever one of the astronauts would release a roll of duct tape, it would
> slowly accelerate towards the right and bounce off the wall. If the astronaut
> let go of the handle he was holding, he'd also drift to the right and
> hit the wall. Obviously, an orbit maneuver was going on, but the orbiter
> is so massive that the acceleration given by the OMS is pretty small
> (1/2 m/sec/sec, depending on fuel and cargo load, seems about right from
> memory).
> 
> Phil

Well... What really would happen (assuming no orbital maneuver and the
air blowers are all off) is that the astronaut will reach a wall! This
is because of the fact that the astronaut and the spacecraft are
unlikely to share a centre of gravity, and therefore are in different
orbits around the earth. Quite likely there are tidal and other effects
which would cause the standed fellow to reach a wall eventually...

-Ben Burch, AIC

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ho95b!ran
From: ho95b!ran (RANeinast)
Subject: Re: Speed of Light and beyond
Date: 17 May 85 19:18:51 GMT
Organization: AT&T-Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ

>> I know this is impossible, but what would happen if...
>> 
>> A ship could exceed the speed of light?  When the space shuttle crosses the
>> sound barrier, there is a sonic boom.  If it were possible to cross the
>> "light barrier", what phenomenon would result?
>
>A lot of heart attacks in the physics community, for one. :-)

>More seriously, as I recall it, the basic answer to this from relativity
>(if we ignore tachyons, which are a messy case) is "does not compute".
>Faster-than-light speeds involve logical contradictions (notably, loss of
>the normal cause-and-effect relationship) according to special relativity.
>This being the case, the theory basically cannot give coherent predictions
>about such a situation.
>
>I'd be very interested to hear this contradicted by somebody who knows
>more about the subject...

It's known as Cerenkov radiation.  It turns out that the speed of light
depends upon the medium through which it travels (the speed in vacuo
is the ultimate limit), so you can have particles going very near the speed
of light in a vacuum enter water (where the speed of light is much slower)
and create a "sonic boom", except, of course, it is light that is emitted.
This slows the particle rather quickly.

Regarding tachyons, the idea first came up about 15 years ago when it
was noticed that the relativity equations had no problems with faster-
than-light if an object ALWAYS went faster then light, so tachyons
were proposed.  Despite possible mechanisms for how a tachyon might
be observed, there is at present NO experimental evidence for their
existence.  Quantum field theory also has a few problems if tachyons
exist, since the mass (imaginary for tachyons) of the particle
defines an integration path in complex space for the calculation
of certain measureable quantities.  I realize the last sentence is
not real clear, but I'm afraid I can't explain it much better.



-- 

". . . and shun the frumious Bandersnatch."
Robert Neinast (ihnp4!ho95b!ran)
AT&T-Bell Labs

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!decvax!bellcore!sabre!zeta!epsilon!gamma!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!ihnp4!cbosgd!clyde!watmath!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #158
Date: 17 May 85 17:23:32 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

> The fact that they were able to survive this disaster is a tribute to
> the design philosophy of the Block II Apollo system which (unlike the
> earlier Block I design of ill-fated fire on the pad fame) allowed for
> virtual real-time system reconfiguration to meet certain contingencies.

It's also a tribute to the paranoia of some of the early planners, who
put their feet down hard and *insisted* that the LM and CM had to use
identical computers.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!prls!amdimage!amdcad!amd!pesnta!pertec!scgvaxd!trwrb!sdcrdcf!lwall
From: sdcrdcf!lwall (Larry Wall)
Subject: Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
Date: 15 May 85 16:15:58 GMT
Reply-To: lwall@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Larry Wall)
Organization: System Development Corp. R+D, Santa Monica

In article <581@mnetor.UUCP> fred@mnetor.UUCP (Fred Williams) writes:
>	So what would have to be done is go into re-entry orbit and eject
>the paper plane by some means.
>	NOW! *Just how do you intend to observe what happens?*

Write your address on it, and attach a postage stamp.  And hope it doesn't
land in someone's swimming pool.

Larry Wall
{allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!lwall

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!prls!amdimage!amdcad!amd!pesnta!pertec!scgvaxd!trwrb!sdcrdcf!darrelj
From: sdcrdcf!darrelj (Darrel VanBuer)
Subject: Re: Speed of Light and beyond
Date: 15 May 85 21:55:31 GMT
Reply-To: darrelj@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Darrel VanBuer)
Organization: System Development Corp. R+D, Santa Monica


Cherenkov radiation results (i.e. light) when anything goes faster than the
speed of light in a medium.  Of course this only happens when the medium is
"slower" than a vacuum (e.g. water at 75% of c) since the particle still
limited by c.
Darrel J. Van Buer, PhD
System Development Corp.
2500 Colorado Ave
Santa Monica, CA 90406
(213)820-4111 x5449
...{allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,orstcs,sdcsvax,ucla-cs,akgua}
                                                            !sdcrdcf!darrelj
VANBUER@USC-ECL.ARPA
-- 
Darrel J. Van Buer, PhD
System Development Corp.
2500 Colorado Ave
Santa Monica, CA 90406
(213)820-4111 x5449
...{allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,orstcs,sdcsvax,ucla-cs,akgua}
                                                            !sdcrdcf!darrelj
VANBUER@USC-ECL.ARPA

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #164
*******************

21-May-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #165    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 165

Today's Topics:
		     Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
		      Re: Speed of Light and beyond
			   Re: Nuclear Rockets
		     Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
				Time warp
				Apollo 13
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!pbear!peterb
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
Date: 19 May 85 21:37:00 GMT



Dani,

Do you have pointers to the equations for orbit decay, and heat-reentry?

I can beleive the 40 day orbit decay, but 1500 deg F reentry heat???
I can beleive it for the shuttle, it has so much FRIGGIN mass. But as
you stated, a paper airplane weighs  ~ .01 pound. So I think its
deacceleration would be quite high, so I just can't see it streaking
throught the atmosphere at speeds fast enought to make that much heat.

(If it did, it wouldn't even burn up, it would blow up as the paper
disintegrated into itty bitty bits.)

Peter Barada
{ihnp4!inmet|{harvard|cca}!ima}!pbear!peterb

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Speed of Light and beyond
Date: 18 May 85 23:33:43 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

> >I'd be very interested to hear this contradicted by somebody who knows
> >more about the subject...
> 
> It's known as Cerenkov radiation.  It turns out that the speed of light
> depends upon the medium through which it travels (the speed in vacuo
> is the ultimate limit), so you can have particles going very near the speed
> of light in a vacuum enter water (where the speed of light is much slower)
> and create a "sonic boom", except, of course, it is light that is emitted.
> This slows the particle rather quickly.

Sigh, I knew about Cerenkov radiation, and if I thought people would be
this picky [I know, I know, I've done it myself sometimes...] I would
have qualified all references to "speed of light" with "in a vacuum".
I thought it was reasonably clear from the original posting that the
question referred to spaceships, i.e. operations in a vacuum.  Now, if
somebody can tell me whether an FTL starship would emit Cerenkov radiation
in a vacuum, *that* would be interesting.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Nuclear Rockets
Date: 19 May 85 05:30:02 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

>	My question is, why were these projects cancelled?

Project Orion was ultimately killed by the Limited Nuclear Test Ban Treaty,
as you speculated, but it was already languishing for lack of support.  The
more conventional nuclear-rocket program was killed, just as it was getting
real results, simply because it was expensive and there was no mission in
sight (i.e. realistically planned, as opposed to passionately desired) that
would require a nuclear rocket.

Nuclear rockets basically died because NASA decided to use chemical rockets
to get to the moon, and all the ambitious followon projects that might have
provided later requirements for nuclear rockets got killed by budgets.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!utcs!mnetor!fred
From: mnetor!fred (Fred Williams)
Subject: Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
Date: 17 May 85 19:26:03 GMT
Reply-To: fred@mnetor.UUCP (Fred Williams)
Organization: Computer X (CANADA) Ltd., Toronto, Ontario, Canada

In article <3000006@pbear.UUCP> peterb@pbear.UUCP writes:
>If you want to observe it, make it out of steel and use ground radar.
>

	Well I did think we were talking about a "paper airplane". If you
want to make one out of steel, why not put tiles on it too and call
	I had understood that the question was: "Would the paper burn
before the aerodynamic pressures slowed the plane sufficiently to
allow a non-desrtructive re-entry?"  If we use steel, what would be
the point?  I would only be interested in finding out whether or not
the low cross-sectional density of a paper plane would allow it to
be slowed up sufficiently before heating.  A steel plane would surely
burn unless protected in some way, or unless possibly it were decelerated
to zero velocity with respect to the ground and dropped straight down
only under its own weight.  Then I imagine it would depend on the
initial height.
it a "space shuttle" or something like that.

>As for needing thousands of MPH difference to inject it into reentry,
>look at skylab. It came down on drag alone. I am not implying a shuttle
>rentry orbit, just a reentry. A meter per second against the orbit would
>cause the airplane to drop into a lower orbit. If you applied about 10G
>using a slingshot, I think you could easily acheive reentry insertion,
>but the reentry would take quite a number of orbits  until drag from the
>atmosphere would pull it in for good.
>
	Please understand, I don't dispute that an object in orbit would
eventually fall to earth.  But from a practical standpoint I would
hate to have to wait around for a relatively stable orbit to decay.
	Also, I would not recommend a shuttle "eva" activity in an
orbit that was so close to a re-entry that an astronaut could throw
an object into re-entry.  No, the fact that the reactionary force
would "throw" the astronaut into a higher orbit does not alter my
opinion!

>Anybody out there have the equations handy (I don't have my physics book
>at work) I would like to run up a simulation of this. Mail it and comments
>to me
>
>Peter Barada
>{ihnp4!inmet | harvard!ima}!pbear!peterb

	Now, this idea of simulation seems to have merit!  I was about
to suggest that a computer simulation could give you all the answers
and allow you to vary the conditions and run repeated cases to your
heart's content at a very small fraction of the cost.
	Sorry, I used to work on aero-dynamic simulations of 
artillery shells, but that was years ago, and I don't have any
materials from that job.  It is quite a complicated procedure.

	To people in general;
			I promise to *try* not to post anything further on
this topic.  I know some of you must be getting tired of it by
now.  Thanks for your patience and the absence of flames!

Cheers,		Fred Williams

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-pen!kallis
From: kallis@pen.DEC
Subject: Time warp
Date: 18 May 85 22:21:04 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network

Steve Pearse just asked about "gravity slingshots."  I was under the
impression we'd been doing this for more than a week.  However:

	The idea of a gravitational "slingshot" is actually a net
transfer of energy from a massive primary (Jupiter, Tellus, Saturn)
to a much smaller body in a [Solar, in this case] passing orbit so
that the orbit is altered.  This happens naturally with comets and
asteroids (such as Jupiter's "family" of comets).
	In space sciences, the idea is to set up a condition to exploit
this effect -- in this case by sending a probe so that the net effect
of the *moving* planet will cause a velocity change that brings about
the desired result (e.g., acceleration to outer-Solar-System orbits).
	Why Jupiter?  Why not?  It has the biggest moving gravity well
available.
	To answer Steve Pearse's precise question, the probe speeds up
(gains energy) and the planet slows down.  However, since no energy
is created or destroyed in the process, the amount the probe speeds
up and the planet slows down is proportional to their masses.  And
since the probe's mass is nearly infinitesimal in comparison to
the planet, the amount the planet slows down is nearly infinitesimal
to the amount the probe speeds up.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-dvinci!fisher
From: fisher@dvinci.DEC
Subject: Apollo 13
Date: 18 May 85 22:26:39 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network


A bit more about the problem (this is from a NASA book called something like
"The Apollo Missions to the Moon".

It seems that the heater's acceptable current rating had been upped, but
this information had not been circulated to everyone concerned, specifically
the folks concerned with the cutoff thermostat in series with the heater.
It also seems that at one point, the tank was dropped, fixed back up, and
then reinstalled.  During a ground test, the tank was filled, and then they
tried to empty it.  It seemed to take to long (did the drop cause this?),
so they cranked up the current in the heater to the (new) max to boil off the
oxygen..  Unfortunately, the thermostat had not been upgraded to the new
current rating, and when it opened, it arced and welded.  None of this was
noticed. 

During the flight, the heater was merrily doing its thing, and when the
thermostat was supposed to open and cut it off, it could not.  Thus overheating
and explosion as mentioned in another posting.

Burns

	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #165
*******************

22-May-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #166    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 166

Today's Topics:
		       "MILITARY SPACE" newsletter
		      Re: Speed of Light and beyond
			  Halley Locator Program
			 Re: Swimming in air, etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!brl-tgr!wmartin
From: wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin )
Subject: "MILITARY SPACE" newsletter
Date: 21 May 85 18:05:45 GMT
Organization: USAMC ALMSA

Just got a sample copy of this newsletter and thought some of you might 
be interested -- this is one of those outrageously-priced special-interest
newsletters or bulletins. This one is devoted to info about military space
programs, policy, and technology. Biweekly, 8 pages: $348 per year (25 issues),
including a "free" "$97-value" report -- "Guide to military space
programs". Six-month trial sub = $188 for 13 issues.

This sample issue is dated May 13 but has no Volume or Issue number, so
I can't tell if this is the initial issue or if they have published for a 
while. It seems to be a jumble of acronyms, with articles on the SDI
sub-programs and research areas, contract awards, info on the failed Navy
satellite launch from the Shuttle, what seems to be extracts from various
DoD press releases about the Space Command and suchlike, etc.

It might be interesting to look at, though whether it is worth the high 
price depends on how vital such info is to you (and if you can shuffle
off the cost onto somebody else :-). They'll probably send a free sample
to any business address --

Pasha Publications, Inc. (*)
Military Space
1401 Wilson Blvd., Suite 910
Arlington, VA  22209
800-424-2908 or (703)528-1244

* They also publish "Military Electronics" and "Space Business News".

Regards,
Will Martin

USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin     or   ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!randvax!jim
From: randvax!jim (Jim Gillogly)
Subject: Re: Speed of Light and beyond
Date: 15 May 85 18:08:43 GMT
Organization: Banzai Institute

In article <1776@mordor.UUCP> @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC:TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA writes:
>
>I know this is impossible, but what would happen if...
>A ship could exceed the speed of light?  When the space shuttle crosses the
>sound barrier, there is a sonic boom.  If it were possible to cross the
>"light barrier", what phenomenon would result?

As the ship approaches the speed of light its mass approaches infinity.
So as it crosses the speed of light I would expect an infinitely strong
(if momentary) gravity wave across all of space ... and don't expect it
to attenuate by the time it gets here, since the cube root of infinity is
going to be pretty big :-) .  Perhaps the Tralfamadorians in _Slaughterhouse
Five_ did exactly this when they ended the universe -- I seem to remember
that it was caused by experiments with a new rocket propulsion system.

I'd recommend that you find a way to skip directly from our tardyon universe
into the tachyon universe without going across the speed of light.
-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	{decvax, vortex}!randvax!jim
	jim@rand-unix.arpa

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!zehntel!jackh
From: zehntel!jackh (jack hagerty)
Subject: Halley Locator Program
Date: 20 May 85 21:19:59 GMT
Organization: Zehntel Automation Systems Inc, Walnut Creek CA


The May issue of the National Space Institute's mothly publication
"Space World" has a nice general interest article on the comet by
former NSI director Dr. Mark Chartrand.  I won't repeat the body of 
it here since there's nothing in it that hasn't already been posted
in this newsgroup.

However, at the end of the article is the following announcement:

"For those of you with personal computers, NASA has published a
computer program written in BASIC that predicts the position of 
the comet for any location and date you put in. It was written by 
Dr. Robert Chapman at the Goddard Space Flight Center on an Apple IIe,
but should be useful on any microcomputer with minor modifications.
It was published in NASA's Educational Publication #197, but that may
not be easy for you to find. To get a copy of the 200 line program
listing, send a #10 (business-size) self addressed envelope with a
22 cent stamp on it to: Halley's Comet Program, National Space Institute,
Suite 203W, 600 Maryland Ave., SW, Washington, DC   20024."

Not that I'm just trying to save 44 cents, but do any of you NASA types
out there know how I might get Ed Pub #197 directly?  I'm within easy
driving distance of Ames if the PR department there has any.  Better yet,
does anyone out there have this program on line?

One final note. The illustration that accompanies the article shows the
comet's track through the evening and morning skys next spring along
with the apparent visual magnitude. The brightest that this chart shows
the comet getting is magnitude 4.0 on April 5th. This is dissapointing.
according to articles I've read here and elsewhere is should get up to
magnitude 2.0, about the same as Polaris.  Can anyone shed light on this?

-- 
                    Jack Hagerty, Zehntel Automation Systems
                          ...!ihnp4!zehntel!jackh

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!orca!warner
From: orca!warner (Ken Warner)
Subject: Re: Swimming in air, etc
Date: 21 May 85 01:14:32 GMT
Reply-To: warner@orca.UUCP (Ken Warner)
Organization: Tektronix, Wilsonville OR

[       ]
Still no nibbles on the $1.99 dart gun eh? Oh well ...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 May 85 23:28:08 est
From: Tony Guzzi <tonyg%uconn.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA

Ted,

  I just returned from a week vacation and found a lot of SPACE mail waiting
for me but I seem to be missing issue #157.  Would you please send me a copy.
Thanks.

Tony Guzzi
tonyg%uconn.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #166
*******************

23-May-85  0350	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #167    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 167

Today's Topics:
		       "MILITARY SPACE" newsletter
			  Re: swimming in space
			      Money to burn
			    reporters in space
----------------------------------------------------------------------

To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 166

Today's Topics:
		       "MILITARY SPACE" newsletter
		      Re: Speed of Light and beyond
			  Halley Locator Program
			 Re: Swimming in air, etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!brl-tgr!wmartin
From: wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin )
Subject: "MILITARY SPACE" newsletter
Date: 21 May 85 18:05:45 GMT
Organization: USAMC ALMSA

Just got a sample copy of this newsletter and thought some of you might 
be interested -- this is one of those outrageously-priced special-interest
newsletters or bulletins. This one is devoted to info about military space
programs, policy, and technology. Biweekly, 8 pages: $348 per year (25 issues),
including a "free" "$97-value" report -- "Guide to military space
programs". Six-month trial sub = $188 for 13 issues.

This sample issue is dated May 13 but has no Volume or Issue number, so
I can't tell if this is the initial issue or if they have published for a 
while. It seems to be a jumble of acronyms, with articles on the SDI
sub-programs and research areas, contract awards, info on the failed Navy
satellite launch from the Shuttle, what seems to be extracts from various
DoD press releases about the Space Command and suchlike, etc.

It might be interesting to look at, though whether it is worth the high 
price depends on how vital such info is to you (and if you can shuffle
off the cost onto somebody else :-). They'll probably send a free sample
to any business address --

Pasha Publications, Inc. (*)
Military Space
1401 Wilson Blvd., Suite 910
Arlington, VA  22209
800-424-2908 or (703)528-1244

* They also publish "Military Electronics" and "Space Business News".

Regards,
Will Martin

USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin     or   ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!randvax!jim
From: randvax!jim (Jim Gillogly)
Subject: Re: Speed of Light and beyond
Date: 15 May 85 18:08:43 GMT
Organization: Banzai Institute

In article <1776@mordor.UUCP> @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC:TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA writes:
>
>I know this is impossible, but what would happen if...
>A ship could exceed the speed of light?  When the space shuttle crosses the
>sound barrier, there is a sonic boom.  If it were possible to cross the
>"light barrier", what phenomenon would result?

As the ship approaches the speed of light its mass approaches infinity.
So as it crosses the speed of light I would expect an infinitely strong
(if momentary) gravity wave across all of space ... and don't expect it
to attenuate by the time it gets here, since the cube root of infinity is
going to be pretty big :-) .  Perhaps the Tralfamadorians in _Slaughterhouse
Five_ did exactly this when they ended the universe -- I seem to remember
that it was caused by experiments with a new rocket propulsion system.

I'd recommend that you find a way to skip directly from our tardyon universe
into the tachyon universe without going across the speed of light.
-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	{decvax, vortex}!randvax!jim
	jim@rand-unix.arpa

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!zehntel!jackh
From: zehntel!jackh (jack hagerty)
Subject: Halley Locator Program
Date: 20 May 85 21:19:59 GMT
Organization: Zehntel Automation Systems Inc, Walnut Creek CA


The May issue of the National Space Institute's mothly publication
"Space World" has a nice general interest article on the comet by
former NSI director Dr. Mark Chartrand.  I won't repeat the body of 
it here since there's nothing in it that hasn't already been posted
in this newsgroup.

However, at the end of the article is the following announcement:

"For those of you with personal computers, NASA has published a
computer program written in BASIC that predicts the position of 
the comet for any location and date you put in. It was written by 
Dr. Robert Chapman at the Goddard Space Flight Center on an Apple IIe,
but should be useful on any microcomputer with minor modifications.
It was published in NASA's Educational Publication #197, but that may
not be easy for you to find. To get a copy of the 200 line program
listing, send a #10 (business-size) self addressed envelope with a
22 cent stamp on it to: Halley's Comet Program, National Space Institute,
Suite 203W, 600 Maryland Ave., SW, Washington, DC   20024."

Not that I'm just trying to save 44 cents, but do any of you NASA types
out there know how I might get Ed Pub #197 directly?  I'm within easy
driving distance of Ames if the PR department there has any.  Better yet,
does anyone out there have this program on line?

One final note. The illustration that accompanies the article shows the
comet's track through the evening and morning skys next spring along
with the apparent visual magnitude. The brightest that this chart shows
the comet getting is magnitude 4.0 on April 5th. This is dissapointing.
according to articles I've read here and elsewhere is should get up to
magnitude 2.0, about the same as Polaris.  Can anyone shed light on this?

-- 
                    Jack Hagerty, Zehntel Automation Systems
                          ...!ihnp4!zehntel!jackh

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!orca!warner
From: orca!warner (Ken Warner)
Subject: Re: Swimming in air, etc
Date: 21 May 85 01:14:32 GMT
Reply-To: warner@orca.UUCP (Ken Warner)
Organization: Tektronix, Wilsonville OR

[       ]
Still no nibbles on the $1.99 dart gun eh? Oh well ...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 May 85 23:28:08 est
From: Tony Guzzi <tonyg%uconn.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA

Ted,

  I just returned from a week vacation and found a lot of SPACE mail waiting
for me but I seem to be missing issue #157.  Would you please send me a copy.
Thanks.

Tony Guzzi
tonyg%uconn.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #166
*******************

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!nsc!nessus
From: nsc!nessus (Kchula-Rrit)
Subject: Re: swimming in space
Date: 21 May 85 19:58:42 GMT
Organization: The Patriarchy of Kzin, Kzin

> In considering "efficiency" you might consider that swim fins push
> against water, and your proposed "air fins" work against air (at a 
> reduced pressure of something like 10 psi to boot, if what I've heard
> is correct).  I believe air is something like 1/20 as dense as air (at
> 14.7psi), so to get the "same effect" you'd need fins 20 times bigger,
> i.e., big mongo butterfly wings!  This might be OK in Heinlein's big
> flying chamber on the moon (see, I believe, _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_)
> but it's downright lethal in a space station. ...

*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***

     Wasn't the story by Heinlein called "The Menace From Earth"?  Then again,
maybe my memory is saturated from read science-fiction since age 12.  I agree
with the rest of the article.

		    From the alter ego of--

		    Kchula-Rrit

------------------------------

Date: 22 May 1985 at 1715-EDT
Subject: Money to burn
From: jim at TYCHO.ARPA  (James B. Houser)
To: space at mit-mc
cc: jim



Assume for a moment that we were not in bugetary hard times and could
afford an attack of conspicuous consumption. Could a reasonable interstellar
one-way unmanned probe mission be designed which would give some legitimate
science data in addition to the usual ego stuff. Because of the constraints
it will be important keep things simple. The parameters?

	1. Assume only near term technology and assets. For example, no
space station. You are allowed two shuttle payloads if necessary - doing
it in one gets bonus points.

	2. Must be ready to launch within 5 years.

	3. Assume a target star 20 light years away.

	4. Intial data must be received from target star system within 100
years. An interesting question is what collection strategy to use. You could
adopt a cometary orbit or try to look for planetary body etc. Minimum
requirement is a fly-through at less then .05C mean. Remember that your
communications lines have a 40 year turnaround. May be allowed a 10%
extension on time limit given a high grade justification.

	5. Maximum cost will be 1 billion in current dollars. It may be
competing in Congress with a submarine base in Arizona so the cheaper
the better.

	6. Worship the KISS principle. This thing has to go a long way on
it own.

	Occurred that this would be an interesting thought experiment.
You can assume the target is in whatever direction you like if it will help.
Prime issue may be the choice of propulsion scheme. Another question is
what instruments to carry, preferably few and simple. Any thoughts????

PS "It can't be done" is not an acceptable answer!!!

-------

------------------------------

Date: Wed 22 May 85 09:06:59-EDT
From: "Art Evans" <Evans@TL-20B.ARPA>
Subject: reporters in space
To: Space@MIT-MC.ARPA

Senator Jake Garn chatted with the press after his trip on the shuttle
in mission 51-D.

    As for reporters in space, Garn said: "I am very anxious for a press
    person, with great skill as a communicator, to go into space -- and
    on a round trip, too."

Quoted in Aviation Week, May 20, 1985, page 17.
-------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #167
*******************

24-May-85  0354	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #168    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 168

Today's Topics:
		 moving through time/moving through space
		 Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
			      halley program
		      RE: Speed of Light and beyond
		      Re: Speed of Light and beyond
			   Re: Halley magnitude
		 Re: Getting UNSTUCK in the middle of spa
		      Re: Speed of Light and beyond
			 Re: Space Station costs
		     Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
		      RE: Speed of Light and beyond
	       Re: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
			     Space Simulation
		      Re: Speed of Light and beyond
			breaking the light barrier
		 Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!trwrb!trwrba!cepu!mitch
From: cepu!mitch (Bob Mitchell )
Subject: moving through time/moving through space
Date: 20 May 85 18:47:55 GMT
Reply-To: mitch@cepu.UUCP (Bob Mitchell (ADM))
Organization: VA Wadsworth Med. Center; LA CA


>Gee, I find it easy to move through time without moving through space.
>Rip van Winkle found it even easier..

>>The speed of the sun on this journey is very great.  Our sun and Earth,
>>and you along with them, all are moving around the center of the galaxy
>>-- right now -- at about 150 miles PER SECOND!
 
Gee, I guess the world left you behind, eh?  :-)


-- 
Bob Mitchell
UCLA Dept of Neurology
uucp:	{ {ihnp4, uiucdcs}!bradley, hao, trwrb}!cepu!mitch
ARPA: cepu!mitch@ucla-cs

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!ihnp4!mgnetp!dicomed!mecc!sewilco
From: mecc!sewilco (Scot E. Wilcoxon)
Subject: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
Date: 15 May 85 20:46:34 GMT
Organization: MN Ed Comp Corp, St Paul

If one gets stuck in free-fall in an atmosphere, at least
Skylab's swimming technique should work.  Shuttle crew can
"easily" test other methods (including drifting to air
intake vents).

Getting stuck "motionless" in vacuum is another matter.  But
if one got stuck there by pushing another mass away, won't
the astronaut and the mass meet again in one orbit?  I'm sure
someone reading this knows with more certainty than I, but I
think the two orbits will cross.  I'm not as certain about
their being at the same place at the same time.
(Let's not bring up the shuttle satellite launches..the
shuttle uses rockets to move away from satellite, and
satellite motors [usually] also force them into other
orbits)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 May 85  9:59:04 EDT
From: Dick Koolish <koolish@bbncd2.arpa>
Subject: halley program
To: space@mit-mc.arpa

I have a copy of the Halley position program that was converted to C
and distributed to net.sources.  If anybody wants a copy, send me a message
at koolish@bbn-unix.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!mcnc!rti-sel!rtp47!throopw
From: rtp47!throopw (Wayne Throop)
Subject: RE: Speed of Light and beyond
Date: 20 May 85 16:49:25 GMT
Organization: Data General, RTP, NC

In <1982@sdcrdcf.UUCP> Darrel VanBuer says
> Cherenkov radiation results (i.e. light) when anything goes faster than the
> speed of light in a medium.  Of course this only happens when the medium is
> "slower" than a vacuum (e.g. water at 75% of c) since the particle still
> limited by c.
> Darrel J. Van Buer, PhD

I was under the impression that the "anything" had to be charged, IE, an
FTL neutron would not produce Cherenkov radiation.  If I'm wrong, can
someone more up on particle physics mail me a contradiction?

In <5608@utzoo.UUCP> Henry Spencer says
> Sigh, I knew about Cerenkov radiation, and if I thought people would be
> this picky [I know, I know, I've done it myself sometimes...] I would
> have qualified all references to "speed of light" with "in a vacuum".
> I thought it was reasonably clear from the original posting that the
> question referred to spaceships, i.e. operations in a vacuum.  Now, if
> somebody can tell me whether an FTL starship would emit Cerenkov radiation
> in a vacuum, *that* would be interesting.
> 				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology

Now *there's* a more difficult question.  Since a spaceship presumably
contains some charged particles, if it went FTL (thru water for example)
I expect it *would* emit Cherenkov radiation.  This probably would be
pretty hard to detect amidst the vaporization of the spaceship. :-)

On the other hand, just how is the ship supposed to acheive FTL status
(in a vacuum)?  If it is "hyperspace" or "wormholes" or whatnot, I'd
expect no FTL shockwave, since these ideas generally have to do with
remaining STL with respect to some "higher space" and sidestepping the
issue.

If it uses the "correspondence tachyon" method (where every particle of
the spaceship is replaced by a corresponding tachyon), I expect it
*would* emit Cherenkov radiation, assuming that tachyons have charge.
Isn't one of the methods used to search for tachyons to look for the
Cherenkov radiation?  Interestingly enough, assuming that a tachyon
emits Cherenkov radiation, it would naturally decay to lower energy
(that is, higher speed) states, accelerating to "infinite" speed.  A
convenient way to get your spaceship to hurry up.

In any event, I'm performing the "public service" of adding net.physics
to the newsgroups of this line of discussion.  It seems more relevant to
particle physics than orbital mechanics or near term space engineering.
-- 
Wayne Throop at Data General, RTP, NC
<the-known-world>!mcnc!rti-sel!rtp47!throopw

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!spar!freeman
From: spar!freeman (Jay Freeman)
Subject: Re: Speed of Light and beyond
Date: 20 May 85 19:07:35 GMT
Reply-To: freeman@max.UUCP (Jay Freeman)
Organization: Schlumberger Palo Alto Research, CA

/* libation to line-eater */

In article <5602@utzoo.UUCP> henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) writes:
>> I know this is impossible, but what would happen if...
>> 
>> A ship could exceed the speed of light?
>
>More seriously, as I recall it, the basic answer to this from relativity
>(if we ignore tachyons, which are a messy case) is "does not compute".
>Faster-than-light speeds involve logical contradictions (notably, loss of
>the normal cause-and-effect relationship) according to special relativity.
>This being the case, the theory basically cannot give coherent predictions
>about such a situation.
>
>I'd be very interested to hear this contradicted by somebody who knows
>more about the subject...

I won't claim to know more about it, but that never kept me from
contradicting anybody :-)

The mathematics of special relativity does not strictly prohibit FTL speeds.
That mathematics says, in essence, that objects in the universe can be
divided into five classes:  (1) Things moving forward in time, slower than
light; (2) things moving forward in time, exactly at the speed of light;
(3) things moving faster than light (including infinitely fast, and also
including both forward and backward in time); (4) things moving backward
in time, at the speed of light; and (5) things moving backward in time,
slower than light.

The mathematics also says that the action of performing a "Lorentz boost"
-- the kind of transformation that has all those square roots of (one minus
vee square over c square) in it -- can NEVER move an object from one class
into another.  A Lorentz boost corresponds roughly to applying a classical
force to an object for a while -- perhaps more accurately to giving it a
classical kick in the pants, so that the physical interpretation of this
mathematics is roughly "if it's slower than light now, you can't make it
go FTL with classical forces."  But there is no objection to objects which
are already FTL (though there seems to be no experimental evidence of them,
either).  And there is no statement, (I think) that such non-classical events
such as particle decays cannot produce tachyons.

Many particle physicists, incidentally, will claim the "backwards in time"
objects are quite real, namely, as antiparticles.

It is indeed true that FTL implies breakdown of causality, but it is also
true that the mathematics of the Lorentz transformation contains no
assumption that causality holds in the first place.  This is an ADDITIONAL
assumption, which philosphers and physicists may put in or not, as they see
fit.  It is erroneous to state that "the Lorentz transformations prohibit
FTL because causality is then violated"; because the Lorentz transformations
do not feature causality as a postulate.

Incidentally, an object is moving "infinitely fast" when its world line is
(at least temporarily) perpendicular to the observer's time axis.

-- 
-- Jay Reynolds Freeman (Schlumberger Palo Alto Research)

------------------------------

Date: 23 May 85 09:49:44 PDT (Thursday)
From: Lynn.es@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: Halley magnitude
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Lynn.es@Xerox.ARPA

"magnitude 4.0 on April 5th. This is dissapointing.
according to articles I've read here and elsewhere is should get up to
magnitude 2.0, about the same as Polaris.  Can anyone shed light on
this?"

The brightness estimates for Halley's Comet around magnitude 4 are based
on trying to plot curves through a graph of magnitude estimates made
during the last few passages of Halley's by many different astronomers
with both naked eye and through various instruments, without any
standardized methods.  Then they adjust for the different distances
involved in this passage of Halley's.  Needless to say, the data are
pretty inconsistent.  

Some comet experts have estimated a few magnitudes brighter after
analyzing the methods used by some of the astronomers at the 1910
appearance, and after tossing out estimates made by unknown methods or
suspected unreliable observers.  The present measurements of brightness
are dimmer than anyones estimate (apparently because we are
extrapolating to a point too far before passage by the sun, for which no
data have ever been gathered), so we still don't know who will be right.

But remember even if the brighter estimates are right, that is equal to
the light of Polaris SPREAD OUT OVER A FAIR PIECE OF SKY, which is a lot
different than a pin point of second magnitude star light.

/Don Lynn

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!ISM780!gary
From: ISM780!gary
Subject: Re: Getting UNSTUCK in the middle of spa
Date: 21 May 85 21:05:00 GMT


/* Written  2:47 pm  May 13, 1985 by jkw@lanl in ISM780:net.space */
> > an ordinary bicycle tire pump.  All these ideas center around the
> > standard principle that all rockets work by ...ically
> 
> Er, one could, um, auh, ynow, use a, er liquid jet.  After coffee
> one has at least a pint or so of 'reaction mass'.  Just a thought ...
> and only in an emergency ...
> -- 
> 
> E. Michael Smith  ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems
> 
> Tilapia Zilli is the way and the light.
> 
> This is the obligatory disclaimer of everything.


...Not to mention that the, er, uh, spigot or um, nozzle, is fairly near
the center of gravity...
/* End of text from ISM780:net.space */

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ucbvax!ucsfcgl!rl
From: ucsfcgl!rl (Robert Langridge%CGL)
Subject: Re: Speed of Light and beyond
Date: 20 May 85 08:01:07 GMT
Reply-To: rl@ucsfcgl.UUCP
Organization: UCSF Computer Graphics Lab

In article <1776@mordor.UUCP> @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC:TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA writes:
>I know this is impossible, but what would happen if...
>A ship could exceed the speed of light?  When the space shuttle crosses the
>sound barrier, there is a sonic boom.  If it were possible to cross the
>"light barrier", what phenomenon would result?

There is an equivalent to the "sonic boom" which occurs when the speed of a 
particle entering a transparent medium (i.e. water) exceeds the group velocity
of light in that medium.  It is known as Cerenkov radiation and is in fact
used in some modes of particle detection.

Bob Langridge				(rl@ucsfcgl.UUCP)
Computer Graphics Laboratory		
926 Medical Sciences			(rl@ucsfcgl.ARPA)
University of California		       
San Francisco
CA  94143				(Phone: +1 415 666 2630)

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!hplabs!ames!aurora!al
From: aurora!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Re: Space Station costs
Date: 14 May 85 19:28:04 GMT
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

> 
> I just reread Gene's post and must correct the numbers. The space station
> funding is ~$8B over 10-12 years (A ludicrously long timeframe). The
> average funding is in $100M's/year.  The NASA budget is about 6.5B/yr, and I
> believe about 50% of that is for aeronautics rather than astronautics. If
> anyone is interested in the actual breakdown, I'll try to dig it up and post
> it.

Aeronautics is considerably less than 50%.  Also, the $8 billion does not
include launch, crew, training, or any payloads.  It does not include
$3-4 billion of foreign participation.   It does not include substational
internal funds NASA contractors have invested (NASA did a wonderful job
of getting the contractors to spend their own money in the initial studies,
including the current phase B studies).  Total cost is hard to estimate,
particularly over the 20-30 year design life of the station.  My guess is
$15-20 billion to IOC (initial operational capability) and plenty more
after it.

This is not to knock the station, I'm a big fan (in fact I work on it).  But
the fact is that total cost is considerably in excess of $8 billion.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!spar!freeman
From: spar!freeman (Jay Freeman)
Subject: Re: reentry of paper airplanes?
Date: 22 May 85 18:07:51 GMT
Reply-To: freeman@max.UUCP (Jay Freeman)
Organization: Schlumberger Palo Alto Research, CA

/* libation to line-eater */

In article <1975@sdcrdcf.UUCP> lwall@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Larry Wall) writes:

>Write your address on it, and attach a postage stamp.  And hope it doesn't
>land in someone's swimming pool.
>
With all the fuss about stability augmentation for the shuttle, I doubt that
the fact that a paper airplane is airplane-shaped would have much to do with
its chances for surviving reentry.  

But how about just tossing out a bunch of stamped, self-addressed postcards
and seeing whether any of them ever came back?

-- 

-- Jay Reynolds Freeman (Schlumberger Palo Alto Research) (canonical disclaimer)

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!brl-tgr!gwyn
From: gwyn@brl-tgr.ARPA (Doug Gwyn <gwyn@brl-tgr.ARPA>)
Subject: RE: Speed of Light and beyond
Date: 23 May 85 12:38:07 GMT
Organization: Ballistic Research Lab

> Isn't one of the methods used to search for tachyons to look for the
> Cherenkov radiation?

Yes, and you may notice they haven't found any.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!zehntel!hplabs!ames!aurora!al
From: aurora!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Re: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
Date: 14 May 85 19:32:38 GMT
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

This is a non-problem, unless the astronaut is exactly at the center of
mass of the space vehicle.  If the center of mass is at a different place
the astronaut will have a slightly different orbit around the Earth and
will eventually reach the side of the space ship.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!houxm!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!hplabs!ames!aurora!al
From: aurora!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Space Simulation
Date: 16 May 85 22:43:12 GMT
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

This letter didn't get through so I'm posting it in hopes of
getting through.  Sorry for the inconvenience.

To: ames!hplabs!intelca!qantel!dual!mordor!@S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC:moseley%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
Subject: Re: HELP REQUEST FOR SIMULATION COURSE

Nothing comes immediately to mind, but we do a great deal of space project
simulation here (space station operational simulation, orbital refueling
system).   I would like to talk to you about what you're class might do,
and with a day or two's thinking I'm fairly sure I could come up with
several interesting projects.  Please give me a ring at:

	(415) 694-5751 or
	(408) 425-7038

Please do not call before 9AM California time.

al globus

P.S.  How about simulating an automated experiment module?  One group at
Ames is interested in automation technologies for the life science modele.
There might be some synergy.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ucbvax!ucsfcgl!rl
From: ucsfcgl!rl (Robert Langridge%CGL)
Subject: Re: Speed of Light and beyond
Date: 23 May 85 02:25:32 GMT
Reply-To: rl@ucsfcgl.UUCP
Organization: UCSF Computer Graphics Lab

<--
A quick introduction to faster-than-light travel (by charged particles
at least), and the use of the resultant electromagnetic equivalent of the
sonic boom, is given on pages 58-60 of the June 1985 Scientific American.

Bob Langridge   rl@ucsfcgl (UUCP and ARPA)

------------------------------

From: crash!bwebster@SDCSVAX.ARPA
Date: Thu, 23 May 85 13:08:23 PDT
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: breaking the light barrier


I remember reading an SF short (very short) story about the light barrier.
In it, the handsome, brilliant hero built his star ship based on an unlimited
power supply he had discovered.  He shoved the throttle forward, and when he
hit the speed of light, his ship attained infinite mass and caused the entire
universe to collapse into a giant black hole.

The moral:  you *can* go faster than light . . . once.

						..bruce..
					    crash!bwebster@ucsd

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!sabre!zeta!epsilon!gamma!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!cbosgd!ukma!sean
From: ukma!sean (Sean Casey)
Subject: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
Date: 22 May 85 06:51:56 GMT
Reply-To: sean@ukma.UUCP (Sean Casey)
Organization: The White Tower @ The Univ. of KY

In article <129@mecc.UUCP> sewilco@mecc.UUCP (Scot E. Wilcoxon) writes:
>
>Getting stuck "motionless" in vacuum is another matter.  But
>if one got stuck there by pushing another mass away, won't
>the astronaut and the mass meet again in one orbit?  I'm sure
>someone reading this knows with more certainty than I, but I
>think the two orbits will cross.

If the Astronaut threw a mass in exactly the same line of his orbit,
they would meet again eventually, but the Astronaut would be long dead
from lack of air.  Assuming the astronaut threw a 30 MPH pitch with the
mass, it would have to circumscribe a circle much larger than the
circumference of the earth, at a speed of 30 MPH. It would be more than
35 days before the object made it back around. If the course of the
object deviated from the "orbit line" in the slightest, the chances of
the two ever meeting again are, uh, astronomical.
-- 
-  Sean Casey				UUCP:	{cbosgd,anlams,hasmed}!ukma!sean
-  Department of Mathematics		ARPA:	ukma!sean@ANL-MCS.ARPA	
-  University of Kentucky

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #168
*******************

25-May-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #169    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 169

Today's Topics:
			cheap interstellar probes
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Friday, 24 May 1985 06:41:30-PDT
From: redford%avoid.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (John Redford)
To: space@mc, jlr%avoid.DEC@decwrl.ARPA
Subject: cheap interstellar probes

Hmmm, what could we do to make a cheap interstellar probe?  The parameters
proposed were that the probe has to report back within a hundred years 
from a star no more than 20 light years away.  That seems a long way away.
How about if we just stick with Alpha Centauri at 4.3 ly, and say 
that it has to report back within fifty years?  That implies a trip 
time of 46 years, and a velocity of about 0.1C, or 30,000 km/s .  
We're not going to get that with chemical rockets.  One restriction 
was reasonably near-term technology, so matter-antimatter drives are 
out.  Fission drives seem a bit bulky, and we don't know how to do controlled
fusion drives, so we'll put those aside.  How about a laser-driven 
light sail, like in "The Mote in God's Eye"? Light sails work by reflecting
photons, thus gaining twice the momentum of the photon stream.  The
momentum, p, of a stream of photons is E/c where E is the stream's energy,
so the change in momentum of the sail is 2E/c.  The change in momentum
per unit time is 2P/c, where P is the power of the stream.  The acceleration
of the sail, a, is the change in momentum per unit time divided by 
the mass of the sail, m, so:

a = (2/c) * (P/m)

We want to get the velocity up t0.1C2C in 46 years, so

v = a*t = (2/c) * (P/m) * t

P/m = v*c / 2*t = 6e6 W/kg

For every kilogram of sail, we must apply 6 million watts for 46 years.
That works out to 2.6 billion kW-hrs of energy per kilogram of sail, or
(at seven cents per kilowatt-hour) 180 million dollars worth of energy
per kg.

This looks pretty grim.  Never mind the problems of keeping a laser focussed
on a sail 4 light-years away, or keeping the sail 
from melting in the beam.  A 1000 kg probe will cost 180 billion bucks 
just in energy to get to the nearest star.  Time to break out the hyperdrive.

John Redford
DEC-Hudson

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #169
*******************

26-May-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #170    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 170

Today's Topics:
	       Re: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
		 Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
			       Launch Delay
		       Re: Apollo 13 (Space Flight)
			   Interstellar probes
			      Rescue Attempt
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!phoenix!brent
From: phoenix!brent (Brent P. Callaghan)
Subject: Re: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
Date: 23 May 85 15:14:19 GMT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft NJ

Al Globus writes:
> This is a non-problem, unless the astronaut is exactly at the center of
> mass of the space vehicle.  If the center of mass is at a different place
> the astronaut will have a slightly different orbit around the Earth and
> will eventually reach the side of the space ship.

Surely this depends on whether the spacecraft has earth synchronous
rotation or not.

A three axis stabilized spacecraft pointing its instruments at
various stellar objects does not rotate.  If the center of mass of
such a spacecraft is in a circular orbit, then points distributed
about this point will be in various elliptical orbits which maintain
a constant separation.

If we assume a polar or equatorial orbit, wouldn't the perturbations
be negligible ?
-- 
				
Made in New Zealand -->		Brent Callaghan
				AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft, NJ
				{ihnp4|mtuxo|pegasus}!phoenix!brent
				(201) 576-3475

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!alberta!sask!zaphod!dkatz
From: zaphod!dkatz (Dave Katz)
Subject: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
Date: 22 May 85 15:36:31 GMT
Reply-To: dkatz@zaphod.UUCP (Dave Katz)
Organization: Develcon Electronics, Saskatoon, SK

In article <129@mecc.UUCP> sewilco@mecc.UUCP (Scot E. Wilcoxon) writes:
>  ...
>Getting stuck "motionless" in vacuum is another matter.  But
>if one got stuck there by pushing another mass away, won't
>the astronaut and the mass meet again in one orbit?  I'm sure
>someone reading this knows with more certainty than I, but I
>think the two orbits will cross.   .....

Depend partly on what you mean by "crossing".

If the objects are not of equal mass, the lighter one will have a
greater velocity (conservation of momentum), and hence a lower orbit
since the radius of orbit is inversly proportional to the velocity.

This gets more complex with considerations of the angle, relative to
the direction of travel, etc.  leading to elliptical orbits, etc.
but will only apply as stated if both bodies have the same mass.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Launch Delay
Date: 24 May 85 04:27:13 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The launch of the Discovery has been put off, from 12 June,
to no earlier than 17 June, due to a potential problem with
two of the four satellites to be launched during the mission.
The problem is in an antenna positioning mechanism, and NASA
decided to replace the mechanisms on both affected satellites
rather than risk a defect developing in space.

Discovery is to be moved to the VAB on Tuesday.  An hour later,
Atlantis will be towed to the OFP, where it will begin undergoing
preparations for its 26 September maiden voyage.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!rochester!cmu-cs-pt!cadre!psuvax1!burdvax!bnapl
From: burdvax!bnapl (Tom Albrecht)
Subject: Re: Apollo 13 (Space Flight)
Date: 24 May 85 16:53:48 GMT
Reply-To: bnapl@burdvax.UUCP (Tom Albrecht)
Organization: Burroughs Corp. - SDG/Devon


	The PBS series "Space Flight" did a very good job in recounting
the events of the ill-fated Apollo 13 mission.  As a matter of fact, the
whole series of shows has been very good; much better than that
historical-romance fluff called "Space".   Or was it called "Sex"?-:)

-- 
Tom Albrecht 		Burroughs Corp.
			...{presby|psuvax1|sdcrdcf}!burdvax!bnapl

Communism is to government what astrology is to science.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 May 85 14:44:50 pdt
From: Ross Finlayson <rsf@Pescadero>
Subject: Interstellar probes
To: space@mit-mc

It seems to me that there are two basic psychological problems that are going 
to stand in the way of any interstellar mission taking place in the (very) 
near future.

The first problem can be illustrated as follows:  Suppose that we currently 
have the technology to send an (unmanned) probe to a nearby star, knowing that 
it would take 100 years to get there.  Suppose also that we are fairly 
confident that in 20 years time, our technology will have improved 
sufficiently to allow the trip to be made in 50 years instead of 100.  Given 
this scenario, would we seriously consider launching a probe in 1985?  It 
hardly seems likely - it would make far more sense to wait until 2005, and 
thus save 30 years.  However, come 2005, we might well feel that in another 
10 years we would have the technology to make the trip in 30 years instead of 
50.  Thus, we would be tempted to postpone the mission until 2015, to save 
another 10 years.

In other words, we would not send out a probe until we were confident that we
could not advance the arrival time by waiting for further advances in
technology.  In an ideal world, this would be an optimal strategy.  In 
practice, however, a technological stasis is likely to result.  Many early 
probe designs will not get tested, and the actual rate of technological 
advancement is likely to be considerably retarded, to the extent that we might
not reach the stars until several decades later than we could.  (I suppose the
`ideal' probe would be one that is able to adapt itself to advances in 
technology as they are discovered on Earth and radioed to the probe while in 
transit :-)

The second problem is more obvious.  Even if we were sure that we could not 
improve significantly on the 100 year transit time (at least, not within the 
next 100 years), how many people would be willing to support a multi-billion
dollar project, the results of which only their great-great-grandchildren
would see?  I know I would, but many members of Congress seem unable to look
further than their next election.  Our friend Sen. Proxmire woud have a field
day.

Fortunately Columbus, Magellan, Tasman, Cook etc. weren't faced with these
problems.

Ross Finlayson
Stanford CS Dept.
ARPA: rsf@su-pescadero.ARPA
UUCP: ...!{decwrl,ucbvax}!Glacier!Shasta!rsf

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Rescue Attempt
Date: 25 May 85 05:15:10 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

Astronauts on the August shuttle mission will try to repair
in orbit the failed Syncom satellite that was stranded during
earlier this year.  The resuce attempt will involve two
spacewalking crew members bypassing the electronic timing
mechanism on the satellite, enabling the satellite to receive
commands from the ground.  NASA cautions that there is limited
chance for success, because the satellite is now being exposed
to temperatures far below its design specifications.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #170
*******************

27-May-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #171    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 171

Today's Topics:
		 Re: Getting UNSTUCK in the middle of spa
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!denelcor!denelvx!neal
From: denelvx!neal (Neal Weidenhofer)
Subject: Re: Getting UNSTUCK in the middle of spa
Date: 25 May 85 22:10:42 GMT
Organization: Denelcor, Aurora, Colorados

******************************************************************************
> 
> ...Not to mention that the, er, uh, spigot or um, nozzle, is fairly near
> the center of gravity...

	But just imagine the screams of sexual discrimination because of
males' superior directional control.

			Regards,
				Neal Weidenhofer
"Blame it on the Rolling	Denelcor, Inc.
	Stones"			<hao|csu-cs|brl-bmd>!denelcor!neal

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #171
*******************

28-May-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #172    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 172

Today's Topics:
			  GENERAL SPACE REPORTS
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <crash!usiiden!markf@Nosc>
Date: Mon, 27 May 85 14:07:20 PDT
To: crash!noscvax!space@mit-mc
Subject: GENERAL SPACE REPORTS

TO:SPACENET
 SUBJECT: THE FOLLOWING ARE A BUNCH OF NASA NEWS REPORTS FROM THE 
       INTERCOMEX BULLETIN BOARD IN DENVER, CO. NEWS ITEMS ARE SOMETIMES
       SLIGHTLY EDITED TO REDUCE SIZE FOR EASY READIBILITY, BUT ALL ITEMS
       MAINTAIN CONTENT INTEGRITY. HOPE YOU FIND THESE INTERESTING. 
 FROM: CRASH!USIIDEN!MARKF@NOSC (MARK FELTON)   

FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: POSSIBLE ASTEROID FLY-BY
NASA ADM. JAMES M. BEGGS HAS APPROVED THE ADDITION OF AN 
ASTEROID FLYBY OPTION TO THE GALILEO MISSION AND TO CHANGE THE
JUPITER ARRIVAL DATE FROM AUG TO DEC 1988. THE OPTION WILL
PERMIT A POST LAUNCH DECISION TO FLY BY THE ASTEROID 29
AMPHITRITE IN DEC 1986. ** IF THE OPTION IS ELECTED, IT WOULD
ADD A SIGNIFICANT FIRST TO THE GALILEO MISSION. **
AMPHITRITE IS IN A NEAR CIRCULAR ORBIT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 
ASTEROID BELT AT 2.5 AU FROM THE SUN (1 AU = ABOUT 150,000,000
KM). AMPHITRITE, ABOUT 200 KM IN DIAMETER, IS ONE OF THE
LARGER OF THE MINOR PLANETS. ** THE FLYBY DISTANCE WILL BE
DETERMINED BY SPACECRAFT SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS. AT PRESENT,
10-20,000 KM IS CONSIDERED SAFE AND SHOULD ADD SIGNIFICANT
SCIENTIFIC DATA FROM MEASUREMENTS AND DOPPLER TRACKING DATA
OBTAINED FROM THAT DISTANCE. ** AMPHITRITE APPEARS AS THE 12TH
LARGEST ASTEROID AND HAS FLUCTUATIONS SUGGESTING A ROTATION
PERIOD OF 5.39 HRS. AT THAT RATE, MOST OF THE SURFACE CAN BE 
PHOTOGRAPHED AND SCANNED BY GALILEO'S MAPPING SPECTROMETER. 
ANALYSIS WILL REVEAL SIZE, SHAPE, MASS AND DENSITY, ITS EXACT
ROTATION RATE AND POLE ORIENTATION AND ITS DETAILED SURFACE
MORPHOLOGY AND MINERAL COMPOSITION. THESE WILL DETERMINE IF IT
IS A PRIMITIVE ACCUMULATION OF SOLAR NEBULAE CONDENSATES OR
WHETHER IT IS AN EVOLVED BODY THAT IS A FRAGMENT, OR PERHAPS A
CORE, OF A BROKEN UP MINOR PLANET. INFORMATION WILL HELP
DETERMINE IF ASTEROIDS ARE A SOURCE OF METEORITES WHICH FALL
ON THE EARTH. **
AMPHITRITE, THE 29TH ASTEROID DISCOVERED, WAS DETECTED BY 
ALBERT MARTH, IN LONDON, ENGLAND, AT THE WILLIAM BISHOP 
OBSERVATORY ON MARCH 1, 1854. THE ASTEROID WAS NAMED FOR ONE
OF THE MYTHICAL GOD NEPTUNE'S WIVES. ** JIM KUKOWSKI HQ AND
MARY BETH MURRILL JET PROPULSION LAB (PASADENA, CA) **
*********************
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: MATERIALS PROCESSING LAB
A MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING SIGNED BY THE NATIONAL 
AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION AND ROCKWELL 
INTERNATIONAL CORP., DOWNEY CALIF. COULD PROVIDE FUTURE 
SHUTTLE FLIGHT ASSIGNMENTS FOR ON-ORBIT TRANSPORT OF THE 
AEROSPACE FIRM'S UNIQUELY-DESIGNED MATERIALS PROCESSING 
LABORATORY. ** UNDER THE TERMS OF THE 180 DAY MOU, ROCKWELL 
WILL DEVELOP AN INDUSTRIAL SPACE PROCESSING PROGRAM IN WHICH
THE COMPANY'S MODULAR, ZERO GRAVITY LABORATORY WOULD BE MADE
AVAILABLE TO RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS AND COMMERCIAL FIRMS FOR
INSTALLATION AND OPERATION OF DEVELOPMENT EXPERIMENTS. **
EXPERIMENT PACKAGES WOULD INVOLVE A RANGE OF PROCESSING
APPLICATIONS INCLUDING LIQUID CHEMISTRY, FLUID PHYSICS,
THERMODYNAMICS, CRYSTAL GROWTH AND BIOLOGICAL CELL CULTURING.
** ROCKWELL'S LABORATORY - WITH AN IN-HOUSE COMPANY NAME OF
FLUIDS EXPERIMENT APPARATUS (FEA) - IS DESIGNED FOR PLACEMENT
IN STOWAGE AREAS OF THE SHUTTLE'S MID-DECK WHERE IT WOULD BE
ENGAGED AND MONITORED BY SHUTTLE CREW MEMBERS. ** THE ZERO-G
LABORATORY, ABOUT THE SIZE OF A 19 INCH TELEVISION SET, IS THE
FIRST INDUSTRIALLY DEVELOPED LABORATORY TO BE MADE AVAILABLE
TO THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY AND COMMERCIAL FIRMS PERMITTING 
THE PROPRIETARY PURSUIT OF BASIC AND PRODUCT RESEARCH IN 
LOW-EARTH ORBIT. ** THE FEA WAS SUCCESSFULLY SPACE FLOWN AND
OPERATED LAST SUMMER ON SHUTTLE MISSION 41-D (8/30 TO 9/5/84)
WHEN, USING THE FLOAT ZONE TECHNIQUE, A SINGLE INDIUM CRYSTAL
WAS GROWN WITH A LATTICE STRUCTURE ORIGINATING FROM A CRYSTAL
SEED. ** EDWARD CAMPION HQ
************************
FROM: MARK FELTON
SUBJ: SAGAN & SAGDEEV - MARS ???
ASTRONOMER CARL SAGAN CALLED FOR A JOINT PROGRAM TO PUT AN 
AMERICAN AND A SOVIET ON MARS BY THE YR 2003. ONE OF THE TOP
OFFICIALS OF THE SOVIET ACADEMY OF SCIENCE, ROALD SAGDEEV,
EXPRESS INTEREST IN THE IDEA. BOTH MEN PLEADED FOR A REVIVAL
OF COOPERATION BETWEEN THE SUPERPOWERS. **
SAGDEEV, WHO RUNS THE SOVIETS' UNMANNED PLANETARY 
EXPLORATATION PROGRAM AND WAS MAKING A RARE PUBLIC APPEARANCE
IN AMERICA, SAID IT IS VITAL THAT "THE UNITED STATES AND
SOVIET UNION POSSESS SOME JOINT OBJECT IN SPACE." ** HE
STOPPED SHORT OF ENDORSING SAGANS' IDEA WHICH CALLS FOR AN
EARTH ORBITING STATION WHERE A MARS BOUND SPACESHIP COULD BE
ASSEMBLED. THIS WOULD ELIMINATE THE NEED TO HAVE THE SHIP
BREAK FROM EARTH GRAVITY. THE COST, ONCE THE SPACE STATION WAS
BUILT WOULD BE $40 BILLION, THE B-1 BOMBER COSTS $25 BILLION,
THE STAR WARS PLAN $1 TRILLION.
** SAGDEEV'S INTEREST IN THE MARS PLAN WAS CAUTIOUS, ALTHOUGH
CLEARLY EAGER FOR JOINT VENTURES SUCH AS APOLLO-SOYUZ. THERE
SHOULD BE COOPERATION IN SEARCH-AND-
RESCUE SATELLITES AND LIFE-SCIENCE EXPERIMENTS IN SPACE, HE 
SAID. ** OTHER SPEAKERS AT THE CONFERENCE HELD BY THE 
PLANETARY SOCIETY AND THE NATL. ACADEMY OF ARTS AND SCIENCES
INCLUDED MAJOR ARCHITECTS AND CRITICS OF THE "STAR WARS"
(STRATEGIC DEFENSE INITIATIVE) POLICY. GEROLD YONAS, THE
PROGRAM'S CHIEF SCIENTIST, IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION BY 
SAGDEEV, ASSERTED THE SOVIETS HAVE ALREADY SPENT FAR MORE THAN
THE U.S. TO DEVELOP FIGHTING CAPABILITY IN SPACE. RATHER THAN
STOP THE RESEARCH, HE SAID, "IT'S IN BOTH OUR INTEREST TO
MUTUALLY DEPLOY." ** TAKEN FROM AN ASSOCIATED PRESS ARTICLE BY
HENRY GOTTLIED PUBLISHED IN THE DENVER POST JAN 13, 1985 **
**********************
SUBJ: ATLAS CENTAUR CONTRACT
THE NASA LEWIS RESEARCH CENTER, CLEVELAND, HAS AWARDED A 
FOLLOW ON CONTRACT VALUED AT $32,346,000 TO THE CONVAIR 
DIVISION (GD/C), GENERAL DYNAMICS, SAN DIEGO. ** UNDER TERMS
OF THE CONTRACT, GD/C WILL PERFORM OPERATIONS TO ERECT, TEST
AND LAUNCH THE ATLAS CENTAUR LAUNCH VEHICLES. ADDITIONALLY,
THE CONTRACT WILL INCLUDE THE SUPPORT TESTING AND LAUNCH OF
CENTAUR UPPER STAGES TO BE USED ON SHUTTLE MISSION SCHEDULED
FOR 1986. MODIFICATIONS OF THE LAUNCH FACILITY FOR THE
CAPABILITY ARE ALSO INCLUDED IN THE CONTRACT. ** THE
COST-PLUS-AWARD-FEE CONTRACT, BEGINNING JANUARY 1, 1985, AND
RUNNING THROUGH DECEMBER 1986, IS A CONTINUATION OF WORK
PERFORMED UNDER EARLIER CONTRACTS WITH GD/C. WORK WILL BE
PERFORMED AT THE EASTERN SPACE AND MISSILE CENTER, FLA. **
CENTAUR IS A HIGH ENERGY UPPER STAGE CURRENTLY USED WITH
EXPENDABLE BOOSTERS TO DELIVER LARGE PAYLOADS TO
GEOSYNCHRONOUS ORBIT. IT IS EXPECTED TO ADD SUBSTANTIALLY TO
THE SPACE SHUTTLE'S ABILITY BY CARRYING HEAVIER PAYLOADS FROM
LOW EARTH ORBIT TO GEOSYNCHRONOUS ORBIT OR INTERPLANETARY
TRAJECTORIES. **
DEBRA J. RAHN HQ AND MARY ANN PETO LEWIS RES CENTER, CLEVE.
****************************
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: BLOOD EXPERIMENT ON SHUTTLE
AN EXPERIMENT TO INVESTIGATE THE EFFECTS OF DIFFERENT DISEASES
ON RED BLOOD CELL AGGREGATION AND BLOOD VISCOSITY WILL BE
CARRIED ABOARD SPACE SHUTTLE FLIGHT 51-C. THE EXPERIMENT WAS
ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED TO BE FLOWN ON MISSION 51-A IN NOV. '84
BUT WAS WITHDRAWN FROM THE MAINFEST DUE TO ORBITER WEIGHT AND
CENTER OF GRAVITY CONSIDERATIONS. THE DEPT. OF DEFENSE ALLOWED
NASA TO ADD THE EXPERIMENT TO 51-C, A DEDICATED DOD MISSION.
** CALLED AGGREGATION OF RED BLOOD CELLS (ARC), THE EXPERIMENT
IS DESIGNED TO PROVIDE INFORMATION ON THE RATE OF FORMATION
(KINETICS) AND THE INTERNAL STRUCTURE AND ORGANIZATION
(MORPHOLOGY) OF RED CELLS, AND ON THE THICKNESS (VISCOSITY) OF
WHOLE BLOOD AT HIGH AND LOW FLOW RATES. ** BLOOD SAMPLES FROM
BOTH HEALTHY DONORS AND DONORS WITH DIFFERENT MEDICAL
CONDITIONS, SUCH AS HEART DISEASE, HYPERTENSION, DIABETES AND
CANCER, WILL BE USED. RESULTS OBTAINED IN MICROGRAVITY WILL BE
COMPARED WITH RESULTS FROM A GROUND BASED EXPERIMENT TO
DETERMINE WHAT EFFECTS GRAVITY HAS ON THE KINETICS AND
MORPHOLOGY OF THE BLOOD. THE GRND BASED EXPERIMENT WILL BE
CONDUCTED SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH THE FLIGHT EXP., USING IDENTICAL
BLOOD SAMPLES AND FUNCTIONALLY IDENTICAL HARDWARE. ** THE EXP.
USES 8 BLOOD SAMPLES NEAR 4 DEG C AND STORED IN TUBULAR 
SYRINGES. STIRRING IS ACCOMPLISHED BY A MOTOR DRIVEN MAGNET 
THAT ACTIVATES A TEFLON COATED STEEL BALL INSIDE THE SAMPLE.
THE BLOOD FLOWS TO A VISCOMETER, WHICH MEASURES RATE OF FLOW.
TWO 35MM CAMERAS PHOTOGRAPH THE BLOOD THROUGH A 10 AND 300 X
MICROSCOPE. THE EXP. WAS DEVELOPED BY DR. L. DINTENFASS (DEPT.
OF MED. RES.) IN SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA. ** C. REDMOND HQ; J.
KUKOWSKI HQ AND ED MEDAL MARSHALL SFC **
**************************
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: INDUSTRY SPACE PLATFORM
THE GODDARD SPACE FLIGHT CENTER, GREENBELT, MD., HAS ISSUED A
REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL, ASKING INDUSTRY TO DEVELOP A SPACE 
PLATFORM TO PROVIDE FIVE YEARS OF ON-ORBIT SERVICES TO NASA 
PAYLOADS AND STILL ALLOW THE DEVELOPER TO MARKET TO A WIDE 
VARIETY OF COMERCIAL USERS. ** IN A DEPARTURE FROM CUSTOMARY
PRACTICES, INDUSTRY WOULD FINANCE, DEVELOP, OWN AND OPERATE
THE PLATFORM.
** THE PLATFORM - WHICH IS TOTALLY SEPARATE FROM NASA'S PLANS
FOR A GOVERNMENT - DEVELOPED PERMANENT MANNED SPACE STATION -
COMMERCIAL ENTREPRENEUR WOULD BE FREE TO MARKET THE PLATFORM
SERVICES FOR MATERIALS PROCESSING OR OTHER MANUFACTURING TYPE
ACTIVITIES. ** HOWEVER, THE GOVERNMENT STIPULATES THAT THE
PLATFORM MUST BE CAPABLE OF PROVIDING SERVICES FOR THREE OF
NASA'S FORTHCOMING PROJECTS
- THE EXTREME ULTRAVIOLET EXPLORER (EUVE), THE X-RAY TIMING 
EXPLORER (XTE) AND ZERO GRAVITY PAYLOAD - AS WELL AS FOR A 
FOURTH AS YET UNIDENTIFIED PROJECT. ** THE EUVE WILL BE A FREE
FLYER AFTER ITS DEPLOYMENT FROM THE SPACE SHUTTLE ON A MISSION
NOW SCHEDULED FOR DEC. 1988. ITS PRIMARY OBJECTIVE WILL BE TO
CONDUCT A SURVEY OF THE ENTIRE CELESTIAL SPHERE (FULL-SKY) IN
THE EXTREME ULTRAVIOLET. THE SCIENCE PAYLOAD WILL WEIGH 1,600
LB. ** THE XTE WILL EXPLORE X-RAY SOURCES TO HELP SCIENTISTS
LEARN MORE ABOUT THE PHYSICAL LAWS GOVERNING THEIR BEHAVIOR.
THE XTE PAYLOAD WILL WEIGH BETWEEN 3300 TO 4400 LB. ** THE
MICRO-GRAVITY PAYLOAD CARRIER WILL WEIGH 2000 LB AND WILL BE
USED TO HOUSE MICRO-GRAVITY EXPERIMENTS ON ORBIT FOR UP TO 6
MO. THE CONTRACTOR WILL BE REQUIRED TO MAINTAIN THE
ZERO-GRAVITY ENVIRONMENT AND TO SUPPLY CONTINUOUS POWER UP TO
2KW. **
LEON PERRY HQ AND JIM ELLIOT GODDARD SPACE FLT CENTR.
*************************
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: TRACKING STATION TRANSFER
NASA'S GODDARD SPACE FLIGHT CENTER, GREENBELT, MD., WILL 
TRANSFER SPACECRAFT TRACKING AND DATA ACQUISITION OPERATIONS
FROM ITS BELTSVILLE TRACKING STATION TO ITS WALLOPS FLIGHT
FACILITY, WALLOPS ISLAND, VA., BY EARLY 1986. ** THIS MOVE
WILL CONSOLIDATE THESE SPACE OPERATIONS WITH WALLOP'S EXISTING
TRACKING AND DATA ACQUISITION EFFORTS IN SUPPORT OF BALLOON,
SOUNDING ROCKET AND AERONAUTICAL FLIGHT RESEARCH. ** THE
REALIGNMENT IS PART OF A GODDARD PROGRAM TO STREAMLINE ITS
TRACKING NETWORK FACILITIES AS THE NEED FOR GROUND STATIONS
DIMINISHES WITH THE ADVENT OF THE NEW SPACEBORNE TRACKING AND
DATA RELAY SATELLITE SYSTEM. ** (TDRSS). ** TDRSS WIL CONSIST
OF THREE COMMUNICATIONS SATELLITES IN EARTH GEOSYNCHRONOUS
ORBIT TO PROVIDE GLOBAL COVERAGE OF EARTH ORBITING SATELLITES,
REPLACING THE CURRENT WORLDWIDE NETWORK OF GROUND STATIONS. 
THE FIRST TDRSS SATELLITE WAS LAUNCHED IN APRIL 1983. THE 
SECOND SATELLITE WILL BE LAUNCHED ABOUT FEB. 20. ** MOST OF 
THE TRACKING STATIONS IN GODDARD'S CURRENT WORLDWIDE NETWORK
WILL BE EITHER PHASED OUT OR TRANSFERRED TO OTHER AGENCIES OR
TO NASA'S DEEP SPACE NETWORK AS THE TDRSS BECOMES OPERATIONAL.
** IN ADDITION TO WALLOPS, GODDARD WILL CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN
GROUND NETWORK STATIONS AT BERMUDA AND MERRITT ISLAND, FLA.,
FOR SUPPORT OF*CENTER, FLA., DURING THE TDRSS ERA. THE STATION IN WHITE
SANDS, N.M., IS THE GROUND TERMINAL FOR THE ORBITING TDRSS
SATELLITES. ** KEN ATCHISON HQ WASHINGTON, D.C.
*************************
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: AVIATION REPORTING
NASA'S ANONYMOUS AND VOLUNTARY AVIATION SAFETY REPORTING 
SYSTEM (ASRS) IN EIGHT YRS HAS EVALUATED SOME 42,000 INCIDENT
REPORTS, AND ISSUED 805 ALERT BULLETINES AND 28 RESEARCH
REPORTS TO FURTHER IMPROVE SAFETY IN THE AIRWAYS.
** "WE BELIEVE THAT ASRS REPROTS HAVE ELIMIANTED SERIOUS 
HAZARDS AND SAVED LIVES, " STATED WILLIAM REYNARD, PROG. MGR.
AT NASA AMES RES. CENTR. ASRS WAS DESIGNED AND IMPLEMENTED BY
NASA IN 1976 AT THE REQUEST OF THE FAA. NASA WAS TO SERVE AS
"A NEUTRAL THIRD PARTY" IN OPERATING THE SYSTEM. ** ASRS
REPORTS HAVE LED TO REVISION IN BOTH AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL
PROCEDURES AND FAA REGULATIONS. ** ASRS REPORTS SHOWED RANDOM
CONVERSATIONS AND OTHER NON-ESSENTIAL ACTIVITY DURING HEAVY
WORKLOAD ARE DANGEROUSLY DISTRACTIVE. ASRS IS CONFIDENTIAL AND
VOLUNTARY, ALLOWING REPORTING OF HAZARDOUS CONDITIONS THAT
MIGHT NOT OTHERWISE BE REPORTED.
** ENGLAND HAS BEGUN A SIMILAR PROGRAM AND CANADA IS 
DEVELOPING ONE. ** A 40,000 ITEM DATA BASE HAS BECOME A MAJOR
RESOURCE FOR VARIOUS HUMAN FACTORS RESEARCH. ** ASRS GETS
ABOUT 500 INCIDENT REPORTS PER MONTH. THESE ARE SCREENED AND
ANALYZED BY A TEAM OF EXPERIENCED PILOTS AND AIR TRAFFIC
CONTROLLERS. ** DATA ARE USED BY NASA TO CARRY OUT SAFETY
RESEARCH FOR THE FAA; NAT. TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD;
DEFENSE DEPT. ...** ASRS ALSO PRODUCES A MONTHLY SAFETY
BULLETIN, CALLBACK, AVAILABLE TO ANYONE INTERESTED IN AIR
SAFETY. ** K. ATCHISON HQ AND PETER WALLER AMES RES CENTR.,
MOUNTAIN VIEW, CA. ****
***************************
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: VEGA VENUS PROBES
1/21/85 MARKED THE FIRST TIME SIGNALS FROM SOVIET 
VENERA-HALLEY (VEGA) SPACE PROBES WERE RECEIVED AT A NASA 
TRACKING STATION. AS PART OF AN INTERNATIONAL TRACKING NETWORK
ORGANIZED BY THE FRENCH SPC. AGENCY, THE CENTRE NATIONAL
D'ETUDES SPATIALES (CNES), THE 210 FT ANTENNA LOCATED AT
GOLDSTONE, CA., HOMED IN ON THE FAINT SIGNALS FROM TWO
SPACECRAFTS LAUNCED FROM THE USSR IN DEC. AND CURRENTLY HEADED
TO VENUS. ** VEGA-1 & 2 PROBES WILL STUDY VENUS AND HALLEYS'S
COMET. EACH WILL DROP AND INSTRUMENT LADEN BALLOON INTO THE
VENUS ATMOSPHERE IN JUNE '85. BOTH WILL ALSO DROP LANDERS TO
STUDY THE VENUS ATMOSPHERE. THE GRAVITATIONAL FIELD WILL THEN
BEND THE TRAJECTORIES ON A PRECISE COURSE FOR 1986 ENCOUNTERS
WITH THE COMET. ** USING A RADIO ASTRONOMY TECHNIQUE KNOWN AS
VERY LONG BASELINE INTERFEROMETRY (VLBI), THE BALLOONS
VELOCITIES AND VENUS WIND VELOCITY WILL BE MEASURED. **
SCIENTISTS WILL BE STUDYING FLUCTUATIONS IN ATMOSPHERIC
PHENOMENA TO LEARN MORE ABOUT WEATHER CIRCULATION ON VENUS.
VENUS' CLOUD LAYERS ARE BELIEVED TO BE THE DRIVING GEAR OF THE
PLANET'S MULTILAYERED WEATHER. VENUS' CLOUD TOPS CIRCLE THE
PLANET AT THE AMAZING RATE OF ONCE EVERY 4 DAYS (250 MPH),
WHILE THERE IS NEAR CALM ON THE SURFACE. OTHER PHENOMENA
INCLUDE: ENERGY TRANSFER FROM THE LOWER TO UPPER ATMOSPHERE;
CHEMISTRY OF THE CLOUDS; CHEMICAL CYCLES (WHERE THE SULFUR FOR
THE SULFURIC ACID CLOUDS IS CYCLED UP FROM THE SURFACE). **
JIM KUKOWSKI HQ, FRANK BRISTOW JPL AND PETER WALLER AMES RES.
CENTR. *************************
**********************************
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: GRUMMAN FOR CLASS VI COMPUTER
NASA ANNOUNCED THE SELECTION OF GRUMMAN DATA SYSTEMS CORP., 
BETHPAGE, N.Y., FOR NEGOTIATIONS LEADING TO THE AWARD OF A 
CONTRACT FOR A HIGH SPEED (CLASS VI) COMPUTER SYSTEM AT THE 
MARSHALL SPACE FLIGHT CENTER, HUNTSVILLE, ALA. ** THE 
FIRM-FIXED PRICE CONTRACT WILL REQUIRE GRUMMAN TO PROVIDE 
HARDWARE, SOFTWARE, DOCUMENTATION AND SERVICES REQUIRED TO 
DELIVER, INSTALL AND MAINTAIN AN ENGINEERING ANALYSIS AND DATA
SYSTEM. ** THE SYSTEM WILL BE USED FOR SCIENTIFIC AND 
ENGINEERING COMPUTATIONS IN SUPPORT OF MARSHALL'S PROGRAMS 
WITH EMPHASIS ON ANALYSIS OF THERMAL, ELECTRICAL, LOADS AND 
STRUCTURAL DESIGN CHARACTERISTICS THAT INFLUENCE FLIGHT 
VEHICLE AND PAYLOAD PERFORMANCE. ** COST OF THE FIVE YEAR 
CONTRACT, WHICH BEGINS NO LATER THAN AUGUST, 1985, IS 
APPROXIAMTELY $42 MILLION. THE CONTRACT PROVIDES FOR A TOTAL
LEASE PERIOD, WITH RENEWAL IN PERIODS OF ONE TO 12 MONTHS, NOT
TO EXCEED 60 MONTHS. ** OTHER FIRMS SUBMITTING PROPOSALS FOR
THE CONTRACT WERE: FALCON SYSTEMS, INC., BETHESDA, MD., AND
SPERRY CORP., MCLEAN, VA. ** LEON PERRY HQ AND CARL JONES
MARSHALL SPC. FLT. CENTR. ****
***************************
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: NSTL TEST STAND
NASA HAS AWARDED A CONTRACT TO STEARNS CATALYTIC CORP. OF 
DENVER, CO. TO MODIFY A TEST STAND AT THE NATIONAL SPACE 
TECHNOLOGY LAB. IN HANCOCK, MISS. THE MODIFICATION TO THE B-2
STAND WILL GIVE NSTL A THIRD TEST POSITION TO STATIC FIRE
SPACE SHUTTLE MAIN ENGINES INDIVIDUALLY. ** THE VALUE OF THE
FIXED PRICE CONTRACT IS $2,374,800. THE STRUCTURAL MECHANICAL
AND ELECTRICAL MODIFICATIONS WILL BEGIN NO LATER THAN MARCH
1985, AND ARE TO BE COMPLETED IN APPROXIMATELY ONE YR. **
SPACE SHUTTLE MAIN ENGINE TESTING HAS BEEN UNDER WAY AT NSTL
SINCE JUNE 1975. THE A-1 AND A-2 TEST STANDS ARE USED FOR
SINGLE ENGINE TESTING OF FLIGHT AND NON-FLIGHT ENGINES. THE
B-2 TEST POSITION WAS MOST RECENTLY USED TO CERTIFY THE
SHUTTLE'S MAIN PROPULSION SYSTEM IN A SERIES OF THREE ENGINE
"CLUSTER" FIRINGS. THE STAND WAS ORIGINALLY USED IN THE 1960S
TO FLIGHT CERTIFY THE FIRST STAGE OF THE APOLLO/SATURN V SPACE
VEHICLE. THE MODIFICATION DESIGN ALLOWS THE B-2 TEST POSITION
TO BE RETURNED TO THE CLUSTER CONFIGURATION IF NEEDED. ** THE
ADDITIONAL TEST POSITION WILL SUPPORT PROJECTED INCREASES IN
MAIN ENGINE TEST REQUIREMENTS, INCLUDING INCREASED TURBOPUMP
PRODUCTION RATES. ** THE INITIAL USE OF THE B-2 POSITION WILL
BE TO TEST NEW AND OVERHAULED ENGINE TURBOPUMPS USING A
TESTBED ENGINE. ** OTHER BIDDING ON THE CONTRACT WERE:
BENJAMIN F. SHAW CO., WILMINGTON, DEL.; ALGERNON BLAIR
INDUSTRIAL CONTRACTORS, MONTGOMERY, ALA.; INDUSTRIAL
CONTRACTORS INC., IDAHO FALLS, ID., COMBUSTION ENGINEERING
INC., WINDSOR, CONN.; AND S & Q CORP., MORGAN HILL, CALIF. **
C. REDMOND HQ AND MARK HERRING NAT. SPACE TECHNOLOGY LAB,
NSTL, MISS.
***********************************
FROM: MARK FELTON
SUBJ: RUSSIANS TALK FROM SPACE
-> AFTER 237 DAYS ABOARD THE SALYUT 7 SPACE STATION- THE 
LONGEST SPACE FLIGHT IN HISTORY- THE THREE SOVIET COSMONAUTS
HARDLY LOOKED AS THOUGH THEY BELONGED ON EARTH AT ALL. A
REPORTER AT THE LANDING SITE WANTED TO KNOW HOW IT FELT TO BE
HOME. "WE'RE HAPPY TO BACK WITH OUR FRIENDS ON EARTH," CAME
THE ANSWER. "BUT WE ALREADY MISS THE STATION." -> "SPEAKING
FRANKLY, I WAS NOT EXACTLY EAGER TO STEP INTO THE VOID. IT WAS
SCARY. THE EARTH FLOATED BELOW AND THE SPEED OF THE MOVING
STATION WAS VERY NOTICEABLE." RYUMIN. -> "WE ARE DOCKING. WE
CHECK THE SEAL OF THE TRANSFER HATCH. WE TRY TO OPEN THE HATCH
OF THE TRANSPORT VEHICLE, BUT ITS STUCK. UPSIDE DOWN, I BRACE
MYSELF WITH MY FEET AGAINST THE FRAME (YOU CAN DO THIS IN
SPACE) AND I RIP THE HATCH OPEN. WHEN I BOARD THE STATIONS,
THE FIRST THING THAT STRIKES ME IS THAT I DON'T RECOGNIZE IT."
TODAY WE HAVE A TELEVISION SESSION. WE WISHED TOLYA'S DAUGHTER
A HAPPY BIRTHDAY. WE MADE A CAKE OUT OF BREAD. INSTEAD OF 
CANDLES WE USED FELT PENS AND FOR FLAMES WE USED FOIL...WE 
HUNG UP COLORED BALLOONS, RODE AROUND ON THE VACUUM 
CLEANER...-> THE FIRST SHOOTS CAME UP IN OUR GARDEN. WE 
PLANTED BORAGE, RADISHES AND CUCUMBERS... LEBEDEV -> ALL THE
CHARMS OF WEIGHTLESSNESS MADE THEMSELVES APPARENT. OUR FACES
BECAME SWOLLEN AND WERE DIFFICULT TO RECOGNIZE IN A MIRROR. MY
HEAD SWAM AND I HAD A TINGE OF NAUSEA ... ANOTHER PROBLEM
FACING US WAS WE HAD TO LEARN TO WORK TOGETHER AS A TEAM... IN
THE ACTUAL FLIGHT, I WAS AFRAID OF APPENDICITIS...ALSO I WAS
AFRAID OF GETTING A TOOTHACHE... WE ARE BEGINNING TO (REALLY)
SEE THE EARTH... RYUMIN
** FROM DISCOVER MAGAZINE FEB. 1985 **
****************************
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: MATERIALS PROCESSING
NASA ANNOUNCED THE SIGNING OF A MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING
WITH THE GRUMMAN CORP. FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF MATERIALS
PROCESSING IN SPACE RESEARCH. ** "THIS AGREEMENT IS IN KEEPING
WITH PRES. REAGAN'S  REAFFIRMED COMMITMENT TO THE COMMERCIAL
USE OF SPACE AND REPRESNTS  GRUMMAN'S FIRST STEP TOWARDS
BECOMING AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WIT NASA     IN THE COMMERCIAL
DEVELOPMENT OF SPACE," SAID ISAAC T. GILLAM I, ASST.  ADM. FOR
COMMERCIAL PROGRAMS, NASA HQ, WASH., DC. ** GRUMMAN WIL     
PURSUE EXPERIMENTS INVOLVING DIRECTIONAL SOLIDIFICATION OF
GALLUM  ARSENIDE AND OTHER SEMICONDUCTOR MATERIALS AND VARIOUS
METALS AD ALLOYS. THE PROCESS IS APPLICABLE TO THE PRODUCTION
OF SEMICONDUCTOR CRSTALS AND MAGNETS FOR ELECTRICAL MOTORS.
UNDER THIS AGREEMENT, A PRELMINARY DOCUMENT, GRUMMAN'S WORK
WILL FOCUS ON SEMICONDUCTOR MATERIALS.**  DIRECTIONAL
SOLIDIFICATION USES PRECISELY CONTROLLED TEMPERATURS TO  MELT
AND THEN SOLIDIFY A MATERIAL. DURING THE PROCESS, THE
MATEIAL'S       CRYSTALLINE STRUCTURE OR MOLECULAR ARRANGEMENT
IS ALIGNED IN A ASHION THAT SHOULD VIRTUALLY ELIMINATE ANY
IMPERFECTION IN THE COMPOUN. IMPORTANT IMPLICATIONS OF THE
TECHNOLOGY IS THAT "FLAWLESS"     SEMICONDUCTOR CRYSTALS WOULD
YIELD A GREATER QUANTITY AND QUALIY  OF MICROCIRCUIT CHIPS,
LEADING TO HIGHER SPEED ELECTRONIC DEVICS THAT CONSUME LESS
POWER, AND EVEN GREATER MINIATURIZATION. ** I AGREEMENT, BOTH
NASA AND GRUMMAN PLEDGE SUPPORT OF THEIR MUTUAL INTERESTS IN
MATERIALS PROCESSING THROUGH THE EXCHANGE OF INFORATION. 
FURTHER DISCUSSIONS SHOULD LEAD TO AGREEMENT LATER THIS YEAR
REARDING SPECIFIC FLIGHT PLANS FOR GRUMMAN TO CONDUCT ITS
MATERIALS PROCSSING EXPERIMENTS ABOARD THE SPACE SHUTTLE. **
AZEEZALY S. JAFFER HQ **
****************************
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: TRACKING ANTENNA DONATED
NASA ANNOUNCED THAT IT IS DONATING A 26 METER ANTENNA LOCATED
AT THE ORRORAL VALLEY TRACKING STATION IN AUSTRALIA TO THE
AUSTRALIAN UNIVERSITY OF TASMANIA. THE ORRORAL VALLEY STATION
CEASED OPERATIONS IN DECEMBER 1984. ** THE ANTENNA HAD BEEN
USED IN A VARIETY OF NASA AND INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMS INCLUDING
THE SKYLAB PROGRAM, THE APOLLO SOYUZ TEST PROJECT AND THE
SPACE SHUTTLE PROGRAM. **
NASA HAS OFFERED TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE FOR THE DISMANTLING AND
TRANSFER OF THE ANTENNA TO HOBART, TASMANIA, AUSTRALIA.
** THE UNIVERSITY OF TASMANIA'S PHYSICS DEPARTMENT, ONE OF 
AUSTRALIA'S MAJOR CENTERS FOR ASTRONOMY AND ASTROPHYSICS, WILL
USE THE ANTENNA AS PART OF ITS TEACHING AND RESEARCH 
ACTIVITIES. ONE OF THE PLANNED USES FOR THE ANTENNA IS IN 
OPERATION WITH THE AUSTRALIAN TELESCOPE PRESENTLY UNDER 
CONSTRUCTION IN NEW SOUTH WALES. THIS APPLICATION WILL 
DRAMATICALLY IMPROVE THE TELESCOPES PERFORMANCE. ** THE 
ANTENNA ALSO WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR VERY LONG BASELINE 
INTERFEROMETRY IN CONJUNCTION WITH OTHER INSTRUMENTS. THIS IS
A SYSTEM WHICH USES A NUMBER OF SEPARATE ANTENNAS TO CONSTRUCT
A RADIO TELESCOPE WITH A HIGH RESOLUTION CAPABILITY. USING THE
ANTENNA FOR INTERFEROMETRY WILL ASSIST GEODYNAMICS AND
GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH BY OBTAINING MORE ACCURATE MEASUREMENTS
OF THE EARTH'S SURFACE AND WILL CONTRIBUTE TO THE DATA BASE ON
THE AUSTRALIAN CONTINENT. **
NASA MAY USE THE ANTENNA FOR ITS GEODESY, GEODYNAMICS AND 
ASTRONOMY PROJECTS IN THE FUTURE. ** KEN ATCHISON HQ **
********************************
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: FUTURISTIC GAS TURBINE ENGINE
A NEW AND REVOLUTIONARY "CONVERTIBLE" GAS TURBINE ENGINE 
CONCEPT THAT WILL ENABLE FUTURE ROTORCRAFT TO OPERATE EITHER
AS A ROTARY OR FIXED WING AIRCRAFT, CAPABLE OF ATTAINING
SPEEDS EQUIVALLENT TO TODAY'S FAST COMMERCIAL TRANSPORTS, HAS
BEEN DEMONSTRATED SUCCESSFULLY AT NASA'S LEWIS RESEARCH
CENTER, CLEVELAND. ** THIS NEW CONVERTIBLE ENGINE CONCEPT CAN
OPERATE IN EITHER TURBOSHAFT MODE OR TURBOFAN MODE OR IN BOTH
MODES SIMULTANEOUSLY. ** THE DEMONSTRATION IS PART OF A JOINT
PROGRAM BEING CONDUCTED BY NASA AND THE DEFENSE ADVANCED
RESEARCH PROJECTS AGENCY (DARPA). THE ENGINE, A MODIFIED
TF-34, WAS MODIFIED UNDER CONTRACT WITH THE GENERAL ELECTRIC
CO. ** FUTURE X-WING (FOUR BLADED) ROTORCRAFT WITH SUCH AN
ENGINE WILL HAVE SHAFT POWER TO DRIVE ROTOR BLADES ALLOWINT IT
TO TAKE OFF VERTICALLY. AFTER REACHING THE NECESSARY
CONVERSION SPEED, NEAR 200 KNOTS, THE TRANSMISSION OF THE
ROTORCRAFT WILL BE DISENGAGED AND THE ROTOR BLADES WILL BE
LOCKED IN AN "X" CONFIGURATION TO PROVIDE WING LIFT AS A FIXED
WING AIRCRAFT. IN 15 TO 20 SECONDS, THE ENGINE WILL CONVERT
FROM SHAT TO FAN MODE TO POWER THE CRAFT AT SPEEDS NEAR .8
MACH. LANDING WILL BE ACCOMPLISHED AS A ROTORCRAFT AFTER 
REVERSING THE CONVERSION PROCESS. **
THE CONVERSION WAS COMPLETED WITHIN 18 SEC. THE ENGINE 
RESPONDED AS PREDICTED THROUGHOUT THE CONVERSION. ** THESE 
TESTS REPRESENT THE FIRST SUCCESSFUL OPERATION OF A 5000 HP 
CLASS CONVERTIBLE ENGINE IN BOTH FAN AND SHAFT MODES AND THE
FIRST DUAL MODE OPERATION FOR AN ENGINE. THE CONVERTIBLE
ENGINE WILL MAKE POSSIBLE A NEW BREED OF CIVIL AND MILITARY
HIGH SPEED ROTORCRAFT THAT CAN OPERATE FROM HOVER TO TRANSONIC
SPEEDS. ** KEN ATCHISON HQ **
******************************
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: UPPER ATMOSPHERE RESEARCH SATELLITE
NASA AWARDED A $145.8 MILLION CONTRACT TO G.E. CO.'S VALLEY 
FORGE SPACE CENTER, PHILA, FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE UPPER 
ATMOSPHERE RESEARCH SATELLITE (UARS) OBSERVATORY. * THE UARS
WILL CARRY 10 SCIENTIFIC INSTRUMENTS INTO A 373 MI CIRCULAR
ORBIT AFTER DEPLOYMENT FROM THE SPACE SHUTTLE. LAUNCH IS
SCHEDULED FOR OCT. 1989. * WITH REMOTE SENSING INSTRUMENTS
PROVIDING ESSENTIALLY GLOBAL COVERAGE, THE UARS, FOR THE FIRST
TIME, WILL PROVIDE THE DATA NECESSARY TO UNDERSTAND THE
COMPOSITION AND DYNAMICS OF THE UPPER ATMOSPHERE. * AS AN
EXAMPLE, UARS WILL PROVIDE A HERETOFORE UNAVAILABLE INSIGHT
INTO THE NATURE OF THE NATURAL AND HUMAN EFFECTS ON OZONE, A
GASEOUS FORM OF OXYGEN WHICH PROTECTS US FROM THE HARMFUL UV
RAYS OF THE SUN. OZONE IS FOUND IN THE STRATOSPHERE, A
DELICATE LAYER OF THE ATMOSPHERE SURROUNDING THE EARTH AT A
DISTANCE OF FROM 9-31 MI. * UNDER THE TERMS OF THE CONTRACT,
THE VALLEY FORGE SPACE CENTER WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR: DESIGN
OF THE OBSERVATORY SYSTEM; DESIGN AND FABRICATION OF AN
INSTRUMENT MODULE COMPATIBLE WITH THE NASA STANDARD
MULTIMISSION MODULAR SPACECRAFT (MMS); INTEGRATION OF THE
INSTRUMENT MODULE WITH THE MMS AND THE FLIGHT INSTRUMENTS;
OVERALL ENVIRONMENTAL TESTING OF THE OBSERVATORY SYSTEM;
INTEGRATION OF THE OBSERVATORY INTO THE SPACE SHUTTLE; POST 
LAUNCH FLIGHT OPERATIONS SUPPORT.. THE CONTRACT IS OF THE COST
PLUS AWARD FEE TYPE. ALL WORK REQUIRED UNDER THE CONTRACT WILL
BE PERFORMED AT THE VALLEY FORGE SPACE CENTER IN PHILADELPHIA.
* NASA GODDARD SPC FLT CENTR WILL PROVIDE PROJECT
MANAGEMENT... * J.KUKOWSKI HQ & CARTER DOVE GODDARD SPC FLT
CENTR. ***
*******************************
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: X-RAY ASTROPHYSICS FACILITY
NASA ANNOUNCED THE SELECTION OF SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATIONS TO
BE IMPLEMENTED ON THE PROPOSED ADVANCED X-RAY ASTROPHYSICS
FACILITY (AXAF). * AXAF WILL BE A LONG LIVED X-RAY OBSERVATORY
THAT WILL OPERATE IN LOW EARTH ORBIT FOR AT LEAST 15 YEARS.
THE BASIC OBSERVATORY CONSISTS OF A 1.2 METER DIAM, 10-M FOCAL
LTH X-RAY TELESCOPE HOUSE WITHIN A SPACECRAFT CARRYING AN
ARRAY OF SELECTED INSTRUMENTS AND PROVIDING POWER, PRECISE
POINTING AND DATA TRANSMISSION. AXAF WILL MAKE DETAILED
OBSERVATIONS OF THE X-RAY EMISSIONS FROM COSMIC SOURCES
RANGING FROM NEARBY STARS TO DISTANT QUASARS. * CONSTRUCTION
OF AXAF COULD BEGIN AS EARLY AS 1987-8 WITH LAUNCH APPROX 5
YRS LATER. IN ORBIT, AXAF WILL JOIN THE HUBBLE SPACE
TELESCOPE, TO BE LAUNCHED IN 1986 AND THE GAMMA RAY
OBSERVATORY LAUNCH IN '88. THESE PLUS THE LATER LAUNCH OF THE
SPACE INFRARED TELESCOPE FACILITY, WILL PROVIDE SIMULTANEOUS
OBSERVATIONS OF COSMIC SOURCES OVER INFRARED, VISABLE, UV,
X-RAY AND GAMMA RAY. *
INVESTIGATOR-> DR.G.GARMIRE PENN ST. U. CHARGED COUPLED DEVICE
IMAGING SPECTROSCOPY. DR.S.MURRAY SMITHSONIAN ASTROPHYSICAL
OBSERVATORY HIGH RESOLUTION CAMERA DR.S.HOLT GODDARD SFC X-RAY
SPECTROSCOPY INVESTIGATION FOR AXAF DR.C.CANIZARES MIT HIGH
RESOLUTION X-RAY SPECTROSCOPY DR.A. BRINKMAN U.OF UTRECHT,
NETHERLANDS HIGH THROUGHPUT TRANSMISSION GRATING FOR COSMIC
X-RAY SPECTROSCOPY.. DR.R.GIACCONI SPACE TELESCOPE SCI INST
ADVANCE X-RAY DR.J.LINSKY NBS CORONAL STRUCTURE OF COOL
STARS... DR.R.MUSHOTZKY, GSFC MASS OF GALAXIES... DR.A.WILSON
U.OF MD. RADIO JETS AND NARROW LINE REGIONS ... DR.A.FABIAN
CAMBRIDGE COOLING FLOWS... * L.PERRY HQ **
*******************************************
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: SUPERCOMPUTER
NASA'S AMES RES. CENTR. WILL HOST A GRND BREAKING CEREMONY 
MARCH 14 FOR THE NUMERICAL AERODYNAMICS SIMULATION (NAS) 
FACILLITY BLDG., TO HOUSE THE WORLD'S MOST POWERFUL 
SUPERCOMPUTER SYSTEM. * HIGH SPEED SUPER COMPUTERS WILL BE 
USED TO SOLVE COMPLEX AERODYNAMICS EQUATIONS - FLUID PHYSICS
AND LARGE SCALE AERODYNAMIC FLOWS ASSOCIATED WITH AIRCRAFT
FLYING IN THE EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE. THE NAS WILL REDUCE TIME AND
COST FOR DEVELOPING NEW AIRCRAFTS. *
ANOTHER IMPORTANT GOAL IS TO MAKE THE SUPERCOMPUTER NETWORK 
AVAILABLE TO REMOTE USERS NATIONWIDE. OFF SITE SCIENTISTS WILL
GAIN ACCESS TO THE SYSTEM BY SATELLITE. OTHER RESEARCH TO BE
SUPPORTED BY NAS INCLUDES COMPUTATIONAL MATERIALS AND 
STRUCTURES, WEATHER PREDICTIONS, COMPUTATIONAL CHEMISTRY, 
GENETIC ENGINEERING AND COMPUTATIONAL ASTROPHYSICS. * CRAY 
RESEARCH'S CRAY 2 SUPERCOMPUTERS, WITH AN EXPECTED OPERATING
SPEED OF 250 MILLION CALCULATIONS PER SECOND, IS ONE OF THE
FASTEST COMPUTERS IN THE WORLD AND WILL BE THE HEART OF THE
INITIAL NAS NETWORK EXPECTED TO BE OPERATIONAL IN 1986. FASTER
SUPERCOMPUTERS WILL BE INCORPORATED AS THEY BECOME AVAILABLE.
* NAS IS PLANNED TO CREATE A PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN PEOPLE AND
MACHINES THAT WILL ADVANCE COMPUTER SIMULATION. * THE 90,500
ARCHITECTS, SAN FRANCISCO. THE CONTRACTOR IS PERINI CO., SAN
FRANCISCO. ** KEN ATCHISON HQ AND PETER WALLER/ ROBERTA
FRIEDMAN AMES RESEACH CENTER, MOUNTAIN VIEW, CALIFORNIA.
******************:
  FROM: CRASH!USIIDEN!MARKF@NOSC
  OR CONTACT ON INTERCOMEX BULLETIN BOARD (303)-3671935 DENVER
 

