Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!chaos.cs.brandeis.edu!adam
From: adam@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (David C. Kaplowitz)
Subject: Re: Critical Design Review
In-Reply-To: nlp@vu-vlsi.Villanova.EDU's message of 12 Feb 90 13:33:45 GMT
Message-ID: <1990Feb13.134204.26213@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu>
Organization: Brandeis University Computer Science Dept
References: <198@vu-vlsi.Villanova.EDU>
Distribution: alt
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 13:42:04 GMT

"To Competence"<smash>
"Uh, Mike, could you put six or seven of them here, maybe I will be
able to finish *one* at least in this rowdy crowd"
TIE
Dave
-- 
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!chaos.cs.brandeis.edu!adam
From: adam@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (David C. Kaplowitz)
Subject: Re: WAR
In-Reply-To: daq@hpfcso.HP.COM's message of 12 Feb 90 23:19:27 GMT
Message-ID: <1990Feb13.135204.26294@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu>
Organization: Brandeis University Computer Science Dept
References: <9060012@hpfcso.HP.COM> <9060021@hpfcso.HP.COM>
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 13:52:04 GMT

Turning in his high backed chair, Dave sends a line to the wartalkers
in the corner,
"At least the race has grown up some, during WWII it was a discrace
not to be in the war (you were a subversive) but those who protested
being in vietnam are somewhat folk heros now.  Who knows, with the
growing awareness of battle, and destruction, maybe the soldiers will
refuse to fight and let the legislating old men claw it out amongst
themselves..."
Almost to himself
"Oops, I promised to stay out of politics and war.  Damn, I wish I had
will power."
TIE
Dave
-- 
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!chaos.cs.brandeis.edu!adam
From: adam@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (David C. Kaplowitz)
Subject: Re: Is anyone going?
In-Reply-To: davidsen@sixhub.UUCP's message of 12 Feb 90 03:43:27 GMT
Message-ID: <1990Feb13.135737.26372@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu>
Organization: Brandeis University Computer Science Dept
References: <479@sixhub.UUCP>
Distribution: alt
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 13:57:37 GMT

From the counter comes a mumble
"I might as well get up and circulate, for I can't help responding to
*everyting* around here.
Wandering over to anon,
"No, but I will be at Arisia next weekend, and perhaps something can
get going there ... "
Startled at the scream of angwish coming from the corner, turns and
walks over.
"Dejavu, I just worked out with someone hevy into the Primal
Scream(tm) therapy group, but it was decided that they were holding
back to much, we only reached about 10 db and I was doing most of it.
Well it's a thought, but might we not be better doing it up on the
roof? "
TIE
Dave
-- 
Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!mailrus!iuvax!pur-ee!pur-phy!maxwell.physics.purdue.edu!sterling
From: sterling@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu (Bruce S. Woodcock)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Jilara e-mail
Keywords: Help!
Message-ID: <3109@pur-phy>
Date: 13 Feb 90 20:40:36 GMT
Sender: news@pur-phy
Lines: 11


     I nedd to know who can and cannot send Jilara e-mail.  Even if you
have been able to in the past, you might not now, so I suggest everyone
try and see if they can get throught.  I`ve been trying jane@fsdcupt.csd.mot.
com and have been unable to get through.  If anyone else out there has a
different address or is able to get through to her, I would appreciate you
dropping me a line and allowing me to send mail to her through you.  I swear,
it`s as though the gods themselves are trying to stop us from communicating!
Or at least, the net-gods.....

                                              -Sir Bruce Sterling-
Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM!jane
From: jane@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM (Jane Beckman x4030)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: War and Mental States
Message-ID: <9002131749.AA09276@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM>
Date: 14 Feb 90 01:49:05 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Lines: 48

Jilara gets up from her table, and folks notice her fingers are 
crossed.  "My charm in hoping that I actually get seen," she explains with 
a small smile.  "I'm averaging about 40% success, lately."  

She starts to pace, her arms folded behind her back, a characteristic 
behavior of hers when she's feeling brooding.  "War is a strange state.  I 
really wonder if the folks who suffer the most are not the combat troops 
but the support troops.  The people who seem to have the most problems, by 
my own experience, are those who were in the medical units, the people who 
were involved with some heavy-duty intelligence stuff that they aren't 
allowed to talk about, and those who are in things like air rescue, stuff 
like that.  Do you know what not being able to talk does to people?  A 
friend of mine became alcoholic because he was involved in stuff that bugged 
him, but couldn't talk about it.  (I only know this because I'd known him 
since he was 16, and I know the art of talking around stuff, because our 
family has had some dealings with security-related stuff.)  A friend of 
mine is still haunted by things he saw in Nam, just cleaning up 
"decommissioned personnel" as he put it.  They were already dead; it was 
picking up the body parts that got to him.  Same for a friend in air 
rescue.  He said he liked the one with Dean Martin's son, because it was 
a "clean" accident: the biggest piece they found was a forearm.  It was 
bisected people that got to him.  And the stress of working in medical 
units---that's a nasty one.  Life and death, constantly.  Worse than 
working in E.R. in the trauma unit.  I've had to deal with a lot of life 
and death situations just in normal life, and I can tell you that it 
really chews your guts up.  

"Take the American Civil War, though...  I reinact with a medical unit, 
and we have to be very careful to soft-pedal stuff, or we'd have the 
public passing out.  Can't get too real.  But we try to remind folks that 
war was pretty hellish.  Not all glorious charges.  Folks talk about 
parts of the movie "Glory" being hard to take.  I can tell you, they 
really soft-pedaled and soft-focused things for that movie.  They didn't 
have a name for it back then, but post-traumatic combat shock was really 
a big factor in Civil War veterans.  And those who didn't get it got a 
little weird, all the same.  Drinking problems, antisocial behavior, 
all sorts of stuff.  The female nurses not only turned substance-abusive 
in a big way, but got into lots of almost self-destructive volunteer 
work, either in medical or social fields."  She stops and shakes her head. 
"The character I portray I patterned off several nurses.  I figure she 
gets majorly alcoholic, and breaks down before the end of the war.  Like 
most of them.  Let's face it---war is hell."  She shakes her head.  "But 
it seems to be a human condition---men forget, and do it again, looking 
for glory.  The cycle goes on.  And probably will forever."  She sighs, 
goes and sits down again, looking moody.
    
  ----Jilara the Exile   jane@fsdcupt.csd.mot.com (the one working currently)
	Idea for new filk-song: "Where oh where has my mail path gone?"
Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!decwrl!sgi!shinobu!odin!sgi.com!scotth
From: scotth@corp.sgi.com (Scott Henry)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Not Easy (was: Re: Current Events)
Message-ID: <SCOTTH.90Feb13133427@harlie.corp.sgi.com>
Date: 13 Feb 90 13:34:27 GMT
References: <13376@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <11995@csli.Stanford.EDU>
	<1990Jan30.172136.13712@granite.cr.bull.com>
	<1990Jan30.202545.18021@granite.cr.bull.com>
	<4138@jarthur.Claremont.EDU>
Sender: news@odin.SGI.COM
Reply-To: scotth@sgi.com (Scott Henry)
Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc, Mountain View, CA
Lines: 16
In-reply-to: estokien@jarthur.Claremont.EDU's message of 4 Feb 90 03:37:19 GMT

In article <4138@jarthur.Claremont.EDU> estokien@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Eric Stokien) writes:

ES> from each other and most of the time it was wonderful.  We have parted
ES> ways and now I have shaved, given my charm a tune-up and started on
ES> the road for looking for a new interest.  This not so easy at a school
ES> like Mudd, but I have confidence in myself and I'm ready to look
ES> again.

Has it gotten any better? When I graduated, only 7 out of 85 were
female...  That's probably what reinforced my belief that friendships are
more important than relationships.

--
  Scott Henry <scotth@sgi.com>	| These are my	| Tardis Express -- when it
  Information Services,		| Opinions only!| absolutely, positively
  Silicon Graphics, Inc		| Whose else?	| has to be there -- yesterday.
Path: mit-eddie!wuarchive!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!dftsrv!fasteddy
From: fasteddy@dftnic.gsfc.nasa.gov (John 'Fast-Eddie' McMahon)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: boskone (a rather odd story...)
Keywords: boskone, spam
Message-ID: <882@dftsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: 14 Feb 90 05:05:53 GMT
Sender: news@dftsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov
Reply-To: fasteddy@dftnic.gsfc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center - Greenbelt, MD, USA
Lines: 103

In article <479@sixhub.UUCP>, davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) writes...
: 
:  Is anyone going to be at Boskone this coming weekend?

"Mike, a glass of JOLT Cola if you please...", I walk up to the line, and look
a bit uncertain.  I explain, "First time for me.  Mister Davidsen touched a
sore spot."  I pause, and sip the foul cola beverage. "Perhaps you have heard
of me, in the Sci-Fi convention circuit they call me 'Fuzz-Face', although I
couldn't tell you why."  Instinctively I reach up and stroke my fuzzy red
beard.  There is a guffaw from the piano area, especially when the person
tickling the ivories reads my username.

"Been going to conventions for the past couple years, since Evecon Four in
Nineteen Eighty-Seven.  Been having a lot of fun, I even got into the game of
helping out with running them.  'member those big pieces of scaffolding that
held up the movie screens at Worldcon ?  I was part of the 'free-fall' crew
that put the dang things up.  I definitely haven't seen it all...  but I have
seen a lot more since I started going to Cons.  Fandom is a friendly second
home to me.  I think I finally decided I was in love during the last Worldcon,
but that is a different story."  