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #172
*******************

29-May-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #173    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                     $Volume 5 : Issue 173

Today's Topics:
			       Mini-series
		       Progress of Shuttle Atlantis
			GENERAL SPACE INFORMATION
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 28 May 1985 08:29:28-EDT
From: rachiele@NADC
To: space-enthusiasts@mit-mc
Subject: Mini-series


I thought it should have been called "spice". -:)
       Jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 May 85 19:17 PDT
From: TERRY%LAJ.SAINET.MFENET@LLL-MFE.ARPA
Subject: Progress of Shuttle Atlantis
To: SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS@MIT-MC.ARPA



A previous message said that Discovery was being moved to the VAB and
Atlantis was being moved to the OFP in preparation for its maiden flight.
Now, VAB stands for Vertical Assembly Building, unless the acronym has
changed since I knew it last; but I never heard of OFP before.  Can
anyone explain what it is?  AdTHANKSvance.

------------------------------

From: <crash!usiiden!markf@Nosc>
Date: Tue, 28 May 85 21:28:19 PDT
To: crash!noscvax!space@mit-mc
Subject: GENERAL SPACE INFORMATION

The following are reports from the Intercomex Bulletin
Board (303)-367-1935 * Reports are edited to provide
easier computer readability, but content integrity is
maintained.
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: SUPERCOMPUTER PLANNED
NASA'S AMES RES. CENTR. WILL HOST A GRND BREAKING CEREMONY
MARCH 14 FOR THE NUMERICAL AERODYNAMICS SIMULATION (NAS)
FACILITY BLDG., TO HOUSE THE WORLD'S MOST POWERFUL
SUPERCOMPUTER SYSTEM. * HIGH SPEED SUPER COMPUTERS WILL BE
USED TO SOLVE COMPLEX AERODYNAMICS EQUATIONS - FLUID PHYSIC S
AND LARGE SCALE AERODYNAMIC FLOWS ASSOCIATED WITH AIRCRAFT
FLYING IN THE EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE. THE NAS WILL REDUCE TIME  AND
COST FOR DEVELOPING NEW AIRCRAFTS. *
ANOTHER IMPORTANT GOAL IS TO MAKE THE SUPERCOMPUTER NETWORK  
AVAILABLE TO REMOTE USERS NATIONWIDE. OFF SITE SCIENTISTS W ILL
GAIN ACCESS TO THE SYSTEM BY SATELLITE. OTHER RESEARCH TO B E
SUPPORTED BY NAS INCLUDES COMPUTATIONAL MATERIALS AND
STRUCTURES, WEATHER PREDICTIONS, COMPUTATIONAL CHEMISTRY,
GENETIC ENGINEERING AND COMPUTATIONAL ASTROPHYSICS. * CRAY
RESEARCH'S CRAY 2 SUPERCOMPUTERS, WITH AN EXPECTED OPERATIN G
SPEED OF 250 MILLION CALCULATIONS PER SECOND, IS ONE OF THE
FASTEST COMPUTERS IN THE WORLD AND WILL BE THE HEART OF THE
INITIAL NAS NETWORK EXPECTED TO BE OPERATIONAL IN 1986. FAS TER
SUPERCOMPUTERS WILL BE INCORPORATED AS THEY BECOME AVAILABL E.
* NAS IS PLANNED TO CREATE A PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN PEOPLE AND
MACHINES THAT WILL ADVANCE COMPUTER SIMULATION. * THE 90,50 0
SQ FT CONCRETE NAS BUILDING WAS DESIGNED BY HUNT AND CO.,
ARCHITECTS, SAN FRANCISCO. THE CONTRACTOR IS PERINI CO., SA N
FRANCISCO. ** KEN ATCHISON HQ AND PETER WALLER/ ROBERTA
FRIEDMAN AMES RESEACH CENTER, MOUNTAIN VIEW, CALIFORNIA.
******************:
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: SPACE STATION
NASA SELECTED 6 INDUSTRY TEAMS FOR NEGOTIATIONS LEADING TO
FIXED PRICE CONTRACTS FOR DEFINITION & PRELIMINARY DESIGN O F
ELEMENTS OF A PERMANENTLY MANNED SPACE STATION TO BE
OPERATIONAL IN MID 1990'S. * NASA CENTERS SELECTED ARE:
=> MARSHALL SFC - HUNTSVILLE, ALA; BOEING AEROSPACE, SEATTL E
AND MARTIN MARRIETTA, DENVER => GODDARD SFC, GREENBELT, MD. ;
RCA ASTRO ELECTRONICS, PRINCETON, N.J.; AND GE, SPACE SYSTE M
DIV, PHILA, PA => LEWIS RESEARCH CNTR, CLEVE, OHIO; ROCKWEL L
INTL, ROCKETDYNE DIV., CANOGA PARK, CALIF; AND TRW FED. SYS .
DIV., REDONDO BEACH, CALIF. * IN ADDITION ARE NEGOTIATIONS
WITH LOCKHEED MISSILES & SPACE;
MCDONNELL DOUGLAS ASTRONAUTICS & ROCKWELL INTL FOR WORK TO  BE
PERFORMED UNDER JOHNSON SPC CENTER, HOUSTON. * APPROX CONTR ACT
VALUES IM MILLIONS..$24 MARSHALL; $27 JOHNSON;
$10 GODDARD; $6 LEWIS. * WORK TO INCLUDE DEFINITION AND
PRELIMINARY DESIGN: MARSHALL- PRESSURIZED "COMMON MODULES"  FOR
USE AS LABS, LIVING AREAS AND LOGISTIC TRANSPORT;
ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROL AND PROPULSIVE SYSTEMS;
ORBITAL MANEUVERING AND TRANSPORT... JOHNSON- STRUCTURAL
FRAMEWORK TO WHICH ELEMENTS OF THE STATION WILL BE ATTATCHE D;
STATION TO SHUTTLE INTERFACE; MECHANISMS SUCH AS REMOTE
MANIPULATOR; ATTITUDE, THERMAL CONTROL, COMMUNICATIONS, DAT A
MANAGEMENT; SLEEPING QUARTERS, WARD ROOM AND GALLEY;
EXTRAVEHICULAR ACTIVITY. LEWIS-
ELECTRICAL, POWER GENERATION, CONDITIONING AND STORAGE. *
OVERALL RESPONSIBILITY WILL BE NASA JOHNSON SPACE CENTER. *
STATION PLAN- LOW EARTH ORBIT, ABOUT 300 MI HIGH, INCLINATI ON
28.5 DEG, 75 KW POWER, SUPPORTING A CREW OF 6-8. * LAUNCH A ND
SUBSEQUENT TRANSPORTATION PROVIDED BY THE SPACE SHUTTLE. *
INTERNATIONAL TO INCLUDE THE EUROPEAN SPACE AGENCY, CANADA  AND
JAPAN. ** BILL O'DONNELL HQ
*******************************************
  from Mark Felton
*******************************************
CRASH!USIIDEN!MARKF@NOSC
**************

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #173
*******************

30-May-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #174    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 174

Today's Topics:
			      Re: more NERVA
		    How to Receive NASA Ed. Pub. #197
			 SPACE Digest V5 #169    
			       NASA funding
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 29 May 85 10:41:36 EDT (Wednesday)
From: Heiny.henr@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: more NERVA
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA, Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS.ARPA
cc: Heiny.henr@Xerox.ARPA

Um, SSME? SEPS?  Not all of us can speak fluent acronym.  Could you
enlighten me as to what these mean?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 May 85 05:54:51 PDT
From: Kit Weinrichter <GQ.KIT@Forsythe>
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject:  How to Receive NASA Ed. Pub. #197

Jack Hagerty asked how he could get a copy of NASA's Educational
Publication #197. All you have to do is call NASA Audio Visual at
(415) 694-6270 and ask them to send you this publication. They told
me that it would take probably 2 weeks.
Kit

To:  SPACE@MIT-MC

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 May 1985  17:08 EDT
From: MINSKY%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA
To:   Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Cc:   SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject: SPACE Digest V5 #169    

The usual idea for a laser-launcher is somehow to use the sunlight
from a nearby star to power the system, so the energy cost is zero,
and the hardware cost is the one that matters.

------------------------------

Date: 29 May 85 23:27:01 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: NASA funding
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

The 50% figure I quoted earlier for the aeronautics portion of NASA's budget
was quoted from a lecture Bonnie Dunbar (Astronaut) gave in this area awhile
back. The piechart slide was NASA made, so if this is not the case, then
there was some misrepresentation or error in the creation of the original
slide by the NASA PR dept.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #174
*******************

31-May-85  0352	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #175    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 175

Today's Topics:
			 Matter/Antimatter drive
		       Re:  Matter/Antimatter drive
		Strange launch, and stranger announcements
			    Re: Money to burn
			    ultralight probes
			  Re: ultralight probes
		      Re: cheap interstellar probes
		       Throwing mass away in orbit
			  Re: ultralight probes
			    Re: Money to burn
			 Re: Interstellar probes
			  Landings Set For EAFB
		      Re: cheap interstellar probes
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu 30 May 85 10:49:20-EDT
From: Anthony J. Courtemanche <AC%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject: Matter/Antimatter drive
To: space-enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Reply-To: to ac%mit-oz@mit-mc.arpa

On the last episode of PBS's Space Flight last night, some futurist
said that in order to make a resonable flight to another star, we
would need the technology for a matter/anitmatter drive, which I think
he indicated would be available within the next 100 to 200 years.
Could someone who understands particle physics please explain what the
idea is behind a matter/antimatter drive.  Specifically, what does it
take to make the antimatter and how would one turn the energy from a
matter/anitmatter explosion into thrust?

Do you need Scotty to channel the power through Dilithium crystals?

--Anthony J. Courtemanche
ac%mit-oz@mit-mc.arpa

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 85 10:19:42 pdt
From: Rick McGeer <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
To: AC%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Re:  Matter/Antimatter drive
Cc: space@mit-mc.ARPA

	A collision of a particle with its antiparticle (say an electron with
a positron) produces two photons, with energy equal to the relativistic
kinetic energy of the particles, travelling on vectors normal to the vectors
of the particles.

	Thrust comes from the light pressure of the photons.

	As for manufacturing antimatter, we do it *now*.  Positron Emission
Tomography (PET) works by shooting positrons and electrons into the material
you want to photograph.

						Rick.

------------------------------

From: Dave Gehrt <dave@RIACS.ARPA>
Date: 30 May 1985 1027-PDT (Thursday)
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Strange launch, and stranger announcements

I was at the Riverside Telescope Makers Conference at Big Bear (in the
mountains above San Bernardino, CA) over the Memorial Day weekend, and
Saturday evening witnessed a fairly spectacular rocket multiple launch
from some location to the west.  There were about 1300 witnesses at
this one location, so I am reasonably confident that many telescopes
ended up being trained on this display.  What I observed was what
appeared to be two vehicles launched just at dusk, about 1 minute
apart.  I followed the vehicles with the naked eye at first.  I then
switched to telescopic observation of the first vehicle launched and
followed it until it appeared as a bright pinpoint of light headed in a
southerly direction, whereupon I lost it behind a tree. 	 Other observers
said that the second vehicle staged, and then disappeared (range safety
problem?).

In the following days announcements were made that (a) there was no
launch (b) it was a tactical missle launch (singular).  Also, the
origin was variously attributed to VAFB, and Pt. Mugu.  Does anyone
know what we all saw?  I have to say that it was the most beautiful
fireworks display I have ever witnessed.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!hplabs!pesnta!lsuc!utcs!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Money to burn
Date: 26 May 85 00:22:29 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

> PS "It can't be done" is not an acceptable answer!!!

It is probably the only answer right now!  The BIS Daedalus study concluded
that a less-demanding mission (15% of c rather than 20%, with encounter
taking place at full interstellar velocity rather than after deceleration
to 5% of c) was possible given the following improvements on today's
technology:

	1. He3-D fusion engine.
	2. Propellant collection from the atmosphere of Jupiter (there
		is no other good source of He3!)
	3. Advanced self-maintaining computers with software that could
		plan and conduct the final encounter without any help from
		humans.

The Daedalus probe weighed something like 40000 tons at launch, by the way.
You won't fit that in one shuttle load!

More specifically...

> 	1. Assume only near term technology and assets. For example, no
> space station. You are allowed two shuttle payloads if necessary - doing
> it in one gets bonus points.

The major problem, as you point out elsewhere, is propulsion.  With the
current and foreseeable technology, this means mass... lots of it.  The
BIS study, assuming better-than-current technology, still had a total-to-
payload mass ratio of about 100:1.  Two shuttle payloads just will not
hack it to get a substantial payload to the stars.  Note that one shuttle
payload is just sufficient to get the Galileo probe to Jupiter!

>	2. Must be ready to launch within 5 years.

NASA cannot launch *any* major mission that quickly.  NASA knew how to
launch a space station nearly 20 years ago; the Skylab technology is
that old.  The ETA for the space station was ten years, and is already
slipping further into the future.  Personally I think a space station
could be launched almost at once if the project was headed by some nasty
person who was authorized to bypass NASA bureaucracy and normal purchasing
procedures, with a firm objective of getting hardware flying ASAP rather
than maximum sophistication and gosh-wow factor, but one might as well
wish for wings.

>	3. Assume a target star 20 light years away.

The BIS assumed Barnard's Star, 8 LY away, and found it hard.

> 	4. Intial data must be received from target star system within 100
> years.

At 20 LY, this gives 20% of c.  The BIS set this as their original goal,
but found it so hard that they slipped the specs to 15%.  More significant
was their rationale for the original speed:  getting results within 40
years provides continuity within a human lifetime, because people who were
young staff members at launch time get to see the results come in.  This
is psychologically important to both the staff and the people who vote on
the funding.

> An interesting question is what collection strategy to use. You could
> adopt a cometary orbit or try to look for planetary body etc. Minimum
> requirement is a fly-through at less then .05C mean.

The propulsion requirements are so fierce that even the BIS very quickly
opted for an undecelerated flyby as the only feasible mission.

> Remember that your
> communications lines have a 40 year turnaround. 

This means that for all practical purposes the mission must be 100%
automatic; there is no realistic prospect of ground control.  We are not
really up to that unless you are willing to be quite unfussy about the
nature of the flyby.

Don't forget that communication over distances of 20 LY is very hard.
You will need plenty of power, which is a problem in itself.  There is
*no* self-contained power source now existing that will give useful
output after 100 years.

> 	5. Maximum cost will be 1 billion in current dollars. It may be
> competing in Congress with a submarine base in Arizona so the cheaper
> the better.

NASA probably cannot launch anything anywhere near so ambitious for this
kind of money.  The Viking mission cost over $1e9, as I recall, and that
was a couple of orders of magnitude less fancy.  (It was also paid for
in early-70's dollars.)  Again, I suspect serious cost reductions if
radically different management approaches were adopted, but the vastly
greater mission complexity more than cancels those gains.

> 	6. Worship the KISS principle. This thing has to go a long way on
> it own.

Probably too long a way.  Self-repair is almost certainly needed, and
that kills simplicity right off the bat.  Remember that NASA cannot spend
lots of money on a mission that has a good chance of failing; they can't
bet unless it's nearly a sure thing, politics being what they are.  If
one were willing to accept a high chance of failure (i.e. launch several
to have a reasonable chance of useful return), I suspect one could dispense
with self-repair, given limited objectives for encounter observations.
The odds of keeping a fusion rocket engine, or the equivalent, operational
for that long without on-board maintenance would also seem minimal, so
deceleration is out for yet another reason.  Some of the stiffest life
requirements in the world are those of the phone companies; they only
specify a 40-year life, and this assumes human maintenance.



Sorry to be so negative, but it really is a fiercely hard problem.  The
BIS was optimistic about our ability to solve it (without some of the
constraints you impose) before too long.  I am actually more optimistic
than they were, because the propulsion assumptions they made are now
sounding a bit conservative in some ways.  For example, Robert Forward
says that antimatter propulsion requires no serious breakthroughs and
could be a cost-effective alternative to H2-O2 for in-space propulsion
(note that lifting quantities of H2-O2 from the ground is expensive)
very soon.  But I don't think "5 years" and "2 shuttle payloads" are
viable constraints right now.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!hplabs!pesnta!lsuc!utcs!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: ultralight probes
Date: 26 May 85 01:06:15 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In response to Jim Houser's query for ideas about a near-term interstellar
probe (which I've unfortunately had to shoot down in a separate article)...
Here is another interesting notion which is a bit closer to reality, and
which could use some ideas.

The highest-performing solar sails that we know how to build are Eric
Drexler's aluminum sails.  His "baseline" design is 10 km across and has
high performance with a 20-ton payload.  Building a 10-km object in space
(Drexler sails are rigid and cannot be folded for launch) is a bit on the
ambitious side just yet, especially since air-drag problems may rule out
construction in the very low orbits that give maximum shuttle payload.

Consider a scaled-down version:  100 m across, hauling a payload of 2 kg.
Obviously this cannot be manned, but it could still be very useful for
comet rendezvous missions, surveying the asteriod belt for resources, etc.
The big question is, can we build a complete control and communications
system, with useful instruments, within 2 kg??  Some weight growth is
acceptable, although it can't be an order of magnitude or performance
will suffer.  (The 100-m sail weighs only 2 kg itself, so a 20-kg load
would be a huge increase in total vehicle mass.)  Long life and near-total
absence of moving parts are major virtues, since this thing will spend a
long time in space.  (Some of this might even be relevant to Houser's
proposal...)

Power and communications will obviously be major issues.  Solar cells are
the obvious choice for power, but very lightweight construction	will be
vital.  Can we get away with a rigidly-mounted solar array, bearing in
mind that the sail constrains the sun angle substantially?  Communications
will probably require a steerable antenna, alas.  Would optical communication
be better?

Basic control will probably be by tiny winches on the sail shrouds, which
will have the net effect of shifting the payload's position with respect
to the sail.  Is this sufficient?  Note that the sail spins slowly to
maintain its rigidity; can clever design of communications, guidance
sensors, and instrumentation avoid the need for a despun platform?  If
not, perhaps the spinning and despun sections should have independent
solar arrays and computer systems, communicating optically, to avoid the
reliability problems of carrying power through rotating bearings.

Substantial onboard computing is needed, since this vehicle is "under
power" at all times, albeit at very low acceleration.  Speed-of-light
lags impose the usual limitations on human intervention.  Close approaches
to asteroids would be particular tricky.  Can we get radiation-resistant
chips with enough computing power and sufficiently-low current drain?

What sort of instrumentation would be practical?  Imaging is obviously
a high priority.  We could use the sail spin for one dimension of scan,
although this will mean slow imaging because the sail spin isn't quick.
Limited communications power may impose serious constraints on imaging
data rates anyway.  How much steerability do we need for useful imaging?
Filter wheels are troublesome; can we get away with multiple image
sensors with fixed filters?  If we do use an ordinary 2-dimensional
imaging sensor, what about a pattern of filter stripes across the image?

Obviously navigation wants a sun sensor; can the imaging system be used
for this?  If not, can it at least be used for the rest of the guidance
requirements?  Note that real-time attitude control requires on-board
interpretation of sensor data.

Can we measure micrometeoroid density by measuring perforations of the
sail?  The resulting "collecting area" is orders of magnitude larger
than anything we can do with a separate sensor, but scanning it for
small perforations isn't trivial.  If we use optical communications via
solid-state laser, could the communications system's laser and receiver
be used to scan the sail?

Solid-state radiation sensors are an obvious possibility.  How detailed
can we make their data return within severe weight constraints?  Can we
get enough sensitivity for things like gamma-ray spectrometry, to examine
asteroids and comets for volatiles?

Ideas welcome...
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!rochester!sher
From: rochester!sher (David Sher)
Subject: Re: ultralight probes
Date: 27 May 85 14:17:05 GMT
Reply-To: sher@rochester.UUCP (David Sher)
Organization: U. of Rochester, CS Dept.
Keywords: light sail photoelectric
Summary: Building a lightsail out of photo electric material

In response to the article on the possibility an ultra-light space probe
moved by a light sail, has anyone considered the possibility of building
a lightsail out of photo-electric material?  I know that thin film
processes are already well advanced (as shown by the common light powered
pocket calculator).  I suspect that a light-sail can be made out of
anything (except neutronium :-) as long as its thin.  This would solve the
problem of a power source for the probe, a few thousand square meters is
probably sufficient power collection area for most purposes.  It might
just be possible to use the ion bombardment as a power source since that
should cause a charge differential between a lighted and shaded object in
space.  The main problem would be grounding and the behavior of circuitry
in highly charged environments.  The max efficiency loss due to
photoelectric effect on a light sail is 50%.  Enuf thoughts, any comments?

-David

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!ihuxl!dcn
From: ihuxl!dcn (Dave Newkirk)
Subject: Re: cheap interstellar probes
Date: 28 May 85 12:49:40 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

> From: redford%avoid.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (John Redford)
> 
> Hmmm, what could we do to make a cheap interstellar probe?  The parameters
> proposed were that the probe has to report back within a hundred years 
> from a star no more than 20 light years away.  That seems a long way away.
...
> John Redford
> DEC-Hudson

A cheaper way might be a simple ion drive.  A mix of solar and nuclear power
to provide electricity, and a cheap fuel source that can be ionized.
It's not a big thrust, but it can be maintained for long periods, building
up impressive speeds.

I also think you gave up too soon on the laser-driven light sails.
For more ideas on this, see Robert Forward's new book "Dragonfly".
Remember, solar energy is cheap and plentiful in the inner solar system.
-- 
				Dave Newkirk, ihnp4!ihuxl!dcn

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-dvinci!fisher
From: fisher@dvinci.DEC
Subject: Throwing mass away in orbit
Date: 28 May 85 15:34:35 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network

<>

Regarding the question of throwing mass and meeting again in one orbit:

Remember that if you change velocity at a certain point in your orbit, that
changes the height of your orbit the most at the opposite side, and the least
at the point where you changed velocity.  Example:  If you fire a rocket at
perigee, it affects your apogee, but your perigee remains the same.  That means
that yes, the astronaut would meet the ORBIT of the mass s/he threw in one
orbital period, but the mass would not necessarily be there at the same time.
It would probably be a LONG time before both the time and place were the same
for both the mass and the astronaut.

Burns


	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!dartvax!chuck
From: dartvax!chuck (Chuck Simmons)
Subject: Re: ultralight probes
Date: 29 May 85 02:57:37 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

> In response to the article on the possibility an ultra-light space probe moved
> by a light sail, has anyone considerred the possibility of building
> a lightsail out of photo-electric material?  I know that thin film
> processes are already well advanced (as shown by the common light
> powered pocket calculator).  I suspect that a light-sail can be made
> out of anything (except neutronium :-) as long as its thin.  

I imagine that aluminum has three big advantages:  (1) aluminum atoms are
very light; (2) aluminum is highly reflective; (3) it is relatively easy
to make relatively thin (and therefore light) sheets of aluminum.

One approach that interests me:  would it be possible to "grow your own"?
Would it be possible to design a "fabric" consisting of carbon or silicon 
atoms with various other kinds of atoms in between.  The result would be 
a molecule (in much the same way that a polymer is a molecule, except in 
two dimensions) a few atoms thick.  A well-designed fabric might contain
many itty-bitty holes, thus decreasing the density even further.

*sigh*  Maybe if I don't think about the problem of making a square sheet
of this fabric measuring a kilometer on a side, it will go away.

-- Chuck

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!ames!eugene
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Re: Money to burn
Date: 30 May 85 01:08:20 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

> > Assume for a moment that we were not in bugetary hard times and could
> > afford an attack of conspicuous consumption. Could a reasonable
> > interstellar
> > one-way unmanned probe mission be designed which would give some legitimate

Unmanned missions with the exception of Voyager have not caught the
imaginations of men.  Voyager did so only because of the timing of events such
as Cosmos, KCET's telecast Voyager coverage, and the diversity of the photos
returned by Voyager.  You could probably assemble a set of questions like "what
planets have we landed" which would measure the impact of these missions and
find lots of confusion.  Another problem with earlier missions was that many
photos returned like Mariner Mercury, early Mars pictures, and so on had
cratered surfaces looking like the moon.  This is hard to excite the brain.
"If you've seen one moon-like planet, you've seen them all?"

> > 	2. Must be ready to launch within 5 years.
> 
> Not a prayer.  Almost nothing gets launched within 5 years of conception, 
> even very
> straightforward build-another-one-just-like-the-last one spacecraft.  The
> only exception to this, I believe, are some communication satellites.

I personally think this is a sad bit of NASA.  It would be nice to be able
to respond to short lived phenomena such as cometary encounters. (hint, hint)

> > 	3. Assume a target star 20 light years away.
> > 
> > 	4. Intial data must be received from target star system within 100
> > years. An interesting question is what collection strategy to use. You
> > could
> > adopt a cometary orbit or try to look for planetary body etc. Minimum
> > requirement is a fly-through at less then .05C mean. Remember that your
> > communications lines have a 40 year turnaround. May be allowed a 10%
> > extension on time limit given a high grade justification.
> > 
> > 	5. Maximum cost will be 1 billion in current dollars. It may be
> > competing in Congress with a submarine base in Arizona so the cheaper
> > the better.
> 
> No chance whatsoever.  The shuttle launches will cost you $140 million alone,
> and most of your cost will be engineering salaries for design and
> construction at $60 - 100 an hour.

Again, I think a sad commentary.  Space flight is expensive in terms of
engineering resources.  It might be useful if we had a class of expendable
special purpose boosters.

> > 	6. Worship the KISS principle. This thing has to go a long way on
> > it own.
> 
> Don't forget a lot of redundancy.

Important.  You cannot stepwise refine hardware once it's in flight.

I thought this question was interesting from the stand point of materials
science and autonomous vehicles.  We really don't know how well our earthly
materials will withstand the rigors of deep space.  We have learned a lot
from the last two pairs of deep space missions.  How would you handle a
craft hit by an astroid before leaving the solar system?  Would you give up
or have the robot try and repair itself.  Sounds expensive. Lots of
interesting, fun questions (sorry, can't answer some for $1G).  Wish I had
more time.

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,decwrl,allegra}!ames!aurora!eugene
  @ames-vmsb.ARPA:emiya@jup.DECNET

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!decwrl!greipa!pesnta!lsuc!utcs!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Interstellar probes
Date: 27 May 85 16:28:26 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

As somebody (Pournelle?) once observed:

	1. Alpha Centauri, the nearest star, is 4.3 LY away.
	2. Assuming 0.99999c propulsion and radio/laser data return, the
		round-trip time is thus 8.6 years.
	3. The maximum US presidential term is 8 years.
	4. 8 < 8.6, so no starprobes.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Landings Set For EAFB
Date: 29 May 85 12:15:18 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

NASA said yesterday that the next four or five shuttle
missions will land at EAFB instead of KSC.  While the
agency would prefer a landing at KSC, to save the time
and money of ferrying the shuttle back from California,
it wants to give the shuttles a wide margin of error
until the April brake problem with the Discovery has
been found and corrected.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!mgnetp!dicomed!mecc!sewilco
From: mecc!sewilco (Scot E. Wilcoxon)
Subject: Re: cheap interstellar probes
Date: 28 May 85 16:44:58 GMT
Organization: MN Ed Comp Corp, St Paul

In <1946@mordor.UUCP> redford%avoid.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (John Redford) writes:
> ...[after showing well how he calculated it]...
>For every kilogram of sail, we must apply 6 million watts for 46 years.
>That works out to 2.6 billion kW-hrs of energy per kilogram of sail, or
>(at seven cents per kilowatt-hour) 180 million dollars worth of energy
>per kg.

Maybe we need a cheaper laser.  Or lasers..several lower power ones would
have great maintenance advantages.  Could always put a bank of lasers on a
"Solar Power Satellite" (is SPS a recognized acronym?), but it would be
nice to avoid the (photon-electron-photon) middleman.

BTW, I assume these lasers would be in space.  I don't care to have that
much power going through the atmosphere we have to breathe.  I'd also feel
a bit safer if Earth's atmosphere were opaque to the laser's frequency.

If a gas laser can be triggered by photons, maybe a group of mirrors
can focus enough sunlight on the lasers.

There's also the idea (wish I remembered the source) of using mirrors to
focus sunlight on the sail.  But since non-coherent light cannot be
concentrated over long distances, this is only useful relatively near
the sun.  So to achieve significant acceleration, several (maybe even a
ring) of mirrors are put around the initial circular orbit of the sail.
As the sail starts getting too far from one mirror it is near enough to
the next one for it to focus on the sail.  When mirrors are not
focusing on the sail, they are used as sails to accelerate nearer to the
(ever expanding) orbit of the target sail.  After the target sail uses
a planet to direct itself onto the final course, lasers can be used to
continue boost.  If the mirrors can't be used to drive the lasers,
they'll find some other use..SPS reflectors, asteroid smelter, Pluto
probe...

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #175
*******************

01-Jun-85  0357	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #176    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 176

Today's Topics:
			   interstellar probes
	      Re: Strange launch, and stranger announcements
			 Matter-Antimatter Drive
				Mars rumor
				  speed
	     Light-weight, omni-directional communications...
	 Stuck in the center of the space station problem - HELP
	       Re: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
			    Re: Money to burn
			    Re: Money to burn
				Re: speed
			   New Steering System
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 31 May 1985 08:35-PDT
From: king@Kestrel.ARPA
Subject: interstellar probes
To: space@mc

One way of getting close approaches to the planets and still not have
to decelerate is to have two probes; one would locate the planets and
radio the information to its parner, a MIRVed probe approximately a
year behind.  The second prob has to be MIRVed because there is little
chance of catching even two planets with one probe; gravitational
manouvering doesn't work at .20C.

------------------------------

Date: 31 May 85 10:56:07 PDT (Friday)
From: Lynn.ES@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: Strange launch, and stranger announcements
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: lynn.es@Xerox.ARPA

I was also at RTMC, but was inside during the launch display.  What I
gathered from people outside, radio and newspaper reports was this.

Vandenberg did not have a launch (though a radio report quoted a source
at Edwards as saying they did).  There was a launch (reported singular)
from submarine using the test range off the California coast controlled
by Pt Mugu.  It was seen from as far as Arizona.

In addition to your description, several witnesses stated that the first
vehicle eventually split into 5 vehicles which individually looped and
otherwise maneuvered.  

/Don Lynn

------------------------------

Date: 31 May 85 14:18:29 EDT
From: Hank.Walker@CMU-CS-UNH
Subject: Matter-Antimatter Drive
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

A few years ago, Bob Forward gave a talk here on the science behind his
Analog serial "Rocheworld" (later published as the book "Flight of the
Dragonfly").  He chose to use a laser-driven light sail in the story, but he
also looked into using antimatter.  We already make antimatter in particle
accelerators.  We just make very small quantitities, and do it very
inefficiently.  But then no one has really investigated antimatter
production.

You don't use antimatter by mixing it with equal amounts of matter and
getting gamma rays.  You mix a little antimatter with a lot of hydrogen.
The antimatter is merely a light-weight method of heating hydrogen.  You
keep the amount of hydrogen fixed at millions of kilograms, and vary the
amount of antimatter used, depending on the trip length.  I seem to recall
that interplanetary missions used grams of antimatter, while interstellar
missions used kilograms.

I don't think I'd be real comfortable riding around with 20 quatrillion
joules of potentially explosive energy in my tail.

------------------------------

Date: 31 May 85 15:21:47 EDT
From: Robert.Aarhus@CMU-CS-SPICE
Subject: Mars rumor
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A


	I hate to bring up a rumor like this on one of the best
	net-bboards, but I am hoping that someone "in the know"
	can confirm/deny this story:

	At a national Metallurgical Science convention, it was
	announced that photographs from the Viking lander revealed
	what appeared to be a pyramidal rock formation with "a
	face on it" (this is where I became *real* skeptical);
	the formation, no less, had dimensions akin to those of
	the Great Pyramids. The pyramid appeared in greatly enlarged
	photographs of the martian surface.

	Now a rock formation, perhaps, but a Pyramid with a face?
	Does anyone know if this thing has been observed (maybe just
	a photographic artifact?), and if so, why the media hasn't
	picked up on it (sounds like something from the pages of
	the Enquirer)?..

						Bob Aarhus
						rta@cmu-cs-spice.arpa

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!aplvax!osiris!rob
From: osiris!rob (Robert St. Amant)
Subject: speed
Date: 30 May 85 19:37:12 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins Hospital

I've heard the twin paradox, and until recently I thought I had it
straight.  I thought of something recently, though.  When one twin
takes off, leaving the other here, why does the one in space age
more slowly?  Why can't you use a reference frame travelling with
him and say that the earth is travelling at a great velocity?  Am
I missing something?  (Obviously I am.)

				Rob St. Amant

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-babel!maxwell
From: maxwell@babel.DEC
Subject: Light-weight, omni-directional communications...
Date: 30 May 85 14:17:02 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network

Regarding Henry Spencer's ultra-light (2 kg) sail payload:

> Power and  communications  will obviously be major issues.... Communications
> will probably require a steerable antenna, alas. Would optical communication
> be better?

If an  omni-directional  mirror,  such  as those left on the moon as a laser
target,  could  be  made  light  enough,  how about the following: Cover the
'mirror'  with  an  LCD  shutter, which is modulated by (low power) on-board
electronics.  The payload is tracked by ground based telescopes, which point
a laser  at  the  target  (the  sail  should be easy to track optically) and
record  the  reflection. Result: no moving parts. Problems to solve: mass of
mirror,  LCD  longevity,  and the mirror's size, shape and fight orientation
(since it's fixed relative to the sail throughout the flight).

-+- Sid Maxwell, DEC @ Spit Brook, Nahsua NH

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!ames!moose
From: ames!moose (Mary Kaiser)
Subject: Stuck in the center of the space station problem - HELP
Date: 30 May 85 17:09:38 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
Does anyone have an archive of people's comments and solutions to the
stuck astronaut problem?  I came into the discussion late, and missed
out on most people's input.  If someone out there could help me out,
I'd be very grateful.  I study people's intuitions concerning physics
and mechanics, and this is great stuff.

My address (in case computer mail doesn't make it through, which it often
doesn't on our system) is:
                               Mary Kaiser
                               Mail Stop 239-3
                               NASA Ames Research Center
                               Moffett Field, CA  94035
                               (415) 694-6789
Thanks in advance for your help.
By the way, all you creative souls should contribute to the "What if"
dialogue on net.startrek....last match-up was the Enterprise vs. the
Death Star.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!hplabs!ames!aurora!al
From: aurora!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Re: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
Date: 29 May 85 18:20:12 GMT
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

> 
> Getting stuck "motionless" in vacuum is another matter.  But
> if one got stuck there by pushing another mass away, won't
> the astronaut and the mass meet again in one orbit?

Not if the force is along the velocity vector, at least.  If you
push away a mass along the velocity vector one object will go
into a higher orbit and the other into a lower orbit.  If the
force is not along the velocity vector things get complex.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!hplabs!ames!aurora!al
From: aurora!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Re: Money to burn
Date: 29 May 85 18:35:39 GMT
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

> 
> Assume for a moment that we were not in bugetary hard times and could
> afford an attack of conspicuous consumption. Could a reasonable interstellar
> one-way unmanned probe mission be designed which would give some legitimate
> science data in addition to the usual ego stuff. 

The British Interplanetary society has designed such a craft, unfortunately,
I can't remember what the called it.

> Because of the constraints
> it will be important keep things simple. The parameters?
> 
> 	1. Assume only near term technology and assets. For example, no
> space station. You are allowed two shuttle payloads if necessary - doing
> it in one gets bonus points.
> 
Might as well use the Space Station.  It'll make the job easier and you
won't get anything near ready to launch before its available.

> 	2. Must be ready to launch within 5 years.

Not a prayer.  Almost nothing gets launched within 5 years of conception, 
even very
straightforward build-another-one-just-like-the-last one spacecraft.  The
only exception to this, I believe, are some communication satellites.

> 
> 	3. Assume a target star 20 light years away.
> 
> 	4. Intial data must be received from target star system within 100
> years. An interesting question is what collection strategy to use. You could
> adopt a cometary orbit or try to look for planetary body etc. Minimum
> requirement is a fly-through at less then .05C mean. Remember that your
> communications lines have a 40 year turnaround. May be allowed a 10%
> extension on time limit given a high grade justification.
> 
> 	5. Maximum cost will be 1 billion in current dollars. It may be
> competing in Congress with a submarine base in Arizona so the cheaper
> the better.

No chance whatsoever.  The shuttle launches will cost you $140 million alone,
and most of your cost will be engineering salaries for design and construction
at $60 - 100 an hour.

> 
> 	6. Worship the KISS principle. This thing has to go a long way on
> it own.
> 

Don't forget a lot of redundancy.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!frog!x!john
From: x!john (John Woods)
Subject: Re: Money to burn
Date: 30 May 85 15:20:59 GMT
Organization: Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA

> From: jim@TYCHO.ARPA    (James B. Houser)
> 
> science data in addition to the usual ego stuff. Because of the constraints
> it will be important keep things simple. The parameters?
> 	1. Assume only near term technology and assets. For example, no
> 	2. Must be ready to launch within 5 years.
> 	3. Assume a target star 20 light years away.
> 	4. Intial data must be received from target star system within 100
> years.
> 	Occurred that this would be an interesting thought experiment.
> You can assume the target is in whatever direction you like if it will help.
> Prime issue may be the choice of propulsion scheme. Another question is
> what instruments to carry, preferably few and simple. Any thoughts????
> 
My initial thought is that it may be better to wait:  within 100 years,
perhaps within 50 years, we will be able to do much better than the speeds
currently available (you mentioned .05C, but to get to a start 20LY away in
100 years, you need at least .2C average speed, anyway!).  If in 50 years
we can develop the ability to get a probe to that star in 40 years, you're
10 years ahead by waiting 50 years!

Not that I'm averse to the idea, but it seems that just puttering around
the Solar System for another few decades will be enough to get ready for a
high-class interstellar probe.

Think we could interest Proxmire in a Shuttle ticket?  Hey, to keep it cheap,
it could be one-way!-)
-- 
John Woods, Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA, (617) 626-1101
...!decvax!frog!john, ...!mit-eddie!jfw, jfw%mit-ccc@MIT-XX.ARPA

"MU" said the Sacred Chao...

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!utastro!ethan
From: utastro!ethan (Ethan Vishniac)
Subject: Re: speed
Date: 31 May 85 16:12:17 GMT
Organization: U. Texas, Astronomy, Austin, TX

> I've heard the twin paradox, and until recently I thought I had it
> straight.  I thought of something recently, though.  When one twin
> takes off, leaving the other here, why does the one in space age
> more slowly?  Why can't you use a reference frame travelling with
> him and say that the earth is travelling at a great velocity?  Am
> I missing something?  (Obviously I am.)
> 
> 				Rob St. Amant
 
You can use any reference frame you want.  You have a choice of three
obvious ones:  Earth, astronaut on his way out, and astronaut on his
way back.  The only requirement of the theory is that when the astronaut
returns and compares his age the answer should be consistent with description
in any reference frame.  We have

Earth:  Joe consistently aged more slowly than his hidebound brother John who
        stayed home.

Outward bound frame :  At first John, sitting on a rapidly moving Earth, was
        aging more slowly than Joe.  However, Joe decided to catch up to
        the Earth and during this time aged hardly at all.  The net effect is
        that more time passed for John than for Joe.

Inward bound frame: At first John and Joe are first moving at high speeds.  
        However Joe is moving much more rapidly than John.  After a while
        he stops moving and John (and the Earth) catches up to him.  
        However, Joe spent very little time standing still and the net effect
        is still that less time passed for him (because of his earlier high
        speed motion).
-- 

"Don't argue with a fool.      Ethan Vishniac
 Borrow his money."            {charm,ut-sally,ut-ngp,noao}!utastro!ethan
                               Department of Astronomy
                               University of Texas

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: New Steering System
Date: 31 May 85 03:43:11 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

NASA announced today that, due to brake problems on all 17
shuttle flights, it is abandoning differential braking for
steering the shuttle upon landing.  Instead, all four shuttles
will be modified, by October, to include a new nosewheel
steering system.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #176
*******************

02-Jun-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #177    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 177

Today's Topics:
		 On orbits and meeting what you throw ...
			    Re: Money to burn
		      Re: general space information
		    Interstellar sailing with lasers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 1 Jun 85 15:50:13 PDT (Saturday)
From: Ayers.PA@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: On orbits and meeting what you throw ...
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA

In an appropriate (earth-centered, non-rotating) reference frame, any
coasting earth-orbiter travels in a closed curve. (We neglect air
resistance, the equatorial bulge, the influnce of the sun and moon and
planets, light-pressure, and all that other stuff you get to leave out
of physics problems.)

You are in earth orbit and throw something away from you -- in any
direction, forward, backward, up, down ... The instant after the throw,
both you and the object are coasting in (non-identical) earth orbits.

Since the orbits are closed curves, the orbits will (forever) intersect
at the point of the throw.

One your-orbit-time later, you will be back at the point of the throw.
One object-orbit-time later, the object will be back at the point of the
throw. These times, in general, will be different and the object will
not hit you. But if the "throw" is very gentle, the orbits will be
similar, and after one orbit the object will be very close to you.

Bob

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!greipa!pesnta!lsuc!utcs!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Money to burn
Date: 30 May 85 18:04:47 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

> ...  Since lasers produce a highly collimated
> beam, there is no real 1/(r squared) problem.

Alas, not so.  Lasers do not eliminate the inverse-square problem, they
merely postpone it.  Keeping a beam focused on a lightsail over
interstellar distances is still a major problem, although solutions are
known (albeit ones that involve very large structures, which would have
to be space-based).

Note also that producing any noticeable amount of thrust with a lightsail
requires tremendous laser power output.  Don't be misled by thinking that
it only has to match sunlight; sunlight is (speaking *very* roughly) a
kilowatt per square meter.  When the sail gets large, the necessary laser
power gets huge.  Note also that lasers are inefficient, maybe 15-20%
at best.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!greipa!pesnta!lsuc!utcs!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: general space information
Date: 30 May 85 18:12:33 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

While these news items were interesting, the format of their presentation
was not ideal.  All-lower-case is considerably more readable than all-
upper-case; it would be nice if future postings had this conversion done.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!greipa!pesnta!lsuc!utcs!mnetor!fred
From: mnetor!fred (Fred Williams)
Subject: Interstellar sailing with lasers.
Date: 30 May 85 15:44:22 GMT
Organization: Computer X (CANADA) Ltd., Toronto, Ontario, Canada


	I suspect that the idea of a laser base on earth, or nearby
space as a source of power for an interstellar probe is not
practical. My reasoning is that if a laser aimed at the moon
lights a spot two miles in diameter then the beam is not
sufficiently coherant at interstellar distances. In short,
you *would* be defeated by the inverse square law.
	From a reliablility standpoint I believe the best way to
conduct interstellar exploration is with manned craft. This means
carefully balanced ecosystems, large spacecraft, fully maintainable
and self sufficient. (ie. it doesn't have to come back).
	I realise that this exceeds current cost limitations, but
it's just a dream anyway.
	I believe such a craft could be constructed using present
technology. So have we not reached a point where our reach
exceeds our grasp?

Cheers,		Fred Williams.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #177
*******************

03-Jun-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #178    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 178

Today's Topics:
	     Re: Re: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
		       Re: Matter/Antimatter drive
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!hplabs!ames!aurora!al
From: aurora!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space
Date: 30 May 85 21:28:51 GMT
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

> > 
> > Getting stuck "motionless" in vacuum is another matter.  But
> > if one got stuck there by pushing another mass away, won't
> > the astronaut and the mass meet again in one orbit?
> 
> Not if the force is along the velocity vector, at least.  If you
> push away a mass along the velocity vector one object will go
> into a higher orbit and the other into a lower orbit.  If the
> force is not along the velocity vector things get complex.

Whoops!  After exactly one orbit you will meet up again, and will every
orbit until one party or the other is disturbed.  Sorry ....

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!cybvax0!frog!x!john
From: x!john (John Woods)
Subject: Re: Matter/Antimatter drive
Date: 31 May 85 21:10:20 GMT
Organization: Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA

> From: Anthony J. Courtemanche <AC%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA>
> On the last episode of PBS's Space Flight last night, some futurist
							[ O'Neill, I think ]
> said that in order to make a resonable flight to another star, we
> would need the technology for a matter/anitmatter drive, which I think
> he indicated would be available within the next 100 to 200 years.
> Could someone who understands particle physics please explain what the
> idea is behind a matter/antimatter drive.  Specifically, what does it
> take to make the antimatter and how would one turn the energy from a
> matter/anitmatter explosion into thrust?
> 
To make antimatter, the current technology is to bash high-speed particles
(protons are popular) into a target, which creates "lots" of particle--anti-
particle pairs, some of which are separated by magnets (before they
recombine).  These can be stored (currently) in vacuum chambers with huge
magnets of appropriate configurations (i.e., particle accelerator storage
rings).  SUMMARY -- right now, antimatter is tough to mass produce.

To use antimatter, once you have it (and have it bottled appropriately in
magnetic fields), one idea proposed has been to eject small bits of frozen
anti-hydrogen (relatively easy to make given quantities of anti-electrons
and anti-protons) into a reaction chamber filled with water.  The anti-matter
reacts with matter to form quite a bit of energy, much of which is transferred
to the surrounding water -- which boils instantly, creating pressure that
exits out the nozzle, and voila! a rocket.

The ideas are quite simple.  The engineering may be a tad tough...
-- 
John Woods, Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA, (617) 626-1101
...!decvax!frog!john, ...!mit-eddie!jfw, jfw%mit-ccc@MIT-XX.ARPA

"MU" said the Sacred Chao...

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #178
*******************

04-Jun-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #179    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 179

Today's Topics:
			   Re: Twin Paradox    
			  Laser Source In Orbit 
	 Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space   
			      Re: Mars rumor
		 Meeting in orbit -- A thought experiment
	      Re:  Meeting in orbit -- A thought experiment
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 3 Jun 85 09:44 PDT
From: Ghenis.pasa@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: Twin Paradox    
 PDT
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Ghenis.pasa@Xerox.ARPA

>I've heard the twin paradox, and until recently I thought I had it
>straight.  I thought of something recently, though.  When one twin
>takes off, leaving the other here, why does the one in space age
>more slowly?  Why can't you use a reference frame travelling with
>him and say that the earth is travelling at a great velocity?  Am
>I missing something?  (Obviously I am.)

The key to the twin paradox is that the travelling twin goes on a ROUND
TRIP, so his frame of reference is an ACCELERATED FRAME (you cannot
return to Earth without changing direction, and you cannot change
direction without acceleration) whereas the stationary twin has an
INERTIAL FRAME. This is what makes their frames of reference
non-equivalent, thereby they will experience time differently. 

------------------------------

Date:     Mon, 3 Jun 85 10:22 CDT
From:     Mike_Linnig <linnig%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To:       space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc:       linnig%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
Subject:  Laser Source In Orbit 

>
> Alas, not so.  Lasers do not eliminate the inverse-square problem, they
> merely postpone it.  Keeping a beam focused on a lightsail over
> interstellar distances is still a major problem, although solutions are
> known (albeit ones that involve very large structures, which would have
> to be space-based).

ah... 

but be careful about providing photon thrust from a laser in earth orbit
or you might find yourself launching your laser platform !


Mike Linnig
Texas Instruments Inc.,
Ada Technology Branch

------------------------------

Date: 3 Jun 85 10:13 PDT
From: Ghenis.pasa@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting stuck in the middle of space   
 85 03:47 PDT
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Ghenis.pasa@Xerox.ARPA

>>> 
>>> Getting stuck "motionless" in vacuum is another matter.  But
>>> if one got stuck there by pushing another mass away, won't
>>> the astronaut and the mass meet again in one orbit?
>> 
>> Not if the force is along the velocity vector, at least.  If you
>> push away a mass along the velocity vector one object will go
>> into a higher orbit and the other into a lower orbit.  If the
>> force is not along the velocity vector things get complex.
>
>Whoops!  After exactly one orbit you will meet up again, and will every
>orbit until one party or the other is disturbed.  Sorry ....

Whoops! Both objects will continue to pass through the point of
separation in each orbit, but they will not meet for a long time because
having different orbits they will have different orbital periods, hence
they won't return to that point AT THE SAME TIME after one orbit. Sorry
....

------------------------------

Date: 3 Jun 85 10:28:15 PDT (Monday)
From: Lynn.ES@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: Mars rumor
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Lynn.es@Xerox.ARPA, Robert.Aarhus@CMU-CS-SPICE.ARPA

NASA has been showing those pictures for years, and people keep trying
to make something out of them.  There are two separate objects on Mars
to which you refer, one a pyramid shaped peak, quite regular, and the
other a rock formation that with just the right sunlight angle appears
roughly like a face.  But only roughly.  There is no reason to assume
they are other than natural rock formations.  After all there are
several famous natural rock "faces" here on earth.
/Don Lynn

------------------------------

Date:     Mon, 3 Jun 85 17:39 CDT
From:     Mike_Linnig <linnig%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To:       space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc:       linnig%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
Subject:  Meeting in orbit -- A thought experiment

> > 
> > Not if the force is along the velocity vector, at least.  If you
> > push away a mass along the velocity vector one object will go
> > into a higher orbit and the other into a lower orbit.  If the
> > force is not along the velocity vector things get complex.
> 
> Whoops!  After exactly one orbit you will meet up again, and will every
> orbit until one party or the other is disturbed.  Sorry ....
> 

Now wait a minute, suppose I throw a *BIG* rock fast enough to give
myself escape velocity.  When exactly, will I meet that rock again ?

Since the last time I saw my rock it was heading away from me, and
I am no longer in orbit...........



"Thought experiments are wonderful things."

	-- Mike Linnig

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 85 20:48:15 pdt
From: Rick McGeer <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
To: linnig%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.ARPA, space@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Re:  Meeting in orbit -- A thought experiment

	If you threw yourself into an escape orbit, you'd throw the rock into
an impact orbit.  I think.

	Well, know, that's not quite true.  Snce MV = MV, if the rock was very
large in mass compared with you (or if both you and the rock were in near-escape
orbits), you'd merely throw the rock into a lower orbit.

					Rick.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #179
*******************

05-Jun-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #180    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 180

Today's Topics:
			       Twin paradox
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 85 00:21:17 est
From: Tony Guzzi <tonyg%uconn.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA

~s Matter-Antimatter and particles near the speed of light
     A number of submissions in the past few days has dealt with the idea of
traveling near the speed of light and shipd with a matter-antimatter drive.
In the last issue (vol 5, issue #178), John Woods said:

> To make antimatter, the current technology is to bash high-speed particles
> (protons are popular) into a target, which creates "lots" of particle--anti-
> particle pairs, some of which are separated by magnets (before they
> recombine). 

I believe that I've heard that antimatter is also produced whenever a particle
is accelerated very close to the speed of light.  If this is wrong then the rest
of what I have to say is meaningless and everyone can ignore it.  But if I'm
right, then I think "we" may have a problem with trying to accelerate anything
(larger than a subatomic particle) close to the speed of light.  Imagine this:

   *  You have a molecule that is composed of, say, 1000 subatomic particles
                                                (protons, electrons, neutrons)

   *  You accelerate this molecule to close to the speed of light, close enough
      to cause antimatter to be produced.

   *  Since the molecule contains 1000 subatomic particles, you are infact not
      accelerating 1 particle but 1000 particles.

If you are close enough to the speed of light to produce antimatter, would not
the 1000 paricles making up the molecule soon be accompanied by 1000
antimatter particles which are trying to move away or are being pulled away from
thier matter counterpart.  What we have now seems to be two molecules, one
matter, the other antimatter, overlapping each other and trying to separate
or being separated into two groups (a matter group and an antimatter group).
The problem occurs during the separation.  There would seem to be a
non-negligible probability that the antimatter counterpart of one matter
particle could collide with the matter part of another particle pair resulting
in a matter-antimatter annihilation.  As we increase the number of original
matter particles being accelerated to near the speed of light, the number of
annihilations would grow with the result that an object the size of a space
ship would be "blown to a million pieces" in a matter-anitmatter explosion.

As I said, I think the antimatter counterpart of a particle is produced when
the particle is accelerated to near the speed of light.  Any ideas or thoughts?
I am also sending this out to the physics bboard (PHYSICS@SRI-UNIX.ARPA).
I'll pass on any responses I get.


					Tony Guzzi
					<tonyg%uconn.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 85 06:02 PDT
From: TERRY%LAJ.SAINET.MFENET@LLL-MFE.ARPA
Subject: Twin paradox
To: SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS@MIT-MC.ARPA



Since the subject of special relativity's twin paradox has come up,
let me add one small note.  Many people believe that the "paradox" part
of the twin paradox is that the two twins are no longer the same age.
This is not the case.  The paradox referred to as the "twin paradox" is
precisely the question posed by the original posting on this subject:
"Since all motion is relative, why should the twins have different
ages?  We can regard either twin as being stationary and the other
twin as moving, therefore we can show that each twin should be younger
than the other."  NOW we have a paradox.

The answer, as has been pointed out, is that the two twins are NOT in
symmetrical situations.  The traveling twin has undergone a fair amount
of acceleration with respect to the Earth that the Earthbound twin has
obviously not.  It is precisely this acceleration that causes the traveling
twin to age more slowly, and thus be younger upon return, than the Earth-
bound twin.  Paradox resolved.

For those of you who are also on the physics mailing list, we are in
a similar situation here as all the postings regarding objects such as
the Moon moving much faster than the speed of light if you are sitting
on a spinning turntable while watching it.  As was concluded by a number
of folks, accelerated (non-inertial) reference frames don't count in
special relativity.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #180
*******************

06-Jun-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #181    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 181

Today's Topics:
	 Matter-Antimatter and particles near the speed of light
			   Re: Re: twin paradox
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wednesday,  5 Jun 1985 07:43-EDT
From: jrv@Mitre-Bedford
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject: Matter-Antimatter and particles near the speed of light

>> To make antimatter, the current technology is to bash high-speed particles
>> (protons are popular) into a target, which creates "lots" of particle--anti-
>> particle pairs, some of which are separated by magnets (before they
>> recombine).

> I believe that I've heard that antimatter is also produced whenever a particle
> is accelerated very close to the speed of light...
>
>                                         Tony Guzzi
>                                         <tonyg%uconn.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>

Merely accelerating matter doesn't produce antimatter.  However, if you
*Accelerate* a *charged* particle (by forcing it to travel in a circle, for
example), you will produce *photons* (synchrotron radiation, in this case).
				     - Jim Van Zandt

------------------------------

Date: 5 Jun 85 13:42:41 EDT
From: Charles.Fineman@CMU-CS-SPICE
Subject: Re: Re: twin paradox
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

> The key to the twin paradox is that the travelling twin goes on a ROUND
> TRIP, so his frame of reference is an ACCELERATED FRAME (you cannot
> return to Earth without changing direction, and you cannot change
> direction without acceleration) whereas the stationary twin has an
> INERTIAL FRAME. This is what makes their frames of reference
> non-equivalent, thereby they will experience time differently. 

What if we assume that the universe is closed? Then it would be possible to 
return to earth without changing your accelration. What happens then?

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #181
*******************

07-Jun-85  0359	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #182    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 182

Today's Topics:
       Re: Matter-Antimatter and particles near the speed of light
			    Re: Money to burn
		   Closed Universe and the Twin Paradox
		     NASA laser videodiscs available
		       Re: Matter/Antimatter drive
		       shuttle/ground frequencies?
			  Twin Paradox Explained
       Re: Matter-Antimatter and particles near the speed of light
				Re: speed
			      Re: Mars rumor
		      Spartan 1 to Study Black Hole
			   New steering system
		       Re: Re: Interstellar probes
			  Re: ultralight probes
			Next Four Shuttle Launches
		     Re: Progress of Shuttle Atlantis
		 Re: Closed Universe and the Twin Paradox
	      Re: Strange launch, and stranger announcements
			 Re: interstellar probes
		   Wanted: orbital mechanics program(s)
			 shuttle mission in July?
	      Re:  Meeting in orbit -- A thought experiment
			      Re: Mars rumor
			   Re: Re: twin paradox
		    What's happening on the solstice?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thursday,  6 Jun 1985 07:29-EDT
From: jrv@Mitre-Bedford
To: mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley
Subject: Re: Matter-Antimatter and particles near the speed of light
Cc: space@mit-mc

>         Is the path of the photon normal to the path of the particle? (if the
> particle is moving in a circle, I suppose I should say normal to the tangent
> of the photon's path)
>
>                                         Rick.

For nonrelativistic particles, the radiation from an accelerated charged
particle is mostly normal to the path
of the particle.  For relativistic particles, the radiation is forward
(like headlights on a car).  (See Jackson, _Classical Electrodynamics_,
2nd edition, page 663, figure 14.4)
				      - Jim Van Zandt

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!watmath!wateng!broehl
From: wateng!broehl (Bernie Roehl)
Subject: Re: Money to burn
Date: 29 May 85 14:51:23 GMT
Reply-To: broehl@wateng.UUCP (Bernie Roehl)
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario

Hmm...

  To get first data back in ~100 years, and given that 40 of those years
is the time it would take the data to make the trip back, you have 60 years
to get to a star 20 ly away.  Thus, you must be travelling at .3c, average.
  However, the speed in the target system must be reduced to 0.05c; this is
a non-trivial task!

  Doing the whole thing by 1990 for less than $1B is, to say the least,
extremely challenging.

  Personally, I don't think it's possible.  However...

  The most promising form of propulsion is probably the use of ground-based
lasers.  You would use one shuttle flight to put the probe itself in orbit,
along with a *very* long-lasting nuclear power source and self-repairing
on-board systems (don't laugh; serious research has been done in this area).
The second shuttle flight would carry a modified Centaur stage and a *huge*
solar sail.

  You mate the two in earth orbit, and use the Centaur to take the thing on
a trajectory past some massive body (e.g. Jupiter) to give it more of a kick
(or, more accurately, redirect its velocity vector to a more useful direction).
One possibility is to use Jupiter to cancel the craft's orbital velocity
relative to the Sun, and use the Sun's gravity for even more of a slingshot.

  All this maneuvering would take a number of years, but the end result would
be a craft leaving the solar system with a reasonable velocity (still nowhere
near c of course, put respectable nevertheless).

  By the time all of this is done, we may very well have powerful enough
ground-based (or space-based?) lasers that we can start using them to propel
the craft further.  The craft would unfurl its sail, and we would focus the
laser on it, providing thrust.  Since lasers produce a highly collimated
beam, there is no real 1/(r squared) problem.

  In theory, you can eventually get the thing moving at a pretty good clip;
after all, you get a small but continuous acceleration for ~60 years.
(remember of course that a ground-based laser would not be able to "see" the
probe continuosly, but it wouldn't be that many years before space-based
lasers would supplant the ground-based one(s)).

  The big problem is slowing the probe down when it arrives.  The best way
is to have a laser on the destination end, but in this case that seems a
little unlikely.  Other than that, no solution seems immediately obvious.

  Of course, I would hope that in the 100 years it would take to get data
back from the probe, we will have reached the point where the probe itself
is little more than an historical curiousity.  Personally, I want to be
there when the probe arrives...

-- 
        -Bernie Roehl    (University of Waterloo)
	...decvax!watmath!wateng!broehl

------------------------------

Date: 6 Jun 85 09:31 PDT
From: Ghenis.pasa@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Closed Universe and the Twin Paradox
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Ghenis.pasa@Xerox.ARPA

>> The key to the twin paradox is that the travelling twin goes on a
ROUND
>> TRIP, so his frame of reference is an ACCELERATED FRAME (you cannot
>> return to Earth without changing direction, and you cannot change
>> direction without acceleration) whereas the stationary twin has an
>> INERTIAL FRAME. This is what makes their frames of reference
>> non-equivalent, thereby they will experience time differently. 
>
>What if we assume that the universe is closed? Then it would be
possible to 
>return to earth without changing your accelration. What happens then?

(You mean without acceleration ...)

Interesting thought.  This would lead to a paradoxical situation when
the twins met again.  Since both would have had inertial frames of
reference, their ages should be the same (the symmetry of the thought
experiment requires this). However, each will expect the other to be
younger due to the perceived time dilation (Doppler effect).

Summary: The assumption of a closed universe leads to a contradiction. 

Does this rationale DISPROVE the notion of a closed universe?

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!hplabs!tektronix!orca!andrew
From: orca!andrew (Andrew Klossner)
Subject: NASA laser videodiscs available
Date: 1 Jun 85 22:40:24 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Wilsonville OR

I have three "computer products catalog data sheets" which describe
space-related videodiscs available from NASA.  These sheets are
normally used to describe software, and includes blocks for "file size
in number of reels or punched cards", "programming language", and
"operating system", all of which have been left blank.  In each case,
the following address is given:

	NASA
	Jet Propulsion Laboratory
	California Institute of Technology
	4800 Oak Grove Driver
	Pasadena, California  91103

========================================================================

ACCESSION NUMBER
	PB84-191162

CONTRIBUTING AGENCY REPORT NUMBER
	NASA/DF-84/001 (see AVAILABILITY STATEMENT below)

PRODUCT NAME
	Selected NASA JPL Mission Video Images (Videodisc)

DESCRIPTORS OF PRODUCT
	Data File

DATES OF COVERAGE
	1982

AVAILABILITY STATEMENT - AGENCY NAME AND ADDRESS, ORDER NO., ETC.
	This data file supersedes PB83-223 123 (NASA/DF-83/001)

PRICE INFORMATION
	$50.00 domestic; $80.00 foreign (code T99)

TECHNICAL REPRESENTATIVES
	Frank Bristow
	Manager, Public Information Office
	(213) 354-4321

COMPUTER PRODUCT ABSTRACT
	The Selected JPL Mission Video Images-Videodisc consists of a
	one sided color recording of selected motion picture and
	television clips.  It contains one hour of film and video clips
	from selected JPL flight missions: Ranger 9 photos of the Moon;
	Surveyor, Mariner 2 and 10 pre-launch film clips; Voyager 1 and
	2 photos of Jupiter; The Jovian System; and Voyager 1 and 2
	photos of Saturn.  The disc can be played on Laser Disc Players
	made by Sony, Discovision, Pioneer, and Magnavox.

========================================================================

ACCESSION NUMBER
	PB85-144756

CONTRIBUTING AGENCY REPORT NUMBER
	NASA/DF-85/003

PRODUCT NAME
	Planetary Image Videodisc Volume I

DESCRIPTORS OF PRODUCT
	Data File

DATES OF COVERAGE
	1982

PRICE INFORMATION
	$50.00 domestic; $80.00 foreign (code T99)

TECHNICAL REPRESENTATIVES
	Michael D. Martin
	Operations Manager
	(213) 354-6065

COMPUTER PRODUCT ABSTRACT
	The Planetary Image Videodisc is an analog-encoded optical disc
	containing more than 100,000 black and white images of Mercury,
	Venus, Mars, and Jupiter taken during the Mariner, Viking, and
	Voyager planetary missions.  An equivalent number of 8- x
	10-in. photographs would require nearly 300 cubic feet of
	storage space (14 cabinets containing 666 binders).  More than
	a year of effort went into organizing, labeling, and
	photographing the individual images on 35-mm film.  The film
	was then transferred to videotape, then a master videodisc was
	produced, and copies for distribution were made.

	Response from the scientific community has been overwhelmingly
	favorable both to the instantaneous access to images provided
	by videodisc technology and to the overall quality of the
	images on the disc.  The disc represents the first full-scale
	use of videodisc technology for storage and retrieval of an
	image archive and a significant step toward our ultimate goal
	of widespread dissemination of space science data to both the
	scientific and educational communities.  The disc can be played
	on Laser Disc Players made by Sony, Discovision, Pioneer, and
	Magnavox.

========================================================================

ACCESSION NUMBER
	PB85-144764

CONTRIBUTING AGENCY REPORT NUMBER
	NASA/DF-85/002

PRODUCT NAME
	Planetary Image Videodisc, Volume II

DESCRIPTORS OF PRODUCT
	Data File

DATES OF COVERAGE
	1982

PRICE INFORMATION
	$50.00 domestic; $80.00 foreign (code T99)

TECHNICAL REPRESENTATIVES
	Michael D. Martin
	Operations Manager
	(213) 354-6065

COMPUTER PRODUCT ABSTRACT
	(same abstract as for volume I)

========================================================================

I personally haven't seen this discs.

  -=- Andrew Klossner   (decvax!tektronix!orca!andrew)       [UUCP]
                        (orca!andrew.tektronix@csnet-relay)  [ARPA]

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Matter/Antimatter drive
Date: 1 Jun 85 23:52:56 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

> Could someone who understands particle physics please explain what the
> idea is behind a matter/antimatter drive.  Specifically, what does it
> take to make the antimatter...

Existing particle accelerators can make antimatter, albeit at hideously
low efficiencies.  High-energy physicists are, I believe, doing some work
with antiproton beams; the technique is to isolate antiprotons from the
debris produced when a proton beam hits a target, and then accumulate
them in a storage ring until you've got enough to be useful.  Decelerating
them to lower velocities is not hard.  "Cooling" them -- removing the
random component of their velocities -- is harder but the physicists
already have adequate answers for this.  Bringing them to a full stop
has never been done, but presents no serious problems.  Combining them
with positrons to make anti-hydrogen is easy.  Handling the result is
tricky, but there are enough different ideas about how to do it that
the problem should be solvable.

The major hassle remains inefficient production, largely because the
existing accelerators were not designed as antimatter factories.  Dr.
Robert Forward (senior scientist at Hughes, and advanced-propulsion
consultant to the USAF) says that there appears to be no major obstacle
to getting the efficiency up quite a bit from where it is now, if one
assumes a large dedicated facility.

> ...and how would one turn the energy from a
> matter/anitmatter explosion into thrust?

Positron plus electron equals gamma rays, ugh.  Fortunately, proton plus
antiproton isn't that simple.  First you get both neutral and charged
pions.  The neutral pions are impossible to do anything with, both because
they lack charge and because their life is very short.  The charged pions
are a different story; much of the energy of the proton-antiproton reaction
comes out as their kinetic energy.  Their lifetime is sufficient that they
travel several meters.  Since they are charged, they can be bullied about
with magnetic fields.  So one can build a magnetic nozzle that will get
them going rearward.  When they decay, the major product is muons.  These
too are charged, and their lifetime equals a kilometer or so of motion.
So if the charged pions are too much of a problem, you can use a magnetic
nozzle on the muons instead.  You lose some energy in the pion decay, but
it's still workable.  Either way you get an exhaust of charged particles
at very close to the speed of light, plus a spray of gamma rays and other
ugly things that one would rather live without...

In practice, there is a problem with this.  The exhaust velocity is pretty
high, but the thrust will probably be low because the gamma rays and other
uncharged trash will limit the annihilation rate -- too much radiation and
the coils that produce the magnetic nozzle will absorb enough to melt.  For
many purposes, it is probably better to use the matter-antimatter reaction
to heat something else, probably hydrogen.  The exhaust velocity will be
lower, hence you get less ship velocity for a given amount of fuel, but
the thrust will be much higher and hence the engine will be more useful.

There's a whole range of tradeoffs.  For interplanetary work, lower exhaust
velocities will be plenty and the higher thrust will speed things up
considerably.  For interstellar rockets, you want the highest possible
exhaust velocity, within the restriction that the acceleration time
shouldn't be too ridiculously long.  And if you want a really sexy
interstellar drive, consider using antimatter to heat the gas gathered
in by a Bussard ramscoop...

> On the last episode of PBS's Space Flight last night, some futurist
> said that in order to make a resonable flight to another star, we
> would need the technology for a matter/anitmatter drive,

There are other ways, but antimatter may well be the most promising.

> which I think
> he indicated would be available within the next 100 to 200 years.

Forward says that existing technology is probably good enough to make
antimatter cost-competitive for in-space propulsion.  (Remember that the
current alternative is lifting large quantities of liquid hydrogen and
oxygen from the ground, which is expensive.)  If he's right -- and he's
a professional in this area -- it's probably going to happen a lot sooner
than "100 to 200 years".
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcc3!sdcc12!wa68
From: sdcc12!wa68 (Alice Greene)
Subject: shuttle/ground frequencies?
Date: 2 Jun 85 03:23:08 GMT
Organization: U.C. San Diego, Academic Computer Center

Can anyone tell me whether it is possible to listen to shuttle to
ground communications by tuning a short wave receiver to the proper
frequency?  Something about this was posted to the net a while ago,
but at the time I paid no attention. I haven't been able to scan
backwards successfully to find the information.

Thank you for your help.

          Alice Greene  [sdcc12!wa68]

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-viking!wasser_1
From: wasser_1@viking.DEC (John A. Wasser)
Subject: Twin Paradox Explained
Date: 3 Jun 85 14:05:41 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network


	The Twin Paradox occurs because of the contraction along the
	direction of travel of objects moving at high speed relative
	to the observer.  Lets take a trip from Earth to a star 10
	light-years away at a speed where the contraction is 1/2.
	Lets call this speed .5c (which is wrong).  (V would realy 
	be 211,985,280m/s or c/sqrt(2) or about .707c)	The ship leaves 
	Earth at this speed, goes to the star and instantly reverses 
	direction (this will simplify the example).

	Observer on the ship moving relative to the Earth/Star system:

		Due to the contraction, the distance from the Earth to
		the star looks like 5 light years.  Traveling 5 light 
		years at .5c takes ten years.  Reversing direction and 
		traveling the other way also takes 10 years so the total 
		trip time (measured in the ship) is 20 years.

	Observer on the Earth/Star system moving relative to the ship:

		Due to the contraction, the length of the ship seems
		to be half its normal length.  The distance to the
		star is still 10 light-years because the observer is
		not moving along the vector between the Earth and the
		star.  The Earth/Star system move past the ship for 
		20 years at .5c.  At this time the star end of the 
		Earth/Star system has reached the (stationary) ship.
		The system now reverses direction and moves past the
		ship in the opposite direction.  In another 20 years
		of moving at .5c, the Earth has once again reached
		the ship.  The total trip time (measured on the Earth)
		is 40 years.

	Much of this I derived for my own edification after reading
	"Einstein for Beginners".  It explains why the speed limit
	on light implies contraction.
		-John A. Wasser

Work address:
ARPAnet:	WASSER%VIKING.DEC@decwrl.ARPA
Usenet:		{allegra,Shasta,decvax}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-viking!wasser
Easynet:	VIKING::WASSER
Telephone:	(617)486-2505
USPS:		Digital Equipment Corp.
		Mail stop: LJO2/E4
		30 Porter Rd
		Littleton, MA  01460

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jun 85 09:55:19 pdt
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
To: jrv@Mitre-Bedford
Subject: Re: Matter-Antimatter and particles near the speed of light
Cc: space@mit-mc

	Hmm.  In either case, with appropriate mirrors, we have a "Dean
Machine", albeit not a very powerful one.

				Rick.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!mcnc!rti-sel!rtp47!throopw
From: rtp47!throopw (Wayne Throop)
Subject: Re: speed
Date: 1 Jun 85 16:17:01 GMT
Organization: Data General, RTP, NC

> I've heard the twin paradox, and until recently I thought I had it
> straight.  I thought of something recently, though.  When one twin
> takes off, leaving the other here, why does the one in space age
> more slowly?  Why can't you use a reference frame travelling with
> him and say that the earth is travelling at a great velocity?  Am
> I missing something?  (Obviously I am.)
>
> 				Rob St. Amant

You may have have heard the twin paradox before, but apparently you just
realized why it is a paradox.  After all, if one twin simply ages faster
than the other, where is the paradox?  The paradox is that *each* twin
ages faster than the other (depending on your point of reference).

To be more specific, imagine two folks of the same age, each traveling
at some large fraction of C with respect to the other.  Each will find
that the other fellow seems to be aging slower.  One way to resolve the
paradox is to note that, unless one or the other fellow accelerates,
they will never meet again, and hence the paradox can never be realized.
On the other hand, if they *do* accelerate, that takes it out of the
realm of special relativity, and *general* relativity accounts for the
situation.  (I have heard this hand-wave from several science
popularizers, including either Arthur Clarke or Issac Asimov, I can't
remember which).

As I understand it, the situation *does* key on the acceleration, but
the resolution of the paradox doesn't require general relativity.  The
key to the thing is what is considered "simultaneous" by each person in
the situation.  Let's tag the people here left-traveling and
right-traveling (where "traveling" is simply in relation to the other
person). The set of events in space-time considered "simultaneous" by
the left-traveling person is *not* the same set of points considered
"simultaneous" by the right-traveling person.

For example, the left-traveling person considers the event "I've aged 1
year", simultaneous with event "the right-traveler has aged
half-a-year".  Also, the right-traveling person considers the event
"I've aged 1 year", simultaneous with the event "the left-traveler has
aged half-a-year".  However, these two "facts" don't conflict, since
they are derived from different reference frames.

Now then, assume that the right-traveler accelerates after having
traveled 1 year, and aquires the same velocity as the left-traveler.
This acceleration changes the set of events that the right-traveler
considers simultaneous.  The right-traveler now considers the event
"I've aged one year" to be simultaneous with "the left-traveler has aged
two years".  One way to look at it is that the right-traveler sees the
left traveler age one-and-a-half years during the acceleration, and the
paradox evaporates in a puff of exhaust gasses. :-)

I hope this clarifies things rather than making them worse.  It is a
little easier to understand with diagrams, but I can't get my space-time
charts to look good using simple character graphics.  Sigh.
-- 
Wayne Throop at Data General, RTP, NC
<the-known-world>!mcnc!rti-sel!rtp47!throopw

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!columbia!topaz!steiner
From: steiner@topaz.ARPA (Dave Steiner)
Subject: Re: Mars rumor
Date: 4 Jun 85 21:24:19 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In the June 2nd issue of Parade Magazine (distributed in a number of
newspapers) there is an article by Carl Sagan titled THE MAN IN THE MOON and
subtitled "Why do people see faces in eggplants, tortillas, in the Moon and
the planets?"  In the article they talk about the face (at Cydonia) you 
describe (althought there is no mention of a pyramid).  They have two
pictures of it, one that is quite like a face, the other with the lighting
at a different angle where it looks more like an irregular hill.  An
interesting article.
-- 
ds

uucp:   ...{harvard, seismo, ut-sally, sri-iu, ihnp4!packard}!topaz!steiner
arpa:   Steiner@RUTGERS

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!mhuxt!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Spartan 1 to Study Black Hole
Date: 4 Jun 85 02:19:36 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

On the fourth day of the next flight of the Discovery,
Spartan 1 will be deployed by the RMS.  Floating 100
miles away from the shuttle, it will peer towards the
galactic centre and probe for a possible black hole there,
measuring X-ray emmissions.  Then, on the 6th day of
the mission, the satellite will be picked up to be
returned to Earth for a future flight.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-dvinci!fisher
From: fisher@dvinci.DEC
Subject: New steering system
Date: 4 Jun 85 12:56:31 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network

<>
> NASA announced...that it is abandoning differential braking and will
> install a new nosewheel steering system on all shuttles by October

Can anyone comment on the implications of this decision?  There must be some
disadvantage, or it would have been done in the first place.  Weight?  Anything
else?

Also, where did the brakes go awry?  Was the initial analysis wrong (regarding
braking pressure required, etc) or do the brakes not meet the specs?

Burns
	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher
	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!aicchi!dbb
From: aicchi!dbb (Burch)
Subject: Re: Re: Interstellar probes
Date: 2 Jun 85 12:53:42 GMT
Organization: Analysts International Corp; Chicago Branch

As for how to slow a probe at target when you are using "solar" sails as
propulsion: In a DOD report, Robert L. Forward proposed using a light sail
that is in to segments, a large outer ring and a small inner circle. When
departing, the two segments are used as a single sail. When decelerating, the
large outer ring is dropped, and the spacecraft with small sail attached
turns around. You then (Well, you actually start years before) turn on your
earth based LASERs. The large outer ring acts as a mirror, and reflects
the light from earth onto the probe's sail. Needless to say, the reflector
sail departs the probe at a healthy acceleration, but they are both so far
from earth that the subtended angle will not change much over the course of the
deceleration program. As a sind note, the light reaching the small sail would
be extremely redshifted...

-Ben Burch
AIC

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!cbosgd!osu-eddie!beslove
From: osu-eddie!beslove (Adam Beslove)
Subject: Re: ultralight probes
Date: 1 Jun 85 12:12:50 GMT
Reply-To: beslove@osu-eddie.UUCP (Adam Beslove)
Organization: Ohio State Univ., CIS Dept., Cols, Oh.

In article <3169@dartvax.UUCP> chuck@dartvax.UUCP (Chuck Simmons) writes:

>> ...has anyone considerred the possibility of building
>> a lightsail out of photo-electric material?  

There will be a large energy loss due to the inefficiency of present
photo-electric materials.  A recent break thru of 12% efficiency rings a
bell, but I'm not certain.

>Would it be possible to design a "fabric" consisting of carbon or silicon 
>atoms with various other kinds of atoms in between.  The result would be 
>a molecule (in much the same way that a polymer is a molecule, except in 
>two dimensions) a few atoms thick.  A well-designed fabric might contain
>many itty-bitty holes, thus decreasing the density even further.
>
>*sigh*  Maybe if I don't think about the problem of making a square sheet
>of this fabric measuring a kilometer on a side, it will go away.
>-- Chuck

Assuming this sail would need to be assembled in space from terrestrial and
extra-terestrial raw materials, the fabric idea makes sense.  These
materials can be extruded thru laser cut holes into a continuous thread,
then densely woven into sail material.  This material can then be stretched
to it's desired size.  Extrusion makes weaving easy in 0 g's, just aim,
shoot, and stop flow after x meters have been extruded.  The stuff will
solidify pretty fast, too. With extruders on the x and y axis, weaving and
extruding could take place simultaniously.

The dimentions of the sheet wouldn't be tough, as the extrution equipment
would be mostly insulated piping and could be designed modularly.  Increase
in sail size could be accomplished by addition of extrution modules to the
loom. 

A problem I see with extrusion is regulating thread width.  Am I wrong to
assume that even if you extrude out of a very small hole, the stream will
thicken a bit before it hardens?  Could this be an advantage in that it 
would let us stretch the stuff out to our desired size?

>>>>Adam Beslove    (c)1985     (aka Odious Verity)
======================================================================
(UUCP: ...!cbosgd!osu-eddie!beslove)
(CSNet: beslove@ohio-state)		        The world is my sandbox,
(ARPA: beslove%ohio-state.csnet@CSNET-RELAY)    humanity my playmates.

------------------------------

Date:  6-Jun-85 11:54 PDT
From: William Daul / McDonnell-Douglas / APD-ASD  <WBD.TYM@OFFICE-2>
Subject: Next Four Shuttle Launches
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.arpa

DOes anyone have the current launch dates and landing dates?  I am thinking of 
going out to another landing at Edwards.  In November of last year I sent a 
schedule of launches out...I was wondering if due to launch problems and 
cancellations earlier this year, if the schedule of launches has changed.  

Thanks,  --Bi\\

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Re: Progress of Shuttle Atlantis
Date: 3 Jun 85 03:12:46 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

For general interest, OFP stands for Orbiter Processing
Facility.  Shuttles are processed there (for things like
minor repairs, tiles, etc.) and then moved to the VAB
for mating with the ET (external tank) and SRB's (solid
rocket boosters)

------------------------------

Date: 6 Jun 85 11:58 PDT
From: Ghenis.pasa@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: Closed Universe and the Twin Paradox
 message of Thu, 6 Jun 85 10:31:41 pdt
To: mcgeer%ucbkim@UCB-VAX.ARPA
cc: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA,Ghenis.pasa@Xerox.ARPA

>Wrongo.  How did the twin leave the earth?  How does he return?  If
>two world-lines become separated, then one or both had to accelerate;
hence
>one or both spend some time in non-inertial frames.  Hence there roles
are
>asymmetric.
>
Sigh... I knew I should have been more explicit about the underlying
assumptions. Here they are:

1) The thought experiment starts with the travelling twin already
possesing an initial velocity v and passing by the stationary twin.
Their clocks are synchronized at that moment. The rest of the thought
experiment will deal with their delta times.

2) What you are saying is absolutely true in FLAT space-time. This is
the domain of special relativity. General relativity goes beyond that,
dealing also with CURVED space-time. Without going into details, just
think about the fact that free-falling into a gravitational potential
(ie.  an astronaut floating inside an orbiting space shuttle) is
indistinguishable from inertial travel in space (ie. the same astronaut
floating inside an interstellar probe with velocity v. If there were no
windows he would be unable to tell whether he was still on course or had
been trapped into the orbit of some neutron star)

The buzzwords CLOSED UNIVERSE (*) refer to the theory that overall,
time-space in our universe is curved enough that any trajectory will
eventually close. (The curvature coming from the gravitational field of
the aggregate mass of everything in the universe), so that the light
from a source will return to its point of origin some day. Even if the
universe isn't flat it need not be closed, since it can be "hyperbolic"
(I'm being a bit loose, but try thinking of the planets' elliptic orbits
vs. a hyperbolic orbit that approaches once and leaves, never to return
because it has more than the escape velocity for the local gravitational
field)

(*) Closed universe also refers to whether, within the Big Bang
framework, the expansion of the universe will one day stop and
contraction will start, giving an eventual "Big Crash", the cycle to be
repeated eternally. An open universe would instead expand forever,
slowing down but never stopping. If we can determine the total mass of
the Universe, knowing the expansion rate we would have the answer to
this since it is essentially an escape velocity problem.

This certainly seems to be related to the original problem: would a
closed universe in the Big Bang sense imply that the curvature of the
universe's space-time is closed?

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!petrus!karn
From: petrus!karn
Subject: Re: Strange launch, and stranger announcements
Date: 3 Jun 85 15:03:14 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Inc

Wonderful. You got to see a preview of the end of the world.

Phil

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!sabre!zeta!epsilon!gamma!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!cbosgd!ukma!sean
From: ukma!sean (Sean Casey)
Subject: Re: interstellar probes
Date: 4 Jun 85 18:16:52 GMT
Reply-To: sean@ukma.UUCP (Sean Casey)
Organization: The White Tower @ The Univ. of KY

In article <2010@mordor.UUCP> @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC.ARPA:king@Kestrel writes:
>One way of getting close approaches to the planets and still not have
>to decelerate is to have two probes; one would locate the planets and
>radio the information to its parner, a MIRVed probe approximately a
>year behind.  The second prob has to be MIRVed because there is little
>chance of catching even two planets with one probe; gravitational
>manouvering doesn't work at .20C.

I'm going to get flamed for being this picky, but MIRV stands for Multiple
Independently targeted Reentry Vehicle.  I don't think he had reentry in mind.

-- 

-  Sean Casey				UUCP:	{cbosgd,anlams,hasmed}!ukma!sean
-  Department of Mathematics		ARPA:	ukma!sean@ANL-MCS.ARPA	
-  University of Kentucky

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!munck
From: linus!munck (Robert Munck)
Subject: Wanted: orbital mechanics program(s)
Date: 6 Jun 85 02:05:19 GMT
Reply-To: munck@linus.UUCP (Robert Munck)
Organization: The MITRE Coporation, Bedford, MA


Now that I have the big AT with the arithmetic processor and good graphics
support, I'd like to put together something that will let me "play around"
with orbiting bodies of various kinds.  For example, I'd like to run a
simulation of the Earth-Moon system with a "skyhook" or two in place. 
(skyhook: a cable anchored on the equator and extending to a weight
at or beyond synchronous orbit; in effect, a bridge across the gravity
well (I know, we don't have cables that strong yet.))  Another example:
a long (hundreds of kilometers), thin structure in LEO, spinning in such
a way that the ends dip into the upper atmosphere at relatively low speed.

I don't want (yet) to simulate things like strength of materials, 
atmospheric friction, etc; just the mechanics of bodies with mass, shape,
velocity, and spin, influencing each other through gravity.  The ideal
form would be FORTRAN (Pascal) subroutines that accept an array of
current values and updates them for some small delta of time.  It doesn't
have to be accurate enough to predict planetary positions for the next
100,000 years, or efficient enough to handle all known solar bodies.

This is basically the beginnings of a "SF Writer's Workbench".  Given good
code, I'd hand-compile it for the 8087 to get the best speed I can.

(My "bridge across the gravity well" above isn't a very good analogy. Sorry.)
            -- Bob Munck, MITRE Corporation
               Munck@MITRE-Bedford.ARPA
               ...linus!bccvax!munck

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!denelcor!lmc
From: denelcor!lmc (Lyle McElhaney)
Subject: shuttle mission in July?
Date: 6 Jun 85 04:49:29 GMT
Organization: Denelcor, Aurora, Colorado

I had read here earlier this year that there was a mission scheduled on
or about July 9th. Is it still on? Please mail replies to me.
-- 
Lyle McElhaney
{hao, stcvax, brl-bmd, nbires, csu-cs} !denelcor!lmc

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!mcnc!rti-sel!rtp47!throopw
From: rtp47!throopw (Wayne Throop)
Subject: Re:  Meeting in orbit -- A thought experiment
Date: 5 Jun 85 22:34:54 GMT
Organization: Data General, RTP, NC

> From: Rick McGeer <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
>
> 	If you threw yourself into an escape orbit, you'd throw the rock into
> an impact orbit.  I think.
>
> 	Well, know, that's not quite true.  Snce MV = MV, if the rock was very
> large in mass compared with you (or if both you and the rock were in near-escape
> orbits), you'd merely throw the rock into a lower orbit.

Not quite.  The ground rules state that you eject some mass (a large
rock in this case) and acheive escape velocity.  Now then, how do you
get that the rock must be in a "lower orbit"?  Starting with both you
and the rock in the same orbit and assuming that the rock masses more
than you do, if you throw the rock into an escape orbit with a velocity
vector that points 180 degrees from your common vector, it seems to me
that both you and the rock are liberated.

Clearly, there are other situations where both you and the rock escape,
or you escape and the rock has a "higher orbit" or whatnot, but this
example shows with no quantitative calculations a situation that 1) has
you in an escape orbit as requested, and 2) has the rock in an escape
orbit also (which I take to be a "higher orbit").

Regarding "higher" or "lower" orbits, there is an interesting property
of the orbit that results from a single impulse, such as the one applied
to the rock in this situation.  When you have this situation:

  - object is in orbit.
  - single impulse is applied to object.
  - object is then in (a possibly different) orbit.

it must always be the case that *some* point on the new orbit is exactly
as "high" as some point in the old orbit.  In particular,

                        P <= X <= A

where P is the new perigee, A is the new apogee, and X is the height at
the point of impulse.  Note that even escape and impact orbits obey this
rule.  For escape orbits, A=infinity and P<=X, and for an impact orbit,
P=0 and A>=X.

(for the quick thinker: which of the above listed three conditions is
 not necessary to show the result P <= X <= A ?)
-- 
Wayne Throop at Data General, RTP, NC
<the-known-world>!mcnc!rti-sel!rtp47!throopw

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!princeton!astrovax!escher!doug
From: escher!doug (Douglas J Freyburger)
Subject: Re: Mars rumor
Date: 5 Jun 85 22:20:42 GMT
Organization: NASA/JPL, Pasadena, CA

> From: Robert.Aarhus@CMU-CS-SPICE
> 	At a national Metallurgical Science convention, it was
> 	announced that photographs from the Viking lander revealed
> 	what appeared to be a pyramidal rock formation with "a
> 	face on it" (this is where I became *real* skeptical);
> 
> 	Now a rock formation, perhaps, but a Pyramid with a face?
> 	Does anyone know if this thing has been observed (maybe just
> 	a photographic artifact?), and if so, why the media hasn't

	A couple months ago, the JPL employee's newssheet
"The JPL Universe" had a pictorial of several photos like
that.  A lunar crater with a smiley face, a little Mars
mountain with an ice-hockey goalie mask, cracks in Ganymede
shaped like a mouse, etc.  There were about a dozen all
told, and some had to be explained before you got the joke.
The best part of the Martian face is that one of the "eyes"
was a pixel drop-out during transmission, and the other was
a fairly recent crater.  Computer image enhancement had
sharpened one, and blurred the other.  The algorthyms do
that to bit drop-outs usually.

	The claim of a "Great Pyramid" is one I haven't
heard about yet, though.  Sounds like fun.  Let's go play
Napolean, and strip off the top layer of limestone as
convient building material for our colonies housing!

DOUG@JPL-VLSI, doug@aerospace, ...!trwrb!escher!doug, etc.
Douglas J Freyburger, JPL 171-243, Pasadena, CA 91109

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!utastro!ethan
From: utastro!ethan (Ethan Vishniac)
Subject: Re: Re: twin paradox
Date: 6 Jun 85 22:00:56 GMT
Organization: U. Texas, Astronomy, Austin, TX

> From: Charles.Fineman@CMU-CS-SPICE
> 
> > The key to the twin paradox is that the travelling twin goes on a ROUND
> > TRIP, so his frame of reference is an ACCELERATED FRAME (you cannot
> > return to Earth without changing direction, and you cannot change
> > direction without acceleration) whereas the stationary twin has an
> > INERTIAL FRAME. This is what makes their frames of reference
> > non-equivalent, thereby they will experience time differently. 
> 
> What if we assume that the universe is closed? Then it would be possible to 
> return to earth without changing your accelration. What happens then?

Propagation in curved space requires the application of General Relativity.
In this case the answer is that it isn't possible to circumnavigate
the universe travelling at less than the speed of light between the
the Big Bang and the Big Crunch (chomp).  However travelling *at*
the speed of light it is just possible.  In which case no time at
all passes for the traveler and the entire history of the universe
goes by for the stay at home.  Why?  Well basically the equivalence
of all uniformly moving frames does not apply in a curved space.
All that you are guaranteed is that *locally* the laws of physics
will be the same for the two.  However, the shape and evolution
of the universe are perceived differently by the two observers.
-- 

"Don't argue with a fool.      Ethan Vishniac
 Borrow his money."            {charm,ut-sally,ut-ngp,noao}!utastro!ethan
                               Department of Astronomy
                               University of Texas

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!pesnta!pertec!felix!tom
From: felix!tom (Tom Lockwood)
Subject: What's happening on the solstice?
Date: 4 Jun 85 16:09:32 GMT
Organization: FileNet Corp., Costa Mesa, Ca.

I heard on an (unknown name) PBS television show that the solstice will
occur on June 21 at 6:44 a.m. EST.  And there is something going on
which everyone can be involved.  Would this be some kind of
personal sighting in which the data would be collected?

Tom Lockwood
FileNet Corp.
Costa Mesa, Ca.
"Or, do we hop on one foot and pat our head?"

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #182
*******************

08-Jun-85  0351	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #183    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 183

Today's Topics:
			general space information
			     Re: Twin Paradox
			  planetary computations
			Mock Countdown Successful
			      Robert Forward
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <crash!usiiden!markf@Nosc>
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 85 12:51:12 PDT
To: crash!noscvax!space@mit-mc
Subject: general space information

From: NASA/News Service
Subj: heat dissipation technology

Even with long term manned presence in space still in its infancy, a host
of promising opportunities have been identified which employ the natural
vacuum and microgravity conditions available in space.

A few problems also have been discovered and NASA's Lewis Res Center is
addressing one of the particularly troublesome ones: how to dissipate heat
that builds up inside a spacecraft so that a constant and livable
temperature can be maintained for the astronauts who must live and work
onboard.

Currently, heat removal is accomplished through the use of a heavy, bulky,
rigid metal heat transfer system.

New technology being developed by Lewis would use the surface of a liquid
coolant to radiate away excess heat, thus saving as much as 90 percent of
the current hardware weight. And weight is an expensive commodity in space
flight operations.

Called a liquid droplet radiator, the concept is based on exposing a
moving stream of hot droplets, the diameter of a human hair, directly into
space, allowing the heat to radiate from the surface of the droplets. The
droplets would be ejected from a generator to a collector. At the
collector, the droplets would rejoin to for a liquid, in much the same way
that droplets of window spray reunite to become a liquid on the window
surface. The coolant then would be recirculated and reused. Essential is
selection or development of a heat transfer fluid with proper vapor
pressure and sufficient long life to permit extended reuse.

Crucial has been development of micromachining to produce holes as small
as .002 inches in diam.

 ** Debra Rahn HQ and John M. Shaw
Lewis Res Center.
**********************

From: NASA/News Service
Subj: Sci & Tech Info Fac

RMS Associates, Landover, MD., has been selected for negotiations leading
to award of a contract for the operation and maintenance of the NASA
scientific and technical information facility (STIF), lcoated near the
Baltimore/ Washington International Airport, Baltimore, MD.

The 1 yr. contract will commence July 1, 1985, preceded by a 1 month phase
in period. The contract will include provisions for two 1 yr priced option
extensions  Two additional 1 yr unpriced options are anticipated. The RMS
Associates' estiamted value of the 1 yr contract is approximately $5
million, with a total of approximately $15 million for the first 3 yrs.

The contractor will be responsible for:  acquiring and processing
documents and data approved by NASA for entry into the NASA collection;
cataloging, abstracting, indexing and announcing these materials;
providing dissemination service; offering a supporting reference service;
compiling specialized bibliographies; and providing other technical
support.

NASA STIF is responsible for acquiring, organizing, processing and storing
worldwide aerospace information including published articles, papers,
books and reports.

Other firms submitting proposals were Planning Research Corp./Government
Information Systems, McLean, VA., the Incumbent Systems Development Corp.,
McLean, VA.; M/A-COM, Sigma Data Services Corp., Rockville, MD.; and
Science Management Corp., Landover, MD.

 ** Barbara Selby HQ
*****************

From: NASA/News Service
Subj: Structural Framework - Space Station

NASA has selected McDonnell Douglas Astronautics Co., a California
division of McDonnell Douglas Corp., St. Louis, and Rockwell Intl., Space
Station Systems Division, Downey, Calif., for fixed price awards for
definition and preliminary design (phase b) of the structural framework
and other elements of a permanently manned space station.

The contracts will be managed by NASA's Johnson Space Center, Houston.
work on the contracts will extend for 21 months.  Industry teams selected
for negotiations for the definition and preliminary design of other space
station elements were announced by NASA on march 14.

The Johnson contracts will cover definition and preliminary design of the
structural framework to which the various elements of the space station
will be attatched; interface between the space station and the space
shuttle; mechanisms such as the remote manipulator systems; attitude
control, thermal control, communications and data management systems; plan
for equipping a module with sleeping quarters, wardroom and galley; and
plan for extravehicular activity. the request for proposals indicated the
value of each of the contracts could be $27 million.

In 1984, NASA began the development of a permanently manned space station
pursuant to the directive in the state of the union address from President
Reagan.

 ** Barbara Selby HQ.
***********

From: NASA/News Service
Subj: space astronomy experiments

NASA has selected the first participants in a program to assimilate the
discoveries from a series of space astronomy experiments into a
comprehensive modern astrophysical theory.  The new reserch is expected to
generate more effective use of future experiments including the hubble
space telescope, the gamma ray observatory, the solar optical telescope
and similar projects still in planning.

Seven groups were selected- 49 proposals from 80 institutions, involving
nearly 300 people - making competition truly national in scope.

Dr. R. McCray and a team from U. of Colorado will study detailed ways in
which spectra form in a variety of astrophysical sources such as stars,
supernovae and active galactic nuclei.  Spectra, or the pattern of
radiation from these sources, carry information about the physical
conditions of the object.  The spectra includes radio, infrared, optical,
uv and x-ray radiation.

Dr. J. Ostriker and colleagues from Princeton U. will analyze the most
distant observable parts of the universe.  Because of the finite speed of
light, distant objects are seen as they existed long ago.  Looking back in
time by observing light from very distant galaxies and quasars, scientists
can study the "big bang" that theoretically occurred in the early history
of the universe.

The sun will be studied by a team from Yale U., led by Dr. P.  deMarque.
They will develop computer models of the sun - magnetic fields, sun spots,
solar flares and solar wind.  Dr. Roger Chevalier and a team from the
U. of VA. will study the very hot gases that appear to surround clusters
of galaxies, individual galaxies and supernova remnants.  The team will
seek to understand the origin and motion of the gas as well as its effect
on the development of galaxies.

Dr. Ronald Taam and colleagues from Northwestern U. will study the origin
of rapid bursts of high energy radiation from neutron stars and globular
clusters. they hope to model the ignition, nuclear evolution and
propagation of burning fronts on surfaces of neutron stars and to
understand the nature of hot plasma confinement in magnetic fields near
such subjects.

Dr. David Black heads a scientific team from NASA's AMES Research Center,
Mountain View, Calif. and the U. of CA., Santa Cruz and Berkeley campuses,
that will investigate various physical and chemical prosesses involved in
the formation of stars.  They will concentrate on the stars' origins in
giant molecular clouds in interstellar space and the protostellar /
protoplanetary disk-shaped nebulae surrounding fledgling stars.

A series of questions regarding star and planet formation will be studied
by a team of scientists from the U. of Arizona, headed by Dr. Simon White.
their research will include properties of star forming regions, galaxy
formation and evolution. they will use methods from the study of
hydrodynamics, plasma physics, radiative transfer, atomic and molecular
physics and physical cosmology.

Most of the teams will use supercomputers in their studies.  The
researchers will be brought together in 1986 to exchange information and
to foster a greater understanding of the advances that science has
achieved.

 ** Leon Perry HQ
************************

From: NASA/News Service
Subj: water hyacinth a new image

The water hyacinth, long fought as a weed that clogged streams and lakes,
is destined to become a force in the battle against water polution as a
result of NASA research.  Brought to the U.S. in 1884 by the Japanese as
part of the New Orleans cotton states expo.  The plants were given away as
souvenirs and thrown away into drainage canals.  The plant grew at an
explosive rate.  Studies now show that under controlled conditions the
hyzcinth is ideal for domestic and industrial water purification.  Ground
into fertilizer they can be used to produce biogas and fiber to produce
large quantities of fresh water.  Dr. Billy Wolverton PhD, sen res sci,
and Rebecca Mcdonald, res chem, NASA nat spc tech lab found in their
studies the hyacinth also shows promise for partially supplying oxygen,
food, pure water and waste treatment in space.  A waste water treatment
system using the research is in operation at NSTL in Fla, TX, & CA.  An
advanced natural waste water process that combines anaerobic microbial
filter technology with the vascular plant wastewater treatment technology
to produce an efficient hybrid system has been developed.  The systems has
the advantage that wastewater is exposed to the atmosphere only after
treatment, higher chemical concentrations can be tolerated because of the
higher surface microbial filter.  Recent concerns about the discharge of
phenol were handled by the new technique.  Thanks to NASA research, the
dreaded water hyacinth is forming a new image.  Instead of the
uncontrollable aquatic monster it has been for a hundred years, it is
emerging as a large scale candidate for large scale nutrient removal and
water purification systems.  The hyacinth will help man sustain an
acceptable quality of life here on earth and in the remoteness of space.

 ** Leon Perry HQ.        
*********************

From: NASA/News Service
Subj: NASA laser finds use in medicine

NASA has adopted a laser originally designed to measure gases in the
atmosphere to the task of cleaning out clogged arteries without harming
the walls of the blood vessels.  The technique could eliminate some
coronary bypass surgery.

Physicians at La Cedar Sinai Med Center and laser, JPL scientists teamed
together to develop the system.

Physicians Warren Grundfest, Frank Litvack & James Forrester, conducting
research into the potential of lasers in cardiology, sought a more precise
& cooler laser than those in use by medicine.

The excimer developed by James Laudenslager, Thomas Pacala, Stuart
Mcdermid and David Rider met the need.  Working with physician and fiber
optics consultant Dr. Tsvi Goldenberg, the team refined the laser for
delicate cardiovascular cleaning.

Lasers are used in many medical applications requiring precision cutting
or welding.  Use in cardiovascular research is new since misdirection can
perforate delicate artery walls...tissue cells can withstand up to 154
degrees f. the excimer laser never reacher higher than 149 f (428-500 f
other lasers).  Glass magnetic switched (JPL), the xenon chloride excimer
laser can be made to produce a uniform beam of energy that can be pulsed
from 10 to 200 billionths of a second threading a 1.5 mm catheter through
coronary arteries; the laser is one of 3 bundles of fibers.  Another
shines a light; a third is a lens for video pictures of the inside of the
artery.  Clear fluid is used to flush the artery of blood, allowing a
clearer picture.  Typical tests have taken 2 minutes.  While properly
cautious, the researchers are encouraged by initial testing on animals,
cadavers and removed arteries of heart patients.

 ** Azeezaly Jaffer HQ.
******************

From: NASA/News Service
Subj: NASA helps archaelogy

Satellite imaging and remote sensing technology will be used to probe the
tropical andean jungles for archaelogical remains in peru's rio abiseo
natl park.

NASA's nat spc technology lab (nstl) in Mississippi, will colaborate in
the project with the anthropology dept. of the U. of Colorado.

Jerry Hlass, Nstl Center Dir. and Dr. Hearth, kir of spc sci and tech for
U. of C, have signed a memorandum of understanding for the investigation.

Archeological interests in the park include the ancient site of gran
patajen, the subtropical cloud forest and the park's diverse ecology.
Data from landsat earth resources satellite will be combined with
information gathered by a specially equipped aircraft from nstl.

Sophisticated instrumentation will allow researchers to "see" through the
dense vegetation to locate evidence of past settlements in the now
uninhabited region.  Interesting geographical features and variations in
vegetation may be observed and mapped.

When cultural resources are identified through image analysis of the 1,060
square miles, it will be checked out on the ground.

NASA's interest is expansion of the use of space technology.

Thomas Sever, a NASA remote sensing specialist and archeologist at nstl,
will provide support for 1 year.  Starting in June will be NASA, the
university and a remote sensing team at peru's nat. agrarian U. in Lima.

The project is one of three archeological investigations being supported
by NASA. others are volcanic destruction of cities and vegetation in Costa
Rica; and support of the Richard Leaky foundation in their search for
evidence of human evolution in Kenya, Africa.

 ** Jim Kukowski HQ and Mack Herring NSTL
*******

From: NASA/News Service
Subj: satellite rescue planned

NASA and hughes aircraft company have agreed to develop jointly plans for
a space shuttle mission to attempt to salvage the hughes leasat 3
satellite in orbit. the technically complex salvage attempt will provide
an opportunity to extend the shuttle's demonstrated capability to
rendezvous with and salvage satellites in space.

The salvage attempt will take place under the terms of an agreement being
negotiated by NASA and hughes communications, inc.

Negotiations with the underwriters insuring leasat 3 have been conducted
by Hughes in N.Y. and London.  Agreement has been reached with Lloyd's and
other european underwriters to proceed with the attempted salvage.
Negotiations are continuing with the american underwriters.

The mission is presently planned for shuttle flight 51-I (targeted for Aug
24).  This date marks the opening of the window for rendezvous with leasat.

The leasat 3 satellite is currently drifting in low earth orbit without
command or telemetry capability.

No specific cause for the satellites failure has been determined.  The
salvage plan involves modification of the satellite during rendezvous by
two of the shuttle crew to permit ground command of the satellite.  The
modification will bypass all hardware likely to have been the cause of the
failure.

In its dormant state the satellite is experiencing temperatures well below
the design and test limits of the liquid and solid propellent system,
electronics unit, batteries and other components.  This and other factors
limit the chances of success.

LEASAT 4 will be launched during the same flight.  A success for 3 and 4
would fulfill hughes commitments to the navy.

 ** Sarah Keegan HQ and Elizabeth Hess Hughes Communication, Inc.
********************

From: NCAR Information
Subj: wimps and the solar mystery

You wouldn't expect that wimp's could effect anything as powerful as the
sun, but astrophysicists at NCAR and Univ of Calif at Santa Cruz think
otherwise.  They have found that smidgen of wimps - weakly interacting
massive particles - can alter the sun's central conditions, and in doing
so could resolve a puzzle that has bedeviled astronomers for years.

The findings have recently become more than just a scientific curiousity
because developments in particle physics suggest that wimpy particles may
indeed exist.  If so, wimps offer an explanation for the shortage of
neutrinos coming from the sun.  previously a total mystery. UC Prof of
Astronomy and Astrophysics, John Faulkner, along with Ronald Gilliland,
NCAR astronomer, created detailed computer models of the sun and
demonstrated that a small number of wimps effectively lowers the
temperature at the sun's center. this in turn inhibits one of the nuclear
reactions taking place deep inside the sun, one that is important because
it produces the brand of neutrinos that we can detect here on earth.

Neutrinos, so called "ghost particles" interact so seldom with other
matter that they can zip through millions of miles of solid material.
those released by the sun's nuclear reactions stream clean out of the sun
and off into space, passing through nearly everything they encounter.

By contrast, photons - particles of light - bounce around inside the sun
for millions of years before reaching the sun's surface and escaping to
space.

Astronomers have detected only one third as many solar neutrinos as their
theories predict, but it isn't for lack of looking.  For almost two
decades a special neutrino detector has sat deep in a gold mine in
South Dakota, where it is protected from extraneous radiation.

"The solar neutrino telescope acts on earth as a thermometer for the
center of the sun". it consists of 100,000 gallons of perchlor-ethylene, a
cleaning solvent.  Solar neutrinos hitting it result in a chlorine atom
changing to argon.  These are later counted.  The large volume is to grab
some of the rare interacting neutrinos. Eexperiments always spot fewer
than are predicted by theories of the sun's nuclear reactions, perplexing
astronomers.

The wimp which only effects the center of the sun and does not carry
disastrous consequences for other regions is a potential answer.  Wimps
can travel partway from the sun's center before banging into another
particle.  they offer a means of redistribution of the energy within the
sun.

By picking up energy in the extreme conditions and depositing it in a
shallower region, they can smooth out the sharp peak in temperature that
computer models indicate exists in the sun's innermost volume.  A small
swing in temperature greatly effects nuclear reactions producing neutrinos
detectable on the earth.  The result is less neutrinos on the earth
reconciling theory and observation.

Particle physicist, have recently proposed "supersymmetry theories" that
predict particles that would match the wimp.  In particular the "photino",
supersymmetrical to the photon is a potential wimp.  Spurred by these and
other findings, Faulkner and Gilliland have submitted their calculations
to the astrophysical journal.

 ** John Gustafson Lick Observatory and Joan Frisch NCAR
************************

>from the intercomex bulletin board (303)-367-1935 
note: please forgive the all caps, this information comes from a general
information board which is made available to large and small computer users
at no cost.. because of this messages are only available in all caps...this
information is being put into the network inorder to not just take information
from the net... i hope it is worthwhile enough to bear with the all caps m.f

return adress:crash!usiiden!markf@nosc

[I have fixed up the capitalization of this a bit. -The Moderator]

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!noao!terak!doug
From: terak!doug (Doug Pardee)
Subject: Re: Twin Paradox
Date: 6 Jun 85 16:43:53 GMT
Organization: Terak Corporation, Scottsdale, AZ, USA

Here's what you've been waiting for, comments from someone who doesn't
have any real knowledge of the subject...

What I had heard was that the key is "acceleration".  Acceleration is
not relative.  Although you can't tell visually whether you are
acclerating away from a point, or it's accelerating away from you, or
some combinations of accelerations is at work, you can certainly tell
if you're accelerating, and how much, by the G-forces that you feel.

Is it not the acceleration that causes the change in time reference?
-- 
Doug Pardee -- Terak Corp. -- !{ihnp4,seismo,decvax}!noao!terak!doug
               ^^^^^--- soon to be CalComp

------------------------------

Date:     Fri, 7 Jun 85 9:10:12 EDT
From:     Scott A. Knudsen (MISD-PMD) <sknudsen@Ardc.ARPA>
To:       space@Mit-Mc.ARPA
cc:       sknudsen@Ardc.ARPA
Subject:  planetary computations

	I know this is not a discussion type submission, but I would appreciate 
any information on calculating the positions of the planets( even only the 
major ones) so that I could write a program for these.
			Scott Knudsen (sknudsen@ardc.arpa)

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Mock Countdown Successful
Date: 6 Jun 85 23:41:42 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The crew of the Discovery today successfully completed a mock countdown in
preparation for the 17 June launch.  Lift off is scheduled for 0733 EDT.
Landing is set at EAFB on 24 June.

------------------------------

Date:           Fri, 7 Jun 85 22:22:21 PDT
From:           Richard K. Jennings <jennings@AEROSPACE.ARPA>
To:             space@mit-mc
Subject:        Robert Forward

	Several comments have been made to Robert Forwards ideas on
Space Travel, and that he is the USAF's leading authority on this
matter.  I am not sure that he is the USAF's leading authority on
this matter, but he sure is prolific.
	Recently I sent away to a company claiming information on
antigravity drives.  Based upon their information, I became 
interested enough to write a paper on antigravity drives for one
of my courses at AFIT.  Robert Forward has written several articles
on these as well, mainly in physical journals, and I think he had
an article in Omni a few years back.  The basic consensus of the literature I dug
up was that antigravity (not antimatter) drives *are* physically
possible, and an effort such as that required to usher in nuclear
weapons might yield fruitful results.

	If anybody out there was around in the late 50's, just
about *all* the big defense contractors had efforts in this area,
under the heading "electrogravitics" (or something close).

Richard Jennings
AF Satellite Control Facility
arpa: jennings@aerospace

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #183
*******************

09-Jun-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #184    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 184

Today's Topics:
			       Launch Loops
				Starprobe
				      
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8 Jun 85 16:06:44 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Launch Loops
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

If Keith Lofstrom is still around, I'd like to let him know his name just
showed up in Frederick Pohl's "Heechee Rendezvous" as the late twentieth
century inventor of the very important Lofstrom Loop. Nice to know you're
famous in future history, Keith?

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jun 85 16:16:46 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Starprobe
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

On the intersteller probe problem, there seem to be some very interesting
ideas floating around. Has anybody considered setting it up as a private
venture with largely volunteer labor and donated equipment? I will agree in
advance that it may not be possible (under our current system) of doing it
TOTALLY this way, but I'll bet that ALL the design work, the probe
construction and instrumentation and the orbital calculations could be done
by (pun intended) moonlighting. Propulsion system construction and testing
would probably require government funding simply because of the NATURE of
the technologies involved, as percieved by the DOD.

But lets try a thought experiment.

You guys at Los Alamos: start designing the engine. You know how to do it
and you've got the resources laying around at your finger tips, whether it
be antimatter, pellet fusion or lasers for the sail. If it's a sail, talk
the guys over at JPL: I think a bunch of them are ALREADY moonlighting with
WSF working on sails.

AMES: I'll bet there are a few of you who know how to get access to big
machines for REAL course calculations. And if you need better data on the
intersteller navigation, I'm sure there are more than a few astronmers on
this net with access to the largest scopes and the most sensitive
instruments.

Not to mention all the planetary people out there who certainly know
EXACTLY what instrumentation they'd want to send to another star system
(preferably another solar system). I suspect we'll have some good targets
within a few years at the current rate of progress in the search for
extrasolar planets. Hopefully immediately after the MAP flies.

And I'll bet there'd be a few particle physicists around who'd love to work
on the problem and run a few seriptitious tests tagged onto what is
otherwise a grant on pure research.

Coordination might be somewhat of a problem, but the advantage of a network
is that you can quickly come to see who really knows what is going on, so I
suspect an organization would form itself by consensus. Mistakes
get corrected by someone else just simply doing the work and replacing the
erroneously selected major node, once again by consensus. Path redundancy
and dynamic reconfiguration are pretty much automatic within networks of
human beings.

The possibilities are endless.

I might add that there is a group of us in Pittsburgh trying to encourage
exactly this kind of thinking. Stop talking about these things and waiting
for big brother to do them, and start networking yourselves and finding out
just how much power and resources a network has at it's disposal. It can be
awesome. Without the constraints of beauracracy, you can probably move
faster moonlighting that an old fashioned hierarchical organization can
operate with full time employees. You also gain a great deal of otherwise
lost time by the fact that politics are a waste of time on a network,
because those who waste their time on it simply get bypassed and ignored, as
may soon happen to our entire government beauracracy. In large hierarchical
organizations, large numbers of employees spend nearly full time efforts on
internal politics. They are able to do so because they stand astride
information channels and are able to feed information and responsibility
when and where it will do them the most good. In voluntary networks such
control of information and responsibilities is not possible. I firmly
believe we are about to see the birth of (take a deep breath) pseudo-random
self-organizing human systems with goal-seeking behavior. Those who believe
in centralized power will not believe such are possible until it is too late
for them to save the old ways. Even if you tell such people what is coming
they won't give it credence, so there is no worry in operating openly.

Admittedly there is a shortcoming in that transmission of blueprints and
diagrams is not easily available. But such should not be long in coming. If
not on ARPA, then on some of the PC nets that are rapidly interconnecting
the country. We in Pittsburgh L5 are currently working on such a private
network (NOT with graphics!!!!) as it is our feeling that the ARPANET, as a
government funded operation, may not be the appropriate place for such
private research networks. It is also not a secure network, in the sense of
providing for guaranteed private mail transfers between individuals. 

I will say, (sadly) that 5 years is too short a timeframe for getting a
starprobe launched. But it's not too early to start looking at something
like this. I suspect the computer and communications infrastructure required
for a distributed all volunteer star probe R&D team is really just around
the corner.

I'd propose the following as a 'run it up the flagpole' schedule:

	1985-1987:	Creation of networked design team
			Design/creation of tools and procedures for
			 distributed project management
			Generation of requirements document
			Research on new technology propulsion systems

	1988-1990:	Total switchover to private network
			Selection of target star
				Detail study/evaluation of possible
				 orbits/courses to target(s)
			Finalize probe design
				Begin collecting/building probe
				 instrumentation by scrounging.
				 (ie. beg/borrow/ahem)
			Semi Coordinated tests of concepts identified
			 in earlier theoretical studies of new technology
			 propulsion systems. Identify what is required
			 for proof-of-concept.
	1990-1993	Finalize decision on propulsion system
			Begin construction of probes, hopefully with
			 foundation grants and tax writeoff money from large
			 corporations.
			Begin lobbying congress for full scale test of
			selected engine. This is possibly the most difficult
			phase, because NASA will prefer to do all the
			research over again, at massive cost, rather than
			build and test from the blueprints. I'd love
			suggestions since this is the most SF part of the
			whole scheme.
	1993-1998	Construction and testing of full scale engine
			prototypes.
	1998-2000	Mating of probe with propulsion system and launch.

This is a straw man schedule, so have fun with it.

You don't need orders from on high, you only need to decide it is important.
Then you start doing it, a free association of free scientists and
engineers. Don't try to convince the Proxmire's of the world. Screw them and
do it yourself.

As for myself, I am particular interested in, and in fact have a volunteer
team already looking at the segment noted as:

			Design/creation of tools and procedures for
			 distributed project management

Any ideas in this area are extremely welcome. Please cc: garbee@cmu-cs-g
on anything in this area.

					Ad Astra!!!
					Dale Amon

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jun 85 16:31:36 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: 
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #184
*******************

11-Jun-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #185    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 185

Today's Topics:
		       Re: shuttle mission in July?
			      Eyefelt Thanks
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!uwvax!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Re: shuttle mission in July?
Date: 10 Jun 85 03:50:03 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

There is a launch scheduled for 14 July.

------------------------------

Date: Mon 10 Jun 85 22:11:04-EDT
From: FIRTH@TL-20B.ARPA
Subject: Eyefelt Thanks
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

Thanks to our Moderator, for changing the NASA messages
into readable lower-case text.

Since those guys are wedded to such obsolete technology
as ASR-33 teletypes and space propulsion systems that
move by throwing stuff out the back, couldn't we at least
cobble together a computer program to mitigate the former
difficulty?

Robert Firth

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #185
*******************

12-Jun-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #186    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 186

Today's Topics:
		       Re: SPACE Digest V5 #185    
			general space information
			       Twin Paradox
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue 11 Jun 85 11:12:47-EDT
From: "J. Noel Chiappa" <JNC@MIT-XX.ARPA>
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #185    
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: JNC@MIT-XX.ARPA


	"obsolete technology as ... space propulsion systems that
	move by throwing stuff out the back"

	Ahem. If you know of some way to move something that DOESN'T
involve 'throwing something off the back' (including photons), please
step up and collect your Nobel prize (not to mention one trillion stars
from the Outsiders!).
	(I except using electro-magnetic repulsion/attraction drives;
such things are possible now, albeit difficult. We have no way to
create charge and no magnetic monopoles; dipoles generate little push
in fields with little gradient. I would think that the main thing is
that the E/M fields in space are too irregular to use as something to
push against.)
	You're right; dragging up a lot of mass just to throw it
off the back end is the Wrong Thing, but at the moment it's still
the only thing....

	Noel

------------------------------

From: <crash!usiiden!markf@Nosc>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 85 11:44:54 PDT
To: crash!noscvax!space@mit-mc
Subject: general space information

FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: NASA AND ESA
NASA administrator James Beggs and the Director General of the
European Space Agency (ESA), Dr. Reimar Luest, signed a  
memorandum of understanding for the conduct of a cooperative  
program concerning detailed  definition and preliminary design 
(PHASE B) of a permanently manned space station. This follows 
the invitation of the President of the U.S. to, Europe, Canada,
and  Japan to cooperate in the development, operation and use 
of the permanently manned space station. * The agreement
provides for interaction  and information exchange during the
next 2 years. ESA will Study a pressurized module that could
be used as a manned  laboratory, free flying experiment
platforms for both low  inclination and polar orbits with
electric power and cooling and stabilizing   systems, and a
resources module. ESA studies also will cover ground
facilities for mission preparation and support, and a data
transmission system. * The cost of the Phase B studies carried
out by European industry under ESA management, together with
corresponding technology program, amounts to 80 million  
accounting units. At 1985 exchange rates, one accounting unit 
equals 80 cents, bringing the current estimate to $64 million.
NASA has already signed agreements with Canada and Japan. *  
Cooperation during the development, operations and utilization
phase will require separate agreements. * M. WAGGONER HQ
---------------------
FROM: NASA/NEWS SERVICE
SUBJ: GOES CONTRACTOR
NASA has selected Ford Aerospace and Communications Corp. to  
negotiate a cost plus award fee contract for the next
generation of  geostationary operational environmental
satellites (GOES). *
FORD'S total proposed cost for the basic three spacecraft
effort (GOES I, J AND K) and for a two spacecraft option (GOES
L AND M) is approximately $221 million. The contract will
provide for a series  of GOES satellite systems, each with a 5
YR design life.*  Launch of the first GOES satellite in the 
new series is scheduled for late 1989. * The statement of work
covers the satellite bus imaging, sounding and space
environment monitor instruments; PLS  necessary flight support
equipment and services to effect successful deployment of 
the spacecraft into geosynchronous orbit from  the Shuttle. *
It also includes operations ground equipment and support to 
ensure compatibility of the spacecraft system with established
ground systems operated by NOAA. The spacecraft will provide 
for the continuation of NOAA's Geostationary Operational  
Environmental Satellite Program in the 1990-2000 era. * A
major subcontractor on the project, ITT Aerospace Corp. will
produce the imaging and sounding instruments. * NASA Goddard
SFC has been  assigned project responsibility. * Leon Perry HQ
& J. ELLIOT GSF
------------
from the Intercomex Bulletin Board (303)-3671935
Mark Felton  crash!usiiden!markf@nosc

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-lebeef!seltzer
From: seltzer@lebeef.DEC
Subject: Twin Paradox
Date: 11 Jun 85 13:40:20 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network

"accelerated (non-inertial) reference frames don't count in special
relativity"

But the Earth, revolving around the Sun, is an accelerated reference
frame.  Isn't it?

So what does count?  Has a human being ever been anywhere that would
be considered an inertial reference frame?

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #186
*******************

13-Jun-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #187    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 187

Today's Topics:
			 Los Alamos and antigrav
		      "Throwing Stuff Out The Back"
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 12 Jun 85 17:59:02 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Los Alamos and antigrav
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

I would appreciate it if someone at Los Alamos would comment on the theory
behind an experiment they are reported to be in progress on. The report
was in the 6/10 Space Calendar, and states that they are going to look for
antigravity effects on antiprotons. The antiprotons will be cooled to near
absolute zero and slowly bled into a test chamber where they will be
examined for subtle gravitational effects.

Is this related to supersymmetry theories, or is it just thought the a time
reversed particle should show a time reversed reaction to a gravitational
field (why I wouldn't pretend to guess).

I guess I'm really asking, do you guys have a good reason for thinking there
might REALLY be such an effect, or is it a "What the hell, try it and see
what happens" type of experiment?

------------------------------

Date:           Wed, 12 Jun 85 20:01:48 PDT
From:           Richard K. Jennings <jennings@AEROSPACE.ARPA>
To:             space@mit-mc
Subject:        "Throwing Stuff Out The Back"

	If we use a Hydrogen (or perhaps stellar) ramjet, we wouldn't
have to carry the mass a long.  Barring an enlighted government which
understands, and funds, the importance of electrogravitics, the only
way man can approach light speed in the near future is by some type
of ram-jet technology.
	For the record, another approach worth consideration is to 
build a huge solar sail which is very rugged and resistant to heat,
and fly very close to the sun.  Another technique which does not
require the expenditure of ship energy to accelerate propellant.
	I would conclude that in the context of this star probe
discussion, "throwing stuff out the back" (that you have carried along)
*is* obsolete in contrast to Noel Chiappa's comments.

Rich.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #187
*******************

14-Jun-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #188    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 188

Today's Topics:
			     Space propulsion
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu 13 Jun 85 10:00:34-EDT
From: FIRTH@TL-20B.ARPA
Subject: Space propulsion
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: evans@TL-20B.ARPA, firth@TL-20B.ARPA

Here is a short list of ideas for space propulsion systems
that don't rely on taking stuff along and throwing it out
the back.  They range from the serious to the silly, and they
are all based on recollections of other people's work.

(1) Dean drive.  The assumption is that Newton's Third Law is
    wrong, and some combination of cams, levers, balls, cogwheels
    and electric drills will exhibit spontaneous motion.  The
    problem is that people seem to have studied Dean drives quite
    extensively and they really don't work.  This represents in
    my view the "silly" end of the spectrum

All other systems rely on using something already out there.  We
have four choices

(2) Bussard ramjet.  That is, we use the mass found in space as fuel
    or reaction mass.  The main problems are that the mass so dilute
    that we need fairly large scoops to collect it.  But that is an
    engineering problem, not one of principle.  This is I think the
    system most likely to work.

(3) Light sail.  The trouble is, there isn't enough light.  We need
    either an enormous sail or some space-based lasers.  I don't like
    the idea of space-based lasers - too dangerous and too much a
    "brute force" solution.

(4) Magnetic propulsion.  Useful only for the inner system, ie within
    the solar magnetosphere.  The energy is there, it's just a question
    of harnessing it somehow.

(5) Gravitic propulsion.  This one is really way out.  Currently, we have
    absolutely no idea how to interact with a gravity field in any
    controlled manner.  The interaction must be possible - inded, Hawking
    radiation is created by the breakdown of the vacuum under intense
    gravitic stress - but we lack an adequate theory.  Also, it's not
    clear what the energy flux would be.  If you believe Mach's principle,
    then a ship could use the entire mass of the universe to power a
    gravity drive.

Frankly, I'd like to see work on all four of the above.  Or do we wait
for an outsider ship to sell us one in exchange for Jupiter?

Robert Firth

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #188
*******************

15-Jun-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #189    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 189

Today's Topics:
			 SPACE Digest V5 #188    
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1985  11:18 EDT
From: MINSKY%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA
To:   Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Cc:   SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject: SPACE Digest V5 #188    

The Dean Drive was a mistake.  Shortly after it was described, I
magnified a photograph of it and identified the model number of the
Sears Roebuck bathroom scale used to measure the 15% reduction in
weight of the equipment when it was turned on and started vibrating.
Roland Silver, Claude Shannon, and I bought the same model scale and
discovered that it had a diode-like mechanical linkage between the
meter and the platform.  It was easy to stand on the same scale and
reduce one's own weight by shaking one's fist up and down.

We explained all this to John Campbell, editor of Astounding Magazine,
who had published the original announcement.  He was angry and said
that conventional scientists would always stand in the way of
progress.

--  minsky

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #189
*******************

16-Jun-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #190    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 190

Today's Topics:
			  Antigravity References
			 Disocvery Rolled to Pad
			      Re: Mars rumor
		 Re: Wanted: orbital mechanics program(s)
			     Re: Twin paradox
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:           Sat, 15 Jun 85 12:37:58 PDT
From:           Richard K. Jennings <jennings@AEROSPACE.ARPA>
To:             space@mit-mc
Subject:        Antigravity References


Conventional Science does not completely preclude antigravitic devices.
Some of the following references into the field are to literature
published by researchers, both theoretical and applied, who admit
to its possibility.

 

             *** Some References on Antigravity  ***             
 
1.  Allais, Maurice FC (Director of Research, Centre National de 
la Recherche Scientifique, Ecole Nationale Superieur des Mines, 
Paris) "Should the Laws of Gravitation be Reconsidered?", 
Aero/Space Engineering, Sept 1959 p46-52, Oct 1959 p51-55, Nov 
1959 p55.  This describes in some detail some experiments done by 
the author which seem to indicate that gravity oscillates with a 
period of 24 hours, 50 minutes with a magnitude of 10e-6g.  He 
then takes this result and, with other referenced anomalies, 
attempts to make the case that a new theory of gravity should be 
developed.  His experimental results are either forged or are 
very interesting.  Since he seems unaware of relativistic 
considerations, his analysis is interesting but benign.
 
2.  Cleaver, AV FRAeS Fellow (Assistant Cheif Engineer, Aero 
Engine Division, Rolls Royce Ltd) "Electro-Gravitics: What it is 
or might be", Journal of the British Interplanetary Society, Vol 
16, No2, Apr-Jun 1957 p84-94.  This is the response of a crusty 
old Brit to a radical new concept from the "Americans" which just 
might be possible but is much more apt to be much ado about 
nothing.  This article does catalog some of the American 
participants.
 
3.  Ebershaw, Bernard C. (Mailorder Publisher) Antigravity 
Propulsion Devices, R&D Associates Inc (PO Box S73, Concord NC 
28025), 1980.  Consists of a brief enumeration of some of the 
ideas behind antigravity devices, a bibliography, and copies of 
some of the better known antigravity patents.
 
4.  Forward, Robert L. (Hughes Research Laboratories, Malibu CA) 
"Guidelines to Antigravity", American Journal of Physics, Vol 31, 
Mar 1963 p166-70.  This author is quite prolific, and has written 
articles on gravity for both the technical and lay journals 
(OMNI) on this topic.  His views are founded upon applied 
theoretical physics, and he is quite conservative with his 
claims.  This particular article is primarily concerned with the 
mechanisms to mechnaically generate non-Newtonian gravitational 
fields.
 
5.  Gerartin, Lucien A. (Head, Nuclear Physics Section, Compagnie 
Francaise Thomson-Houston, Le Raincy, France) "Electro-Gravitic 
Propulsion", Interavia, Vol XI, No 12, 1956 p992.  This article 
explains the benefits of body forces as opposed to point forces, 
sketches ideas and phenomena which seem to indicate that 
antigravity devices are possible, and quotes an exuberant VP of 
the Martin Company claiming that building an Atomic Bomb is no 
more difficult than building an antigravity device.
 
6.  Giles, Cedric. "Elevators and Levitators", Journal of the 
American Rocket Society, No 68, Dec 1946, p34-9.  This is 
interesting mainly because of the date, and the perspective it 
puts upon the various types of propulsive techniques which it 
enumerates.  Some have been realized, while others (for the 
moment) have been passed by.
 
7.  Gutman (Goteborg Sweden) "Albert Einstein and Gravity 
Research", Interavia, Vol XI, No 5, 1956, p375.  Based upon 
Einstein's letters, an argument is made that electro-magnetic 
fields may be expressed, as in Maxwell's Equations, by six (6) 
functions of space and time *and* require a gravity field.  
Conversely, a gravity field requires 10 equations of space and 
time, and may exist alone.  A connection between gravity and 
electromagnetic phenomena is suggested, with gravity a 
geometrical phenomena and electromagnetics a physical phenomena.
 
8.  Intel (An anonymous American journalist) "Towards Flight 
Without Stress or Strain... or Weight", Interavia, Vol XI, No 5, 
1956, p373-4.  This is pure hype, but does identify some of the 
investigators, and some of the advantages an antigravity device 
might have.
 
9.  Kooy, JMJ (Netherlands) "Gravitation and Spaceflight", Acta 
Astronautica, Vol 4, p229-30, Pergammon Press, 1977, Great 
Britian.  A short, interesting speculation on the nature of 
gravity, and how it might be exploited to power spacecraft.

 
10.  Saxl, Erwin J (Pin Hill, Harvard MA) "An Electrically 
Charged Torque Pendulum", Nature, Vol 203, No 4941, JUly 11, 
1964, p136-8.  A former student of Einstein, this author uses 
some unexpected phenomena, which he observed while performing 
extensive tests to characterize the behavior of a charged torque 
pendulum, to suggest that Einstein might have been right in 
suggesting that there are interactions between electricity, 
inertial mass, and gravitation.
 
 
 
 
 
Ofcourse, this information does not reflect the views of my employer
in any way shape or form.
Richard K Jennings, CAPT, USAF
AFSCF/XRP              AV: 799-6427
SAFS, CA 94088-3430  ARPA: jennings@aerospace

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!mhuxt!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Disocvery Rolled to Pad
Date: 5 Jun 85 00:27:14 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The space shuttle Discovery today was rolled to pad
39A in preparation for its 17 June launch.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!bellcore!allegra!princeton!astrovax!escher!doug
From: escher!doug (Douglas J Freyburger)
Subject: Re: Mars rumor
Date: 5 Jun 85 22:13:34 GMT
Organization: NASA/JPL, Pasadena, CA

> From: Robert.Aarhus@CMU-CS-SPICE
> 	At a national Metallurgical Science convention, it was
> 	announced that photographs from the Viking lander revealed
> 	what appeared to be a pyramidal rock formation with "a
> 	face on it" (this is where I became *real* skeptical);
> 
> 	Now a rock formation, perhaps, but a Pyramid with a face?
> 	Does anyone know if this thing has been observed (maybe just
> 	a photographic artifact?), and if so, why the media hasn't

	A couple months ago, the JPL employee's newssheet
"The JPL Universe" had a pictorial of several photos like
that.  A lunar crater with a smiley face, a little Mars
mountain with an ice-hockey goalie mask, cracks in Ganymede
shaped like a mouse, etc.  There were about a dozen all
told, and some had to be explained before you got the joke.
The best part of the Martian face is that one of the "eyes"
was a pixel drop-out during transmission, and the other was
a fairly recent crater.  Computer image enhancement had
sharpened one, and blurred the other.  The algorthyms do
that to bit drop-outs usually.

	The claim of a "Great Pyramid" is one I haven't
heard about yet, though.  Sounds like fun.  Let's go play
Napolean, and strip off the top layer of limestone as
convient building material for our colonies housing!

DOUG@JPL-VLSI, doug@aerospace, ...!trwrb!escher!doug, etc.
Douglas J Freyburger, JPL 171-243, Pasadena, CA 91109

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!grkermi!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxh!twb
From: mhuxh!twb
Subject: Re: Wanted: orbital mechanics program(s)
Date: 14 Jun 85 13:11:25 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill

I am also interested in orbital mechanics software, but for an
AT&T PC6300
Please respond by E-mail to:
Avi Tilak
..!mhuxh!atux02!avi

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!grkermi!genrad!decvax!tektronix!hplabs!hao!noao!terak!doug
From: terak!doug
Subject: Re: Twin paradox
Date: 11 Jun 85 15:53:21 GMT
Organization: Terak Corporation, Scottsdale, AZ, USA

> The traveling twin has undergone a fair amount
> of acceleration with respect to the Earth...

Is acceleration measured "with respect to" something?  I'd thought
that it was absolute...
-- 
Doug Pardee -- Terak Corp. -- !{ihnp4,seismo,decvax}!noao!terak!doug
               ^^^^^--- soon to be CalComp

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #190
*******************

18-Jun-85  0403	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #191    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 191

Today's Topics:
		Communications Applications of Satellites
			    Countdown Started
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 17 Jun 1985 15:06-PDT
Sender: WARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA
Subject: Communications Applications of Satellites
From: WARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA, BBoard@USC-ISIB.ARPA
Cc: Aviation@MIT-MC.ARPA, physics@SRI-UNIX.ARPA

OASIS, the Los Angles chapter of the L-5 Society, will be hosting a
presentation by William Tisdale on the current utilization of
communications satellites and the types of services which may be offered in
the future.

Mr. Tisdale is an account representative with Satellite Business Systems, a
telecommunications firm which provides data, image and voice communication
services for customers throughout North America.

The talk will be held Saturday June 22, 1985 at 7:00 pm in the TRW Forum
located at One Space Park Drive, Redondo Beach.  The public is welcome,
admission is free.

A pre-recorded message on OASIS/L5 events may be reached at (213)374-1381.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!decvax!bellcore!sabre!zeta!epsilon!gamma!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Countdown Started
Date: 16 Jun 85 19:33:57 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The countdown for launch started yesterday with the tradition call to
stations and the powering up of Discovery's electrical systems.  Launch is
scheduled for 0733 EDT tomorrow (Monday, the 17th).  All three networks
and CNN plan live coverage if the launch is on time.  CBS and CNN plan
coverage even if there is a delay.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #191
*******************

19-Jun-85  0350	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #192    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 192

Today's Topics:
	  Acceleration is of NO consequence in the Twin Paradox
				 Liftoff
	       Shuttle Computers and STS power consumption
		    Re: "Throwing Stuff Out The Back"
			   Re: Space propulsion
			Mexican Satellite Deployed
		       Shuttle News Conference 6-18
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!bellcore!sabre!zeta!epsilon!gamma!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!ihlpg!pccx
From: ihlpg!pccx (p cunetto)
Subject: Acceleration is of NO consequence in the Twin Paradox
Date: 17 Jun 85 01:37:50 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

Several responses to the twin paradox have been posted that correctly
note the situation is not symmetrical with respect to the two twins,
and therefore there is no paradox.



              Q *
                | \
                |  \
                |   \
                |    \
                |     * R
                |    /
                |   /
                |  /
                | /
              P *

Twin A who follows PQ is in an inertial frame the entire "journey",
while twin B who follows PRQ is not.  He accelerates at R
(he need not accelerate at P or Q, they can compare ages in passing).

However, the fundamental cause of the age difference when they reunite at Q
is NOT the acceleration at R.  Any age difference caused by the acceleration at
R can be made an arbitrarily small fraction of the total age difference
merely by making the PR and RQ legs sufficiently long.

So the real cause of the age difference must be sought elsewhere.

Your don't have to look to General Relativity for that cause, it can be
found in Special Relativity.

The "cause" is the wrong way triangle inequality of Minkowski geometry.
Namely, if R is in the future of P, and Q is in the future of R, then

	d(P,Q)  >=  d(P,R) + d(R,Q)

where d(x,y) is the interval (not the spatial distance) between x and y.
(Outline of the proof follows below)

For an observer at rest in an inertial frame (viz. twin A between P and Q,
and twin B between P and R and between R and Q), the interval between
two events on his world line is just the elapsed time between them.
Therefore, the wrong way triangle inequality says:

The elapsed time from P to Q for A is greater than the total
elapsed time from P to R to Q for B, i.e, A is older than B at Q.

As stated above, the age difference caused by the acceleration at
R can be made arbitrarily small compared to the age difference "caused"
by the wrong way triangle inequality.

So it is the geometry of spacetime and the physical significance of
the interval that causes the age difference, not the acceleration.
------------------
Wrong way triangle inequality. (2 dimensions)


                * Q  (x3,t3)
                | \
                |  \
                |   \
                |    \
                |     * R (x2,t2)
                |    /
                |   /
                |  /
                | /
              P *   (x1,t1)

Given that R is in the future of P, i.e., x2-x1 <= c(t2-t1)
and   that Q is in the future of R, i.e., x3-x2 <= c(t3-t2)

show    d(P,Q)  >=  d(P,R) + d(R,Q)

where d(P,Q) is the interval between P and Q:  i.e.

     d(P,Q) = (c**2)(t3-t1)**2 - (x3-x1)**2

Outline of the proof:

Expand    d(P,Q)  >=  d(P,R) + d(R,Q)   and cancel like terms on each side.
The resulting inequality (call it [1]) is what we are going to prove.

Multiply corresponding sides of the two inequalities given in the
assumptions to get a single inequality.  Multiply it by -1, rearrange
terms, and you get [1].  QED

				Phil Cunetto

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!bellcore!sabre!zeta!epsilon!gamma!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Liftoff
Date: 17 Jun 85 13:57:33 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

Space shuttle Discovery lifted off on time today,
at 0733 EDT.  It was everything but eventful.

------------------------------

Date: 18 Jun 1985 at 2032-EDT
Subject: Shuttle Computers and STS power consumption
From: jim at TYCHO.ARPA  (James B. Houser)
To: space at mit-mc

        A recent posting about  shuttle  cooling  reminded  me  of  an
article  I  ran  across  in  an  old (1980) IBM document.  The article
described the onboard computers as System/4Pi model AP-101 processors.
The  AP-101  appears  to  be  a  3  KIP machine with an intensely ugly
architecture.  Main memory was described as 104KW  (36  bit)  of  core
(really  core!)  with  400  ns access time.  What startled me were the
physical characteristics.  Each of the five  "processors"  appears  to
consist  of  two  boxes.  The  boxes  weigh  58.9  pounds and draw 350
Watts!!!!! This would imply a system total of almost  600  pounds  and
3500  Watts.  Did  they actually use this refugee from the Smithsonian
on the Shuttle and if so are  there  any  reasonable  plans  afoot  to
upgrade?  In  a  related  question, what are the major contributors of
heat during the orbital portion of a shuttle mission?

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!unisoft!mtxinu!rtech!amdahl!ems
From: amdahl!ems (ems)
Subject: Re: "Throwing Stuff Out The Back"
Date: 17 Jun 85 22:07:40 GMT
Organization: Circle C Shellfish Ranch, Shores-of-the-Pacific, Ca

> From: Richard K. Jennings <jennings@AEROSPACE.ARPA>
> 
> 	If we use a Hydrogen (or perhaps stellar) ramjet, we wouldn't
> have to carry the mass a long.  Barring an enlighted government which
> understands, and funds, the importance of electrogravitics, the only
> way man can approach light speed in the near future is by some type
> of ram-jet technology.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is 'electrogravitics'?
-- 

E. Michael Smith  ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems

This is the obligatory disclaimer of everything. (Including but
not limited to: typos, spelling, diction, logic, and nuclear war)

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!unisoft!mtxinu!rtech!amdahl!ems
From: amdahl!ems (ems)
Subject: Re: Space propulsion
Date: 17 Jun 85 22:13:12 GMT
Organization: Circle C Shellfish Ranch
 Shores-of-the-Pacific, Ca

> From: FIRTH@TL-20B.ARPA
> 
> Here is a short list of ideas for space propulsion systems
> that don't rely on taking stuff along and throwing it out
> the back.  They range from the serious to the silly, and they
> are all based on recollections of other people's work.
>
Sigh, this must be my day for being dense.
> 
> (5) Gravitic propulsion.  This one is really way out.  Currently, we have
>     absolutely no idea how to interact with a gravity field in any
>     controlled manner.  The interaction must be possible - inded, Hawking
>     radiation is created by the breakdown of the vacuum under intense
>     gravitic stress - but we lack an adequate theory.  Also, it's not

Who was Hawkin and what is this radiation?  How can a vacuum breakdown?
It is a trace of something in the vacuum, or do you really mean
that the empty space itself breaks down?

>     clear what the energy flux would be.  If you believe Mach's principle,
>     then a ship could use the entire mass of the universe to power a
>     gravity drive.
>
Who is Mach, and what is his principle?  Did I sleep through the
wrong physics lecture or something?  None of these names is familiar
to me (unless Mach also is the guy who gave us mach numbers ... )

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems

This is the obligatory disclaimer of everything. (Including but
not limited to: typos, spelling, diction, logic, and nuclear war)

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!grkermi!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!mhuxt!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb
Subject: Mexican Satellite Deployed
Date: 18 Jun 85 04:47:44 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The crew of the Discovery today successfully deployed Morelos-A,
the Mexican satellite aboard the shuttle.  Later, its PAM engine
ignited and took it to geosynchronous orbit.

------------------------------

From: <crash!usiiden!markf@Nosc>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 85 22:46:02 PDT
To: crash!noscvax!space@mit-mc
Subject: Shuttle News Conference 6-18

NASA News Conference 6/18 -> Principal participant Milt
Heflin - Flight Director - good evening and thanks for
braving the weather.. I understand its been raining all
day. First of all, about Arab Sat, things are going very
very well, with Arab Sat. We expect the perigee kick motor
firing to occur around 1:45, our time this morning. Things
are going just fine, the spacecraft is in a position right
now, in which the partial deployed (I use the word
partially deployed for the solar panel) although its
exactly where it should be; the two first rings of the
solar panel are where they should be, receiving power and
doing the job that they're supposed to be doing. Other
activities today, the biggest activity that we had this
afternoon, occurred with the system waste water dumps..
those of you that may not be very familiar with that
system, we have water tanks on board in which we carry
pottable water .. drinking water .. water we also use in a
flash activated latrine. and we have a system to collect
the waste water. and we have only so much space in the tank
so periodically we need to dump some of that water. In
previous flights, we have had some experiencing of an
icing, an ice build up around these nozzles. This was the
first flight with a nominal configuration. And today we
performed a waste water dump, first of all a supply water
dump and looked at these dumps with the interceptor camera
on the mechanical arm. We're very very pleased with what we
saw. Both of those dumps went as expected and we think that
we're taking our first step towards putting the water dump
into a category where we can go on a flight and not worry
about that. Later in the flight we will look at the
beginning of water dumps at different nozzle temperatures.
Today we did it at a temperature that is at a high level
and a warm situation on the spacecraft to give us the best
chance of taking a look at it. We dumped about 53 lbs of
water from the supply system and also from the waste
system. Today on the down link t.v. we did see that Patrick
was convecting the French experiment in the mid deck. In
addition today, Shanon (Shanon Lucid) was doing the French
ecocardiograph experiment on herself. And today, also
Sultan (Prince Sultan Salman Al Saud) did the first of the
phase separation experiment, in which a very simple device
on board with oil and water mixed together, that from that
simple device you might get some better idea of the mixing
of the oil and the water in zero gravity. And hopefully
from that you can understand more about that mechanism that
goes on. At the end of the shift the first printout of the
animated directional solidification furnace (AVSF) was
begun and what this is is a materials processing
experiment. It one where particular metals that we're
looking at right now are byzmuth, manganese byzmuth, its
two metals that you're looking at the process of melting
these materials and then seeing how they resolidify in zero
gravity and as I understand it, this particular experiment
is looking specifically at magnetic properties and trying
to determine if we can find some way of making the magnets
more suseptable to becoming demagnetized. And that is the
activities that went on today. Questions Arab T.V. - the
Arab astronaut, did he make any comments after the
deployment of Arab Sat? He did make some comments on air to
ground. They're transcribed down here, I heard them I can't
repeat for you directly what he said but he did make a
comment about observing the deployment of the Arab Sat. Are
there any more details about how its functioning, I know
its functioning very well but...Well the tracking and
functional certainly were and what will do is hopefully at
each change of shift briefing we will be getting immediate
updates of it. The apogee kick motor firing is going to
occur at around 1:45 in the morning and we'll have that
information for you in the morning. Univ of Arabia ->
Besides the water oil mix experiment and the French
experiment what else did Prince Sultan do today. Well
today, his activities as I mentioned earlier, the French
Packet experiment .. he was a subject for that experiment.
..other than that..don't know whether he had a chance to
take some photographs of some of the reaction control
systems firing, which is something he is going to do during
the flight, I don't know whether he's done it yet or not.
We're there any reactions on how those experiments went?
No, I did not hear any reaction from him. AP -> When the
Sultan will be taking pictures of the Arabian Penninsula..
he's supposed to do that on a couple of passes. Yes he is.
Do you happen to have a weather forcast for that area? How
the visibility will be? In the next few days of the
mission. No sir, I don't but I'm sure we can get that for
you. French New Agency -> Can you tell us what difference
there are between the old water nozzles and the new ones.
And what difference does that make for the operation. Sure-
the nozzle itself has been changed..the old nozzle allowed
the water to come out in a spray pattern, the new one comes
out more like a pencil, you might say a pencil stream of
fluid instead of a spray. The spray was basically what was
causing the problem before. That's the biggest difference.
Aviation Week -> Were you able to get the Arab Sat PAM burn
on film, on tape? No sir, we were not. Why was that? The
interceptor camera was not configured for it.. on the arm.
French News -> Do you have to take into account the
modification of atitude to the orbiter of some 63 lbs of
water exuding from the nozzle? Or is that just .. it really
just annoying. And we were expecting some type of downlink
from Patrick Baudry giving how the experiments went..what
happened to it? When I left the control center, we got the
information that the payload specialist report was
performed and on the recorder one of the flight controllers
in the control center .. the information on that is that
the French experiment ..my suggestion would be if the PI of
the French experiment wished to have that released those
arrangements can be made. ..Could you explain simply what
exactly the high precision tracking experiment is and what
will take place tommorrow. Later in the day, around day 2,
the MET (mission elapse time for day two) 6 1/2 HRS CST,
what will happen is the .. we're looking at the ability for
a low powered laser about 4 watts wavelength of blue color
laser and see how well it can .. tracking a range and a
range rate divised. Its an airforce experiment. The
transmitter for that experiment is on the isle of Maui in
Hawaii, that's an airforce site there. The orbitters going
to act basically like a mirror. We're going to attatch to
the side hinge on the port side of the orbitter .. inside,
we will attatch an electroreflective mirror and simply come
over the tracking  site at Hawaii and point the window
towards the station. And allow the station there to
transmit the beam to the orbitter. We will not have any
feedback immediately on how that went. It will all be done,
as far as how well it goes, will be known down there on the
island of Maui. They said this morning the Arab Sat was
being tracked from San Palo will they continue to track the
satellite on this burn and once apogee burn has occurred
who will be tracking it from there and at what point will
Saudi Arabia be expected to pick it up? There are a number
of tracking sites. I don't have them in front of me, I know
that on the way to geosynch orbit that the Intelsat network
and the tracking sites will be performing that function. At
some point in time, the tracking and the house keeping of
the satellite will go to the ground site there in, I
believe, Saudi Arabia and I'm not sure just where it is.
**********************
More general information -> Two of the satellites are now
deployed and they are in nominal orbit. The Telesat will be
deployed in the morning. The French experiment is being put
on a tape recorder and its up to the French to release it.
The circularization burn on Arab Sat will take place about
1:45 tommorrow. Spartan -> National Physics Experiment, low
cost experiments to capitalize on the success of the NASA
sounding rocket experiment. Spartan 1 - the high energy
payload consists of a naval research laboratory instrument
containing two large X-ray counters equipped with
colimeters to define the direction of the incoming X-ray
source - this type of instrument has previously provided
brief snap shots of X-ray sources with in the sounding
rocket program. Data is stored in a paper program aboard
Spartan and by film can provide atitude accuracy. Spartan
will point the instrument with its stellar atitude control
systems allowing instruments to systemmatically scan the
surface of X-ray and construct a two dimensional picture of
X-ray emmissions. Clusters will be mapped and data will be
gathered on the temperature of the intracluster gas and the
galactic evolutions. Spartan will be sent out then
retrieved. It will also be part of the testing for the
projected black hole in the Milky Way. There will be 35 hrs
of observing time in the Milky Way. There are also smaller
experiments on board.. Get Away Specials on the flight ..
Capillary exp, space ultraviolet radiation exp. , Texas
school has a series of student experiments. .. growth of
seeds.. dynamic liquid propellent for the tank experiment.
Also there is the furnace for combining metals .. testing
magnetism .. fundamental studies in magnetism. Producing
metals with better magnetic properties.
>From the Intercomex Bulletin Board (303)-367-1935
crash!usiiden!markf@nosc

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #192
*******************

20-Jun-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #193    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 193

Today's Topics:
			 Space Shuttle Computers
			 Arab Satellite Deployed
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed 19 Jun 85 09:41:44-EDT
From: Gern <GUBBINS@RADC-TOPS20.ARPA>
Subject: Space Shuttle Computers
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

It is my understanding that the Space Shuttle computers are 32-bit machines
(IBM does not seem to make 36-bit machines) and are a scaled down version
of the IBM 360 in a 60 pound package (gross!).   That is, 4 of the computers
are.  The 5th was designed and built by Rockwell (Rockwell doesn't trust IBM
computers either).  I do not know how different the Rockwell machine is to
the IBMs, but it is the only computer that has never failed (it did cause
the sync problems on the very first attempted launch, but only because the
4 IBMs ganged up on it...).

Cheers,
Gern

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!uwvax!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Arab Satellite Deployed
Date: 19 Jun 85 01:15:46 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The Discovery today successfuly deployed a satellite owned by
a consortium of Arab countries.  The deployment was delayed
while crew members inspected the berthed satellite via remote
camera to determine whether or not a sensor that reported a
premature deployment of a solar panel was malfunctioning.  The
panel turned out to be locked into its proper place.  After
satellite deployment, its PAM engine ignited and took it to
its geosynchronous orbit.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #193
*******************

21-Jun-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #194    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 194

Today's Topics:
			 Space Shuttle Computers
			  Interesting Questions
			       Re: Liftoff
		  Laser Test Fails -- Satellite Deployed
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 20 Jun 1985 20:56:47-EDT (Thursday)
From:   Josh Knight  <JOSH%YKTVMH.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA>
To:  space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Space Shuttle Computers

The September 1984 Issue of Communications of the ACM had a case study
of the Space Shuttle primary computer system and a special section on
on computing in space.  The following excerpt from the (copyright ACM)
case study article "The Space Shuttle Primary Computer System" by Alfred
Spector and David Gifford, is a response by Tony Macina of IBM to the
question by Al Spector "Can you give us some more detailed information
about the Shuttle computers?":

      "A single computer (GPC) is made up of two packages, a CPU unit
    and an I/O device unit (IOP), with a total of 106K 32 bit words of
    memory.  The CPU, a System/4 Pi, Model AP-101 manufactured by IBM
    is an off-the-shelf processor and has probably been around for 10
    or 12 years.  Our original contract specified that we use off-the-
    shelf hardware as much as possible.  The 4 Pi design has been used
    in a number of other aerospace vehicles.  For example, certain B-52
    aircraft an the B-1 Bomber use 4 Pi technology.
      "The IOP was specially built and designed for the Shuttle, using
    4 Pi technology.  It contains 24 "time-sliced" processors that handle
    the data buses on the Shuttle.  The IOP obtains its instructions from
    the main memory and is actually in contention with the CPU for memory
    access."


Further responses indicate that the main memory is ferrite core (non-
volatility is cited as an advantage of this old implementation), that
the CPU processes 450,000 instructions/second and that the CPU/IOP
combination weighs about 120 pounds.  To control flight surfaces each
of the 4 (hopefully) identical computers send independent commands on
independent buses to independent actuators and what happens to the
control surfaces is controlled by a HYDRAULIC "voting" mechanism.

The articles in the special section on computing in space are:


  "Development and Application of NASA's First Standard Spacecraft
   Computer" by C.E. Trevathan, T.D. Taylor, R.G. Hartenstein,
   A.C. Merwarth and W.N. Stewart

  "Design, Devlopment, Integration:  Space Shuttle Primary Flight
   Software System"  by W.A. Madden and K.Y. Rone

  "Architecture of the Space Shuttle Primary Avionics Software System"
   by G.D. Carlow


Of course, any opinions, expressed or implied are mine and not my employers...

			Josh Knight
			IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
josh@yktvmh.BITNET,  josh.yktvmh.ibm-sj@csnet-relay.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!alberta!myriasb!ggc
From: myriasb!ggc (Gilles Chartrand)
Subject: Interesting Questions
Date: 19 Jun 85 17:27:05 GMT
Organization: Myrias Research, Edmonton


	In the past couple of weeks many interesting questions were
posted in this group.  There have been no follow-up answers.  Is there
some node in the net which isn't forwarding properly?  Are answers
being sent by mail?  Does no one know the answers?  I am very interested
in everything about the space shuttles please, discuss these topics
publically.

					Gilles
					...!alberta!myrias!ggc

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!mtuxo!mtunh!mtung!mtunf!ariel!vax135!petsd!peora!jer
From: peora!jer (J. Eric Roskos)
Subject: Re: Liftoff
Date: 19 Jun 85 19:30:16 GMT
Organization: Perkin-Elmer SDC, Orlando, Fl.

>Space shuttle Discovery lifted off on time today,
>at 0733 EDT.  It was everything but eventful.

Pooh.  You must have had to have been there.  For the first time in a long
time, you could actually SEE it clearly until the SRBs quit going.
It was good to photograph, too.
-- 
Shyy-Anzr:  J. Eric Roskos
UUCP:       ..!{decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!vax135!petsd!peora!jer
US Mail:    MS 795; Perkin-Elmer SDC;
	    2486 Sand Lake Road, Orlando, FL 32809-7642

	    Bar ol bar / Gur pbyq rgpurq cyngr /
	    Unf cevagrq gur jnez fgnef bhg.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Laser Test Fails -- Satellite Deployed
Date: 20 Jun 85 03:09:49 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

A laser beam was shot at the space shuttle today in a test
to see how laser light diffuses as it travels through the
atmosphere.  Unfortunately, numbers fed by ground control
into the shuttle autopilot were in feet instead of nautical
miles with the result that the mirror on the shuttle that
should have reflected the beam back to Earth was on the
wrong side at the appointed time.  NASA said there will
be another chance on Saturday.

Meanwhile, Telstar-3D was successfully deployed and NASA
reported a successful PAM burn, making this mission 3 for 
3 in satellite deployments.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #194
*******************

22-Jun-85  1823	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #195    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 195

Today's Topics:
		       Re: Space Shuttle Computers
				 Starwisp
		       Twin paradox re-re-revisited
			Who are Mach and Hawking?
			Nuclear pumped gas lasers
		      Re:  Who are Mach and Hawking?
			  shuttle news conf 6/20
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 21 Jun 1985 08:38-EDT 
From: Douglass.Locke@CMU-CS-K.ARPA
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle Computers

The four (not five) Shuttle computers are indeed IBM AP-101 processors.
They are environmentally hardened 32 bit machines which bear NO
resemblance to IBM 360's or any other commercial computer, either in
architecture or in construction.  Although all the processors are
identical, one contains a different software package written by
Rockwell to avoid the potential of a single software problem stopping
all the computers simultaneously.  Before one criticizes the packaging,
or the memory technology chosen, it would perhaps be appropriate to
investigate the difficulties of handling an environment with potential
extremes of temperature, vibration, shock, EMI, and radiation, with
acceptable reliability, and in a vehicle which is totally dependent on
the equipment.  When NASA was specifying the equipment, it was in the
mid-70's and there was no applicable experience with the actual shuttle
environment, so a conservative approach was certainly justified.  The
IBM AP-101 is one of an extensive line of machines for such
environments with a variety of speeds, form factors, memory
technologies, etc., each designed to cope with different environmental
and application requirements.

				-- Doug Locke

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jun 85 18:07:10 EDT
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: Starwisp
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

I missed the beginning of the Interstellar probe discussion.  Did Forward's
Starwisp idea get mentioned?

Starwisp is a VERY lightweight cloud of thin metal wires.  Arranged at the
intersections of the wires are tiny electronic devices.  The wisp is powered
by microwaves from a source in the solar system.  It is accelerated by
microwave radiation pressure at about 100 gees(!);  acceleration is
limited (as in all radiation pressure systems) by heating of the sail.
It coasts, inactive, to the target system at a good fraction of c.  When it
reaches the target system a microwave beam from the solar system (greatly
spread out) illuminates it; information is transmitted back to Earth by
phase conjugating the microwave power signal.  The engineering challenges here
are severe, but relatively little power is needed (gigawatts for a gram-scale
wisp).
-------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jun 85 05:03 PDT
From: FRIEDRICH%GAV@LLL-MFE.ARPA
Subject: Twin paradox re-re-revisited
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA

Quite a bit of discussion about the twin paradox has gone on.  Let me
throw some more wood onto the fire by doing a small bit of algebra.

First, please allow me to use the capital B to denote beta, which repre-
sents the term v/c, where v is the relative velocity involved at the
moment, and c is the speed of light.  Also grant me the use of sqrt(x)
to mean the square root of x.

Now, if you'll promise not to go to sleep ...

Give each twin a bright flashing light, which flashes at a rate f.  Now
send twin R on the rocket, and give twin E a chair.

During the outbound trip of the rocket, each twin sees the other's light
flashing at a rate

                  f' = f * sqrt( (1-B)/(1+B) )

where the v buried in B is the rocket's velocity.  Note that since B < 1,
f' is lower than f; in fact, at v = c, f' is zero.

(Let me stop a minute to show this; without special relativity,

                f' = f / (1 - B)

but y (gamma, if you please) = sqrt(1 - B^2) is the time-dilation factor,
so

                f' = (f / (1 - B)) * y

from which you can easily get the first equation.)

Now comes the asymmetry of the situation.  Note that I will carefully
stay out of general relativity; it is not necessary to explain the twin
paradox.  Immediately after the turnaround, twin R begins seeing twin E's
light flashing at a much higher rate:

                f'' = f * sqrt( (1+B)/(1-B) )

Now this means that f'' is GREATER than f.  But twin E, back on Earth, does
not see this enhanced rate immediately.  If L is the distance of the trip,
twin E does not see the enhanced rate until

                t = L/v - L/c

before the end of the trip.  (Note that as v -> c, twin E sees the increased
rate for less and less time.)  This enhanced flash rate is simply none other
than the Doppler effect; we are NOT comparing the speeds of the two twins'
clocks.  Do not be misled into believing that we have shown that moving
clocks run FAST sometimes; realize that the light travel time is decreasing.

To summarize:  during the outbound leg, each twin sees a reduced flash rate
from the other twin.  Immediately after reversal, the rocket twin sees a
higher flash rate from the Earth twin's light.  However, the Earth twin does
not see this high flash rate for quite a while yet; the light must get to
him from the turnaround point first.  Herein lies the asymmetry of the sit-
uation.  The rocket twin is the one that actually went through the turn-
around event; NOT the Earthbound twin.

The Earthbound twin sees the lower flash rate for a much longer period
of time, and NEVER sees a flash rate higher than the rocket twin sees.

Reference:  Special Relativity, by A. P. French, which is part of the
MIT Introductory Physics Series, published by W. W. Norton and Company.
My edition is copyright 1966, and the relevant pages are 149 - 159.

Terry

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jun 85 05:04 PDT
From: FRIEDRICH%GAV@LLL-MFE.ARPA
Subject: Who are Mach and Hawking?
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA

A question a couple of days ago asked, in effect, "who are Mach and Hawking,
and what do they know?"

Ernst Mach was the first of a number of physicists to ask questions about
whether acceleration is relative to something.  To make this concrete, the
question raised, effectively, is "If you were spinning around in your desk
chair, and the rest of the universe suddenly disappeared, would you still
feel as though you were spinning?"  The conclusion of Mach and many others
after him, is "No!  Inertia (which is "resistance to acceleration") is
determined by the rest of the matter in the universe."

In other words, accelerations are not absolute, but are with respect to
the distant galaxies.  Fred Hoyle and J. V. Narlikar have developed a
reformulation of general relativity that embodies Mach's Principle;
even the masses of atoms are determined by the distribution of matter in
the universe.