"Despite everything positive, I almost dropped out of Fandom at the beginning."

"I took off from work, piled into Glenn's car and blasted up North.  One or two
stops and a load of hours later and we came to a rest 'neath the streets of
Boston.  It was mid-February, and if you haven't guessed, we were going to
Boskone.  It was the first con I was going to spend an entire weekend at, it
was big, it was popular and I was excited."  I shake my head, and take a
swig from the glass.  A slight burp issues from my lips, "Excuse me."

"The Hotel decided not to honor our guaranteed reservation, so a group of
people destined for a Quad ended up in a Single up on the 26th Floor.  I walked
up a few times, I'm convinced I shortened my life span by some, but I beat the
people waiting for the Elevators."  Sporatic snicker erupts from various spots
in the room. "User hostile was the law of the hotel staff that weekend."

"A recent renovation to the fire alarm system plus a bunch of jerk pranksters
caused an alarm ring every hour.  It was the running convention joke, look...
there goes the alarms again.  One look at the fire department after they
answered the 20th call to the Sheraton and you could see pain in their eyes.  I
could feel for them."

"Everything was pretty crowded, it was SFO for the most part.  I saw the pool,
and I remember falling asleep in the movie room, but overall it wasn't an
interesting weekend.  After three days of seeing very little of the Con because
of the elevators and crowds, I went home."

A man sitting at the edge of the bar chimed in, "SFO ?"

"Standing Fan Only", was my reply.

From one of the back tables someone called, "But you kept going to them ?"

"Well, I decided on the way home that Boskone was just a bad outing.  You have
bad outings in sports, in love, and you can have them at Cons.  The trip home
reminded me of a few good things, and I made a new friend.  I'll avoid
mentioning the cop who pulled us over a mile from my house after an all-night
drive from Boston.", I smiled.

"However, what got my goat was the letter."

Mike knods, "I was wondering when you would get to it..."

"Sometime later, I got a letter from the folks who ran Boskone.  I figured it
was a flyer for next year or something.  I opened it up and started to read it. 
In it, the Boskone people whined a lot about how the fans who had supported
them had ruined Boskone.  They had decided to impose quotas, raise their
prices, kick out most of the Under-18 crowd and cater to a small clique.  They
were planning on a private mailing list for prospective attendees.  Not exactly
friendly, if you ask me."

"I looked at the letter and got very angry.  I had committed a long weekend, a
fairly large amount of money, and some energy to go to their Con.  And for my
trouble, I had a lousy time and was accused of being a lousy participant.  The
word elitism kept popping in my brain, and the thought as to whether or not I
really wanted to continue my involvement with Fandom.  Hell... if Fandom was
like this, I wanted no part of it."  I drain the glass, and toss it up and
down in one hand.

"I gave it one last shot..."

"I went to a Balticon soon after that letter arrived.  Five minutes in the
hotel, and some guy asks me to volunteer to work.  I had a blast that weekend,
and I met a few good people who I now call friends.  Now I help run a few Cons
a year, and I think I am happier that I gave it one more shot."

"To elitism, may the stupidity of it never quash another good feeling..."

With a underhand toss...

<CRASH!>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John "Fast Eddie" McMahon                          FASTEDDY@DFTNIC.GSFC.NASA.GOV
Code 630.4 - Advanced Data Flow Technology Office        SDCDCL::FASTEDDY (SPAN)
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, MD                 (301) 286-2045

Convention Staff/Gopher: Balticon 21, EveCon 5, CastleCon 1,
 Philcon 88 (another long story), EveCon 6, Technicon 6, CastleCon 2, 
 Noreascon III ('free fall' and 'boxboro strike team'), EveCon 7.

Technicon 7: Mar 30-Apr 1,1990 in Blacksburg, Virgina (Send mail for details)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!usc!wuarchive!psuvax1!psuvm!jls139
From: JLS139@psuvm.psu.edu (Abadon)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: War and Mental States
Message-ID: <90044.234713JLS139@PSUVM.BITNET>
Date: 14 Feb 90 04:47:13 GMT
References: <9002131749.AA09276@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM>
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 53


In article <9002131749.AA09276@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM>, jane@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM
(Jane Beckman x4030) says:
>
>                                        [...]  "War is a strange state.  I
>really wonder if the folks who suffer the most are not the combat troops
>but the support troops.  The people who seem to have the most problems, by
>my own experience,                                  [...]   the people who
>were involved with some heavy-duty intelligence stuff that they aren't
>allowed to talk about...^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>     [...]  Do you know what not being able to talk does to people?  A
>friend of mine became alcoholic because he was involved in stuff that bugged
>him, but couldn't talk about it. [...]
>  ----Jilara the Exile   jane@fsdcupt.csd.mot.com (the one working currently)