Now, for something completely different.  Mach's Principle remains a
conjecture only.  Stephen Hawking is another story.  Hawking is, in my
own humble opinion (and that of many others) the world's greatest living
astrophysicist.  Unfortunately, he has a degenerative nerve disease that
has crippled and is slowly killing him.  He does his mathematics in his
head and dictates to graduate students who have been specially trained
to understand his speech (mostly by experience, I gather).  Charles River
Data Systems of Natick, Massachusetts, deserves a great big hearty THANKS
for donating a supermicro or two to Hawking, which will probably help him
communicate with others.

Hawking is probably best known for showing the existence of Hawking radiation;
the fact that black holes evaporate is due to this.  It has been described
as "the breakdown of vacuum (actually, space) under intense gravitic stress"
in another message to this list.  Essentially, what is happening is a result
of quantum physics and the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

Space, at the quantum level, is not empty.  It is seething with virtual
particles, created due to uncertainty.  Energy is "borrowed" from nothing
to create particles, with the understanding that they live for only a very
short period of time, and then disappear, giving the energy back.  According
to the uncertainty principle, this is OK as long as the product of the
energy and the time don't exceed a certain (extremely small) value involving
Planck's Constant.

Now suppose that a virtual particle pair is created right next to the event
horizon of a black hole, so that one member is sucked in.  The other member
now has nobody to combine with to give back the energy.  Hawking showed that
the net effect of this is that "permanent" energy is drawn from the black
hole to replace the energy that was borrowed against the uncertainty
principle.  The particle that stayed outside the black hole becomes "real",
and the result is that a black hole emits particles!

Now, since black holes have finite mass, they can't continue to emit par-
ticles forever.  So the black hole gets smaller ("evaporates").  This
increases the surface-to-mass ratio, and the black hole gets smaller faster.
This rate of evaporation increases until there is finally an explosive
effect in the last few instants of the hole's existence.

I wish I could recall the timescale of this; the one thing I think I
remember is that a black hole about the mass of Mount Everest would
evaporate in something like a million years ... but don't quote me on
that.  Please note also that the above explanation spans a LOT of
physics, and is necessarily crude.

Terry

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jun 85 18:31:16 EDT
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: Nuclear pumped gas lasers
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

I just sent a message on this subject to ARMS-D; it has applications to
civilian space, too, so I'd thought I'd reiterate here.

The idea is to make a compact, high power space based laser using nuclear
power.  I don't want to use nuclear reactions to boil water to make
electricity to drive a laser; that's horribly bulky and inefficient.
Instead, mix U-235 hexafluoride gas with some lasing medium and let the
fission fragments directly excite laser action.  We can potentially
discard waste heat at very high temperatures, allowing a very compact
high power laser.

Some applications:  (1) we can beam power to spacecraft.  (2) we can beam power to the moon.  A good orbit to use for this application is a polar orbit aligned 
perpendicular to the earth-moon axis; the orbit can be made to precess with
a period of 1 lunar month.  (3) we can fly laser powered aircraft (over
oceans!) (4) weather modification (5) pulsed UV lasers could be used to
prospect on the moon from earth orbit (maybe on asteroids too).  A pulsed
laser would need a pulsed reactor; these beasts have been built on earth
and have achieved very high instantaneous power levels (I'm not counting
pulsed reactors that make mushroom clouds).

This is potentially a near term technology, since nuclear power sources are
so lightweight (and because SDI is getting billions of dollars).

These lasers would also make, of course, frightening weapons.  Combined with
large telescopes in orbit they would allow the destruction of exposed
personnel at any give point on the Earth's surface, in seconds.  A 1 gigawatt
laser could deliver ~100x solar intensity to an area 100 meters across.
-------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jun 85 18:16:14 pdt
From: Rick McGeer <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
To: FRIEDRICH%GAV@LLL-MFE.ARPA, SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Re:  Who are Mach and Hawking?

	I might also point out that Hawking's theory predicts that black
holes randomly emitt mass of any form and content.  What that means, to
paraphrase Pournelle, is that everyone and everything you can imagine,
(and everything you can't) will eventually get emitted from a singularity.
In short, the eggplant that ate Philadelphia is real....and, no, I'm not
kidding.

	Hawking, incidentally, isn't all that tough to understand -- or wasn't
three years ago when he gave a radio interview.  Halfway through the interview
I understood him perfectly, and wished that his damn translator would SHUT UP.
Definitely the greatest living astrophysicist, and one of the greatest of all
time.
					Rick.

------------------------------

From: <crash!usiiden!markf@Nosc>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 85 06:45:47 PDT
To: crash!noscvax!space@mit-mc
Subject: shuttle news conf 6/20

Change of Shift Press Conference 6/20 -> Let me bring youup to date on the status of the three satellites. TheMorelos is in geosynch and they plan to start testing fromthe station tonight. The Arab Sat, the second had asuccessful apogee kick motor firing. In fact, it wasperformed so well that the latest data I have is that twomore burns are scheduled, but it looks like right now thatthey'll only need one more. And that's presently scheduledfor Saturday morning at 5 AM CDT. The full array deploymentschedule

d for Saturday at 11 AM. The Telstar had an apogeekick motor firing today and it was successful. And theearly testing of Telestar will start on Saturday. I'll getinto detail on Spartan just a little bit later. I feel likeI've kind of slighted the Orbitter, Discovery, the last fewdays and probably shouldn't have because there's beennothing to report on Discovery. Which I think should besaid. It credits a lot of folks especially those at KFCthat turn the vehicle around. And its been just performingabsolutely

 outstanding. And there is nothing to report onDiscovery today. The Spartan deployment today was the bigactivity. The deployment went absolutely by the book frommy standpoint. For example, there were absolutely no tipoff rates, the orbitter did not fire a single attitudecontrol jet at the time we deployed the Spartan. We wereprecisely in the atitude desired. We predicted that wewould use someone for the whole operation, leading up tothe deployment exercise, we predicted that we would use atotal of 135 lbs 

of propellant and we used 129. And I thinkone thing that is a real key here is that in all oursimulations today for the Spartan deployment, the folksthat put that thing together, they predicted throughsimulations that we would be at 950 ft at the beginning ofthe second burn, that was the prediction through simulationand we were precisely at 950 ft. And that's a vote ofconfidence for twenty people and all those people who putthat together. Just to remind you, we do not have anytelemetry on Spartan, its an e

xperiment that will take alook at two primary sources of X-rays in the heavens, oneat the center of our own gallaxy and in addition it will belooking at an X-ray source from a cluster of stars nearPerseus (I think it is). So we have no telemetry on it,after deployment, it let us know that it was O.K. by doinga perouette maneuver, its a simple 45 degree roll about thegrapple fixture and then a return and this indicates to usthat Spartan is alive and we
ll and from that point in timeit has an on-board program, an attitude control system togo away and pick up some guide stars to be sure that it isin the right attitude and then further do its sciencetaking. With a summary of tommorrow's activities, we haverescheduled a new primary event for the high precisiontracking experiment (HPTE) over at Mauii and that will bescheduled to occur on orbit 54 which is very close tomission elapsed time of four days even and this equates tosomewhere in the neighborhood of 6

:30 AM. In order to thatwe're moving some of the water test a little further up intime to give us time for the tracking test. And we do havealso planned tommorrow, some mid deck t.v. activities, andat this stage, I'm not too sure of the status of the VIPphone calls that might occur tommorrow. Oh and by the way,were going to give the Orbit 1 team a chance to do the HPTEtracking. Questions -> Video News Arabia -> Could youplease brief us about the Princes activities for today. Hewas again the subject in the 

French experiment. But I don'tknow when he does that because it's strictly up to him. I'mafraid I can't answer your question. He will be making areport today. Voice of America -> I understand thatyesterday the astronauts determined among themselves whowas the official 100 th astronaut in space did they giveany indication of how they made the determination? Yes, Itsquite simply a matter that Steve Nagel was the 100 thShannon was runner up, she was 99 th. I believe theydetermined that Steve was something lik

e 3 inches behind,further aft then Shannon which made him the 100 th. CNN ->Do you have the ft converted into nautical mi for the Orbit1 team? Yes!  Are we going to get a call from Reagan(tommorrow)? None planned at this point.    crash!usiiden!markf!nosc

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #195
*******************

23-Jun-85  0351	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #196    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 196

Today's Topics:
			  Lofstrom, take note...
			      Shoot the Moon
		 Mach and Hawking (Re: Space propulsion)
		 Re: Shuttle Computers and STS power cons
	      Keywords: ELXSI, Dryden Flight Facility, EMBOS
		       Space Shuttle Audio & Video
	     Re: Shuttle Computers and STS power consumption
		Spartan Launched -- Laser Test Rescheduled
			       Re: Liftoff
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 22 Jun 85 11:46:50 EDT
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: Lofstrom, take note...
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: keithl.TEKTRONIX@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA


Business Week, July 1, 1985, page 79

  "A Giant Flywheel That `Banks' Energy"

    "What do you get by combining a giant underground atom smasher with
   a magnetic leviation `train' of little metal cubes?  A revolutionary
   way of storing massive amounts of energy, according to researchers
   at Argonne National Laboratory.  They propose building a monstrous
   flywheel: a chain of magnetically suspended metal cubes in a circular
   vacuum chamber 1.2 mi. in diameter.  The cubes would be accelerated
   to a speed of thousands of miles per hour by superconducting magnets,
   just as similar magnets send atomic particles zipping around an
   atom-smasher at close to the speed of light.

    "A utility could rev up this flywheel at night, using surplus power.
   The next day, the energy would be retrieved by reversing the process
   and using the ring as a generator.  Argonne scientist John R. Hull
   says that a kinetic-energy ring would be three times as efficient as
   hydroelectric systems that store energy by pumping water back up behind
   a dam.

Looks like ANL is doing research that could lead to a launch loop.  The
kinetic energy ring looks like a winner if it makes sense on as small a scale
as 1.2 miles; capital costs should scale linearly with radius while energy
stored scales as the square of the radius.
-------

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jun 85 10:45:56 EDT
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: Shoot the Moon
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

The Apollo missions revealed one serious obstacle to lunar colonization
and exploitation: an almost total lack of volatile elements in lunar
rock.  There is very little carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen or halogens;
even lead is seriously depleted.  This is now thought to have been
a consequence of the formation of the moon from debris blasted from
the earth by a collision with a mars-size body early in the history of the
solar system.  A volatile elements were disbursed before the cloud could
condense into dust particles.

At any rate, this is a serious obstacle to any would-be colonist.  Hydrogen
is necessary for water, food and rocket fuel.  Carbon and nitrogen are
needed for food and plastics.  Fluorine is vital in the chemical processing
of lunar materials.

Delivering this material to the moon by rocket is expensive, even with
advanced orbital transfer vehicles.  Delivering it to near lunar space
is somewaht cheaper, since you don't have to ferry it down, but still
expensive.

I propose a very cheap method for shipping bulk supplies to the lunar surface.
The idea is to build a large electromagnetic accelerator on the Earth's
surface.  Payloads consisting of ~100 kg of plastic are launched at the moon.
These payloads hit the moon at several km/sec, completely destroying them;
however, the target area is covered with a layer of fine soil to absorb the
kinetic energy.  Periodically the soil is sifted to remove debris, which is
then refined to extract needed volatiles.

Assuming the accelerator can be built sufficiently cheaply, the main problem
is guidance.  Travelling up through the atmosphere, the payloads will ablate
and be pushed about by winds.  Their velocities will have a significant
random component.  Some sort of active guidance will be needed to make
course corrections.  I suggest placing in each payload package a small
microwave transceiver, some control electronics, a battery, and some
low power thruster rockets.  The position of the payload is determined
by triangulation from large satellites placed in earth orbit, at the L4
and L5 points, and somewhere out of Earth/Moon system plane.  Course
correction calculations are made at a central computing facility on
Earth and relayed back to the payloads.

All the elements I mentioned above can be delivered by this mechanism.
Hydrogen and carbon are delivered as polyethylene.  Fluorine is delivered
as Teflon.  Nitrogen can be delivered as Nylon.  The guidance and control
package will be destroyed on impact, but perhaps some useful metal can be
extracted.

A rough guess of cost can be made by calculating energy cost (~$3/kg
at 30% launcher efficiency and $.05/KWHr) and capital costs (at
$5 billion dollars spread over five years at 100,000 tonnes/year, about
$10/kg).  This ignores guidance package costs, which might add another
$10/kg (if the package costs ~$1000, probably an overestimate).
-------

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!mcnc!rti-sel!rtp47!throopw
From: rtp47!throopw (Wayne Throop)
Subject: Mach and Hawking (Re: Space propulsion)
Date: 20 Jun 85 16:58:41 GMT
Organization: Data General, RTP, NC

Article <2272@mordor.UUCP> mentioned some farily far-out ideas for space
propulsion.  In article <1684@amdahl.UUCP>, E. Michael Smith asks about
Hawking, "vaccuum breakdown" and Mach's Principle, which were mentioned
in the original article.  Here is my contribution to the flood of
articles that I assume will follow this query.

Hawking is one of the current big guns in theoretical physics, and has
published many articles about the physics of black holes, some of which
have been popularized.  Hawking radiation refers to an interesting
theoretical effect he "discovered" which allows a black hole to radiate.
It is related to "tunneling" out of a potential barrier too high to
penetrate via classical physics, but one interpretation of it DOES
actually have vaccuum "breaking down".

In particular, quantum mechanics and the uncertainty principle raises
some theoretical difficulties that are avoided by what is called
"renormalization".  Among other things, the mathematics of this process
imply that particles appear and disappear spontaneously in vaccuum.
Normally, what is created is a particle/anti-particle pair, and they
normally self-destruct before they can be perceived (they persist a
shorter time than the uncertainty involved in attempting to measure
them).  When this occurs near a black hole, one of the two particles
(the anti-particle, say) can fall past the event horizon, and thus be
unavailable for re-combination with a particle.

This event is indistinguishable from the black hole emiting a particle.
It is intuitively appealing (and even formally appealing, as I
understand it) to think of this process as a "breakdown of vaccuum".  A
way to think of it is that the event horison of a black hole is "sharp
enough" to slice vaccuum.  (You real physicists out there note that I
didn't say it was a *good* way of thinking about it.)

Ernst Mach was an Austrian physicist who died in 1916.  I have heard of
"the Mach Principle" or "Mach's Principle" in science fiction stories,
and it seems to have something to do with FTL travel.  I don't know
exactly what that is all about, but I suspect is is some
pre-relativistic notion that isn't too relevant anymore.  (I'd be
delighted to find differently... anybody out there know any more about
"Mach's Principle"?)

Ernst had nothing to do with "mach number", which is speed measured in
speed-of-sound units (a somewhat rubber measuring unit, it has always
seemed to me).  I think mach is a corruption of "mark", but I beg to be
corrected if I'm wrong.
-- 
Wayne Throop at Data General, RTP, NC
<the-known-world>!mcnc!rti-sel!rtp47!throopw

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!cca!haddock!stevel
From: haddock!stevel
Subject: Re: Shuttle Computers and STS power cons
Date: 20 Jun 85 01:42:00 GMT


> This would imply a system total of almost  600  pounds  and
> 3500  Watts.  Did  they actually use this refugee from the Smithsonian
> on the Shuttle and if so are  there  any  reasonable  plans  afoot  to
> upgrade?

The computer was designed to use PROVEN technology as of 1972(3?).
This means no 8086 maybe not even an 8080, had to be proven mil spec.

??? do they get anything from redisigning it aside from another 400-500
pounds of usefull load? It already is reliable and cost of development
would probably wipe out all operating cost savings, unless it is
delaying shuttle missions.

However you can bet the french Hermes shuttle will use something better.
It already has a glass cockpit almost like the planned AIRBUS 320`s.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!ames!eugene
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Keywords: ELXSI, Dryden Flight Facility, EMBOS
Date: 21 Jun 85 00:34:16 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

Today, we sent down to the NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility
to view a 4 processor ELXSI system which was purchased about 1 year ago.

Several interesting observations:

For net.space: lots of neat aircraft sitting on the runway.  A shuttle
mission was in progress.  What struck me: the many aircraft hangers
which are like garages except with things which fly, row after row of hangers.
Row upon row of interesting aircraft: F-111s, F-4, T-33s, T-38s, F-14s,
F-15s, F-16s, the F-20 with a film crew (probably making a commercial),
B-52s, the Scissor wing, the LEM trainer, X-1, M-24 (lifting body).
The M-24 is surprising because there is so much wood (frame) and
it's inside has a "just struck togther look."  It's next to some
recreational camping trailers at the Dryden Rec Office: reminds me
something you can borrow for the weekend.

For net.arch: the system was configured with 4 processors, two memory
controllers and an I/O controller.  There are about 10 disks (8 Fujitsu
Eagles), and a Hyperchannel to several SEL-32s.  This system is replacing
a Cyber 70 series mainframe.

For net.unix: EMBOS is tauted as UNIX-like.  It's to a degree like UNIX
as VMS is (sort of) like UNIX.  They are running release 9 of version 1
of EMBOS.  It uses main memory intelligently for performance (caching)
and minimizes big I/O (but you can feel this at times).  The editor is
emacs with a slightly different set of keybindings.  Unix SV.2 is not
yet running on this system.  I can give more info to those people interested
if you send me mail.  You have to get use to things like:

	v --- prompt
	: infile > proc > outfile
	: infile > proc ->> outfile
			^ -- concat stderr as well as stdout to outfile
	: infile > proc1 | proc2 >> outfile || proc3
					    ^--- "||" == unix '&'
	commands like files == ls == vms directory
		      dir   == cd,pwd == set default
		      bind  == ld == link
		      and so on

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,decwrl,allegra}!ames!aurora!eugene
  emiya@ames-vmsb.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!ariel!mtunf!mtung!mtunh!inuxi!inuxc!pur-ee!wd9get
From: pur-ee!wd9get (Brandt)
Subject: Space Shuttle Audio & Video
Date: 17 Jun 85 20:07:45 GMT
Reply-To: wd9get@pur-ee.UUCP (Brandt)
Organization: Electrical Engineering Department , Purdue University

I watched the launch of Discovery on a TVRO system this morning, and
I must say it was a refreshing change from trying to sort out the junk
the network newscasters clog up the airways with.

If you have been looking for the sat info, I caught the NASA link on
Satcom F1R (F1 in most sat mags) on transponder 18. F1 is in geosync
over 139 W longitude. A different magazine showed the NASA link to be
on Galaxy G1 (the next sat west of F1) on transponder 13. I didn't try
to confirm this as G1 comes in very poorly on a 7 ft dish from central
Indiana, and I was also trying to video tape the launch.

For those of you with HF ham radio low band gear or a shortwave 
receiver, the Goddard Amateur Radio Club in Greenbelt, MD is again 
retransmitting the shuttle audio on 3.860, 7.185, and 14.290 MHz.


-- 
--Keith E. Brandt
  wd9get@pur-ee.UUCP

 "Goodbye, cruel world that was my home-
    there's cleaner space out here to roam.
  Put my feet up on the moons of Mars-
    sit back, relax, and count the stars."
				--Ian Anderson

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ucbvax!ucsfcgl!arnold
From: ucsfcgl!arnold (Ken Arnold%CGL)
Subject: Re: Shuttle Computers and STS power consumption
Date: 21 Jun 85 02:57:33 GMT
Reply-To: arnold@ucsfcgl.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE)
Organization: UCSF Computer Graphics Lab

In article <2322@mordor.UUCP> @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC.ARPA:jim@TYCHO.ARPA writes:
>A recent posting about shuttle cooling reminded me of an article I ran
>across in an old (1980) IBM document.  The article described the
>onboard computers as System/4Pi model AP-101 processors.  The AP-101
>appears to be a 3 KIP machine with an intensely ugly architecture.
>Main memory was described as 104KW (36 bit) of core (really core!)
>with 400 ns access time. ...  Did they actually use this refugee from
>the Smithsonian on the Shuttle and if so are there any reasonable
>plans afoot to upgrade?

One of the main problems with space ship design is that, by the time
the design sits on the launching pad, its technology is quite out of
date.  This is true of all technology, but since computer technology
evolves considerably faster than other kinds, it is much more critical
(as the above description shows).

The California Space Resources institute (attached to the University of
California at San Diego) is currently coordinating a study which
includes this problem, relating the design of the space station.  As I
understand it, the problem is to define computer (and where possible
other techonological) needs by interface, and maximum physical
attributes (which, as things get smaller and generate less heat,
becomes not much of a problem); basically a form of modular technology
design.  That's what seemed most promising last time I was informed,
but it has been several months.

As an aside, in case you've been wondering where your defense dollars
are going, the same problem exists in front line equipment, which takes
just as long to get to the front.  Of course, the degree to which
computers are out of date varies among different pieces of equipment.

		Ken Arnold

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Spartan Launched -- Laser Test Rescheduled
Date: 20 Jun 85 23:56:52 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

Spartan-1 was deployed by the Discovery crew today.  The satellite
will scan the stars for sources of X-rays, concentrating on the
center of the Milky Way Galaxy, where astronomers believe exists
a black hole.  The satellite will be retrieved in two days and
returned to Earth.

Meanwhile, NASA rescheduled the test of a low powered laser
system for 0730 EDT Friday.  The laser is to be fired from a
mountaintop observatory and reflected by the shuttle.  A
measurement given to the shuttle's autopilot was in feet
instead of nautical miles, so the shuttle thought the mountaintop
was 9000 miles above the Earth instead of a little over a
mile and a half; the result was that the mirror ended up on
the wrong side of the ship.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!sun!idi!burl!rcj
From: burl!rcj (Curtis Jackson)
Subject: Re: Liftoff
Date: 21 Jun 85 14:26:22 GMT
Reply-To: rcj@burl.UUCP (Curtis Jackson)
Organization: AT&T Technologies, Burlington NC

In article <1107@peora.UUCP> jer@peora.UUCP (J. Eric Roskos) writes:
>>Space shuttle Discovery lifted off on time today,
>>at 0733 EDT.  It was everything but eventful.
>
>Pooh.  You must have had to have been there.  For the first time in a long
>time, you could actually SEE it clearly until the SRBs quit going.
>It was good to photograph, too.

I was in the VIP viewing area for STS-5; on that one we actually saw
the SRBs blown off and watched them tumble flashing in the sunlight
almost all the way to water impact.  Stunning!
-- 

The MAD Programmer -- 919-228-3313 (Cornet 291)
alias: Curtis Jackson	...![ ihnp4 ulysses cbosgd mgnetp ]!burl!rcj
			...![ ihnp4 cbosgd akgua masscomp ]!clyde!rcj

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #196
*******************

24-Jun-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #197    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 197

Today's Topics:
			      Comet Machholz
			 NASA and 'Shuttle Down'
	     Re: Shuttle Computers and STS power consumption
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jun 85  9:07:10 EDT
From: Dick Koolish <koolish@bbncd2.arpa>
Subject: Comet Machholz
To: space@mit-mc.arpa

Comet Machholz (1985e)

The following positions are from IAU Circulars 4071 and 4072.

1985 ET     RA (1950)   DEC (1950)  MAG

June 8      2h 10.28m   +20d 27.7m  8.0
    10      2  28.22    +21  17.8      
    12      2  47.50    +22  03.0   7.2
    14      3  08.12    +22  41.8
    16      3  30.09    +23  12.0   6.2
    18      3  53.38    +23  31.8
    20      4  17.97    +23  39.5   5.0
    22      4  43.95    +23  33.4

July 6      8h 21.46m   +22d 09.2m  4.1
     8      8  47.07    +22  04.6
    10      9  12.60    +21  47.2   5.4
    12      9  37.96    +21  16.2
    14     10  02.95    +20  31.8   6.3
    16     10  27.27    +19  35.4
    18     10  50.64    +18  28.9   7.0
    20     11  12.84    +17  14.7
    22     11  33.69    +15  55.6   7.7
    24     11  53.11    +14  33.9
    26     12  11.10    +13  11.9   8.3
    28     12  27.69    +11  51.1
    30     12  42.94    +10  32.8   8.9

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!markb
From: sdcrdcf!markb (Mark Biggar)
Subject: NASA and 'Shuttle Down'
Date: 21 Jun 85 20:31:23 GMT
Reply-To: markb@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Mark Biggar)
Organization: System Development Corp. R+D, Santa Monica

It appears that the novel 'Shuttle Down' by Lee Corry has done some good:

SANTIAGO (UPI) - The military government has approved a National
Aeronautics and Space Administration plan to build an emergency space
shuttle landing site on Easter Island, 2,000 miles off the Chilean
coast.
	"The decision has been taken.  All that is needed now is for
President (Augusto) Pinochet to approve the agreement with NASA."
said Adm. Jose Toribio Merino.
	NASA proposed lengthening the present runway on the small South
Pacific island by 400 meters so the space shuttle can land there in the
case of an aborted takeoff.
	The NASA plan required approval by the four-man junta that
acts as Clile's legislature.
	Critics claim it will damage the island's unique collection
of massive heads carved out of volcanic stone by unknown sculptors
many centuries ago, and it will turn the polynesian possession into a
U.S. military base.

-------------
Mark Biggar
{allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,akgua,sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!markb

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!hrpd3!ken
From: hrpd3!ken (K.COCHRAN)
Subject: Re: Shuttle Computers and STS power consumption
Date: 21 Jun 85 17:01:22 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ


Could the use of core memory have anything to do with data
integrity when cosmic rays pass through the shuttle, or if
power drops unexpectedly.
				Ken Cochran   vax135!hr1ar!ken

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #197
*******************

29-Jun-85  1554	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #198    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 198

Today's Topics:
			  Laser Test Successful
			     Nuclear Shuttle?
				   Mach
	     Re: SPACE Digest V5 #196: french Hermes shuttle
			You know it's real when...
			  Shuttle Main Computers
				Modularity
	     Re: SPACE Digest V5 #196: french Hermes shuttle
		       Care to add me to spaaaaace?
				July Byte
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Laser Test Successful
Date: 22 Jun 85 00:18:55 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

What started as a 5 mm wide laser beam grew to 30 feet in
diameter by the time it had reached the shuttle today.  In
the test, the beam was reflected perfectly back to the ground,
and controllers were able to track the shuttle for over
2 minutes.

------------------------------

Date: 24 Jun 85 08:39:09 EDT
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: Nuclear Shuttle?
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

There was some work back in the 60's on nuclear rockets.  The idea is to
use a high temperature reactor to heat hydrogen, then expel the hydrogen
out a rocket nozzle.  The low molecular weight of the xhaust gives the
rocket really high Isp, potentially as high as 1200 (vs. ~400 for the SSME's).

This idea has problems.  It's hard to get a reactor powerful enough to lift
a rocket from the ground.  Temperatures and power densities in the reactor
have to be very high.  The rocket would be very nice for propelling a
mission to Mars, but that wasn't (and isn't) in the budget.

Some of the problems with a purely nuclear rocket may be avoided by using
a nuclear/chemical hybrid.  The idea here is to use a nuclear reactor
to preheat some of the chemical fuel before its injection into the
combustion chamber.  Since the preheated fuel need not be at exhaust
temperatures the temperature of the reactor can be lowered, easing some
of the engineering problems.  Also, the reactor need not supply all
the energy to the exhaust: even a (say) 20% contribution would raise
Isp significantly.  Since the amount of fuel needed is an exponential
function of Isp, there's a chance for real savings here.

What are the big problems here?  (1) reactor mass.  This can be minimized
by using a compact core of highly purified fissile materials.  Only a few
kg of U235 are needed, if properly moderated.  (2) Reactor shielding.
Neutron shielding should not be hard; we can afford to use exotic elements,
like gadolinium, with very high thermal neutron capture cross sections.
Gamma shielding is more of a problem.  The reactor should be at the back
of the rocket; personnel at the front, with fuel in between.  It may pay
to not use the reactor at full power until one is in less dense air to avoid
gamma rays reflected back from the atmosphere.  (3) Reactor waste.  Unlike
a nuclear power station, we can afford to replace and reprocess the core
very oftwen (perhaps after every flight).  This minimizes the quantity of
nuclear debris released should the rocket explode.  Waste from launch
decaying during the flight will produce waste heat that must be radiated
away, but since waste has not been builtup over long periods the power
level should not be too high (and we can use this heat for on-orbit power).
-------

------------------------------

Date: 24 Jun 1985 11:36:54 PDT
Subject: Mach
From: Alan R. Katz <KATZ@USC-ISIF.ARPA>
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: katz@USC-ISIF.ARPA


According to Asimov's Bibiliography of scientists, etc., Mach (of
Mach's principle) IS the same Mach as in Mach number.

By the way,  Mach greatly influenced Einstein in his thinking about
General Relativity.

		Alan

-------

------------------------------

Date: 24 Jun 85 09:23:05 EDT (Monday)
From: Caruso.Wbst@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #196: french Hermes shuttle
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Caruso.Wbst@Xerox.ARPA

>However you can bet the french Hermes shuttle will use something better.
It already has a glass cockpit almost like the planned AIRBUS 320`s.

   What are the french Hermes shuttle & AIRBUS 320 ?
   
Ray Caruso
Caruso'wbst@Xerox.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: 24 Jun 85 13:50:02 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: You know it's real when...
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

On STS-51F, Space Calendar reports:

	"The launch date has been moved up from 15 July to 12 July by
Lockheed managers to avoid weekend overtime pay."

------------------------------

Date: 24 Jun 85 14:18:52 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Shuttle Main Computers
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

Actually, the hydraulic voting is an elegant solution to the need for
redundancy and the avoidance of common mode failures. Each computer
independantly controls actuators. If one computer screws up, the other four
actuators present enough pressure to overcome. If two go one way, and 3 the
other, controls are mushy, but still function.

I do find the 120 pounds of computer a bit silly. I can only figure they
were used for DOD reasons. A commercial operation would NEVER have used such
aging hunks of antidilivian technology. For the weight cost of those things,
they could have 20 real computers. To put things in perspective, a few years
ago the astronauts took a Grid Compass PC on board.  The carry on machine
was the most powerful computer on board, and it fits into a brief case and
only takes half the depth.

I'd say (in 1985 off the shelf technology) each shuttle main computer
represents about one PC board of computer power, and probably less.  It's
getting to the point where you can walk into a Computerland and buy
peripherals that are nearly as powerful as the shuttle computers. (Like the
new Hayes modem).

Even the requirement for core can be nicely handled by battery back up or by
EPROM. (Although I'd personally recommend they buy Japaneses: the US EPROMS
I've worked with in a commercial environment had a serious bit dropping
rate. By that I mean that if you have 50 of them running for a month, you'd
probably have one or two that have leaky bits. I NEVER had a drop out from
the equivalent Japanese product. Of course that was five years ago, so maybe
the US manufacturers have learned how to make a decent PROM by now...)

------------------------------

Date: 24 Jun 85 15:28:17 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Modularity
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

I am continuously surprised by comments from the aerospace community that
lead one to believe that modularity and upward replacement are a new
discovery. Most of us on this net know that is not the case. A remember
arguing with a friend in the planetary sciences about the need for plug in
bus type satellites some years back, even before the Mariner Mk 4 was
brought up as a 'new' concept. Now I'm hearing that NASA has decided to
reinvent the concept again for the space station?

I am leading back to my comments on the space shuttle computers. IF the
shuttle electronics are designed to the standards which are considered
NORMAL in the computer industry, it should be possible to pull the box and
plug in another standard machine.

As an example of this philosophy, I point you to the DEC Q-Bus. Years ago
you got a quad hieght board that held a CPU, and another quad height board
for 4k of ram. The system has gone through growth and evolution to the point
where you can put the equivalent of an 11/70 in one slot and give it a few
meg of ram to play with using a couple more slots. And you can run the same
OS and programs you ran before, AND use the same peripherals you had before,
except that they are upward compatible and have evolved also.

I often suspect that the aerospace engineers have been used to such long
design cycles that they never have had to face obsolence so immediately and
personally as have those of us in the electronics rat race. I personally
went through 3 complete product line design cycles in less than 7 years at a
previous job as an R&D manager. It took that level of effort to keep our
noses even with the competition. You project the curves on RAM density, and
target your systems to reach prototype when the vendors are sampling, and to
go into production when the first production runs start.

When you deal with that kind of cycle, modifiability and upgrading become a
way of life and a PRIMARY concern of the design effort, not an interesting
abstraction. You may have to change parts in the middle of the stream
because of availability problems, pricing, changing market requirements, the
mood of the CEO's wife last night...

Once you have learned this mode of thinking, anyone who designs otherwise
seems extremely amateurish and quite foolish.

			What's future shock? Hasn't everything ALWAYS been
			changing every year?

				Dale Amon

------------------------------

Date: 24 Jun 85 09:23:19 EDT (Monday)
From: Caruso.Wbst@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #196: french Hermes shuttle
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Caruso.Wbst@Xerox.ARPA

>However you can bet the french Hermes shuttle will use something better.
It already has a glass cockpit almost like the planned AIRBUS 320`s.

   What are the french Hermes shuttle & AIRBUS 320 ?
   
Ray Caruso
Caruso.wbst@Xerox.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Jun 85 17:29 PDT
From: Christopher Garrigues <7thSon@CERRIDWYN.SSF.Symbolics.COM>
Reply-To: 7thSon@SCRC-STONY-BROOK.ARPA
Subject: Care to add me to spaaaaace?
To: Space@MIT-MC.ARPA
Reply-To: 7THSON@RUSSIAN.SPA.Symbolics.COM

Hi there,
	I'm told that SPACE is an interesting mailing list.  If this is
true, I'd like to be added, if it isn't, well....add me anyway.


Chris Garrigues
-------

------------------------------

Date:           Mon, 24 Jun 85 20:52:33 PDT
From:           Richard K. Jennings <jennings@AEROSPACE.ARPA>
To:             Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Subject:        July Byte

	I JUST got a copy of the July BYTE.  In addition to the normal
fare, it also contains the following articles (reproduced below so all
you space fans who don't subscribe will run out and buy one before they
are all gone):
	Programming Project: New Perspectives on Nearby Stars (Macintosh)

	Updating the Oldest Science (Observers around the globe are using
microcomputers in a variety of astronomical observations)

	Microcomputers in NASA's SIR-B (The Shuttle Imaging Radar
experiment enjoys a network of personal computers for data acquisition
and analysis)

	Comet Lines in Fortran (The program described calculates the
positions of asteroids and comets)

	Tracking Earth Satellites (The Stumpff program can help you calculate
earth-orbiting satellite positions with high precision)

	Automating a Telescope (Codirector of the Fairborn Observatory 
describes ways of computerizing the repetitious tasks in variable
star photometry)

	Astronautical Computing with Micros (Small Systems increase the
amateur astronomer's reach)

	Monitoring Halley's Comet [Review] (Three programs for tracking
the return of the celestial visitor)

	Space-Flight Simulators [Review-Apple] (Link up with a Space Station
or travel to Saturn)

	The software is not listed in BYTE, but is in the Public Domain,
and offered through the BYTE BB (617-861-9774).  Does this net have
a software archive that some New Hampshire resident could dump these
programs into?

Rich.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #198
*******************
!29-Jun-85  1550	@MIT-MC.ARPA:Purtill.SIPB@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA 	Re: Shuttle computers
Received: from MIT-MC.ARPA by S1-A.ARPA with TCP; 29 Jun 85  15:38:07 PDT
Received: from MIT-MULTICS.ARPA by MIT-MC.ARPA 27 Jun 85 23:17:58 EST
Date:  Thu, 27 Jun 85 18:42 EDT
From:  Mark Purtill <Purtill@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>
Subject:  Re: Shuttle computers
To:  space@MIT-MC.ARPA
Message-ID:  <850627224207.719135@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>

<Fnord>
Those of you who have been wondering about the space shuttles computers
might want to chack out the September, 1984, issue of the Communications
of the ACM.  It's got a special section on "computing in space,"
including an interview with some of the people at IBM who developed the
computers.  For instance, it tells one that each computer weighs about
120 lbs (55 kg) and that there are five, one of which is a backup which
runs special software written independently by Rockwell.  It seems to go
into detail about how the four main computers communicate and vote and
such like (I haven't actually read it yet, not having the time.)


       Mark
^.-.^  Purtill at MIT-MULTICS.ARPA    **Insert favorite disclaimer here**
(("))  2-032 MIT Cambrige MA 02139

30-Jun-85  0400	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #199    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 199

Today's Topics:
		     "The Dream is Alive" IMAX movie
		      Re: Who are Mach and Hawking?
		  FLASH! NASA enters the digital age!...
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
		      Re: Who are Mach and Hawking?
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
				 Landing
		       IMAX and the Shuttle flights
			Shuttle computer questions
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
			    The Dream is Alive
			 Space Shuttle Computers
			    Spartan Retrieved
			      Space Whoopee
		Duplication of NASA news service articles
			  No Damage to Discovery
			     Mach's Principle
			 Shuttle computer systems
			    Re: Shoot the Moon
			  becoming an astronaut
		      Planned Soviet Phobos probe  
			 Possible Solar Systems  
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!wanginst!apollo!eric
From: apollo!eric (Eric Peters)
Subject: "The Dream is Alive" IMAX movie
Date: 26 Jun 85 20:11:37 GMT
Organization: Apollo Computer, Chelmsford, Mass.

"The Dream is Alive", the new IMAX movie about the shuttle was released
to the public last weekend, and I was lucky enough to be invited by the
Smithsonian to see it.

First the one-word review:

   WOW!!!

More detail:

See this film if there is any way possible!  I think it will do more to
revive interest in space and confidence in ourselves than any prior
event, including the moon landings.  What kept going through my mind as
I sat watching was "This is real!"  And in spite of the fact that it's
"only a movie", it has fantastic impact.

There are several launch scenes, including one from the tower right next
to the spacecraft.  The sound, by Ben Burtt of Lucasfilm, is terrific.
Good Lord!!!  The launches alone will make a believer of you.

There is one landing scene from the point of view of the shuttle pilot.
If you've ever flown a landing in a conventional aircraft, you'll appre-
ciate what a 30-degree approach angle is.  It feels like riding a rock
out of a catapult!

There is some time taken with astronaut training exercises, and for the
most part, I didn't find them too interesting.  The swimming pool in
Houston where they practice working in "zero-g" is huge, but just a
swimming pool after all.  There is one training scene worth seeing, but
I don't want to spoil it.  You'll know it when you see it.

A lot of the film is of day-to-day activities in the spacecraft, and this
I found fascinating.  The little blurry images we see on TV of the astro-
nauts give almost no feeling of what it's like to be there. This movie
fixes that problem.  After a while, I even began to get used to people
standing around at odd orientations and flying through hatchways in
floors, walls, and ceilings.

There was also a fair amount of time spent looking out the windows.
There are a number of scenes of activity in the cargo bay, including the
repairs on Solar Max.  And the Earth is gorgeous!  From shuttle altitude,
high mountains stand out in clear relief, and a lot of detail of human
civilization is visible.  A good deal of time was spent just letting the
Earth glide by outside, and it is wonderful!

A comment I heard while leaving the theater:  "I may be afraid of flying,
but I WANT TO GO!"  I can only add now I want to go too!

So SEE THIS MOVIE, if you care anything about space!

Eric Peters  (...decvax!wanginst!apollo!eric)
Apollo Computer Inc.,   Chelmsford, MA 01824

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!trwatf!rlgvax!prcrs!hadron!klr
From: hadron!klr (Kurt L. Reisler)
Subject: Re: Who are Mach and Hawking?
Date: 23 Jun 85 13:37:37 GMT
Reply-To: klr@hadron.UUCP (Kurt L. Reisler)
Organization: Hadron, Inc., Fairfax, VA

In article <2366@mordor.UUCP> @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC.ARPA:FRIEDRICH%GAV@LLL-MFE.ARPA writes:
>From: FRIEDRICH%GAV@LLL-MFE.ARPA
>
>A question a couple of days ago asked, in effect, "who are Mach and Hawking,
>and what do they know?"
>

>Now, for something completely different.  Mach's Principle remains a
>conjecture only.  Stephen Hawking is another story.  Hawking is, in my
>own humble opinion (and that of many others) the world's greatest living
>astrophysicist.  Unfortunately, he has a degenerative nerve disease that
>has crippled and is slowly killing him.  He does his mathematics in his
>head and dictates to graduate students who have been specially trained
>to understand his speech (mostly by experience, I gather).  Charles River
>Data Systems of Natick, Massachusetts, deserves a great big hearty THANKS
>for donating a supermicro or two to Hawking, which will probably help him
>communicate with others.
>

I, for one, am glad to hear that Stephen Hawking is still in there fighting!
It is good to know that this great mind is great in spirit as well!

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!ames!eugene
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: FLASH! NASA enters the digital age!...
Date: 26 Jun 85 01:01:06 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

Wow!  They installed a push button phone in my office while I went to
Usenix.  It took NASA decades to reach this point, and I beat the
Chief Engineer whom still has to rotate.  Ames has an ESS #1 [if you
can believe that].  Now if I can only get them to buy me a Xerox Dorado.....

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,decwrl,allegra}!ames!aurora!eugene
  @ames-vmsb.ARPA:emiya@jup.DECNET

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!brl-tgr!ron
From: ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron@brl-tgr.ARPA>)
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 26 Jun 85 03:55:44 GMT
Organization: Ballistic Research Lab

> Aerospace museum in the IMAX theatre. The films really have to be seen to be
> believed. What I would like to know is if any more recent film has been produced
> than "Hail Columbia". I remember seeing the IMAX cameras on board the Shuttles
> from news shorts, and I hope to see some results from that while I am there.
> While I am at it, does anyone know anywhere else that IMAX films are being 
> shown? 
> 
The new movie, filmed from IMAX cameras aboard the shuttle is called 
"The Dream is Alive" and is showing at NASM.  By the way, cine freaks
should find their way up into the projection room, looking at the
projector close up is obligatory.

-Ron

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!cybvax0!frog!john
From: frog!john (John Woods)
Subject: Re: Who are Mach and Hawking?
Date: 25 Jun 85 16:07:06 GMT
Organization: Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA

> From: FRIEDRICH%GAV@LLL-MFE.ARPA
> A question a couple of days ago asked, in effect, "who are Mach and Hawking,
> and what do they know?"
> 
> Now, for something completely different.  Mach's Principle remains a
> conjecture only.  Stephen Hawking is another story.  Hawking is, in my
> own humble opinion (and that of many others) the world's greatest living
> astrophysicist.  Unfortunately, he has a degenerative nerve disease that
> has crippled and is slowly killing him.  He does his mathematics in his
> head and dictates to graduate students who have been specially trained
> to understand his speech (mostly by experience, I gather).  Charles River
> Data Systems of Natick, Massachusetts, deserves a great big hearty THANKS
> for donating a supermicro or two to Hawking, which will probably help him
> communicate with others.
> 
The book "Stephen Hawking's Universe", by I forget which author, tells a lot
of fascinating tales about Dr. Hawking.  Not only does he do mathematics in
his head, but he has an immense memory for text:  the book tells of one time
when, three days after dictating several chapters of a latest book to his
secretary, told her to correct a couple of words in a specific paragraph of
a specific page, which he suddenly realized he had mis-dictated!

One can, in fact, understand Dr. Hawking without a lot of trouble, at least
if the room is quiet and you try real hard; when Dr. Hawking visited CRDS a
while back (to express thanks for the machine [CRDS, in some meta-sense, also
happily accepts your thanks, too :-)], drop off bug reports, and to show off
a video tape about him made by the BBC), I also found that I could tell most
of what he was saying -- though I was glad of the interpreter, as I wanted
to be sure!  (As an ex-physics student, I revelled in the chance to worship
at the feet of a god!-)


--
John Woods, Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA, (617) 626-1101
...!decvax!frog!john, ...!mit-eddie!jfw, jfw%mit-ccc@MIT-XX.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!trwatf!rlgvax!prcrs!hadron!klr
From: hadron!klr (Kurt L. Reisler)
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 27 Jun 85 14:23:23 GMT
Reply-To: klr@hadron.UUCP (Kurt L. Reisler)
Organization: Hadron, Inc., Fairfax, VA

In article <1306@islenet.UUCP> tracyw@islenet.UUCP (Tracy Walters) writes:
>I'm going to be in the Washington D.C. area for the month of July attending a
>Data Comm school, and plan on (as always) going to the Smithsonian to gawk at
>all the exhibits. The last time I was there I spent one whole day in the 
>Aerospace museum in the IMAX theatre. The films really have to be seen to be
>believed. ...I would like to know is if any more recent film has been produced
>than "Hail Columbia". I remember seeing the IMAX cameras on board the Shuttles
>from news shorts, and I hope to see some results from that while I am there.
>While I am at it, does anyone know anywhere else that IMAX films are being 
>shown? 
>
>Thanks,
>Tracyw @ Islenet, Inc., Honolulu, HI.
>MCI Mail: 231-8682

 "The Dream is Alive" is the latest.  I have only heard the ROAR of the
 liftoff from the lobby of the theater.  Get to the NASM (National Air & 
 Space Museum) EARLY!  Tickets for this movie sell out VERY fast.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!pbear!peterb
From: pbear!peterb
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 27 Jun 85 17:57:00 GMT


> One of the problems that they had filming the movie was the gyroscopic
> effect of the film reels in the camera.  Seems it was difficult to move the
> camera out of the plane of rotation.  Note that the camera can eat 1000 feet
> of film in a matter of 3 minutes.
> -- 
> Louis A. Mamakos WA3YMH   University of Maryland, Computer Science Center

One simple way to fix that is to have the film reels turn in oppisite
directions. This way the gyroscopic effect is almost cancelled.

Since they are going to make a newer camera, I don't see much difficulty
in modifying the take up reel so that it spins backwards...

Peter Barada
{ihnp4!inmet|{harvard|cca}!ima}!pbear!peterb

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxm!sftig!sftri!sfmag!eagle!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Landing
Date: 25 Jun 85 03:01:36 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

At 0912 EDT today, right on scheduled, the Discovery touched
down in a flawless landing at EAFB.  NASA officials initially
stated worry over a six inch track in the sand runway that
they feared was due to locked brakes; later, though, it was
announced that there was no brake damage on this flight --
the track was due to wet spots in the sand.  However, NASA
said that this landing was rough enough that had it been
at KSC, another blown tire would probably have resulted.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!islenet!tracyw
From: islenet!tracyw (Tracy Walters)
Subject: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 23 Jun 85 13:32:13 GMT
Organization: Islenet Inc.,  Honolulu

I'm going to be in the Washington D.C. area for the month of July attending a
Data Comm school, and plan on (as always) going to the Smithsonian to gawk at
all the exhibits. The last time I was there I spent one whole day in the 
Aerospace museum in the IMAX theatre. The films really have to be seen to be
believed. What I would like to know is if any more recent film has been produced
than "Hail Columbia". I remember seeing the IMAX cameras on board the Shuttles
from news shorts, and I hope to see some results from that while I am there.
While I am at it, does anyone know anywhere else that IMAX films are being 
shown? 

Thanks,
Tracyw @ Islenet, Inc., Honolulu, HI.
MCI Mail: 231-8682

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-monet!fisher
From: fisher@monet.DEC
Subject: Shuttle computer questions
Date: 25 Jun 85 13:22:41 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network


For an excellent article about the shuttle computer system, see CACM,
September 1984.  Of course, I can't find the article now, but AP101 sounds like
the right model for the computers.

One of the reasons that these things are so old is that the lead time for
developing a thing so complex as the shuttle is enormous.  Remember that the
shuttle project was firing up way back in the early to mid 70s.  (You know,
IBM 360 and 370 time?)  Once you start making major design decisions you
have to freeze the design using then-current technology...you can't continue
to track it.  No 68020s back then!  (Were there even 6502s?)

In any case, I have read somewhere (probably Aviation Week) that there is a
program to upgrade the shuttle computers.  I don't recall whether it is just
in the planning stages, or if it is funded, or what.

BTW, core (or at least plated wire) is still alive and well in spacecraft.
You can't beat it for cosmic-ray immunity and power-fail memory retention!

Burns


	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!cvl!umd5!louie
From: umd5!louie
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 26 Jun 85 17:27:03 GMT
Reply-To: louie@umd5.UUCP (Louis Mamakos)
Organization: U of Md, CSC, College Park, Md
Summary: "The Dream Is Alive" - New IMAX flick

Keywords:

The new IMAX flick is being shown at the Smithsonian's National Air 
and Space Museum in Washington, DC.  Most of the footage was filmed 
by the shuttle astronauts over 3 missions.  It is simply wonderful! 
Not to be missed if you've got the opportunity to see it.

I was at a special screening of the film last night for the Smithsonian
Resident Associates, and one of the gentlemen involved in creating the film
said that all parties involved (NASA, the Smithsonian, and privite industry)
are very pleased with the film, and are all set to do another.  He said
(off the record) that the Space Telescope mission might be the subject of
the next film.  In addition, he was talking about a new IMAX camera, with
a larger film capacity which would also be space rated.  This means that it
could be carried on EVA excursions or just mounted on the shuttle's arm.

One of the problems that they had filming the movie was the gyroscopic
effect of the film reels in the camera.  Seems it was difficult to move the
camera out of the plane of rotation.  Note that the camera can eat 1000 feet
of film in a matter of 3 minutes.
-- 
Louis A. Mamakos WA3YMH   University of Maryland, Computer Science Center
 Internet: louie@umd5.arpa
 UUCP: {seismo!umcp-cs, ihnp4!rlgvax}!cvl!umd5!louie

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!gamma!pyuxww!pyuxqq!pyuxh!jrm1
From: pyuxh!jrm1 (J McKeel)
Subject: The Dream is Alive
Date: 25 Jun 85 13:31:08 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Piscataway, NJ

The Dream is Alive is a 30 - 35 minute documentary of the space shuttle.
I just returned from Washington, DC where the Smithsonian Institute is
showing the film.

The film is shown on the Smithsonian's giant wall screen.  It shows
actual footage of launches, deployments, life in space, etc.  The
film is unlike the garbled pictures we see on TV.  It was quite an
experience.

Entry to the Smithsonian is free, but the film costs $1.50 (well worth
it).  If you want any more information, reply via e-mail to:

John McKeel
ihnp4!pyuxh!jrm1

"I wouldn't eat Astronaut Ice Cream, would you?"

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-dvinci!fisher
From: fisher@dvinci.DEC
Subject: Space Shuttle Computers
Date: 28 Jun 85 14:00:09 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network

<>
> ...the fifth one is different from the other 4; it is made by Rockwell...

I could be proven wrong, but I am quite sure that all 5 cpus are the same.
The fifth one, however, was PROGRAMMED by Rockwell rather than IBM.  The 
quintuple hardware redundancy provides backup for hardware failure.  The 
separate program for #5 provides a backup for the software.

BTW, the 5 computers only run as a quintuple redundant set during critical
phases of the mission (ascent and decent, and perhaps during some of the
prelaunch activities).  At other times, they are decoupled and given separate
tasks, with only double or triple redundancy for such things as orbital
calculations, environment management, and running the arm.

Burns


	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Spartan Retrieved
Date: 23 Jun 85 00:30:26 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The crew of the shuttle Discovery today successfully recovered
the Spartan-1 satellite and stowed it back in the payload bay
for return to Earth.  A grappling pin on the satellite was
slightly out of position, and the RMS had to be extended to
its 50 foot limit twice in order to grab the satellite.

Landing is set for 0914 EDT Monday at Rogers Dry Lake, EAFB.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 85 12:45 PDT
From: LShilkoff.ES@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Space Whoopee
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: LShilkoff.es@Xerox.ARPA

I just heard on the radio NASA is planning for experiments involving
intimate relations on board the future space station with married
couples and couples with "significant relationships". 

Question: How do you avoid moving from a stationary point in space while
having intimate relations.

I understand the first space based birth control device will be called
the heat shield :-)


sorryijusthadto


Larry

 

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-monet!fisher
From: fisher@monet.DEC
Subject: Duplication of NASA news service articles
Date: 25 Jun 85 13:27:01 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network

<>

I don't intend this to be a flame...please take it as the helpful request
which it is intended to be.

Yesterday I got at least 9 copies of the Nasa news network article!  In 
addition, today I got another copy. Today's was not identical;  it
did have several duplicate sub-articles, however.  None of my other articles
were duplicated, so I don't think the problem is local.  Has anyone else
had this problem?  Does anyone know how to fix it?

Thanks,

Burns



	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!spuxll!abnji!u1100a!pyuxww!gamma!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: No Damage to Discovery
Date: 26 Jun 85 04:28:01 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

With the exception of around 70 chipped tiles, the Discovery
suffered no damage during its mission, NASA reported today.
The shuttle is to be returned to KSC in three days and readied
for its next flight, on 24 August.  The Challenger is to lift
off on 14 July.

------------------------------

Date: 27 Jun 85 03:19:58 EDT
From: Dave.Touretzky@CMU-CS-A
Subject: Mach's Principle
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

From the June 22nd issue of Science News, page 389:

"Ernst Mach, who was both a theoretical physicist and a philosopher of science,
worked out what became known as Mach's Principle.  As Mach was a philosopher,
different commentators differ as to what it was he actually said, but in the
most general sense Mach's Principle proposes that the mass of any body is
related to the masses of all the other bodies in the universe.  This means
that if the geometrical relationship between a given body and the rest of the
universe changes, the mass of the given body will change."

The article goes on to explain how Mach's Principle appears to violate
Einstein's theory of relativity.  A recent test conducted by NBS (the
latest in a long string of tests of Einstein's theory) produced results
consistent with relativity theory; no mass change was detected.  However,
some scientists apparently feel that Einstein didn't disregard Mach's
Principle; rather, he interpreted it in a way which causes it to cancel
itself out.  Thus, the universe could still exhibit Local Lorentz Invariance
(as predicted by relativity) without contradicting Mach.

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 27 Jun 85 11:09 MST
From:  Charlie Spitzer <Spitzer@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA>
Subject:  Shuttle computer systems
Reply-To:  Spitzer%pco@CISL-SERVICE-MULTICS.ARPA
To:  Space@MIT-MC.ARPA

See Communications of the ACM, Sept 1984 issue for an interview with
Tony Macina, manager of flight operations for IBM's On-board Space
Shuttle Program.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!decwrl!sun!amdahl!ems
From: amdahl!ems (ems)
Subject: Re: Shoot the Moon
Date: 26 Jun 85 21:55:21 GMT
Organization: Circle C Shellfish Ranch, Shores-of-the-Pacific, Ca

> From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
> 
> The Apollo missions revealed one serious obstacle to lunar colonization
> and exploitation: an almost total lack of volatile elements in lunar
> rock.  There is very little carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen or halogens;
> even lead is seriously depleted.  [ ... ]
> 
> At any rate, this is a serious obstacle to any would-be colonist.  Hydrogen
> is necessary for water, food and rocket fuel.  Carbon and nitrogen are
> needed for food and plastics.  Fluorine is vital in the chemical processing
> of lunar materials.
> 
> Delivering this material to the moon by rocket is expensive, even with
> advanced orbital transfer vehicles.  [ ... ]

Are there not enough protons in the solar wind to provide hydrogen?
Or do we lack the technology to combine the protons with electrons
efficiently?
-- 

E. Michael Smith  ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems

This is the obligatory disclaimer of everything. (Including but
not limited to: typos, spelling, diction, logic, and nuclear war)

------------------------------

From: <crash!usiiden!markf@Nosc>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 85 07:56:42 PDT
To: crash!noscvax!space@mit-mc
Subject: becoming an astronaut

NASA this summer will change the way in which it solicits 
applications for astronaut positions. * Applications from 
civilians will be accepted on a continuing basis beginning Aug. 
1, 1985. The military service will provide nominees to NASA on an 
annual basis. Selection usually will be made in the spring each 
yr. with successful candidates reporting in the summer. * The 
number of candidates selected each yr. will be determined by 
mission requirements and the attrition rate of the astronaut 
corp. * Both pilots and mission specialist astronauts will be 
selected. Pilot astronauts are responsible for control of the 
Space Shuttle during launch and entry and on-orbit maneuvers. 
Mission specialists responsibilities include management and 
operation of Space Shuttle systems and support to payloads and 
experiment during flight. * Min Requirements Pilot: -A bachelor's 
degree from an accredited institution in engineering, physical 
science, biological science or mathematics. -1,000 hours pilot in 
command time in jet aircraft. -ability to pass a NASA Class I 
flight physical. -height 64 to 76 inches. Min Req.Mission Spec: -
a bachelors degree from an accredited inst. in engineering, 
physical sciences, biological science or math. -degree must be 
supplemented by three yrs. of related professional experience. 
Advanced degrees are desirable and may be substituted for 
experience. -ability to pass a NASA Class II flight physical. -
height 60 to 76 inches. * NASA has an affirmative action goal of 
including qualified minorities and women among newly selected 
astronauts. For further information write -> NASA Johnson Space 
Center AHX/Astronaut Selection Office Houston, TX 77058 **from Intercomex Bulletin Board
crash!usiiden!markf@nosc

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jun 85  1906 PDT
From: Ross Finlayson <RSF@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: Planned Soviet Phobos probe  
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

BC-MARS
(SCIENCETIMES)
By WALTER SULLIVAN
c. 1985 N.Y. Times News Service
    NEW YORK - In contrast an earlier reluctance of the Russians to
provide advance information on space flights, they have provided
Western scientists with extensive details on the Soviet Union's 1988
mission to Mars.
     One of its highlights will be a 15-minute period when the
spacecraft will hover 50 yards above the surface of Phobos, the
planet's inner moon.
     Using a technique never before attempted in space, the craft will
bombard the surface of Phobos with a narrow laser beam to blast off
samples that can be captured and analyzed aboard the probe. According
to the project plan, the beam will be so narrow that a succession of
areas no larger than a pinhead will be sampled.
     Participating in that experiment, according to the latest Soviet
description, will be the Max Planck Institute for Aeronomy at Lindau,
near Gottingen, West Germany, as well as institutes in Bulgaria and
the Soviet Union. The Lindau institute also contributed instruments
to the Soviet Union's Vega missions to Venus.
     Under consideration, according to Soviet scientists, is the
dropping of an instrumented device onto Phobos that could jump from
place to place. Because Phobos is so small its gravity field is
extremely weak. The lifting power of a grasshopper's legs should be
sufficient to propel the hopping lander.
     Phobos is an irregular, heavily cratered object whose diameter
ranges from 12 to 17 miles. It is suspected that it was originally an
asteroid captured in orbit by the gravity of Mars.
     Circulation by the Russians of details on the Phobos mission may
have been necessitated by its inclusion of at least 19 experiments
from a wide range of agencies, including the European Space Agency
and institutes in Austria, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Finland, France,
Hungary, East and West Germany and Sweden.
     Such a large number of participants reflects the remarkable
diversity of goals envisioned for the mission. They include orbital
gamma ray and infrared scanning of both Phobos and Mars to determine
regional differences in their surface composition. Similar scanning
is planned for the Mars Observer planned by the United States for
1990.
     As pointed out last week by Dr. Michael H. Carr of the United
States Geological Survey, a specialist in Martian geology, the
composition of its surface has only been measured at the two
locations where Viking spacecraft landed in 1976. Pessimism regarding
the possibility that life once existed on the planet has been based
largely on the absence of any organic material in the samples
analyzed there.
     Others unwilling to give up hope in that regard argue that far more
extensive sampling is needed to settle the issue. While infrared
radiation from the Martian surface will provide clues to its
composition it will not compare to the detailed information obtained
by the Viking landers or from the projected Phobos probes. Analysis
of gamma rays emitted by radioactive surface material as well as
those generated in such material by cosmic ray bombardment will add
further information.
     In addition to the laser experiment the surface of Phobos will be
scanned by three television cameras. For additional information about
its composition it will be bombarded by neutrons and by a beam of
electrically charged krypton atoms.
     As with particles thrown up by the laser, composition of the
material blasted toward the spacecraft by the krypton will be
determined by a mass spectrometer. This Austrian-French-West
German-Soviet experiment will penetrate only one tenth as deep as the
laser, which will sample to one millionth of a meter. A radar will
feel out structural features to depths as great as 650 feet within
Phobos.
     Measurements of the Martian atmosphere, magnetic field and
electrified upper atmosphere are planned as well as recordings, en
route, of such phenomena as the outflow of gas from the sun, cosmic
radiation, gamma ray bursts from beyond the solar system and shock
waves flowing through interplanetary space. A variety of solar
observations are planned, including efforts to detect pulsations of
the sun that have become a focus of special interest.
     It should be possible to keep the spacecraft close to Phobos for 15
or 20 minutes by having the spacecraft's orbital motion around Mars
almost match that of the Martian moon. The prospectus mentions
placing a ''long-standing'' lander on Phobos as well as the hopping
lander. It calls for seismic tests to determine the moon's internal
structure. This may mean that the hopper will generate shock waves
for recording by the stationary lander.
     A relatively rapid, 200-day flight time from the Earth is planned,
thanks to the power of Soviet boosters.
    
nyt-06-25-85 1008edt
**********

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jun 85  2137 PDT
From: Ron Goldman <ARG@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: Possible Solar Systems  
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

a035  0233  28 Jun 85
PM-Other Worlds,0658
NASA Astronomer Expands List Of Possible Solar Systems
By LEE SIEGEL
AP Science Writer
    FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. (AP) - A NASA astronomer says he has evidence eight
more nearby stars are surrounded by material that could hide planets
and he predicts scientists eventually will discover 1,000 such stars
orbited by planets, asteroids, comets or the dust that could form
them.
    The evidence comes from a new analysis of observations of 500 nearby
stars by the orbiting Infrared Astronomical Satellite, or IRAS, said
Hartmut H.G. Aumann, of the agency's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in
Pasadena, Calif.
    The stars are known as nearby stars because they are within 75 light
years of Earth. That's about 441 trillion miles - considered close to
Earth by astronomical standards.
    Aumann outlined his findings Thursday at the annual meeting of the
Astronomical Society of the Pacific.
    Astronomers believe that our solar system formed when a giant cloud
of dust and gas collapsed into clumps of material to create the sun,
the planets and orbiting asteroids and comets.
    Many also believe it is reasonable to expect that solar systems
formed the same way around other stars under the proper conditions.
Under less favorable conditions, the initial dust-and-gas cloud might
not congeal into planets, but simply remain in the form of dust or
small bodies.
    Aumann's conclusions increase to 12 the number of nearby stars
studied by IRAS that are believed to be surrounded by so-called
proto-planetary material.
    Non-IRAS studies have indicated two other stars - HL Tau and R
Monceritos - may be surrounded by dust or larger bodies. And last
December, astronomers observed what may be a Jupiter-like planet
around the star Van Biesbroeck 8.
    So astronomers now believe 15 stars are orbited by at least dust,
and possibly by asteroids, comets and planets.
    The National Aeronautics and Space Administration announced in June
1984 that Aumann had identified more than 40 stars he suspected might
be surrounded by proto-planetary material.
    At the time, he and other scientists were nearly certain such
material orbited four of those stars: Vega, Beta Pictoris, Epsilon
Eridani and Fomalhaut.
    Another analysis by Aumann showed IRAS would be unable to detect
material that might surround dimmer stars, suggesting many more
''proto-solar systems'' might exist than can be detected with current
technology.
    ''There's a good chance that half the (2,000 known) nearby stars
eventually will be found to have material around them in significant
quantities that's either dusty or has accreted into planets,'' Aumann
said.
    Don McCarthy, a University of Arizona astronomer who last year
observed the possible planet around Van Biesbroeck 8, said he agreed
with Aumann.
    ''It's a fair prediction that most stars have material around them
in the form of debris or planets,'' he said. ''It could easily be the
result of a common process.''
    IRAS is capable of detecting such material, particularly dust,
because it measures infrared radiation, or heat, emitted by the
material as it is warmed by the central star.
    IRAS cannot detect planets because they don't emit enough heat. So
astronomers who used IRAS can only infer the possible existence of
planets around stars surrounded by heat-emitting dust.
    Aumann said he initially placed more than 40 stars on the suspected
proto-solar system list because their apparent excess heat emissions
suggested material orbited them. Using a tighter definition of excess
heat emission, he narrowed the list and concluded that eight of the
stars, plus the original four, were likely to be orbited by solid
material.
    Aumann said the eight are Iota Eridani, Gamma Dorado, Beta Ursa
Major, Beta Leonis, Alpha Corona Borealis, Gamma Serpentis and stars
designated G-196 and G-838.
    His second analysis concluded that many dimmer stars would emit too
little heat to warm surrounding material enough to be be detected by
IRAS. So it is conceivable they too are proto-solar systems, he said.
    
AP-NY-06-28-85 0531EDT
***************

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #199
*******************

01-Jul-85  0351	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #200    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 200

Today's Topics:
			Re: Antigravity References
		    IMAX movie with shots from shuttle
			   Re:  Shuttle on CNN
			       STS schedule
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!tekcrl!vice!keithl
From: vice!keithl (Keith Lofstrom)
Subject: Re: Antigravity References
Date: 28 Jun 85 22:01:52 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR


   
   In article <2295@mordor.UUCP>, jennings@AEROSPACE.ARPA mentions
a gravitational oscillation "with a period of 24 hours, 50 minutes
with a magnitude of 10e-6g".  The author of the paper he cites suggested
a new theory of gravity was needed.

   The period mentioned just happens to be the time the Earth takes
to make one revolution RELATIVE TO THE MOON.  Hmmm...perhaps he made this
"Earth-shaking" discovery in a lab without windows...

   Gravitational fields are inverse square, and gravitational gradients
are equal to the derivative of this field.  This means that the lunar
gravitational effect is a little stronger on the near side of the Earth
than on the far side or at the center.  That's the source of tides.

   Computationally, the size of the effect at the equator is only 1.1e-7g.
This assumes a rigid Earth and no gravitational effects from tidally shifting
oceans and atmosphere, though.  Any astronomers care to pick up the
ball (wait 'til after moonrise; it's easier then :-), and do a better
calculation?

Newtonianly yours;


-- 
Keith Lofstrom
MS 59-316, Tektronix, PO 500, Beaverton OR 97077  (503)-627-4052
uucp:	{ucbvax,decvax,chico,pur-ee,cbosg,ihnss}!tektronix!vice!keithl
CSnet:	keithl@tek
ARPAnet:keithl.tek@rand-relay

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!fortune!olson
From: fortune!olson (Dave Olson)
Subject: IMAX movie with shots from shuttle
Date: 29 Jun 85 05:17:07 GMT
Reply-To: olson@fortune.UUCP (Dave olson)
Organization: Fortune Systems, Redwood City, CA
Keywords: IMAX,movie

The long promised IMAX movie with shots actually taken aboard the
shuttle in space is out!  (I believe it was first discussed
here about 6 months ago.)

It opened today at Great America amusement park in Santa Clara, CA.
Since it was sponsored/produced by the Smithsonian, I assume it has
or shortly will appear there as well.

The movie has some truly great sequences, although it spends a bit
too much time on shuttle launches (that is, if you've already seen
Hail, Columbia).  Some of the sequences include the 'rescue' of the
Solar Max satellite, although not of the actual 'rescue'.

Hope this isn't a redundant posting, we've had problems with one
of our main news feeds lately.

	Dave Olson, Fortune Systems
	UUCP: {ihnp4,ucbvax!dual}!fortune!olson
	ARPA: dual!fortune!olson@BERKELEY

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!hou2h!hhs
From: hou2h!hhs (H.SHARP)
Subject: Re:  Shuttle on CNN
Date: 28 Jun 85 19:23:03 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ

From what I understand, CNN shows continuous (or almost continuous)
coverage of shuttle missions.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mgnetp!mgweed!prg
From: mgweed!prg (Phil Gunsul)
Subject: STS schedule
Date: 26 Jun 85 22:20:22 GMT
Organization: AT&T Consumer Products - Montgomery Illinois

[..BUG!!]

On one of the earlier shuttle flights, someone posted a schedule
of televised events that would appear on one of the satellites.
I believe that schedule was obtained from a 'bulletin board'.
Could someone out there PLEASE post the telephone number of the
bulletin board or tell me where I can obtain a schedule of
the next flight???


I watched as much of the transmissions as possible on Satcom F1R,
transponder 18, but as you can imagine, it took an tremendous
amount of watching not having a schedule to follow.

Someone please help, the imprint of the World map with little
sine waves is still imprinted on my eyeballs!!

Phil Gunsul -- ATTIS  (312) 859-4485 -- Montgomery Works

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 28 Jun 85 20:31:15 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The film from the IMAX shuttle trips debuted at the Smithsonian
last Friday.  It is called ''The Dream is Alive,'' is 37 minutes
long, and is being shown there 10 times daily.  It is a must see.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #200
*******************

02-Jul-85  0350	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #201    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 201

Today's Topics:
	      Discovery Returns to KSC -- Challenger to Pad
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
			    Re: Shoot the Moon
	     Re: Shuttle Computers and STS power consumption
	       A physics/space problem beyond my abilities
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
			  Antigravity References
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Discovery Returns to KSC -- Challenger to Pad
Date: 29 Jun 85 15:00:39 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The Discovery returned atop a 747 Friday to KSC, where it
will be prepared for its next flight.

Challenger is to be moved to pad 39A today for its 12 July
launch.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!cbosgd!clyde!watmath!water!watcgl!mwherman
From: watcgl!mwherman (Michael W. Herman)
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 29 Jun 85 13:34:17 GMT
Organization: Computer Graphics Laboratory, U of Waterloo, Ontario

>                                               By the way, cine freaks
> should find their way up into the projection room, looking at the
> projector close up is obligatory.

If you are ever in St. Paul, MN, their IMAX projector is in a glass room that
you walk by on the way into the theatre.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Shoot the Moon
Date: 29 Jun 85 23:05:13 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

> Are there not enough protons in the solar wind to provide hydrogen?

The solar wind is mostly protons.  Unfortunately, it is far, far too
thin to be of any use.  The necessary collecting areas are immense.
-- 
"Maturity means doing what's right, not just what's easy."

				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!tektronix!hplabs!ames!aurora!al
From: aurora!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Re: Shuttle Computers and STS power consumption
Date: 27 Jun 85 01:03:39 GMT
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

> 
>         A recent posting about  shuttle  cooling  reminded  me  of  an
> article  I  ran  across  in  an  old (1980) IBM document.  The article
> described the onboard computers as System/4Pi model AP-101 processors.
> The  AP-101  appears  to  be  a  3  KIP machine with an intensely ugly
> architecture.  Main memory was described as 104KW  (36  bit)  of  core
> (really  core!)  with  400  ns access time.  What startled me were the
> physical characteristics.  Each of the five  "processors"  appears  to
> consist  of  two  boxes.  The  boxes  weigh  58.9  pounds and draw 350
> Watts!!!!! This would imply a system total of almost  600  pounds  and
> 3500  Watts.  Did  they actually use this refugee from the Smithsonian
> on the Shuttle?

I'm almost positive the answer is yes, they do and will continue to
do so for the forseeable future.  If it's not that particular
model, it is a close relative.  Sickening isn't it?

Software note: software development for launch is supposedly very close
to the critical path and definitely must see major improvements to support
24 launches a year.

More horrors: there are some 250 microprocessors on the shuttle with a
variety of incompatable languages, operating systems, and development
systems between them.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!qantel!vlsvax1!zehntel!hplabs!ames!aurora!al
From: aurora!al (Al Globus)
Subject: A physics/space problem beyond my abilities
Date: 21 Jun 85 00:59:05 GMT
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

How massive must a spacecraft be such that, when deorbited from low
Earth orbit (say 300 miles), the craft will impact the Earth with an
explosive power equivalent to the Hiroshima bomb?  Express the answer
in tons.

The reason I want the answer is that, if Star Wars battle stations are
hardened by adding lots of mass, at what point are the battle stations
as dangerous as ICBMs?

Thanx in advance.  I'll summarize for the net.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Jul 85 10:15 PDT
From: LShilkoff.ES@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: LShilkoff.es@Xerox.ARPA

>One of the problems that they had filming the movie was the gyroscopic
>effect of the film reels in the camera.

>One simple way to fix that is to have the film reels turn in oppisite
>directions. This way the gyroscopic effect is almost cancelled.

That won't correct the problem. Since an empty reel is filling from a
full one, the speed of rotation is constantly changing on both reels.
The effect would technically be cancelled only at the moment the film is
halfway through (equal reel rotation rates).

Larry

LShilkoff.es@xerox.arpa

------------------------------

Date:           Mon, 1 Jul 85 21:14:51 PDT
From:           Richard K. Jennings <jennings@AEROSPACE.ARPA>
To:             space@mit-mc
Subject:        Antigravity References

	The thought that the effects observed my Maurice Allais in
the paper I referenced and Keith Lofstrom commented about might
indeed be caused by the moon did cross my mind as well.  No longer
having access to a good technical library (the original text I
used resides at the AFIT Library at WPFAFB OH -- anybody at AFIT
listening?) I am not sure I can reconstruct my arguments.
	As I recall the observed effect changed its period, and went
away during eclipses.  I heartily support Keiths call for some
astronomer/astrodynamicist to get to the bottom of it (and 12 other
abnormalities he cites as well!)
	In my view, the most difficult evidence to understand is
that presented in the Saxl paper.

Rich.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #201
*******************

03-Jul-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #202    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 202

Today's Topics:
			  Re: shuttle computers
		     Re: IMAX and gyroscopic effects
	     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights (in California)
			      Job in space?
			    Challenger to Pad
			 cancel <952@hou2h.UUCP>
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!tektronix!hplabs!pesnta!pertec!kontron!steve
From: kontron!steve (Steve McIntosh)
Subject: Re: shuttle computers
Date: 28 Jun 85 21:02:05 GMT
Organization: Kontron Electronics, Irvine, CA


> From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
> ... For the weight cost of those things, they could have 20
> real computers...

The real cost of the computers is not the weight - they have been
stripping the weight at lift off by such things as NOT painting the
external fuel tank white. Leaving it with just a "primer" coat saved
thousands of pounds. 

The cost of the computers is power - both to run them and for cooling.

(By the way, just to annoy computer "purists" - I understand that there
are quite a few 6502's on the shuttle running forth to do menial tasks
like opening the bay doors. At least thats what one Rockwell employee
who worked on the shuttle told me )



*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***

------------------------------

Date: 2 Jul 85 09:09:23 PDT (Tuesday)
From: Ayers.PA@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: IMAX and gyroscopic effects
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA

One of the most interesting items in the original Nimbus weather
satellite was RCA's design of a tape recorder that could record pictures
and later replay them to ground stations, all the while exhibiting zero
(or almost zero) angular momentum. [It wouldn't do for the tape recorder
to cause the satellite to rotate.)

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!sun!plx!adams
From: plx!adams (Robert Adams)
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights (in California)
Date: 2 Jul 85 00:15:05 GMT
Organization: Plexus Computers; San Jose, CA

I recently heard that the IMAX "The Dream Is Alive" is also being
shown in the San Francisco bay area at Great America.  Now you can
ride the roller coasters and then go see the greatest roller coaster
ride.

   ..!{decvax,ucbvax}!sun!plx!adams             -- Robert Adams

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!brl-tgr!wmartin
From: wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin )
Subject: Job in space?
Date: 2 Jul 85 20:03:53 GMT
Organization: USAMC ALMSA

The latest activity bulletin just came across my desk, and it contains,
as is usual, a long list of government job openings at various sites. One
of these might be of interest to "Space" readers:

Depty Manager, Space Station Office, NASA Langley Research Center,
Hampton, VA. Ann. No. LSES-1406-22. Closing date: 10 July 85. Contact:
Robert A. Myers, 804-865-3278.

Of course, the job is an ordinary earthbound desk job, shuffling papers
or whatever, but I think you could get some interesting travel in it if
you can convincingly state that you have to visit the work site...

Will

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!spuxll!abnji!u1100a!pyuxww!gamma!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Challenger to Pad
Date: 30 Jun 85 16:18:03 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The space shuttle Challenger was moved to pad 39A yesterday
in preparation for lift off on 12 July.  Launch time is scheduled
for 1630 EDT with landing at EAFB seven days later.  On
Tuesday, its seven member crew, headed by shuttle veteran
Gordon Fullerton, will take part in a mock countdown and
launch.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!hou2h!hhs
From: hou2h!hhs
Subject: cancel <952@hou2h.UUCP>
Date: 1 Jul 85 21:45:23 GMT
Control: cancel <952@hou2h.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #202
*******************

04-Jul-85  0350	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #203    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 203

Today's Topics:
			     Bright Galaxies
			       Orbital sex
			     Shuttle launches
			     gyroscopic reels
		 heard on "soft news" show last night...
			Mock Countdown Successful
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
		   Re: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 3 Jul 85 12:48:22 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Bright Galaxies
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

Just a random thought for any theoretical astronomers out there...

If there are indeed large clouds of Hydrogen in intergalactic space, then
the collision of these with a galaxy should start a period of rapid star
formation. This could be the explanation for a few galaxies that seem to
have recently formed large numbers of stars. Idea triggered by information
in "Why Do Galaxies Exist", pp978-980, Science 5/24/85.

------------------------------

Date: 3 Jul 85 13:39:11 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Orbital sex
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

There have often been discussions on this weighty matter when mixed groups
of L5 members congregate. It is certainly of some concern, since we hope to
live, work AND play in space.

Several solutions have been suggested.

	1) Do it in the sleeping bag. The elasticity should give sufficient
	   restraint.

	2) For the acrobatic types, lock ankles. Of course the need for
	   concentration may detract from the experience.

	3) For those of the wild and wooly persuasion, free flight with
	   elastic ankle tethers seems to get high marks from both sexes.

If any experimentation should be required, I'm certain we can find a
sufficient test population (a few thousand of us should be sufficient) to
verify the possibilities of zero g. I wonder if we should title the
resulting report "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Zero Gee and
Were Afraid to Ask", or maybe "The Kama Spacesuitra"?

PS: One really has to wonder who was the first. I say WAS because I find it
extremely difficult to believe it hasn't been tried yet. After all, we're 
now sending up men and women who went to college in the SIXTIES... (hmmm...
group gropes in space?) I guess we'll find out when we read "The Time Life
History of Manned Space Flight, 1960-2030".

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!rochester!emil
From: rochester!emil
Subject: Shuttle launches
Date: 3 Jul 85 14:29:18 GMT
Sender: rochester!emil
Organization: U. of Rochester, CS Dept.

From: emil


I plan on going to Florida this winter and would appreciate any information
on shuttle launches between Dec 26-Jan 8.  Also any help on how to go
about seeing it (viewing stand/road/swamp) would be greatlt appreciated.  
We only archive the last two weeks here, so please no flames.



	Emil Rainero
	UUCP:	(..!{allegra, decvax, seismo}!rochester!emil)
	ARPA:	emil@rochester.arpa
	USmail:	Emil Rainero, Dept. of Comp. Sci., U. of Rochester, NY 14627.
	Phone:  Office: (716) 275-5365   Home: (716) 473-1150

------------------------------

Date: 3 Jul 1985 10:42-PDT
From: king@Kestrel.ARPA
Subject: gyroscopic reels
To: space@mc

As the fullness of a reel increases its moment increases and its
angular velocity decreases.

We have two degrees of freedom: hub diameter and moment of an empty
reel.  It seems likely to me that e can make any variations in the
angular momentum third-order.  I'll do the math when I'm less busy...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jul 85 15:32:11 pdt
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
To: info-cobol@mit-mc.ARPA, space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: heard on "soft news" show last night...
Cc: 

	The post-Nightline soft news show had a piece on UFOs last night.
Gov't plot to suppress findings, etc.  Reports of UFO found in 1947 in NM
desert at Air Force Base.  Highly scientific stuff...

	Anyway, just before I flipped it off, the commentator switched to
discussion of our own planetary program.  The scene cut to a control room,
where, we were told, "the nation's finest minds listen to Voyager and
Mariner by radio.  This (to a high-pitched whine that sounded about 2 KHz to
my ears) is the actual sound of Voyager just outside Venus..."

	Oh, wey....

						Rick.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Mock Countdown Successful
Date: 3 Jul 85 00:21:54 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The crew of the Challenger today successfully completed a mock
countdown and simulated liftoff in preparation for the 12 July
launch.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!pesnta!pertec!peregrine!mike
From: peregrine!mike (Mike Wexler)
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 2 Jul 85 20:11:49 GMT
Organization: Peregrine Systems, Irvine, Ca

> 
> > One of the problems that they had filming the movie was the gyroscopic
> > effect of the film reels in the camera.  Seems it was difficult to move the
> > camera out of the plane of rotation.  Note that the camera can eat 1000 feet
> > of film in a matter of 3 minutes.
> > -- 
> > Louis A. Mamakos WA3YMH   University of Maryland, Computer Science Center
> 
> One simple way to fix that is to have the film reels turn in oppisite
> directions. This way the gyroscopic effect is almost cancelled.
> 
> Since they are going to make a newer camera, I don't see much difficulty
> in modifying the take up reel so that it spins backwards...
> 
> Peter Barada
> {ihnp4!inmet|{harvard|cca}!ima}!pbear!peterb

How about digital recording of the picture.  There would be no gyroscopic 
effect at all.  This may not be feasible yet.  How about immediate transmission
of a digitized signal.  Maybe someone else out there can come up with a clever
non-mechanical method that could be used.

									Always a dreamer,
											Mike Wexler


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Wexler(trwrb!pertec!peregrine!mike) | Send all flames to:
15530 Rockfield, Building C              |	trwrb!pertec!peregrine!nobody
Irvine, Ca 92718                         | They will then be given the 
(714)855-3923                            | consideration they are due.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!pesnta!amd!intelca!cem
From: intelca!cem (Chuck McManis)
Subject: Re: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 1 Jul 85 21:11:32 GMT
Organization: Intel, Santa Clara, Ca.

> While I am at it, does anyone know anywhere else that IMAX films are being 
> shown? 

There is also an IMAX theater at Marriots Great America in Santa Clara
(playing Hail Columbia) and one OMNIMAX (sometimes called the magic
golf ball) outside Ceasar's Palace in Las Vegas, alternating between
Behold Hawaii and Hail Columbia.

--Chuck
-- 
"Unix, the Teco of Operating Systems."      - - - D I S C L A I M E R - - - 
{ihnp4,fortune}!dual\                     All opinions expressed herein are my
        {qantel,idi}-> !intelca!cem       own and not those of my employer, my
 {ucbvax,hao}!hplabs/                     friends, or my avocado plant. :-}

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!pesnta!pertec!kontron!steve
From: kontron!steve (Steve McIntosh)
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 1 Jul 85 15:46:54 GMT
Organization: Kontron Electronics, Irvine, CA

> Aerospace museum in the IMAX theatre. The films really have to be seen to be
> believed. What I would like to know is if any more recent film has been produced
> than "Hail Columbia". I remember seeing the IMAX cameras on board the Shuttles
> from news shorts, and I hope to see some results from that while I am there.
> While I am at it, does anyone know anywhere else that IMAX films are being 
> shown? 
The film produced with the shuttle footage is called "The Dream is Alive"
and is being shown at the Smithsonian and at the Mitsubishi IMAX theatre
at the Los Angeles Museum of Science and Industry.
 

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #203
*******************

05-Jul-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #204    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 204

Today's Topics:
		       IMAX and the Shuttle flights
			  Re: Challenger to Pad
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 4 Jul 1985  12:49 PDT (Thu)
Sender: TLI@ECLB
From: Tony Li <Tli@Usc-Eclb>
To:   SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-to: Tli@Usc-Eclb
Subject: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Home: 2632 Ellendale Pl. Apt. 314, Los Angeles, Ca. 90007  (213) 737-8168


There's also an Imax theatre here in LA, just north of the Colliseum.

Cheers, 
Tony ;-)

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mgnetp!ltuxa!ttrdc!jhl
From: ttrdc!jhl (Jonathon Luers)
Subject: Re: Challenger to Pad
Date: 3 Jul 85 18:51:00 GMT
Organization: AT&T Teletype Corp., Skokie, IL

I'm going to be vacationing in the Los Angeles area the week
of July 14-20, and since the shuttle is supposed to be landing
at Edwards Air Force Base about the 19th, I'm wondering if
anyone out there can tell me what kind of access, if any, is
available to the general public.

adThanksvance

Jon Luers
AT&T, Computer Systems Division
ihnp4!ttrdc!jhl

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #204
*******************

06-Jul-85  0351	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #205    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 205

Today's Topics:
		      Space Shuttle Heat Protection
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
			     Solar Wind Power
			     Giotto Launched
		 NASA Prediction Bulletins for Satellites
		   Re: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
		   Re: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
			   NASA Bulletin Board
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 30 JUN 1985 21:50:00 GMT
To:  <space-enthusiasts@mit-mc.ARP>
From:    <#d2f%ddathd21.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA> (#D2F)
Subject: Space Shuttle Heat Protection

Ralf Eberhardt                         Phone: 0049-6151-16-3939

Technische Hochschule Darmstadt               (Working hours, only)

Hochschulrechenzentrum/Beratung AB

Petersenstrasse 30                     Node name of our Site: DDATHD21

6100 Darmstadt                         My Userid:             #D2F

WEST GERMANY



As far as I know, there were problems with the heat protecting tiles of

space shuttle during the first flights. Tiles were lost and the heat

protection shield of the shuttle damaged. I am added to this mailing

only recently, so I don't know if this subject has already been discussed.

Since there was nothing to hear about this problem lately,

I suppose it has been solved. Can anybody tell me how ?



--- Ralf Eberhardt

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!Glacier!Shasta!brain
From: brain@Shasta.ARPA
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 4 Jul 85 21:56:09 GMT
Organization: Stanford University

> 
> > One of the problems that they had filming the movie was the gyroscopic
> > effect of the film reels in the camera.
> 
> One simple way to fix that is to have the film reels turn in oppisite
> directions. This way the gyroscopic effect is almost cancelled.
> 
> Peter Barada
> {ihnp4!inmet|{harvard|cca}!ima}!pbear!peterb

Since most of the spinning mass is in the film material itself, and since
that mass is initially all on the supply reel, and eventually all on the
take-up reel, if you have counter-rotating reels, the camera will initially
behave like a gyro spinning in one direction, slowing down, and changing
its direction of spin.

The problem of cancelling out the gyroscopic effects in that type of
system is fascinating!!

------------------------------

Date: 5 Jul 85 10:43:52 EDT
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: Solar Wind Power
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA


I was wondering if the solar wind might make a better power source than
sunlight, in space.  At first glance this seems silly, since the sun emits
most of its energy as light.  However, it may be possible to extract energy
from the solar wind using much less massive machines.  (Question for
astrophysicists: what fraction of the sun's energy goes into the solar
wind, and how fast does the wind blow?)

The idea is to use magnetohydrodynamic techniques and avoid the need for a
material collector.  The solar wind is a highly conductive plasma moving
at high velocity (100's of km/sec, I think).  If it goes though a transverse
magnetic field a current is induced perpendicular to both.  All one needs
to collect this current are two electrodes, one emitting electrons, the
other either collecting electrons or emitting positive ions.  A wire
connecting the electrodes completes the circuit.

We can generate a magnetic field with a large diameter superconducting loop
at the center of the device.  The other parts of the collector are
essentially one dimensional, and very light.  For example, if the wire
connecting the electrodes is a 10 km long aluminum cable with a cross
section of 10 cm^2, it has a mass of 27 tonnes and a resistance of .28 ohms.

On a grander scale, it may be possible to use the interaction of the solar
wind with the Earth's magnetic field, potentially allowing us to use
the power of the solar wind falling on the entire magnetosphere.  I don't
remember how far out the Earth's magnetic field goes, assuming 40,000 km
from the Earth's center, and assuming the solar wind has 10^-5 times the
power of sunlight, that's about 70 terawatts.  Superconducting cables would
be necessary for these distances, perhaps in geosynchronous orbit.
-------

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!mcnc!akgua!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Giotto Launched
Date: 3 Jul 85 00:21:11 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The ESA today successfully launched its Giotto space probe
atop an Ariane 1 booster.  The probe, Europe's first inter-
planetary spacecraft, is in a parking orbit, from which
it will deploy after four orbits onto its journey to
rendezvous with Halley's comet in March, 1986.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Jul 85 13:43:34 EDT
From: Michael_D'Alessandro%Wayne-MTS%UMich-MTS.Mailnet@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: NASA Prediction Bulletins for Satellites

My friend and I are going to start observing satellites,
using Sat Trak International's satellite tracking software that runs
on various micros.  In order to use this software, you must obtain
satellite orbital information from NASA, in the form of
NASA Prediction Bulletins.  NASA currently sends these bulletins out
via US Mail.  I would like to know if the information contained in
the bulletins can be obtained from a public BBS, a node on the net,
or via Mag tape or floppies.  If the information is not available in these
forms currently, is there anyway that it could be made available to
the public in any of these forms?  It would be great if the info
was available on line somewhere.

                      Michael D'Alessandro

<<Internet>>:

MPD%Wayne-MTS%UMich-MTS.Mailnet@MIT-Multics.ARPA

<<UUCP>>:

...ihnp4!ucbvax!MPD%Wayne-MTS%UMich-MTS.Mailnet@MIT-Multics.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!cvl!umd5!don
From: umd5!don
Subject: Re: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 5 Jul 85 15:31:23 GMT
Organization: U of Md, CSC, College Park, Md

>> 
>>> One of the problems that they had filming the movie was the gyroscopic
>>> effect of the film reels in the camera.
>> 
>> One simple way to fix that is to have the film reels turn in oppisite
>> directions. This way the gyroscopic effect is almost cancelled.
>> -- Peter Barada
> 
> Since most of the spinning mass is in the film material itself  ...
>  ...  if you have counter-rotating reels, the camera will initially
> behave like a gyro spinning in one direction, slowing down, and changing
> its direction of spin.
> 
*** REPLACE THIS film-reel WITH a constant rotational momentum ***
All one would need (unless my Physics is more than rusty and is just plain
rotten) is a means of having an almost constant rotational momentum for the
opposite spinning reels of film.
The mechanism would work like the classic spinning ice-skater to change
the momentum as the amount of film changes on the reel... a couple of weights
the can be moved inversely to the amount of film on the reel... the weights
would be attached to a spinning rod that is in turn attached to the reel.

Voila! (the added mass might even make the camera work more smoothly)
(on the other hand, the film is only so strong --- SNAP!)

Anybody got some other random thoughts on the matter ? (pun intentional)

-- 
--==---==---==--

___________      _____ ---- _____
       \        //---- IDIC -----
       _\______//_     ----
        ----------

  ARPA: don@umd5.ARPA   BITNET: don%umd5@umd2
SPOKEN: Chris Sylvain
  UUCP: {seismo,rlgvax,allegra,brl-bmd,nrl-css}!umcp-cs!cvl!umd5!don

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Jul 85 18:55:35 pdt
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Cc: 

	All you really need to solve the problem is two motor-driven
counter-rotating reels, one mounted adjacent to each of the film reels.
Let's call these the counter-reels.  They have some (constant) mass, so you
vary their angular momentum by varying their angular velocities
appropriately.  This can be done either by computation base on the amount of
time the camera has been operating, or can be controlled by simply measuring
the net angular momentum of the system and adjusting velocities
appropriately.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!ttidca!ttidcb!shuster
From: ttidcb!shuster (Cy Shuster)
Subject: NASA Bulletin Board
Date: 5 Jul 85 19:34:32 GMT
Reply-To: shuster@ttidcb.UUCP (Cy Shuster)
Organization: TTI, Santa Monica, CA.

Followup To: Phil Gunsul
Organization: Transaction Technology, Inc. (CitiCorp), Santa Monica
......

In article <18249@mgweed.UUCP> prg@mgweed.UUCP (Phil Gunsul) writes:
 
>On one of the earlier shuttle flights, someone posted a schedule
>of televised events that would appear on one of the satellites.
>I believe that schedule was obtained from a 'bulletin board'.
>Could someone out there PLEASE post the telephone number of the
>bulletin board or tell me where I can obtain a schedule of
>the next flight???
 
The July, 1985 issue of "Online Today" (published by CompuServe) lists
a NASA Get Away Special (GAS) Bulletin Board at (301) 344-9156, 
containing "GAS Net conferences and a daily newsletter from the 
Kennedy Space Center public affairs office". According to the article,
anyone can access the board, but only GAS participants can post 
entries. I haven't gotten thru yet.

........ Cy Shuster

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #205
*******************

07-Jul-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #206    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 206

Today's Topics:
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
			      Film reel hack
			 Re: NASA Bulletin Board
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
			       Shuttle Arm
		 SPACE Digest V5 #203    Gyroscopic reels
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!greipa!pesnta!phri!timeinc!vax135!petsd!peora!jer
From: peora!jer (J. Eric Roskos)
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 1 Jul 85 21:42:32 GMT
Organization: Perkin-Elmer SDC, Orlando, Fl.

> While I am at it, does anyone know anywhere else that IMAX films are being
> shown?

Here, of course, at the Kennedy space center...
-- 
Shyy-Anzr:  J. Eric Roskos
UUCP:       ..!{decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!vax135!petsd!peora!jer
US Mail:    MS 795; Perkin-Elmer SDC;
	    2486 Sand Lake Road, Orlando, FL 32809-7642

------------------------------

Date: 6 Jul 85 17:14 PDT
From: Fischer.pa@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Film reel hack
To: space@mit-mc.arpa

How about just putting a parallel set of reels of same size and
capacity, loaded with uncoated film stock and running in the opposite
direction?  Each set of reels then cancels its angular momentum equally
through the whole run of film.

Cheap hack, depends whether you can mount another set of reels close to
the originals.

(ron)

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!cvl!umd5!don
From: umd5!don
Subject: Re: NASA Bulletin Board
Date: 6 Jul 85 16:42:01 GMT
Organization: U of Md, CSC, College Park, Md

> Followup To: Phil Gunsul
> Organization: Transaction Technology, Inc. (CitiCorp), Santa Monica
> In article <18249@mgweed.UUCP> prg@mgweed.UUCP (Phil Gunsul) writes:
>  
> The July, 1985 issue of "Online Today" (published by CompuServe) lists
> a NASA Get Away Special (GAS) Bulletin Board at (301) 344-9156, 
> containing "GAS Net conferences and a daily newsletter from the 
> Kennedy Space Center public affairs office". According to the article,
> anyone can access the board, but only GAS participants can post 
> entries. I haven't gotten thru yet.
> 
> ........ Cy Shuster

*** RE THINE IT YOU MESS ***
I just got through as of 12:30PM July 6. The Bbd is 300 baud and runs on
a North-Star (tm).

Happy Hacking!


-- 
--==---==---==--

___________      _____ ---- _____
       \        //---- IDIC -----
       _\______//_     ----
        ----------

  ARPA: don@umd5.ARPA   BITNET: don%umd5@umd2
SPOKEN: Chris Sylvain
  UUCP: {seismo,rlgvax,allegra,brl-bmd,nrl-css}!umcp-cs!cvl!umd5!don

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!hound!gray
From: hound!gray (B.GRAY)
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 5 Jul 85 14:01:34 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ

"The Dream Is Alive" is also being shown at the "Naturemax"
theater in the American Museum of Natural History in New York City.
The AMNH also invites shuttle astronauts to give lectures in
the theater every few months, I believe (usually with home
movies from their flights).

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!cbosgd!clyde!watmath!water!watnot!kcollinsthom
From: watnot!kcollinsthom (Kevyn C.-Thompson)
Subject: Shuttle Arm
Date: 5 Jul 85 15:54:06 GMT
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario

Does anyone out there know how the shuttle arm works?  I am thinking
specifically of the joint motions and any problems with oscillation
if the arm is somewhat flexible.  How accurately can the end of the arm
be manipulated?   Are there any sort of correction mechanisms if such
inaccuracy does exist?  Any information would be much appreciated.
Thanks.

{ Kevyn Collins-Thompson
  University of Waterloo, Waterloo, Ont., Canada.
}

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1985  02:09 EDT
From: MINSKY%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA
To:   Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Cc:   SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: SPACE Digest V5 #203    Gyroscopic reels

The obvious solution to the tape problem is simply to use a loop of
fan-folded tape. It will not change its moment of inertia at all and
will save on space and reel.  Probably too obvious to have been
thought of.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #206
*******************

08-Jul-85  0351	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #207    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 207

Today's Topics:
		      re: solar wind as power source
			    Re: Shoot the Moon
			Giotto Headed for Halleys
				    DD
		   RE: Shuttle landings at Edwards AFB
				   IMAX
			  Terminate subscription
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sunday,  7 Jul 1985 10:06:52-PDT
From: redford%avoid.DEC@decwrl.ARPA  (John Redford)
To: space@mc, jlr%avoid.DEC@decwrl.ARPA
Subject: re: solar wind as power source

Dietz of Rutgers suggests using the solar wind as a power source, 
since it could be potentially be gathered with much lighter and 
simpler collectors than sunlight could.  Interesting idea!  My 
Encyclopedia Brittanica says that the solar wind consists of protons 
and electrons travelling at 300 to 700 km/s.  The protons have 
energies of about 1000 eV (the electrons of 10 eV), and densities of 
one particle per cm^3.  The flux density is 10^8 to 10^9 particles per
cm^2 per second.  All of these numbers vary wildly with solar activity.

Say there are 		10^8 	protons/cm^2/s 
with energies of     x	10^3 	eV/proton 
and there are	     x	1.6 x 10^-19 joules/eV
and		     x	10^4 	cm^2 / m^2
 			---------------
then the power flux is	0.16 	mW / m^2

This is ten million times less than the power flux of sunlight 
(1600 W / m^2).

This doesn't sound good.  Our collector will have to be 
extraordinarily light compared to solar cells to make up for a 10^7 
difference in power flux.  In fact, if solar cells are 10% 
efficient, and our collector were 100% efficient, our collector would 
have to be a million times lighter per unit area in order to get the 
same power per unit mass of collector.   However, the collecting 
electrodes can be just a fine mesh of wires, so it might be possible.

One other way to improve the system might be to exploit the shock 
wave in the solar wind produced by the earth's magnetic field.  The 
earth's field produces a teardrop shaped bubble in the solar wind, 
with the tail of the teardrop pointing away from the sun.  As protons 
slam into the field, many get absorbed into the earth's Van Allen 
belts, but some must flow around the teardrop.  The particle density 
at the boundary of the teardrop is probably a lot higher than normal, so
that's the place to put our collector.  It could be sited in a 
sun-facing polar orbit so that it is always moving around the 
circumference of the teardrop.  This would be a nasty place to work 
because of the radiation levels.  The collector could probably not be 
assembled by people, and even rad-hard electronics would have trouble.

I don't think, by the way, that the Van Allen belts themselves could 
be used as a power source.  The particles in them are very energetic, 
but are moving in all directions.  Getting power from them would be 
like getting power from the thermal energy of the atoms in a hot gas; 
you violate the second law of thermodynamics.  However, the particles 
are constrained by the earth's field, so their velocities might not 
be completely isotropic.  Any anisotropy could theoretically be exploited
to produce power.  

One last thought.  In the early sixties, several nuclear tests were 
conducted in the ionosphere.  They produced belts of charged 
particles which are still perturbing the magnetosphere twenty years later.
Suppose that we put our MHD collector around such an
explosion.  Some fraction of the bomb's energy could be collected 
and beamed down to earth as microwaves.  A continuous series of small 
explosions could keep the charge reservoir pumped up.  We could use 
the entire earth's field as the magnetic bottle for a fusion reactor!
The reactor would sit out in geosynchronous orbit, so there'd be 
little direct danger from radiation.  It would be a small extra sun 
in the sky.  We'd get lots of pretty aurora, too.  Of course, this 
would violate certain arms control treaties, as well as potentially 
damaging Earth's first line of defense against cosmic radiation, but hey,
anything for a few terajoules.

John Redford
DEC-Hudson

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!inuxc!iuvax!jec
From: iuvax!jec
Subject: Re: Shoot the Moon
Date: 4 Jul 85 20:43:00 GMT


	Seems to me that it would be a shame to waste all that impact
energy and also be made to sift through the lunar soil for the
materials.  I would think it would be better to go with a two stage
trip to the moon.  First make an accelerator to put the materials in
Earth orbit and then build a collector to gather it up.  Every once in
a while you could send a large shipment to the moon saving on delivery
vehicles and probably fuel.  Not to mention you could get away with a
much cheap accelerator.  Not cheap, but cheaper.

James E. Conley			Usenet: {ihnp4,pur-ee,purdue}!iuvax!jec
I.U. Dept. of Linguistics	Phone:	(812) 335-6458
401 Lindley Hall			(812) 332-3514
Bloomington, IN. 47405

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Giotto Headed for Halleys
Date: 5 Jul 85 03:57:04 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

Onboard motors on the spaceprobe Giotto successfully moved the
craft from its transfer orbit to its planned trajectory that
will take it to within 310 miles of Halleys comet next March.

------------------------------

From: crash!bryan@SDCSVAX.ARPA
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 85 10:04:23 PDT
To: space@mit-
Subject: DD
Cc: space@mit-mc

There is an IMAX projector at the Reuben H. Fleet SPACE Theater in
San Diego.
"The Dream is Alive" is due next month.   Or so I'm told.

     crash!bryan@ucsd
     {ihnp4, cbosgd, sdcsvax}!crash!bryan

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jul 1985 13:46 PST
From: Art Berggreen <ART@ACC>
Subject: RE: Shuttle landings at Edwards AFB
To: space@mit-mc
Reply-To: ART@ACC


Anyone from out-of-town thinging about watching a shuttle landing
at Edwards AFB during the summer should be prepared for the fact
that Rodger's Dry Lake is in the desert.  Summer temperatures can
get fairly high.  Be sure to have plenty of your favorite liquid
beverage.

    					<Art@ACC.ARPA>

------

------------------------------

From: crash!bryan@SDCSVAX.ARPA
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 85 15:37:28 PDT
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: IMAX

There is an IMAX projector at the Reuben H. Fleet Space Theater in
San Diego.   They are not currently showing "...Dream..." yet but
plan on getting it soon.

	Bryan R. Walker
	crash!bryan@ucsd
	{ihnp4, cbosgd, sdcsvax}!crash!bryan

------------------------------

Date: Mon 8 Jul 85 00:00:02-PDT
From: Bill Park <PARK@SRI-AI.ARPA>
Subject: Terminate subscription
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Park@SRI-AI.ARPA

Please take me off the mailing list for the SPACE Digest, since I 
can read it on an SRI bulletin board.  Thanks.  Bill Park@SRI-AI
-------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #207
*******************

09-Jul-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #208    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 208

Today's Topics:
			    Re: Shhot the Moon
			   Re: solar wind power
			Re: IMAX in Shuttles     
			    Rotational Inertia
			    Shuttle Comps etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 85 12:06:30 EDT
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: Re: Shhot the Moon
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

Someone suggested sending the material  to Earth orbit, then down to
the moon.  the problem with this idea is that you have to stop the payloads
in oribt somehow: either by impact with a very heavy/thick backstop, or
by active techniques (retrorockets?) that make the projectiles expensive.
Hitting the moon seems much simpler.

A point I should also have made clear: the launcher will have to swivel,
since the moon is not geostationary.  One might expect to launch perhaps
30% of the time.  Any orbital mechanicians want to comment?
-------

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 85 12:20:32 EDT
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: Re: solar wind power
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA


Looking in the encyclopedia britanica, I get a power level of from .1 to
1 milliwatt per meter^2 (1 to 10 protons per cm^3 at ~500 km/sec), or
roughly 10^-7 to 10^-6 x the intensity of sunlight.  Generating magnetic
fields over sufficiently large areas to make this practical seems
unlikely, unless the Earth's field is used.

The Earth's field may be used as follows: because the solar wind is so
highly conductive, it effectively excludes the earth's magnetic field.
What happens is the boundary layer of the plasma has a current ciculating
so as to neutralize the field at larger distances.  We can tap this
current by stretching a cable from one side of the field to the other
behind the earth.  Current is collected at the ends through some sort of
plasma and/or electron guns (no extensive wire mesh is needed).  Even
at 10^-7 x sunlight intensity this is still ~5 terawatts.

This scheme may significantly modify the earth's magnetosphere.  If so,
pulsed operation may dump the Van Allen belts, reducing radiation hazards
in intermediate orbits.
-------

------------------------------

To: SPACE@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: IMAX in Shuttles     
Date: 08 Jul 85 13:29:04 EDT (Mon)
From: Walt Lazear <lazear@mitre.ARPA>

This may be terribly naive, but why not have a dummy pair of reels acting
in mirror image to compensate for the changing gyroscopic effect of
shifting film from one reel to another.  It's extra weight and drive
mechanism, but should be easy to replicate the *real* reels.

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 85 14:05:09 EDT
From: BIESEL@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: Rotational Inertia
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: biesel@RUTGERS.ARPA


I've been watching the comments concerning ways to overcome the gyroscopic
inertia problem with the OMNIMAX cameras with growing disbelief. The 'fix'
seems to consist of a second counterrotating mass whose angular momentum
is matched by various means to that of the filmreel. It won't work, of course.
Adding a second rotating mass, counterrotating, at right angles, or
whatever will simply *ADD* to the problem by creating more angular
momentum. You might as well try to 'cancel' some mass by adding some
mass in another place; it just doesn't work that way.
-------

------------------------------

Date:  8 Jul 1985 at 1439-EDT
Subject: Shuttle Comps etc
From: jim at TYCHO.ARPA  (James B. Houser)
To: space at mit-mc

Hi

        Thanx for the numerous replies on my question  about  the  STS
computers.  Those  beasties are really grotesque!!  A number of people
mentioned rumors of a plan to  upgrade  the  system  but  no  concrete
pointer  emerged  from  the discussion.  Any words from NASA types out
there?

        There were also a lot of interesting responses to  the  "money
to burn" interstellar probe thought experiment.  The general consensus
seemed to be that it could not be done given the design constraints or
if  so  just  barely.  Most  people proposed a laser driven light sail
propulsion system though several other ideas were suggested too.  What
would  happen  if  we applied these same ideas to designing a fast and
simple probe to Pluto/Charon?  Any thoughts?

			Jim Houser (jim@tycho)

-------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #208
*******************

10-Jul-85  0351	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #209    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 209

Today's Topics:
	       Magnetically Levitated Kinetic Energy Store
		  Use Caution if purchasing an Astroscan
			      Shuttle Movies
	       SPACE Digest V5 #208    -- angular momentum
			 NASA-ASEE Seminar Series
		    Re: Space Shuttle Heat Protection
			    Re: Shuttle Movies
			general space information
			   Astronaut Selection
		     Film Review: The Dream is Alive
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 9 Jul 85 07:55:54 EDT
From: DIETZ@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: Magnetically Levitated Kinetic Energy Store
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA, arms-d@MIT-MC.ARPA

I got some details from Argonne on that megnetically levitated loop
kinetic energy storage system.  The baseline system has a radius of
1 km, a velocity of 7 km/sec and a stored energy of 7000 megawatt hours
(about 5 kilotons).  The system uses a leviated superconducting coil;
there are severe cooling constraints.  An attractive maglev system using
radially stable vertically unstable attractive levitation is also mentioned.
It has a lower power density but seems more tractable, since the ring can
be at room temperature.

Aside from Lofstrom Loops, this technology seems directly applicable to
SDI.  Depending on your power extraction/conditioning equipment, one could
extract energy from the ring very quickly.  Dumping in 300 seconds gives
a power of some 80 gigawatts -- that will pump a BIG laser.  It might also
be useful for laser powered surface-to-orbit rockets.  The loop can also
containing ring segments, which can be accelerated like particles in
a synchrotron.  Since the velocity would be added to these pieces gradually
high efficiencies (95%?) should be possible, making the system (or a variant
using repulsive maglev) a candidate for use as a mass driver.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!decwrl!sun!amdahl!canopus
From: amdahl!canopus (Alpha Carinae)
Subject: Use Caution if purchasing an Astroscan
Date: 8 Jul 85 16:54:11 GMT
Organization: RA: 6h 22m 30s; Dec: -52d 36m

Recently, a good friend of mine who owns an optical coating business
replaced, or attempted to replace, the aluminum coating on the Edmund
Astroscan RFT.  It turns out that the parabolic curve on the reflective
surface was generated NOT by parabolizing the mirror, but rather by
the aluminizing process itself.  Therefore, if you strip the coating
you have also stripped the figure!

While aluminized and overcoated mirrors should last a relatively long
time (up to 10 years?), potential buyers of an Astroscan may wish to
take this bit of info into account before making their purchase.

I haven't checked with Edmund Scientific to see if they will "refigure"
Astroscans... but they must be able to.  Anyone know for sure?
-- 
Frank Dibbell     (408-746-6493)     ...!{ihnp4,cbosgd,sun}!amdahl!canopus
Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA     [This is the obligatory disclaimer..]
   -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
        "I call it 'tranya'.  I hope you relish it as much as I."

------------------------------

Date: 9 Jul 85 11:11:53 EDT (Tuesday)
From: Lyons.HENR@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Shuttle Movies
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Lyons.HENR@Xerox.ARPA

A movie presumeably made from the IMAX pictures is now showing at the
Rochester Planetarium entitled, "The Space Shuttle An American
Adventure."  It shows a shuttle launch closeup, as well as training
pictures, pictures of the earth from the shuttle, and eva operations
with the remote arm in repairing solar max.  The film was apparantly
made for showing on the ceilings of planetariums throughout the country.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1985  14:17 EDT
From: MINSKY%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA
To:   Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Cc:   SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: SPACE Digest V5 #208    -- angular momentum



Adding a counter-rotating mass will indeed cancel the changes of
angular momentum of the spacecraft.  The added mass will, of course,
increase the ship's moment of intertia and also its mass.  However,
the additional mass can be made arbitrarily small by using a small
mass out on a long moment-arm.

Here is a cute solution which adds no mass to speak of: use two
identical film and take-up reels, each of half the mass, running in
opposite directions, and expose frames alternately, or something like
that.  Then everything will cancel out perfectly.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!dual!fortune!nsc!ames!eugene
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: NASA-ASEE Seminar Series
Date: 8 Jul 85 17:56:26 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

22nd annual Stanford-NASA ASEE seminar series

Thursdays, 8 PM Terman Aud.

7/11 - Ilan Kroo: Applied Prehistoric Aerdynamics: Could Pterosaurs Really
	Fly?

7/18 - Elliott Levinthal: SIMA: A Stanford Experiment in Education and
	Research in Manufacturing Science

7/25 - Robert Helliwell: Stanford in Anartica, or How to Keep Warm with
	Long Radio Waves

8/1 - John Howe: Space Station Taxi: The Aero-Assisted Orbital Transfer
	Vehicle (AOTV)
8/8 - G. Brent Dalrymple: As the World Turns: A Retrospective Look at the
	Birth of Plate Tectonics

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,decwrl,allegra}!ames!aurora!eugene
  @ames-vmsb.ARPA:emiya@jup.DECNET

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!tektronix!tekigm!timothym
From: tekigm!timothym (Timothy D Margeson)
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle Heat Protection
Date: 8 Jul 85 17:54:05 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR

I seem to recall that a product called Scotchgard was sprayed over the tiles
after they were installed and dry. This prevented moisture from permeating
the ceramic (the moisture turned to steam upon reentry therebye cracking
the tiles and causeing them to blow off).

Tim Margeson (206)253-5240
tektronix!tekigm!timothym                   @@   'Who said that?'  
PO Box 3500  d/s C1-465
Vancouver, WA. 98665
-- 
Tim Margeson (206)253-5240
tektronix!tekigm!timothym                   @@   'Who said that?'  
PO Box 3500  d/s C1-465
Vancouver, WA. 98665

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!utastro!ethan
From: utastro!ethan (Ethan Vishniac)
Subject: Re: Shuttle Movies
Date: 9 Jul 85 21:25:14 GMT
Organization: U. Texas, Astronomy, Austin, TX

> From: Lyons.HENR@Xerox.ARPA
> 
> A movie presumeably made from the IMAX pictures is now showing at the
> Rochester Planetarium entitled, "The Space Shuttle An American
> Adventure."  It shows a shuttle launch closeup, as well as training
> pictures, pictures of the earth from the shuttle, and eva operations
> with the remote arm in repairing solar max.  The film was apparantly
> made for showing on the ceilings of planetariums throughout the country.

And if it is as poorly presented in your home town as it was in Rochester
it is a damn good idea to avoid this joker.  The images were consistently
badly out of focus. (Think about the combination of straining your neck
to take in the whole picture and straining your eyes to make anything out.)
The film itself was moderately boring.  The makers concentrated on showing
things of minimal interest.  The only part that would have been worth seeing
(more clearly) were the shots from the shuttle bay, a small part of the picture.
-- 

"Don't argue with a fool.      Ethan Vishniac
 Borrow his money."            {charm,ut-sally,ut-ngp,noao}!utastro!ethan
                               Department of Astronomy
                               University of Texas

------------------------------

From: <crash!usiiden!markf@Nosc>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 85 08:32:03 PDT
To: crash!noscvax!space@mit-mc
Subject: general space information

NASA administrator James Beggs announced the 21 teams that have
submitted proposals to establish Centers for the Commercial
Development of Space. * The objective of these centers will be to
stimulate high technology research in the microgravity environment
of space. This research eventually will ead to the development of
new products which either have commercial potential or contribute
to possible commercial ventures. * The reserach areas proposed
include semiconductor crystal growth, remote sensing,
communication technology and biotechnology. * Proposals were
received from: Battelle-Columbus Lab, Columbus, Ohio * The inst
for Technology Development, Jackson, Miss. * Colorado School of
Mines, Golden, Co. * Vanderbilt Univ., Nashville, Tenn. * U. of
Fla., Gainesville, Fla. * MIT, Cambridge, Mass. * Midwest Research
Institute, Kansas City, Mo. * U. of Ala., Birmingham, Ala. * U. of
Tenn. Space Inst., Tullahoma, Tenn (2 proposals) * U. of Ala.,
Huntsville, Ala. * Inst. of Space Research, Houston, Tx. * Polymer
Research Inst., Amherst, Mass. * Earth Ata Corp., Stanford, Calif.
* Georgia Tech Research Corp., Atlanta, Ga. * The Natl.
Technological Univ., Fort Collins, Colo. * University City Science
Center, Phila, Penn. * Center for Technology Development,
Albuquerque, N.M. * U. of Va., Charlottesville, Va. * Northwestern
U., Boston, Mass. * Review by technical, managerial and financial
experts is expected to take 45-60 days. NASA will fund between 3
and 6 of the proposals for up to $1 million/year, for a period not
to exceed 5 years. Funding is anticipated by Sept. 1985 * Azeezaly
Jaffer HQ

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!ames!eugene
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Astronaut Selection
Date: 8 Jul 85 17:48:18 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

From the Ames Astrogram:

Starting August 1, 1985, the NASA Astronaut selection program will shift
to a continuous process.  Applications for astronaut positions will be
taken full time.

Pilot qualifications include 1,000 hours pilot-in-command of jet aircraft
(I think few on the net have this) plus more.

Mission specialists need:
	- bachelor's degree in engineering, physical, bio science, or
	  math.
	- at least three years of related professional experience or higher
	  degree
	- ability to pass a NASA Class II flight physical
	- height between 60 and 76 inches
For more details write:

	NASA Johnson Space Center
	AHX/Astronaut Selection Program
	Houston, TX 77058

Don't mail me.  I've nothing to do with this.

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,decwrl,allegra}!ames!aurora!eugene
  @ames-vmsb.ARPA:emiya@jup.DECNET

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!ames!eugene
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Film Review: The Dream is Alive
Date: 8 Jul 85 20:26:33 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

This a a brief review of the IMAX short "The Dream is Alive."
I saw the film over the 7/4 weekend at the Mariott Great America Theater
in Santa Clara.

The film starts with the characteristic twin sonic booms heard from
earth about two minutes before a landing.  The first seen is a view
of a landing approach [see comments below regarding disappointments].
It's twilight and quite spectacular.

The film appears to be a collection of footage from at least three
shuttle flights, including the Solar Max Repair mission, Kathryn Sullivan's
first woman in space walk, and Sally Ride's first mission.

There are several closeups of launches from different angles (static
mounts).  Watching the water flow around the shuttle looked interesting.
One of the neatest scenes flies into Launch complex 39
from the sea passing the Shuttle on the launch pad.

A good portion of the film looks out the windows toward the earth,
but you have no perception of depth or scale due to the distance
and lack of visual cues.  Other scenes included eating in zero-G (lots),
and sleeping.  The film is not all space shots with some footage in the
water tank in Houston showing training.

Disappointments: there were no forward or side shots from the shuttle
windows during the initial phases of launch or during reentry.  The opening
landing could have been made using another aircraft.  Many of these scenes
have been recorded using smaller cameras.  Much of the IMAX footage
was statically shot, few of the sweeping panoramas characteristic
of the aerial IMAX stuff of the past.

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,decwrl,allegra}!ames!aurora!eugene
  @ames-vmsb.ARPA:emiya@jup.DECNET

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #209
*******************

11-Jul-85  0350	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #210    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 210

Today's Topics:
			     Re: Orbital sex
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
			    Rotational Inertia
			  Long Cables and Reels
			  IMAX Release Schedule
			       Mailing list
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!markb
From: sdcrdcf!markb (Mark Biggar)
Subject: Re: Orbital sex
Date: 8 Jul 85 17:27:04 GMT
Reply-To: markb@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Mark Biggar)
Organization: System Development Corp. R+D, Santa Monica

It should be noted that there are at least two (maybe three I don't
remember) husband and wife couples amoung the current set of shuttle
crew members.  It should also be noted that NASA has yet to set one of
these couples up together (they probably just don't want to have to
deal with "unauthorized" expermentation).

Mark Biggar
{allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,akgua,sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!markb

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!lwall
From: sdcrdcf!lwall (Larry Wall)
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 8 Jul 85 19:24:22 GMT
Reply-To: lwall@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Larry Wall)
Organization: System Development Corp. R+D, Santa Monica

In article <6695@Shasta.ARPA> brain@Shasta.ARPA writes:
>Since most of the spinning mass is in the film material itself, and since
>that mass is initially all on the supply reel, and eventually all on the
>take-up reel, if you have counter-rotating reels, the camera will initially
>behave like a gyro spinning in one direction, slowing down, and changing
>its direction of spin.

Except that there is some mass to the reels themselves, and the emptier
reel is spinning FASTER than the fuller one, and more so as it gets emptier.
Perhaps there is some weight of reel which is optimal.  Is the gyroscopic
effect related to angular momentum or to energy?  Hmm.  It doesn't appear
to be a linear effect in any event, since as the effective radius decreases,
the rate of decrease increases.  Got that?  Anybody care to figure out
the math of it?

Larry Wall
{allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!lwall

------------------------------

Date: Wednesday, 10 Jul 1985 13:10-EDT
From: jrv@Mitre-Bedford
To: space@MIT-MC
Subject: Rotational Inertia
cc: biesel@RUTGERS.ARPA

> I've been watching the comments concerning ways to overcome the gyroscopic
> inertia problem with the OMNIMAX cameras with growing disbelief. The 'fix'
> seems to consist of a second counterrotating mass whose angular momentum
> is matched by various means to that of the filmreel. It won't work, of course.
> Adding a second rotating mass, counterrotating, at right angles, or
> whatever will simply *ADD* to the problem by creating more angular
> momentum. You might as well try to 'cancel' some mass by adding some
> mass in another place; it just doesn't work that way.

Of course it works that way.  The angular momentum of a collection of
masses is a vector sum of the angular momenta of the masses, so it's
possible for the sum to come to zero.  Can anyone think of a simple
demonstration?
				      - Jim Van Zandt

------------------------------

Date:     Wed, 10 Jul 85 15:42:37 EDT
From:     Smith@UDel-Dewey.ARPA
To:       space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject:  Long Cables and Reels

Hi all!

  Since this is my first time here I should introduce myself... My name is
art smith, and I am a recent graduate of the University of Delaware with 
Master's degrees in Chemistry and Computr Science.  I've been reading this
bboard for a while and two recent entries prompted me two respond...

    First: cancelling angular momentum with angular momentum is QUITE
different from cancelling mass with mass -- one is a vector quantity, and
the other a scalar.  The real difficulty (pardon the pun) is that the 
various vectors of angular momentum don't have the same base point, and 
so cancelling can be difficult.  Just 'cause the vectors are equal in
magnitude and opposite in direction doesn't mean they exactly cancel  --
they may produce a torque, as in:

       <-------+  <-force vector one
	       |				This arm will turn.
	       +  <-pivot on arm
	       |
	       +-------> <-force vector two

    Secondly:  The idea of tapping the potential difference in the solar
wind at the leading and trailing edges of the earth by "stretching a cable
from one side of the field to the other" may have problems besides the 
obvious (and NO FUN) logistic ones...  It assumes (at least) that the
cable has a lower resistance than the plasma which has been elsewhere 
described as very conductive.  Just because there is a potential difference
at two ends of a (sufficiently long and narrow) cable does NOT mean that 
a current will flow.  It may be a very stable potential gradient caused
by external conditions.  Does anyone who understands these things better
than I (i.e. most of you) have any feelings on this?

		Hope to be contributing more...
			art smith
			(smith@dewey.ARPA)
			(302) 451-6337 <- can leave a message, at least!

------------------------------

To: space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: IMAX Release Schedule
Date: 10 Jul 85 16:46:59 EDT (Wed)
From: Walt Lazear <lazear@mitre.ARPA>

The Air Force Times published a schedule of release dates for the new
IMAX film "The Dream is Alive":

June:
Nat. Air & Space Mus., Washington, DC
Amer. Mus. of Natural Hist., NY
Calif. Mus. Of Sci & Ind, LA
Great America, Santa Clara

July:
Alabama Space & Rocket Center, Huntsville
Spaceport USA, Kennedy Space Center, Fla.

August:
Ontario Place, Toronto

September:
Detroit Science Center, Mich
Edmonton Space Sciences Centre, Edmonton, Alberta
Sijthoff Planetarium, The Hague, Netherlands
Nat. Mus. of Photography (Film & TV), Bradford, England

October:
Pacific Science Center, Seattle
Sci. Mus of VA, Richmond, Virginia
Kansas Cosmosphere & Discovery Center, Hutchinson, Kansas
The Internat. Space Hall of Fame, Alamogordo, NM
Fort Worth Mus. of Sci. & Hist.
Sand Diego Hall of Science

November:
Sci. Mus. of Minn., St. Paul

December:
Musee National Des Sciences, Des Techniques, Et Des Industries, Paris


It seems others on this mailing list have noted even more places which
currently show the film, but I may be counting messages which merely
state there is an IMAX theater in their town.

------------------------------

From: ucscc!B.root@Berkeley
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 85 10:01:26 pdt
To: c.Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Mailing list

Your mailing list apparently includes ucscc!b:cfp.  This user no longer
exists.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #210
*******************

12-Jul-85  0350	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #211    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 211

Today's Topics:
			   Re: Gyroscopic reels
			    Re: Space Whoopee
			Re: Gyroscopic sideffects
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
			      Spaceweek 1985
			cancel <643@bgsuvax.UUCP>
			    RE: Space Whoopee
		       Re: Space Shuttle Computers
			     Countdown Starts
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!oakhill!kvue!spangler
From: kvue!spangler (Lance Spangler)
Subject: Re: Gyroscopic reels
Date: 10 Jul 85 21:09:07 GMT
Organization: KVUE-TV

There are motion picture cameras which should solve the problems 
associated with one reel being fuller than the other...and the inertia
problems associated with the speed involved. 

Most everyone remembers the film magazines shaped like mouse ears.  Most
film cameras (16 & 35mm) still use something like that.  But years ago, a
16mm sound camera called a (sp?) Belieau used what was termed stacked 
loading.  That is, the feed reel and the take up reel literally sat on top
of each other, with a small hub between each to take care of the difference
in reel speed. 

While I haven't picked up a camera in years (anyone want to buy a complete 
Bolex 16mm outfit? <:-)) I know the technology still exists.  We presently 
use a RCA portable 1" vtr that uses the same type of stacked loading.  

Would this sort of setup solve the inerta problems which seem to be  
creating problems in a weightless environment?  I'm not sure, but after 
reading the hack about opposing reels traveling in opposite directions, 
I thought I'd throw the idea out.  I'm sure Arriflex or who ever is making
the motion picture cameras for NASA these days could whip one out.  Or 
for that matter, check with Belieau in France to see if they make a unit
suitable for the shuttle.  I know the Belieau was a beauty of a camera back
in my news photographer days...power zoom...auto iris...a battery that lasted
for ever...etc. 

{ihnp4,seismo,gatech,harvard,ctvax,nbires,ucb-vax}!ut-sally!kvue!spangler
	Telco: 512-459-6521 (Ext. 2068)		Lance Spangler
	Telco: 512-459-1433 (Pvt. biz line) 	Senior Producer
 						KVUE Television
	       The only thing we have to        Austin, Texas
	       fear is computing itself! <:-)) 	((P. O. Box 9927))
	       					  zip------> 78766

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!greipa!pesnta!pertec!kontron!steve
From: kontron!steve (Steve McIntosh)
Subject: Re: Space Whoopee
Date: 8 Jul 85 16:07:01 GMT
Organization: Kontron Electronics, Irvine, CA

> From: LShilkoff.ES@Xerox.ARPA
> 
> Question: How do you avoid moving from a stationary point in space while
> having intimate relations.
> 
Answer: Bunjee cords
[Perhaps the Russians have already tried it]

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!drutx!mtuxo!pegasus!phoenix!brent
From: phoenix!brent (Brent P. Callaghan)
Subject: Re: Gyroscopic sideffects
Date: 10 Jul 85 14:24:20 GMT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft NJ

The discussion on the IMAX camera gyroscopic problems on the shuttle
brings to mind a similar story pertaining to an airborne computer
in the 60's.  The heart of the computer was a magnetic drum, rather
massive, and spinning at high speed.  Shortly after takeoff the
computer developed a deep psychosis as the aircraft banked, followed
immediately by a screaming noise from its rotating insides.

Sooner or later, rotating storage media will be carried on the
shuttle or space station.  Perhaps a drive with contra-rotating
disks is the answer.
-- 
				
Made in New Zealand -->		Brent Callaghan
				AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft, NJ
				{ihnp4|mtuxo|pegasus}!phoenix!brent
				(201) 576-3475

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!uiucdcs!convex!trsvax!gm
From: gm@trsvax
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 8 Jul 85 16:42:00 GMT


> While I am at it, does anyone know anywhere else that IMAX films are being 
> shown? 

Well, there's one right here in good old Ft. Worth. I believe that it has
the largest Omnimax dome in the country. (Ft. Worth Museum of Science and
History).

If only the image projected by the film was large enough to fill it...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 "I've added a few jumpers.  The Milliamp Falcon can run current loops around
  any Imperial TTY fighter.  She's fast enough for you, old version."
						------------
						George Moore (gm@trsvax.UUCP)

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1985 1249-PDT (Thursday)
From: Craig E. Ward <cew@isi-hobgoblin.ARPA>
To: Space@mit-mc, Aviation@mit-mc, Physics@sri-unix
Cc: bboard@usc-isib, sf-lovers@mit-mc
Subject: Spaceweek 1985



                          Spaceweek-1985 Activivites

                   A Series of Events in Celebration of the
               16th Anniversary of the First Manned Moon Landing

In honor of Spaceweek 1985, OASIS/L5 will be sponsoring the following events.
The attendance at some of the events is limited so make your reservations now.

July 16, 18, 24, Satellite Business Systems, Downtown Los Angles

                     A Tour of Satellite Business Systems

On each of these days, from 2:00 to 5:00pm, we will be having a tour
of the largest satellite data processing facility on the west coast.  Each
tour is limited to 30 people.  For reservations, call
F. Wiley Livermont at (818)700-8382.

July 20, Rockwell International DEI Room, Downey

                        A Tour of the Rockwell DEI Room

See a full scale mock-up of the Space Shuttle and the Space Station Crew
Module.  There will also be a short presentation by Howard Gluckman of
Rockwell International.  Events start at 10:00am.  Enter the Rockwell
International Plant at Gate 53 near the corner of Bellflower,
Stewart and Grey Blvds.

July 20, TRW Forum, Redondo Beach

                   Next Human Destination: The Moons of Mars

Well known futurist and former astronaut Dr. Brian O'Leary will speak on the
possible missions to the moons of Mars.  The TRW forum is located at 1 Space
Park in Redondo Beach.  Enter TRW at Compton Blvd. just east of Aviation Blvd.
The talk starts at 3:00pm.  Admission will be $2.00.

July 21, California Museum of Science and Industry, Los Angles

              Aerospace Museum Tour and IMAX Theater Presentation

Starting at 11:00am, we will have a tour of the Aerospace Museum.  At 2:30pm,
there will be an IMAX presentation of the film "The Dream is Alive", which
includes IMAX space shuttle footage.  Tickets will have to be purchased for
this event.  For reservations, call F. Wiley Livermont at (818)700-8382.

July 21, Griffith Observatory, Los Angles

                  The California Universe -- 50th Anniversary

Meet at the Griffith Observatory at about 7:00pm for the evening observatory
show.  Tickets will have to be purchased at the Observatory.

Week of July 22, TRW, Redondo Beach

               A Tour of the Satellite High Bay Facility at TRW

We are also currently trying to arrange a tour sometime during the week of
July 22 for a small group of people.  If you would like to go on the tour,
call F. Wiley Livermont at (818)700-8382.


       For more information about the above events, call (213)374-1381.

OASIS/L5
P.O. Box 1231
Redondo Beach, CA 90278

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!cbosgd!apr!osu-eddie!bgsuvax!schultz
From: bgsuvax!schultz
Subject: cancel <643@bgsuvax.UUCP>
Date: 10 Jul 85 15:22:19 GMT
Control: cancel <643@bgsuvax.UUCP>
Organization: Bowling Green State University, OH

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!cbosgd!apr!osu-eddie!bgsuvax!schultz
From: bgsuvax!schultz (Steven Schultz)
Subject: RE: Space Whoopee
Date: 10 Jul 85 15:27:32 GMT
Organization: Bowling Green State University, OH

> . . . NASA is planning for experiments involving
> intimate relations on board the future space station with married
> couples and couples with "significant relationships". 
> 
> Question: How do you avoid moving from a stationary point in space while
> having intimate relations.
> 
> I understand the first space based birth control device will be called
> the heat shield :-)
> 
> Larry

  Uh, just a few questions, Larry.  What is a "significant relationship"?
Does lust count for anything?  And I heard that these "heat sheilds" are
having problems.  They are falling off and cracking during 'liftoff' and
especially during 'reentry'.  Any truth to these rumours? :-)

                               Steven Schultz
===============================================================================
            "You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant,
                               excepting Alice"
               -Arlo Guthrie "Alice's Restaurant Massacree"
===============================================================================
            PATH:  uw-beaver!ihnp4!cbosgd!osu-eddie!bgsuvax!schultz
===============================================================================

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!eder
From: ssc-vax!eder (Dani Eder)
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle Computers
Date: 5 Jul 85 20:10:32 GMT
Organization: Boeing Aerospace Co., Seattle, WA

> > ...the fifth one is different from the other 4; it is made by Rockwell...
> 
> I could be proven wrong, but I am quite sure that all 5 cpus are the same.
> The fifth one, however, was PROGRAMMED by Rockwell rather than IBM.  The 
> quintuple hardware redundancy provides backup for hardware failure.  The 
> separate program for #5 provides a backup for the software.
> 
> BTW, the 5 computers only run as a quintuple redundant set during critical
> phases of the mission (ascent and decent, and perhaps during some of the
> prelaunch activities).  At other times, they are decoupled and given separate
> tasks, with only double or triple redundancy for such things as orbital
> calculations, environment management, and running the arm.

     The following is extracted from a Rockwell International reference book
on the space shuttle:

     The memory capacity of each CPU is 81,920 words. The memory capacity 
of each input-output processor (which intermediates between CPU and real 
world) is 24,576 words.  To accomplish all of the mission phases, approx.
400,000 woeds are required.  To fit the software, it has been divided into
9 parts.  Mass memory is provided by two tape drives totalling 37 Meg.
Each I/O Processor contains 24 processors, each controlling one data bus.
The computers perform 325000 operations/second, and when operating in
a redundant mode compare results 440 times/second.  Each CPU is 7 1/2 x
10 x 19 inches and weighs 57 pounds.  The I/O processors are the same
size and weight.  Each of two mass memories is 7 1/2 x 11 x 15 inches
and weights 22 lbs.

Dani Eder/ Boeing Advanced Space Transportation Organization/ssc-vax!eder

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Countdown Starts
Date: 11 Jul 85 03:12:58 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

At 1100 EDT today, the countdown for the nineteenth space shuttle
mission started with the call to stations.  Liftoff for the purely
scientific mission is scheduled for 1630 EDT Friday, only the third
afternoon shuttle launch.  

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #211
*******************

13-Jul-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #212    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 212

Today's Topics:
			   Re: gyroscopic reels
			    VIP Shuttle Passes
	Angular Momentum, Inertia, and IMAX. References Included.
			     Filming in Space
			    RE: Space Whoopee
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!randvax!kovacs!rivero
From: kovacs!rivero (Michael Foster Rivero)
Subject: Re: gyroscopic reels
Date: 10 Jul 85 00:44:57 GMT
Reply-To: rivero@kovacs.UUCP (Michael Foster Rivero)
Organization: Robt Abel & Assoc, Hollywood

In article <2498@mordor.UUCP> @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC.ARPA:king@Kestrel writes:
>From: king@Kestrel.ARPA
>
>As the fullness of a reel increases its moment increases and its
>angular velocity decreases.
>
>We have two degrees of freedom: hub diameter and moment of an empty
>reel.  It seems likely to me that e can make any variations in the
>angular momentum third-order.  I'll do the math when I'm less busy...


	Of course, there's the problem of mass  leaving  one  rotating
	tape reel and moving to the other on a continuous basis. That
	makes the math more interesting!


					Mike

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!akgua!akguc!cpsc53a!dta
From: cpsc53a!dta (Doug Anderson)
Subject: VIP Shuttle Passes
Date: 10 Jul 85 14:25:28 GMT
Organization: AT&T CPSC, Atlanta, Georgia

From: Doug Anderson

Subject: VIP Shuttle Passes.

NASA has provided an address to write to to get VIP passes for future
shuttle launches.  These passes allow the holder to take one (1) vehicle
on to Merritt Island (the place you see all the TV footage from during the
launches). You can pile as many people in the vehicle as you wish.

The sight is about 1.5 miles from the shuttle launch pad and you get 
GREAT viewing!!

	NASA Public Affairs,
	PA-VIC,
	John F. Kennedy Space Center
	Kennedy Space Center
	Florida,  32899

While I've never requested a pass for a particular launch they seem to try
to get you one for the next launch available so if your comming down to
Florida you may just want to try and get a pass.

	Doug Anderson
	ATT-IS
	Orland Florida

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 12 Jul 85 10:11:47 EDT
From: David Miller <Miller@YALE.ARPA>
Subject: Angular Momentum, Inertia, and IMAX. References Included.
To: space@MIT-MC

The reason  the  IMAX  camera is difficult to move is due to the
"gyroscopic effect" put on  the  camera  by  the  rotating  film
reels.  This  was  pointed  out  in  the  original article.  All
of the suggestions having to  do  with  counter  rotating  reels
will not  diminish  this  effect  at  all.  Angular momentum has
direction and can  be  cancelled  by  an  equal  amount  in  the
opposite direction.   "Gyroscopic  effect"  is  due  to  INERTIA
and  is  a  magnitude  independent   of   direction.    Marion's
"Calssical Dynamics"  Chapter  12  has a good explanation on the
subject.  But for  a  more  intuitive  situation  think  of  two
gyroscopes rotating  in  opposite  direction.   Now attach their
outer  frames.   The  outsides  will  stop  rotating,  but   the
gyroscopes will not topple over (as a cancellation of gyroscopic
effect would indicate).  Instead,  the  entire  system  is  more
stable than its parts.

Inertial guidance  systems  have relied on this for years.  They
are crammed full of gyroscopes in all orientations and  rotating
in different directions.
                                --David Miller

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1985  16:09 EDT
Sender: WHOLEY@CMU-CS-C.ARPA
From: Skef Wholey <Wholey@CMU-CS-C.ARPA>
To:   Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Filming in Space

    From: kvue!spangler (Lance Spangler)

    That is, the feed reel and the take up reel literally sat on top of each
    other, with a small hub between each to take care of the difference in reel
    speed.

    I'm sure Arriflex or who ever is making the motion picture cameras for NASA
    these days could whip one out.

A big point Arri is making in its advertisements lately is that the Arri
cameras used for these (non-IMAX) films are "off-the-shelf" equipment.  An
interesting article on filming aboard the shuttle appears in a recent issue of
American Cinematographer (May 1985, I think).  These are the first
off-the-shelf cameras ever used by NASA, and they finally seem to have accepted
that they needn't build their own.

The article doesn't mention the gyroscoping problem, so maybe it wasn't as big
a problem (at least for the 16mm cameras) as some think.  Or maybe the author
wasn't ready to explain physics to a bunch of movie people.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jul 85 17:10:02 pdt
From: Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s) <mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley>
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: RE: Space Whoopee

	Quite aside from the sniggering in this matter, there's a serious
question here.  Can humans conceive and reproduce in free fall? Maybe it
will never matter (the O'Neill colony will have artificial gravity) but we
still should find out.

	The effects of free fall on a fetus can't be measured until the
space station goes up, and for that matter the effects on a human fetus
shouldn't be explored at all until there has been at least one animal
(preferably primate) pregnancy and birth in space.  However, we can test the
ability to conceive right now: send a pair of rabbits up, with the female
due to go in heat while in orbit.  This test wouldn't prove the negative
result conclusively if the rabbits refused to Do It, but that (knowing
rabbits) is fairly unlikely....

					Rick.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #212
*******************

14-Jul-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #213    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 213

Today's Topics:
			  Re: Rotational Inertia
			  Re: Shuttle Comps etc
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
[Communications Satellite <COMSAT@MIT-MC.ARPA>: Msg of Saturday, 13 July 1985 12:53-EDT]
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!hull
From: hao!hull (Howard Hull)
Subject: Re: Rotational Inertia
Date: 12 Jul 85 18:43:56 GMT
Organization: High Altitude Obs./NCAR, Boulder CO

> From: jrv@Mitre-Bedford
> 
> 
> > I've been watching the comments concerning ways to overcome the gyroscopic
> > inertia problem with the OMNIMAX cameras with growing disbelief. The 'fix'
> > seems to consist of a second counterrotating mass whose angular momentum
> > is matched by various means to that of the filmreel. It won't work, of course.
> > Adding a second rotating mass, counterrotating, at right angles, or
> > whatever will simply *ADD* to the problem by creating more angular
> > momentum. You might as well try to 'cancel' some mass by adding some
> > mass in another place; it just doesn't work that way.
> 
> Of course it works that way.  The angular momentum of a collection of
> masses is a vector sum of the angular momenta of the masses, so it's
> possible for the sum to come to zero.  Can anyone think of a simple
> demonstration?
> 				      - Jim Van Zandt
Sure.  Two skaters spin up in opposite directions, approach each other, and
then lock arms.  Presto, net zero angular momentum.  If the proposed theory
is correct, all of the atoms in both their livers will be found to be spinning
in opposite directions...
								     Howard Hull
[If yet unproven concepts are outlawed in the range of discussion...
                   ...Then only the deranged will discuss yet unproven concepts]
        {ucbvax!hplabs | allegra!nbires | harpo!seismo } !hao!hull

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!ames!eugene
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Re: Shuttle Comps etc
Date: 12 Jul 85 16:32:35 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

PLEASE MOVE THE DISCUSSION OF IMAX/OMNIMAX INTERIA TO net.movies or
net.rec.photo.  Does its really belong here?

> From: jim@TYCHO.ARPA    (James B. Houser)
> 
> Hi
> 
>         Thanx for the numerous replies on my question  about  the  STS
> computers.  Those  beasties are really grotesque!!  A number of people
> mentioned rumors of a plan to  upgrade  the  system  but  no  concrete
> pointer  emerged  from  the discussion.  Any words from NASA types out
> there?
> 
> 			Jim Houser (jim@tycho)
> 

I don't think are any plans in the immediate lifetime of the shuttle
to upgrade them.  As others have pointed out there were technology
freezes in the early 1970s which 'forced' this.  Payload computers
will certainly change, but don't expect these.  This is called "if it works
don't fix it."  Oh hum.

On an added note: on a recent trip to the Dryden Landing site, I saw
a little case in the visitor center there showing onboard avonics
history: 1960, 1970, 1980s and sample electronics.  The 1980s [future]
were represented with Intel 8080s [it's the numbers right?] :-)
Service technologies to aerodynamics are unfortunately always oing to
take a backseat.  [Until some one leaps ahead.]  Dryden has a much better
museum and gift shop than Ames.

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,decwrl,allegra}!ames!aurora!eugene
  emiya@ames-vmsb.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!hplabs!sri-unix!knutsen
From: knutsen@sri-unix.ARPA (Andrew Knutsen)
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 11 Jul 85 19:38:29 GMT
Organization: SRI, Menlo Park, CA.


	Re the IMAX gyro problem, it seems to me all you'd need is
one extra wheel to counter the excess angular momentum of both film
reels. It would spin first in one direction, slow to a stop at the
middle, then spin the other way. This would take either a micro or
some sort of clever sensor to control, but due to the varying masses
some control would be required even with two wheels.

	Actually, I dont have all that much experience with counter-
rotating gyros. Someone recently claimed that gyro action could not
be compensated for, but from my understanding of the effect the
precession problems could be alleviated at least.  Would there still
be a resistance to rotation? I would say that might even be a "feature"
rather than a "bug".

Andrew

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!petsd!peora!jer
From: peora!jer (J. Eric Roskos)
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 11 Jul 85 12:57:33 GMT
Organization: Perkin-Elmer SDC, Orlando, Fl.

I know I must be grossly bekinghted to be asking this, but...

what is so special about these IMAX films?  Everyone keeps saying "go look
at the projector," so I went over to NASA this weekend and looked for it,
but it appears to be locked up in some upstairs room.

I had thought maybe the rate at which the frames were shown was extremely
fast or something (because of the comments on inertia, etc.), but it
doesn't look that way since specks of dust on the film stay long enough to
see them fairly well.

If you know, mail the answer to me, since everyone else seems to already
know the answer to this great mystery...
-- 
Shyy-Anzr:  J. Eric Roskos
UUCP:       ..!{decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!vax135!petsd!peora!jer
US Mail:    MS 795; Perkin-Elmer SDC;
	    2486 Sand Lake Road, Orlando, FL 32809-7642

	    Gur ArgArjf... n qlvat pbzzhavpngvba sbez?

------------------------------

Date: Sat 13 Jul 85 12:55:00-EDT
From: James J. Hagen Jr. <MDC.HAGEN%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject: [Communications Satellite <COMSAT@MIT-MC.ARPA>: Msg of Saturday, 13 July 1985 12:53-EDT]
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA


                ---------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jul 85 12:53:36 EDT
From: Communications Satellite <COMSAT@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject: Msg of Saturday, 13 July 1985 12:53-EDT
To: MDC.HAGEN@MIT-OZ

============ A copy of your message is being returned, because: ============
"SPACE-REQUESTS" at MIT-MC.ARPA is an unknown recipient.
============ Failed message follows: ============
Date: Sat 13 Jul 85 12:52:58-EDT
From: James J. Hagen Jr. <MDC.HAGEN%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject: Address change
To: space-requests@MIT-MC.ARPA

Please change MDC.HAGEN%OZ to HAGEN%OZ. Thanks much...
-------
-------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #213
*******************

15-Jul-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #214    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 214

Today's Topics:
			    Teachers Selected
			      Launch Aborted
			 Columbia Back in Service
			   Shuttle Frequencies
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!bellcore!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Teachers Selected
Date: 2 Jul 85 00:48:22 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

Ten teachers, six women and four men, were chosen by NASA today
as finalists out of a group of 100 vying for the chance to be
the first private citizen in space.  The ten, ranging in age from
35 to 45, will be flown to Houston on 12 July for a series of
medical tests and a flight in a KC-135 plane to get their first
taste of weightlessness.  NASA will pick one teacher and a backup
for the January, 1986, flight of the Challenger.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Launch Aborted
Date: 13 Jul 85 05:40:18 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The Challenger's launch attempt was aborted today, just
three seconds before SRB ignition.  In a near replay of
the abort last summer, a valve that regulates the flow
of hydrogen into the Number 2 Engine did not respond to
its primary control circuit.  A backup circuit sent the
proper command 40 milliseconds after the failure was
detected, but by that time, the ground sequence computer
decided to abort the launch -- NASA rules forbid a launch
unless all systems, including redundancies, are functioning,
so that backups will be available once in flight.  At the
time of the abort, two engines were at full power, while
the Number 2 Engine was near it.  A water spray system,
installed after last summer's abort and proceeding fire,
activated, but there was no fire.  NASA said the launch
will be delayed at least 7 to 10 days while an assessment
of the problem is made.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Columbia Back in Service
Date: 12 Jul 85 12:20:03 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The nation's first spaceworthy shuttle, Columbia, was towed
from its Rockwell plant yesterday, an 18 month overhaul
completed.  The ship is scheduled to return to KSC on Sunday.
During the overhaul, the Columbia's wings and body were
strengthened, new engine's were installed, ejection seats
removed, and HUD's implaced, among other things.  The
Columbia is now capable of flying 100 missions without
overhaul, except for main engine work.  The Challenger is
next scheduled for overhaul, in order to bring it up to
date with Discovery, Atlantis, and now the Columbia.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!petsd!petfe!johnd
From: petfe!johnd (John Decatur)
Subject: Shuttle Frequencies
Date: 12 Jul 85 20:58:42 GMT
Organization: Perkin-Elmer DSG, Tinton Falls, N.J.


 
 for those who like to listen to hams at work...
 this shuttle flight has two, W0ORE, tony and W4NYZ john.
 also sstv this flight!

 planned shuttle frequencies for 51-f are:
 (all freq. in mhz.)

 direct 2m down - 145.55 (slow scan tv in color also...)

 nasa/goddard greenbelt md.
     3.860 ssb
     7.185 ssb
    14.295 ssb
    21.390 ssb 
   147.450 fm wash dc area

 jet prop. lab/pasadena ca.
   
   224.040 fm
   145.460 fm

 marshall space flight cntr huntsville ,al
 
   145.430 fm

 nasa/aims san francisco, ca
  
   145.580 fm
     7.270 ssb

 new york city area
 
   147.000 fm (as avail)
                                              good listening....
                                                  es 73,
                                                       de KA2QHD

-- 
                                73, de ...johnd (KA2QHD)
                   {ucbvax|decvax}!vax135!petsd!pedsgd!pedsga!johnd
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #214
*******************

16-Jul-85  0353	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #215    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 215

Today's Topics:
			    Re: Launch Aborted
		      Actuator Thought to be Problem
				   IMAX
		       IMAX and the Shuttle flights
			  Re: Orphaned Response
			   Solar System mobile
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
		      Re: Speed of Light and beyond
			   Re: Nuclear Rockets
			  Re: Space Whoopee ...
			Re: Space Whoopee <yawn!>
		       Angular Momentum Cancelation
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!jg
From: mit-eddie!jg (Jim Gettys)
Subject: Re: Launch Aborted
Date: 14 Jul 85 15:59:07 GMT
Reply-To: jg@mit-eddie.UUCP (Jim Gettys)
Organization: MIT, Cambridge, MA
Keywords: Shuttle, Challenger, Launch


I was at JSC for the attempted launch of Spacelab 2 Friday. (I worked on
the Infrared Telescope that will fly on it five years ago...).  The word
was in a meeting to discuss the impact on various experiments on SL2 that
another attempt would be no earlier than July 30.  This was given as a
"first guess" rather than as gospel; meetings yesterday were to firm up
the estimate.  This would put launch at full moon, which is the least
desirable time for two or three experiments on board.  Any slip beyond
this date will again improve the situation.  The concensus of all of the
experimenters was to "go" as soon as Challenger is ready, even if it hurts
some of the experiments.  A good reason for this feeling is the effort
required to get every thing ready for flight is large, and the longer the
payload sits, the more trouble people will have with their experiments.
There are more and more things which must be serviced the longer the
payload sits on the ground.

This delay should allow the repair of experiment 13 (Super Fluid
Helium), which had a vacuum pump failure a couple days before the launch
attempt. This failure caused some pump oil to be spilled in the payload bay.
This caused KSC to have to turn off the pump, allowing the LHe to go
normal, which would have cause at least half of the helium to be lost when
reconverted on orbit (if successful...).

			Jim Gettys
			Project Athena
			jg@mit-athena.arpa

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Actuator Thought to be Problem
Date: 14 Jul 85 05:13:20 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

NASA said today that technicians believed yesterday's abort to be due to a
faulty actuator on a hydrogen cutoff valve.  The actuator will be removed
Sunday for extensive testing, and NASA officials will meet Monday to
decide how to proceed -- whether to set another launch date or move the
Challenger off the pad and delay its mission indefinitely.  Timing becomes
critical now.  Columbia is scheduled to arrive at the Cape on Sunday,
marking the first time all four shuttle have been at the space centre.
Atlantis is due to be moved into the VAB this week for mating with SRB's
and ET and then moved to the launch pad for a flight readiness test firing
(lasting 20 seconds) on 30 July.  If Challenger's launch is set for later
this month, that firing will be delayed, thereby postponing Atlantis'
maiden mission, now set for mid-September.  Discovery is due to launch on
24 August; its mission will be to deploy three communications satellites
and attempt to rescue to the stranded Syncom satellite.  The launch window
for that mission is only four days wide.  Columbia's next launch, its
first after its recently completed overhaul, is set for December.

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 85 13:31:06 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: IMAX
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

I just got back from a trip to DC and spent an afternoon in the National Air
and Space Museum. Naturaqlly, I had to see the IMAX movies we've been
hearing about for so long.

My opinions on The Dream is Alive probably overlap those of many others. I
wish they had left out the good film technique (ie cuts to different items
like smiling faces in launch control at 'right' intervals for 'pacing', etc)
and just shown the launch. IMAX is so real (except for an annoying jitter
when showing rapid motion) that cuts are annoying as all hell. I think it's
about as near to real as you can get with film.

I think I could watch 90 minutes of the earth passing below with just the
music background.

I disagree with Eugene about the landing. Having flown a Cessna, I guarantee
you that the approach was not just like any aircraft!!!! I was almost glad
they cut to an external view before touchdown; I was already cringing for
the impact.  If you've never FLOWN an approach it may have looked normal,
but if you have....JEEZUS!!!! (FULL POWER! CARB HEAT OFF! NOSE UP! ESTABLISH
CLIMB OUT! FLAPS UP!! TOILET PAPER DISPENSED!!!)

Despite the detractions caused by attempts at artistry, the film is worth
seeing again and again. If you're a really hard core spacer and cry at
launches, bring some kleenex; you'll need it.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!hplabs!hpisla!hplvla!chris
From: hplvla!chris (chris)
Subject: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 11 Jul 85 19:40:00 GMT
Organization: HP Loveland Instrument Division


There is an IMAX theatre in Denver, Colo, at the Museum of Natural
History, and there is one on the South Rim of the Grand Canyon, in the
little village just south of the Park boundary. I suspect there are others
in other major cities, maybe their residents will respond.
hpfcla!hplvla!chris

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!hplabs!hp-pcd!hpgrla!erickp
From: hpgrla!erickp (erickp)
Subject: Re: Orphaned Response
Date: 8 Jul 85 18:23:00 GMT

The Museum of Natural History in Denver has an IMAX theater.

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 85 14:45:34 PDT (Monday)
Subject: Solar System mobile
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: XeroxSpace^.PA@Xerox.ARPA
From: Nick <NNicoll.ES@Xerox.ARPA>

Does anyone know where a mobile of the solar system like the one in
"Last Starfighter" can be obtained.  I've tried the gift shops of the
Aviation and Space Museum here and in San Diego with no luck.

\\ Nick

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!brl-tgr!ron
From: ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron@brl-tgr.ARPA>)
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 15 Jul 85 21:26:55 GMT
Organization: Ballistic Research Lab

> I had thought maybe the rate at which the frames were shown was extremely
> fast or something (because of the comments on inertia, etc.), but it
> doesn't look that way since specks of dust on the film stay long enough to
> see them fairly well.
> 
Those specs are on a glass plate which is in direct contact with the
film.  The plate is slightly larger than twice the image size and there
is a little gizmo for sliding it back and forth while the projector is
in use to get a clean portion.  It is however manually operated.

For those who are around the Washington area, to get to the projection
room at NASM, go in and watch the movie.  As you are walking up to exit
the theater, use the right side aisle (house left).  There will be a closed
door on the left as you exit the theater.  Go through it, climb up the ladder
and there you are.

-Ron

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!teddy!rdp
From: teddy!rdp
Subject: Re: Speed of Light and beyond
Date: 15 Jul 85 21:09:09 GMT
Reply-To: rdp@teddy.UUCP (Richard D. Pierce)
Organization: GenRad, Inc., Concord, Mass.

In article <5602@utzoo.UUCP> henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) writes:
>> I know this is impossible, but what would happen if...
>> 
>> A ship could exceed the speed of light?  When the space shuttle crosses the
>> sound barrier, there is a sonic boom.  If it were possible to cross the
>> "light barrier", what phenomenon would result?
>
>A lot of heart attacks in the physics community, for one. :-)
>
>More seriously, as I recall it, the basic answer to this from relativity
>(if we ignore tachyons, which are a messy case) is "does not compute".
>Faster-than-light speeds involve logical contradictions (notably, loss of
>the normal cause-and-effect relationship) according to special relativity.
>This being the case, the theory basically cannot give coherent predictions
>about such a situation.
>
>I'd be very interested to hear this contradicted by somebody who knows
>more about the subject...
>-- 

In fact, under the right conditions, one can achieve "faster than light"
travel. While on cannot exceed a certain velocity "c" (2.99 x 10^8 m/s),
the velocity of propogation of light through matter is somewhat less than
this inviolable "c". For example, (if my memory serves me) light travels
about 30% slower in water than it does in a vacuum. Under this circumstance,
something which travels faster than that (but still MUST be less than "c")
will, in fact, produce the light equivalent of a sonic boom, known as
Cerenkov radiation. This is a shock wave which travels outward in a cone
(whose included angle is proportional to the ratio of the speed of light
in the media to the speed of the particle).

Note that no violation of any physical law occurs. Nothing can travel
faster than the sacred "Speed of Light" , which is the speed of light
absent of any influences (matter). 

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!teddy!rdp
From: teddy!rdp
Subject: Re: Nuclear Rockets
Date: 15 Jul 85 21:15:51 GMT
Reply-To: rdp@teddy.UUCP (Richard D. Pierce)
Organization: GenRad, Inc., Concord, Mass.

In article <1839@mordor.UUCP> @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC:jheimann@bbnccy writes:
>From: John H. Heimann <jheimann@BBNCCY.ARPA>
>
>
>	Back in the 'sixties, there were a number of programs (funded, I think,
>by NASA and what was then AEC) to develop nuclear powered space propulsion
>schemes.  The ones I recall are project Orion, which involved the detonation of
>
>	My question is, why were these projects cancelled?  I can imagine that
>project Orion would violate the Limited Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, which
>prohibits atmospheric or outer-space testing of nuclear weapons.  The main
>reason I can think of for cancelling the hydrogen/reactor engine is concern
>about radioactive exhaust or, if the rocket should crash, radioactive waste.
>Neither of these concerns would be legitimate if the engine were used well
>outside the earth's atmosphere.  There is of course the problem of getting a
>fission reactor safely into orbit.  A few tons of plutionium oxide, molten from
>reentry, would not be the nicest thing to have falling into one's backyard. 
>

The use of nuclear propulsion tended (in the case of the non-explosive
technique) to result in extremely high exhaust velocities and very high
efficiencies, but extremely low thrusts. I recall hearing of thrusts in the
neighborhood of ounces! Such propulsion methods are useful when you can
tolerate long durations of firings (months or years) and do not need
tremendous accelerations. For near-earth and earth-moon manned missions, and
the like, what was needed was lots of thrust over short periods of time, the
kinf of things chemical rockets are good at.

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1985 21:59 PST
From: Lars Poulsen <LARS@ACC>
Subject: Re: Space Whoopee ...
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: LARS@ACC


From "The Weekly" of Santa Barbara, July 11th, comes this little
filler piece titled ''SEX IN SPACE'':
''Seeking to ensure the success of space missions, NASA has to be
sensitive to the needs of its crew members. With the first US space
station scheduled to go up in 1992, and "manned" by members of
both sexes, provisions for some extra-terestrial nookie are cur-
rently being explored. According to Yvonne Clearwater, an envir-
onmental psychologist for the space agency, normal, healthy
professionals will probably possess normal, healthy sexual appe-
tites. It isn't NASA's job to make moral judgments, just to make
sure the station's scientific work isn't disrupted. And that, says
Clearwater, means providing an "environment where needs for
auditory and visual privacy are met."''
------

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-pen!kallis
From: kallis@pen.DEC
Subject: Re: Space Whoopee <yawn!>
Date: 15 Jul 85 14:01:28 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network


	The question of whether a woman or other mammal could conceive in
"zero g" is easily answered without having to make a "Rabbit Test": 
	1) Most human activities have been tested in negative gravity (e.g.,
	   you can eat and swallow upside down; drinking water upside down
	   has been a folk remedy for curing hiccups for more than a century).
	2) Spermatozoa swim to their target.
	3) Fetrilized eggs attach to the uterus without help from gravity.
	4) The developing zygote/embryo/fetus is in a sac of amniotic fluid
	   that effectively puts it in as "weightless" an environment as
	   astronauts-in-training do when skindiving.  The chemical exchange
	   across the placental link is not dependent upon gravity.

	It's possible that there might be complications, but I rather suspect
not.  Don't forget that humans come from a billions-year-old evolutionary
chain that goes back to "weightless" sea life, and there are a lot of
safeguards buolt in.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-wsgate!fisher
From: fisher@wsgate.DEC
Subject: Angular Momentum Cancelation
Date: 15 Jul 85 17:27:56 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network

<>
Someone asked for an example of angular momentum cancellation.  Isn't there
a helicopter which has two counterrotating, coaxial blades, rather than
a tail rotor?  (Perhaps it was a Popular Science "Coming next year" article
that talked about it, rather than something real).

Burns

	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #215
*******************

17-Jul-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #216    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 216

Today's Topics:
		       Re: SPACE Digest V5 #215    
		    IMAX's The Dream is ... Fragmented
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue 16 Jul 85 20:50:25-EDT
From: James J. Hagen Jr. <MDC.HAGEN%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #215    
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA

I guess I can do the drive back to Rome thing with no probs, I am not sure if I
have to work on monday, so I may be able to just drive home to albany on monday.
I have been working unusual hours and somewhat infrequebntly( I quit minimum
wage trash and now doing moving for $8 an hour. It is interesting, got to move
a baby grand my first day on the job, problem is it is not dependable. hours
vary greatly)  I will bring one case of beer to delta, that should be reasonable
for our group.  
One problem with things, is I am low on cash, from this last week being quite 
slow with work.  I need a favor of you, to get $50 out of bank and I will give
you a quite good money order for the same amount from my grandma( I still have
no bank account, and my dad and Connie are currently away) Other wise I would
have about $10 dollars for gas and what ever else comes up with camping. I do
not need anything from base rec. I will bring tent, and I have everything I
should need, except a flashlight( I should buy one someday but I never seem to
get around to having it a major priorty).
See you thursday, tween 5 and 6. Are you planning to be home near 5 on thurs.
or what, should I head right to your house, or call you at work or what??
These questions and more, as soon as I think them up
-------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 85 19:49 PDT
From: Fournier.pasa@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: IMAX's The Dream is ... Fragmented
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Fournier.pasa@Xerox.ARPA

	I agree with Dale from Digest #215 about the use of "good film
technique" in The Dream is Alive being a detriment to the effect of
Being There that IMAX can produce.  I saw it on July 6th, at the Museum
of Science and Industry in Los Angeles.  
	The hold-your-breath awe that a launch always inspires in me was
missing because it kept getting short-circuited by cuts away to other
scenes.
	However, I found that I was mesmerized watching the earth pass
underneath the camera, and the minute the camera passed Italy, I began
anticipating Crete, so that I could see whether I could spot Thera (with
which I have always been fascinated) .  The cluster that's merely a dot
on most maps is truly obvious for the remains of a volcanic crater that
it is, from the air. I agree, Dale, I could watch the earth pass below
for much longer than they give you.
		Marina Fournier
		<fournier.pasa@Xerox>

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #216
*******************

18-Jul-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #217    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 217

Today's Topics:
				   IMAX
				 Sorry...
			simulated airline service
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wednesday, 17 Jul 1985 07:27-EDT
From: jrv@Mitre-Bedford
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject: IMAX

> I just got back from a trip to DC and spent an afternoon in the National Air
> and Space Museum. Naturaqlly, I had to see the IMAX movies we've been
> hearing about for so long.

I managed to see The Dream Is Alive too - and agree with the rave reviews.

> Despite the detractions caused by attempts at artistry, the film is worth
> seeing again and again. If you're a really hard core spacer and cry at
> launches, bring some kleenex; you'll need it.

If you want a good seat (near the middle of the theatre, NOT near one edge
of the screen) I think the way to do it is to buy tickets for two consecutive
presentations and move to the center between the two.  (I've forgotten how
the schedule runs - you might have to sit through flights through the Grand
Canyon in order to get a good seat for the shuttle flight.)

			       - Jim Van Zandt

------------------------------

Date: Wed 17 Jul 85 18:14:34-EDT
From: James J. Hagen Jr. <MDC.HAGEN%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject: Sorry...
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

To all the flamers that have sent back hundreds of copies of my message 
to me, I am sorry. It was quite late, and I replied to the wrong message
nunber in MM. It is an easy mistake to make.  And with the over efficiency
of TOPS-20 I didn't have a chance to hack it from the quee before it went on 
its way. Again sorry all.

------------------------------

From: <crash!usiiden!markf@Nosc>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 85 07:50:26 PDT
To: crash!noscvax!space@mit-mc
Subject: simulated airline service

NASA will begin a series of simulated airline flights to
operationally test new techniques designed to help smooth the air
flow over aircraft wings. * Previously reseach has shown that
smooth or laminar air flow can reduce aerodynamic drag from 25 to
40 percent under laboratory conditions and could provide
significant fuel savings. However, in actual flight, laminar flow
can be disrupted and distributed by insects, ice and other
obstructions adhering to the leading edges of an aircraft's wing.
* NASA Ames-Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, Calif. has
installed on its business sized JetStar aircraft two experimental
laminar flow control devices incorporating techniques to help
prevent leading edge contamination. * The simulated airline
service flights will be flown in widely separated areas of the
U.S. to experience a wide variety of contaminant conditions. *
The JetStar will be based at various NASA installations and at
commercial airports and will fly in and out of different airports
to obtain information on various takeoff and landing situations
that might affect the test articles. NASA will conduct the
simulated airline service flights just as an airline would under
normal air traffic rules and regulations. * While based at the
different airports to obtain information on various takeoff and
landing situations that might effect the test articles. NASA will
conduct the simulated airline service flights just as an airline
would under normal air traffic rules and regulations. * While
based at the different installations throughout the country,
researchers plan up to four flights each day during a 2-week
period to gather as much information as possible on performance
of the test articles. * The two leading edge test articles, one
installed on each wing of the JetStar, incorporate insect and ice
protection with laminar flow control. Tests conducted on the
JetStar in 1976 showed that the leading edge could be kept free
of insects if it was kept wet while encountering them. * The test
article installed on the left wing uses suction through 27 0.003
inch spanwise slots on the upper and lower surface to maintain
laminar flow. A propylene glycol methyl ether (PGME)/ water
mixture is discharged through several slots at the wing leading
edge and flows back over the wing for insect impact protection.
This article was manufactured for NASA by Lockheed-Georgia. *
The test article on the right wing uses suction through
approximately 1 million 0.0025 inch diameter holes in the
titanium skin to maintain laminar flow on the upper surface of
the article. For insect impact protection, a shield is extended
much like a wing leading edge flap on commercial transports. The
shield is retracted at 6,000 feet altitude. Spray nozzles behind
the shield can be used to spray the PGME/water mixture on the
test article for additional protection. * For ice prevention
during winter conditions, glycol is forced through the right
wing's porous metal section of the shield leading edge in additon
to the PGME/water spray. This article was manufactured for NASA
by McDonnell-Douglas. * Since the simulated airline service
flights are planned to approximate commercial flights as closely
as possible, NASA officials are meeting with commercial airline
officials to define what test conditions they would like to see
flown and will incorporate the results of these discussions into
flight planning. Researchers also are contacting entomologists in
areas of the country that the JetStar will fly to determine the
insect activity in each area. * The JetStar is configured as a
"flying control room" with test instrumentation aboard. There are
three consoles with data displays for researchers, who also have
the ability to adjust the suction on the test articles if
conditions warrant. * The JetStar will carry the Knollenberg
probe, mounted atop the aircraft, to precisely measure the number
and size of ice and water particles encountered in flight. A
charge patch, located on the pylon that holds the probe, measures
the static electric charge caused by particles in the air rubbing
across the patch surface and gives a qualitative measure of ice
and water particles. Correlation of the probe and patch data
could calibrate the charge measurements in a simple cockpit
display. Pilots could use the display to detect ice particles. *
The first series of operational flights is presently scheduled
for mid July. The JetStar will fly in and out of Hartsfield
Airport, Atlanta, Ga. * The program is a cooperative effort with
NASA's Langley Research Center. * From Debra J. Rahn
Headquarters, Washington, D.C. and Nancy Lovato Ames Dryden
Flight Research Facility, Edwards, Calif. *
-----------------------------------------------------------------
correction -> a recent posting on the net concerning proposals
for Commercial Development of Space was from Northeastern in
Boston not Northwestern which is in Chicago.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #217
*******************

20-Jul-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #218    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 218

Today's Topics:
			    Launch Rescheduled
			  Re: VIP Shuttle Passes
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!qantel!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Launch Rescheduled
Date: 15 Jul 85 20:59:37 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

Workers today replaced the faulty valve in the Challenger's
Number 2 Engine and rescheduled its launch for 1500 EDT, 29
July.  That could be changed by two days either way.  The
change in schedule maintains a 24 August launch date for
the Discovery but pushes a test firing of Atlantis' main engines
from 30 July to 12 September.  Atlantis' maiden launch,
originally scheduled for 19 September now slips to late
September or early October.  Challenger's 30 October launch
was moved to early November, but the 27 November Atlantis
and 20 December Columbia flights are preserved.  If the problem
with Challenger turns out to be more severe than the one
suspected, its mission may be delayed until next year; as
a purely scientific flight, it has lower priority than
commericial and DoD flights.

A second launch pad, 39B, will become available at KSC in
January, helping NASA to meet its tight schedule.  Also next
year will be the first launch from VAFB, scheduled for March;
the Discovery is expected to be assigned there permanently.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!daemon!tektools!pyramid!jeffg
From: pyramid!jeffg (Jeff Glover)
Subject: Re: VIP Shuttle Passes
Date: 15 Jul 85 03:54:40 GMT
Reply-To: jeffg@pyramid.UUCP (Jeff Glover)
Followup-To: net.columbia
Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR
Summary: wrong information!!!

In article <112@cpsc53a.UUCP> dta@cpsc53a.UUCP (Doug Anderson) writes:
>	Subject: VIP Shuttle Passes.
>
>	NASA has provided an address to write to to get VIP passes for 
>	future shuttle launches.  These passes allow the holder to take one
>	(1) vehicle on to Merritt Island (the place you see all the TV 
>	footage from during the launches). You can pile as many people in 
>	the vehicle as you wish.

1. 	The pass mentioned is not called a VIP pass.  I forget it's real
	name, but the VIP pass is entirely different and is *OFFERED*, not
	requested.  The TV footage is from the VIP area, not the pass area.

>	The sight is about 1.5 miles from the shuttle launch pad and you get 
>	GREAT viewing!!

2.	The site for the pass mentioned is about 5 miles due south of the
	launch pad;  I think even the blockhouse (Is that what it is called
	these days?) is 3 miles away!

>	While I've never requested a pass for a particular launch they seem
>	to try to get you one for the next launch available so if your
>	comming down to Florida you may just want to try and get a pass.

3.	I've been to that location twice; both times on someone else's pass.
	They seemed to have waited forever for them.
--
Jeff C. Glover, Tektronix, Inc. PO Box 500, MS Y6-546, Beaverton, OR 97077
{ decvax, allegra, hplabs, ihnp4 } tektronix!tekcbi!jeffg

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #218
*******************

22-Jul-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #219    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 219

Today's Topics:
			      NASA "GAS" Net
		       space whoopee and whoops...
			 Planning a new bboard...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: crash!bryan@SDCSVAX
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 85 08:31:53 PDT
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: NASA "GAS" Net

I was able to get through to NASA'S "GAS" net at 301/344-9156.
There realy isn't much interesting (from my point of view) but there was
some interesting shuttle news.

Sorry about the all caps, but that's the way it came.

***   SPACE SHUTTLE NEWS   ***   JULY 18, 1985   ***
 
   WORK IS CONTINUING TO PROCEDE SMOOTHLY AND ON TARGET TO READY
CHALLENGER FOR ANOTHER LAUNCH ATTEMPT NEAR THE END OF THIS MONTH.
MAIN ENGINE TURNAROUND WORK IS PROGRESSING WELL AND NO FURTHER
ABORT TROUBLE SHOOTING IS PLANNED ON THE VEHICLE ITSELF.
 
   ENGINEERING EVALUATION OF THE HARDWARE COMPONENTS THAT HAVE
BEEN REMOVED FROM CHALLENGER BECAUSE THEY COULD HAVE BEEN 
INVOLVED IN THE ABORT IS CONTINUING WITHOUT ANY SPECIFIC ROOT
CAUSE HAVING BEEN IDENTIFIED THUS FAR.
 
   THE LAUNCH PAD WAS CLEARED LAST NIGHT FOR ORDINANCE 
CONNECTIONS.  THE ORDINANCE WILL BE HOOKED BACK UP PRIOR TO
ENTERING ANOTHER LAUNCH COUNTDOWN.
  
   MEANWHILE, ORBITER ATLANTIS WAS MOVED INTO HIGH BAY 2 OF THE
VEHICLE ASSEMBLY BUILDING (VAB) THIS MORNING.  ATLANTIS WILL
REMAIN IN THE VAB UNTIL DISCOVERY IS ROLLED OUT FOR MATING WITH 
ITS EXTERNAL PROPELLANT TANK AND SET OF BOOSTER ROCKETS AROUND
AUGUST 1.
 
   POWER ON TESTING OF DISCOVERY TO PREPARE FOR THE PLANNED 
AUGUST 24TH LAUNCH OF MISSION 51-I IS CONTINUING.  ENGINE
PROCESSING IS IN WORK ALONG WITH TODAY'S PLANNED SERVICING OF
THE POTTABLE WATER AND AMMONIUM SYSTEMS.
 
   ORBITER COLUMBIA WILL BE MOVED OVER TO THE PROCESSING HANGER
VACATED BY ATLANTIS, AFTER WORKERS HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO
REVALIDATE SOME OF THE HANGER EQUIPMENT.  COLUMBIA IS PRESENTLY
IN TEH VAB TRANSFER AISLE.  ITS MOVE COULD COME AS EARLY AS THIS
AFTERNOON AT ABOUT 6 PM OR NOT UNTIL TOMORROW MORNING, 
DEPENDING ON THE WEATHER AND THE READINESS OF THE BAY TO 
RECEIVE IT.


	Bryan R. Walker
	crash!bryan@ucsd
	{ihnp4, cbosgd, sdcsvax}!crash!bryan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 85 10:09:29 EDT
From: smith@UDel-Dewey.ARPA
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: space whoopee and whoops...