   Out of a corner materializes the watcher, Abadon, his blue eyes
glowing brightly, pushing back the shadows to reveal n ordinary but
care worn face.
   "Up 'til now I've been content to listen to others, taking in
their thoughts and muling them over, seeing how they fit within my own.
But, Jilara has touched on something I have some personal experience
with and I'd like to share my own thoughts on this topic."
   "Mike, a Mountain Dew please. I may need to wash this one down."
   Adreessing the crowd again, "As I said, I have some personal experience
with this, being recently seperated from active duty with the Army after
seven LONG years with Military Inteligence. Well Jilara, you don't know
how true your words ring to me. One does not have to serve during wartime
to experience a great deal of stress. Not to say that you can compare
the two experiences, because they are totaly different in nature.
There is no denying that combat, with its gore and horror, is no doubt
far worse than anything most of us have known.
    "However, its not so obvious that, even in peace-time, armies can
create casualties ( Veterans in the Psycic Wars ). There is no peace
for the soldier in the Military Inteligence Corps. There is always
a mission, always that pressure to perform - often under the worst of
conditions. And yet there is no way to adequately releive those pressures.
No way to talk out what you have been doing. Keeping secrets becomes a
habit. So, many do turn to alcohol (ironic considering that this could
lead to suspension of access to classified material).
    "I saw, and participated myself, in much heavy drinking of alcohol
and partying. It's appears difficult to serve in the Army and not be
profoundly affected by the experience. Some adjust better than others
but, I would conjecture that there is a higher than normal percentage
of some forms of mental problems amoung all veterans in general than
you would find amoung non-veterans.
   "As for myself, I think that I adjusted reasonably well and am
perhaps a better person for my experiences. However I also bear
a considerable amount of mental scars.
   "Well, here's to veterans and servicemen the world over. May all
your wounds leave scars on the outside and not the inside..."
   Abadon gulps down his 'Dew. Tossing the can in the fireplace with
a loud -CLANK-, he disolves into the darkness once again.
Path: mit-eddie!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!snorkelwacker!bionet!ucselx.sdsu.edu!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!hplabs!hpfcso!daq
From: daq@hpfcso.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Return of the Cynic
Message-ID: <9060022@hpfcso.HP.COM>
Date: 13 Feb 90 04:42:25 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Lines: 17

Cynic enters Callahan's.  His clothes look battered and worn.

He crosses to the bulletin board and posts the following: 

I, along with a few others, was cut off from access to 
Callahans by a local time storm.  We were unable to locate
the bar and news of happenings there were totally 
unavailable.  This lasted for over ten days.  It looks
like things are back to normal, however, so I will be
back interfering in the smooth operation of the bar.

Things still suck.  Things are still wonderful.  I hate
life and I hope I live forever.

Cheers.

Cynic
Path: mit-eddie!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!snorkelwacker!bionet!ucselx.sdsu.edu!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!hplabs!hpfcso!daq
From: daq@hpfcso.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Love
Message-ID: <9060023@hpfcso.HP.COM>
Date: 13 Feb 90 21:11:17 GMT
References: <3073@pur-phy>
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Lines: 47

>     "I am currently working on a book about life:  what it is, what it
>involves, and how I think it should be lived.  Callahans frequently
>adresses the topic of love, and this is the most interesting section of
>my book.  Based on my experience as well as what SHOULD be right if there
>is to be justice, I have formulated the following rules/guidelines for
>love:

>     1.  True Love lasts forever.
>     2.  It is possible for more than one person to love the same person.
>     3.  It is possible for someone to love more than one person.
>     4.  It is possible to love someone who does not love you.

I would suggest that you spend some time classifying love.  There
are different kinds of love, and while your guidelines may fit
some, I doubt that they hold true for eveyone or for all kinds
of love.

>     I would like to hear the opinions of those at callahans on these
>theorems.  Naturally, some people won`t like them, for some (like Ed) have
>been forced by society to accept that the loved someone once, but do not
>any more.  In response to that, I would provide two explanations:

>     1.  You still love the person, but you`re denying it.

How about people who really don't love the person, but are denying
it to maintain their own self-image.

>     2.  You were never in love with that person as he/she TRULY IS, but
>         rather in love with an IDEALIZED IMAGE of what you thought and/or
>         wanted that person to be.

I do not agree that you can stop loving someone that you loved.  
Sure, you may have a warm and fuzzy feeling about them, but
real love is active and anything else is possibly just
cheap sentimentality.

>     I have felt too much pain and too much love over the years to believe
>that these rules could be completely wrong.  In my opinion, they are very
>close to the truth, and they are the some of the principles by which I live
>my life."

These may be your truth and I respect someone who actually has guiding
principles, but I disagree that they are any kind of absolute truth.
                                          > -Sir Bruce Sterling-
----------

Cynic