It seems to me that Steve Kallis is quite right about conceiving in space -- it
isn't a very gravity assisted event.  What about delivery though?  The actual
"labor" is aptly named since it is a muscular event, but what about the 
(necessary) time when the baby "drops".  I'm neither biologist nor doctor enough
to rate even an opinion about this, but it seems that it COULD involve gravity.
Does anyone who knows any more about this have any ideas?

		art smith
(smith@udel-dewey.arpa)

------------------------------

Date:     Wed, 17 Jul 85 14:10:38 EDT
From:     Smith@UDel-Dewey.ARPA
To:       arpanet-bboards@mit-mc.ARPA, info-ibmpc@uci-icsb.ARPA, 
          human-nets@rutgers.ARPA, mailgroup@ucl-cs.ARPA, space@mit-mc.ARPA, 
          whimsey@uci-icse.ARPA
Subject:  Planning a new bboard...


Hi all!  

    Forgive me for intruding on your bulletin boards.... I am interested in
starting up a new bulletin board for those people who are participating in, or
are interested in participating in a community band (as in wind ensemble).
There seems to be a real upsurge of them in the Delaware Valley, and maybe it
is more widespread than that.  I am hoping that we can exchange ideas and
comments on good and bad arrangements, fund raising ideas, organizational
problems, etc.  If you are interested in seeing something like this, please
send me mail -- if I don't hear from enough people this bulletin board will
never be!  I am:

(ARPANET):	smith@UDel-dewey.ARPA
(CSNET):	smith@UDel-dewey@csnet-relay
(UUCP):		...!harvard!smith@udel-dewey

     -art smith

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #219
*******************

23-Jul-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #220    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 220

Today's Topics:
			      space delivery
			    Re: Birth in Space
		   Pregnancy and birth in microgravity
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 22 Jul 85 19:11:15 EDT
From: Walter.Smith@cmu-cs-wb1
Subject: space delivery
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

In one of Heinlein's books, the woman is positioned along the ship's main
axis in a comfortable chair, and at the appropriate moment the pilot, who is
also the midwife, fires the engines for a second or so using a convenient
footswitch.  Heinlein, at least, seems to think a rocket motor is a great
help to delivery.

- Walter Smith
  wrs@cmu-cs-wb1.arpa [soon to be wb1.cs.cmu.edu]
  ...!seismo!cmu-cs-k!wrs

------------------------------

From: Laurinda Rohn <rohn@rand-unix>
Date: 22 Jul 85 17:05:18 PDT (Mon)
To: Space-Enthusiasts@mit-mc
Cc: rohn@rand-unix
Subject: Re: Birth in Space

I'm neither a doctor nor a mother, but I'll comment anyway! :-)
From what I'm told about normal delivery procedures, birth in
zero gee probably wouldn't be too much more difficult than it
is currently.  Births are usually performed with the mother
on the delivery table in a horizontal position.  This doesn't
allow gravity to help much at all.

(As a side note, doctors are [finally!] beginning to realize
that if they position the mother somewhat more vertically,
gravity does help as labor is somewhat less difficult and
shorter.)

					Lauri
					rohn@rand-unix.ARPA
					..decvax!randvax!rohn

"I told you when I met you I was crazy..."

------------------------------

Return-path: SWB%CORNELLA.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA
Date:         Mon, 22 Jul 85 23:47 EDT
From:           Scott Brim  <swb%cornella.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA>
Subject:      Pregnancy and birth in microgravity
To:  <Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA>

Birth itself will not be a problem.  Babies are squeezed out, they
don't fall out, although gravity can be used as a handy tool.  The
problem will be getting the baby into position for birth.  The "drop"
that takes place (usually days) before labor begins sets up the baby
for the birth.  Long before that, I'm sure gravity is involved in
making sure most babies are oriented head downward and facing backward,
the safest and easiest position.  There are exercises prescribed to
mothers whose babies are in "breach" position, but I'm pretty sure the
traditional ones also depend on gravity for their (limited)
effectiveness.  Hmmm.  I can see we have a lot of experimentation ahead.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #220
*******************

24-Jul-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #221    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 221

Today's Topics:
			Re:  SPACE Digest V5 #220
		    information on star and earth maps
			      Space Delivery
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:     Tue, 23 Jul 85 9:06:55 EDT
From:     Jeffrey Allred (RAMD-STU) <allred@AMSAA.ARPA>
To:       Space-Enthusiasts@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject:  Re:  SPACE Digest V5 #220


Please delete me from the mailing list.  Thank you
Jeff Allred
allred@amsaa

------------------------------

Date:           Tue, 23 Jul 85 13:35:20 PDT
From:           Lt. Bill Fish <fish@AEROSPACE.ARPA>
To:             space@mit-mc
Subject:        information on star and earth maps

Does aanyone know oof any star or earth maps avaiable on the arpanet.

Thanks in advance 

Bill

------------------------------

Date: 24 JUL 1985 0052 EDT
From: BRUC at MIT-MC.ARPA (Robert E. Bruccoleri)
Subject: Space Delivery
To: SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS at MIT-MC.ARPA

After having helped my wife with the pregnancy and delivery of our
two children (one is 2 months old, the other is 2 years old), I found
the remarks about pregnancy and birth in zero-G amusing to say the least.
There are some misconceptions here.

First, Scott Brim is correct about how babies are born; they are
squeezed out. The longest phase of labor is nothing more than the
uterus contracting with great force at short intervals (every few
minutes) using the baby to dilate the cervix to a size large enough to
let the baby out (about 4 inches!). The influence of gravity in this
process is subtle in that the blood vessels to the uterus are located
in the back, so that the weight of the uterus restricts the blood flow
when the mother is on her back, and the uterus will not contract so
forcefully (and painfully, as it happens) If she stands or merely
turns to her side, then the contractions get stronger. In zero-G, this
blood flow restriction will not occur, so labor will probably proceed
more quickly.

Second, during the actual birth, our doctor had my wife ease off pushing
when the maximum width of the baby's was emerging. He did this in order
to reduce the likelyhood of a tear. A gravity assist at this juncture
would not have been appreciated.

Third, the process of getting the baby oriented properly appears
to be one of fit between the baby's head and the pelvis of the mother,
since head down makes optimum use of the abdominal space. With our
second child, he kept switching between head down and sideways,
although towards the end, he began to spend most of his time sideways.
He was moved into the head down position by externally pushing on
his head while taking care that his umbilical cord was not getting
wrapped about his neck. During the last two weeks in utero, he
stayed head down. My wife did notice that he would shift upward
a little when she laid down, so gravity does play some role here.
An ultrasound imager will definitely be helpful for delivery in space.

One final thought: delivery is mighty messy, and a little gravity
would help a lot in keeping liquid matter from getting all over
the place.

Bob Bruccoleri

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #221
*******************

25-Jul-85  0358	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #222    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 222

Today's Topics:
		     Re: space whoopee and whoops...
		     Re: Angular Momentum Cancelation
			    Re: Space Whoopee
			    Re: Space Whoopee
			Experiment Computer Fails
			    Re: Space Whoopee
		     Re: Angular Momentum Cancelation
			Re: IMAX Release Schedule
	    Answer to: What do you call the "blockhouse" now?
			Re: Voyager, on to Uranus.
	       Launches NASA Activities, v16, n6, June 1985
			 Would a candle burn ...
			    RE: Space Whoopee
		     Re: Angular Momentum Cancelation
			Re: Voyager, on to Uranus.
			Re: Voyager, on to Uranus.
		     Columbia's Tiled Damaged by Rain
		     Re: Angular Momentum Cancelation
	 Re: VIP Shuttle Passes - support for correction article
			  Re: Orphaned Response
			  Re: VIP Shuttle Passes
		     Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
		     Re: space whoopee and whoops...
			     Teacher Selected
			    Re: IMAX theatres
	 Re: VIP Shuttle Passes - support for correction article
			Re: Voyager, on to Uranus.
		       Re: Would a candle burn ...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!elsie!sck
From: elsie!sck (Steve Kaufman)
Subject: Re: space whoopee and whoops...
Date: 23 Jul 85 18:35:31 GMT
Organization: NIH-LEC, Bethesda, MD
Summary: forceps are used in only a minority of births

In article <10626@rochester.UUCP>, nemo@rochester.UUCP (Wolfe) writes:

> It should be called "push/pull" these days.  The woman is flat on her back
> and the baby is pulled out (forceps!) once she pushes it far enough.
>

        As I imagine "nemo" already knows,
	forceps are used in only a minority of births.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!dma
From: ssc-vax!dma (Dennis Anderson)
Subject: Re: Angular Momentum Cancelation
Date: 22 Jul 85 14:15:01 GMT
Organization: Boeing Aerospace Co., Seattle, WA

> 
> There is a Soviet helicopter. Its NATO designation is HORMONE (don't ask
> me why) which has two counter-rotating sets of blades and no tail rotor.
> 
> I do not know of any american helicopters that use this principle.
> 
> Apostolos Dollas
>         USENET:	...!{pur-ee,ihnp4}!uiucdcs!dollas 
>         ARPA:	dollas@uiuc.arpa

The Boeing/Vertol CH-47 also has counter-rotating rotors, and no tail rotor.


				Dennis Anderson @ Boeing Aerospace

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!timeinc!greenber
From: timeinc!greenber (Ross M. Greenberg)
Subject: Re: Space Whoopee
Date: 22 Jul 85 18:01:20 GMT
Reply-To: greenber@timeinc.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg)
Organization: Time, Inc. - New York

Doesn't the idea of intimate relations somehow tie in with the idea
of how you move in space with no, er, reaction pistol???

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross M. Greenberg  @ Time Inc, New York 
              --------->{vax135 | ihnp4}!timeinc!greenber<---------

I highly doubt that Time Inc.  would make me their spokesperson.
----
"I was riding a wombat this morning, 'till it broke its leg. I had to
 shoot it"  -- Ranger on Camel

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!hplabs!qantel!ihnp4!cbosgd!clyde!watmath!utzoo!utcs!mnetor!fred
From: mnetor!fred (Fred Williams)
Subject: Re: Space Whoopee
Date: 17 Jul 85 13:05:47 GMT
Reply-To: fred@mnetor.UUCP (Fred Williams)
Organization: Computer X (CANADA) Ltd., Toronto, Ontario, Canada

In article <2641@mordor.UUCP> @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC.ARPA:mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley writes:
>
>	Quite aside from the sniggering in this matter, there's a serious
>question here.  Can humans conceive and reproduce in free fall? Maybe it
>will never matter (the O'Neill colony will have artificial gravity) but we
>still should find out.
>
	Come now! Do you really have any doubts???
	Of coarse not! We know what's going on in your mind.
	You want confirmation of Newton's third law!!!

Cheers,		Fred Williams

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Experiment Computer Fails
Date: 20 Jul 85 14:46:06 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

One of three computers that controls experiments in the
Challenger's cargo bay failed to activate when the experiments
were turned on.  NASA hopes that the remaining two computers
will be adequate to go ahead with the mission, now scheduled
for 29 July.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!ih1ap!gamma
From: ih1ap!gamma (tontille)
Subject: Re: Space Whoopee
Date: 21 Jul 85 19:13:43 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

[]

	I dont see any problems with positioning
(a modified 'Rocking Chair' position seems reasonable),
and this could lead to a small retail business providing
'Space Bondage' devices to prevent sudden undocking.

		Key-Man (and the Masters of Technology)

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!cbosgd!clyde!watmath!utzoo!dciem!king
From: dciem!king (Stephen King)
Subject: Re: Angular Momentum Cancelation
Date: 18 Jul 85 13:23:14 GMT
Reply-To: king@dciem.UUCP (Stephen )
Organization: D.C.I.E.M., Toronto, Canada

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I believe that the Soviet helicopter 'Hind' uses two counter-rotating
sets of blades mounted coaxially, but, unless I'm mistaken, it also has
a tail rotor for controlling yaw. Unlike film spools, however, the
helicopter blades will not change in mass as the turn.
                -=-=-= sjk.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!ittatc!dcdwest!sdcsvax!bmcg!yrdbrd
From: bmcg!yrdbrd (Larry J. Huntley)
Subject: Re: IMAX Release Schedule
Date: 15 Jul 85 22:34:17 GMT
Reply-To: yrdbrd@bmcg.UUCP (Larry J. Huntley)
Organization: Burroughs Corp. ASG, San Diego, CA.

>From: Walt Lazear <lazear@mitre.ARPA>

>The Air Force Times published a schedule of release dates for the new
>IMAX film "The Dream is Alive":

>October:

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!akgua!glc
From: akgua!glc (G.L. Cleveland [Lindsay])
Subject: Answer to: What do you call the "blockhouse" now?
Date: 20 Jul 85 19:09:53 GMT
Organization: AT&T Technologies/Bell Labs, Atlanta


  The earlier launch pads at Cape Canaveral all had "blockhouses"
which were made larger and with thicker walls as the launch
vehicles got bigger.  (One is not supposed to call them "Missiles"
and "Rockets"...NASA only has "launch vehicles")

  These earlier pads were constructed in the days before digital
data links were around, so all the connections between the control
panels and the pad were discrete copper wires, one per signal.  For
gauge readings and other analog controls (potentiometers), there
was always a physical limit as to how long the wire could be before
the signal became unreliable.

  With the Apollo Project and the *huge* Saturn V launch vehicle,
(much larger than the Space Shuttle), the need to move back a few miles
changed the design of the pads.  Now you have the crawlerway to
move the entire vehicle and its launch pedestal from the assembly
building out to the pad.  That pedestal internally contains two
floors of equipment, including a computer system which is
data-linked to another computer system back at the control
panel complex (what you see everyone sitting at on the TV shots of
"Our dedicated and skilled technicians")

  To (finally) answer the question; it is called the Launch Control
Center (LCC).  It has windows facing the pad(s) which have steel
blast shutters over them.  These are closed whenever there is fuel
aboard the vehicle and during launch.  Those windows make it a lot
less claustrophobic for the day-to-day working folks.  Those older
blockhouses gave you a feeling like being in "Der Fuhrers Bunker!"
You had a periscope to see out with, and that was all!

  Another reason for the LCC is economy.  Before, you would have one
blockhouse per pad.  With the Apollo program, it was planned to
have two pads, with possible expansion to more.  With data-link
techniques, one LCC could be used for all the pads.  You merely
switch the LCC's computer hook-up to the desired pad's computer.

  OK trivia buffs: what kind of computers (manufacturer, operating
system, etc.) do they have in the LCC and launch pedestal?

Cheers,
  Lindsay

Lindsay Cleveland  (akgua!glc) (404) 447-3909   Cornet 583-3909
AT&T Technologies/Bell Laboratories ... Atlanta, Ga

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Voyager, on to Uranus.
Date: 19 Jul 85 16:16:36 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

The problem with the scan platform on Voyager 2 is particularly annoying
for the Uranus encounter, because Voyager is going through the Uranus
system at almost a right angle to the plane of Uranus's moons.  This means
a fairly brief close-encounter phase with interesting objects in several
well-separated directions.  One can safely predict considerable tearing of
hair over the final pointing schedule, given the need to move the platform
slowly if at all.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!ames!eugene
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Launches NASA Activities, v16, n6, June 1985
Date: 22 Jul 85 20:33:07 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

Expendable Launches
Date	Mission		Lunch vehicle		Launch site	Remarks
2nd Qtr	AF-16		Scout			WFF		USAF
2nd Qtr	Navy-22		Scout			WSMC		USN
2nd Qtr	Navy-23		Scout			WSMC		USN
August	Intelsat VA-D	Atlas Centaur		WSMC		Intelsat comm
August	NOAA-G		Atlas			WSMC		NOAA
3rd Qtr	AF-17		Scout			WFF		USAF
October	GOES-G		Delta			ESMC		NOAA
4th Qtr	San Marco	Scout			SMR		NASA/Italy

WSMC-Vandenberg, ESMC - Florida, WFF -Wallops, SMR - San Marcos Is. Indian Oc.

Shuttle Launches:
Mission	Date/Orbiter		Payloads	Crew (leaving off)
51-F	7/12/85, Challenger	Spacelab 2
51-I	8/10/85, Discovery	Syncom IV-4
				ASC-1
				MSL-1
				Aussat-1
				CFES
51-J	9/26/85, Atlantis	DOD
61-A	10/16/85, Columbia	Spacelab D-1
61-B	11/8/85, Challenger	Morelos-B
				Satcom KU-1
				Aussat-2
				EOS-1
61-C	12/20/85, Columbia	MSL-3
				HS-376
				Satcom KU-2
				EASE/ACCESS

------------

NOTE:  I have been put under a certain amount of pressure to limit
communications about certain "sensitive" areas of technology.  My management
is aware I read this news group due to a minor escapade two years ago.
They have encouraged my participation (within limits of work).

You may have seen news recently in newspapers regarding this new perspective
in NASA.  Among other things, which I can no longer answer questions on:
thermal protection, certain aspects of computer technology, and so forth.

In the past, I have answered mail asking questions not posed before this
news group.  I can continue to do this within the new bounds I have been given.
My personal opinion is for the free circulation of research information, but
my management has growing concern about government rules regarding the flow
of information to political and economic competitors to the US: namely
the Soviet Union and Japan.

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,decwrl,allegra}!ames!aurora!eugene

Disclaimer? Oh well!

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!gml
From: ssc-vax!gml (Gregory M Lobdell)
Subject: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 18 Jul 85 20:40:23 GMT
Organization: Boeing Aerospace Co., Seattle, WA

... in space?

This question came up the other day in discussion.  We seemed to think
that there would be problems because in the absence of a gravity field
the heated air would not rise.  Thus CO2 would not be pulled away from
the area of burning and O2 would not be pulled in.  Therefore
combustion would not be continuous.

What do you all think.  Have there been any experiments in this area.
I can see how NASA would be leary of any such experiment.  A fire in
space would be worse than a fire on a sailing vessel.  However, if the
above hypothisis is correct, such a fire would never happen.  And if
there was a fire, where would you point the fire extiguister?

Wanting to go for a ride on the Shuttle!
Gregg Lobdell
Boeing Aerospace {I only work for them and their opinions aren't mine}

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!ucbvax!decvax!tektronix!paulh
From: tektronix!paulh (Paul Hoefling)
Subject: RE: Space Whoopee
Date: 19 Jul 85 22:34:49 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR


>> ... NASA is planning for experiments involving intimate relations on board
>> the future space station with married couples ...
>> 
>> Question: How do you avoid moving from a stationary point in space while
>> having intimate relations.

From Eros Rising (Volume I of Tales of The Velvet Comet) by Mike Resnick:

"Never try to make love in free fall; you can strain everything you've got!"
-- 

Paul Hoefling
Information Pack Rat
uucp: {allegra,decvax,ihnp4,ucbvax,zehntel}!tektronix!paulh

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!decwrl!spar!freeman
From: spar!freeman (Jay Freeman)
Subject: Re: Angular Momentum Cancelation
Date: 21 Jul 85 00:53:05 GMT
Reply-To: freeman@max.UUCP (Jay Freeman)
Organization: Schlumberger Palo Alto Research, CA

[]

In article <15700023@uiucdcsb> dollas@uiucdcsb.Uiuc.ARPA writes:
>
>There is a Soviet helicopter. Its NATO designation is HORMONE (don't ask
>me why) which has two counter-rotating sets of blades and no tail rotor.
>
>I do not know of any american helicopters that use this principle.

An American manufacturer -- I think it was Kaman -- used to make some
helicopters that used contrarotating blades that meshed like the blades of
an eggbeater.  The Navy bought some of them.

-- 
Jay Reynolds Freeman (Schlumberger Palo Alto Research)(canonical disclaimer)

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Voyager, on to Uranus.
Date: 19 Jul 85 16:12:15 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

There is one such uncertainty, associated with the 1989 Neptune encounter
rather than the Uranus encounter:  nobody knows whether Neptune has rings
or not.  There is some evidence that it might.  The trajectory tentatively
planned for the Neptune encounter may have to be revised, because if the
ring reports are true, the trajectory takes Voyager straight into them.

Going to a more conservative trajectory would be a pity, because the Neptune
encounter (unlike the Uranus one) is not constrained by the need to reach
the next planet, and the planned path includes a very close flyby of Triton.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!mtuxo!drutx!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Re: Voyager, on to Uranus.
Date: 18 Jul 85 14:15:43 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

On the subject of Voyager 2's condition, there are two major systems
with problems.  One is the main receiver.  It doesn't work at all.
The backup does work but has problems locking on to Earth-based
signals in certain temperature ranges; JPL people in charge, though,
say they have worked away around this and that it shouldn't pose
a problem.  The other problem is that, during the passby of Saturn,
some damage was sustained in the mechanisms that move the camera
platform, causing it to stick at times.  Again, JPL said that there
should be no problem with this as the platform seems to move just
fine if moved slowly.  Also, they have learned how to point the
cameras by rotating the entire spacecraft.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Columbia's Tiled Damaged by Rain
Date: 18 Jul 85 23:54:14 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The tiles of the shuttle Columbia were damaged when the
ship fly through a 30-second rainstorm atop a Boeing
747 en route to KSC, NASA said today.  Initial estimates
said that a few hundred would have to be replaced, and
a couple thousand would need new outer coating.  The
Columbia, temporarily housed in the VAB, will be moved
to the OPF tomorrow.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!lll-crg!dual!qantel!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!uiucdcsb!seefromline
From: dollas%uiucdcsb@Uiuc.ARPA
Subject: Re: Angular Momentum Cancelation
Date: 16 Jul 85 13:48:00 GMT


There is a Soviet helicopter. Its NATO designation is HORMONE (don't ask
me why) which has two counter-rotating sets of blades and no tail rotor.

I do not know of any american helicopters that use this principle.

Apostolos Dollas
        USENET:	...!{pur-ee,ihnp4}!uiucdcs!dollas 
        ARPA:	dollas@uiuc.arpa

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!decwrl!sun!idi!burl!rcj
From: burl!rcj (Curtis Jackson)
Subject: Re: VIP Shuttle Passes - support for correction article
Date: 19 Jul 85 14:14:44 GMT
Reply-To: rcj@burl.UUCP (Curtis Jackson)
Organization: AT&T Technologies, Burlington NC
Keywords: right info given

The correction article recently posted was correct enough for govt. work :-)

"VIP passes are offered, not requested."  Requests for VIP passes can be made
if you have a decent postion working on/with the shuttle -- my father got
VIP passes for several launches when he was head of safety for United Space
Boosters, Inc. Vandenburg operations; he got them by asking for them.  These
passes allow you to get to the closest area for civilians which is, as was
noted in the correction, approximately 3 miles away.

The passes that the general public can request are approximately 5 miles
away, as noted in the correction article.

I do not have reliable info as to the availability or waiting list length
for these general passes.
-- 

The MAD Programmer -- 919-228-3313 (Cornet 291)
alias: Curtis Jackson	...![ ihnp4 ulysses cbosgd mgnetp ]!burl!rcj
			...![ ihnp4 cbosgd akgua masscomp ]!clyde!rcj

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!petsd!pesnta!hplabs!hp-pcd!hpfcmt!ron
From: hpfcmt!ron (ron)
Subject: Re: Orphaned Response
Date: 18 Jul 85 00:20:00 GMT

And you thought that the Shuttle program was going to 
provide USEFUL scientific data.

But..........NO !


I hope Coke and Pepsi paid a BIG bundle of $$ for the privilege of
taking the cola wars into space. 

This may be a bigger waste than taking "Ralph" Garns along as ballast.


Ron Miller
("Has anyone tried Shuttle skywriting yet ?")

{ihnp4}hpfcla!ron

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!bellcore!petrus!karn
From: petrus!karn (Phil R. Karn)
Subject: Re: VIP Shuttle Passes
Date: 20 Jul 85 19:53:45 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Inc

My own suggestion is to, if at all possible, get a PRESS pass instead of a
VIP pass. This gives you access to the "bleachers" and the rest of the Pad
39 Press Site, including the press conference room, and the Press Dome, with
dozens of nifty handouts for the taking. (My stack was about a foot high.)
There were plenty of bus tours. One was a general tour of the rest of Cape
Canaveral, while the real highlights were the three trips (daytime, sunset,
RSS rollback) out to the perimeter of the pad fence.  Standing just east of
the pad at night as the xenon spots were turned on was quite a memorable
experience; after that, the launch itself was almost anti-climactic.

Press passes are given to anyone with a bona-fide role as a writer or
reporter. In my case I was there with a colleague to "cover" the launch of
STS-9 (the first "ham-in-space" flight) for AMSAT's magazine. Others were
there from L-5, etc.  Press interest in shuttle missions has waned
considerably (only half the stands were filled for STS-9, and that was 1.5
years ago) so the competition isn't bad. Most of the press there were
obviously hard-core space junkies, but NASA certainly didn't mind that they
enjoy their "jobs".

The only problem with seeing a launch in person is that there is no
instant replay.

Phil

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!alberta!myriasb!cg
From: myriasb!cg (Chris Gray)
Subject: Re: IMAX and the Shuttle flights
Date: 19 Jul 85 16:22:57 GMT
Organization: Myrias Research, Edmonton

No one else up here seems to have mentioned it, so here goes:

The Edmonton Space Sciences Center has a brand new IMAX theatre (along
with some other stuff like a mockup of the Canadarm (sp?). I've seen
"Hail Columbia" and "Speed" there, and I think there is a new film
showing now, but I'm not sure which one it is. In the same building
is our planetarium with customary laser light show.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!rochester!nemo
From: rochester!nemo (Wolfe)
Subject: Re: space whoopee and whoops...
Date: 22 Jul 85 14:31:59 GMT
Organization: U. of Rochester, CS Dept.

> ...  What about delivery though?  The actual
> "labor" is aptly named since it is a muscular event, but what about the 
> time when the baby "drops".  ...it seems that it COULD involve gravity.
> Does anyone who knows any more about this have any ideas?
> 		art smith

It should be called "push/pull" these days.  The woman is flat on her back
and the baby is pulled out (forceps!) once she pushes it far enough.  I
would expect the amniotic fluid and other mess of that nature to be more
of a problem in a zero-g environment.  Perhaps a steady air flow drawing 
escaped fluids into a trap would be suitable.  Sometimes the neonate has
some fluid in the lungs that must be drained (hence the holding upside down
bit).  Perhaps a large, slow centrifuge could do the trick here ("No no!
I said 8 rpm, not 80!").
Nemo
-- 
Internet:	nemo@rochester.arpa
UUCP:		{decvax, allegra, seismo, cmcl2}!rochester!nemo
Phone:		[USA] (716) 275-5766 work, 232-4690 home
USMail:		104 Tremont Circle; Rochester, NY  14608
School:		Department of Computer Science; University of Rochester;
		Rochester, NY  14627

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxm!sftig!sftri!sfmag!eagle!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Teacher Selected
Date: 19 Jul 85 23:37:41 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

VIce President Bush today announced that Sharon Christa McAuliffe
from Concord High School, Concord, NH, would fly aboard the
January, 1986, mission of the shuttle Challenger.  The backup
selection was Barbara R. Morgan of McCall Connelly Elementary
School, McCall, Idaho.  Filling in for Mrs. McAuliffe on her
first day out of class will be education secretary William
J. Bennett.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!tektronix!hplabs!sdcrdcf!sdcsvax!sdcc3!sdcc6!loral!pavo
From: loral!pavo (Repo Man)
Subject: Re: IMAX theatres
Date: 18 Jul 85 14:22:28 GMT
Reply-To: pavo@loral.UUCP (Repo Man)
Organization: Edge City Rumor Control
Keywords: IMAXed out, net.imax.theatres, remember space shuttles


I guess we now know where all the IMAX theatres are in North America.
Can we get back to discussing the shuttle now?

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Re: VIP Shuttle Passes - support for correction article
Date: 20 Jul 85 14:49:00 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

You can also write to your Senator and request them.  This is the
most common way of doing it if you don't have other connections.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!ames!eugene
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Re: Voyager, on to Uranus.
Date: 22 Jul 85 20:02:03 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

> There is one such uncertainty, associated with the 1989 Neptune encounter
> rather than the Uranus encounter:  nobody knows whether Neptune has rings
> or not.  There is some evidence that it might.  The trajectory tentatively
> planned for the Neptune encounter may have to be revised, because if the
> ring reports are true, the trajectory takes Voyager straight into them.
> 
> Going to a more conservative trajectory would be a pity, because the Neptune
> encounter (unlike the Uranus one) is not constrained by the need to reach
> the next planet, and the planned path includes a very close flyby of Triton.
> -- 
> 				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
> 				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

There are many uncertainies.  Most are not visible to the naked eye:
radiation belts, large magnetic anomalies from satellites, gravitational
anomalies, intermediate swarms of astroids at a distance we cannot detect.
Some experiements such as the radio astronomy experiments must take place
on the lee side of the planet in order to get some idea which the upper
atmospheres are like.  Too bad the original Grand Tour mission was not
approved.

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,decwrl,allegra}!ames!aurora!eugene
  @ames-vmsb.ARPA:emiya@jup.DECNET

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!prls!amdimage!amdcad!amd!pesnta!lsuc!utcs!utzoo!utcsri!randy
From: utcsri!randy (Randall S. Becker)
Subject: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 21 Jul 85 18:30:25 GMT
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto

> ... in space?
> 
> This question came up the other day in discussion.  We seemed to think
> that there would be problems because in the absence of a gravity field
> the heated air would not rise.  Thus CO2 would not be pulled away from
> the area of burning and O2 would not be pulled in.  Therefore
> combustion would not be continuous.

Actually, I would suspect that this would depend on the diffusion rate of
CO2 in the ambient atmosphere. If CO2 would diffuse at a high enough rate
then (assume the presence of O2) the candle should continue to burn at an
ever decreasing rate. 

Forgive me if this sounds rediculous. It's been a while since I've taken 
any chemistry.

Randy

-- 
		Randall S. Becker
		Usenet:	..!utcsri!randy
		CSNET:	randy@toronto

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #222
*******************

26-Jul-85  0351	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #223    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 223

Today's Topics:
	      Antennae for amateur operations on the shuttle
		       Re: Would a candle burn ...
				 Tropics
			  Re: a burning question
			   Re: Nuclear Rockets
			    Re: Space Whoopee
			  Re: VIP Shuttle Passes
			   George Orwell quote
		       Re: Would a candle burn ...
		       Counterrotating Helicopters
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:     Wed, 24 Jul 85 9:42:22 CDT
From:     Will Martin -- AMXAL-RI <wmartin@Almsa-2>
To:       Space@Mit-Mc.arpa, info-hams@Simtel20.arpa
Subject:  Antennae for amateur operations on the shuttle

Does someone out there know what the antenna setup is for the anateur
radio operations on the space shuttle? Do the hams on board disconnect 
some mission radio equipment from external antennae and connect their
ham gear during the scheduled times of operation? Or are there extra
antennae installed, either mission spares or specially-set-up for the
amateur radio operations, that are used? Or are no external antennae
needed? (That is, is the shuttle made of enough composite and/or non-
metallic components that it is not a "Faraday cage" that would restrict
the RF radiation from passing through?)

I looked at at least one ham-radio magazine article on the subject, but
found no technical details like this, which surprised me. Have there
been QST or CQ articles covering ham radio on the shuttle with a lot of
technical details? (Those are the only two ham mags that I can get to
back issues of...)

Thanks for any info!

Regards,

ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA     USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!rochester!cmu-cs-pt!cadre!psuvax1!burdvax!sjuvax!tmoody
From: sjuvax!tmoody (T. Moody)
Subject: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 24 Jul 85 05:05:20 GMT
Organization: St. Joseph's University, Phila. PA.

> ... in space?
> 
> This question came up the other day in discussion.  We seemed to think
> that there would be problems because in the absence of a gravity field
> the heated air would not rise.  Thus CO2 would not be pulled away from
> the area of burning and O2 would not be pulled in.  Therefore
> combustion would not be continuous.
> 
> What do you all think.  Have there been any experiments in this area.
> I can see how NASA would be leary of any such experiment.  A fire in
> space would be worse than a fire on a sailing vessel.  However, if the
> above hypothisis is correct, such a fire would never happen.  And if
> there was a fire, where would you point the fire extiguister?
> 
> Wanting to go for a ride on the Shuttle!
> Gregg Lobdell
> Boeing Aerospace {I only work for them and their opinions aren't mine}
As to whether a candle would burn in null-g:  Seems to me that the 
kinetic energy of combustion would take care of expelling the CO2.  As
for the oxygen supply, I suspect that's done by atmospheric pressure, not
gravity, anyway.  It would *look* different, though.

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 25 Jul 85 10:19 EDT
From:  Houser@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA
Subject:  Tropics
To:  space@MIT-MC.ARPA


          A book I was reading recently mentioned  that  over  time  the
angle  of  the plane of the ecliptic changes.  The consequence is that
the latitude of the tropics also move.  While this  makes  sense,  the
book  also  stated that there is no formula which describes the motion
over  time.  Is  this  really  true?  The  context  was  that  certain
archeological  sites  are  solstice  oriented  and could be accurately
dated if it was known in what year a Tropic was at  X  latitude.  Just
curious.

                                        jim@tycho

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 85 10:01:00 PDT
From: Emilio Calius <calius@su-star>
Subject: Re: a burning question
To: "space%mit-mc" <space%mit-mc@score>
Reply-To: Emilio Calius <calius@su-star>


	Any 0-g system containing a combustible atmosphere is likely to be a
manned system. Therefore there should be some air currents caused by the air
conditioning system, the movement of bodies, etc. Wouldn't that contribute to
sustaining the combustion? Also, in present-day vehicles, you don't really get
0g due to the movement of masses and the firing of thrusters.
	In a lived-in environment there should be scraps of combustible material(paper) floating around which could propagate the fire.
	I'd feel nervous if I were going up in the Shuttle and another crew-
member insisted in bringing a book of matches and/or a lighter.
							Emilio P. Calius
							Aero/Astro, Stanford U.
------

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!teklds!dadla!jamesp
From: dadla!jamesp (Jim Perkins)
Subject: Re: Nuclear Rockets
Date: 23 Jul 85 15:44:20 GMT
Reply-To: jamesp@dadla.UUCP (Jim Perkins)
Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR

In article <939@teddy.UUCP> rdp@teddy.UUCP (Richard D. Pierce) writes:
>In article <1839@mordor.UUCP> @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC:jheimann@bbnccy writes:
>>From: John H. Heimann <jheimann@BBNCCY.ARPA>
>>
>>
>>	Back in the 'sixties, there were a number of programs (funded, I think,
>>by NASA and what was then AEC) to develop nuclear powered space propulsion
>>schemes.... 
>
>The use of nuclear propulsion tended (in the case of the non-explosive
>technique) to result in extremely high exhaust velocities and very high
>efficiencies, but extremely low thrusts. I recall hearing of thrusts in the
>neighborhood of ounces! Such propulsion methods are useful when you can
>tolerate long durations of firings (months or years) and do not need
>tremendous accelerations. For near-earth and earth-moon manned missions, and
>the like, what was needed was lots of thrust over short periods of time, the
>kinf of things chemical rockets are good at.


Quite true.  I believe you are talking about some sort of nuclear/ion
engine... wasn't there some type that used a hot reactor to heat, say,
hydrogen gas that produced respectible thrust?  The method as I understood it
had a an inner and an outer fissile cylinder, and the reaction mass was passed
between them, heated, and expelled to the exterior.  Other methods used
gaseous(?) fissile materials, and used a helical mixing method and centrifugal
reaction chambers where the fissioning gas was concentrated on the exterior of
the reaction chamber.  All these methods were of course theoretical.  I
wonder how much research has been done on these and what the results were...

===============================================================================
|  James T. Perkins | uucp: ...!decvax!tektronix!dadla!jamesp | "Roads?! Where
|	\ | /	    | \@_ (snail):	4635 SW Hillside Dr.  | we're going we
|      -- O --	    |			Portland, OR 97221    | don't NEED 
|	/ | \	    | Bell: 		(503)292-4614	      | roads..."
===============================================================================

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!mgnetp!we53!busch!wucs!wuphys!mff
From: wuphys!mff (Swamp Thing)
Subject: Re: Space Whoopee
Date: 22 Jul 85 17:52:29 GMT
Reply-To: mff@wuphys.UUCP (Swamp Thing)
Organization: Physics Dept., Washington Univ. in St. Louis

In article <1337@mnetor.UUCP> fred@mnetor.UUCP (Fred Williams) writes:
>In article <2641@mordor.UUCP> @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC.ARPA:mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley writes:
>>
>>	Quite aside from the sniggering in this matter, there's a serious
>>question here.  Can humans conceive and reproduce in free fall?
>>
>	Come now! Do you really have any doubts???
>	Of coarse not! We know what's going on in your mind.
>	You want confirmation of Newton's third law!!!
>
>Cheers,		Fred Williams

I know it sounds silly, but, all seriousness aside, did you ever hear of
rubber-bands?  A couple of these, strategically located, could do wonders.


						Mark F. Flynn
						Department of Physics
						Washington University
						St. Louis, MO  63130
						ihnp4!wuphys!mff

"There is no dark side of the moon, really.
 Matter of fact, it's all dark."

				P. Floyd

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ittatc!dcdwest!sdcsvax!bmcg!stanley
From: bmcg!stanley (Stanley S. Acton)
Subject: Re: VIP Shuttle Passes
Date: 23 Jul 85 20:52:24 GMT
Organization: Burroughs Corp. ASG, San Diego, CA.

> 
> >	The sight is about 1.5 miles from the shuttle launch pad and you get 
> >	GREAT viewing!!
> 
> 2.	The site for the pass mentioned is about 5 miles due south of the
> 	launch pad;  I think even the blockhouse (Is that what it is called
> 	these days?) is 3 miles away!

The closest you can get to a shuttle launch is about 3 miles.  That is
where the building with all the big dark windows next to the VAB is.
If you are so lucky as to be there, i.e. family of crew, employee or
someone very important, you get to stand on the roof of this place
with a great view.  The press section is about 500 yards from there and
also has a great view, just about 4 stories lower.  Then there
is the Offical Guest area, I think this is the area of which a previous 
article spoke.  It is about 4.5 miles away, and the ascent of the 
shuttle is somewhat blocked by the huge steam cloud produced by the 
firing of the mains for 6 seconds before launch.  

There is also a large viewing area about 5-6 miles away that is open to
the general public for all launches.  This may not be true for DoD launches.  
This area is really not all that bad, and they have all sorts of loud 
speakers and port-a-toilets to handle any size crowd that might show up.

If I were you, I would make it a point to see one of these lift-offs
from where ever.  It is really amazing.
-- 
..!sdcsvax!bmcg!stanley

Stanley S. Acton
Burroughs Corporation
Advanced Systems Group
(619) 485-4494

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jul 1985 03:01:53 EDT
From: DOLANTP@USC-ISI.ARPA
Subject: George Orwell quote
To:   SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS@MIT-MC.ARPA

Knowing what a well-read group this is, can anyone refer me to the origin of
the Orwell quote,

	"He who controls the present, controls the past;
	 he who controls the past, controls the future."

If you have a book, edition, and chapter, it would help my thesis a lot.  
Thanks much.
		Tom <DOLANTP@ISIA>
		NAVAL POSTGRADUATE SCHOOL
		MONTEREY, CA

-------

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!prls!amdimage!amdcad!cae780!leadsv!horst
From: leadsv!horst (John Selhorst)
Subject: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 23 Jul 85 17:35:32 GMT
Organization: LMSC-LEADS, Sunnyvale, Ca.
Summary: I think so. What it look like?

In article <1273@utcsri.UUCP>, randy@utcsri.UUCP (Randall S. Becker) writes:
> > that there would be problems because in the absence of a gravity field
> > the heated air would not rise.  Thus CO2 would not be pulled away from
> > the area of burning and O2 would not be pulled in.  Therefore
> > combustion would not be continuous.
> 
> Actually, I would suspect that this would depend on the diffusion rate of
> CO2 in the ambient atmosphere. If CO2 would diffuse at a high enough rate
> then (assume the presence of O2) the candle should continue to burn at an
> ever decreasing rate. 

Wouldn't the rate of decrease stabilize at some equilibrium?  I want to know
what a flame in zero gravity looks like.

John Selhorst

 {(ucbvax!dual!sun) (ihnp4!qubix)}!sunncal!leadsv!horst
 {allegra ihnp4 dual}!fortune!amdcad!cae780!leadsv!horst

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!prls!amdimage!amdcad!cae780!ubvax!scott
From: ubvax!scott (Scott Scheiman)
Subject: Counterrotating Helicopters
Date: 24 Jul 85 03:04:18 GMT
Organization: Ungermann-Bass, Inc., Santa Clara, CA

Driving to lunch today, I say one of the helicopters mentioned a couple
of days ago on the net.  It had two large sets of blades, one fore, one
aft, clearly counterrotating, and intermeshing (one posting said "like
eggbeater blades").  It had no "tail" rotor (or any vertical blades, for
that matter).

It was flying into Moffett Naval Air Station.  Presumably U.S.
manufactured, but I have no idea what kind of helicopter it is.
-- 
"Ribbit!"      Scott Scheiman (mr.scott)            Industrial Networking, Inc.
 \  /\/@\/@\/\  ..decvax!decwrl!sun!megatest!ubvax!scott   3990 Freedom Circle
   _\ \ -  / /_           (408) 496-0969                Santa Clara, CA 95050

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #223
*******************

29-Jul-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #224    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 224

Today's Topics:
			     candle in space
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 85 00:28:14 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: candle in space
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

I believe some combustion experiments have been done, and seem to remember
having seen a film clip. I do not remember whehter it was on Skylab or the
v-comet.

Since there is no gravity, only conduction and radiation are at work.
Combustion products build up in a globe around the flame until it is snuffed
out, but the heat is retained much longer than in gravity with the attendant
high speed convection flows, so moving the object will cause it to
reignite.

I think if you want it to burn with a nice steady light, you'll have to
supply some convective transport, possibly by using a muffin fan or one of
those new piezoelectric fans.


PS: A word to Eugene Miya about communications restrictions: you should give
your employers a copy of an old Buffalo Springfield song, one verse of which
has the following lyrics:

	Paranoia strikes deep,
	Into your life it will creep.
	Starts when you're always afraid,
	To step out of line,
	The man come, and take you away.

	Stop, children, what's that sound,
	Everybody look what's goin' down...

				For What It's Worth....
				Dale Amon

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #224
*******************

30-Jul-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #225    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 225

Today's Topics:
			       Re:  Tropics
			  stopped shuttle engine
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jul 85 12:38:07 PDT
From: mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley (Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s))
To: Houser@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA, space@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Re:  Tropics

>
>          A book I was reading recently mentioned  that  over  time  the
>angle  of  the plane of the ecliptic changes.  The consequence is that
>the latitude of the tropics also move.  While this  makes  sense,  the
>book  also  stated that there is no formula which describes the motion
>over  time.  Is  this  really  true?  The  context  was  that  certain
>archeological  sites  are  solstice  oriented  and could be accurately
>dated if it was known in what year a Tropic was at  X  latitude.  Just
>curious.
>
>                                        jim@tycho
>


	Wrongo.  The phenomenon you're referring to is called the
"precession of the equinox" and the values have been calculated *very*
precisely.  Roger Bacon first pointed out the phenomenon is the 13th
Century, and showed that if the Julian calendar were not changed, then
sometime in the 30th Century Easter would occur in midsummer (the rate of
precession is about .75 days/century).  The solution he proposed was the one
adopted in the Gregorian calendar, in which Leap Years are not held in
century years and are held every 400th year: so there was no leap year in
1900, there will be one in 2000, but there won't be one in any of 2100,
2200, 2300.

	Incidentally, the world shifted to the Gregorian calendar at varying
times.  The Roman Catholic world did it first, in the 16th Century -- but
that was after the Schism, and so England didn't follow suit.  For 200 years
England's calendar trailed the European by first 9, then 10, then 11 days.
England finally converted in the mid-18th Century, to riots (11 days were
dropped from the calendar at the stroke of a pen).  Russia converted after
the Bolshevik revolution; this is why the "October revolution" was really
held, by Western calendars, in November.

						Rick.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jul 85 16:07:55 pdt
From: king@Kestrel (Dick King)
To: space@mc
Subject: stopped shuttle engine

How much lower an orbit did they have to settle for than what they
wanted?

I don't understand why the orbit would be lowered much, because they
(presumably) had as much fuel as they ever had.  When an engine dies,
can they extend the burn to make up the required Delta-V, or is there a
limit as to how long the engines that are working are allowed to be
operated?


-dick

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #225
*******************

31-Jul-85  0352	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #226    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 226

Today's Topics:
		       Precession of the equinoxes
			      wobbling earth
			 Engine out = lower orbit
			     space telescope
		       Space shuttle abort to orbit
		    Shuttle abort procedures question
	     Re: SPACE Digest V5 #225, stopped shuttle engine
				 calendar
			      Re:  calendar
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 85 10:10 PDT
From: FRIEDRITR%VAXJ.GATNET.MFENET@LLL-MFE.ARPA
Subject: Precession of the equinoxes
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA



I probably won't be the first or only one to point this out, but the precession
of the equinoxes has NOTHING to do with the fact that only one century year out
of four is a leap year.  The reason the Gregorian calendar adopted this
artifice is strictly due to the fact that the year is really 365.2422 days long,
and not 365.25 as would be required if every fourth year were a leap year,
including the century years.

However, the respondent was right in saying that the precession of the
equinoxes is probably the phenomenon the original questioner is referring to.
I don't know how precisely this is calculated, or even how precisely it CAN
be calculated, due to the complicating factors of solar and lunar gravity,
as well as that of the planets, and the fact that the interior of the Earth
is not a rigid solid.  The precession of the equinoxes is the same precession
seen in any other gyroscope, except for the above factors.

Terry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 85 10:34:39 pdt
From: king@Kestrel (Dick King)
To: space@mc
Subject: wobbling earth

    >
    >          A book I was reading recently mentioned  that  over  time  the
    >angle  of  the plane of the ecliptic changes.  The consequence is that
    >the latitude of the tropics also move.  While this  makes  sense,  the
    >book  also  stated that there is no formula which describes the motion
    >over  time.  Is  this  really  true?  The  context  was  that  certain
    >archeological  sites  are  solstice  oriented  and could be accurately
    >dated if it was known in what year a Tropic was at  X  latitude.  Just
    >curious.
    >
    >                                        jim@tycho
    >


	    Wrongo.  The phenomenon you're referring to is called the
    "precession of the equinox" and the values have been calculated *very*
    precisely.  Roger Bacon first pointed out the phenomenon is the 13th
    Century, and showed that if the Julian calendar were not changed, then
    sometime in the 30th Century Easter would occur in midsummer (the rate of
    precession is about .75 days/century).  The solution he proposed was the one
    adopted in the Gregorian calendar, in which Leap Years are not held in
    century years and are held every 400th year: so there was no leap year in
    1900, there will be one in 2000, but there won't be one in any of 2100,
    2200, 2300.

wrongo.  Precession of the equinoxes does indeed occur, having the
effect you describe, but it would not affect archaeology.  PofE
describes changes in the portion of Earth's orbit that corresponds to
given seasons, so different constellations would be visible in the
winter night's sky in different millenia.

The phenomenon referred to in the original submission also occurs; at
times the axial tilt has varied from 20.6 degrees to 22.  (If my
figures are wrong, forgive me.)  This would render obselete things like
Stonehedge that can detect the first day of winter.  If the axial tilt
is low at the moment, the monument's first day of winter point may not
be approached.  If it is high, it may be exceeded (and hit twice,
shortly before and after the actual solstice).


-dick

------------------------------

Date:           Tue, 30 Jul 85 11:30:38 PDT
From:           "Niket K. Patwardhan" <lcc.niket@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU>
To:             Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Subject:        Engine out = lower orbit

Think of it this way. A rocket sitting on the pad without enough thrust to lift
off can burn all its fuel without moving at all. If there was no gravity and
the stalled engine didn't lose any mass at a slower speed, what you said would
be true. But of course the shuttle is working against gravity when it is
taking off, and the longer it takes the less far it will go on the same fuel.

------------------------------

From: <crash!usiiden!markf@Nosc>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 85 13:04:38 PDT
To: crash!noscvax!space@mit-mc
Subject: space telescope

The space telescope planned for launch in the near future
will have two tubes on it, a red and a blue tube, according
to one of the technicians on the project. This sounds 
like it may have something to do with red shift and blue
shift. Can anyone confirm this?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 85 13:38:44 pdt
From: Ross Finlayson <rsf@Pescadero>
Subject: Space shuttle abort to orbit
To: space@mit-mc

Dick King asks why the shuttle couldn't attain its required orbital speed
simply by burning its two remaining engines longer than usual.  My guess is 
that since the fuel that would have been burned up by the third engine is
burned up more slowly than usual (now that only two engines are working), the 
shuttle doesn't lose weight (due to fuel burning) at the same rate as 
before.  That is, some of the fuel gets to be lifted a little higher than 
before, leading to a a decrease in the shuttle's final kinetic energy.  I'm 
sure this isn't the whole story; I'll leave it to the experts to fill in more 
details.

Also, in this morning's paper, I read that apparently a second engine was
beginning to show signs of overheating (after the first had already been shut
down).  This can't have been as serious, however, because apparently the crew 
manually shut down the backup sensor for this engine, to prevent the computers
from shutting down this engine as well.

Does anyone know what plans exist for aborting a shuttle launch from 
Vandenberg?  Since the shuttles will be launched in a north-to-south 
direction for polar orbits (correct?), where could they land following an
early abort?  The only places that come to mind are the Galapagos Islands, and 
Easter Island, but I don't know if there are sufficiently long runways there.
I'm sure NASA would rather not have the shuttle land in Antarctica!

	Ross.

------------------------------

Date: 30 Jul 85 13:22 EDT
From: (Richard Kenner) <KENNER@NYU-CMCL1.ARPA>
To: <SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject: Shuttle abort procedures question

I have a question about the programming of the Shuttle abort procedures.
While listening to yesterday's ATO, I heard a "1 engine TAL" call a while
after the ATO started.  I assume that this meant that had a second engine
failed before that point, the Shuttle would be in what is politely called
a "contingency abort" situation where crew servival is problematical.

My question is this:  In this case, the engine was shut down due to a
perceived (the last I heard they didn't know whether it was real or not)
increase in temperature of the high-pressume fuel pump in Engine #1 past
the red-line point.  However, suppose a second engine developed the same
condition prior to the "one engine TAL" call.  Shutting down this second engine
would now be questionable.  Shutting it down would almost certainly result
in crew loss while leaving it running would merely incur a probability of
crew loss.  The proper thing to do in this circumstance would probably be
to leave the engine running until 1-engine TAL capability was reached.
However, it is my understanding that the precise determination of
abort capability is not done on-board but is done in MCC.

Does anyone know how this case is handled?  How about if two engines
simultaneously had red-line problems (suppose they were in different
areas) in a state where there was a 2-engine survivable abort but no
1-engine survivable abort?  Does the software assess which perceived
red-line is more dangerous and shut down the appropriate engine?  Or
are both engines lost (and hence the crew)?

-------

------------------------------

Sender: "Mark A. Randall.DlosLV"@Xerox.ARPA
Date: 30 Jul 85 11:36:22 PDT (Tuesday)
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #225, stopped shuttle engine
From: Randall.DlosLV@Xerox.ARPA
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.Arpa
cc: Randall.DlosLV@Xerox.ARPA


I understand from this mornings change of brieffing that the current
orbit is 169 by 171 miles, almost circular, when it should have been
eliptical and 208 miles it the high point.

-mark

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 85 21:53:49 EDT
From: Dick Koolish <koolish@bbncd2.arpa>
Subject: calendar
To: space@mit-mc.arpa

Precession of the equinox has nothing to do with the Gregorian calendar.
The Julian calendar was shifting with respect to the seasons because the
year is not an integral number of days and the Julian calendar had it
wrong.  The Julian calendar had leap years every four years, which
gave it 365.25 days per year.  This is too many, since the year is
365.2422 days long.  The Gregorian reform changed the calendar so
that leap years were every four years except that century years were
only leap years if they were divisible by 400.  This gives a calendar
year of 365.2425 days.  By the time the Gregorian calendar was adopted,
in 1582, the calendar was 10 days fast.  When put into effect on
October 4th, the next day became October 15th.  The Gregorian calendar
was adopted in England and the colonies in 1752 and not until 1918 by
Russia.  The Gregorian calendar still gives a year that is too long
by 26 seconds so it will be one day off in 3200 years.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jul 85 19:17:49 PDT
From: mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley (Rick McGeer)
To: koolish@bbncd2.ARPA, space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re:  calendar

	Yea.  We have a leap second periodically to even out the flaws in
the Gregorian calendar.  Just had one this year, in fact.

					Rick.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #226
*******************

01-Aug-85  0400	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #227    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 227

Today's Topics:
			 science news conference
			       Leap seconds
			  Aborts from Vandenberg
		       Shutle abort from Vandenberg
			obliquity of the ecliptic
		       Challenger to Launch Monday
	  Re: Answer to: What do you call the "blockhouse" now?
			    Re: space delivery
		     Re: Angular Momentum Cancelation
			    Re: space delivery
			 Re: George Orwell quote
		       Re: Would a candle burn ...
			    Re: space delivery
		       Re: Would a candle burn ...
		      A candle burning in Zero-G....
		       Re: Would a candle burn ...
		       Re: Would a candle burn ...
			  Re: Orphaned Response
			  Countdown Set to Begin
		       Re: Would a candle burn ...
			    Re: Birth in Space
		       Re: Would a candle burn ...
			     Countdown Starts
			Re: Many Shuttle Missions
			  Movement of the poles
		     Re: Space shuttle abort to orbit
			       Re: calendar
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <crash!usiiden!markf@Nosc>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 85 23:29:19 PDT
To: crash!noscvax!space@mit-mc
Subject: science news conference

Science News Conference - Spacelab 2 Tuesday 7/30 

Ron Lester: I'll start by giving you a brief status of the Spacelab
systems. I'll talk briefly about each of the experiments.  I'll also
discuss the mission planning that we're doing for perhaps some additional
time on the PDP (Note:  Ejectable Plasma Diagnostic Package uses
instruments on a subsatellite to study plasma processes).  The Spacelab
systems were activated pretty much on time.  The backup computer, which is
now serving as the experiment computer came up on schedule and its been
performing flawlessly.  We've had two drop offs of the DDU's (note: don't
know what this is), we had a similar situation on Spacelab 3.  The
instrument pointing system, we've got it up, we have had difficulty with
the optical sensing package - turning the package onto the Sun in the
fineguided mode (note: The SOUP or Solar Magnetic And Velocity Field
Measurement System will observe the strength, structure, and evolution of
magnetic fields in the solar atmosphere and determine the relationship
between these magnetic elements and other solar features). I'll tell you
later about some of the trouble shooting activities associated with that.
We are convinced by the fact that the Coronal Helium Experiments (Note:
CHASE, the coronal helium abundance spacelab exp will accurately determine
the helium abundance of the Sun) was able to, operating within the control
loop of the IPS (instrument pointing system) was in fact able to acquire
the Sun, and in fact, he's got data, and as a matter of fact, tommorrow
morning will get some of the data that they have already obtained. With
respect to the physics experiment, the optical polarimeter (Note:SOUP), we
do have a problem with the pilot system. The guys are still trouble
shooting it, both here (Houston) and back at Lockheed.  But currently, it
is not operating, it did come up and operate for some 15 minutes, but it
dropped off line and to date we have not been successful with trouble
shooting approaches.  But the guys are working on it, the IPS is not due
back up until one day 14.  The Coronal Helium Exp. has been taking data,
even from the degraded mode of the instruments on the system. The High
Resolution Telescope (Note:  HRTS Solar Ultraviolet High Resolution
Telescope studies features in the Sun's outer layers; the chromosphere,
the corona, and the transition zone between them) has yet to start taking
data, it has completed its checkout.  He did have a heater fail on it, he
deactivated the system, we really don't anticipate that causing a problem
once we get operational.  He will be up tommorrow when we reactivate the
IPS and we fully expect that he will operate.  I'll discuss later some of
the consequences of not being able to get the optical sensing package up
and operating.  We feel we can still obtain the science on the solar
experiment by the use of the HRTS experiment.  The ITS (?) is stowed now,
so obviously has not been taking data now.  PDP (Plasma Diagnosics
Package) has been activated, it continually takes data .. we did fire the
electron generator (Note: the PDP can be placed near vehicle surfaces to
measure changes in the Shuttle's electrical charge as a generator emits an
electron beam) and the plasma diagnostic people did pick up the results.
On the Plasma Depletion Experiment (Note: this investigation uses the
Shuttle as an active experimental probe to create artificial "holes" in
the ionosphere.  Ground observatories use radio and optics to study the
plasma characteristics and conduct radio astronomical studies through
them) we've had two successful burns, oneover Milstone, the other over
Areceibo in Puerto Rico.  We originally had some seven burns or so
scheduled.  Based on some very recent data we've got, it looks like we may
be able to re-instate some of those burns.  The cosmic ray experiment
(Note: CRNE Elemental Compositon and Energy Spectra of Cosmic Ray Nuclei
Between 50 GeV/ nucleon and several TeV/ nucleon - to study the
composition of high energy cosmic rays by using a large instrument exposed
to space for a considerable period of time) started taking data almost
immediately and has continued to take data.  It operates in somewhat of a
passive mode.  The X-Ray telescope (Note: XRT Hard X-Ray Imaging of
Clusters of Galaxies and Other Extended X-Ray Sources - the goal of this
investigation is to image and examine the X-ray emissions from clusters of
galaxies in order to study the mechanisms that cause high temperature
emissions and to determine the weight of galactic clusters) is up and
running.  And I guess he's quite happy, for the next 16 hrs. he can
operate without the place and avoidance (?) being invoked which is
protection between the X-Ray telescope and Instrument Pointing System when
they operate simultaneously. But since IPS is in the gimbal lock, he is
unrestricted and will be taking data for the next 16 hrs.  The X-Ray
telescope checked their drive systems.  The Helium experiment (Note:
Properties of Superfluid Helium in Zero Gravity - to determine the fluid
and thermal properties of superfluid helium, to advance scientific
understanding of superfluid and normal liquid helium, and to demonstrate
the use ofsuperfluid helium as a cryogen in zero gravity).  That's the
experiment that just prior to launch on July 4th, we had to make a
decision to de-activate a pump, it started leaking oil in the cargo bay,
we would have probably lost the experiment had we launched on the 12th.
So that's a plus for the delay.  The Plant Growth Unit (PGU - to
determinethe effect of microgravity upon the production of lignin in
higher plants) which is in the middeck, it pretty much does its own thing.
The crew periodically monitors temperatures and some other measurements.
The vitamin B experiment and crystal growth experiment are on-going.
That's pretty much the status of the experiments.  With the exception of
the polarimeter experiment, the team is elated with how things are going.

We have also been told that we have some 1400lbs of propellant (more than
we thought) and this makes asignificant differences as to what we can do.
Various options are being looked at, at this time.  Most like use is for
one of the three originally planned fly arounds withthe PDP.  This will
make two fly arounds.  Raising the altitude is unlikely since the amount
of surplus fuel would be unlikely to contribute to the science being
obtained.  The experiment most effected by the altitude is the
coronalhelium experiment.  But he has obtained some very good data at the
altitude he's working at.  Obviously, we're looking at a full duration
mission.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jul 85 07:41 PDT
From: FRIEDRITR%VAXJ.GATNET.MFENET@LLL-MFE.ARPA
Subject: Leap seconds
To: space@mit-mc.arpa

As was pointed out by someone else, the Gregorian calendar is still off by
26 seconds per year, even with the centuries-are-only-leap-years-sometimes
adjustment.  Leap seconds are not to "even out the flaws in the Gregorian
calendar", especially since we have one only every few years (does anyone
know how often, on the average?).  Leap seconds keep our precise 24-hour-
per-day clocks synchronized with the actual rotational period of the Earth,
which exhibits slight variations.

Terry

------------------------------

Date: Wed 31 Jul 85 14:37:05-EDT
From: Thomas.Finholt@CMU-CS-C.ARPA
Subject: Aborts from Vandenberg
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

NASA and the US just concluded an agreement with the Chilean government
to upgrade the airstrip on Easter Island for use as an emergency
landing site for west coast shuttle launches.

For those who read Analog, this is an interesting case of life
following fiction. There was a nonovel serialized in that magazine
called "Shuttle Down" depiciting the various bureaucratic and
diplomatic hassles involved with retrieving a US spacecraft from
foreign territory (in this case Easter Island). Among the more 
interesting issues raised in that story was the fact that the
current airstrip on Easter Island is unable to accomdate
the modified 747 used to transport the shuttle fleet (to say
nothing of the fact that the heavy lifting facilities required
for such an operation would all have to be flown in from the US).

Among the issues to consider with the proposed upgrading of the
Easter Island facilities is the impact on the local  culture and
ecology (remember Easter Island  is the site of the mysterious
statues). I wonder if anyone asked the residents if they wanted
to be catapulted into the space age (particularly given the 
repressive nature of the current Chilean regime)?

-------

------------------------------

Date:     Wed, 31 Jul 85 13:06 CDT
From:     Allen_Sherzer <sherzer%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To:       SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject:  Shutle abort from Vandenberg

>Does anyone know what plans exist for aborting a shuttle launch
>from Vandenberg?

I read somewhere that there were plans to build a runway on an island
off of Chile for shuttle aborts. The plans, however, where from NASA
and not the DOD. It is posible that the press got it wrong and that
it is DOD. It looked like as good a place as any to abort a north 
south orbit.
          Allen Sherzer TI-EG

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jul 85 16:15:41 EDT
From: Dick Koolish <koolish@bbncd2.arpa>
Subject: obliquity of the ecliptic
To: space@mit-mc.arpa

To get back to the original question that brought on all the
discussion about the Gregorian calendar:

The earths axis of rotation is subject to precession and change
of tilt.  Both these effects would change the way that ancient
structures line up with astronomical objects.  The difference is
that precession changes the positions of stars while tilt changes
the position of the sun. 

Precession causes the pole to describe a circle in the sky
instead of remaining fixed at one place.  This causes the
positions of stars and constellations to change.  Polaris is the
pole star now because the axis is pointing near Polaris.  13,000
years ago, it was on the other side of the precessional circle.
In the 2,000 years or so since the constellations were named,
precession has moved around the zodiac by a full constellation so
that none of the astrological signs correspond to where the sun
really is in the sky.

The tilt or obliquity of the ecliptic also changes.  This is a
long period change of 41,000 years that takes the tilt from 24.5
degrees to 22.1 degrees at about .47 seconds per year.  This
change of tilt affects solar phenomena like sunrise, sunset, etc.
The formula for the tilt is: 

    23 degrees 26 minutes 21.448 seconds
      - 46.8150*T seconds
      - .00059*T*T seconds
      + .001813*T*T*T seconds

    where T is the number of Julian centuries from 2000

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!cbosgd!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Challenger to Launch Monday
Date: 23 Jul 85 11:34:17 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

NASA yesterday rescheduled the aborted launch of the
Challenger for 1523 EDT, 29 July.  Landing will be
seven days later at EAFB.  The valve actuator and control
system from the Number 2 Engine, suspected to the be
cause of the abort, were replaced, and all engines
tested thoroughly.  Although a computer controlling
an array of experiments in the cargo bay failed, NASA
said a backup could do the job -- the main computer is
inaccessible on the launch pad.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Answer to: What do you call the "blockhouse" now?
Date: 25 Jul 85 18:48:22 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

> Another reason for the LCC is economy.  Before, you would have one
> blockhouse per pad.  With the Apollo program, it was planned to
> have two pads, with possible expansion to more...

Actually, it was originally planned to have three and a possible fourth.
If you look at a map or aerial photo of KSC, you will note that there is
a seemingly-purposeless bend in the crawlerway to pad 39B.  That's where
the crawlerway to 39C was supposed to branch off.

Another bit of pre-budget-cut trivia for those interested:  the VAB is
designed to permit adding two more high bays on the end.  That's why
the paved area on the north (?) side is so big,	because a goodly chunk
of it would disappear under the two extra bays.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!rochester!rocksvax!sunybcs!kitty!baylor!peter
From: baylor!peter (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: space delivery
Date: 26 Jul 85 11:04:42 GMT
Organization: Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria

Wouldn't the calcium deficiency noted in free fall SERIOUSLY harm the fetus (who
can't use a treadmill, or would the mother's exercising serve?)?
-- 
	Peter da Silva (the mad Australian)
		UUCP: ...!shell!neuro1!{hyd-ptd,baylor,datafac}!peter
		MCI: PDASILVA; CIS: 70216,1076

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!decwrl!sun!idi!pesnta!hplabsb!bl
From: hplabsb!bl
Subject: Re: Angular Momentum Cancelation
Date: 24 Jul 85 23:58:38 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA

> 
> There is a Soviet helicopter. Its NATO designation is HORMONE (don't ask
> me why) which has two counter-rotating sets of blades and no tail rotor.
> 
> I do not know of any american helicopters that use this principle.
> 
> Apostolos Dollas
>         USENET:	...!{pur-ee,ihnp4}!uiucdcs!dollas 
>         ARPA:	dollas@uiuc.arpa

There was an article in "Sport Aviation" a couple of month ago about
a fellow (American) who built his own helicopter with counter-rotating
blades (and, of course, no tail rotor).  The rotors are on seperate
shafts that formed a narrow V.  The rotors (two blades each) inter-mesh as
they rotate.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!utastro!ethan
From: utastro!ethan (Ethan Vishniac)
Subject: Re: space delivery
Date: 26 Jul 85 19:05:50 GMT
Organization: U. Texas, Astronomy, Austin, TX

> Wouldn't the calcium deficiency noted in free fall SERIOUSLY harm the fetus (who
> can't use a treadmill, or would the mother's exercising serve?)?
> -- 
> 	Peter da Silva (the mad Australian)
Good question.  I'd guess not, since the fetus is sitting in a neutral
buoyancy environment at first, and subsequently (the last few months)
doesn't have much leg room.  The mechanisms that cause the fetus to
absorb calcium in large quantities must not depend on gravity.
excerc
-- 

"Don't argue with a fool.      Ethan Vishniac
 Borrow his money."            {charm,ut-sally,ut-ngp,noao}!utastro!ethan
                               Department of Astronomy
                               University of Texas

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!umcp-cs!gymble!fred
From: gymble!fred (Fred Blonder)
Subject: Re: George Orwell quote
Date: 26 Jul 85 21:48:48 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Laboratory for Parallel Computation, C.P., MD


	Subject: George Orwell quote
	Date: Fri, 26-Jul-85 03:04:21 EDT
	From: DOLANTP@USC-ISI.ARPA

	Knowing what a well-read group this is, can anyone refer me to
	the origin of the Orwell quote,

		"He who controls the present, controls the past;
		he who controls the past, controls the future."

It's from the book, ``1984''. I'm not sure that it actually occurs
within the story, but may appear on one of the pages preceding the text.
-- 
All characters mentioned herein are fictitious. Any similarity to
actual characters, ASCII or EBCDIC is purely coincidental.

						Fred Blonder (301) 454-7690
						Fred@Maryland.{ARPA,CSNet}
						harpo!seismo!umcp-cs!fred

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!fluke!inc
From: fluke!inc (Ensign Benson, Time Cadet)
Subject: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 25 Jul 85 23:55:27 GMT
Organization: The Digital Circus, Sector R

*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***

*** NO, WHY DON'T YOU REPLACE YOUR STUPID LINE WITH MY MESSAGE? ***

The questoon was: Would a candle burn...
> ... in space?
> 
> This question came up the other day in discussion.  We seemed to think
> that there would be problems because in the absence of a gravity field
> the heated air would not rise.  Thus CO2 would not be pulled away from
> the area of burning and O2 would not be pulled in.  Therefore
> combustion would not be continuous.

I think that if NASA is really thinking about experimenting with
extratereestrial sexual relations, they may find that the candle burns
at both ends!

Good question, though - please post the most sincere-sounding answer.


-- 
			       Ensign Benson
			       -Time  Cadet-
 
    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-The Digital Circus, Sector R-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!teddy!rdp
From: teddy!rdp
Subject: Re: space delivery
Date: 26 Jul 85 20:35:27 GMT
Reply-To: rdp@teddy.UUCP (Richard D. Pierce)
Organization: GenRad, Inc., Concord, Mass.

In article <319@baylor.UUCP> peter@baylor.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes:
>Wouldn't the calcium deficiency noted in free fall SERIOUSLY harm the fetus (who
>can't use a treadmill, or would the mother's exercising serve?)?
>-- 
>	Peter da Silva (the mad Australian)
>		UUCP: ...!shell!neuro1!{hyd-ptd,baylor,datafac}!peter
>		MCI: PDASILVA; CIS: 70216,1076

Having just gone throught two pregnancies with my wife, rest assured that
no fetus that is even slight healthy has a problem with exercise. One of
our kids was so active the my wife had a dislocated rib as a result! No,
I don't think excersize for the fetus or the neo-natal is a problem. Now,
the mess at delivery is another issue...

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!spar!turtlevax!weitek!mahar
From: weitek!mahar (mahar)
Subject: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 26 Jul 85 17:03:33 GMT
Organization: Weitek Corp. Sunnyvale Ca.
Summary: somthing I read once.

In one of G Harry Stine's books, I don't remember the title, he discusses
at length what happens to a candle in zero G. Candles have been studied
on airplanes in ballistic flight. A burning candle seems to go out as
soon as zero G is reached. The candle starts burning again when gravity
returns. Combustion is still taking place in zero G. The lack of heat
convection prevents an open flame.

I read this a few years ago, so more work may have been done since
then.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-speedy!maxwell
From: maxwell@speedy.DEC
Subject: A candle burning in Zero-G....
Date: 27 Jul 85 16:49:58 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network

As I recall, there have actually been tests to see what happens to a burning
candle in Zero-G.

Although I  don't remember the source, I do recall reading about a test in a
plane  'falling'  through a parabola for 30 seconds or so, just before which
the  pilot  had lit a candle. During the beginning of the Zero-G period, the
candle's  flame  rounded  into  a sphere, which got smaller and smaller. The
flame  soon went 'out'. When gravity 'returned' however, the flame returned,
for all appearances reversing its disappearing act.

The offered  explanation  of  the  phenomenon (as I recall, don't hold me to
this)  was  that  the absence of gravity prevented the differentation of the
gasses  involved (both fuel and by products); gravity allows hotter, lighter
gasses  to  leave  (CO2,  H2O,  etc.),  and  cooler,  denser gasses to enter
(vaporized fuel). Unable to rid itself of the useless byproducts, and unable
to  get enough fuel, the flame dies. However, during the buring, a number of
free radicals (transition products) are produced that, when gravity returns,
can 'continue' combustion.

-+- Sid Maxwell

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!mtuxo!drutx!drux3!pcf
From: drux3!pcf (FryPC)
Subject: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 26 Jul 85 17:56:44 GMT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Denver

> ... in space?
> 
> This question came up the other day in discussion.  We seemed to think
> that there would be problems because in the absence of a gravity field
> the heated air would not rise.  Thus CO2 would not be pulled away from
> the area of burning and O2 would not be pulled in.  Therefore
> combustion would not be continuous.

I do not think that the O2/CO2 supply is the problem. In a 'theoretical'
still air, there is no O2, the candle can not burn, but in any 'real' (sic)
environment, there should be enough air movement to keep combustion going.

I think there are other problems:-

My understanding of how a candle works, once it is burning in normal G:

	The heat from the flame melts the solid wax.
	Capilliary action draws the molten wax up the wick.
	Increased heat vaporises the molten wax.
	The vapor burns using oxygen and producing CO2 H2O etc.

Only the vapour is flammable, the non-flammable liqud wax forming a pool
around the base of the wick stops the flame from going in that direction
and melting the wax faster than it can be burned.

In zero G:

	The heat from the flame melts the solid wax.
	Capilliary action draws some of the molten wax up the wick the
		rest floats off.
	Increased heat vaporises the molten wax.
	The vapor burns using oxygen and producing CO2 H2O etc.

The flame would burn in all directions, the pool of melted wax would
not remain to stop the flame from travelling along the wick so the
candle would soon turn itslef into floting blobs of hot/liquid wax.

My theory:
	The candle burns, but not for long and is very messy.

Experiment:
	Take two candles, light them both.
	Invert one of the candles.
	Observe how they burn.
	Average the results.

Peter Fry
drux3!pcf

P.S. All this is, of course, wild speculation from a position of inteligent
     ignorance.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!prls!amdimage!amdcad!amd!pesnta!hplabs!oliveb!olivee!gnome
From: olivee!gnome (Gary Traveis)
Subject: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 24 Jul 85 20:57:56 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino, Ca

> > ... in space?
> > 
> > This question came up the other day in discussion.  We seemed to think
> > that there would be problems because in the absence of a gravity field
> > the heated air would not rise.  Thus CO2 would not be pulled away from
> > the area of burning and O2 would not be pulled in.  Therefore
> > combustion would not be continuous.
> 
> Actually, I would suspect that this would depend on the diffusion rate of
> CO2 in the ambient atmosphere. If CO2 would diffuse at a high enough rate
> then (assume the presence of O2) the candle should continue to burn at an
> ever decreasing rate. 
>

I think that the first statement is correct -  but the candle would still
burn through "flicker oscillation".  As the globular flame expands it would
choke it's own combustion.  Then, on partial flame-out, denser, colder air
would rush in around the wick.

Unless some strange around-the-wax-base convection currents can be
set up when it starts, it would probably oscillate.

Gary
(hplabs,allegra,ihnp4)oliveb!olivee!gnome

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!faust!schrei
From: faust!schrei
Subject: Re: Orphaned Response
Date: 27 Jul 85 20:08:00 GMT


 
There has been at least one helicopter with two primary rotors and no
tail rotor.  Whether the two primaries (one fore, one aft) were counter-
rotating or not, I don't know.  I also don't know its official designa-
tion, but it looked like a flying banana with a rotor at each end, and
no tail rotor.  It was in service in 1958, and quite possibly much
earlier.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Countdown Set to Begin
Date: 27 Jul 85 00:24:08 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

Despite problems with ground hydraulic support, the countdown
for the Challenger's Monday launch (set for 1523 EDT) is to
begin on time Saturday at 0900 EDT.  Pumps that remove air from
hydraulic fluid failed Thursday and set launch crews two shifts
behind schedule, but NASA believes they can catch up in time
for the launch to go off as planned.  If not, a hold will be
called, and the launch delayed until Tuesday.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!gml
From: ssc-vax!gml (Gregory M Lobdell)
Subject: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 25 Jul 85 16:10:41 GMT
Organization: Boeing Aerospace Co., Seattle, WA

> > Actually, I would suspect that this would depend on the diffusion rate of
> > CO2 in the ambient atmosphere. If CO2 would diffuse at a high enough rate
> > then (assume the presence of O2) the candle should continue to burn at an
> > ever decreasing rate. 
> 
> Wouldn't the rate of decrease stabilize at some equilibrium?  I want to know
> what a flame in zero gravity looks like.

The problem might be that the rate would stabilize below the minimum
needed to support combustion, i.e. not enough heat generated to melt
wax, drive CO2 diffusion, etc. The flame would probably be round, or
slightly flattened on the side near the fuel source.

The current space program uses a 100% O2 atmosphere.  If you lit a
flame in such an atmosphere, would all the dust and other random
particles ignite in the presence of the flame?

>From: fluke!allegra!convex!hosking (Doug Hosking)
>
>I don't know, but I'd hate to think of what the melted wax would do if
>it did burn!

But it seems to me that the surface tension of the wax would be
great enough to keep it from floating away, and if it did float away
it would probably skin over before it caused any problems.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!cbosgd!ukma!sean
From: ukma!sean (Sean Casey)
Subject: Re: Birth in Space
Date: 27 Jul 85 03:48:07 GMT
Reply-To: sean@ukma.UUCP (Sean Casey)
Organization: The White Tower @ The Univ. of KY



The birth may or may not be easier, but the pregnancy would be much more
enjoyable!


-- 

-  Sean Casey				UUCP:	sean@ukma.UUCP   or
-  Department of Mathematics			{cbosgd,anlams,hasmed}!ukma!sean
-  University of Kentucky		ARPA:	ukma!sean@ANL-MCS.ARPA	

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!rochester!rocksanne!rocksvax!sunybcs!kitty!peter
From: kitty!peter (Peter DaSilva)
Subject: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 29 Jul 85 15:03:19 GMT
Organization: Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, NY

I think the experiment's been done. For an amusing application see "Stardance",
by Spider Robinson.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Countdown Starts
Date: 28 Jul 85 03:59:37 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The countdown for the Challenger mission began at 0900
EDT today, and NASA reported that the ship's hydraulic
fluid had been purged of air buildup several hours ahead
of scheduled, leaving closing the aft compartment the
only job left to get back on track.  Liftoff is scheduled
for 1523 EDT Monday.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!gatech!ulysses!smb
From: ulysses!smb (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: Re: Many Shuttle Missions
Date: 29 Jul 85 17:27:18 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill

> Also has NASA ever handle the launch of more than one
> manned vehicle?  I'm sure they didn't during the
> Mercury project.  I think they didn't during Gemini.
> They only mission like this I can recall is the joint
> American-Russian one and the Russians must have handle
> the launch of their Soyuz.
> 
>                                Jimmy Chen
>                             (ihnp4!wuphys!jmc)

Gemeni 6 was supposed to rendezvous with an Atlas-Agena upper stage, to test
docking techniques.  But the Agena failed, so they launched Gemeni 7 first;
Gemeni 6 was launched a bit later and rendezvoused [sic] with Gemeni 7.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!gatech!cbosgd!rbg
From: cbosgd!rbg (Richard Goldschmidt)
Subject: Movement of the poles
Date: 30 Jul 85 02:54:17 GMT
Organization: Columbus Bell Labs, Silver Lining

In article <1250@phoenix.UUCP>, brent@phoenix.UUCP (Brent Callaghan) writes:
> As far as I know - nutation IS predictable.  There is even a clock
> somewhere with extra dials for years, centuries etc.  The slowest
> movement is the nutation dial.
> Interestingly, the earth is not fixed to it's axis of rotation.
> The north & south poles can move tens of yards every year.
> I've seen a map showing the south pole moving erratically
> (drunken walk) within a radius of 100 yards or so.

An article in the NY Times (p. 11, Sunday, 7/28) states that the north
magnetic pole has moved 70 miles since 1973 and that the south pole has
moved 185 miles in the last 30 years.  The article suggested that changes
in solar activity induced changes in the Earth's magnetic field, affecting
the spin rate, and that the resulting change in angular momentum might have
a dramatic effect on global climate.

Rich Goldschmidt     {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax,allegra,seismo} !cbosgd!rbg
		     ARPA:  cbosgd!rbg@seismo or cbosgd!rbg@ucbvax

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jul 85 15:00:11 pdt
From: David Smith <dsmith%hplabs.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To: Space-Enthusiasts@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: Space shuttle abort to orbit
Source-Info:  From (or Sender) name not authenticated.

> Does anyone know what plans exist for aborting a shuttle launch from 
> Vandenberg?  Since the shuttles will be launched in a north-to-south 
> direction for polar orbits (correct?), where could they land following an
> early abort?  The only places that come to mind are the Galapagos Islands, and 
> Easter Island, but I don't know if there are sufficiently long runways there.
> I'm sure NASA would rather not have the shuttle land in Antarctica!

NASA is negotiating to put an emergency landing strip on Easter Island.

		David Smith
		ucbvax!hplabs!dsmith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jul 85 15:09:23 pdt
From: David Smith <dsmith%hplabs.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To: space%mit-mc@csnet-relay.arpa
Subject: Re: calendar
Source-Info:  From (or Sender) name not authenticated.

> 	Yea.  We have a leap second periodically to even out the flaws in
> the Gregorian calendar.  Just had one this year, in fact.

The leap second is not to compensate for the Gregorian calendar, but for
the fact that the earth's rotation on its axis is slowing down.  The
standard second is defined as 1/86,400 of a day in 1900 (I think averaged
over the days of that year).  The earth is rotating enough slower now to
require leap seconds to keep the astronomical day and atomic clocks in
sync.

I am surprised that the precession of the equinoxes is described as a
change in the ecliptic.  The ecliptic stays (relatively) fixed;  it is the
earth's axis which precesses, carrying the celestial equator with it.

		David Smith
		ucbvax!hplabs!dsmith

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #227
*******************

02-Aug-85  0401	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #228    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 228

Today's Topics:
			Re: Movement of the poles
			  re: Would a candle...
		     Re: Re: Would a candle burn ...
		   Re: Columbia's Tiled Damaged by Rain
		     Re: Re: Would a candle burn ...
			  Many Shuttle Missions
		      Launch Delayed by Gyro Problem
				  Launch
			      Abort to Orbit
			       Corrections
			       51.f freq's
			       Re: Tropics
		     Re: Re: Would a candle burn ...
			 Re: George Orwell quote
		      Second Engine Almost Shut Down
			  Re: Re: space delivery
			  Re: Re: space delivery
			    Re: Abort to Orbit
			      Failed Engine
		   First set of actual shuttle elements
			Sensors Probably to Blame
			  Re: Re: space delivery
			  Re: Re: space delivery
			  Re: Re: space delivery
		     on precession, nutation, etc...
		     Re: space whoopee and whoops...
		       Re: Would a candle burn ...
			   Re: Nuclear Rockets
			    Re: space delivery
			     Challenger's ATO
			  Lower orbit after ATO
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!teddy!rdp
From: teddy!rdp
Subject: Re: Movement of the poles
Date: 30 Jul 85 16:57:29 GMT
Reply-To: rdp@teddy.UUCP (Richard D. Pierce)
Organization: GenRad, Inc., Concord, Mass.

In article <1350@cbosgd.UUCP> rbg@cbosgd.UUCP (Richard Goldschmidt) writes:
>In article <1250@phoenix.UUCP>, brent@phoenix.UUCP (Brent Callaghan) writes:
>> As far as I know - nutation IS predictable.  There is even a clock
>> somewhere with extra dials for years, centuries etc.  The slowest
>> movement is the nutation dial.
>> Interestingly, the earth is not fixed to it's axis of rotation.
>> The north & south poles can move tens of yards every year.
>> I've seen a map showing the south pole moving erratically
>> (drunken walk) within a radius of 100 yards or so.
>
>An article in the NY Times (p. 11, Sunday, 7/28) states that the north
>magnetic pole has moved 70 miles since 1973 and that the south pole has
>moved 185 miles in the last 30 years.  The article suggested that changes
>in solar activity induced changes in the Earth's magnetic field, affecting
>the spin rate, and that the resulting change in angular momentum might have
>a dramatic effect on global climate.
>

Is it not the earth's MAGNETIC poles that wander (requiring compass correction
figures on maps) and not the ROTATIONAL poles that wander?

After all, changes (especially non symmetrical ones like above) in the
earths rotational axis would produce some pretty severe wobbling. 

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-scotty!fisher
From: fisher@scotty.DEC
Subject: re: Would a candle...
Date: 30 Jul 85 17:31:42 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: DEC Engineering Network


> ...the current space program uses a pure O2 atmosphere...

"That turns out not to be the case."  Apollo and Gemini and Mercury used
pure O2, but even on those, it was at reduced pressure in space so that the
partial pressure of O2 was about the same as on Earth.  While sitting on the
pad, it was a different story, the complete telling of which would include
the Apollo I fire.

But in any case, the shuttle uses a more-or-less normal earth-type atmosphere,
except in the space suits (that's why they need to pre-breath pure O2 for
several hours before going out in suits...to purge nitrogen from their bodies).

Burns


	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
From: ttidcc!hollombe (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 31 Jul 85 01:59:06 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory
R#Khy-To: hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath)

In article <1816@aecom.UUCP> werner@aecom.UUCP (Craig Werner) writes:
>	You'd have to ask the Russians. As long as the Americans use a pure
>Oxygen atmosphere (they did thru Skylab, and I believe they still do), this
>is one experiment that is not going to be done on the shuttle.

I thought we stopped using 100%  O2  after  the  Apollo  13  disaster.  Can
someone confirm the current state of such?

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe)
Citicorp TTI                      Common Sense is what tells you that a ten
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.             pound weight falls ten times as fast as a
Santa Monica, CA  90405           one pound weight.
(213) 450-9111, ext. 2483
{philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!noao!terak!mot!fred
From: mot!fred (Fred Christiansen)
Subject: Re: Columbia's Tiled Damaged by Rain
Date: 30 Jul 85 19:34:41 GMT
Organization: Motorola Microsystems, Phoenix AZ

how interesting!  Columbia's tiles survive atmosphere re-entry only to get
beat up by a rainstorm (which you'd think would be gentle) coming at it at
a couple hundred mph.
-- 
<< Generic disclaimer >>
Fred Christiansen ("Canajun, eh?") @ Motorola Microsystems, Tempe, AZ
UUCP:  ihnp4!{attunix, btlunix, drivax, sftig, ut-sally!oakhill}!mot!fred
ARPA:  oakhill!mot!fred@ut-sally.ARPA             AT&T:  602-438-3472

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!aecom!werner
From: aecom!werner (Craig Werner)
Subject: Re: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 29 Jul 85 05:14:52 GMT
Organization: Albert Einstein Coll. of Med., NY

> > ... in space?

	You'd have to ask the Russians. As long as the Americans use a pure
Oxygen atmosphere (they did thru Skylab, and I believe they still do), this
is one experiment that is not going to be done on the shuttle.

-- 
				Craig Werner
				!philabs!aecom!werner
		"The world is just a straight man for you sometimes"

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!mgnetp!we53!busch!wucs!wuphys!jmc
From: wuphys!jmc (Jimmy Chen)
Subject: Many Shuttle Missions
Date: 28 Jul 85 23:57:22 GMT
Organization: Physics Dept., Washington Univ. in St. Louis

Does anyone know what the chances of a mission involving more than one
shuttle at a time?  I was under the impression that despite the pictures
of shuttles docking with space stations, they couldn't actually space dock
with each other yet.

Also has NASA ever handle the launch of more than one manned vehicle?  I'm
sure they didn't during the Mercury project.  I think they didn't during
Gemini.  They only mission like this I can recall is the joint
American-Russian one and the Russians must have handle the launch of their
Soyuz.

                               Jimmy Chen
                            (ihnp4!wuphys!jmc)

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Launch Delayed by Gyro Problem
Date: 29 Jul 85 20:54:55 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

Just fifteen minutes before its scheduled 1523 EDT launch today,
Challenger's liftoff was again delayed, this time by a faulty
gyroscope.  The unit, one of three in one of the shuttle boosters,
failed to respond to computer commands, but the problem was
later solved, and NASA has reset the launch for 1700 EDT today.
The launch window closes at 1830 EDT.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Launch
Date: 29 Jul 85 21:12:51 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The Challenger launched at 1700 EDT today, after an earlier
delay due to a faulty SRB gyro.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Abort to Orbit
Date: 29 Jul 85 21:47:18 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

Six minutes into its flight, Challenger lost power in its centre main
engine, and the other two engines burned 1 minute 32 seconds longer to
compensate.  The crew was instructed to abort to orbit, bypassing a
possible emergency landing in Rota, Spain.  The shuttle ended up in an
orbit ranging between 120 and 160 miles, lower than the hoped for 240 mile
circular orbit.  An OMS burn 33 minutes into flight is to circularlize the
orbit.  NASA hopes that the mission can be completed to its full seven day
duration, but no decision has been made yet.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Corrections
Date: 29 Jul 85 22:07:45 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

Two minor corrections:

1) The two remaining engines burned for 1:26, not 1:32
2) The elliptical shuttle orbit was 122x160 miles, instead
   of the normal 122x214 miles at that point.  The initial
   intended orbit was a circular orbit of about 140 miles,
   not 240 miles.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!petsd!petfe!johnd
From: petfe!johnd (John Decatur)
Subject: 51.f freq's
Date: 30 Jul 85 02:09:22 GMT
Organization: Perkin-Elmer DSG, Tinton Falls, N.J.


 There off....
 Minus one engine but...

 This shuttle flight has two hams onboard , W0ORE, tony and W4NYZ john.
 Also sstv this flight!                                        
 Always nice to hear first hand whats going on.
 The ssb frequencies require a bfo on the receiver, however if your in
 the areas try the 140 mhz freq's mentioned, on any scanner type radio.

 Planned shuttle frequencies for 51-f are:
 (all freq. in mhz.)  
 Direct 2m down - 145.55 (slow scan tv in color also...)
 Nasa/Goddard greenbelt md.
     3.860 ssb       
     7.185 ssb     
    14.295 ssb
    21.390 ssb 
   147.450 fm wash dc area
 Jet Prop. Lab/pasadena ca.
   224.040 fm
   145.460 fm
 Marshall space flight cntr huntsville ,al
   145.430 fm
 Nasa/Aims san francisco, ca
   145.580 fm
     7.270 ssb
 New York City area
   147.000 fm (as avail.)

                                             73,  de ...johnd (KA2QHD)
                              {ucbvax|decvax}!vax135!petsd!petfe!johnd         
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!phoenix!brent
From: phoenix!brent (Brent P. Callaghan)
Subject: Re: Tropics
Date: 29 Jul 85 13:37:43 GMT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft NJ

>A book I was reading recently mentioned  that  over  time  the
>angle  of  the plane of the ecliptic changes.  The consequence is that
>the latitude of the tropics also move.  While this  makes  sense,  the
>book  also  stated that there is no formula which describes the motion
>over  time.  Is  this  really  true?  The  context  was  that  certain
>archeological  sites  are  solstice  oriented  and could be accurately
>dated if it was known in what year a Tropic was at  X  latitude.  Just
>curious.

As far as I know, this process is known as "nutation".
The earth's axis of rotation precesses around a point in
space with a period of 20,000 years or so.  Superimposed on this
motion is another motion with a much shorter period.
I think nutation is caused by sun-moon gravitational effects on
the earth's equatorial bulge and tidal friction.

The effect over time is that the season's slowly shift around the
year, so that in 11,000 years time you'll be eating lettuce salads
for Christmas dinner like New Zealanders do!

As far as I know - nutation IS predictable.  There is even a clock
somewhere with extra dials for years, centuries etc.  The slowest
movement is the nutation dial.
Interestingly, the earth is not fixed to it's axis of rotation.
The north & south poles can move tens of yards every year.
I've seen a map showing the south pole moving erratically
(drunken walk) within a radius of 100 yards or so.
I don't think this movement is predictable.  I guess they
have the barber pole on wheels . :-)
-- 
				
Made in New Zealand -->		Brent Callaghan
				AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft, NJ
				{ihnp4|mtuxo|pegasus}!phoenix!brent
				(201) 576-3475

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!lanl!jkw
From: jkw@lanl.ARPA
Subject: Re: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 31 Jul 85 14:28:03 GMT
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory

> > > ... in space?
> 
> 	You'd have to ask the Russians. As long as the Americans use a pure
> Oxygen atmosphere (they did thru Skylab, and I believe they still do), this
> is one experiment that is not going to be done on the shuttle.
> 

Oh I don't know about that.  Surely NASA could design an experiment to
enclose a candle and a whiff of "normal" atmosphere for no more than
10 or 20 million $.  Look what they did with Coke and Pepsi :-).

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!mcnc!rti-sel!rcb
From: rti-sel!rcb (Random)
Subject: Re: George Orwell quote
Date: 30 Jul 85 15:04:53 GMT
Reply-To: rcb@rti-sel.UUCP (Random)
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, NC

In article <2814@mordor.UUCP> @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC.ARPA:DOLANTP@USC-ISI.ARPA writes:
>
>Knowing what a well-read group this is, can anyone refer me to the origin of
>the Orwell quote,
>
>	"He who controls the present, controls the past;
>	 he who controls the past, controls the future."
>
>If you have a book, edition, and chapter, it would help my thesis a lot.  
>Thanks much.
>

The quote obviously comes from "1984" I'm afraid I don't have a chapter
or page number though.
-- 
					Random
					Research Triangle Institute
					...!mcnc!rti-sel!rcb

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Second Engine Almost Shut Down
Date: 30 Jul 85 12:29:19 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

Minutes after Engine Number 1 shut down yesterday, a temperature sensor on
the right main engine also began to show overheating.  As the backup
sensor came on to verify the reading, NASA instructed the crew to shut
down the sensors and override the automatic shutdown of that engine;
fortunately, the temperature never got high enough that that would have
happened anyway.  However, loss of a second engine at that point would
have forced the Challenger to attempt an emergency landing on the island
of Crete, and, as NASA put it, they probably would have ended up ''in the
water.''  When EN1 shut down, the ship was 33 seconds past the TAL (Trans
Atlantic Abort (to Spain)) point.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!rochester!rocksanne!sunybcs!kitty!peter
From: kitty!peter (Peter DaSilva)
Subject: Re: Re: space delivery
Date: 31 Jul 85 14:30:16 GMT
Organization: Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, NY

> > [ME]
> >Wouldn't the calcium deficiency noted in free fall SERIOUSLY harm the fetus (who
> >can't use a treadmill, or would the mother's exercising serve?)?
> 
> Having just gone throught two pregnancies with my wife, rest assured that
> no fetus that is even slight healthy has a problem with exercise...

It was my understanding that you needed a certain kind of excersize in free
fall. Am I wrong?

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!rochester!rocksanne!sunybcs!kitty!peter
From: kitty!peter (Peter DaSilva)
Subject: Re: Re: space delivery
Date: 31 Jul 85 14:32:24 GMT
Organization: Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, NY

> > Wouldn't the calcium deficiency noted in free fall SERIOUSLY harm the fetus (who
> > can't use a treadmill, or would the mother's exercising serve?)?
> > -- 
> > 	Peter da Silva (the mad Australian)
> Good question.  I'd guess not, since the fetus is sitting in a neutral
> buoyancy environment at first, and subsequently (the last few months)
> doesn't have much leg room.  The mechanisms that cause the fetus to
> absorb calcium in large quantities must not depend on gravity.
> -- 
> "Don't argue with a fool.      Ethan Vishniac

But bouyant and free fall environments aren't quite the same thing. After
all, dolphins don't lose calcium [:->].

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!gatech!amdcad!mike
From: amdcad!mike (Mike Parker)
Subject: Re: Abort to Orbit
Date: 1 Aug 85 01:47:06 GMT
Organization: AMDCAD, Sunnyvale, CA
Summary: How to get home from Rota

I seem to remember that the range of the 747-shuttle piggyback
combination is only about 1000 miles. If they ever do abort to
Rota, Spain how do they get the damned thing back to the USA

Mike

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Failed Engine
Date: 30 Jul 85 01:52:24 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

Engine Number 1 shut down in midburn today because both primary and backup
systems reported overheating in a high-pressure turbo fuel pump; computers
shut the engine down to avoid danger of explosion, and mission control
instructed the crew to burn the other two engines at 104% rated thrust for
the duration of their fuel.  At the same time, some of the hydrazine fuel
for the OMS was dumped to lighten the load.  There is plenty of OMS fuel
left for reentry and most of the scientific experiments, and NASA is
confident that the mission can continue for its full seven days.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!bellcore!petrus!karn
From: petrus!karn (Phil R. Karn)
Subject: First set of actual shuttle elements
Date: 30 Jul 85 16:17:12 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Inc

Satellite: sts-51f
Catalog number: 0
Epoch time:      85211.58763889
   Tue Jul 30 14:06:12.0   1985 UTC
Element set:     real1
Inclination:       49.4924 deg
RA of node:       151.7455 deg
Eccentricity:    0.0007921
Arg of perigee:   245.1087 deg
Mean anomaly:     269.4665 deg
Mean motion:   15.83629098 rev/day
Decay rate:         0.0004 rev/day^2
Epoch rev:              12
Semi major axis:  6699.202 km
Anom period:     90.930383 min
Apogee:            336.536 km
Perigee:           325.923 km
Ref perigee:      2767.60351899
   Tue Jul 30 14:29:04.40  1985 UTC

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Sensors Probably to Blame
Date: 30 Jul 85 16:05:03 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

NASA said today that early analysis of data from the shuttle Challenger
points to a problem with EN1's heat sensors, not the engine itself.  As
a result, the agency said that the 24 August launch of the Discovery
would go ahead as planned, with better heat sensors aboard.  The Discovery
today was moved into the VAB and will be moved to the launch pad Monday.

Meanwhile, the crew of the Challenger wrestled with a telescope pointing
device, testing of which is the most important goal of the mission.  The
platform will be used on a flight next spring to study Halleys' comet.
One of the telescopes on the platform also lost power, and technicians
are working on solutions to both problems.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!utastro!ethan
From: utastro!ethan (Ethan Vishniac)
Subject: Re: Re: space delivery
Date: 1 Aug 85 15:04:13 GMT
Organization: U. Texas, Astronomy, Austin, TX

> > > Wouldn't the calcium deficiency noted in free fall SERIOUSLY harm the fetus (who
> > > can't use a treadmill, or would the mother's exercising serve?)?
> > > -- 
> > > 	Peter da Silva (the mad Australian)
> > Good question.  I'd guess not, since the fetus is sitting in a neutral
> > buoyancy environment at first, and subsequently (the last few months)
> > doesn't have much leg room.  The mechanisms that cause the fetus to
> > absorb calcium in large quantities must not depend on gravity.
> > -- 
> > "Don't argue with a fool.      Ethan Vishniac
> 
> But bouyant and free fall environments aren't quite the same thing. After
> all, dolphins don't lose calcium [:->].

Good point.  However, dolphins exercise like crazy.  Besides is there any
difference between buoyant and free fall environments besides orientability?
It's possible (just barely) that the body's calcium budget listens to the
inner ear, but I guess it doesn't.
-- 

"Don't argue with a fool.      Ethan Vishniac
 Borrow his money."            {charm,ut-sally,ut-ngp,noao}!utastro!ethan
                               Department of Astronomy
                               University of Texas

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!teddy!rdp
From: teddy!rdp
Subject: Re: Re: space delivery
Date: 1 Aug 85 15:05:33 GMT
Reply-To: rdp@teddy.UUCP (Richard D. Pierce)
Organization: GenRad, Inc., Concord, Mass.

In article <186@kitty.UUCP> peter@kitty.UUCP (Peter DaSilva) writes:
>> > [ME]
>> >Wouldn't the calcium deficiency noted in free fall SERIOUSLY harm the fetus (who
>> >can't use a treadmill, or would the mother's exercising serve?)?
>> 
>> Having just gone throught two pregnancies with my wife, rest assured that
>> no fetus that is even slight healthy has a problem with exercise...
>
>It was my understanding that you needed a certain kind of excersize in free
>fall. Am I wrong?

No, you just don't understand what fetuses seem to spend most of their
time doing is excersizing. And they don't need gravity to do it!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Aug 85 18:27:23 PDT
From: mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley (Rick McGeer)
To: utastro!ethan@ut-sally.ARPA
Subject: Re: Re: space delivery
Cc: space@mit-mc.ARPA

	I would imagine that the principle difference between weightless and
bouyant environments is the relative density of air and water.  Anyone who's
gone simming for any period of time can tell you that moving through water
is *work*.

				Rick.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Aug 85 18:28:37 PDT
From: mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley (Rick McGeer)
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: on precession, nutation, etc...


	Thanks to all who wrote in to correct me.  Learned a great deal, and,
well, it's not a big foot.  It will come out eventually.

					Rick.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!gamma!pyuxww!pyuxa!bambi!joevax!wscott
From: joevax!wscott (W. Scott Meeks)
Subject: Re: space whoopee and whoops...
Date: 29 Jul 85 15:04:37 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Inc.

_Time_Enough_for_Love_ by Heinlein had an interesting scene involving a delivery
aboard a spaceship.  For the most part, travel took place in zero g, but during
the delivery Lazarus Long (the protagonist of the whole book, I don't remember
the woman's name but I think she was his current wife) fired the ships rockets
(actually I think they were variable thrusters so that the transition was
smooth) at the appropriate moment so that the baby, in effect, had a "gravity
assist."

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!gamma!pyuxww!pyuxa!bambi!mike
From: bambi!mike (Michael Caplinger)
Subject: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 29 Jul 85 20:02:21 GMT
Reply-To: mike@bambi.UUCP (Michael Caplinger)
Organization: Bell Communications Research


Arthur C. Clarke used this problem in his juvenile novel ISLANDS IN THE
SKY.  A young "space cadet" is fooled into believing that the air in a
spacecraft cabin is going bad when an older cadet lights a match and it
goes out almost immediately.  After the joke is exposed, the older
cadet demonstrates that if the match is moved about while burning, it
won't go out.

Of course, there's no guarantee that Clarke was right about this.

	- Mike

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!mtuxo!mtgzz!dls
From: mtgzz!dls (d.l.skran)
Subject: Re: Nuclear Rockets
Date: 31 Jul 85 03:34:46 GMT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Labs, Middletown NJ


Why projects were canceled:

My understanding is as follows:

Orion: 1)testing would violate test-ban treaty
       2)MORE IMPORTANT: no clear mission requirement for aircraft carrier
         size rockets. Military decided they didn't need one.

Nerva: 1)insufficient advantage over chemical rockets to
         compenstate for all the extra trouble.

	Note: Nerva was not a "low thrust" program. Its thrust was
      	quite similar to chemical rockets. I believe you are confusing
	ion & plasma rockets(which are low thrust) with nuclear rockets.
	Frequently, an ion/plasma rocket design might call for a nuclear
	reactor to produce electricity, but other power sources could
	have been used. 

Why not today:

Nerva: same reason, insufficient advantage for all the trouble.

Orion: the smaller the explosions, the higher the efficiency. Hence,
       many people are working on particle/laser beam induced fusion
       which could be used to create a rocket an order of magnitude better
       than orion.
  
       Really, though, we've got no guts, no reason to build Orion.
      

Read Niven & Pournelle's new novel Footfall for some idea of what an
Orion ship might be like and how it could be used.

Dale

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!burl!clyde!watmath!utzoo!utcs!mnetor!fred
From: mnetor!fred (Fred Williams)
Subject: Re: space delivery
Date: 29 Jul 85 15:18:28 GMT
Reply-To: fred@mnetor.UUCP (Fred Williams)
Organization: Computer X (CANADA) Ltd., Toronto, Ontario, Canada

In article <319@baylor.UUCP> peter@baylor.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes:
>Wouldn't the calcium deficiency noted in free fall SERIOUSLY harm the fetus (who
>can't use a treadmill, or would the mother's exercising serve?)?

    Since the fetus is floating anyway, prior to birth, there would
not likely be any effect to being additionally weightless.

Cheers,		Fred Williams

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-wsgate!fisher
From: fisher@wsgate.DEC (Burns Fisher, MRO3-1/E13, DTN 231-4108.)
Subject: Challenger's ATO
Date: 1 Aug 85 13:36:25 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

<Bug Abort>

A couple of questions that the abort brings up:

1)  Did they use up ~all the fuel in the ET?  If not, why not?

2)  I thought that the usual abort procedures involved increasing thrust to
109%.  Am I wrong, or was this particular abort a special case?

3)  At the beginning of the shuttle program, I learned that there were three
primary abort mechanisms:  Return to launch site (RTL), Transatlantic Abort
(TAA?) and Abort Once Around (AOA).  Is this ATO a relatively new mode?
I initially expected that ATO was just a new name for AOA, and that they would
be landing at the end of the first orbit.  Imagine my surprise and pleasure!
What is done differently in an AOA?  No (or less) OMS burn?

4) While listening to the ascent, I heard the call "single engine ATO" before
the actual failure.  It seems to me that this call used to be called "Press to
MECO".   True? Or is ATO different?

5)  I understand that for a few seconds before the failure they were discussing
a failure of one of the redundant heat sensors.  Unfortunately, the NASA
spokesman was talking over it, so I did not hear until the actual failure.
Did anyone else hear it?

Thanks,

Burns


	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-wsgate!fisher
From: fisher@wsgate.DEC (Burns Fisher, MRO3-1/E13, DTN 231-4108.)
Subject: Lower orbit after ATO
Date: 1 Aug 85 14:29:28 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


 -dick says

> ...I don't understand why they ended up in a lower orbit, since they had
> as much fuel as ever.  Why not just burn longer?

Do a simple limits experiment in your head.  Imagine that all the main engines
went off but that an imaginary 10-lb thrust engine using the same fuel supply
kept burning.  Would it make orbit?

While it is true that with no other influences, burning extra time with lower
thrust would get you to the same velocity, it would (1) not get you to the
same location when you reached the target velocity, (with constant acceleration,
velocity increases linearly with time, with distance increases as time**2)
and (2) there are other influences such as gravity (imagine trying to launch
the shuttle by burning the hypothetical 10-lb engine for years!). 


	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

Burns

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #228
*******************

03-Aug-85  0355	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #229    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 229

Today's Topics:
			     Challenger's ATO
		      Science Abounds on Challenger
			     >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
			  Re: Re: space delivery
			       Re:  Tropics
		     Re: space whoopee and whoops...
	   Precession, variation of latitude, and the calendar
			    Re: Abort to Orbit
			 Latest STS-51F elements
			       Re:  Tropics
			  re: Would a candle...
			  Re: Shuttle atmosphere
	  Re: Answer to: What do you call the "blockhouse" now?
	Re: Re: Answer to: What do you call the "blockhouse" now?
	       Shuttle 51F Ham Radio Opportunities Schedule
		      W0ORE/Challenger heard at KA9Q
			PDP Experiments Successful
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-wsgate!fisher
From: fisher@wsgate.DEC (Burns Fisher, MRO3-1/E13, DTN 231-4108.)
Subject: Challenger's ATO
Date: 1 Aug 85 16:08:11 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

<Bug Abort>

A couple of questions that the abort brings up:

1)  Did they use up ~all the fuel in the ET?  If not, why not?

2)  I thought that the usual abort procedures involved increasing thrust to
109%.  Am I wrong, or was this particular abort a special case?

3)  At the beginning of the shuttle program, I learned that there were three
primary abort mechanisms:  Return to launch site (RTL), Transatlantic Abort
(TAA?) and Abort Once Around (AOA).  Is this ATO a relatively new mode?
I initially expected that ATO was just a new name for AOA, and that they would
be landing at the end of the first orbit.  Imagine my surprise and pleasure!
What is done differently in an AOA?  No (or less) OMS burn?

4) While listening to the ascent, I heard the call "single engine ATO" before
the actual failure.  It seems to me that this call used to be called "Press to
MECO".   True? Or is ATO different?

5)  I understand that for a few seconds before the failure they were discussing
a failure of one of the redundant heat sensors.  Unfortunately, the NASA
spokesman was talking over it, so I did not hear until the actual failure.
Did anyone else hear it?

Thanks,

Burns


	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Science Abounds on Challenger
Date: 1 Aug 85 03:27:43 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The Challenger crew today plucked the plasma diagnostics
package from the cargo bay with the RMS and moved it around
the ship.  The device is to take readings aimed at explaining
the mysterious glowing phenomena seen around most shuttle
flights to date.  Later in the mission, the PDP will be released
and then picked up again after that.

Meanwhile, a $60 German-built telescope pointing system
continued to fail, despite two attempts to fix it.  The device
locked onto the sun for brief periods but then lost track
of it.  The test is important, as the palate is to be used
during the Halleys comet mission next spring.  Three of the
four telescopes on the platform are working individuallay;
the fourth lost power and is not functioning.

------------------------------

Date: 2 Aug 85 08:59 EDT
From: Jim Moore <moore@ncsc>
Subject: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
To: space@mit-mc


It's been said before on the SF-LOVERS Bboard, and it needs to be said here.
Seeing three, four, or even more levels of back references is VERY annoying.
If you need to go more than one, how about paraphrasing the past conversations
rather than quoting them verbatim (ad infinitum, ad nauseum).


                                         Jim Moore
                                         NCSC
                                         Panama City, FL

-------

------------------------------

Posted-Date: Fri, 2 Aug 85 09:15:34 cdt
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 85 09:15:34 cdt
From: ethan%utastro.UTEXAS@ut-sally.ARPA (Ethan Vishniac)
Return-Path: <ethan@utastro.UTEXAS.ARPA>
To: ut-sally!mcgeer@ucbkim%Berkeley
Subject: Re: Re: space delivery
Cc: space@mit-mc.ARPA

Good point.  Probably is even more important for a fetus.

       Ethan

------------------------------

Date: Friday,  2 Aug 1985 13:07-EDT
From: jrv@Mitre-Bedford
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject: Re:  Tropics

>         Incidentally, the world shifted to the Gregorian calendar at varying
> times.  The Roman Catholic world did it first, in the 16th Century -- but
> that was after the Schism, and so England didn't follow suit.  For 200 years
> England's calendar trailed the European by first 9, then 10, then 11 days.
> England finally converted in the mid-18th Century, to riots (11 days were
> dropped from the calendar at the stroke of a pen)...

I believe the reason for the riots was that people were forced to pay a whole
month's rent for the short month.

				       - Jim Van Zandt

------------------------------

Date: Friday,  2 Aug 1985 13:31-EDT
From: jrv@Mitre-Bedford
To: SPACE@mit-mc
Subject: Re: space whoopee and whoops...


> _Time_Enough_for_Love_ by Heinlein had an interesting scene involving a delivery
> aboard a spaceship.  For the most part, travel took place in zero g, but during
> the delivery Lazarus Long (the protagonist of the whole book, I don't remember
> the woman's name but I think she was his current wife) ...

No, I believe she was in the arms of her husband at the time, though.

>                                                 ...fired the ships rockets
> (actually I think they were variable thrusters so that the transition was
> smooth) at the appropriate moment so that the baby, in effect, had a "gravity
> assist."

As I remember, he merely adjusted the artificial gravity.

				 - Jim Van Zandt

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Aug 85 10:37 PDT
From: FRIEDRITR%VAXJ.GATNET.MFENET@LLL-MFE.ARPA
Subject: Precession, variation of latitude, and the calendar
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA



I dug out my copy of George Abell's "Exploration of the Universe", to try to
find out what is known about polar wandering and such.  First, a couple of
definitions, and an apology for such a long message, but I wanted to be as
complete as possible.

Celestial pole:  the points at which the Earth's axis, extended out toward
infinity, appear to meet the sky.  For the north celestial pole, this
point is near Polaris, the "north star".

Celestial equator:  the line around the sky that represents the Earth's
equator, similarly extended.

North and south poles:  the points at which the Earth's rotational axis
would stick out of the ground.

Let's also agree not to discuss wandering of the magnetic poles; this
effect, as has been pointed out, is rather large, but is not related to
the originally-posed problem of astronomical alignment of ancient structures.

First, let's talk about the movement of the celestial poles.  The Earth,
acting as a gyroscope because of its rotation, precesses.  Thus, the celestial
poles describe circles in the sky with a diameter of twice the inclination
of the Earth's axis to its orbital plane, or 47 degrees, with a period of
about 26,000 years.  This effect was discovered by Hipparchus, in the
second century B.C.

Consequences:  this motion DOES NOT affect the latitude of the Tropics of
Cancer and Capricorn.  This motion DOES give us two definitions of the
length of a year.  The "sidereal year" is the time it takes the Earth
to travel 360 degrees around the Sun.  However, we can also define a
year as the time it takes for the Sun, starting from the celestial equator,
to travel completely around the sky and come back to the celestial equator.
Because of precession, this takes about 20 minutes less than a sidereal
year, and is called a "tropical year".  It is this definition of a year,
365.242199 days, which the calendar is tied to.

The consequence of THAT is that the seasons will NOT shift with respect
to the calendar over time.  Spring will always begin in March, July will
always be midsummer, and you can always hope for a white Christmas.
(Apologies to those in the southern hemisphere.)  The tropical year, not
the sidereal year, determines the seasonal cycle, and the calendar keeps
pace with the tropical year.

Superimposed on precession is nutation, which is caused by the gravita-
tional effects of the Sun and the Moon (mostly the Moon).  Nutation
superimposes a wave motion with a period of about 19 years on the
precessional circle, with an amplitude of 9.2 seconds of arc.

Finally, the plane of the Earth's orbit changes slightly, a fraction of
a second of arc each year; this also adds a very slight wobble to the
motion of the celestial poles.

Let me point out again that NONE of these effects alters the latitude
of the Tropics.

Now let's talk about the movement of the north and south poles them-
selves over the surface of the Earth.  This has nothing to do with
precession, but is a shifting of the position within the Earth of the
rotational axis itself.  This is called "variation of latitude", and
also does NOT change the latitude of the Tropics; it just changes where
on the surface of the Earth the Tropics fall.

This motion seems to be comprised of two components:  one, with a period
of one year, is a circle roughly 20 feet in diameter.  The second has a
period of about 14 months, and is also a circular motion, but the diameter
of the circle varies from about 10 to about 50 feet.  Both of these motions
are attributed to variations in the distribution of the mass of the atmo-
sphere over the surface of the Earth, the former a seasonal change, and the
latter random changes.

On top of this is a secular drift of the poles in one direction of about
4 inches per year, as yet unexplained.

Finally, NONE of these effects alter the latitude of the Tropics.  I do
not have any references that suggest that the tilt of the Earth's axis
with respect to the Sun has changed, which is what determines the latitude
of the Tropics.  I would appreciate hearing about any reputable references
to such a phenomenon.

Terry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!ihlpg!jcjeff
From: ihlpg!jcjeff (Richard Jeffreys)
Subject: Re: Abort to Orbit
Date: 1 Aug 85 05:17:03 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

> I seem to remember that the range of the 747-shuttle piggyback
> combination is only about 1000 miles. If they ever do abort to
> Rota, Spain how do they get the damned thing back to the USA
> 
> Mike

Quite easy really. Refuel the 747 at a couple of airports on the way!

The 747 took Enteprise to the Paris (France) Air Show a couple of years ago.
The 'plane refuelled in Greenland and also at Fairford (England) USAF base,
where I, and many others, had the chance of a very close look at the shuttle.

The 747 stayed at Fairford for a couple of hours and went on to France. On
the way back it was flow back to Stansted (just outside London) and stayed a
couple of days, giving many people the chance to see the shuttle on it's
first trip outside the USA.

-- 
 [ I bought a ticket to the world, 
                              But now I've come back again - Spandau Ballet ]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
||      From the keys of Richard Jeffreys ( British Citizen Overseas )      ||
||              employed by North American Philips Corporation              ||
||              @ AT&T Bell Laboratories, Naperville, Illinois              ||
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
||  General disclaimer about anything and everything that I may have typed  ||
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!bellcore!petrus!karn
From: petrus!karn (Phil R. Karn)
Subject: Latest STS-51F elements
Date: 31 Jul 85 17:18:30 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Inc

Satellite: sts-51f
Catalog number: 0
Epoch time:      85212.59409722
   Wed Jul 31 14:15:29.999 1985 UTC
Element set:     5a
Inclination:       49.4884 deg
RA of node:       146.3659 deg
Eccentricity:    0.0006493
Arg of perigee:   317.0027 deg
Mean anomaly:     185.4998 deg
Mean motion:   15.86377915 rev/day
Decay rate:        0.00025 rev/day^2
Epoch rev:              28
Semi major axis:  6691.464 km
Anom period:     90.772822 min
Apogee:            323.413 km
Perigee:           314.723 km
Ref perigee:      2768.62465252
   Wed Jul 31 14:59:29.977 1985 UTC

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Aug 85 12:32:15 PDT
From: mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley (Rick McGeer (on an aaa-60-s))
To: jrv@Mitre-Bedford, SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject: Re:  Tropics
Cc: 


>>        Incidentally, the world shifted to the Gregorian calendar at varying
>> times.  The Roman Catholic world did it first, in the 16th Century -- but
>> that was after the Schism, and so England didn't follow suit. For 200 years
>> England's calendar trailed the European by first 9, then 10, then 11 days.
>> England finally converted in the mid-18th Century, to riots (11 days were
>> dropped from the calendar at the stroke of a pen)...
>
>I believe the reason for the riots was that people were forced to pay a whole
>month's rent for the short month.



	Rents in those days were charged by the quarter.  Anyway, you're
right, but that was, sad to say, secondary.  People were really upset
because they'd been made 11 days older at the stroke of a pen..."Give us
back our 11 days", they cried...

	A notable exception to this nonsense was an American planter named
Washington.  In the middle of the kerfuffle, he simply changed his birthdate
in the family bible from February 11 to February 22.  An eminently sensible
individual.

					Rick.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!uw-june!entropy!dataio!braman
From: dataio!braman (Rick Braman)
Subject: re: Would a candle...
Date: 1 Aug 85 07:51:43 GMT
Organization: Data I/O Corp., Redmond WA

> 
> > ...the current space program uses a pure O2 atmosphere...
> 
> "That turns out not to be the case."  Apollo and Gemini and Mercury used
> pure O2, but even on those, it was at reduced pressure in space so that the
> partial pressure of O2 was about the same as on Earth.  While sitting on the
> pad, it was a different story, the complete telling of which would include
> the Apollo I fire.
>     ^^^^^^^^
> 	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

Don't you mean Apollo 7?

-- 

                                       o
                                       |       " Go catch a thermal! "
                                       |
                                       | 
                             _________oOo_________ 
  x                                  O   O                                   x
   \xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxO   Oxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/
                                     O   O
                                      OoO

    uw-beaver!entropy!dataio!braman                            -- Usenet
    Rick Braman    Data I/O Corp     Redmond WA             206-885-5851

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!mcnc!akgua!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!phoenix!brent
From: phoenix!brent (Brent P. Callaghan)
Subject: Re: Shuttle atmosphere
Date: 31 Jul 85 14:04:05 GMT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft NJ

>The current space program uses a 100% O2 atmosphere.  If you lit a
>flame in such an atmosphere, would all the dust and other random
>particles ignite in the presence of the flame?

Correction:  The space shuttle uses a nitrogen/oxygen mixture
at only slightly reduced pressure.  The Soviets have always
used nitrogen/oxygen at 15 psi.

For an EVA, the shuttle pressure suits supply 100% O2 at greatly
reduced pressure.  Mission specialists prepare for an EVA by
pre-breathing pure oxygen to purge nitrogen from their bodies.
and avoid the bends.
-- 
				
Made in New Zealand -->		Brent Callaghan
				AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft, NJ
				{ihnp4|mtuxo|pegasus}!phoenix!brent
				(201) 576-3475

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!hplabs!ames!eugene
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Re: Answer to: What do you call the "blockhouse" now?
Date: 30 Jul 85 17:57:19 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

We did not receive the referenced articles as our news feed was down.

>   OK trivia buffs: what kind of computers (manufacturer, operating
> system, etc.) do they have in the LCC and launch pedestal?
> 
> Cheers,
>   Lindsay
> 
> Lindsay Cleveland  (akgua!glc) (404) 447-3909   Cornet 583-3909
> AT&T Technologies/Bell Laboratories ... Atlanta, Ga

I have not been to KSC, but I believe the majority of main machines are a
combination of IBM 370-class machines running a home grown system and
several hundred MODCOMP-IIs, IVs, and CLASSICs running different versions
of the MAX operating system.  There are a few PDP-11s and VAX/VMS systems,
some VARIAN 620f and Univacs V73s and 1100s.

By the way, I was at the ACM booth at SIGGRAPH, and there is an excellent
article in a recent issue of the Annuals of Computing on NASA space
computers.  It mentions the use of magnetic tape drives at a time when
everybody else is using disk drives.


--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,decwrl,allegra}!ames!aurora!eugene
  emiya@ames-vmsb

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!hplabs!ames!aurora!al
From: aurora!al (Al Globus)
Subject: Re: Re: Answer to: What do you call the "blockhouse" now?
Date: 30 Jul 85 23:28:29 GMT
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

> We did not receive the referenced articles as our news feed was down.
> 
> >   OK trivia buffs: what kind of computers (manufacturer, operating
> > system, etc.) do they have in the LCC and launch pedestal?
> > 
> > Cheers,
> >   Lindsay
> > 
> > Lindsay Cleveland  (akgua!glc) (404) 447-3909   Cornet 583-3909
> > AT&T Technologies/Bell Laboratories ... Atlanta, Ga
> 
Related issue:  JSC just bought a large number of MASSCOMP's running a
real time version of UNIX to replace mission control computers.  I don't
know how the conversion is going or even if it will ever be accomplished.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!prls!amdimage!amdcad!amd!pesnta!phri!timeinc!dwight
From: timeinc!dwight (Dwight Ernest)
Subject: Shuttle 51F Ham Radio Opportunities Schedule
Date: 31 Jul 85 20:15:25 GMT
Reply-To: dwight@timeinc.UUCP (Dwight Ernest)
Organization: Time, Inc. - New York

[ Note from KA2CNN ...vax135!timeinc!dwight:
	No guarantees, but the METs (Mission Elapsed Times) shown
below may still be good. --Dwight 850731, 20:10 UTC ]

4331 BN  4216 ALL    WB2RVX WB2MNF 850729 Forwarded from WB2RVX at 0527z
 521 BN  4139 ALL    W3IWI  WB2MNF 850729 Forwarded from W3IWI PBBS at 0258z
5795 BN  4073 ALL    W3IWI  WB2MNF 850729 STS-51F info (from ASR)
The following is from Amateur Satellite Report #106

          Shuttle 51F Operating Opportunities Announced

NASA, AMSAT and ARRL have announced tentative operating
opportunities for the mission of Tony England, W0ORE, and
John-David Bartoe, W4NYZ.  As previously detailed, actual voice
operating time for the astronauts will be quite limited due to
the heavy "official" workload.  This is reflected in the schedule
below with the majority of transmissions being SSTV scan
converted images from the NASA on-board video.  This will be the
first occasion on which SSTV has originated on a shuttle.

The majority of voice transmissions will be with previously
scheduled clubs and youth groups.  This arrangement is in accord
with the express wishes of Tony England so as to make the most
efficient use of the limited operating time available.

The downlink frequency will be 145.55 MHz.  If an open operating
period is declared, you may attempt to QSO with the shuttle on
144.91, 144.97, 145.03 or 145.63 MHz.  Listen to WA3NAN on the
frequencies listed in ASR 105 for late breaking news on the
operation.

The following data is courtesy of NASA spokesperson Chuck Biggs,
KC5RG.


                STS 51F Amateur Radio Opportunities
                   Launch: July 29, 19:23 UTC

                MET                   UTC
Orbit     Start      Stop       Start      Stop       Mode
          d/hh:mm    d/hh:mm    d/hh:mm    d/hh:mm
==============================================================
47        2/22:10    2/22:40    01/17:33   01/18:03   TV & Voice
48        2/23:45    3/00:15    01/19:08   01/19:38   TV
49        3/01:20    3/01:40    01/20:43   01/21:03   TV & Voice
50        3/02:45    3/03:45    01/22:08   01/23:08   TV
51        3/04:20    3/05:20    01/23:43   02/00:43   TV
52        3/05:50    3/06:30    02/01:13   02/01:53   TV
53        3/07:25    3/08:05    02/02:48   02/03:28   TV
54        3/09:00    3/09:30    02/04:23   01/04:53   TV
58        3/15:30    3/15:40    02/10:53   02/11:03   TV
62        3/21:30    3/21:40    02/16:53   02/17:03   TV
63        3/22:50    3/23:25    02/18:13   02/18:48   TV
64        4/00:20    4/01:00    02/19:43   02/20:23   TV
65        4/01:45    4/02:15    02/21:08   02/21:38   TV
66        4/03:25    4/03:50    02/22:48   02/23:13   TV
67        4/05:10    4/05:30    03/00:33   03/00:53   TV
68        4/06:25    4/07:05    03/01:48   03/02:28   TV
69        4/08:05    4/08:35    03/03:28   03/03:58   TV
73        4/14:30    4/14:45    03/09:53   03/10:08   TV
78        4/21:50    4/22:25    03/17:13   03/17:48   TV
79        4/23:25    4/23:55    03/18:48   03/19:18   TV & Voice
80        5/01:00    5/01:20    03/20:23   03/20:43   TV
81        5/02:25    5/02:55    03/21:48   03/22:18   TV
82        5/04:10    5/04:30    03/23:33   03/23:53   TV
83        5/05:25    5/05:35    04/00:48   04/00:58   CW
83        5/05:45    5/06:05    04/01:08   04/01:28   TV
84        5/07:05    5/07:40    4/02:28    04/03:03   TV
85        5/08:40    5/09:05    04/04:03   04/04:28   TV
86        5/11:20    5/11:30    04/06:43   04/06:53   TV
89        5/15:05    5/15:20    04/10:28   04/10:43   TV
93        5/21:05    5/21:25    04/16:28   04/16:48   TV & Voice
94        5/22:25    5/22:55    04/17:48   04/18:18   TV
95        6/00:00    6/00:20    04/19:23   04/19:43   TV & Voice
96        6/01:25    6/01:55    04/20:48   04/21:18   TV
97        6/03:00    6/03:30    04/22:23   04/22:53   TV
98        6/04:45    6/05:05    05/00:08   05/00:28   TV
99        6/06:05    6/06:40    05/01:28   05/02:03   TV
100       6/07:40    6/08:05    05/03:03   05/03:28   TV
101       6/10:20    6/10:25    05/05:43   05/05:48   TV
104       6/14:10    6/14:20    05/09:33   05/09:43   TV
=================================================================

NOTES:
1. UTC day is day of the month of August.
2. This is revision B.
3. Offset from prior launch schedule (12 Jul 85, 20:30UTC) to
   current planned launch (29 Jul 85, 19:23 UTC): 16 days, 22
   hours, 53 minutes.
4. MET is Mission Elapsed Time
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
		--Dwight Ernest	KA2CNN	\ Usenet:...vax135!timeinc!dwight
		  Time Inc. Edit./Prod. Tech. Grp., New York City
		  Voice: (212) 554-5061 \ Compuserve: 70210,523
		  Telemail: DERNEST/TIMECOMDIV/TIMEINC \ MCI: DERNEST
"The opinions expressed above are those of the writer and do not necessarily
 reflect the opinions of Time Incorporated."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!bellcore!petrus!karn
From: petrus!karn (Phil R. Karn)
Subject: W0ORE/Challenger heard at KA9Q
Date: 1 Aug 85 23:31:58 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Inc

SSTV signals were copied at KA9Q from W0ORE aboard the space shuttle
Challenger on two consecutive passes this afternoon (approx 5:30 and 7:15 pm
EDT). With a KLM-14C and GaAsFET preamp, signals were good, but not overly
strong (i.e, full quieting, but not pegging the meter). The signal is FM at
145.55 mHz and consists of slow scan television interspersed with the
tone CW ID "W0ORE/CHALLENGER".

Based on antenna pointing and doppler, tracking is about 1.5 minutes behind
predictions based on the last set (set 5a) so it ought to be usable at least
until a possible orbit change takes place tomorrow.

As with the STS-9/W5LFL flight, PLEASE avoid any and all transmissions on
145.55 mHz!

Phil

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: PDP Experiments Successful
Date: 2 Aug 85 01:21:21 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

Challenger astronauts today zapped the plasma diagnostic
package with an electron gun to simulate observed electron
bolt exchanges between distant stars, and ground controllers
said the experiment gathered ''fundamental data'' in helping
to explain this phenomenon.  The PDP also recorded ''fantastic
wave effects'' of the Challenger passing through the ionosphere.

Meanwhile, ground controllers were examining remaining fuel
supplies aboard the shuttle in the hopes that its orbit might
be raised by 8 to 10 miles.  A decision is expected by Friday.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #229
*******************

04-Aug-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #230    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 230

Today's Topics:
		     Re: Re: Would a candle burn ...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 1 Aug 85 16:50:47 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

Actually, I believe if you check you will find that while Mercury, Gemini,
and Apollo used pure oxygen, Skylab did not and the Shuttle does not.
They do run at somewhat lower pressure than Earth surface, so the mix is
oxygen-rich relative to normal air, but there is a fair bit of nitrogen
in it.  This is why Shuttle astronauts going outside spend a long time
pre-breathing pure oxygen (long enough that it's starting to be a serious
nuisance):  the space suits use pure oxygen at the lowest possible pressure,
and the astronauts have to flush the nitrogen out of their bodies before
they decompress to suit pressure.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #230
*******************

06-Aug-85  0400	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #231    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 231

Today's Topics:
			 Latest STS-51F elements
		       precession of the equinoxes
		       Lazarus Long, Space Midwife
			      Re:  calendar
		  Was that bright thing in the sky.....
			   Re: space telescope
		      Shuttle Space to be Auctioned
		      Orbit to Remain at ~190 Miles
			   Re: Challenger's ATO
		  Re: Shuttle abort procedures question
			Re: Many Shuttle Missions
		     Re: Re: Would a candle burn ...
		     Latest STS-51 keplerian elements
			       IPS Working
       Chile Agrees to Provide Easter Island for Emergency Landings
		  Re: Shuttle abort procedures question
			    Re: Abort to Orbit
		       Re: Would a candle burn ...
     Re: Chile Agrees to Provide Easter Island for Emergency Landings
			       Re:  Tropics
		       Re: Shuttle Engine Starting
		     Re: Re: Would a candle burn ...
			 Spacelab Newsconference
			 Shuttle News Conference
	  Re: Answer to: What do you call the "blockhouse" now?
		       Re: Would a candle burn ...
			    Re: Abort to Orbit
			 Spacelab News Conference
			  Re: Orphaned Response
		   Difference between 0g and immersion
	  Re: Answer to: What do you call the "blockhouse" now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sunday,  4 Aug 1985 08:02-EDT
From: jrv@Mitre-Bedford
To: SPACE@mit-mc
Subject: Latest STS-51F elements

Thanks for the orbit elements - please continue to post them.  (Now,
if I can just get a program written to use them to calculate the
current position...)
                                              - Jim Van Zandt

------------------------------

Date: Sun 4 Aug 85 18:48:00-EDT
From: FIRTH@TL-20B.ARPA
Subject: precession of the equinoxes
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: firth@TL-20B.ARPA

First, to set the record straight, the precession of the equinoxes
was discovered by Hipparkhos in about 150 BC.

The phenomenon has nothing to do with the earth's axial tilt, which does
change, but only slightly.  It rather concerns the direction the axis
points in space, which makes a slow circle once every 22000 years or so,
thereby taking the pole star from Polaris round to Vega.  This of course
makes no difference to the terrestrial seasons, which depend on the
relative positions of earth and sun, and therefore no difference to any
true solar calendar, ie one that sets its starting point with reference to
something like the winter solstice.

However, what does change is the relative position of sun and stars at any
given season; thus, in Hipparkhos' time the vernal equinox began as the
sun entered the Zodiacal sign of Pisces, whereas 2000 years earlier it
had occurred when the sun entered Aries (and by about 2050 I think the sun
will still be in Aquarius).  This of course makes nonsense of traditional
astrology; since no astrologer seems to have looked at the real sky in
several millenia, the dates given in your daily paper for 'Aries' &c are
wildly wrong.

Interestingly, one calendar WAS subject to discombobulation by the precession
of the equinoxes: the Egyptian calendar, which set the new year at the time
of the heliacal rising of the star Sirius, at which time the Nile was supposed
to flood.  Well, between Narmer and Ptolemy I the precession had moved this
date by almost 7 weeks through the solar year.  For this and other reasons,
Ptolemy V Epiphanes replaced the calendar with one that took the vernal
equinox as the new year, keeping however the 12 'months' and the five
intercalary days; it was this calendar that, on the advice of the astronomer
Sosigenes, Julius Caesar introduced to Rome, and which became essentially the
Julian calendar.

On the motion of the poles: the magnetic poles move around all the time, but
I don't think anyone believes the true poles move.  There is an SF book,
The HAB Theory, built arond the idea that the poles suddenly move a large
distance in a catastrophic manner (or maybe the poles stay in the same place
but the earth's crust moves; the book isn't clear on this).  Naturally, such
an event wrecks civilisations, &c, so if you think one is coming, sell your
orichalcum-mining stock and build a deep shelter some place like the Andes,
for convenient later discovery by E von Daeniken.

The book is very long and very bad, but has a lot of fun fabricating "evidence"
in support of the "theory"

Robert Firth
-------

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!mcnc!rti-sel!rtp47!throopw
From: rtp47!throopw (Wayne Throop)
Subject: Lazarus Long, Space Midwife
Date: 2 Aug 85 18:07:59 GMT
Organization: Data General, RTP, NC

> _Time_Enough_for_Love_ by Heinlein had an interesting scene involving a
> delivery aboard a spaceship.

So far so good.  But I have a few relatively unimportant points to
clarify below.

> For the most part, travel took place in zero g,

Nope, the trip was all in 1-G "comfort"... artificial gravity don't y'know.

> but during the delivery Lazarus Long (the protagonist of the whole book,
> I don't remember the woman's name but I think she was his current wife)

She was simply a passenger.  Lazarus had liberated her and her
genetically unrelated twin brother (trust me) from slavery on an
unsavory planet.

> fired the ships rockets (actually I think they were variable thrusters
> so that the transition was smooth)

He boosted the artifical gravity to 2 Gs over a period of a couple of
seconds.

> at the appropriate moment so that the baby, in effect, had a
> "gravity assist."

This is the crucial point, and is quite correct.  However, this was
*not* an assist for a zero-g delivery, but rather a convenience for a
normal delivery in a squatting position.  At some convenient moment
after dialation, the gravity was increased to ease and shorten the
labor.  It isn't totally clear whether 2 Gs during delivery would be a
good idea or not, but is a facinating possibility for assisting a
difficult delivery (or even a normal one, I suppose) without using
forceps.
-- 
Wayne Throop at Data General, RTP, NC
<the-known-world>!mcnc!rti-sel!rtp47!throopw

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!ptsfa!well!micropro!kepler!mojo
From: kepler!mojo (Morris Jones)
Subject: Re:  calendar
Date: 2 Aug 85 17:09:29 GMT
Reply-To: mojo@kepler.UUCP (mojo)
Organization: MicroPro Int'l Corp., San Rafael, CA

>	Yea.  We have a leap second periodically to even out the flaws in
>the Gregorian calendar.  Just had one this year, in fact.

I thought the leap seconds were to keep Coordinated Universal Time in
sync within a second of astronomical time.

Mojo
MicroPro

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-katadn!bottom
From: bottom@katadn.DEC
Subject: Was that bright thing in the sky.....
Date: 2 Aug 85 23:34:31 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Last night (1 Aug) at about 8:45 pm we sighted a bright object traveling
very fast over our area (Augusta Maine). I wondered if it was the Shuttle.
Can anyone help me? How could I find out? Please reply by email as I 
don't subscribe to this newsgroup. Thank you very much.

Dave Bottom
Digital Augusta Maine
!dec-rhea!dec-katadn!bottom
usnail:RFD#3 Box 892
       Augusta Maine 04330
(207) 623-6935

"it is indeed a goddamn noisy box but you must call it a stereovision reciever"

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!decwrl!sun!saber!jc
From: saber!jc (John Cincotta)
Subject: Re: space telescope
Date: 2 Aug 85 17:57:49 GMT
Organization: Saber Technology, San Jose, CA

> From: <crash!usiiden!markf@Nosc>
> 
> The space telescope planned for launch in the near future
> will have two tubes on it, a red and a blue tube, according
> to one of the technicians on the project. This sounds 
> like it may have something to do with red shift and blue
> shift. Can anyone confirm this?

*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***

i just last night looked at an article in sky and tell
about the space teliscope and it implyed that there were
two "digicons" on the two spectrographs that had different
sensitive elements on them (bi vs tri alkali)
i seem to recall that this makes one sensitive into the ir 
ant the other is good into the uv

John Cincotta Saber Tech san jose 408 945 9600 voice

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Shuttle Space to be Auctioned
Date: 2 Aug 85 12:04:50 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

President Reagan has ordered that NASA, beginning in fiscal
1988, auction cargo space on the shuttle to foreign and
commercial customers.  The minimum bid on a full payload
bay would be $74M; a shuttle flight costs $71M.  Three
shuttle equivalent payloads (1 SEP == 1 full payload bay)
are to be sold per year, and NASA is then allowed to sell
any remaining space.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Orbit to Remain at ~190 Miles
Date: 2 Aug 85 12:06:07 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

NASA has decided against raising Challenger's orbit, as it would
take too much time away from scientific experiments to be
worthwhile.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Re: Challenger's ATO
Date: 2 Aug 85 12:09:11 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

ATO is a fourth abort option.  TAL (transatlantic abort) would
have been used, except that Challenger was already 33 seconds
past the furthest point from which it could do this.  AOA would
have been used had Challenger not been able to achieve a stable
orbit (note that before the OMS burn, the orbit was 129 by 3 (!!)
miles).

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Re: Shuttle abort procedures question
Date: 2 Aug 85 00:01:33 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The shuttle, believe it or not, is designed to float for a while
in water.  So a water landing, assuming its controlled, does not
necessarily mean doom for the crew.  An engine blowing up, though,
almost certainly does (if you've ever seen the films of the explosions
encountered when the ME's were in testing phase, you know what
I mean).  Also, the shuttle can land on any runway that is at
least 10,000 feet long.  This means almost every major airport
in the world.  Of course, it's not the most desireable situation,
but again, it beats and explosion.  In short, in any circumstance
I can think of, I would think NASA would want to make an emergency
landing somewhere rather than risk a blowup.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!ut-ngp!kjm
From: kjm@ut-ngp.UTEXAS (Ken Montgomery)
Subject: Re: Many Shuttle Missions
Date: 4 Aug 85 04:29:15 GMT
Organization: UTexas Computation Center, Austin, Texas

>Also has NASA ever handle the launch of more than one
>manned vehicle?  I'm sure they didn't during the
>Mercury project.  I think they didn't during Gemini.

Gemini 6 and 7 were aloft at the same time.  One of the two
(I forget which one) was used as the rendezvous target for
the other, since the Agena it was to dock with failed.

--
Ken Montgomery  "Shredder-of-hapless-smurfs"
...!{ihnp4,allegra,seismo!ut-sally}!ut-ngp!kjm  [Usenet, when working]
kjm@ut-ngp.ARPA  [for Arpanauts only]

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!decwrl!greipa!pesnta!lsuc!mnetor!fred
From: mnetor!fred (Fred Williams)
Subject: Re: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 1 Aug 85 14:09:06 GMT
Reply-To: fred@mnetor.UUCP (Fred Williams)
Organization: Computer X (CANADA) Ltd., Toronto, Ontario, Canada

In article <1816@aecom.UUCP> werner@aecom.UUCP (Craig Werner) writes:
>> > ... in space?
>
>	You'd have to ask the Russians. As long as the Americans use a pure
>Oxygen atmosphere (they did thru Skylab, and I believe they still do), this
>is one experiment that is not going to be done on the shuttle.
>				Craig Werner

    I understand that the oxygen environment is at 1/5 atmospheric
pressure. It therefore exerts the same pressure as the partial
pressure of oxygen at ground level. Otherwise it would upset the
blood chemistry of the astronauts. Burning can then be expected
to take place with no more or less violence than here on earth.
Whether this is acceptable to shuttle astronauts is another matter.
Fires do happen on earth and if one were to start aboard the shuttle
it would be of little use to calmly walk to the nearest exit.
Also to perform the experiment the fans used to circulate the air
on the shuttle would have to be shut down, and the air given a
time to settle. Disturbances due to breathing could probably be
tolerated and it would not be too much of a problem for people there
to breath carefully to avoid inhaling the same air they just
exhaled. It would only take a minute or two for the experiment
anyway. I think it would be a good bit of PR to televise back to
earth.

Cheers,		Fred Williams

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!bellcore!petrus!karn
From: petrus!karn (Phil R. Karn)
Subject: Latest STS-51 keplerian elements
Date: 2 Aug 85 16:48:20 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Inc

Satellite: sts-51f
Catalog number: 0
Epoch time:      85213.62777778
   Thu Aug  1 15:04:00.0   1985 UTC
Element set:     8-1
Inclination:       49.6015 deg
RA of node:       140.5160 deg
Eccentricity:    0.0003231
Arg of perigee:   328.8386 deg
Mean anomaly:     317.7854 deg
Mean motion:   15.85320600 rev/day
Decay rate:        0.00025 rev/day^2
Epoch rev:              44
Semi major axis:  6694.419 km
Anom period:     90.833362 min
Apogee:            321.758 km
Perigee:           317.432 km
Ref perigee:      2769.63517457
   Thu Aug  1 15:14:39.82  1985 UTC

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: IPS Working
Date: 3 Aug 85 05:31:06 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The Challenger crew today repaired the cranky instrument pointing
system, after which the IPS successfully locked onto the sun and
maintained its aim while its telescopes recorded data on sunspots.
The system, able to track a moving coin 400 miles away, will be
used next spring to observe Halleys comet.  Its test is considered
the most important goal of this mission.

So elated were ground scientists at the success that they requested
a one day extension of the mission.  NASA, however, refused this
request, as it would cut into the 48 hour supply of emergency fuel
that mission rules insist be available in case the shuttle has to
stay up for a longer period of time than planned.  Landing is now
scheduled for around1 1700 EDT Monday at EAFB.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Chile Agrees to Provide Easter Island for Emergency Landings
Date: 3 Aug 85 05:33:17 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The U.S. and Chile today signed an eight year pact under which
Chile will allow NASA to modify the runway on Easter Island for
use in case of an emergency shuttle landing there.  NASA will
be able to keep people there and, in an actual emergency, send
up to 450 specialists at one time.  The pact grants only the
present four shuttles landing priviledges and only as long as
they are owned and operated by NASA.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!ihnp4!riccb!rjnoe
From: riccb!rjnoe (Roger J. Noe )
Subject: Re: Shuttle abort procedures question
Date: 2 Aug 85 13:10:56 GMT
Organization: Starfleet Command

> From: (Richard Kenner) <KENNER@NYU-CMCL1.ARPA>
> 
> I have a question about the programming of the Shuttle abort procedures.
> While listening to yesterday's ATO, I heard a "1 engine TAL" call a while
> after the ATO started.

That's "one-engine TAO" for Transatlantic Abort.  Should they lose a second
engine before that call, they'd get very wet.  But I'd rather be in a shuttle
orbiter landing on the ocean surface than in an airliner.
--
Roger Noe

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Abort to Orbit
Date: 2 Aug 85 18:21:25 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

NASA is looking at flight refuelling for the shuttle-carrier 747, in fact,
because there are some possible emergency landing sites which are not
within 747+shuttle range of another airport.  Aborting a polar-orbit launch
from Vandenberg, for example, you end up on one of a few small islands way
the hell out in the Pacific.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!linus!utzoo!henry
From: utzoo!henry (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 2 Aug 85 19:04:44 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

> >Uh, wrong.  The atmosphere is far from 100% O2.  Remember the
> >accident that killed four astronauts?  That was the last time
> >pure O2 was used, and that was many years ago.
> 
>     That was the last time O2 was used at full atmospheric pressure.
> I had been under the impression that afterwards, on launch they
> used 80% nitrogen & 20% oxygen. The mixture then reduced to pure
> oxygen at much lower pressure during boost phase.

More specifically, the Apollo flights all started out with the cabin
full of 80/20 mix and the astronauts breathing pure oxygen (through
either oxygen masks or their spacesuits, not sure which).  The cabin
atmosphere changed to pure oxygen during boost.  The astronauts had
to be breathing pure oxygen from the start to avoid decompression
problems.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!im4u!bradley
From: im4u!bradley
Subject: Re: Chile Agrees to Provide Easter Island for Emergency Landings
Date: 4 Aug 85 20:05:07 GMT
Reply-To: bradley@im4u.UUCP (David K. Bradley)
Organization: U. Texas CS Dept., Austin, Texas
Summary: Heads in Danger?

In article <4102@alice.UUCP> alb@alice.UUCP (Adam L. Buchsbaum) writes:
>The U.S. and Chile today signed an eight year pact under which
>Chile will allow NASA to modify the runway on Easter Island for
>use in case of an emergency shuttle landing there.  

A while back someone posted an article stating that the giant heads on Easter
Island would be in danger if the runway on the island was extended.  Does 
anybody know if this is still true?

-- 
David K. Bradley  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Science Department, The University of Texas at Austin
bradley@ut-sally.UUCP      {ihnp4,harvard,gatech,ctvax,seismo}!ut-sally!bradley
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!hplabs!sdcrdcf!markb
From: sdcrdcf!markb (Mark Biggar)
Subject: Re:  Tropics
Date: 31 Jul 85 16:37:20 GMT
Reply-To: markb@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Mark Biggar)
Organization: System Development Corp. R+D, Santa Monica

In article <2849@mordor.UUCP> @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC.ARPA:mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley writes:
>	Incidentally, the world shifted to the Gregorian calendar at varying
>times.  The Roman Catholic world did it first, in the 16th Century -- but
>that was after the Schism, and so England didn't follow suit.  For 200 years
>England's calendar trailed the European by first 9, then 10, then 11 days.
>England finally converted in the mid-18th Century, to riots (11 days were
>dropped from the calendar at the stroke of a pen).  Russia converted after
>the Bolshevik revolution; this is why the "October revolution" was really
>held, by Western calendars, in November.

The British changeover (here to as we were still colonies) happened in
1752 (try running "cal 1752" and looking at Sep).  If I had been there
I would have rioted too.  People didn't object to the dropping of the
days form the calandar, what they objected to was that all the landlords
were charging a full months rent for Sep even though it was 11 days short.

Mark Biggar
{allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,akgua,sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!markb

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Re: Shuttle Engine Starting
Date: 3 Aug 85 16:28:56 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The sparks you see are to ignite any hydrogen that may have leaked
before ignition.  The engines each have their own ignition system;
they ignite separately, 120 milliseconds apart, in the computer
controlled sequence.  They do not ignite again after launch because
(1) there is no more fuel left once in orbit and (2) the main
engines are not designed to be reignited.  The solids, too, have
their own ignition devices.  The solid fuel is basically an aluminum
powder.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!hplabs!utah-cs!b-davis
From: utah-cs!b-davis (Brad Davis)
Subject: Re: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 2 Aug 85 15:56:23 GMT
Reply-To: b-davis@utah-cs.UUCP (Brad Davis)
Organization: University of Utah VCIS Group

In article <65@ssc-vax.UUCP>:
>The current space program uses a 100% O2 atmosphere.  If you lit a
>flame in such an atmosphere, would all the dust and other random
>particles ignite in the presence of the flame?
>
>In article <1816@aecom.UUCP> werner@aecom.UUCP (Craig Werner) writes:
>>	You'd have to ask the Russians. As long as the Americans use a pure
>>Oxygen atmosphere (they did thru Skylab, and I believe they still do), this
>>is one experiment that is not going to be done on the shuttle.
>
>I thought we stopped using 100%  O2  after  the  Apollo  13  disaster.  Can
>someone confirm the current state of such?
>

Are you sure about this?  At the beginning of the Apollo program
we were using close to a 100% O2 atmosphere (90+%) and lost 3 
astronauts during a test when a fire swept through the capsule.  
(I think it was Apollo 3.)  NASA decided that they might have 
been saved had the atmosphere been less O2.  I think that the 
Russians used a He - O2 mixture at the time.  I also think that 
NASA changed after that.  

A 100% O2 mixture would burn the astronauts lungs.  The biggest 
reason for using a high concentration of O2 is that the pressure
of the cabin can be kept lower, simplifing sealing the cabin.
-- 

			Brad Davis
			{ihnp4, decvax, seismo}!utah-cs!b-davis
			b-davis@utah-cs.ARPA

------------------------------

From: <crash!usiiden!markf@Nosc>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 85 20:36:11 PDT
To: crash!noscvax!space@mit-mc
Subject: Spacelab Newsconference


Science News Conference - Spacelab 2 Tuesday 7/30 *Ron Lester: I'll start by giving you a brief status of theSpacelab systems. I'll talk briefly about each of theexperiments. I'll also discuss the mission planning thatwe're doing for perhaps some additional time on the PDP(Note: Ejectable Plasma Diagnostic Package usesinstruments on a subsatellite to study plasma processes).The Spacelab systems were activated pretty much on time.The backup computer, which is now serving as the experimentcomputer came up on

 schedule and its been performingflawlessly. We've had two drop offs of the DDU's (note:don't know what this is), we had a similar situation onSpacelab 3. The instrument pointing system, we've got itup, we have had difficulty with the optical sensingpackage  - turning the package onto the Sun in the fineguided mode (note: The SOUP or Solar Magnetic And VelocityField Measurement System will observe the strength,structure, and evolution of magnetic fields in the solaratmosphere and determine the relationship

 between thesemagnetic elements and other solar features). I'll tell youlater about some of the trouble shooting activitiesassociated with that. We are convinced by the fact that theCoronal Helium Experiments (Note: CHASE, the coronal heliumabundance spacelab exp will accurately determine the heliumabundance of the Sun) was able to, operating within thecontrol loop of the IPS (instrument pointing system) was infact able to acquire the Sun, and in fact, he's got data,and as a matter of fact, tommorrow morni

ng will get some ofthe data that they have already obtained. With respect tothe physics experiment, the optical polarimeter (Note:SOUP), we do have a problem with the pilot system. The guysare still trouble shooting it, both here (Houston) andback at Lockheed. But currently, it is not operating, itdid come up and operate for some 15 minutes, but it droppedoff line and to date we have not been successful withtrouble shooting approaches. But the guys are working onit, the IPS is not due back up until one day

 14. TheCoronal Helium Exp. has been taking data, even from thedegraded mode of the instruments on the system. The HighResolution Telescope (Note: HRTS Solar Ultraviolet HighResolution Telescope studies features in the Sun's outerlayers; the chromosphere, the corona, and the transitionzone between them) has yet to start taking data, it hascompleted its checkout. He did have a heater fail on it, hedeactivated the system, we really don't anticipate thatca
using a problem once we get operational. He will be uptommorrow when we reactivate the IPS and we fully expectthat he will operate. I'll discuss later some of theconsequences of not being able to get the optical sensingpackage up and operating. We feel we can still obtain thescience on the solar experiment by the use of the HRTSexperiment. The ITS (?) is stowed now, so obviously has notbeen taking data now. PDP (Plasma Diagnosics Package) hasbeen activated, it continually takes data .. we did firethe elect

ron generator (Note: the PDP can be placed nearvehicle surfaces to measure changes in the Shuttle'selectrical charge as a generator emits an electron beam)and the plasma diagnostic people did pick up the results.On the Plasma Depletion Experiment (Note: thisinvestigation uses the Shuttle as an active experimentalprobe to create artificial "holes" in the ionosphere.Ground observatories use radio and optics to study theplasma characteristics and conduct radio astronomicalstudies through them) we've had two s

uccessful burns, oneover Milstone, the other over Areceibo in Puerto Rico. Weoriginally had some seven burns or so scheduled. Based onsome very recent data we've got, it looks like we may beable to re-instate some of those burns. The cosmic rayexperiment (Note: CRNE Elemental Compositon and EnergySpectra of Cosmic Ray Nuclei Between 50 GeV/ nucleon andseveral TeV/ nucleon - to study the composition of highenergy cosmic rays by using a large instrument exposed tospace for a considerable period of time) star

ted takingdata almost immediately and has continued to take data. Itoperates in somewhat of a passive mode. The X-Ray telescope(Note: XRT Hard X-Ray Imaging of Clusters of Galaxies andOther Extended X-Ray Sources - the goal of thisinvestigation is to image and examine the X-ray emissionsfrom clusters of galaxies in order to study the mechanismsthat cause high temperature emissions and to determine theweight of galactic clusters) is up and running. And I guesshe's quite happy, for the next 16 hrs. he can op

eratewithout the place and avoidance (?) being invoked which isprotection between the X-Ray telescope and InstrumentPointing System when they operate simultaneously. But sinceIPS is in the gimbal lock, he is unrestricted and will betaking data for the next 16 hrs. The X-Ray telescopechecked their drive systems. The Helium experiment (Note:Properties of Superfluid Helium in Zero Gravity - todetermine the fluid and thermal properties of superfluidhelium, 
to advance scientific understanding of superfluidand normal liquid helium, and to demonstrate the use ofsuperfluid helium as a cryogen in zero gravity). That's theexperiment that just prior to launch on July 4th, we had tomake a decision to de-activate a pump, it started leakingoil in the cargo bay, we would have probably lost theexperiment had we launched on the 12th. So that's a plusfor the delay. The Plant Growth Unit (PGU - to determinethe effect of microgravity upon the production of lignin inhigher p

lants) which is in the middeck, it pretty much doesits own thing. The crew periodically monitors temperaturesand some other measurements. The vitamin B experiment andcrystal growth experiment are on-going. That's pretty muchthe status of the experiments. With the exception of thepolarimeter experiment, the team is elated with how thingsare going. * We have also been told that we have some 1400lbs of propellant (more than we thought) and this makes asignificant differences as to what we can do. Variousoptio

ns are being looked at, at this time. Most like use isfor one of the three originally planned fly arounds withthe PDP. This will make two fly arounds. Raising thealtitude is unlikely since the amount of surplus fuel wouldbe unlikely to contribute to the science being obtained.The experiment most effected by the altitude is the coronalhelium experiment. But he has obtained some very good dataat the altitude he's working at. Obviously, we're lookingat a full duration mission.

------------------------------

From: <crash!usiiden!markf@Nosc>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 85 20:58:38 PDT
To: crash!noscvax!space@mit-mc
Subject: Shuttle News Conference


Shuttle Spacelab Orbit News Conference 8/1During the last shift, we were wrapping up, what we callPDP POCCs operation, where we go out and actually flyaround the PDP. We flew around it twice, we got a lot ofscience data that we'll talk to you about later. We linedup the orbiter and the PDP on the magnetic lines of theEarth. The crew did an excellent job in doing that, thepropellant used was nominal, it was below 1 sigma, we camevery close to the place that we wanted to hit, and the crewcommented that they 

actually could see the electron gunwhen it was fired travelling up and hitting the PDP. Wewent back and picked it up, it is now parked out over thewing of the orbitter garthering more data. We picked upsome more science data using CCFD (crew control free drift)and I believe we're trying to point three differentfacillities all at the same time within a little bandwithout firing any jets. And we've worked up a program onthe ground that basically lets the orbitter take a look andsee where it was over the Eart

h, see what kind of forceswould be acting up on it, so that the crew could then takethose forces and start the orbitter in motion away, and asthe forces acted on the orbitter, then come back through ina dead band that was big enough to get all the targets thatthe science people wanted without actually firing the jets.And they got science readings for about 15 1/2 minuteswithout any jet firings and were able to get real goodobservations. With respect to IPS (instrument pointingunit) really all of it is tied

 up in initial acquisitionand it deals with sun intensity and it also has a bearingon the fact that we take the star tracker and break thesun's image up into four different images, and reverse thepolarity, and we use that to focus the sun, so we need toknow the diameter of the sun, and make intensity typecomputations, and determine the offset pointing that weneed for the tracker. Since yesterday, we've taken a lookat more data, and as a matter of fact, we've loaded somecheckout software into the IPS, gathe

red more data by theuse of that checkout software, and the guys at Marshallhave taken a look at that data, and they think that data isgood. We're in the process of developing a couple of morepatches in the IPS which is determining the atitudedetermination, so that we will have a better chance ofacquiring and the other is to change some more callibrationdata that is on-board. We will probably load this packagelater today. We're also looking at raising th
e orbit somemore, that is in the work now. It probably wouldn't be fora day or so. ** As you may recall, after liftoff we lostthe computer redundancy. We have since not experienced anydifficulties (with the computer) whatsoever, and we havealternate means of compensating for any difficulty duringthe flight. We're quite pleased with the performance ofSpacelab so far, there's the fundamental system, thecomputers, all the mechanical systems, the thermocontrolsystems, have performed completely nominally, they'

veperformed just as expected. We have run into to only onemajor problem, that is the IPS in the fine pointing mode(note: the IPS has been repaired since this report waslogged). The IPS is working in an alternate mode which wasdesigned into the IPS. To use an experiment sensorsubstitute mode, that is we take a sensor that is rotatedand provided by the instrument, tie it into the IPS controlsystem, set it in a closed loop, and point in that fashion.This alternate mode of operation gives us good pointing ands

tability. The problem that we have run into is isolated tothe optical sensor package, that is a sensor that looks atthe sun, the other two sensors are looking off to the sideacquiring stars. What we are seeing in the sun trackingmode, is it acquires nicely, just as programs - down to therough tracking mode, it then starts toward isolating andcentering in on the sun, and its going towards the finetracking mode which gives the very fine pointing accuracy.Just as we get to the fine pointing part, just as wetr

ansition from rough to fine, we see that an error existsout of the star tracker into a software filter that'slocated in the subsystem computer. It immediately recognizean error some what beyond its control authority, andimmediately kicks us back into the rough pointing. When weuse sensor substitution mode, we come right into finetracking, so we're continuing troubleshooting... We'retrying to trouble shoot this problem without impacting theuseful science being obtained in the sensor substitionmode. Now I'll

 give a summary of the science of the lastday, we began to see real time television interviews fromthe high resolution telescope and spectograph instrument,being used in the sensor substitution mode on theinstrument pointing system. He's getting better than twoarc seconds pointing stability in this mode... Secondinteresting thing was the spectacular fly around of theplasma diagnostics package and its recovery. And the jointobserving that was done during
 operations between theplasma diagnostics package and the vehicle charging andpotential experiment. The PDP has been recaptured and isnow in a standby mode taking data off to the side of theorbiter. Third was the first scientific operation of theinfared telescope. The scanning of the sky with the Shuttlein the XDV (?) mode, with the shuttle essentially as anairplane with the payload bay directly away from the Earth.Experiment 8, the SOUP has not yet been turned on. TheCHASE experiment, continues to operate

 very well. Exp 10,the High Resolution Telescope have continued to take gooddata of the hydrogen alpha that come down directly on thetelevision and can also be used by the crew and allow thecrew to point automatic systems. The crew control freedrift mode provides the best pointing stability, becausethere are no thruster firings to change the atitude duringthose operations. When we're on automatic thruster atitudecontrol, sometimes the bumbing of the vernier thrusterscauses the control to jump to a few more

 arc seconds, 4 to5 arc seconds, and so its clear the cruise control freedrift mode is a very good one for investigators. Experiment11 continues to take spectra. It still has a thermalproblem being evaluated in the hot orbit data facing theSun. HRTS did have a thermal problem, it seems to havecleared up. The Plasma Diagnostics Package, all theinstruments continue to operate very well. They havebeautiful display systems providing the data in colorvideo, in real time. The vehicle charging and potentialexperi

ment has fired the electron generator a number oftimes, the crew has seen the beam  being produced, and atone time saw it travelling out along the magnetic fieldlines of the Earth, which at that time was connecting theorbiter with the PDP. The Plasma Depletion Experiment doesnot have any more engine firing schedules during thisimmediate period. Cosmic Ray Nuclei experiment had aproblem yesterday with its on board computer processor. Itwent down at a time when the count rate was very high, andthe radiation 

levels may have been a bit high and at thetime we were in the plasma diagnostic fly around mode, sothere was no way to get commands up to the cosmic raynuclei experiment to reconfigure it and turn it back on.That has since been accomplished, and the instrument isback up and running. Infared telescope (exp 5) began togather data yesterday for the first time, all of theinstrument systems seem to be working very well. There areseveral wavelength bands in t
he detection system, the highand low wavelength bands are operating very well. We aregoing to be able to map the sky in the 2 to 3 micrometerinfrared wavelength band and the 4.5 to 9.5 micrometerwavelength bands and gather maps of the sky that were notpossible in the Infared Astronomical Satellite program.These wavelengths were not included on IRAS, so this willbe new infrared map data. The middle channels of theInfared telescope are seeing a very high, very brightbackground, and we're just now trying to u

nderstand theorigin of that signal, we will be doing perhaps someadditional maneuvers of the orbitter and using differentscan directions, try to resolve the source. The heliumexperiment continues to operate very well. X-ray telescopecontinuing to gather solid data. Looking primarily at thePerseus cluster of X-ray emitting gas and also had anopportunity to look at the crab nebulae which is acalibration source for them. Just looked at it briefly andfound that the intensities that their instruments saw werees

sentially exactly as they had anticipated, indicating thesensitivity of the instrument is right on design. They havea viewing camera which provides them with a reading ofexactly where they're pointed on the sky. The visual imageis put into their digital data stream and brought down tothe ground for processing. The camera has had a fewproblems, it turns itself off occassionally. It also hassome kind of contamination on its lens. Without thatcamera, they have a back up photo camera which can alsoprovide the 

data they need. But it is limited on the amountof real time analysis possible. But the accuracy of theirdata has not been impaired. The Vitamin D metaboliseexperiment continues. Samples have been taken and put inthe freezer and samples will be taken again at the end ofthe mission. Plant growth unit has been monitoredphotographically. The crystal growth experiment wasmonitored operationally.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!timeinc!phri!roy
From: phri!roy (Roy Smith)
Subject: Re: Answer to: What do you call the "blockhouse" now?
Date: 3 Aug 85 14:58:01 GMT
Organization: Public Health Research Inst. (NY, NY)

> there is an excellent article in a recent issue of the Annuals of
> Computing on NASA space computers.  It mentions the use of magnetic tape
> drives at a time when everybody else is using disk drives.
> --eugene miya

	If you are interested in the subject of space computers, take a
look at CACM, Vol 27, #9 (Sept 1984).  To quote from "The Space Shuttle
Primary Computer System" by Spector and Gifford in that issue (copyright
(C) 1984 by The Association for Computing Machinery, Inc.):

	AS. Is the memory core?

	Macina.  Yes, it's ferrite core.  By today's standards it seems
	outdated, but it does have certain advantages; for instance, it's
	inherently nonvolatile when power is removed.

	I believe core is also much less sensitive to cosmic radiation etc.
than semiconductor memory is.  Surprisingly enough, the on-board computers
are rather non-impressive in terms of computing power; the standard cpu on
the shuttle is about a 1/2 MIPS machine.  They are designed not to be fast,
but to be non-crashable.  You cretins arguing SysV vs. 4.2 for better
stability will notice that neither system is used on the shuttle. :-)
-- 
Roy Smith <allegra!phri!roy>
System Administrator, Public Health Research Institute
455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!prls!amdimage!amdcad!amd!pesnta!lsuc!utcs!mnetor!fred
From: mnetor!fred (Fred Williams)
Subject: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 2 Aug 85 14:02:07 GMT
Reply-To: fred@mnetor.UUCP (Fred Williams)
Organization: Computer X (CANADA) Ltd., Toronto, Ontario, Canada

In article <440@olivee.UUCP> gnome@olivee.UUCP (Gary Traveis) writes:
(from somebody.)...
>> The current space program uses a 100% O2 atmosphere.  If you lit a
>> flame in such an atmosphere, would all the dust and other random
>> particles ignite in the presence of the flame?
>> 
>
>Uh, wrong.  The atmosphere is far from 100% O2.  Remember the
>accident that killed four astronauts?  That was the last time
>pure O2 was used, and that was many years ago.

    That was the last time O2 was used at full atmospheric pressure.
I had been under the impression that afterwards, on launch they
used 80% nitrogen & 20% oxygen. The mixture then reduced to pure
oxygen at much lower pressure during boost phase.  In the past few
days there have been several postings declaring an O2-N2 mixture is
standard throughout shuttle flights. This could very well be the case.
I could be out of date. 
    Regardless, the risk of fire from a candle experiment would not
be increased by the shuttle air. I don't think.

Cheers,		Fred Williams

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!prls!amdimage!amdcad!amd!pesnta!hplabs!sdcrdcf!markb
From: sdcrdcf!markb (Mark Biggar)
Subject: Re: Abort to Orbit
Date: 2 Aug 85 16:36:37 GMT
Reply-To: markb@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Mark Biggar)
Organization: System Development Corp. R+D, Santa Monica

In article <2243@amdcad.UUCP> mike@amdcad.UUCP (Mike Parker) writes:
>I seem to remember that the range of the 747-shuttle piggyback
>combination is only about 1000 miles. If they ever do abort to
>Rota, Spain how do they get the damned thing back to the USA

How about:
Spain -> England -> Norway -> Reykjavik, Iceland -> Labrador -> Home free
Any place you can land and take-off a C5 Galaxy military transport can
handle NASA 909 with shuttle.

or

Drag it to dock, use cargo hoists to put it on air-craft carrier, sail home.

or

Read "Shuttle Down" by Corry, where they have to get a shuttle back
from Easter Island.  Which they now have to plan for, as they have
just signed a treaty with Chile allowing the use of Easter Island as
an emergency landing sight for Vandenburd polar shuttle launches.
Boeing appearently has plans for mid-air fueling equiptment for 747s.

Mark Biggar
{allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,akgua,sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!markb

------------------------------

From: <crash!usiiden!markf@Nosc>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 85 22:45:23 PDT
To: crash!noscvax!space@mit-mc
Subject: Spacelab News Conference


Spacelab News Conference 8/5/85Flight Director Al Pennington and Mission Manager RoyLuftkin (sp ?) - Another good day for the orbitter inspace, systems continue to perform flawlessly. We'resitting at about a 174 by 164 orbit and we've accomplishedour last waste dump and coming up on the last water dumpfor the supply later on today. We're headed towards anorbit 126 de-orbit, around 7 days, 21 hr 42 min and 40seconds. We're headed for a landing at Edwards AF Base.Currently targeted for runway 17 with a landi

ng at 7 days22 hrs 45 min 24 seconds. The latest weather predictionsfor Edwards AF Basetoday are scattered clouds, very light winds ... allwithing in the limits prescribed on the vehicle and ofcourse we have the option to go in with a lot of runwaysthere at Edwards. All efforts will be made to keep the windon our normal, below the ten mile limit. There are noplanned cross wind EVO's this time.With the rough start we had on Spacelab, we've had somereally great science this time. To give you an idea, wesent 

some 12000 commands (Spacelab 1 was around 8000), sowe have far exceeded the commanding on Spacelab 1. Some1.25 trillion bits of data has been received, 45 hours ofvideo, 230 miles of tape. Even with the rough start that wehad at the beginning, we got in orbit with significantlyless fuel then we premission had planned to use for thepayload. We certainly met all the objectives of the PDP. Wegot at least half of the burns through dedicated effort ofthe of the ... people. We did get half of the burns for thep

lasma depletion experiment, and with all the effort backat HOOC especially the IPS people ... especially the dataon the optical sensor package with all its difficulties. Wereally had two objectives on Spacelab 2, the first was theverification part of the flight, which was met 100%. Andthe Spacelab systems have performed flawlessly. We were abit concerned, lifting off without the redundant computer.Fortunately, there was not a single glitch. ... to me whatscience is all about is the kind of recovery that to

okplace on this mission. Going over the individualexperiments, plasma hole burns got some excellent data; thecosmic ray experiment is still running and will until powerdown; there were some 10 to 12 drop outs of the PDP but hequickly developed a procedure to recover in around 5 min.We'll work on the cause of the drop outs post mission. TheHRT since yesterday has been mainly monitoring theproduction of super fluid helium on orbit; the infa redtelescope i
s still operating and will for the remainder ofthe mission, we hoped to get 25 hrs on that experiment andwe've at least doubled that. The super fluid heliumexperiment ran out of helium last night as was expected. Wehave one more blood draw for exp 1. Plant growth wasobviously thrilled by the extra day. SOUP is getting reallyoutstanding data. That particular instrument has imagemotion compensation, he can compensate for disturbances onthe IPS. He's getting indications that he's stable within1/10 th of an ar

c sec., 300 KM on the surface of the sun.He had to do a lot of calibrationsquickly to get to the point that he is now, takingscientific data. CHASE is still up and operating onoccassion still using their sun sensors. HRTS is down. Theyused all the film they had on board. PDP got well over 100%of expected data. The HRTS film is extremely sensitive totime and temperature, platforms will be built to remove thefilm and put them in the refrigerator. That should takeplace 24 to 48 hrs after landing. The major ch

ange is goingin and getting the film out.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!fluke!ssc-vax!eder
From: ssc-vax!eder (Dani Eder)
Subject: Re: Orphaned Response
Date: 2 Aug 85 19:25:10 GMT
Organization: Boeing Aerospace Co., Seattle, WA

> 
>  
> There has been at least one helicopter with two primary rotors and no
> tail rotor.  Whether the two primaries (one fore, one aft) were counter-
> rotating or not, I don't know.  I also don't know its official designa-
> tion, but it looked like a flying banana with a rotor at each end, and
> no tail rotor.  It was in service in 1958, and quite possibly much
> earlier.

     The XHRP-1 'Flying Banana' first flew in 1947, and led off a whole series
of counter-rotating propeller helicopters built by the Boeing Company.
Currently we produce the CH-47D 'Chinook' helicopter, used by the US Army,
and a commercial version called the 234.  The model 234 does things like
fly people to offshore oil rigs.

     Our helicopters are made in Philadelphia, PA by the Boeing Vertol
Company, which employs about 5000 people.

     Dani Eder/Boeing Aerospace Company/ Advanced Space Transportation 
-

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-scotty!fisher
From: fisher@scotty.DEC (Burns Fisher, MRO3-1/E13, DTN 231-4108.)
Subject: Difference between 0g and immersion
Date: 5 Aug 85 13:49:36 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

<...>

I should think that the main difference (besides the density of water
or amneotic fluid) would be that the INSIDE of the body would feel no
difference between a 1g and a floating environment.  In other words, the
body's relationship to the outside world is more like 0g, but stuff inside
is still hanging from its connection point at 1g.

Burns


	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!petsd!peora!jer
From: peora!jer (J. Eric Roskos)
Subject: Re: Answer to: What do you call the "blockhouse" now?
Date: 4 Aug 85 03:24:05 GMT
Organization: Perkin-Elmer SDC, Orlando, Fl.

> It mentions the use of magnetic tape drives at a time when
> everybody else is using disk drives.

I saw a cost analysis on this awhile back.  Its conclusion was that for
most of NASA's computers-in-space functions, the magnetic media only have
to be sequential-access devices; and that the cost-per-bit of magnetic
tape is enormously smaller than for disk.  Thus, the use of the magnetic
tapes.
-- 
Shyy-Anzr:  J. Eric Roskos
UUCP:       ..!{decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!vax135!petsd!peora!jer
US Mail:    MS 795; Perkin-Elmer SDC;
	    2486 Sand Lake Road, Orlando, FL 32809-7642

	    "Vg frrzf yvxr hc gb zr."

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #231
*******************

07-Aug-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #232    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 232

Today's Topics:
			 Mission Extended One Day
		       Re: Shuttle News Conference
		   Re: Columbia's Tiled Damaged by Rain
			 Telescope Comes to Life
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Mission Extended One Day
Date: 4 Aug 85 16:21:01 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

Saying that the astronauts have conserved enough fuel to maintian
a two-day contingency supply required by mission rules, NASA
yesterday extended the flight of the Challenger by one day to
give the crwe more time to gather data.  The new landing time
is a little after noon on Tuesday.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!teddy!rdp
From: teddy!rdp
Subject: Re: Shuttle News Conference
Date: 6 Aug 85 14:59:22 GMT
Reply-To: rdp@teddy.UUCP (Richard D. Pierce)
Organization: GenRad, Inc., Concord, Mass.

In article <2968@mordor.UUCP> markf%Nosc@usiiden.ARPA writes:
>From: <crash!usiiden!markf@Nosc>
>


Whoever is submitting these articles in this form:


>
>Shuttle Spacelab Orbit News Conference 8/1During the last shift, we were wrapping up, what we callPDP POCCs operation, where we go out and actually flyaround the PDP. We flew around it twice, we got a lot ofscience data that we'll talk to you abou

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ittatc!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcc3!sdcc6!calmasd!rfc
From: calmasd!rfc (Robert Clayton)
Subject: Re: Columbia's Tiled Damaged by Rain
Date: 5 Aug 85 20:57:34 GMT
Organization: Calma Company, San Diego, CA

> how interesting!  Columbia's tiles survive atmosphere re-entry only to get
> beat up by a rainstorm (which you'd think would be gentle) coming at it at
> a couple hundred mph.
> -- 
> << Generic disclaimer >>
> Fred Christiansen ("Canajun, eh?") @ Motorola Microsystems, Tempe, AZ
> UUCP:  ihnp4!{attunix, btlunix, drivax, sftig, ut-sally!oakhill}!mot!fred
> ARPA:  oakhill!mot!fred@ut-sally.ARPA             AT&T:  602-438-3472

Do not underestimate the power of any massive particles in a high
velocity fluid stream.  Commercial sand blasters operate at 60 mph and
are used to remove heavy corrosion from steel and to erode stone
surfaces in buildings.  Shotblasters operate at 100 mph and are used
for shotpeening metal parts - a work hardening process used to
strengthen steel castings and forgings.  In the last century, hydraulic
mining was used to wash away mountain slopes to expose pay dirt in
California's gold country.  These hydraulic cannons can be seen today
along the roadside set up as historical monuments.  They are the size
of field artillery pieces.   From the look of them, it is unlikely they
would have operated above 50 mph.  Extensive flumes and aquaducts were
built to channel the water to them.  Hydraulic mining is used today to
mine iron ores.

A several hundred mph blast of water is extremely destructive.
Fortunately in a storm the water is dispersed, but I suspect it compares
to a sand blaster in terms of destructive potential.

Today, commercially available cutting tools use high pressure water
jets to cut steel plates 6 inches thick.  Water is not harmless.

Bob Clayton
GE Calma, San Diego R&D
(619) 458-3400

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Telescope Comes to Life
Date: 5 Aug 85 02:57:30 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

One of four telescopes on the Instrument Pointing System, which
had not been working all throughout the Challenger mission, came
to life suddenly today, and ground controllers say they don't know
why.  However, the telescope, designed to measure the suns magnetic
field and the only experiment of the 13 aboard that didn't function,
is working perfectly now.

Meanwhile, Challenger's crew fired the OMS engines today while ground-
based observers studied the exhaust's effect on the ionosphere.

Landing is now set for 1547 EDT, Tuesday.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #232
*******************

11-Aug-85  0357	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #233    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 233

Today's Topics:
		  Latest Keplerian Elements for STS-51F
		     Re: Re: Would a candle burn ...
			    Re: space delivery
			      Abort to Orbit
			      Re:  calendar
			   Re: Nuclear Rockets
			    Re: Space delivery
     Re: Chile Agrees to Provide Easter Island for Emergency Landings
     Re: Chile Agrees to Provide Easter Island for Emergency Landings
			   Two craft up at once
		       Re: Would a candle burn ...
       Gestation (or incubation) in space:  Sooner than you think!
		     Re: Precession of the equinoxes
		     Re: Re: Would a candle burn ...
			     Re: Leap seconds
		      question on shuttle abort    
				  Colas
		Re: Old fashion computing practices @ NASA
		  Old fashion computing practices @ NASA
			Re: Voyager on to Uranus.
			   Landing and Rollout
		  Shuttle Observed on 8/2/85 in Chicago
			Re: Voyager on to Uranus.
		     Re: precession of the equinoxes
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!bellcore!petrus!karn
From: petrus!karn (karn)
Subject: Latest Keplerian Elements for STS-51F
Date: 5 Aug 85 16:23:27 GMT
Organization: At&t Bell Labs, Murray Hill, NJ

Satellite: sts-51f
Catalog number: 0
Epoch time:      85216.77292824
   Sun Aug  4 18:33:00.999 1985 UTC
Element set:     9
Inclination:       49.6108 deg
RA of node:       123.2213 deg
Eccentricity:    0.0012137
Arg of perigee:   335.8996 deg
Mean anomaly:     277.8031 deg
Mean motion:   15.85795180 rev/day
Decay rate:        0.00025 rev/day^2
Epoch rev:              94
Semi major axis:  6693.082 km
Anom period:     90.806178 min
Apogee:            325.129 km
Perigee:           308.882 km
Ref perigee:      2772.78732636
   Sun Aug  4 18:53:44.997 1985 UTC

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!ames!moose
From: ames!moose (Mary Kaiser)
Subject: Re: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 6 Aug 85 21:20:29 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

> > > ... in space?
> 
> 	You'd have to ask the Russians. As long as the Americans use a pure
> Oxygen atmosphere (they did thru Skylab, and I believe they still do), this
> is one experiment that is not going to be done on the shuttle.
> 
> -- 
> 				Craig Werner
> 				!philabs!aecom!werner
> 		"The world is just a straight man for you sometimes"

*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR TWO CENTS WORTH ***
Actually, the astronauts on Skylab attempted to use some conventional
(i.e. no forced-air) gas burners to perform some mineral studies.  The
burners apparently kept going out.  I don't know about the wax melting
stuff...too low tech for NASA's taste I guess.  Now water bubbles....

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!ames!moose
From: ames!moose (Mary Kaiser)
Subject: Re: space delivery
Date: 6 Aug 85 21:28:35 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

> In article <319@baylor.UUCP> peter@baylor.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes:
> >Wouldn't the calcium deficiency noted in free fall SERIOUSLY harm the fetus (who
> >can't use a treadmill, or would the mother's exercising serve?)?
> 
>     Since the fetus is floating anyway, prior to birth, there would
> not likely be any effect to being additionally weightless.
> 
> Cheers,		Fred Williams

*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR BEST GUESS ***

Sorry folks, but neutral buoyancy *ain't* the same as 0-G, especially
as far as your internal organs are concerned (see "The Forever Wars").
Personally, I think this little bambino is going to have a lot of
trouble in terms of proper fetal develop, since much of bone growth
(i.e. calcium layering) is gravity dependent.  Ditto for other developmental
processes.  On earth, a fetus/embryo may be floating, but gravity is still
playing an important role in physiological development.

COMING SOON......"SPACE MUTANTS!"

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!noao!amd!tc
From: amd!tc (Tom Crawford)
Subject: Abort to Orbit
Date: 6 Aug 85 13:46:48 GMT
Organization: AMD Applications, Santa Clara, CA

Here are paragraphs from an article in Aug 5 Aviation Week.  These are
reproduced without permission.

Abort-to-Orbit Incident Will Intensify Shuttle Engine Procedure Reviews

Johnson Space Center-  The premature shutdown of one of the shuttle
orbiter Challenger's main engines that forced an abort to orbit last
week was caused by a temperature sensor failure in the Rocketdyne engine
rather that an actual problem with the propulsion system, shuttle managers
believe.

...

Lead ascent flight director Cleon Lacefield said a reexamination of data
indicates that, had the second engine failed at a time when abnormal
sensor readings were occurring in it, Challenger could still have 
achieved a safe but tenuous orbit.  A second engine failure, however, would
have caused the shuttle's 39-ton Martin Marietta external tank to fall on
populated areas of Europe somewhere along a line stretching across central
France, Switzerland, south of Milan or near Athens.
...
<There is a fairly long "time sequence of events" which I omit>

5 min. 55 sec.  Fullerton, piloting Challenger, rotated a switch on the 
instrument panel to the abort ATO position, then pushed an ajoining
abort command button.  This told the orbiter's computers that ATO
procedures were now required.  It immediately ignited Challenger's
two Aerojet orbital maneuvering engines to dump 4,400 lbs. of OMS
propellant so the remaining main engine thrust could be used more
efficiently.

6 min - For 106 sec. Challenger's two OMS engines fired along with the
two remaining main engines.  The OMS engines provided an additional
12,000 lb. of thrust, but this was incidental to the abort situation.
The requirement was to dump OMS propellant to lighten the load.

......

8 min. 12 sec.  Howard at the booster console saw sensors on the right
main engine, one of two still firing, start to act improperly.  She
first saw the B-side fuel pump temperature sensor fail on the right
engine, the same failure that started the center engine's problems....

8 min 45 sec  Lacefield had Richards radio Challenger, "Main engine
limits to inhibit," an emergency call to prevent the second engine
from failing if the temperature sensor data climbed higher.  Fullerton
immediately flipped a switch on the console, canceling out the
protective circuitry in the engines that could have shut down the
engines.

<Sound pretty exciting to me>

			Tom Crawford
			...amd!tc

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!cybvax0!frog!john
From: frog!john (John Woods)
Subject: Re:  calendar
Date: 6 Aug 85 15:44:52 GMT
Organization: Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA

> From: mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley (Rick McGeer)
> 
> 	Yea.  We have a leap second periodically to even out the flaws in
> the Gregorian calendar.  Just had one this year, in fact.
> 
> 					Rick.

If I understand correctly, the leap seconds are not to correct the calendar,
but are to correct for the slowing of the earth with respect to the atomic
clocks.  Leap seconds are added whenever the mood strikes the people who
wind the atoms :-), not according to a fixed plan.


--
John Woods, Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA, (617) 626-1101
...!decvax!frog!john, ...!mit-eddie!jfw, jfw%mit-ccc@MIT-XX.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!ptsfa!well!micropro!kepler!mojo
From: kepler!mojo (Morris Jones)
Subject: Re: Nuclear Rockets
Date: 5 Aug 85 06:26:55 GMT
Reply-To: mojo@kepler.UUCP (mojo)
Organization: MicroPro Int'l Corp., San Rafael, CA

Does anyone have a vague idea of what kind of G forces the crew of a
nuclear rocket a la Footfall would be subjected to?  Missing data
from the book includes the mass (inertia) of the Archangel, and the
size of the bombs used to propel it.  I kept thinking during the book
that we were talking bone-crushing acceleration here -- especially
from a ground launch.
-- 
Mojo
... Morris Jones, MicroPro Product Development
{dual,ptsfa,hplabs}!well!micropro!kepler!mojo

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!ihnp4!drutx!slb
From: drutx!slb (Sue Brezden)
Subject: Re: Space delivery
Date: 5 Aug 85 15:58:17 GMT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Denver

> Wouldn't the calcium deficiency noted in free fall SERIOUSLY harm the 
> fetus (who can't use a treadmill, or would the mother's exercising serve?)?
>

I would be more inclined to worry about the mother.  It is hard
enough to keep a calcium balance during pregnancy on earth.  In
space you have two things robbing your calcium:  the baby and the
lack of gravity.

-- 

                                     Sue Brezden
                                     
Real World: Room 1B17                Net World: ihnp4!drutx!slb
            AT&T Information Systems
            11900 North Pecos
            Westminster, Co. 80234
            (303)538-3829 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        Your god may be dead, but mine aren't.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!sesame!slerner
From: sesame!slerner (Simcha-Yitzchak Lerner)
Subject: Re: Chile Agrees to Provide Easter Island for Emergency Landings
Date: 5 Aug 85 13:44:38 GMT
Organization: Lotus Development Corp

> In article <4102@alice.UUCP> alb@alice.UUCP (Adam L. Buchsbaum) writes:
> >The U.S. and Chile today signed an eight year pact under which
> >Chile will allow NASA to modify the runway on Easter Island for
> >use in case of an emergency shuttle landing there.  
> 
> A while back someone posted an article stating that the giant heads on Easter
> Island would be in danger if the runway on the island was extended.  Does 
> anybody know if this is still true?
> 
> -- 
> David K. Bradley  
>

Maybe they'll strain their necks watching all the traffic come and go...

-- 
Opinions expressed are public domain, and do not belong to Lotus
Development Corp.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Simcha-Yitzchak Lerner

              {genrad|ihnp4|ima}!wjh12!talcott!sesame!slerner
                      {cbosgd|harvard}!talcott!sesame!slerner
                                slerner%sesame@harvard.ARPA 

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!sesame!slerner
From: sesame!slerner (Simcha-Yitzchak Lerner)
Subject: Re: Chile Agrees to Provide Easter Island for Emergency Landings
Date: 5 Aug 85 14:59:57 GMT
Organization: Lotus Development Corp


[]
[If this is a duplicate, sorry...postnews took a hit 1st time around.]

> In article <4102@alice.UUCP> alb@alice.UUCP (Adam L. Buchsbaum) writes:
> >The U.S. and Chile today signed an eight year pact under which
> >Chile will allow NASA to modify the runway on Easter Island for
> >use in case of an emergency shuttle landing there.  
> 
> A while back someone posted an article stating that the giant heads on Easter
> Island would be in danger if the runway on the island was extended.  Does 
> anybody know if this is still true?
> 
> -- 
> David K. Bradley  
> 

Maybe they are afraid the heads will get stiff necks watching all the
traffic come and go...


-- 
Opinions expressed are public domain, and do not belong to Lotus
Development Corp.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Simcha-Yitzchak Lerner

              {genrad|ihnp4|ima}!wjh12!talcott!sesame!slerner
                      {cbosgd|harvard}!talcott!sesame!slerner
                                slerner%sesame@harvard.ARPA 

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ucbvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-scotty!fisher
From: fisher@scotty.DEC (Burns Fisher, MRO3-1/E13, DTN 231-4108.)
Subject: Two craft up at once
Date: 6 Aug 85 13:38:30 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

<>

re Gemini 6 and Gemini 7:

<Start memory dump>

Gemini 6 was originally planned to do the first (I think) rendezvous and
docking in the US space program.  The target was to be an Agena vehicle which
was to be launched atop an Atlas before Gemini was launched. Gemini 7 was
planned to be a long duration flight (medical experiments?). The Atlas/Agena
never made orbit (don't remember the details of why).  In any case, what they
did was to launch Gemini 7 first.  Then they scurried around like hell to get 
the pad cleaned up and G6 re-erected.  The countdown reached 0 (or wherever the
engines fire on a Titan), the engines burped, and then shutdown (deja vu?).
Turns out someone had forgotten to remove some of those red plastic caps that
say "Not flight hardware--Remove before flight" from someplace on the engines.
In addition, the vibration caused one of the ground connectors to pull out of
the base of the Titan.  Thus the crew got the signal that they had lifted off,
as well as that the engines had shut down.  They came very close to ejecting,
but the commander said later that he did not feel acceleration, and therefore
they could not have lifted off.  Because of that excellent perception, they were
able to lift off and successfully rendezvous with Gemini 7 a few days later.
The dual flight was called "The Spirit of 76".

<End of memory dump>

Burns


	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
From: ttidcc!hollombe (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 7 Aug 85 19:13:09 GMT
Reply-To: hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath)
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1688@mnetor.UUCP> fred@mnetor.UUCP (Fred Williams) writes:
>I had been under the impression that afterwards, on launch they
>used 80% nitrogen & 20% oxygen. The mixture then reduced to pure
>oxygen at much lower pressure during boost phase.  In the past few
>days there have been several postings declaring an O2-N2 mixture is
>standard throughout shuttle flights. This could very well be the case.
>I could be out of date. 

From _The Space Shuttle Operator's Manual_ by  K.M.  Joels,  G.P.  Kennedy,
and D. Larkin, Ballantine Books, 1982, section 2.2, paragraph 2:

"An atmosphere like the earth's is  maintained  in  the  crew  compartment.
Atmospheric  pressure  is  14.7  psi  ...  the  same  as standard sea-level
conditions.  The atmosphere consists of 79% nitorgen and 21% oxygen,  again
very  close  to what you left on earth.  In an emergency, cabin pressure is
reduced to 8.0 psi ..."

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe)
Citicorp TTI                      Common Sense is what tells you that a ten
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.             pound weight falls ten times as fast as a
Santa Monica, CA  90405           one pound weight.
(213) 450-9111, ext. 2483
{philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-scotty!fisher
From: fisher@scotty.DEC (Burns Fisher, MRO3-1/E13, DTN 231-4108.)
Subject: Gestation (or incubation) in space:  Sooner than you think!
Date: 7 Aug 85 14:31:00 GMT
Sender: decwrl!daemon
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

Sorry, I forgot which newsgroup the space pregnancy discussion was going on
in, so I am sending this to both.  It is short.

From the Boston Globe, August 6:

FINGER LICKIN' SPACE.  Two dozen chicken eggs will be aboard a NASA space 
shuttle next year because an intern at Kentucky Fried Chicken headquarters in 
Louisville wants to find out whether chicken embryos can develop under 
weightless conditions.  In a gutsy move the Colonel would have admired, John 
Vellinger sold NASA on the scheme, so Uncle Sam will pay the bill.  "We hope 
this will give us data about the feasibility of rasising chickens as a food 
source in space," says intern John Vellinger, who adds mysteriously "and, 
longer term, whether humans can reproduce in a weightless environment."

Burns


	UUCP:	... {decvax|allegra|ucbvax}!decwrl!rhea!dvinci!fisher

	ARPA:	fisher%dvinci.dec@decwrl.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: 7 Aug 85 17:58:12 PDT (Wednesday)
From: Lynn.ES@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: Precession of the equinoxes
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Lynn.es@Xerox.ARPA

Contrary to previous statements made here, the precession of the
equinoxes IS related to the Gregorian Calendar.  Without precession, the
seasons would reoccur every 365.2564 days (a sidereal year), and thus
occasional EXTRA leap years would be needed to cause the average year to
be more than 365.25 days.  With precession, the seasons reoccur every
365.2422 days, and thus occasional dropped leap years are needed (3 out
of every 4 century years are dropped).  

In other words, the earth reaches the point where its pole points most
nearly toward the sun (beginning of summer) slightly earlier due to
precession (movement of the direction of that pole).  Another way of
viewing it is that our seasons cycle 25,799 times while we make 25,800
trips around the sun, the difference of one being that our axis rotated
once in that time period due to precession.

/Don Lynn

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ittatc!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcc3!sdcc6!ix241
From: sdcc6!ix241 (ix241)
Subject: Re: Re: Would a candle burn ...
Date: 6 Aug 85 14:58:29 GMT
Organization: U.C. San Diego, Academic Computer Center
Summary: .2 atm O2 then; earth normal now

During Apollo and earlier missions NASA always used a reduced pressure
pure oxygen enviroment on missions.  They used full pressure O2 for many
ground tests until the disaster of Apollo 1.

Currently an Earth normal atmosphere is used in the Shuttle.  That is
the reason space walkers have to prebreathe.  The suits use the 4PSI
pure O2 that was used in the older missions.  The main reason for the
reduced pressure, however is to make the suits easier to operate.  Less
work against pressure.

John Testa
UCSD Chemistry
sdcsvax!sdcc6!ix241         

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!prls!amdimage!amdcad!cae780!ubvax!scott
From: ubvax!scott (Scott Scheiman)
Subject: Re: Leap seconds
Date: 5 Aug 85 20:37:09 GMT
Organization: Ungermann-Bass, Inc., Santa Clara, CA

In article <2884@mordor.UUCP>, @S1-A.ARPA,@MIT-MC.ARPA:FRIEDRITR%VAXJ.GATNET.MFENET@LLL-MFE.ARPA writes:
> From: FRIEDRITR%VAXJ.GATNET.MFENET@LLL-MFE.ARPA
> 
> Leap seconds are not to "even out the flaws in the Gregorian
> calendar", especially since we have one only every few years (does anyone
> know how often, on the average?).  Leap seconds keep our precise 24-hour-
> per-day clocks synchronized with the actual rotational period of the Earth,
> which exhibits slight variations.
> 
> Terry
--
Quite a few years back they came only every few years, at midnight
beginning a new year.  Then a year came when they added a leap second at
both ends of the year.  This year we had a leap second added
between June and July (I think).  I don't know why it was added in the
middle of the year this year, but my guess is that we now have to have
more than one leap second added per year and adding two on Jan. 1
(Dec. 31?) would be more disruptive than "smoothing" it out by adding 
them at far ends of the year.
-- 
"Ribbit!"     Scott Scheiman (Beam Me Up, Scotty!)  Industrial Networking, Inc.
 \ /\/@\/@\/\  ..decvax!decwrl!sun!megatest!ubvax!scott    3990 Freedom Circle
  _\ \ -  / /_           (408) 496-0969                 Santa Clara, CA 95050

------------------------------

Date: 07 Aug 85  2237 PDT
From: Ron Goldman <ARG@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: question on shuttle abort    
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

What happened to the shuttle external tank because of the abort to orbit
maneuver?  Did it re-enter over the Indian Ocean as it normally would or
elsewhere?  Anyone know?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 85 06:13:30 pdt
From: Peter Stokes <stokes%cmc.cdn%ubc.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA
MMDF-Warning:  Parse error in preceding line at CSNET-RELAY.ARPA
Subject: Colas

Just for the taste of it??
What was the purpose of bringing up Pepsi and Coke on the latest shuttle 
mission?  Were the NASA PR people having fun (and doing their job) or was
there some kind of test/experiment in bringing them up?

Peter Stokes
Canadian Microelectronics Corporation

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!hao!ames!eugene
From: ames!eugene (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Re: Old fashion computing practices @ NASA
Date: 8 Aug 85 09:25:43 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA

> A former prof of mine, and good friend, worked for NASA through a
> subcontractor
> for a period of time after receiving his PhD. He told me that there were
> "old"
> diehards that still used cards to program when he was there (74-77).
> This was
> inspite of the fact that modern terminals were available.  He also said that 
> one of the main launch sequencing programs for the shuttle was written
> in FORTRAN and it included hundreds of lines of EQU's at the beginning. 
> 
> Can anyone confirm or deny this?
> 
> George Erhart

Okay. Below my office in a corner is a card punch room.  CONFIRMED.
P.S. many of the users of cards are visiting scientists (physicists
and chemists for example) who brought cards with them for sabbatical.

This is 1985.  I have worked directly with NASA since 1977.  At many
NASA sites: modern terminals are not available.  There are millions of
lines of FORTRAN available from NASA from the public domain thru COSMIC
(NASA's software distribution service).

NASA's problem stems from the fact that it got into the computer
world quite early and it froze it's perspective on computer technology
with the IBM 360/FORTRAN world in the 1960s.  It felt it had to freeze
this perspective for a variety of reasons which I won't cover.

In 1978, Carl Sagan, Raj Reddy, Ed Feignenbaum [sorry, I was describing
this story at lunch] put together a committee to look at the use of robtics
and AI in NASA.  This partially stemmed from a problem on the second Viking
Lander on Mars which had a bolt stuck in a joint on the arm to dig
trenches.  A loop wiggled the arm back and forth til the bolt dropped
out.  This set of commands had to be tested on earth and then sent 7 light-
minutes to Mars and then back before this problem was freed.  The question:
could an AI program have figured this out instead?

Early on NASA, like many businesses, looked at AI skeptically and dropped it.
It looked at more more than teleoperators.  Back to Sagan.  They published
this report which said that the computing practices of NASA were in some
cases 10-15 years behind the rest of the world.  There was a fundamental
problem in computer science much less AI.  The report came out in a
plain red cover without a NASA logo [I guard my copy].  Regarding
punch cards, in particular, it mentioned that even in the best cases
cards were only replaced by card images and submitted by batch.

My observations: 1st Unix system in NASA: a bootlegged system [this
machine I am posting on] in 1979.  No NASA purchased DEC-10s, and
very little LISP work.  Heavy use of IBM, Univac, and CDC hardware.
Dominance of Modcomp computers for "real-time" work [recall Thompson's
comments about the popularity of the PDP-11 in the 1974 Unix paper].
I moved from JPL to Ames in 1982.

Around 1980. It became clear to NASA HQ that something had to be done
about upgrading NASA computing.  Software schedules tended to be critical
on some space projects, the increible bulk of data from satellite sensors
was going unanalyzed, more performance was needed.  There was no office of
NASA particularly oriented to computing [still to this day].  NASA's
purpose was to do space and aeronautics.

An effort began to improve this situation.  Funding has begun on particular
'mission' areas: realtime systems software engineering, scientific
database, and supercomputing, oh, and some AI.  A new institute: RIACS
the Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science was formed headed by
Peter Denning for a couple of these cases.  Money was put into doing
"real" computer work.  The problem comes with some managers trying
to tell the difference on research done on computers and research on
computers.  Change is occurring, but it takes time.  Many people are still
skeptical of this effort.  LANs, for instance, are still quite scarce in
NASA, yet we have the Deep Space Net talking to satellites far away.

BASIC is stilling being used in many parts of NASA.  The IBM-oriented
managers (old time FORTRAN people) still have a great deal of power
which we did not expect to be a problem, but turf wars are everywhere.
Things are changing: more young visiting scientists are coming and
just this day, a couple physicists came asking for access to Unix
rather than VMS. [Many others like VMS's prompts for Filenames.]
This says nothing of the people who still use TSS here.  We're
catching up.

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Research Center
  {hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,decwrl,allegra}!ames!aurora!eugene
  emiya@ames-vmsb

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!ihnp4!cbosgd!cbdkc1!gwe
From: cbdkc1!gwe ( George Erhart  )
Subject: Old fashion computing practices @ NASA
Date: 5 Aug 85 22:35:36 GMT
Reply-To: gwe@cbdkc1.UUCP ( George Erhart  )
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus

A former prof of mine, and good friend, worked for NASA through a subcontractor
for a period of time after receiving his PhD. He told me that there were "old"
diehards that still used cards to program when he was there (74-77). This was
inspite of the fact that modern terminals were available.  He also said that 
one of the main launch sequencing programs for the shuttle was written
in FORTRAN and it included hundreds of lines of EQU's at the beginning. 

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

George Erhart

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!hrpd3!ken
From: hrpd3!ken (K.COCHRAN)
Subject: Re: Voyager on to Uranus.
Date: 6 Aug 85 14:09:49 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ


I have a question .....
	If something the size of a voyager, presumably not radiating
much radio energy, were to enter our solar system from an alien
culture, is the possibility of us detecting it more than miniscule ?

I just wonder it would burn up in the sun unnoticed. If this happens,
it would make all Carl Sagan's artistic work of a man and a woman
rather pointless, and just a waste of NASA's budget.

			Ken Cochran    vax135!hr1ar!ken

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!alice!alb
From: alice!alb (Adam L. Buchsbaum)
Subject: Landing and Rollout
Date: 6 Aug 85 23:40:06 GMT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill

The shuttle Challenger made a perfect landing today at EAFB,
and technicians hurried to secure it so that they could remove
the heat sensors believed to be the cause of last Monday's
ATO.

Meanwhile, the Discovery was rolled to pad 39A yesterday in
preparation for its 24 August launch.  The Discovery's engines
have new and improved heat sensors.

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!ihnp4!ihuxl!dcn
From: ihuxl!dcn (Dave Newkirk)
Subject: Shuttle Observed on 8/2/85 in Chicago
Date: 7 Aug 85 14:00:58 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

At 9:37 pm on August 2, I watched the shuttle pass overhead from my
backyard in suburban Warrenville.  It appeared in the northwest,
moving toward the southeast.  When I first saw it, it looked like
a comet (!), with a bright head and a faint tail/contrail behind it.
As it moved overhead, the tail shortened to a fuzzy area around the
shuttle, and then moved ahead of it as it passed the zenith.  Then
it suddenly faded away, leaving a dim point where the shuttle was.

At first I thought it was a trail left in the upper atmosphere, but
then when the trail shortened, I changed my theory to a reflection
of sunlight off the wings or a byproduct of one of the experiment
packages.  Since it seems to have faded as it moved in to the Earth's
shadow, I concluded that it must have been reflected sunlight.  It
sure was bright!
-- 
				Dave Newkirk, ihnp4!ihuxl!dcn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Aug 85 10:32:39 PDT
From: mcgeer%ucbkim@Berkeley (Rick McGeer)
To: space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Re: Voyager on to Uranus.

>I have a question .....
>	If something the size of a voyager, presumably not radiating
>much radio energy, were to enter our solar system from an alien
>culture, is the possibility of us detecting it more than miniscule ?
>
>I just wonder it would burn up in the sun unnoticed. If this happens,
>it would make all Carl Sagan's artistic work of a man and a woman
>rather pointless, and just a waste of NASA's budget.
>
>			Ken Cochran    vax135!hr1ar!ken
>
>

If it burned up in the sun, it would have to be on an awfully screwy orbit.
More likely, it would simply pass through the system; if it was in the plane of
the ecliptic, it *might* be captured, but that too is very unlikely.

So, yes, the artwork was a waste of NASA's budget, at least as far as making
contact with aliens goes.

					Rick

------------------------------

Path: mordor!ut-sally!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!ihnp4!ihuxn!gadfly
From: ihuxn!gadfly (Gadfly)
Subject: Re: precession of the equinoxes
Date: 7 Aug 85 17:40:53 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

--
> First, to set the record straight, the precession of the equinoxes
> was discovered by Hipparkhos in about 150 BC...
> 
> However, what does change is the relative position of sun and stars at any
> given season; thus, in Hipparkhos' time the vernal equinox began as the
> sun entered the Zodiacal sign of Pisces, whereas 2000 years earlier it
> had occurred when the sun entered Aries (and by about 2050 I think the sun
> will still be in Aquarius).  This of course makes nonsense of traditional
> astrology; since no astrologer seems to have looked at the real sky in
> several millenia, the dates given in your daily paper for 'Aries' &c are
> wildly wrong.

Well, just to set the record straight (and *not* to get into any
discussion on the worth of astrology), astrologers have long been
aware of said precession, and define "Aries" as that slice of the
celestial sphere between 0h and 2h RA, "Taurus" between 2h and 4h,
etc.  The actual stellar background to these slices is considered
irrelevant.  Galileo was also an astrologer, you know, although
apparently not quite as good at it as he was at science.  He
is supposed to have seen in the stars a long and prosperous life for
some duke who employed him.  The duke died two weeks later.
-- 
                    *** ***
JE MAINTIENDRAI   ***** *****
                 ****** ******  07 Aug 85 [20 Thermidor An CXCIII]
ken perlow       *****   *****
(312)979-7753     ** ** ** **
..ihnp4!iwsl8!ken   *** ***

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #233
*******************

13-Aug-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #234    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 234

Today's Topics:
				punchcards
			    Rotation and drift
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 12 Aug 85 18:52:43 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: punchcards
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

I have a couple of old boxes of cards that I've been hauling around for 12
years or so, and decided to see about getting them read in. The CS/Robotics
operator said, "I think we got rid of the last one, oh, 5 years ago". I then
called the computation center. It took them awhile to check, but they came
back and told me that there WAS a reader in the back of the main machine
room, and it was still hooked up. Of course, no one seemed to know quite how
to use it, but they were quite sure they could figure it out...

Maybe I should drop by the nearest NASA center?

------------------------------

Date: 12 Aug 85 18:04:53 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: Rotation and drift
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

I suspect there is a bit of unpredicatability to it all because the earth is
not a simple precessing gyroscope. It is a gyroscope with a buch of lead
weigths stuck on it at various odd places. And to make it all the more
interesting, they keep moving around, interact with each other, and with the
internal heat flux environment of the earth, which in turn affects and is
affected by the earth's magnetic field.

I you were to write a precise equation, it would HAVE to predict the
locations of thermal plumes that cause thinning and thickening of the crust
and the consequent effects on continental drift.

I suspect this means we can do no better than approximate a calculation by
extending current drift rates back for a few 10's of millions of years. But
before that our knowledge is probably not sufficient to do more than take a
stab at it. True, ROUGH continental sizes and latitudes are guessed at by
geomagnetic domain data, but I doubt it is sufficiently accurate to help
much.

This may even have some effects in shorter periods of time, because over the
short history of man, the distance between Europe and America has changed by
many miles, and that HAS to have a significant effect on precession. It may
even be the cause of the 'unexplained' 4 inch per year pole drift mentioned
earlier.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #234
*******************

14-Aug-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #235    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 235

Today's Topics:
		      Telephone/Mail human networks
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 13 Aug 85 12:29 EDT
From:  Mills@CISL-SERVICE-MULTICS.ARPA
Subject:  Telephone/Mail human networks
To:  Space@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc:  Mills@CISL-SERVICE-MULTICS.ARPA

A number of the Naturist groups along the east coast have been discussing
methods of better coordinating their political activites.  A major problem
in doing this is effective communication between the different groups.  Some
people have suggested e-mail as a solution, but given that few if any of the
groups have any computer equipment it would seem that the initial outlay for
equipment and software would be rather high. I have investigated using 
utilities like the Source and Compuserve, but once again price becomes a major
problem.  This led me to think about non-computer networks that utilize
telephones and/or U.S. mail.  The only such network I have heard of is the
"Phone-Tree"? that the L5 society uses. (This is why I am posting this to
Space as well as Human-Nets).  If anyone has any info on how the L5 net works,
if it realy exists, or how any other phone/mail net works I would greatly
appreciate it.  Any references to books/articles on how to build such a net
would also be very interesting.  We are talking about approximately 30
groups east of the Mississippi, mostly on the coast, with about 5 people
in each group that need to contacted with each "posting".

John Mills           

send replies to Mills  at CISL-SERVICE-MULTICS.ARPA

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #235
*******************

16-Aug-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #236    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 236

Today's Topics:
				 GASCAN's
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 15 Aug 85 21:41:36 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: GASCAN's
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

Pgh L5 is working with a reprentative of the PA board of education on ideas
for using aerospace education to increase student interest in math and
science. One idea we are examining is a GASCAN experiment. Although I
probably can dig the info out if I really try, would someone save me the
time and tell me:

	1) What are the current prices on GASCAN's
	2) What are the names of the companies that assist putting GASCAN's
	   together
	3) What is the current average waiting time to fly a GASCAN, from
	   request to purchase to orbit?
	4) Could I have a specific name and phone at NASA to
	   talk the idea over with?
	5) What is the GASCAN CBB phone number?

Nothing is solidified at this time. We are merely examining possibilities
and feeding information to people who will be setting up programs in the PA
schools.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #236
*******************

17-Aug-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #237    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 237

Today's Topics:
			   SPACE Digest V5 #236
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sender: "Bruce Parks:wbst147:Xerox.ns"@Xerox.ARPA
Date: 16 Aug 85 05:40:25 PDT (Friday)
Subject: SPACE Digest V5 #236
From: OTA@S1-A.Arpa
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.Arpa
Reply-to: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.Arpa

GVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGV
From: Ted Anderson <OTA@S1-A.ARPA>
Subject: SPACE Digest V5 #236
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Return-Path: <OTA@S1-A.ARPA>
Redistributed: XeroxSpace^.x
GVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGVGV


SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 236

Today's Topics:
				 GASCAN's
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 15 Aug 85 21:41:36 EDT
From: Dale.Amon@CMU-RI-FAS
Subject: GASCAN's
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

Pgh L5 is working with a reprentative of the PA board of education on ideas
for using aerospace education to increase student interest in math and
science. One idea we are examining is a GASCAN experiment. Although I
probably can dig the info out if I really try, would someone save me the
time and tell me:

	1) What are the current prices on GASCAN's
	2) What are the names of the companies that assist putting GASCAN's
	   together
	3) What is the current average waiting time to fly a GASCAN, from
	   request to purchase to orbit?
	4) Could I have a specific name and phone at NASA to
	   talk the idea over with?
	5) What is the GASCAN CBB phone number?

Nothing is solidified at this time. We are merely examining possibilities
and feeding information to people who will be setting up programs in the PA
schools.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #236
*******************

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #237
*******************

18-Aug-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #238    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 238

Today's Topics:
				 GASCANs
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat 17 Aug 85 22:07:26-EDT
From: FIRTH@TL-20B.ARPA
Subject: GASCANs
To: space@MIT-MC.ARPA

Please, what is a GASCAN?
-------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #238
*******************

19-Aug-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #239    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 239

Today's Topics:
			 SPACE Digest V5 #237    
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1985  00:43 EDT
From: MINSKY%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA
To:   Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
Cc:   SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: SPACE Digest V5 #237    

That was an irritating message, because it didn't say what a GASCAN is.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #239
*******************

20-Aug-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #240    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 240

Today's Topics:
			    6" Reflector Parts
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #239
		     Tropics + Precession + Confusion
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #236
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 19 Aug 85 07:45 EDT
From: Jim Moore <moore@ncsc>
Subject: 6" Reflector Parts

Help!

I have an Edmund's 6" reflector badly in need of an eyepiece holder. It needs
a 1.5" holder with a rack for engaging the focusing knobs. I've tried calling
Edmund's, but they apparently deal only in trinkets now. If anyone out there
knows where I can buy the holder, and possibly a replacement 6" main mirror,
please write me directly (moore@ncsc). Thanks.

                                       Jim Moore
                                       Naval Coastal Systems
                                       Panama City, FL 32407-5000

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Aug 85 12:43 EDT
From: kyle.wbst@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #239
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: kyle.wbst@Xerox.ARPA

  From: MINSKY%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA...
  re:That was an irritating message, because it didn't say what a GASCAN is.

It sounds to me like some sort of acronym for "Get Away Specials".  I
can't figure out the last part, tho.

Earle.

------------------------------

Date: 19 Aug 1985 at 1602-EDT
Subject: Tropics + Precession + Confusion
From: jim at TYCHO.ARPA  (James B. Houser)
To: space at mit-mc

Hi

	Since I started all this let me try to clear up what I was trying
to ask. The question was

	Q. Is there a way to mathematically describe the changes in the
	   tilt of the earth's ecliptic  over time.

Note that this has no relation to PRECESSION, LEAP SECONDS, RENT RIOTS,
or Julius Caesar. It does relate to the movement of the solstice lines
or Tropics. One person did submit a formula but it appears to be bogus.

>The tilt or obliquity of the ecliptic also changes.  This is a
>long period change of 41,000 years that takes the tilt from 24.5
>degrees to 22.1 degrees at about .47 seconds per year.  This
>change of tilt affects solar phenomena like sunrise, sunset, etc.
>The formula for the tilt is:
>
>    23 degrees 26 minutes 21.448 seconds
>      - 46.8150*T seconds
>      - .00059*T*T seconds
>      + .001813*T*T*T seconds
>
>    where T is the number of Julian centuries from 2000

	This appears not to be a legitimate equation (my overworked
floating point hardware agrees). Sorry if I was unclear in my original
submission. Thanks for the attempts at help.

			jim@tycho

------------------------------

Date:           Mon, 19 Aug 85 10:06:10 PDT
From:           "Niket K. Patwardhan" <lcc.niket@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU>
To:             Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
CC:             OTA@S1-A.arpa
Subject:        Re: SPACE Digest V5 #236
                    from "Ted Anderson <OTA@S1-A.ARPA>"

Can you tell me what a GASCAN is? Im splitting it up GAS_CAN!

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #240
*******************

21-Aug-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #241    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 241

Today's Topics:
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #240
			   More Telescope parts
			 PM-Space Platform,0147  
			      Book on space
			 SPACE Digest V5 #240    
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 85 13:21 EDT
From: kyle.wbst@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #240
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: kyle.wbst@Xerox.ARPA

re: Can you tell me what a GASCAN is? Im splitting it up GAS_CAN!

Date:           Mon, 19 Aug 85 10:06:10 PDT
From:           "Niket K. Patwardhan" <lcc.niket@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU>
To:             Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
CC:             OTA@S1-A.arpa
Subject:        Re: SPACE Digest V5 #236
                    from "Ted Anderson <OTA@S1-A.ARPA>"
----------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps it means "Get Away Special CANister".

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Aug 85 10:20:54 PDT
From:     tencati@JPL-VLSI.ARPA
Subject: More Telescope parts
To:       Space%mit-mc@JPL-VLSI.ARPA


I have a Celestron C-11.  I ordered a "Dew Zapper II" from Orion last
November.  They have delayed shipment 3 times and have sent me a letter
telling me that they are having trouble getting parts and are discontinuing
the product.

Does anyone know where I can find a similar product.  This little gizmo fits
around the circumference of the correcting plate and provides enough warmth 
to prevent dew from forming on the surface of the plate.  There is some sort
of wire that plugs into a hand-held rheostat to control the amount of heat
being output.   I have a dew cap already, and I don't want a heated cap.

Thanks for any info.  Please reply directly to TENCATI@JPL-VLSI.ARPA.

Ron Tencati

------------------------------

Date: 20 Aug 85  1108 PDT
From: Rod Brooks <ROD@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: PM-Space Platform,0147  
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

Houston Firm Wins OK for Private Space Platform
    WASHINGTON (AP) - A Houston-based company received NASA's approval
today to construct and operate a habitable platform that will be used
by commercial firms to manufacture products in space.
    The firm, Space Industries Inc., will receive no federal money for
the project, which is expected to cost $250 million to $500 million.
The platform will operated automatically much of the time, but will
be visited periodically by astronauts for servicing.
    Max Faget, president of Space Industries, Inc., said the platform -
35 feet long and 14.5 feet in diameter - should be ready to be
carried into orbit by the shuttle in 1989.
    He declined to discuss financing for the venture. NASA said it will
defer payments for hauling two such platforms into space until the
firm begins making money from their operation.
    
AP-NY-08-20-85 1340EDT
***************

------------------------------

Date:     Tue, 20 Aug 85 11:27:25 EDT
From:     Will Martin <wmartin@BRL.ARPA>
To:       Space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject:  Book on space

Note: The following was posted to USENET's net.space newsgroup; however,
since I have noticed that recently it seems that the gateway between the
Space Digest and USENET's net.space and net.columbia is broken in one
direction (ARPA-originated postings appear on USENET but
USENET-originated material does not appear in the Digest), I am sending
this copy directly to SPACE. If you see a duplicate because the gateway
has gotten fixed in the meantime, my apologies.

Short review of ...THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH, A Political History of the
Space Age, by Walter A McDougall (1985, Basic Books, Inc., 461 pp plus
appendix and notes). (The preceeding "..." is part of the title.)

This book is a rather detailed history of the American & Soviet space
efforts from WWII to the early 60's, with a brief survey of pre-WWII
experiments. I found the sections on the Soviet program to be the most
interesting; the parts on the earlier American efforts (just after WWII
and under Eisenhower) were also rather intriguing. Unfortunately, the
wealth of detail and documents available for the later American portion
(under LBJ and Kennedy) leads to such elaborate and in-depth discussion
that it became overly concerned with minutiae and rather boring. I
realize that such info is necessary for a "definitive" work on a
subject, but I was reading this in bed in the evenings over the past
days, and found myself consistently falling asleep and eventually just
skimmed the later part. Nonetheless, I do recommend the first portion
and having worthwhile information and interesting discussion.

Regards,
Will Martin

UUCP/USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin   or   ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 85 21:39:46 EDT
From: Keith F. Lynch <KFL@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject: SPACE Digest V5 #240    
To: Jim@TYCHO.ARPA
cc: SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS@MIT-MC.ARPA

  I think that that formula for axial tilt as a function of time is
an approximation only valid for a certain period, since it is a cubic
equation and the way the tilt really varies is more like a sine wave.
No finite polynomial can approximate a sine wave over an arbitrarily
large interval (I thought you No-Such-Agency folks knew all about
non-polynomial functions, etc).
  Note that what is being measured is the tilt between the plane of
the ecliptic and the plane of the Earth's equator.  It is not the
ecliptic that is moving, but the equator, or rather the projection
into space of the equator (the equator stays at about the same place
on the ground).

  Where does one find equations like that?  I have been looking for
such things...
								...Keith

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #241
*******************

22-Aug-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #242    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 242

Today's Topics:
			       earths tilt
			     EDMUND'S ADDRESS
	    Where does one find those astronomical equations?
			       NASA GAS NET
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85  7:38:38 EDT
From: Dick Koolish <koolish@bbncd2.arpa>
Subject: earths tilt
To: space@mit-mc.arpa

One finds out about obliquity of the ecliptic from the Explanatory
Supplement to the American Ephemeris published by the Naval Observatory.
Last time I called them, they were preparing a new edition of the book
with all the latest numbers.  I don't know if it has been published
yet, although the previous editions are around.

------------------------------

Date: 21 Aug 85 09:12 EDT
From: Jim Moore <moore@ncsc>
Subject: EDMUND'S ADDRESS
To: morgan@uci-icsa
cc: space@mit-mc

Tim:

My latest address for Edmund's is:
 
                            101 E. Gloucester Pike
                            Barrington, NJ (sorry, no zip)
                            (609) 547-3488

Hope it'll help.
 
                             Jim Moore
                             NCSC

------------------------------

Date: 21 Aug 1985 20:35:52-EDT (Wednesday)
From:   Josh Knight  <JOSH%YKTVMH.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA>
To:  space@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject: Where does one find those astronomical equations?

 >   Where does one find equations like that?  I have been looking for
 > such things...
 >                                                                 ...Keith

"The American Ephemeris and Nautical Almanac" from the U.S. Naval Observatory
and it's associated explanatory supplement.  I've forgotten exactly what the
explanatory supplement is called but any issue of the Almanac references it.
The AENA is published yearly.  I've been thinking of suscribing, but it's not
cheap.  Check the library of the nearest University with an Astronomy or
Aeronautics department or the nearest Planetarium.

			Josh Knight
			IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
josh@yktvmh.BITNET,  josh.yktvmh.ibm-sj@csnet-relay.ARPA

------------------------------

From: crash!bryan@SDCSVAX.ARPA
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 13:47:22 PDT
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: NASA GAS NET
Cc: dale.amone@cmv-ri-fas

NASA is (or at least was) running a b-board (300 baud) concerning the
GAS projects.  The number is:

                   301-344-9156

I've called it once or twice.  Nothing to write home about.

	Bryan R. Walker
	crash!bryan@ucsd
	{ihnp4, cbosgd, sdcsvax}!crash!bryan

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #242
*******************

13-Sep-85  0912	WARD@USC-ISIB.ARPA 	SPACE Digest V5 #243     
Received: from USC-ISIB.ARPA by S1-A.ARPA with TCP; 13 Sep 85  09:12:29 PDT
Return-Path: <OTA@S1-A.ARPA>
Date: 23 Aug 85  0348 PDT
From: Ted Anderson <OTA@S1-A.ARPA>
Subject: SPACE Digest V5 #243    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
ReSent-To: OTA@S1-A.ARPA
ReSent-From: WARD at USC-ISIB.ARPA (connected to COMP:<WARD>)
ReSent-Date: 13 Sep 1985


SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 243

Today's Topics:
		       Halley's comet info request
----------------------------------------------------------------------

To: space-enthusiasts@mit-mc.arpa
Subject: Halley's comet info request
Date: 22 Aug 85 12:22:34 EST (Thu)
From: Andrew V Royappa <avr@Purdue.EDU>

	Hi .. I would like some info about Halley's comet,
specifically about how to get to the southern hemisphere to
watch it. I'm interested in:

	1. the best locations to watch from
	2. how to get there and back as cheaply as possible
	   (tours etc.).

				Thank you,

					Andrew Royappa
					avr@purdue.arpa
			{ihnp4, ucbvax, decvax, pur-ee}!purdue!avr

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #243
*******************

13-Sep-85  0912	WARD@USC-ISIB.ARPA 	SPACE Digest V5 #244     
Received: from USC-ISIB.ARPA by S1-A.ARPA with TCP; 13 Sep 85  09:12:44 PDT
Return-Path: <OTA@S1-A.ARPA>
Date: 24 Aug 85  0347 PDT
From: Ted Anderson <OTA@S1-A.ARPA>
Subject: SPACE Digest V5 #244    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
ReSent-To: OTA@S1-A.ARPA
ReSent-From: WARD at USC-ISIB.ARPA (connected to COMP:<WARD>)
ReSent-Date: 13 Sep 1985


SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 244

Today's Topics:
				  comets
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85  7:19:20 EDT
From: Dick Koolish <koolish@bbncd2.arpa>
Subject: comets
To: space@mit-mc.arpa, list/astro:@bbncd2.arpa

P/Halley

0h UT       RA (2000)   DEC             MAG
-----       ---------   ---             ---
Sept 1      6h 11.52m   +19d 20.4m      12.7
Sept 6      6  13.30    +19  25.1       12.5
Sept 11     6  14.71    +19  30.1       12.1
Sept 16     6  15.64    +19  35.9       12.0
Sept 21     6  16.00    +19  42.5       11.7
Sept 26     6  15.65    +19  50.4       11.4
Oct 1       6  14.44    +19  59.7       11.1

P/Giacobini-Zinner

0h UT       RA (2000)   DEC             MAG
-----       ---------   ---             ---
Sept 1      5h 10.6m    +37d 45m         8.0
Sept 6      5  34.4     +30  56          8.1
Sept 11     5  54.8     +23  52          8.2
Sept 16     6  12.2     +16  53          8.2
Sept 21     6  27.2     +10  11          8.4
Sept 26     6  40.1     + 3  56          8.5
Oct 1       6  51.3     - 1  49          8.7

At Stellafane last weekend, Halley was seen by a number of
observers using 24 inch telescopes.

On September 14th, Halley and Giacobini-Zinner will pass within
2 degrees of each other.  Closest approach is at 18:00 UT.
On the morning of the 14th, they will be 2.1 degrees apart and
2.3 degrees on the morning of the 15th.

At 07:35 UT (3:35 AM EST) on September 4th, Giacobini-Zinner
will occult the 6th magnitude star SAO 58030  in Auriga.
Complete details in September Sky & Telescope, page 223.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #244
*******************

05-Sep-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #245    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 245

Today's Topics:
			   Soviet Space Program
			      Space Politics
			  Satellite on a String
			  Shuttle launch Sched.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: crash!bryan@SDCSVAX.ARPA
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 85 10:20:32 PDT
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Soviet Space Program

#: 54883 S2/Non-NASA Programs
28-Aug-85  00:35:37 Sb: #54874-Soviet Space Program Fm: David Anderman
74216,705 To: Scott Jann 74256,1123 There are 3 reputed Soviet Space Shuttles.
One is a scale model, launched on a "C" class vehicle, about a ton or two in
weight. This vehicle compares with our Asset program of the middle 1960's, and
is intended to study high velocity flight in the upper atmosphere. The second
(whose existence is postulated by the DoD) is a Dynasoar class vehicle, as you
suggest, able to carry 2 - 4 cosmonauts and consumables to Salyut. However,
the Soyuz booster can only carry 14,000 lbs to earth orbit, and this vehicle
will be much heavier than that. (The Dynasoar was originally to be launched by
the Titan II, but due to the realities of its final intended weight the Titan
IIIC was developed to carry it, and in the final stages of the Dynasoar
program, the Saturn IB was being considered as a launch vehicle). In fact, the
DoD, and other authorities see the mini-shuttle being launched by the Proton
-or similar sized- rocket. Finally, the heavy shuttle will be launched by the
a version of their super booster, and as you suggest, will have no main
engines on board. Unfortunately for the Dod, and others who postulate the
existence of spectacular developments from the Soviets in the near term, none
of these shuttles will be in actual use (as can be presently determined) in
this century, due to the lack of the (in the case of the Proton - launched
shuttle) a reason for existence, and (in the case of the heavy shuttle) a
liquid hydrogen booster to enable it to carry payloads to orbit. So that's the
story on the present Soviet efforts on their shuttles. If you've heard
anything more, I'd be glad to hear about it.

------------------------------

From: crash!bryan@SDCSVAX.ARPA
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 85 10:16:51 PDT
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Space Politics

#: 54857 S4/Space Politics
27-Aug-85  10:28:32 Sb: NASA's SDI Sats Fm: Tom Neff 75176,3532 AP 08/26 22:00
EDT a0736
SPACE CENTER, Houston (AP) -- NASA has proposed building and launching two 
target satellite systems to help the Defense Department develop its "Star
Wars" defense program, according to a published report.
The National Aeronautics and Space Administration proposal calls for 
development of a satellite called Chemsat and a group of satellites called 
Multiprobe, Aviation Week & Space Technology reported.
Chemsat would deploy gas clouds that could be used as test targets for the 
laser weapons being developed by the Strategic Defense Initiative
Organization. The Strategic Defense Initiative is sometimes called the "Star
Wars" defense.
The Multiprobe satellites would be grouped around the Chemsat gas clouds to 
measure the performance of the laser weapons.
Under the NASA proposal, SDI would pay for the satellites, but they would be 
built by NASA and launched by the space shuttle.
The satellite systems also would gather basic scientific information about the
ionosphere. This information would not be classified and thus shared with the
science community.
SDI also is seeking to receive data from space studies conducted by other NASA
projects, including foreign satellites that are being flown in cooperation 
with NASA, the magazine said.

------------------------------

From: crash!bryan@SDCSVAX.ARPA
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 85 10:18:49 PDT
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Satellite on a String

#: 54855 S1/NASA Space Programs
27-Aug-85  10:27:32 Sb: Satellite on a String Fm: Tom Neff 75176,3532 AP 08/27
10:38 EDT a0570
STANFORD, Calif. (AP) -- A 1988 space shuttle experiment in which a satellite
will be dropped into the upper atmosphere at the end of a 12-milelong cable
will allow study of a state of matter rarely found on Earth, say the 
scientists designing it.
The National Aeronautics and Space Administration and the National Space Plan
Office of the Italian National Reseach Council last week selected Stanford 
University's proposal for the experiment to be carried on three missions.
The shuttle, cable and satellite together will form "the largest object ever 
flown anywhere, anytime. It will be more than 100 times larger than anything 
that has ever flown," Stanford Professor Roger Williamson said Monday.
NASA selected Stanford's Shuttle Electrodynamic Tether System (SETS) from more
than 75 proposals submitted by scientist worldwide for the study of ionized
gases and their properties in the upper ionosphere.
Using the tether, which will be barely a half-inch wide, will put the 
satellite into a little-known region of the ionosphere that is dense enough to
slow a free satellite and make it fall. At the same time, the shuttle will be 
high enough that atmospheric drag can be ignored.
The tether also allows scientists to examine two regions simultaneously, said
Williams, a member of a team of Stanford electrical engineers led by Professor
Peter Banks.
The region to be studied by the satellite is made up of ionized, charged 
particles or plasma, a state of matter rare on Earth outside of lightning and 
other high-temperature or electrical reactions but believed to be the most 
abundant type of matter in the universe.
An international team of scientists, including the half-dozen Stanord 
scientists, also will study how a large structure such as the shuttle and the 
satellite it will tow like a fish lure disturbs these excited particles, he 
said.
"We hope to learn a lot about large structures in space like solar sails and 
solar power stations, especially since we've never had anything nearly this 
large in space," Williamson said. "In the next 10 years, NASA has planned 200 
trips of the shuttles and a space station of unprecedented size. It is 
incumbent on us to understand that atmosphere."
If the flight is successful, a second shuttle will tow a satellite at the end
of a tether 62 miles long, he said.

------------------------------

From: crash!bryan@SDCSVAX.ARPA
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 85 10:21:46 PDT
To: space@mit-mc
Subject: Shuttle launch Sched.

The first digit identifies the fiscal year (Oct 1 thru Sept 30) (4=1984, 
5=1985 and so on), the second digit indicates the launch site (1=KSC, 
2=Vandenburg), and the letter indicates the launch sequence 
within the fiscal year (A=1, B=2, and so on).
1986 (16 launches) 
 
 DATE        MISSION                    PAYLOAD 
------    -------------    --------------------------------- 
DEC 23     61-C (STS-32)   G-STAR-C, SATCOM KU-2, WESTAR 7, SSIP
JAN 22    61-D  (STS-33)   SPACELAB 4, SPARTAN H 
FEB 6     61-E  (STS-34)   ASTRO-1, DBS-B 
MAR 15    61-F  (STS-35)   ISPM (CENTAUR) 
MAR 21    61-G  (STS-36)   GALILEO (CENTAUR) 
JUN 27    62-H  (STS-37)   EOS-2, INSAT 1-C, SKYNET-4B, STC DBS-A 
JUL 16    61-I  (STS-38)   INTELSAT VI-2, MSL-4, SUNLAB-1 
AUG 13    61-J  (STS-39)   SPACE TELESCOPE 
AUG 21    61-K  (STS-40)   DOD 
SEP 12    61-L  (STS-41)   NOT YET MANIFESTED 
SEP 29    62-B  (STS-V2)   DOD 
OCT 1     71-A  (STS-42)   MSL-5, ASC-2, STC DBS-B, DOD PAM 
OCT 23    71-B  (STS-43)   SATCOM KU-3, CRRES, 
NOV 6     71-C  (STS-44)   DOD 
NOV 26    71-D  (STS-45)   ASTRO-2, DOD PAM-2, USAT-1 
DEC 17    71-E  (STS-46)   EOM-2, DOD PAM-3, GALAXY KU-2 
 
1987 (24 launches) 
 
JAN 2     72-A  (STS-4V)   LANDSAT REPAIR 
JAN 14    71-F  (STS-47)   OAST-2, MSL-6, INTELSAT VI-3 
JAN 28    71-C  (STA-48)   NOT YET MANIFESTED 
FEB ??    71-H  (STS-49)   STC DBS-C, PLUS ?? 
MAR ??    71-I  (STS-50)   MSL-7, USAT-2, DOD PAM-4, ORION-A 
MAR ??    71-J  (STS-51)   C2-SPACELINES 
APR ??    71-K  (STS-52)   DOD PAM-5, SATCOM KU-4, UNISAT-1 
APR ??    72-B  (STS-V4)   OSTA-5, PLUS ?? 
MAY ??    71-L  (STS-53)   SPARTAN-3, SATCOM I, STC DBS-D, 
MAY ??    71-M  (STS-54)   IML-1 PLUS SPACELAB 8 
JUN ??    71-N  (STS-55)   MSL-8, CFMF, INTELSAT VI-4 
JUL ??    71-O  (STS-56)   UNISAT-2, SBS-6, DOD PAM-6, SPACENET-C 
JUL ??    71-P  (STS-57)   DOD 
JUL ??    71-Q  (STS-58)   ASTRO-3, ORION-B, DOD PAM-7 
AUG ??    71-R  (STS-59)   OAST-3, LDEF-2 
AUG ??    71-S  (STS-60)   SUNLAB-2, MSL-9, ROSAT 
SEP ??    71-T  (STS-61)   DOD 
OCT ??    8W-A  (STS-5V)   DOD 
OCT ??    81-A  (STS-62)   EURECA, STC DBS-E, DOD PAM-8, RCA, DBS-4
OCT ??    81-B  (STS-63)   MSL-10, Intelsat VI-5, EUVE 
NOV ??    81-C  (STS-64)   EOM-2, ASC-3, DOD PAM-9, SPACENET-D 
NOV ??    81-D  (STS-65)   DOD 
DEC ??    82-B  (STS-6V)   COBE, OSTA-7 
DEC ??    81-E  (STS-66)   TSS-1, LACEOS-2, DOD PAM-12, UNISAT-3 
 
1988 (23 launches) 
 
JAN ??    81-F  (STS-67)   DBS LUX-A, CFMF-2, FORDSAT-11, DOD, PAM-13
JAN ??    81-G  (STS-68)   Spacelab J 
FEB ??    81-H  (STS-69)   MSL-11, WESTAR-8, DOD PAM-12, FORDSAT-2
MAR ??    81-I  (STS-70)   SHEAL-1, ORION-C, USAT-3, WESTAR-A 
MAR ??    81-J  (STS-71)   DOD 
APR ??    81-K  (STS-72)   VRM (CENTAUR) 
MAY ??    81-L  (STS-73)   CRD, EURECA RETRIEVAL, RCA DBS-5 
MAY ??    81-M  (STS-74)   CFMF-3, ORION-D, TELESAT-K, DOD, PAM-13
JUN ??    81-N  (STS-75)   DOD 
JUN ??    82-C  (STS-V7)   SP PLASMA-1, PLUS ?? 
JUN ??    81-D  (STS-76)   LS LAB-3 
JUL ??    81-P  (STS-77)   TELSTAR 3-B, AUSSAT-3, DOD PAM-14, MSL-12
JUL ??    81-O  (STS-78)   DOD PAM-15, FORDSAT-3, USSB-A 
AUG ??    81-R  (STS-79)   LEASECRAFT-101, ITALSAT-1 
AUG ??    81-S  (STS-80)   MSL-13, DOD PAM-16, WESTAR-B, RCA, DBS-2
SEP ??    82-D  (STS-V8)   DOD 
SEP ??    81-T  (STS-81)   DOD 
OCT ??    91-A  (STS-82)   EOM-4, DOD PAM-17, STC DBS-F 
OCT ??    91-B  (STS-83)   DOD 
NOV ??    91-C  (STS-84)   SPACELAB D-4 
DEC ??    91-D  (STS-85)   MSL-14, SBTS-AR, ACTS DOD PAM-18 
DEC ??    92-A  (STS-V9)   NOT YET MANIFESTED 
DEC ??    91-E  (STS-86)   USSB-B PLUS ?? 
 
1989 (18 LAUNCHES) 
 
JAN ??    91-F  (STS-87)   IML-2 
FEB ??    91-G  (STS-88)   MSL-15, WESTAR-9, DOD PAM-19 
FEB ??    91-H  (STS-89)   DOD 
MAR ??    91-I  (STS-90)   SUNLAB-3, DBS LUX-B, GOES-I 
MAR ??    92-B  (STS-V10)  NOAA-K, OSTA-9 
MAR ??    91-J  (STS-91)   DOD PAM-20, LEASECRAFT RETRIEVAL 
APR ??    91-K  (STS-92)   MSL-16, DOD PAM-21, INTELSAT VI-6 
APR ??    91-L  (STS-93)   REFLIGHT OPPORTUNITY 
MAY ??    91-M  (STS-94)   SHEAL-2, WESTAR-C 
JUN ??    91-N  (STS-95)   MSL-17, DOD PAM-22, GOES-J, USSB-C 
JUN ??    92-C  (STS-V11)  REFLIGHT OPPORTUNITY 
JUN ??    91-O  (STS-96)   LDEF-2 RETRIEVAL 
JUL ??    91-P  (STS-97)   MSL-18, INTELSAT VI-7 
JUL ??    91-Q  (STS-98)   LS LAB-4, TELSAT-L 
AUG ??    91-R  (STS-99)   REFLIGHT OPPORTUNITY 
SEP ??    91-S  (STS-100)  SP PLASMA-2, MSL-19 
SEP ??    92-D  (STS-V12)  REFLIGHT OPPORTUNITY
SEP ??    91-T  (STS-101)  RCA DBS-1

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #245
*******************

13-Sep-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #246    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 246

Today's Topics:
			      Administrivia
				Relativity
			    Space fishing lure
		       [JKS: AIAA/NASA Proceedings]
			      Voyager 2 news
			      Ariane Failure
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Sep 85 13:29:00 PDT
From: The Moderator <OTA@S1-A.ARPA>
Subject: Administrivia

As you have no doubt noticed the Space Digest has been out of order for
almost three weeks now.  This system suffered a processor failure followed
by a hard disk crash.  The result of these problems is that although a
Space Digest was sent out on both August 23rd and 24th (I presume) I have
no record of them.  Also on the 5th of September the system came up long
enough to send out a digest but with a mostly old filesystem (May 14th
1985).  So on that date some people may have received a Digest numbered
160 with some old mail (the whole contents of Digest #159) and some new
mail.

This Digest will be #246.  This assumes that a Digest number 243 and 244
went out before the crash.  I have renamed the damaged digest calling
itself #160 (sans Digest #159) to number 245.  If anyone has saved a copy
of #243 or #244 I'd very much appreciate having copies sent to OTA@S1-A.
Also if someone wants a copy of what #245 let me know.  The Usenet
connection doesn't seem to be working so load will probably be fairly
light until that gets fixed.

	Ted Anderson

------------------------------

Date: Thu,  5 Sep 85 23:45:00 EDT
From: Keith F. Lynch <KFL@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject: Relativity
To: Gwyn@BRL.ARPA
cc: SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS@MIT-MC.ARPA

    Date:     Tue, 14 May 85 7:06:31 EDT
    From:     Doug Gwyn (VLD/VMB) <gwyn@Brl.ARPA>

    ...  Both cases assume that there is a meaning to where
    the distant object "really is" and what its time "really is"; in general
    there is no single answer to these questions.

  Sure there is.  The answer would be different if you were travelling at
a different speed or in a different direction, but for any given observer
(in relativity, people are all called 'observers', just as on a computer
system, people are all called 'users') there is a very real time and location
for other objects.
								...Keith

------------------------------

Date: 7 Sep 1985 11:54-EST
From: Nicholas.Spies@CMU-CS-H.ARPA
Subject: Space fishing lure
To: space@mit-mc

	 Wouldn't hanging a probe into a cloud of charged particles be
	 akin to Franklin's kite-fly (upside-down)? If the tether were
	 conductive the probe might create a voltage differential with
	 possibly shocking results!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Sep 85 01:40:06 EDT
From: Steven A. Swernofsky <SASW@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject:  [JKS: AIAA/NASA Proceedings]
To: AILIST@MIT-MC.ARPA, SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA

MSG:  *MSG   4505  
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1985  12:25 EDT
From: JKS at MIT-OZ
To:   *ai at MIT-OZ
Re:   AIAA/NASA Proceedings
DISTRIB: *AI
EXPIRES: 09/18/85 12:29:26
JKS@MIT-OZ 09/11/85 12: 29:26 Re:  AIAA/NASA Proceedings

I have a number of papers presented at the AIAA/NASA
Symposium on Automation, Robotics and Advanced Computing
for the National Space Program.  They are mostly high
level surveys of what NASA would like to see.  Drop by
if you want to take a look at them or make copies. 

Ken (office = 832)

------------------------------

Date: 12 Sep 85  2144 PDT
From: Ron Goldman <ARG@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: Voyager 2 news
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

Uranus Looks Like 'Blue Marble' In First Color Photo By Voyager 2
By LEE SIEGEL
AP Science Writer
    PASADENA, Calif. (AP) - Voyager 2's first color photograph of Uranus
makes the solar system's seventh planet look like a ''blue marble,''
a NASA spokesman said Thursday.
    The space probe, due to fly past Uranus next Jan. 24, took the
photograph July 15 when it was 153 million miles from the solar
system's third largest planet, said Jim Doyle, a spokesman for the
National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Jet Propulsion
Laboratory.
    The lab, which runs NASA's unmanned space program, released the
composite photograph Thursday.
    ''The planet looks like a blue marble, just about that size'' in the
photograph, Doyle said.
    The bluish tint is Uranus's actual color. Methane gas in the
planet's atmosphere absorbs red light from incoming sunlight, leaving
blue to reflect into space as the dominant visible color, he
explained.
    The color photo was made from three black-and-white, narrow-angle
camera photos of Uranus, filtered through blue, green and orange
filters, respectively, then superimposed, Doyle said.
    Images of four of Uranus's five moons - Ariel, Umbriel, Titania and
Oberon - were superimposed on the color image and their brightness
enhanced 10 times, NASA's announcement said. They appear as tiny,
barely visible white dots in the photo.
    ''The smallest of the five satellites, Miranda, is still not
visible'' to Voyager 2, Doyle said. ''It's either too far away or
behind the planet.''
    The probe also was unable to photograph any of Uranus's clouds or
its nine known rings, which ''are too narrow and dark to be seen at
this time,'' Doyle said.
    Voyager 2, launched Aug. 20, 1977, will become the first spacecraft
to fly past Uranus next year, at a distance of about 66,000 miles.
    Uranus is one of the solar system's giant, gaseous planets. The
others are Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune. Uranus is four times the size
of Earth. Jupiter, the solar system's largest plant, is 11 times the
size of Earth.
    

------------------------------

Date: 12 Sep 85  2148 PDT
From: Ron Goldman <ARG@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: Ariane Failure
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

Rocket Liftoff Fails
    KOUROU, French Guiana (AP) - Space Center officials blew up the
European Space Agency's Ariane rocket less than 10 minutes after
liftoff late Thursday when it moved off course and began falling,
threatening inhabited areas, officials here said.
    The order to destroy was given immediately after the rocket,
carrying two communications satellites, left its prescribed
trajectory and lost altitude, the officials said.
    The failure was Ariane's third in 15 launches.
    French President Francois Mitterrand, on a stopover here on his way
to French Polynesia, watched the failed launch of the European
rocket, which was made to compete with the American Space Shuttle in
the billion-dollar satellite launching business.
    ''It's obviously a great disappointment,'' said Frederic d'Allest,
president of Arianespace, the European Space Agency's commercial arm.
    The Ariane was reported on course during the first minutes of its
ascension before suddenly veering off course and losing altitude.
    D'Allest attributed the failure to a problem with the third-stage
engine.
    ''The third stage ignited normally, but, very quickly, it appeared
that the pressure in the combustion chamber was inferior to normal
and the stage died out shortly after,'' he said. ''At that moment,
the decision was made to destroy the rocket.''
    The destroyed Ariane was to put into orbit the third of the European
Communications Satellites series, the ECS-3, and the American
Spacenet-3, built by RCA for GTE Spacenet.
    Liftoff at this space center on the northeast shoulder of South
America was on schedule at 8:26 p.m. (7:26 p.m. EDT). The rocket was
destroyed nine minutes after liftoff, the officials said.
    The Ariane was reported on course during the first minutes of its
ascension. There were unconfirmed reports that it suddenly veered off
course and lost altitude because of a propulsion problem in the
third-stage motor.
    Ariane's two other failures were recorded May 23, 1980, on its
second launch, and May 9, 1982, on its fifth. Since then, motors were
revised, boosters were added and other important changes were made,
leading to nine straight successes.
    ''It will work the next time,'' Mitterrand commented as he left the
space center's Jupiter control room, where he monitored the liftoff.
''Yes, of course, I'm disappointed .... There is always a percentage
of failures. But I'm mostly disappointed for the technicians and all
those who worked on this project.''
    

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #246
*******************

17-Sep-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #247    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 247

Today's Topics:
		       Re: Questions on Relativity
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:     Mon, 16 Sep 85 19:11 EST
From:     Steve Benz <mrspock%clemson.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA>
To:       space-enthusiasts@mit-mc.ARPA
Subject:  Re: Questions on Relativity

>   Is it theoretically possible to create a device which, after being
> "locked" onto an object, (e.g., the Earth), could always tell you your
> velocity relative to that object (even after a period of near-light speed
> travel, various maneuvers, etc.)?

   Well, I'd propose having this object measure the color of this
object relative to when it was "locked" on.  This would only measure the
speed of the object and not the velocity, but it's better than nothing, right?

   Naturally, the pilot of a ship equipped with such a device would have to 
be careful that he didn't block the view for any extended period of time.

					Steve Benz
					Dept. Comp. Sci. Clemson U.
					mrspock.clemson@csnet-relay

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #247
*******************

18-Sep-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #248    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 248

Today's Topics:
			   Relativity, re #247
		      Launch of Soviet T-14 mission
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:           Tue, 17 Sep 85 17:53:38 PDT
From:           Richard K. Jennings <jennings@AEROSPACE.ARPA>
To:             space@mit-mc
Subject:        Relativity, re #247

	Re Steve Benz's proposal to lock onto color to determine relative velocity,
Two problems:

	Radial velocity is only one component of relative velocity -- it
	is not clear how angular velocity can be measure via colors;

	As the radial velocity approached the speed of light, the
	measurement instrument would have to become (in the limit)
	infinitely precise.

		-- Rich.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Sep 85 23:33:23 edt
From: glenn@ll-vlsi (Glenn Chapman)
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject: Launch of Soviet T-14 mission

The USSR has launched a new manned mission to the Salyut 7 space station
today (Sept 17).  The Soyuz T-14 spacecraft has a 3 man crew, two of
whom are new cosmonauts, while one spent time on Salyut 4 and 6.  They are
expected to dock to the space station tomorrow, which has a two man
crew that has been up there for about 100 days.

This launch suggests that the current crew will be up there for a long
time as the Russians have generally switched Soyuz's every four months
when a long duration mission was planned for the Salyut.  It also
indicates that the Salyut has been returned to operation by the
repairs done by the crew on board it.

Let us only hope that this continued Soviet presence in space will
help NASA get the funds for our own space station.

                                    Glenn Chapman

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #248
*******************

21-Sep-85  0349	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #249    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 249

Today's Topics:
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #247
			Removal from Mailing List
				Vol 5 #246
			Soviet T-14 mission update
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #248
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sender: "Michael M Cashen.SBDERX"@Xerox.ARPA
Date: 18 Sep 85 02:40:02 PDT (Wednesday)
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #247
From: CASHEN.SBDERX@Xerox.ARPA
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.Arpa
cc: CASHEN.SBDERX@Xerox.ARPA
 (Tuesday)


Ref: Questions on Relativity

Is time also relative to size?
         Am I correct in thinking that the scaled up speed of an insect
in some instances would be as much as 600mph? If this is so, does that
mean that insects think in a much quicker time frame than larger life
forms, such as humans.          Imagine, if you will, that  a person had
the ability to grow to an infinite height, ignoring of course the fact
that his body would explode due to increases in pressure over surface
area and other anatomical attributes. Soon that person has out-stripped
the size of the earth and is still growing. At one stage this person
could by simply taking one step, move from the earth to the Moon.
However, at current levels of technology it would take us a minimum of
about a week or two, to reach the same objective.
	 On reflection, does this mean that although it only takes one step for
our giant to reach the Moon, in what for him would be less than a
second, would his second be our two weeks anyway. Thus, would the
instant of his foot reaching the Moon be that of our space ship landing,
given that both started at the same time?
	 Is this concept illustrated by the way in which an insect must take
several steps to cover the equivalent distance of a humans step.
However, since an insects steps are so much more faster it may cover
that distance in exactly the same time, less than a second???????
	 Mike 

------------------------------

	id AA08876; Wed, 18 Sep 85 15:07:00 pdt
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1985  15:02:43 PDT
From: JOSE%USCVM.BITNET@Berkeley    (Jose M Flores)
To: SPACE@MIT-MC.ARPA (Hamid)

Subject: Removal from Mailing List

Please remove names from your mailing list from USCVM. Users have left
and they are no longer in this system.

JF

------------------------------

From: crash!bryan@sdcsvax.arpa
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 85 11:17:13 PDT
To: space@mit-mc.arpa
Subject: Vol 5 #246

Sorry about posting this on the net.

   I don't know exactly what happened but I recieved 3 copies of SPACE
vol 5 #246.  I don't know which end it is on (mine maybe).  I'm not
complaining, just thought the moderator should know.

	Bryan R. Walker
		crash!bryan@ucsd
	{ihnp4, cbosgd, sdcsvax}!crash!bryan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Sep 85 11:20:41 edt
From: glenn@ll-vlsi (Glenn Chapman)
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject: Soviet T-14 mission update

The Soviet Soyuz T-14 spacecraft docked with the Salyut 7 space station
yesterday (Sept 18).  This mission, though not talked about in the news media,
is already showing several interesting features.  First the Russians have
announced that this will be a eight day visit and that the returning crew will
bring back the Soyuz T-13 craft.  They have never given out that type of
data at the time of docking before.  Secondly one T-14 crew member,
G. Grechko, will be staying behind on the Salyut with the crew that has already
been there for about 100 days.  Grechko has previously spent time on Salyut 4
and 6, while the returning crew are both rookies.  This is the first time
a new crew member has been added to space station mission that is already
under way.  In deed this is the type of thing one would see in a permently
manned space station!  Thirdly the exchange of the Soyuz's suggests that this
Salyut will be manned for at least another 100 days.  If the new Soyuz is
taken to it's full rated time in orbit (about 180 days) it would mean that they
may not be comming down before March '86.  That would give the original Salyut
crew a 280 odd day mission, and a new world's record for time in orbit
(about 18% greater than the previous 237 day record).  Finally to mount
this type of mission suggests that the Salyut 8 replacement station, which
was expected to be launched this year, probably will not be put in orbit for
a while longer.

At this rate the Russians will beat us to the permanently manned space station
by about 7 or 8 years.  Depressing isn't it.

                                        Glenn Chapman

------------------------------

Date:           Thu, 19 Sep 85 15:30:51 PDT
From:           "Niket K. Patwardhan" <lcc.niket@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU>
To:             Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC
Subject:        Re: SPACE Digest V5 #248
                    from "Ted Anderson <OTA@S1-A.ARPA>"

One other comment on the color method of determining speed.... even when there
is no radial velocity, only tangential velocity, you still get a red shift due
to the time dilation effect! Thus without a knowledge of the direction, you
cant even tell the speed!

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #249
*******************

23-Sep-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #250    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 250

Today's Topics:
		       Re:re: SPACE Digest V5 #247
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 22 Sep 85 21:00:47 EDT
From: Charles.Fineman@CMU-CS-SPICE
Subject: Re:re: SPACE Digest V5 #247
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

As I understand it. Time in a relative universe is RELATIVE to some for of
periodic motion (e.g. the swinging of a pendulum or the frequency of light
emited from a resonating atom). Since biological clocks are based on
metabolism, insects probably do live in a speeded up time frame. Of course
this has nothing to do with a time frame in Einstien's sense of the term.

	~Charlie

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #250
*******************

25-Sep-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #251    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 251

Today's Topics:
			 Re: SPACE Digest V5 #250
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sender: "Michael M Cashen.SBDERX"@Xerox.ARPA
Date: 25 Sep 85 03:15:27 PDT (Wednesday)
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V5 #250
From: CASHEN.SBDERX@Xerox.ARPA
To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC.Arpa
cc: CASHEN.SBDERX@Xerox.ARPA
 (Monday)


ref:
Date: 22 Sep 85 21:00:47 EDT
From: Charles.Fineman@CMU-CS-SPICE
Subject: Re:re: SPACE Digest V5 #247
To: BBoard.Maintainer@CMU-CS-A

As I understand it. Time in a relative universe is RELATIVE to some for
of
periodic motion (e.g. the swinging of a pendulum or the frequency of
light
emited from a resonating atom). Since biological clocks are based on
metabolism, insects probably do live in a speeded up time frame. Of
course
this has nothing to do with a time frame in Einstien's sense of the
term.

	~Charlie

Dear Charlie,
            I am not satisfied by your answer. Does Einstein not explain
the paradox's of his special theory etc. in terms of arbitrary observers
in which events are relative to them alone. This observation is
indepedent of their metabolic rate or biological clock. Just as Einstein
hypothesised the ability of a person to reach the speed of light, I too
hypothesis the ability of a person to grow to an infinite size. I am
therefore asking the question, if we are able to pass through different
time zones by approaching the speed of light, does this also apply to
increases in size? Is time therefore, variable in many dimensions some
of which we have no concept of?

          Mike 

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #251
*******************

27-Sep-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #252    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 252

Today's Topics:
		    Soyuz T-13 leave Salyut 7 station
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Sep 85 10:22:52 edt
From: glenn@ll-vlsi (Glenn Chapman)
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Subject: Soyuz T-13 leave Salyut 7 station

The Soyuz T-13 spacecraft separated from the Salyut 7 space station today
(Sept 26) as expected and has returned to earth.  On board was Vladimir
Dzhanibkov, who spent about 110 days in space on the Salyut, and one
of the original Soyuz T-14 crew (Grechko ?).  They are leaving the newer
Soyuz T-14 craft for the current Salyut crew.  There are several new
interesting points on this mission since my last mailing (Sept 17).
First is the crew change with one of the original T-13 crew ( Victor Savinykh)
staying with the space station along with two new crew members from the current
flight.  The Russians are calling this (correctly) the first crew rotation in
space.  Secondly Dzhanibkov, who is comming down, is the USSR's most experienced
mission commander.  He has five flights to his name (about one a year since
1980) as compared to a maximum of 3 for most other cosmonauts.  (One other
cosmonaut has 4 flights but the Russians do not count one of them because it
was on the Soyuz 18A aborted mission).  He was probably chosen to pilot
the Soyuz T-13 flight because of the difficulty they expected it to have in
docking with the Salyut which was experiencing communications/electrical
problems.  Maybe they want him down to train for a more demanding mission
next year or possibly because he was not reacting properly to the long
duration in space.  Finally of there is the interesting mixture of having
long an short duration people on the same crew.  This means that the Savinykh
can help the newer crew members integrate into the Salyut operation more
quickly.  Does this mean that Salyut 7 will be permently occupied until the
replacement station is brought on line?  Previously the Russians had said
that crew rotations would not take place until the next space station was
occupied.

Mean while I have been getting letters from the L-5 society about the
difficulty in getting NASA's current budget through without cuts.  Oh well.

                                             Glenn Chapman

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #252
*******************

28-Sep-85  0348	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #253    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 253

Today's Topics:
			 shuttle launch schedule
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 27 Sep 1985 13:27 PST
From: Mike Kane <PRODMKT@ACC.ARPA>
Subject: shuttle launch schedule
To: SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS@MIT-MC
Reply-To: PRODMKT@ACC.ARPA


Just a quick note re: the launch scheudules for VAFB

The first flight from VAFB is scheduled for 20 March 1986.
I don't remember exactly what was published on the net, since
I managed to remove that particular file, but it was much later
as I recall. What was the source of that launch schedule?

Mike Kane (prodmkt@acc.arpa)
------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #253
*******************

29-Sep-85  0347	OTA  	SPACE Digest V5 #254    
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts@MIT-MC

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 5 : Issue 254

Today's Topics:
	  Landsat goes to private firm / Upcoming shuttle flight
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 28 Sep 85  1641 PDT
From: Ron Goldman <ARG@SU-AI.ARPA>
Subject: Landsat goes to private firm / Upcoming shuttle flight
To:   space@MIT-MC.ARPA

Government Turning Over Landsat Surveying Satellites To Private Firm
By HARRY F. ROSENTHAL
Associated Press Writer
    WASHINGTON (AP) - The government is turning over its money-losing
Landsat earth-monitoring satellite system to a private company and
throwing in a $250 million subsidy.
    Commerce Secretary Malcolm Baldrige said Friday the federal funding
to Earth Observation Satellite Co., also known as Eosat, will be
phased out over a five-year period.
    ''During the phase-out period, the company will receive a maximum of
$250 million to build and operate two new satellites and to provide a
new ground service and data processing system for the new
spacecraft,'' the department said.
    Landsat photographs, taken from an altitude of more than 400 miles,
have been sold by the government since 1972 to crop forecasters, oil
prospectors, mining companies, forest managers and state and foreign
governments.
    ''The American people have invested more than $1 billion in this
system and we hope to see this investment capitalized into private
sector jobs and opportunities here and overseas,'' Baldrige said in a
statement.
    The government has lost millions of dollars on the operation, and
there has been pressure to turn it over to private enterprise. Two
satellites are operating currently, Landsat 4 and Landsat 5. The
latter is running out of steering propellant and plans are being made
to refuel it, using the space shuttle.
    Eosat will find foreign competition almost as soon as it takes over
the system. A French-based company, Spot Image, plans to launch a
rival satellite in November with the Ariane rocket. Japan also has an
earth-sensing satellite in the works.
    Eosat, a joint venture of RCA and Hughes Aircraft Co., will operate
the two existing satellites.
    In 1983, the administration proposed to turn over Landsat and
government operated weather satellites to private operators. Congress
embraced the Landsat idea, but balked at letting the weather
satellites go.
    Last year, the congressional Office of Technology Assessment warned
that Landsat's international free flow of information might be
jeopardized by a transfer. Eosat's contract states that the data be
marketed on ''a non-discriminatory basis.''
    In March, David Stockman, then director of the White House Office of
Management and Budget, balked at terms being worked out with Eosat
and passed word to Senate Republicans that no subsidy would be
forthcoming.
    Stockman complained that the contract didn't require Eosat to put up
enough of its own money at the outset, and he expressed doubt the
company would find a viable market for its pictures.
    
America's Fourth Space Shuttle Set For Maiden Launch
By HOWARD BENEDICT
AP Aerospace Writer
    CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) - Atlantis, the fourth and possibly last
space shuttle, makes its debut Thursday on a secrecy-shrouded
military mission that reportedly will launch two satellites built to
withstand nuclear assault.
    The Air Force has said Atlantis and its five-man crew will be
launched sometime between 10:20 a.m. and 1:20 p.m. EDT Thursday. The
precise time will be disclosed nine minutes before the planned
liftoff.
    Throughout the flight, even less public information will be
forthcoming from the Pentagon than was the case during the first
all-classified Defense Department mission last January.
    Even the length of the flight is a secret, but the landing will be
announced 24 hours in advance.
    Officials decline to reveal any details about the payload, but the
Federation of American Scientists, citing public sources, reported
last month the shuttle's cargo bay contains two Defense Satellite
Communications System satellites, the advanced model known as DSCS-3.
    DSCS-3 satellites are designed to be jam-proof, have been shielded
against the electromagnetic effects of nuclear explosions and have a
special transponder over which the president could transmit emergency
messages to nuclear forces.
    The Defense Department does not classify DSCS-3 satellites as
secret, but as a matter of principal and precedent it has decided to
place a secrecy label on most military flights of the shuttle.
Officials said this policy will make it more difficult for Soviet spy
ships that regularly operate off Cape Canaveral to monitor the launch
and to learn the nature of any mission.
    Reporters were denied the pre-launch interviews and news conferences
that are normally available with NASA shuttle crews, and they will
not be able to monitor space-to-ground communications.
    On the January flight, the Air Force issued a statement every eight
hours which said everything was going well aboard the shuttle
Discovery. Those will be dropped on the upcoming flight. There will
be announcements, however, if serious trouble develops.
    The commander of the 21st shuttle mission is Air Force Col. Karol
Bobko. The others are Air Force Lt. Col. Ronald J. Grabe, Marine Maj.
David C. Hilmers, Army Lt. Col. Robert C. Stewart and Air Force Maj.
William A. Pailes.
    Atlantis is joining Columbia, Challenger and Discovery in the
nation's fleet of space planes. It is the last one planned, although
some congressmen have been pressing for a fifth vehicle to handle
what they believe will be a heavy launch schedule in the 1990s when
NASA constructs a permanent space station and the Pentagon has
extensive plans for the reusable ships.
    Documents in the public record disclose the DSCS-3 satellite is a
vast improvement over the now-operational DSCS-2 series, that it has
a six-channel communications transponder and measures 81-by-77-inches
with a solar panel wingspan of 38 feet.
    DSCS-3 provides superhigh-frequency communications for secure voice
and high-data-rate transmissions. A specially designed antenna with
electronically steerable beams is an anti-jamming feature, and it is
the first military communications satellite built with materials
designed to protect against the electromagnetic effects of a nuclear
blast that an enemy might aim at it.
    The Pentagon plans to launch four DSCS-3 satellites into stationary
orbits 22,300 miles up to provide global coverage for ships, planes
and ground troops of all services. Troops in the field will be able
to communicate with the satellites through portable antennas only 33
inches in diameter. Two spare satellites also will be placed in
space.
    
AP-NY-09-28-85 1238EDT
***************

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V5 #254
*******************

